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S14.E09: Make It Sell


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Tim Gunn looks terminal. What's wrong with him? If he insisted on doing the show this season, someone should have insisted on putting some makeup on his motlled face.

Here's to him feeling better than he looks. Hope he's okay.

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I love the fact that Kelly has let loose. She is obviously not going to win this thing, so she's making a mark and making herself memorable for her designs while she can. I love her entire attitude about the experience. She's not got an arrogant bone in her body, and she's making the most of it, appreciating the opportunities and relishing being in a whole new world. I hope she's successful with a market somewhere, because I think people like her deserve to succeed, especially when they are also hard workers, as she seems to be.

They need to create a special prize for Kelly.

This. Because Kelly is the only one going through this with joy. As Nina would say, the others in comparison are joyLESS. All the best to this cool young girl.

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I'm 5'6". I wish I were taller and had long legs.

 

5'4"...with legs that are only two inches shorter than my 5'9" sister's and mom's (jerks!)! WTF is that about?! How? I look like I have no sort of torso at all. Just imagine a peplum on that, haha! I think 5'6" sounds glorious! 

Edited by TattleTeeny
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I will out myself as the lone weirdo who loves a peplum. I have a long torso with a wide waist and narrow hips, so anything that delineates a waist and gives me some curve to the hips is my friend.

On the flip side, the wrap dress, what everyone declares to be universally flattering on everybody, always looks like a bathrobe on me.

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On the flip side, the wrap dress, what everyone declares to be universally flattering on everybody, always looks like a bathrobe on me.

 

Ditto. When you have an apple shape like I do, it just looks ridiculous.

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SO glad to be rid of the whiny-voiced and delusional Laurie, who apparently thinks "topless" is a fashion trend!

 

Liked the two "Bombshell" dresses,, Ashley's gold jacket, and....yep, that's it. And that gold jacket would sell a lot more than the skin-tight, looks-good-on-models-only red dress (did no judge notice it was TOO tight and pulled into folds at places?).

Edited by LennieBriscoe
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Ashley has a way of looking like she's crying, even when she isn't.

 

This. She's the type that has so much emotional baggage that you have to tiptoe around to avoid upsetting over the slightest thing.

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SO glad to be rid of the whiny-voiced and delusional Laurie, who apparently thinks "topless" is a fashion trend!

 

Liked the two "Bombshell" dresses,, Ashley's gold jacket, and....yep, that's it. And that gold jacket would sell a lot more than the skin-tight, looks-good-on-models-only red dress (did no judge notice it was TOO tight and pulled into folds at places?).

I think the deciding factor was that the jacket would have cost more to reproduce even without the detailing on the back.
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"Frumpy" would do fine. It's what they mean anyway and doesn't reference age or other "group" stereotype at all. I'd like to see Matronly, Mumsy, Mother-of-theBride, etc ALL replaced with the simple and perfectly descriptive "Frumpy".

 

 

This is how to do peplums. The 1940's were a great style period. Check out the detailing on the peplum if you click the link.

 

http://www.gingermegs-vintage.com/product/womens-vintage-suits/genuine-1940s-suit-embellished-peplum-xs-s/

 

I love the fact that Kelly has let loose. She is obviously not going to win this thing, so she's making a mark and making herself memorable for her designs while she can. I love her entire attitude about the experience. She's not got an arrogant bone in her body, and she's making the most of it, appreciating the opportunities and relishing being in a whole new world. I hope she's successful with a market somewhere, because I think people like her deserve to succeed, especially when they are also hard workers, as she seems to be.

 

They need to create a special prize for Kelly.

They need to bring back Fan Favorite just for Kelly.

So I actually liked Edmond's original fabric and design before Tim came along and poo-poo'd it. I don't think it was necessarily "bombshell", but I think it had potential to be better than that crap he sent down the runway. But that crap won, so what do I know?

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This. She's the type that has so much emotional baggage that you have to tiptoe around to avoid upsetting over the slightest thing.

Exactly.  She just always seems sad, and ready to burst into tears.

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Ashley seems so needy for praise. She always says she is lost and overwhelmed but ends up mostly fine, if not exciting, with her end products. I also feel like she is on the brink of tears an awful lot.

I still think her model is carrying her and wonder about the model assignment this time around. She is getting an unfair advantage if you ask me. The judges always comment on her model.

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5'4"...with legs that are only two inches shorter than my 5'9" sister's and mom's (jerks!)! WTF is that about?! How? I look like I have no sort of torso at all. Just imagine a peplum on that, haha! I think 5'6" sounds glorious! 

 

Genetics are weird. Lol. Eh. I wish I were taller. I think I'm taller than my parents and sister. Or my dad and I are about the same height. He might be an inch or so taller.

 

I agree with some of you here about Tim's skin. I wonder if (beyond rosacea) he's sick. I have to compose my thoughts on this episode, but not one of the designers wow'ed me this week.

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I posted about Tim's skin in Tim's thread, but someone reminded me he has psoriasis.

 

I remember in an interview a few years ago, he mentioned the rosacea and psoriasis and how he can hardly wear any make up anymore because of all of that. Also, Tim's over 60 now and as I'm getting closer to that than I wish, I can confirm our skin does weird shite and doesn't play well with creams, lotions and make up, like it once did.

 

Other than skin, he looks fine to me, so I'm assuming and hoping he's okay.

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Tim has always struck me as someone who craves approval (his dad was apparently a bit of a piece of work, and the idea of someone working directly with J Edgar Hoover and then making their kid feel bad about being gay makes me want to dig him up and slap him). I wonder if getting all this public attention and then having people question him is harder on him than it might be for someone who was a little less conflicted.

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I posted about Tim's skin in Tim's thread, but someone reminded me he has psoriasis.

 

I remember in an interview a few years ago, he mentioned the rosacea and psoriasis and how he can hardly wear any make up anymore because of all of that. Also, Tim's over 60 now and as I'm getting closer to that than I wish, I can confirm our skin does weird shite and doesn't play well with creams, lotions and make up, like it once did.

 

Other than skin, he looks fine to me, so I'm assuming and hoping he's okay.

Took my response to Tim's thread.

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LennieBriscoe, on 04 Oct 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:LennieBriscoe, on 04 Oct 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

...(did no judge notice it was TOO tight and pulled into folds at places?).

 

 

 

 

 

         I think that was intentional.

 

         By the way, I love your username.  Lennie Briscoe (Jerry Orbach - Law & Order) is one of my all-time favorite characters.

Edited by Miss Ruth
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I will out myself as the lone weirdo who loves a peplum.

Nope, not alone, I adore a peplum. I have the classic hourglass figure and would have done well in the forties. I didn't realize until this season and this website how much most people hate them TBH.

Those Michael Kors clips were hilarious, I honestly don't remember him being that funny on the show. And wow, I guess I never watch old episodes, but Heidi and Nina both look so young in a lot of the clips compared to now. Good thing I haven't aged at all ;)

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In one of the Michael Kors clips he mentions short, tight, shiny, etc. as undesirable attributes of clothing. Now that he is no longer a part of the show it seems like these are the only styles that win. With Nina and Heidi constantly talk about the clothing being "sexy." I think that when he left, the class also left and we're now watching a show based on Heidi's personal taste and 1 hour challenges.

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OT but I adore Heidi, and think her personailty is the best thing on the show. But...I generally hate her taste in fashion, especially "dress up" clothes. She does fine when she is shown in jeans, boots, scarves, etc. Cooler weather is a friend to her fashion sense

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Ashley seems so needy for praise. She always says she is lost and overwhelmed but ends up mostly fine, if not exciting, with her end products. I also feel like she is on the brink of tears an awful lot.

I still think her model is carrying her and wonder about the model assignment this time around. She is getting an unfair advantage if you ask me. The judges always comment on her model.

 

Aube (the model) is a definite asset.  She is a stomper and she is gorgeous.  Most of the time the designer paired with her has been in the top three, and there were times when she certainly brought Blake's looks to life.

 

Nope, not alone, I adore a peplum. I have the classic hourglass figure and would have done well in the forties. I didn't realize until this season and this website how much most people hate them TBH.

Those Michael Kors clips were hilarious, I honestly don't remember him being that funny on the show. And wow, I guess I never watch old episodes, but Heidi and Nina both look so young in a lot of the clips compared to now. Good thing I haven't aged at all ;)

 

One day I look forward to seeing the portrait of yourself you have in the attic that is aging horribly :)

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When it comes to peplums, I think that a big part of the difference in why they looked good in the 40s but look like hell today has a lot to do with the fast fashion-ization of clothing. Everything was constructed back in the day. Everything was tailored to fit and the fabrics were frequently better quality, which often meant a more forgiving fabric. Compare the peplums today versus peplums from yesteryear. They look lumpier and saggier and I think a lot of it has to do with the fabric.

 

The other part of it is that I think peplums work best on tall women who are built straight up and down. They add curve so if you already naturally have some curve but not exactly in the right place, you end up looking lumpy and out of proportion. 

 

OT but I adore Heidi, and think her personailty is the best thing on the show. But...I generally hate her taste in fashion, especially "dress up" clothes. She does fine when she is shown in jeans, boots, scarves, etc. Cooler weather is a friend to her fashion sense.

I think Heidi, when following her personal fashion tastes, is tacky as Hell. She's so damn gorgeous that she could wear a paper back stitched together with zip ties and it'd probably at least 60% work. But there's a reason the Heidi Trifecta is short, tight, and sparkly. You don't need a lot of construction or design to make that look good on a model. It was readily apparent in her judging this week. Which dress did she like? Edmond's. And it was short and tight. MK may not have any idea how to design for a woman that isn't a sample size with no hips, butt, or breasts, but he did bring a classic element that balanced Heidi and even Nina, to some extent. This episode really summed up early PR vs. late season PR. Class versus ass, basically.

Edited by BabyVegas
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For those of you who miss MK....

Thanks for the video links. The funny thing for me is my spotty memory of the outfits.  I can barely remember Seth Aaron and Christian S getting these brutal beatdowns  - but on the other hand  my white-hot hate of Wendy Pepper's postal worker outfit is RIGHT there - along with my love of Kara Saun's winning postal worker outfit (not shown).  Also that seventies Toni Tennille haircut Heidi had going there for a season was the pits.

Edited by ratgirlagogo
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Meana seems to have an irrational hatred for Kelly.  Maybe she's too "low-class" for Meana.  What a bitch that woman is.

Eh, I wouldn't go so far as to call her a bitch.  Which is a word I try not to use about women generally.  In any case, Nina has her own ideas about what is good design, and that's her prerogative and her responsibility as a judge.  I don't sense that she has any personal dislike for Kelly.

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ANNNNNDDDD you have 1 day to design.....minus the hair salon,the visit the makeup ,the visit for TH, lunch, AND now you must design a stupid tee shirt and print it out.....How much actual time to they get? I'll just echo everyone else and say FREE THE DESIGNERS!!! Give them a real time day or 2 or even 3. This is why Face Off is sooooo much better....because there forms have to dry and you can't change that they get  3 days...They often say there stuck but after a nights sleep they come back with a solution......and a vastly better show.

Heidi looking at the crop top  (that was to short)  "It's dangerous and I like dangerous" yep---because the rest of the world want everyone to see there bra.....uh huh

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The other part of it is that I think peplums work best on tall women who are built straight up and down. They add curve so if you already naturally have some curve but not exactly in the right place, you end up looking lumpy and out of proportion.

Yep to all this. Peplums work best on slender figures with low waists. They also work better on sleeved jackets/dresses for proportional balance with the added width of the peplum. They DON'T work with the peplum placement at a mid to high waist where they are getting put these days, especially on sleeveless dresses. Anyone with a mid to high waist has exactly the wrong body shape for a tiny peplum. Anyone with a low waist has their waist lost under the peplum. When I was a size 0-2 and straight as a ruler, a classic 40's style (low waisted, fitted, and slightly longer) peplum was my best friend for emphasizing my "willowly" dancer torso while giving me some shape.

 

Part of the reason they worked in the 40's was that everyone was leaner during and following the war years. Peplums filled out women who had lost weight during times of privation

Edited by slothgirl
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Part of the reason they worked in the 40's was that everyone was leaner during and following the war years. Peplums filled out women who had lost weight during times of privation

Also, a lot of 40s fashion had shoulder pads (not as outrageous as the 80s) built into jackets and dresses to keep things in proportion as well.

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Bolding mine

It seemed to me that Candice put her peplum around the hips and not near the waist, and then she had some sort of ridge that made the thing stick out from the material.  My recollection, poor as it is, that most successful peplums look more integrated with the base.. .I recently saw what I thought was a lovely overcoat that had a longer peplum that was particularly graceful when the wearer moved, but the coat was made in such a way that one could not have imagined the coat without the peplum, whereas I could easily imagine the garment Candice made looking better without what she tacked on.  I realize this is a matter of personal taste and someone like me (short and squat) is not going to find a peplum body friendly at the best of times (but I would take a risk with that coat).  I certainly don't need a circle around my hips that looks like a PowerPoint graphic highlighting my figure flaws.

That's pretty much how I remember it. It wasn't a peplum as much as it was a sticky outy ruffle. And that seems to be the more "modern" peplum.

I agree with Baby Vegas re: the superiority of vintage peplums. And while I think the fabric choices did have a lot to do with a successful peplum it also takes a skilled tailor/seamstress to fit one properly to have it not look like a gimmicky, oddly placed ruffle. Like Candace's and other's current attempts.

And after denoncing the peplum I remember owning a fabulous little vintage jacket with a barely there peplum that pinched my waist in and smoothed onto my hips. It was from the '40s. I miss that jacket.

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I think that's the difference between forties peplums and the current kind, which all seem to hit at or just below the waist. If you're a waif that can make you look flowerlike, but everyone else is going to look like Mary Todd Lincoln.

The vintage kind were more like fit and flares. They followed the line of the body until mid-hip and then kept going out from there in a smooth line. And JMO having a long smooth curve going up to your waist flatters a lot of people.

Edited by Julia
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It was kind of awesome to see so much disagreement among the judges.  I wouldn't mind it being like that more often.

 

What a truly hot mess of an episode, especially in terms of judging since they couldn't seem to figure out if they want something that can be mass produced OR innovation because those two things rarely ever happen at once. An innovative idea hits editorial and then eventually is simplified down to something that can be mass produced. That's how the fashion industry works.

 

I am really curious as to how the mass-production process works.  I wish they would show us a video.  Do they do some kind of 3-D scan of what the designer made?  Is it machine-made or do they still use, like sweatshop sewers (to rhyme with "mowers")?

 

Her jacket was cute, but I hate her fabric choices overall and I'm just over her.

[snip]

Kelly, I love you personality-wise. Never change, because Kelly from the deli seems like a totally cool, funny woman, and someone I would want to know. But ugh, her look this week was pretty awful.

[snip]

Go, Edmond...I guess. I know if I had a model's figure I'd want that dress. And he's a very refreshing personality on this show...he just does what he does and you never see him complaining or whining, rather he seems thrilled with the entire experience. Was the dress especially fresh or innovative? Nope. But it'll sell.

 

Agree with these points in particular.  Ashley's jacket was awesome, but the print (which tacky Heidi loved, of course) was so awful--nurse scrubs was an apt simile.  Or maybe '80s sofa?  I don't understand why they would even sell that print, much less why Ashley would buy it.  Kelly would be awesome on a different reality show, like Real World or something.  But her outfit was almost as tacky as that print.  And Edmond is almost as likeable as Kelly, and his dress fit the challenge.  (I always wonder with these: does the representative of the company that's going to mass-produce it get a vote that carries extra weight compared to a normal guest judge?)

 

Aube (the model) is a definite asset.  She is a stomper and she is gorgeous.  

 

What do you mean by "stomper"?

 

It's an interesting point though about the unfairness of getting different models.  Maybe they should shuffle each week.

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What do you mean by "stomper"?

 

It's an interesting point though about the unfairness of getting different models.  Maybe they should shuffle each week.

 

A "stomper" for me is a girl with an amazing runway walk (stomp).  She can sell a design with her amazing walk even though it may not normally be a winning design.  I think they should have the button bag competition for models that they had in the early years of PR.  It was fun, interesting, created a friendly competition and I'm sure it was cheap -- which is what PR loves.

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I think they should have the button bag competition for models that they had in the early years of PR.  It was fun, interesting, created a friendly competition and I'm sure it was cheap -- which is what PR loves.

 

Totally agree they should have the model competition like in the past.  Although I don't recall another season in which one model so overwhelmingly blew away the others.  We all know Aube by name, do we know a single one of the others?  I think there is no question that this had to have been an advantage for Ashley in the last several weeks.

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Although I don't recall another season in which one model so overwhelmingly blew away the others.  We all know Aube by name, do we know a single one of the others?

 

It's been so long, I no longer remember their names (except crazy Morgan, LOL), but I do remember that in the early seasons there were a few models who really seemed to have the right walk and the right attitude and just had a little extra spark of something, and the designers would fight to get that model. In fact, wasn't there a model that one of the designers had and Wendy (?) got a chance to take the model away so the other designer was pissed because that model had been his or hers all along?

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It's been so long, I no longer remember their names (except crazy Morgan, LOL), but I do remember that in the early seasons there were a few models who really seemed to have the right walk and the right attitude and just had a little extra spark of something, and the designers would fight to get that model. In fact, wasn't there a model that one of the designers had and Wendy (?) got a chance to take the model away so the other designer was pissed because that model had been his or hers all along?

I vaguely remember the Pepper model hijack.

I absolutely remember the superior models of the early seasons.

They had a reason to work their stuff. They got a prize too!

Morgan. I think I need to rerere-and-rewatch Season One.

Edited by NewDigs
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Totally agree they should have the model competition like in the past.  Although I don't recall another season in which one model so overwhelmingly blew away the others.  We all know Aube by name, do we know a single one of the others?  I think there is no question that this had to have been an advantage for Ashley in the last several weeks.

Yeah, in the early days there was a model that actually was from ANTM....Ebony maybe?  And I used to love watching the designers "steal" other models and the drama it would create.  There are a few in this season that I think would be sent home pretty quick....I would love to see little miss "I don't wear yellow and my boyfriend dumped me so I can't wear a thong" get the heave ho.

 

I know Aube by name.  And there is one who really looks anorexic and its not cute.....I think the one that Merline had for the lingerie competition.  There is the one that Swapnil has....she is very pretty, but she is no Aube.

 

I remember crazy Morgan!  What was that girl on????

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haha, I only know Aube by name because it's said here but I can't for the life of me picture which one she is. They are all just walking hangers to me. I do miss the button model selection. It was kind of interesting to see all the models in the same black slip, barefeet (or did they all have the same heels, for some reason I think they were barefoot, probably to more easily determine height) and their hair pulled back. Without that I don't remember who has which model. I'm assuming by y'all's talk that Aube is Ashley's model. Really, I remember Ashley's outfit, I've seen that jacket before sans the odd cutout bit in back, and the skirt/top did look like it was made out of those "fashion" scrubs they sell at Walmart. But then, I don't get what's so great about Ashley's designs overall so I probably don't pay much attention.

 

While I hated the furry vest, I get what Kelly was going for and though I could never wear it, I kind of loved her two piece. If I looked like a model I would totally wear that to the gym and think maybe Kelly should do an activewear line.

 

Edmonds dress was stunning. His model I remember because of that dress and how it fit her like a glove. I liked the top front of Swapnil's but not the back at all or that jacket thing and it was kind of too long for something you'd buy online. Most people don't buy evening gowns online I think. Candace, while I usually love her stuff, hers was...weird. I kind of liked the top with it's overwrought lapels/scarves but that skirt! That was terrible! Yes, we've never seen that before Nina, because it should never be seen! Sometimes there is a reason something has never been done. lol

 

I barely remember the rest but I'm glad Laurie is gone. Her voice bugged me and I didn't think she was that great a designer but I still think Merline's was worse, but I like Merline so I'm glad she stayed.

Edited by Mabinogia
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I took the style quiz offered by the sponsor. Girl Next Door, am I? Nope, nope and no way. I think that this designation was due to the fact that I chose flat shoes at every turn; I cannot wear heels. My personal style has some edge, but I guess if you're not in stripper stilts you are a Girl Next Door. Caveat emptor.

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I took the style quiz offered by the sponsor. Girl Next Door, am I? Nope, nope and no way. I think that this designation was due to the fact that I chose flat shoes at every turn; I cannot wear heels. My personal style has some edge, but I guess if you're not in stripper stilts you are a Girl Next Door. Caveat emptor.

Do you really trust any designation of style done by JustFab?  Have you seen the accessory wall?

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I kind of dislike episodes like this, because I feel like the designers can't win.  The challenge is to make something to sell on Just Fab (or whatever retailer it is).  If the designer makes a style that fits into that category and can be easily mass produced, they are told they are not innovative enough.  If they do something innovative, they are told it can't be mass produced.  It's a Catch-22. 

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Do you really trust any designation of style done by justifiable?  Have you seen the accessory wall?

Not all of it is hideous. It's fast fashion, and I enjoy mixing high and low fashion pieces to change up my look. Would not have expected my JustFab result to be diametrically opposed to my actual taste, though. I've read quizzes in my daughters' Seventeen magazine that were more insightful.

,

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I always wonder about designers who choose a distinctive print for a challenge where the winning garment will be mass manufactured. It seems like availability and pricing  of the print would be a factor, but how would they know that at the time of judging?

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I always wonder about designers who choose a distinctive print for a challenge where the winning garment will be mass manufactured. It seems like availability and pricing  of the print would be a factor, but how would they know that at the time of judging?

 

It seems like JustFab would likely find the least expensive, but closest print.  For something like leopard, I would imagine its easy to do.  For Ashley's it might have been a little tougher, I haven't seen anything like that print in any clothing.  And then they limit their budget too so maybe that automatically keeps the cost of the mass produced garment down?

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Way back when, before the show sucked completely, there was at least one challenge where they learned how to price a garment for production. Had someone from the target company (can't remember what it was) work with them on that. Wouldn't it be nice to insert those practical learning opportunities into the show again?

Oh, right. They have one day to "make it work..."

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For Ashley's it might have been a little tougher, I haven't seen anything like that print in any clothing.

 

Take a gander at any store or website that sells nurses uniforms. There's plenty of that fabric to go around.

 

 

 

Way back when, before the show sucked completely, there was at least one challenge where they learned how to price a garment for production. Had someone from the target company (can't remember what it was) work with them on that. Wouldn't it be nice to insert those practical learning opportunities into the show again?

Oh, right. They have one day to "make it work..."

 

When I read this was a "design a product for production" challenge I was hoping the instructional aspect would make a comeback, but no such luck.

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Way back when, before the show sucked completely, there was at least one challenge where they learned how to price a garment for production. Had someone from the target company (can't remember what it was) work with them on that. Wouldn't it be nice to insert those practical learning opportunities into the show again?

Oh, right. They have one day to "make it work..."

 

Tahari. I thought that was really interesting. And I think they did something similar with Sarah Jessica Parker's line.

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Tahari. I thought that was really interesting. And I think they did something similar with Sarah Jessica Parker's line.

Sigh.

Oh to be back in the days of Tahari, DVF et al.

Macy's, Banana Republic... Even the Hershey's store was more fun that what we've seen lately.

From Wiki

"...a fourth judge – typically a fashion designer (Diane von Fürstenberg, Vera Wang, Zac Posen, Austin Scarlett, Francisco Costa, Betsey Johnson, Alberta Ferretti, Roberto Cavalli, Monique Lhuillier, Catherine Malandrino), a supermodel (Iman or Alessandra Ambrosio), a celebrity (Victoria Beckham, Sarah Jessica Parker, Christina Aguilera, Nicky Hilton, Natalie Portman), or a professional from an industry related to the challenge given (Nancy O'Dell, Rachel Zoe, Tiki Barber, Apolo Anton Ohno, Patricia Field, Ivanka Trump). ..."

Sigh.

They've turned this into Make it Hell

Edited by NewDigs
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This season has been SO frustrating! I don't know - maybe we've all been spoiled by some pretty creative designers -- Jay McCarroll, Christian Siriano, Mondo, Gretchen Jones, Anya. But THIS GROUP? Nothing inspiring, nothing creative or even showcasing any particular sewing skill. Pencil skirts, sweetheart necklines and halter tops. And 1,000 excuses for each challenge on why the result ends up - ordinary. And all those muttered "I SO want that jacket" and "she's really rockin that". Pshhh.  Don't even get me started on the fugly fabric choices they all are making. Seriously? Watching this show makes me think, forget being a receptionist - I can be a designer!

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