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Kromm

S16.E01: Finale/Wrap-Up Movie

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Unpopular opinion i know, but i'm glad Gil and Sara got back together. :-)

And i would rather watch paint dry than CSI Cyber.

To me Grissom and Sara had less than zero chemistry. Grissom had more chemistry with Warrick than with Sara. Grissom looks too much like he could be Sara's father. So Sara quit her job to be with Grissom? How sweet, NOT. And they didn't even kiss.

Nice to see Courtney what's her name's husband as the bad guy.

The show sucked, the episode was awful. I never liked Sara as she sucked the life out of every scene she was in.

Of course everyone looked old, the show began fifteen years ago.

Edited by Neurochick
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BTW: put your hand up if you are the ONE person watching who didn't know that Catherine was due to adopt those girls the moment we saw the scene where she learns they have nobody?  Shame on you!  How didn't you know?  I've rarely to never seen TV bullshit telegraphed as clearly as that one!

 

This must be why they dragged Lindsey out from wherever they were hiding her and act like she turned out a fine upstanding gal. Catherine always seemed to be doing a half-ass rushed job of parenting and surely primary caregiver Grandma is dead by now? Can't imply that Catherine jumped on the opportunity because Lindsey was up on the pole these days...

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On the topic of extroverts, as mentioned above, would Catherine even be eligible to lead the lab?  Didn't she blow it up at some point, and there was a question of whether she interfered with a case on behalf of her dad, among numerous other unprofessional things she did over the years.  I never really understood why she was such a boon to the FBI, either, but I guess a lab that would hire Finn would consider putting Willows in charge.

Catherine was head of the lab for a few years during the awful Ray seasons. Then she fucked it up so bad that she actually got demoted at the point where they brought Danson in. With that alone on her record I don't see how she would have any chance of getting the job again.

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I put off watching Quantico to watch this and I am not sure if that was a good judgment call. It was exactly what I thought it would be which is both good and....agh.

They are re airing Quantico right now....

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I used to love this show but I stopped watching shortly after Gil left.  I tuned back in to see the finale. Wow.  That was really awful.

 

An FBI agent can just walk out on her job and jump in the investigation of a crime over which she has no jurisdiction AND has a conflict of interest?  Right.

 

How is it that the woman standing directly next to the first bomber manages to survive . . . for a while . . . long enough to give key evidence and have a dramatic conversation about her daughters and then . . . croak.  No that wasn't cheesy or unrealistic at all.

 

So . . . is anyone else wondering if the guy in the bomb squad suit who was talking to the bomb-lady at the school survived?  Oh wait, see above.  He should be fine.

 

The scene with the bombs in the trunks . . . since when are CSIs qualified to defuse bombs?  And they can do it like a synchronized swimming team?   At least until someone drops her clippers.  I can't even . . . 

 

I could go on but I won't.  I appreciate the effort at fan service but more effort should have been put into plot and dialog.  That was just sad.

Edited by WatchrTina
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I actually thought this was OK... until about halfway. Up until that point, it seemed it really was about "Following the evidence" (contrived and ridiculous at times, but I can accept that!) - except for the fact that a guy who was under arrest was running the investigation, along with the casino owner (although "Conflict of Interest" has never bothered Catherine!). But it descended into  complete mess by the end, with suddenly the CSIs are all bomb disposal experts, not to mention all the sexism (Morgan, who has kept calm when kidnapped is all fingers & thumbs when confronted by a bomb? Sara decides to throw away the job she's been working toward for years to run after Gil? Couldn't they have had Gil throw away his eco-activist ways - it's not like that's a high power career! - for her?). And while I'm never a fan of romantic subplots in CSI, I didn't mind GSR or Lady Heather here (particularly given we get confirmation of what I'd always believed: they never consummated their relationship), but YMMV.

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It was great to see Grissom again and I liked very much that he was protrayed as being dragged back in and had no interest whatsoever in hanging around. Gil was clearly out there living his own introverted life on his little boat and felt no need for the drama that is the LVPD crime lab. The writers got exactly that much correct.

 

Everything else was just an example of why the quality of this show dropped in later years.

 

The plot was ridiculously complicated, the killer was an imbecile without motive and the science was more science fiction than ever. To me, this is just laziness on the part of the writers. If any of them would open a Wikipedia page they would have been able to come up with better ideas that than idiotic flower or painting bees. There's nothing wrong with putting fantastic science in the script but it should be grounded in a real world principal.

 

I'm glad Gil and Sara sailed off into the sunset. I'm even more glad there isn't a season 16 where we have to watch Catherine run the crime lab.

Edited by RustbeltWriter
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So . . . is anyone else wondering if the guy in the bomb squad suit who was talking to the bomb-lady at the school survived?  Oh wait, see above.  He should be fine.

He got short shrift not even given a "poor guy in suit" moment, but that sequence overall read to me as him dying. Bomb suit or not, that explosive was shown pulverizing anything that close.  Bare minimum he would have lost his (uncovered) hands.

 

The over the top what-the-fuckness of a flower where sniffing it takes away all of your willpower, but allows you to self propel yourself around with just a voice in your ear is too silly to even discuss all that deeply. I'm sure there's some real flower this was based on that has some muted version of this effect, but it's more likely to leave someone drooling in a pile than walking around, and I'm sure simply smelling a bloom doesn't do much.

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The plot was silly and full of holes and Grissom/Sara is a relationship that IMO works only on paper and in fanfic.  On the surface, it's sweet; two socially awkward introverts find each other and fall in love.  It really is a nice, hopeful story.  However, Petersen and Fox didn't pull it off IMO.  The relationship felt strange and creepy to me.  They had MINUS zero chemistry and I got a serious father/daughter vibe from them.  No bueno.

 

Also, putting Grissom in about 3893883 layers only made him look heavier.  

 

I used to LOVE CSI, it was must see viewing for me.  I stopped watching the season after Nick got trapped in that box because the following season it was never brought up in depth, and then Warrick got married which made zero sense to me.  

 

As I said before, glad to see Courtney Stodden's husband still working.  BTW, didn't he throw Nick out the window in season 1?

Edited by Neurochick
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the science was more science fiction than ever.

The flower that saps your will was absurd but where I really lost it was the super-special human-dectecto bees.  I could not even follow that nonsense.  Such a pity because bug-related investigation was always a believable plot-point that insect-specialist Gil brought to the table in early seasons.

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I am pretty sure that once I get an answer to this question, I will say "duh!" but I have to ask anyway .... I have seen a few references to "GSW" on this forum, as in 

 

I didn't mind GSR or Lady Heather here (particularly given we get confirmation of what I'd always believed: they never consummated their relationship), but YMMV.

 

and every time I see "GSW" I think "Gun Shot Wound" which is incorrect, obviously - What does "GSW" stand for?

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and every time I see "GSW" I think "Gun Shot Wound" which is incorrect, obviously - What does "GSW" stand for?

Ack. Who knows?

 

Random Acronym Syndrome strikes again.  

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By the way, for those who think this is all over... apparently there's at least the possibility to have MORE than just Ted Danson visit the lone turd left floating in the toilet bowl (that turd would be CSI Cyber and the toilet bowl the whole franchise).

 

'CSI: Cyber' spoiler: Fans may see a possible crossover from 'CSI: Crime Scene Investigation' (no, its not really a spoiler)

 

In his recent interview with Deadline, Zuiker said that it may be possible for the Las Vegas Crime Lab members to guest star on "CSI: Cyber." However, the show's creator said that it might just not be in the "foreseeable future." "And I think that the CSI family is a family, so if there is ever an opportunity on Cyber for any actor who is still living on the show to stop by, that might be a nice treat," Zuiker said.

Edited by Kromm

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The flower that saps your will was absurd but where I really lost it was the super-special human-dectecto bees.  I could not even follow that nonsense.  Such a pity because bug-related investigation was always a believable plot-point that insect-specialist Gil brought to the table in early seasons.

  

The trained bees was really stupid, especially since i know this show has used helicopters and ir cameras to find people in isolated areas before. What was wromg with doing that?

I didn't think the episodes with Ray were all that awful.

I guess the episodes were ok i just hated Ray and how they made this academic guy with no CSI experience a super CSI and centre of tge show really fast. Although in retrospect I watched all of the ray years but dropped out after a year of Finn.

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The trained bees was really stupid, especially since i know this show has used helicopters and ir cameras to find people in isolated areas before. What was wromg with doing that?

 

Helicopters wouldn't be in the air long enough to give Gil and Sara time to fall back in wuv. 

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GSW is Gun Shot Wound. GSR is Gun Shot Residue, a test to see if you've fired a gun, but also used in CSI contexts for "Gil/Sarah Romance"

 

Well, "duh" for me for saying GSW when I meant GSR and Gun Shot Residue.  And a second "duh" for not knowing it was Gil/Sarah Romance, but that second duh is a smaller duh than I thought I would be giving myself.  I haven't seen initials used for relationships on other shows - The Big Bang forum doesn't have LPR or SAR or HBR, so I don't feel like a complete idiot.

 

(Then again, when DB joined and the other characters gave his initials quizzical looks, my mind went to D. B. Cooper - that guy who jumped out of airplane with a bag of cash and was never found, and it took me a while to realize they meant Dead Body - I guess acronyms are not my thing).  

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I've followed CSI over the years, even during the eventual down trend, and while I would have preferred a more explosive finale, this one will do just fine I guess.

 

More explosive? I would have thought that all those bombs provided enough explosive for everyone. 

 

1. Ick, I still hate Grissom and Sara together and I would have been happy for the series ending without that final scene.  I'll entertain myself with thoughts that it was actually Nick that joined Grissom on his boat.

2. I am never watching CSI: Cyber

 

1. Maybe they could have got Eads to come back if that was the script.

2. But they have Ted Danson now! Surely that should be enough to bring you over. It was the only thing the show was missing besides quality writing, anything distinctive or special, and a sense that someone involved had used the internet at some point.

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(Then again, when DB joined and the other characters gave his initials quizzical looks, my mind went to D. B. Cooper - that guy who jumped out of airplane with a bag of cash and was never found, and it took me a while to realize they meant Dead Body - I guess acronyms are not my thing).  

 

D. B.'s real first name is Diebenkorn -- he introduces himself to Grissom using his full first name.  I can understand why he goes by D.B.

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D. B.'s real first name is Diebenkorn

Was that name ever addressed when he joined the show?  It's the name of a slightly famous painter.  Were his parents big fans of the artist?

Edited by WatchrTina

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The DB = Diebenkorn was one of the Big! Reveals! of this finale episode.

 

There's nothing wrong with putting fantastic science in the script but it should be grounded in a real world principle.

I agree, but the writers on this show bailed on this idea pretty early on.  Thus the tough sledding in the last ten or so seasons.

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I thought I remembered an earlier ep which revealed Danson's character's first name was Diebenkorn, because I knew the full first name when he said it to Grissom. And the only place I could've gotten it was from an ep since Danson was on the show (since it was about his character).

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And I think Finn had written it on an envelope she gave him when she first joined the team cause it bugged her that he kept calling her Jules:)

 

Do I remember what I ate for breakfast .....no, but I remember this stuff..LOL

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As per an interview with Anthony Zuiker and a scene that was cut from the finale (for time, I'm assuming): Sara did indeed leave the Lab to run off with Grissom.  (Which is indeed the only way Catherine running the lab would work, going off what Kel Varnsen alluded to upthread.  She couldn't possibly be anybody's first or even second choice, could she, unless D.B. vouched for her?)

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I thought I remembered an earlier ep which revealed Danson's character's first name was Diebenkorn, because I knew the full first name when he said it to Grissom. And the only place I could've gotten it was from an ep since Danson was on the show (since it was about his character).

 

The fact that this name is Deibenkorn has been mentioned a few times, but I can't remember if there was a full explanation for why his parents (offbeat, wandering performer types that they were) chose it.

 

Like so much of the past few seasons, the finale was a "DVR it and watch it when I have spare time and a drink nearby" material. I used to really enjoy watching the forensic procedures, even though they were not as realistic as my husband's criminologist cousin would like. The show I loved back in the day went out with quite a whimper.

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I think that a 6 episode season or something like that would have been better than this.  They could have still brought back Grissom, Catherine and Lady Heather in a better storyline.  It would have also allowed the other characters, including Nick, the final story they deserved. 

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I keep thinking DB stands for Diefenbacker (sp?), but that was Benton Frazier's wolf on Due South (and I knew it had been revealed, I just couldn't remember it).

 

As for the case, it might have been more interesting if they revisited one of the few cases where they didn't solve the case - I'm thinking particularly of the Black Widows who (our team believed) had a scam where one married a guy and the other played his secretary with whom he was having an affair. They couldn't prove which one of them did it so they didn't prosecute. It wouldn't even need to take place in Vegas, but it would provide a more plausible reason for the FBI (Catherine) to get involved (they're serial killers, so it's a national case) and it could take place wherever Gil was, so he gets involved. They could even send the evidence to the Vegas lab "because it's the best" to get the lab rats involved.

 

But nobody asked me!

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I keep thinking DB stands for Diefenbacker (sp?), but that was Benton Frazier's wolf on Due South (and I knew it had been revealed, I just couldn't remember it).

 

As for the case, it might have been more interesting if they revisited one of the few cases where they didn't solve the case - I'm thinking particularly of the Black Widows who (our team believed) had a scam where one married a guy and the other played his secretary with whom he was having an affair. They couldn't prove which one of them did it so they didn't prosecute. It wouldn't even need to take place in Vegas, but it would provide a more plausible reason for the FBI (Catherine) to get involved (they're serial killers, so it's a national case) and it could take place wherever Gil was, so he gets involved. They could even send the evidence to the Vegas lab "because it's the best" to get the lab rats involved.

 

But nobody asked me!

 

Yes it is! I loved that show! 

 

Word. The plot had so many holes in it that it could have been swiss cheese.

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Geez!  So everybody already knew about DB - where was I?   I'm kind of relieved that I didn't remember we'd already learned about Diebenkorn because even though it means my brain is a sieve it also means I didn't watch this show that carefully as it went on.

.

The breaking point episode for me was the one with the hatchet or axe murder weapon that had been buried in a tree untouched for ten years, after boomeranging out of the window of the murder house which also had been untenanted and untouched for all that time.  It's not like that was even the most egregrious one, but somehow that just cheesed it for me.  I did a lot of half-watching after that.

Edited by ratgirlagogo
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Catherine was head of the lab for a few years during the awful Ray seasons. Then she fucked it up so bad that she actually got demoted at the point where they brought Danson in. With that alone on her record I don't see how she would have any chance of getting the job again

I just cannot buy Catherine as head of the lab.  Why would Las Vegas choose one of their local casino OWNERS to head up the crime lab?  Does the CSI Chief have to recuse herself and her entire lab any time there is a crime at her casino?  In the real world, she would NEVER be considered.

 

Anyway, as a casino owner, she could find plenty to keep her busy (and rolling in money) just managing her casino and leaving the crime solving to others.

 

I'm not sorry to see Sara turn down the job either.  In my mind she has already left Grissom (AGAIN) because she is so bored with his quaint obsessions over fish and bugs, but whatever...

 

Nick got a nice resolve to his story last season, as head of his own major city crime lab.

 

Brass has a cushy (and likely very profitable) job with Catherine's security team.  Regular hours likely gives him a better chance to try to help his daughter.

 

I have liked D.B. even better than Grissom, and even though he had to jump to CSI:Cyber to get the job, he is now working for the FBI.  Probably a good thing.

 

Sorry about Finn.  I never understood the dislike for her.  I liked her spunk.

 

Lindsey appearing as a new CSI was a nice touch.  And I do not think that Catherine was "helicopter mothering" when she asked Grissom to give her a few pointers.  A true "helicopter mom" would have been hovering over the daughter's shoulder with advice and instructions at every turn.

 

If I were writing the finale to the show, I would have promoted Greg to Chief of the Lab.  His story would have been a nice completion to the story of this show.  He began as a flaky lab assistant, then progressed to CSI as he matured.  He would have the lab skills as well as the investigative skills to pull off the job.   Instead of assuming that Catherine was returning to take up where she had been before, to see Greg grow from tech to boss would have been a nice touch.

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If I were writing the finale to the show, I would have promoted Greg to Chief of the Lab.  His story would have been a nice completion to the story of this show.  He began as a flaky lab assistant, then progressed to CSI as he matured.  He would have the lab skills as well as the investigative skills to pull off the job.   Instead of assuming that Catherine was returning to take up where she had been before, to see Greg grow from tech to boss would have been a nice touch.

 

I like that idea. Add in Grissom's mentoring of Greg when Grissom was there, Greg's growth as a character to Senior CSI on the team, plus Greg has been writing books about crime history of Vegas so he has a vested interest, and I think he has the goods for the job.

 

Kind of like how 'Homicide: Life on the Street' was bookended by the career of Tim Bayliss -- the first episode was his first day on the job as a homicide detective, and the last episode was his last day on the job.

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I was hoping for a true "Newhart" ending..at the very end they would find the killer to be Ray Langston...he would look at the camera and say..... "I did it because yall wrote me out of this GD final script!"  and say it in a very Samuel L Jackson way with a smirch on his face.

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I was hoping for a true "Newhart" ending..at the very end they would find the killer to be Ray Langston...he would look at the camera and say..... "I did it because yall wrote me out of this GD final script!"  and say it in a very Samuel L Jackson way with a smirch on his face.

Is this supposed to be humor about how some people only think there's one black guy working in Hollywood and Laurence Fishburne and Sam Jackson (and maybe even Morgan Freeman) are all the same guy?

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No, I know they are all different people, I was just giving the type response I would have him do if I was directing...

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I stopped watching for a while when Grissom was written out, but came back because I kept hoping TPTB would relent and he would be back...if not this week, maybe NEXT week?

Agreed that the plot was bordering on moronic, but the only reason I watched was for Gil and Sara to reunite. Mission Accomplished, and...wait for it...I actually cried at the ending.

CSI Cyber?? Only thing that could save it would be DB. Maybe I'll watch season #2.

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The more of these finales I watch, the more it becomes clear that creators get attached to their heroes and want to see their journeys ended fittingly. It's why LOST was all about Jack, and How I Met Your Mother was all about Ted. CSI's hero was clearly Grissom, even though he hadn't been on the show for years, but I wasn't really surprised to see the show focused on Grissom as hero (the killer was obsessed with him after all) and as such, get the ending I think the creator thought he deserved.

 

What was really funny is I stopped watching CSI in about 2005, and all the criticisms hurled at the How I Met Your Mother finale could easily apply here: that you could've stopped watching in the early seasons (I remember Lady Heather very well), and come back for the finale and have it all make sense. The fact is that I hadn't seen the show in 10 years, and yet knew practically everyone there -- including the show's major subplot. I'm not sure if you should be able to do that in a finale, but I was glad in this case the show did. Unlike HIMYM, CSI ran for 15 years and spent a good deal of time at the top. Grissom was really the character around the series rose to popularity, and his years on the show shaped its DNA (sorry). I can see why they wanted to focus the finale on him. In some ways, it was a better tribute to the phenomenon of CSI than the current show CSI (if that makes any sense).

 

I thought the boat was semi-cheesy (though I loved that Grissom and Sara didn't kiss -- that would've been over-the-top). Their love never struck me as a spark-filled romance, but more of a deep emotional love -- and a hug communicated that very well. Though I almost wish they'd gone a little more ambiguous (and left out the ridiculous "Grissom confesses his feelings conveniently on tape so Lindsey can play matchmaker"), and had Grissom's last words about Sara being about the whale who communicates at 52 Hz, when his mate can only hear at 10 to 15 Hz (though it was directed to the bomber, I thought it was clearly about their relationship). That was classic Grissom/Sara, and a perfect encapsulation of their relationship, to me.

 

But overall, I found the finale true to the show I remembered: Grissom-centric, and simultaneously full of spectacle and subtlety. Petersen was such a quiet presence, and such a perfect foil to the glitz and bombast of Las Vegas, and I think the show went with its two strengths there. Grissom became the hero the show needed so it could get the finale it deserved.

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I missed this the first time it came around and only found it when it was replayed at Christmas.  But wow, what a solid plated mess that was.

"Where did she come from?"
"My vagina."
Who wrote this dreck?

Anthony Zuiker.  The guy who was one of the showrunners, and who kept bringing Lady Heather back because ......  he was in love with the idea of a mysterious powerful woman?

 

Lady Heather was a ridiculous enough character on the series but here she reached new heights.  From her taping of clients' sessions to the mind game she played to manipulate Sara, her lack of ethics should have cost her her accreditation long ago.  The amount of gobblety-gook she spun (I can't even elevate it to the level of psychobabble) was beyond laughable,

 

LH:  "You're really worried about [Grissom], aren't you?S

S:   Yes I am.

LH:  {something about refusing to help)

Me:  Bitch.

 

Zuiker's hard-on for Lady Heather managed to spoil not only a number of episodes but the wrap-up movie as well.  And he retconned that she enabled Grissom to fall in love with Sara -- Grissom's relationship with Sara not only predates Lady Heather, it predates the start of CSI.

 

I hate the idea that there are people who actually think that she's a therapist, much less a good one..

 

I thought the boat was semi-cheesy (though I loved that Grissom and Sara didn't kiss -- that would've been over-the-top). Their love never struck me as a spark-filled romance, but more of a deep emotional love -- and a hug communicated that very well. Though I almost wish they'd gone a little more ambiguous (and left out the ridiculous "Grissom confesses his feelings conveniently on tape so Lindsey can play matchmaker"), and had Grissom's last words about Sara being about the whale who communicates at 52 Hz, when his mate can only hear at 10 to 15 Hz (though it was directed to the bomber, I thought it was clearly about their relationship). That was classic Grissom/Sara, and a perfect encapsulation of their relationship, to me.

I knew about the lonely whale, which at least exists as the bees do not, although the way he told that story had me rolling my eyes.

 

But while it may be classic Grissom/Sara, isn't it about time he grew up?  He was the one who left her, who initiated the divorce, and he could have come back any time he wanted to.  But he refuses to come back for Sara and then when he finally figures things out, he can't even go to Sara and tell her, he tells Lady Heather instead. Sara deserves more than that, much more, than to hear him tell that he loves her to a woman who has always treated Sara like trash.

 

And in the end, Sara, who finally by dint of hard work and sticking to her job gets a promotion to run the LV office, leaves it all behind to run away with a guy who can't even tell her straight out how he feels. Maybe Zuiker thought it was romantic but it seems more like a doormat to me. If Grisson really wants Sara, he can A:  tell her to her face and B: make some sacrifices himself to be with her.

 

I was a GSR shipper back in the day, it's one of the things that got me into this show so while I'm a bit glad they're together, I dislike how they did it, from Grissom leaving to her hurt at the divorce to the sucky way he behaved here.  Did Zuiker think we would like having our cake and eating it too (Grissom and Sara together; Catherine running the office)?   It tastes somewhat bitter to me.

 

The wrap-up reminded me that I'm really not going to miss this show.

Edited by statsgirl
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i know it is probably too late, but does anyone know why Morgan got to be the center of so many episodes?  She wasn't even the senior CSI and still knew more than anyone.  Couldn't stand her

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