Caitlyn Jenner: Call Me Caitlyn

[howmanywords]

I saw pictures earlier of Bruce where it looks like he had lip injections.  I absolutely believe its all part of his transitioning and I'm also not shocked any of this will be broadcast on TV in some form.

[beesknees]

I am not shocked that Bruce is transitioning.  Many of the signs have been there for some time?  I have experience with a close male relative of mine who had a full sex change about a decade ago and many of Bruce's subtle yet physical changes over the past few years ring familiar to me.

 

My relative was married for over 40 years with grown children.  When he started "coming out" he was a few years older than Bruce is now.  In regards to my relative the first sign something was, er, "changing" was that he grew his hair out.    Grew it out long.  Very long and flowing, usually sporting a pony tail.  A full 180 as my relative was a Marine his entire life and always sported a buzz cut.

 

Then came the fingernails.  Very long, feminine looking and neutral looking polish.  Then came the extensive tweezing, hair removal, etc.  Smooth, smooth face from a man who usually wore a beard.  Very subtle make-up - mascara, clear lip balm, sometime lip tint.  Adam's apple shaving.  Voice changed/became higher, loose-fitting tops became the norm. 

 

Tongues were wagging very unkindly at that point (by family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, aquaintances in their closely-knit community, etc.).  My relative's wife felt forced to quit their church after 4 decades.  The church she was married in and her children baptized. Then the announcement came. 

 

My relative's wife didn't understand what was going on and the scope of what was happening.  She was extremely religious, naive, and uber sheltered.  She didn't even know what transgenderism was and that people actually had sex change operations.

 

Shortly thereafter the divorce began.  My relative's wife/children obviously devastated beyond devastation.  All had intensive therapy for years to cope.  And some never came to grips with it.

 

My relative had his sex change (full transition) in Colorado?  The process was very physically painful he said.  When the transformation was complete and my relative started his new life (name change and relocation to a neighboring city) I hadn't seen him.  One late night I got onto the computer to check my email.  Opened one of them and up popped a huge picture of Estelle Getty (Bea Arthur's mom Sophia) from the "Golden Girls".

 

I was like, "Okay... what?" (confusion as I'm looking for the joke, the punch line, the caption that corresponded with the picture).  Nothing.  Then it dawned on me.  It was my family member. 

 

I am on the fence about Bruce supposedly televising his transitional journey.  Although I have mixed feelings about it I mean, what is he gonna do?  He's between a rock and a hard place.  He is already famous for being on TV and he will be hounded and chased by media and paps every step of the way no matter what he does or does not do so maybe it makes some sense to try and have at least some control over the whole process and how he's portrayed in/by the media.  There IS no hiding things at this point so why not face all of it head on and put it out there without shame.

 

Bruce is a human being after all and not a freak.  I don't care how the Kardashians spin things - his children must be devastated.  They are (in a sense) losing their father.  The majority of my relative's adult children just couldn't get over it.  It was too difficult.

Edited January 29, 2015 by beesknees

[Fostersmom]

There have been rumors that he's been a cross dresser for years, certainly well before the show (the rumors that is). I think it could be an interesting look at someone transitioning, but I just don't see E! as the place for a real and well made look. 

[Maysie]

 

He's between a rock and a hard place.  He is already famous for being on TV and he will be hounded and chased by media and paps every step of the way no matter what he does or does not do so maybe it makes some sense to try and have at least some control over the whole process and how he's portrayed in/by the media.  There IS no hiding things at this point so why not face all of it head on and put it out there without shame.

 

I think it could be an interesting look at someone transitioning, but I just don't see E! as the place for a real and well made look.

 

I agree with both of these. There has to be some other option than E!. If it's on E!, it's probably going to include the Kardashians (you know Kris will find way to wet her beak on this, and given Kim's hints, I can't imagine her staying away from this because my God the publicity). And while the issues the kids and spouse have to deal with in these situations are real, emotional and confusing, I can only imagine it's going to be all about how Bruce's journey affects the K's if they're involved. And if I felt there was a sincere bone in their collective bodies, I may even allow myself to accept that, but given that everything seems to be scripted for them and all about generating headlines, I dread the possibility of them hijacking this.

 

I think beesknees' excellent post probably illustrates what a tough process it is for anyone and everyone affiliated with the situation. I think for Bruce, it could be even more difficult given his family and the fact that he was a former Olympian -- a very macho image to overcome. So it could be a great, fascinating story and an interesting way for him to come out.

 

But for the love of God, keep it off E! or keep the Kardashians far, far away from it.

[Artsda]

Bruce/Khloe out and about.

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/bruce-jenner-khloe-kardashian-enjoy-father-daughter-time-photos-2015271

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-body/news/bruce-jenner-lets-long-hair-flow-pouts-new-plump-lips-2015291

[ennui]

This story just makes me sad. I'm sad for Bruce, and I'm sad for Brody and Brandon. (I don't care about any of the K's.)

 

I remember it was a huge deal when Bruce was training for the Olympics. Articles and photos in the paper. And then he won the gold, and it was more articles and photos. And then he was on CHiPs (don't laugh!), and acting. It goes on and on. And now this.

 

I understand Bruce wants to be able to show and tell his side. If it's only in the tabloids, he will be a punch line. I wish his show would be on a more dignified channel, though. 

[iwasish]

My sympathy for Bruce can only go so far. I can't see how he can even expect to have his "journey" taken seriously, if he has Kim posing and posturing in full glam make up and hair, wearing of course "Balmain" (spelling) and her fuck me face, sitting on the couch with him.

If he keeps it to him and his bio kids and Jenner relatives, and how they react, maybe it could be an interesting story. But watching Kardashians adjust their hair and cleavage and primp and preen? Not so much.

[howmanywords]

Multiple outlets are reporting that Kris will have no hand in trying to control or edit this special, that Bruce basically shut her out of it and that shes been in denial for years about this and is now freaking out because shes so concerned about how "the brand" will survive once he comes out as a woman. The fact that GLAAD is working hand and hand with him gives me a glimmer of hope it will be handled properly and not in the exploitative way I would expect something Kris would be all over.

[ennui]

I had read in the National Enquirer (what?) that Kris used Bruce's inclinations to keep him in line. That Kris would threaten to expose him if he disobeyed. That if Bruce wanted a divorce, Kris would make sure the whole world found out about his cross-dressing, etc.

 

Which story do we believe?

[beesknees]

I read in several outlets (not that I was particularly googling Bruce Jenner) that although Kris will have no direct "say-so" in the documentary per se, she and some of the other Kardashian members will be a part of the documentary/have TH's to give their two cents on-air?  "Whyyyy?!  Whyyyy!!! (as I rock back and forth in my best Nancy Kerrigan voice.  Olympic-theme going here).  UGGGH.  Obviously E! Entertainment is insisting on Kris and Kim to boost ratings so Bruce is playing ball, probably getting an uber-handsome, pretty penny for agreeing/signing off on the Kardashian contingency. After all E! is the Kardashian network so Bruce knows it's E!'s  sand box to play in.  Bruce's manager/agent will engage and negotiate accordingly.  Hopefully Jenner will do the noble, charitable thing and donate 100% of the proceeds from his docu-series to LBGT causes / outreach programs across the U.S.

 

God knows Bruce doesn't need the money but maybe is thinking if he can impact just one or a just a handful of viewers in living rooms across America, sitting out there  in TV-land it is worth the criticism even though he has to compromise on Kris/Kim???  I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on this.  Having said that, Kris as well as Kim's non-moveable, vapid mug(s) being on-screen for a few more minutes of TV time... (Sigh). Blech and double blech.  No bueno. The fact that Kris (and Kim?  I thought I read that as well) are gonna be a part of the docu-series has taken any serious shred of credibility from this now shit-fest of a televised circus even if GLAAD is involved. Any credibility GLAAD's endorsemnent and/or participation regarding this docu-series has officially flown out the proverbial window. Sorry.  JMHO.  Now I don't even want to watch any of it. I HATE Kim and Kris with the fire of a thousand suns if they are actually on Bruce's show.  I mean effing hell.  

 

Kim and Kris - why do you need to appear on this show just to advance your own fucking selfish agendas?  God damn.  I mean, you freaks are bombarding our TVs and social media incessantly on a daily basis, every single moment of every single waking day as it is,  like a 24/7 annoyingly bad infomercial airing on an endless loop.  Not enough? Seriously?  Fuck me. I want to weep already.  Literally. Id' rather be water-boarded by ISIS or Al-Queda.  Let us breathe for two seconds already (Collectively,  signed the entire North American continent.  Every one of us.  Including Canada).  GTF off my screen already.  WE GET IT.  Nothing is even remotely sacred with this disgusting bunch.  Integrity flew out the window the minute Kim sold her soul to the devil with her "leaked" anal porn video and now Kim is coming out with a coffee-table book of T & A "selfies".  I am adamently against book banning/book burning but I will personally hold a huge, roaring, bon fire rally including pitch forks and lighted torches throwing semi-trucks full of Kim's new book into said blaze complete with marshmallows for roasting, wieners, making s'mores and hot cocoa/hard apple cider drinks for all like-minded attendees.  Freedom of speech be damned in this case.  Crucify me, criticize me, throw me to the wolves.  I'm okay.  Sorry for the hypocrisy but I'll live with the scarlet letter.  I'll take one for the team in this case, believe that.  I'll fall on the proverbial sword without hesitation.  Yikes.

 

I may watch bits and pieces of Bruce's journey here and there if I flick through channels and it happens to be on (I won't lie) but since I've had a taste of the real deal up close and personal in my own life the novelty of it all has worn off on me.  I will most likely just read the forum comments and snark, vent, opine, etc.  This documentary will be a virtual shit-show. If you know one thing know that. If Pimpmanager Kris is in the mix count on it.  At the end of the day I DO admire Bruce's bravery in coming out.  Huge risk and pre-op transgender people are told countless times in their lengthy therapy process - "Prepare to lose everyone - family, life-long and close friends first and foremost.  Very few people are truly supportive when push comes to shove and it seems the closer and more dear people are to you, and the more emotionally intertwined, the faster they drop like flies."  Not to mention neighbors, coworkers, and acquaintances.  In my family's case since my relative was in his 60's when the transition occured 100% of the older males he knew disowned him.  My relative was "dead" to the older gentlemen we knew and forbidden to be brought up in any context, under any circumstances.  No exceptions.

 

With my relative about 85% of the people in his orbit dropped him en masse.  His transgender support group became his new family and lifeline for him to lean on through out daily emotional and physical pain.  One or two core people in my relative's life eventually forgave and reentered the picture after several years (it was a long, painful, arduous (sp?), highly emotional, soul wrenching process to the core for all involved but the majority of people cut him out of their lives for good (that included almost all of the grandkids (spanning all age groups).  This was done via their parents who told the children zero which consequently left the kids hanging, feeling grandpa abandoned them without warning, wondering and asking questions with no answers at all and therefore no closure.  One day grandpa was a regular, important figure in their lives, next day he vanished never to return.  Just like that.  How awful.  Hard to pick up the pieces after that.  My transgender relative accepted the ostrasization with grace, acceptance, and understanding.  His loss and pain was a testament to the unbearable lifelong agony the transgender person has to shoulder his/her entire life.  Unimaginable choice to make indeed for the transitioner but I understand that many people do not share my viewpoint.

 

i don't blame my relative for getting married since he said he felt "different" since age 4 and knew something was profoundly off kilter but could never put his finger on it.  He cross-dressed secretly since 2nd grade, often stealing, stashing and hiding his older sisters clothing items, make-up, etc. but didn't have the maturity (obviously) or insight as to why and for obviously reasons could not confess.  He just knew it felt right and also felt perpetually guilty because he knew it was wrong and experienced  shamed secrecy surrounding it.  When my relative got married in the 1950's was their even any awareness of transgenderism beyond occasional obscure publications and articles in medical books and journals read by various medical professionals?  Instant access to the internet/social awareness via various forms of media was light years away.  What average Joe even knew about transgerism let alone being able to put face to the concept or put a name to it?

 

You got married in the 1950's.  That's what many closeted gays/ transgender people did to be "normal".  That's what you did.  You bit the bullet, lived a lie, and bucked up to society's norms expected of you.  Especially in a profoundly Christian home.  You got married and had a family and dragged your unwitting spouse and children along for the ride.  You suffered in agonizing silence and maybe had a guilt-ridden fling from time to time, scared out of your wits should your secret be exposed thus destroying career, reputation/standing in the community, and home life taht you've spent a lifetime cultivating.

 

My relative said that it wasn't until his late 30's that he even got a clear understanding of the concept of transgenderism.  It was his watershed moment.  Bruce Jenner has always been an all-or-nothing guy.  Go big or go home, no half way for Bruce. He has excelled in many aspects of his life and I have no doubt this journey will be more of the same.  Bruce is not the first famous athlete to come out (i.e. - tennis star Christine Jorgensen paved the way).  Now Bruce is carrying the torch (no pun intended).  I'm sending blessings and healing Bruce's way.  To he and his family both.  They're going to need it.  At least he's got Khloe IMO.  She seems to really love and accept Bruce and seems like she visits him on a regular basis unlike Kim and Kourtney who seem like they have about zero contact with him.  I think Khloe will genuinely back Bruce 100%, stay by his side and support him unconditionally.  No PC or PR solidarity fakery for her.  Hopefully some of Bruce's other family members will do the same.

 

My relative waited until his elderly mother passed before he came out.  She was very religious and he knew just the thought of transitioning from a male to a female would kill her.  She could not understand the concept let alone accept it.  He knew that. Plus his sibling forbade disclosion bar none. Bruce isn't waiting for his elderly mom to pass in order to forge ahead with the sex change so I'm wondering how his mom's going to fair.

 

Gosh fellow posters.  Sorry for the way-too-lengthy heavy lecture.  I didn't mean to go that hard or get so brutal, so heavy.  A thousand pardons to all.  Apologizing for all typos/grammatical errors.  Its now almost morning and I've been up far too late ranting and raving.  3/4 of a bottle of wine later a la Kristin Doute and Brandi Glanville and I'm a raving blow-hard up on my sanctimonious (sp?) soapbox.  Although if I have a soap box I'm imagining its Tide.

Edited January 30, 2015 by beesknees

[howmanywords]

I had read in the National Enquirer (what?) that Kris used Bruce's inclinations to keep him in line. That Kris would threaten to expose him if he disobeyed. That if Bruce wanted a divorce, Kris would make sure the whole world found out about his cross-dressing, etc.

 

Which story do we believe?

Well I'm more incline to believe a site like TMZ or US Weekly before the Enquirer mainly because they have a better track record and so far TMZ has been pretty on point. However, I can see both having a ring of truth.  Its easy to throw threats around for years especially since Bruce seemed to be easily controlled by Kris for so long, she probably figured she could threaten him all she wanted and he would always obey.  Now the harsh reality is the truth is coming out and she cant do a thing about it and in typical Kris form shes worried about herself, money and the brand. 

 

Unpopular opinion here but I dont really care one way or another if Kim, and any of the Kardashian girls and Kris or whoever will be featured in talking heads but I think it might be interesting to hear what they have to say.  Whether you like them or hate them they are his daughters that he pretty much raised and his ex wife respectively and are naturally being impacted by this in some way or another. Kylie and Kendall for all I bitch about them are still young in the grand scheme of things and I cant even comprehend what they have to have been feeling all these years watching their father go through this. If they sit down and give truthful thoughts and feelings, yeah I think it could be interesting.  We get so caught up in the Kardashian famewhore media circus I sometimes forget until I see old family pictures that at one time, many years ago they at least seemed like a relatively,decent tight-knit family and pretty normal.  They all have to have a lot of strong feelings having watch this transition.

[Maysie]

 

Unpopular opinion here but I dont really care one way or another if Kim, and any of the Kardashian girls and Kris or whoever will be featured in talking heads but I think it might be interesting to hear what they have to say.  Whether you like them or hate them they are his daughters that he pretty much raised and his ex wife respectively and are naturally being impacted by this in some way or another. Kylie and Kendall for all I bitch about them are still young in the grand scheme of things and I cant even comprehend what they have to have been feeling all these years watching their father go through this. If they sit down and give truthful thoughts and feelings, yeah I think it could be interesting.  We get so caught up in the Kardashian famewhore media circus I sometimes forget until I see old family pictures that at one time, many years ago they at least seemed like a relatively,decent tight-knit family and pretty normal.  They all have to have a lot of strong feelings having watch this transition.

 

I do agree with this. As much as I dislike most of this family, there's no doubt this has to be tough for them. My issue with Kim and Kris is that I can see them using this to burnish their images. I doubt that we'd hear anything sincere from them, and ultimately that doesn't matter. However, the fact that Kim started throwing hints with her interview re Bruce's personal journey kind of smacks of a set-up. I mean look at how the internet has gone crazy over this the last couple of days (this has come closer to breaking the internet than her stupid Paper cover). He either knew she was going to say that and blessed it to start building the drama or she's so much of an attention whore she'll throw her family under the bus for a headline.

 

The fact is, he could have gone to any outlet and any/all of the family could have participated in it. For myself, I would have much less skepticism watching it on an outlet that doesn't have a financial stake in the family brand. I'm sure 20/20 or hell, even 60 minutes, would have jumped on this because it is newsworthy (if it's really true -- has it been confirmed yet?). A former Olympian transgender is a big damn deal and E! is not his only option.

 

So yeah, it does allow Bruce to tell his story, and I think that could be a good thing, but I think doing it on E! kind of undermines the credibility of everyone involved.

[iwasish]

At least he's got Khloe IMO.  She seems to really love and accept Bruce and seems like she visits him on a regular basis unlike Kim and Kourtney who seem like they have about zero contact with him.  I think Khloe will genuinely back Bruce 100%, stay by his side and support him unconditionally

 

 

Kim will make sure she looks like the devoted daughter for the publicity part of it. I've always had the impression that Kourtney accepted Bruce as Kris's husband. but doesn't see him as a parent. I think ROb Sr and KRis' divorce hit her very hard and she took a long time to come to grips with it. So I don't  believe her seeming indifference to Bruce is because of any changes he is going thru, I think its more than he's no longer Kris's husband and therefore her connection to him is broken. I just don't think there was ever any great love for him on her part. She's always been standoffish too him. Khloe I think will stick by him  

[Artsda]

I think Kourtney did accept Bruce always, just by the way she has him as the grandparent in her kids lives. Slumber parties in Malibu with Mason and just the way Mason's with Bruce shows how natural and real relationship they have. While Kim's wedding hoopla was going on it was Bruce babysitting the kids and being there for Rob. 

 

Kourtney is shown too accept her mother less, not Bruce. She'd always side with Bruce over Kris.

[iwasish]

Kou

 

I think Kourtney did accept Bruce always, just by the way she has him as the grandparent in her kids lives. Slumber parties in Malibu with Mason and just the way Mason's with Bruce shows how natural and real relationship they have. While Kim's wedding hoopla was going on it was Bruce babysitting the kids and being there for Rob. 

 

Kourtney is shown too accept her mother less, not Bruce. She'd always side with Bruce over Kris.

Kourt's talked about how she wouldn't even speak to Bruce for a long time when he first got involved with Kris. Kris talks about how Kourt only wore black clothing for a long time in rebellion against  her relationship with Bruce. They made her go to a therapist over it (the relationship, not the clothing!!). I don't; think she minds her kids having a relationship with Bruce, he seems to be good with them and why deny them someone who loves them. But I don't see a close bond between her and Bruce like there seems to be with Khloe and Bruce. She also probably has much more of a memory of life with Rob Sr and Kris together than Khloe has, therefore a stronger sense of loyalty to Rob Sr, and there's Kris' infidelity  which she kind of flaunted in front of the kids, which could account for her seeming deep resentment of her mother.  OF course she is very low key and emotionless with a lot of people, so maybe I'm reading her wrong.  I think a trip inside Kourtney's head and heart would be very interesting. She's very complex. 

[Artsda]

 

Kourt's talked about how she wouldn't even speak to Bruce for a long time when he first got involved with Kris. Kris talks about how Kourt only wore black clothing for a long time in rebellion against  her relationship with Bruce

She was a moody teenager in the middle of a bad divorce caused by her mother cheating, issues were to be expected.

 

Kourtney then compared to now with Bruce is 180. 

[GaT]

It just occurred to me that if Bruce has really been wanting to be a woman all this time, it must have really been tough for Rob. He's the only son in a house full of females, his father died, & his only other father figure wanted to be a woman. No wonder Rob is screwed up.

[hendersonrocks]

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on this.

 

Amen, beesknees, to this and to everything else you shared. I may despise the Kardashian's as a "brand" and think they're kind of stinky human beings, but I'm here for Bruce. Whatever he chooses to share, however he chooses to share it, on whatever channel--I'm here for Bruce and I admire him for being the person he wants and was born to be. 

[iwasish]

Interesting coincidence I heard this morning... the helicopter news pilot who followed OJ's Bronco in the slo-mo chase years ago and another well known helicopter news pilot both changed genders (male to female) years later. Bruce has been associated with helicopters most of his adult life and is supposedly considering the same change. Kind of interesting.

[Artsda]

People confirmed what TMZ reported.

 

http://www.people.com/article/bruce-jenner-transitioning-woman

 

His changing look has been a much-buzzed-about topic for months, and now PEOPLE has confirmed that Bruce Jenner has been quietly making a very personal change. The former Olympian will soon be living life as female.

"Bruce is transitioning to a woman," says a source close to the family. "He is finally happy and his family is accepting of what he's doing. He's in such a great space. That's why it's the perfect time to do something like this."

 

And according to a different Jenner insider, the 65-year-old reality star is filming his momentous journey, to be shared with viewers on a docu-series this year. "It will air when he is ready to be open about his transition," the source tells PEOPLE. "But he's acting more and more confident and seems very happy."

Jenner's much-documented physical appearance (he's been photographed with longer hair, manicured nails and wearing makeup) has led to much speculation, but according to the insider, Jenner's decision to transition slowly was made in part so that his family would have time to adapt to the change.

 

"He's being very smart about and also respectful about his transition," the insider says. "Instead of completely shocking everyone, his changes have been subtle, and his family has had the chance to slowly get used to his new looks and life."

And his family, including children Cassandra, 34, Burt, 36 (with ex wife Chrystie Crownover ) and sons Brandon, 33 and Brody, 31 (with ex wife Linda Thompson), as well as daughters Kendall, 19 and Kylie, 17 (with Kris Jenner) are adjusting to the new Bruce. "The [kids'] concern seems to be Bruce's happiness, and he acts very pleased with his new life," says the insider.

Admits the family source: "It is an intense thing. Of course not everyone is 100 percent on board. Different people have different reactions. But everybody loves him."

When asked about Jenner on ET, his stepdaughter Kim Kardashian simply said, "I think everyone goes through things in life, and I think that story and what Bruce is going through, I think he'll share whenever the time is right." And when reached by PEOPLE, son Burt would only say his father is "doing awesome."

"The family is really giving this space and time to Bruce. This is his story and they want him to tell the world the way he wants," the source close to the family says. "They really want to empower him to tell his story so that hopefully he can help other people too. That's the goal."

Now it appears that Jenner, finally happy in his own skin, will soon be ready to live life out in the open. "He has come out to those closest to him," says the family source. "He's so happy and excited. He gets to lay down a huge bag of bricks. He's been through a dark period and is coming out on the other side."

Numerous requests for comment from Jenner and his representatives were met with no reply.

[iwasish]

I really wish him well. I think he is a good person. I just hope the Kardashian connection in his docuseries is minimal. Watching Kim preen and pose and try and express some kind of emotion on that botoxed face is more than I can bear.  

[wrestlesflamingos]

Frankly, if this story is treated carefully it could help a lot of people that are struggling with hard to understand feelings. The Kardashian connection doesn't seem toxic here. They bring in an established base and a network of spin. I hope his special helps people. I wish Bruce the best.

[grisgris]

Kris must be beside herself. Bruce has pulled the rug out from under all of them. I can't think of a single thing that the rest of the Klan has done or could possibly do to eclipse this! I think it's the perfect (unintentional) payback. Bruce, you go GIRL!!

[wrestlesflamingos]

All of that may be true but incidental. Bruce isn't doing this to spite anyone. 

[grisgris]

I know that this is Bruce's personal choice and I applaud him. What I meant was that a former Olympian hero undergoing a gender reassignment (in general) is going to far overshadow (in the public and media) anything the Kardashians have done or will do in the future. Unfortunately, due to association, any attention on Bruce will most likely mention them in some form. Therefore, by default, that detracts attention from the K's.

[RealityCowgirl]

I stupidly scrolled to the bottom of the People story and read the comments. I knew better but did it anyway. Good lord.

Public figure status, Kardashian connection aside, pretty much guarantees not being able to have the privacy he deserves and needs. Sharing his story, his way, helps give him some small bit of control.

But good heavens. E!?

Edited January 31, 2015 by RealityCowgirl

[escape]

I know that this is Bruce's personal choice and I applaud him. What I meant was that a former Olympian hero undergoing a gender reassignment (in general) is going to far overshadow (in the public and media) anything the Kardashians have done or will do in the future. Unfortunately, due to association, any attention on Bruce will most likely mention them in some form. Therefore, by default, that detracts attention from the K's.

So what?  The family has a huge following - and if their connections can open up the dialogue and hopefully help others - that's only a good thing.

[Fostersmom]

Not that it matters, but now I do wonder how much of his bad plastic surgery over the years was just "bad" and how much was on purpose for a specific desired look. Either way, seriously Bruce, get yourself a BETTER DOCTOR! Yours kinda sucks.

 

Irregardless of the vapid Kardashian connection, Kris really should be part of his story. They were married for 20some years, have 2 kids together and raised a family. Like her or not, she is part of the story and his transition does effect her too. I do oddly hope she really was just an uber bitch to him all those years because it's her natural personality and not because she thought she could as a blackmail technique to keep his secret. There's been rumors for years every once in a while that he was caught in her clothes… did she leak those herself to punish him when he did something she didn't like? I'm sure she learned all about the power of the tabloids during the OJ trial and how to use them to her best advantage. A well timed whisper might have kept him under her thumb for a while out of fear, especially even as recently as 5-10 years ago. 

[iwasish]

Not that it matters, but now I do wonder how much of his bad plastic surgery over the years was just "bad" and how much was on purpose for a specific desired look. Either way, seriously Bruce, get yourself a BETTER DOCTOR! Yours kinda sucks.

 

Irregardless of the vapid Kardashian connection, Kris really should be part of his story. They were married for 20some years, have 2 kids together and raised a family. Like her or not, she is part of the story and his transition does effect her too. I do oddly hope she really was just an uber bitch to him all those years because it's her natural personality and not because she thought she could as a blackmail technique to keep his secret. There's been rumors for years every once in a while that he was caught in her clothes… did she leak those herself to punish him when he did something she didn't like? I'm sure she learned all about the power of the tabloids during the OJ trial and how to use them to her best advantage. A well timed whisper might have kept him under her thumb for a while out of fear, especially even as recently as 5-10 years ago. 

They are divorced now. I think her part should be minimal. Perhaps a few comments or remarks from her are appropriate but having her there with a big old joker grin and blathering about him being her best friend isn't necessary, nor do I think it's true. I can't believe she could be even remotely happy about it.  It blows apart the whole fantasy she's created about their family. I think she would have vastly preferred Bruce move out to Malibu and continue with the fiction she tried to pass off on the public, that they were happily married and just needed "space"..

Despite the attention the Kardashians can bring, IMO any good it does is far outweighed by the famewhore, shallow, self centered lives they lead (in particular, Kris and Kim, the others to a slightly lesser degree). I can't imagine anything Kim could say that would sound remotely sincere coming from that frozen, robotic manner of speaking, all the while she tries to get a glimpse of how she looks in the reflection of the camera lens.  

[GaT]

So what?  The family has a huge following - and if their connections can open up the dialogue and hopefully help others - that's only a good thing.

I think they already tried that with Kim's "racism" storyline & nobody took it seriously. You can't have a career based on making duck lips & taking selfies & expect people to take you seriously enough to open a dialogue about anything.

[twilightzone]

iwasish, on 31 Jan 2015 - said:

if he has Kim posing and posturing in full glam make up and hair, wearing of course "Balmain" (spelling) and her fuck me face, sitting on the couch with him.

Watching Kim preen and pose and try and express some kind of emotion on that botoxed face is more than I can bear. 

I can't imagine anything Kim could say that would sound remotely sincere coming from that frozen, robotic manner of speaking, all the while she tries to get a glimpse of how she looks in the reflection of the camera lens.

I am confused as to why Kim keeps being brought to back to the conversation?  Personally, I could care less about her.  Because constant chatter (good or bad) about Kim is what has kept her in the tabloids.

[OnceSane]

I think they already tried that with Kim's "racism" storyline & nobody took it seriously. You can't have a career based on making duck lips & taking selfies & expect people to take you seriously enough to open a dialogue about anything.

IDK if Kim's racism story line is a fair comparison since it seems to have been just for the show/attention. Bruce isn't doing this for more hits to his Instagram account.

[twilightzone]

They are divorced now. I think her part should be minimal. Perhaps a few comments or remarks from her are appropriate but having her there with a big old joker grin and blathering about him being her best friend isn't necessary, nor do I think it's true. I can't believe she could be even remotely happy about it.  It blows apart the whole fantasy she's created about their family. I think she would have vastly preferred Bruce move out to Malibu and continue with the fiction she tried to pass off on the public, that they were happily married and just needed "space"..

Despite the attention the Kardashians can bring, IMO any good it does is far outweighed by the famewhore, shallow, self centered lives they lead (in particular, Kris and Kim, the others to a slightly lesser degree).

Whether people like Kris or not (and I don't), she is a big part of the story.  They were married for over 20 yrs, and have 2 biological children together.   And I would say her response is more common than not - of families who have gone through this very difficult transition.  Transgenderism is one of the last taboos - and there is a lot of public stigma - from denial to embarrassment to fear to shame.

There is also a general ignorance to this issue - to see comments that Kris Jenner emasculated Bruce Jenner and turned him into a transgender is beyond ridiculous.

Edited January 31, 2015 by thenightfog

[GaT]

IDK if Kim's racism story line is a fair comparison since it seems to have been just for the show/attention. Bruce isn't doing this for more hits to his Instagram account.

No, but he's still doing it in a reality show. He could have done this without cameras following him around, & he's still going to have Kardashians associated with it.

[OnceSane]

No, but he's still doing it in a reality show. He could have done this without cameras following him around, & he's still going to have Kardashians associated with it.

Isn't it going o be a docu-series? I see that as different than our usual reality show fare. Also, I'd expect the Kardashians to have some sort of role as they have been a part of his family for many years.

[Fostersmom]

No, but he's still doing it in a reality show. He could have done this without cameras following him around, & he's still going to have Kardashians associated with it.

 

Short of living in a cave, there is no way cameras wouldn't be following him if he is transitioning. Hell they already are. He's a well known man who has becoming more feminine over the last couple years, there's new pictures of him with long hair, pierced ears, painted nails and softer more feminine clothes already out there along with the tongue wagging stories. He's a marque Olympic champion, been on TV for years now, and part of a media family. At least this way, he can maybe control the way it's going to be presented and do so in his own way. The still pictures are all over the place, at least with TV cameras, he gets to tell the story and not reporters relying on "friends" who talk to People, Us Weekly, and 15 other magazines who pretty much make up the story. 

[iwasish]

Bruce has contributed to the castrated hubby aspect of his portrayal on the show. From his banishment to a small area of the garage to enjoy his helicopter, To Kris' s control of his credit card, her over ruling him with regard to the younger girls use of make up and revealing clothing, the fit she threw over a putting green and the numerous comments over the series by all the kids about how his balls are in Kris's possession. IMO, the fact that he finally has made the decision to cut ties with Kris and move forward with this literally life altering process and his choice to share it with the world, is something that deserves to be presented in a forum a couple levels above storylines about smelly vagina contests, camel toe and un housebroken dogs.

Sorry but I don't know if I can take it as seriously as I should, ...in the back of my mind I'll keep envisioning the final shot being Bruce and the rest of the women all glammedup and posing with pouted lips and exposed cleavage. I doubt that is what Bruce intends but it's the only image any reference to this family conjures up.

His own family is talking to People magazine and making comments to the press about this journey. The two members of the family who crave publicity the most. Hard to believe they really have Bruce's best interest at heart.

Edited January 31, 2015 by iwasish

[Crucial]

If this is what Bruce wants I am happy for him.  I haven't heard him say it just "sources".  When he does or if he does good for him them.  Be who you are.  I hope, hope, hope, anything Kim or Kris is left out of ANY story he tells.  I think both of these bloodsuckers will use it for there own good.  The rest of the K clan I think will want him to be happy and if it's a documentary/reality I would watch if they were there - but NOT Kim or Kris (these two are disgusting fame whores who do things to better themselves not anyone else).

[twilightzone]

Bruce has contributed to the castrated hubby aspect of his portrayal on the show.

Sorry but I don't know if I can take it as seriously as I should, ...in the back of my mind I'll keep envisioning the final shot being Bruce and the rest of the women all glammedup and posing with pouted lips and exposed cleavage. I doubt that is what Bruce intends but it's the only image any reference to this family conjures up.

This is the kind of uneducated comment that contributes to the stereotypes and stigma and shame around transgenderism.  Bruce was born this way.  It may have taken him some time to figure it out and brave enough to accept it, but Kris did not turn him into a transgender.

Edited February 1, 2015 by thenightfog

[iwasish]

I'm not saying Kris turned Bruce into anything, my point I was trying to make was, that Bruce by virtue of his appearance on this show, and the way he has been portrayed on the show, is the reason that this particular show is not the forum for him IMO, to chronicle his journey.

I can't begin to imagine what he has gone through before coming to this decision. I give him all the credit in the world and wish him peace and happiness in the future. I just wish/hope it wI'll be aired on/in a more serious and dignified place than a superficial entertainment channel and the pages of celebrity gossip magazines .

[escape]

I'm not saying Kris turned Bruce into anything, my point I was trying to make was, that Bruce by virtue of his appearance on this show, and the way he has been portrayed on the show, is the reason that this particular show is not the forum for him IMO, to chronicle his journey.

I can't begin to imagine what he has gone through before coming to this decision. I give him all the credit in the world and wish him peace and happiness in the future. I just wish/hope it wI'll be aired on/in a more serious and dignified place than a superficial entertainment channel and the pages of celebrity gossip magazines .

As noted, it's going to be a documentary, which is separate from KUWTK.  And why not on E?  That's where the Bruce Jenner today has most of his audience.   And if they are able to reach out to some of those fans to have a better understanding, it's a win IMO.

[iwasish]

I just don't see the E! Channel documentary as being much more than an E! Hollywood True Story. I think the subject deserves a more serious and dignified platform. do you really think E! won't have every commercial break filled with ads for Fashion Police, The Soup, and endless promos for the upcoming season of KUWTK with Khloe asking Kim if she boned Kanye in the bathroom? It just seems to cheapen what is a very serious subject. Bruce deserves better.

[escape]

Sorry but I don't know if I can take it as seriously as I should, ...in the back of my mind I'll keep envisioning the final shot being Bruce and the rest of the women all glammedup and posing with pouted lips and exposed cleavage. I doubt that is what Bruce intends but it's the only image any reference to this family conjures up.

iwasish:  And Bruce deserves much better than this, which IMO certainly cheapens a very serious subject.

 

Aside from E, Bruce's story likely will have a forum on other platforms. But for now, E is probably the forum that Bruce is most comfortable with.  E also has a young demographic and if his story can help those isolated teens in small towns who are struggling, it's a win.

Edited February 1, 2015 by escape

[The Ascension]

I'm here for Bruce. I wonder what name he will go by? I wish him nothing but happiness and peace and I hope the family deals with it okay. Kendall & Kylie are still so young.  Seriously, no wonder the Kardashians won't go away...they certainly are not boring ever. A lot of teens watch E so if any of them are struggling or identifying with Bruce, hopefully this will help.

 

What is going to really suck is the commentary in articles, interviews, social media, and the hate groups that are going to speak out against Bruce, and then the K/J clan will defend Bruce and I will have to side with them (the k's). GAH! 

[howmanywords]

Aside from E, Bruce's story likely will have a forum on other platforms. But for now, E is probably the forum that Bruce is most comfortable with.  E also has a young demographic and if his story can help those isolated teens in small towns who are struggling, it's a win.

I was thinking the same thing, that Bruce is probably pretty comfortable with E. Surely hes worked with enough producers, directors, etc from the network so maybe HE chose E for that reason where he can work with on this special people he is familiar with. Frankly I dont think the network matters or that it will cheapen the subject. This is a major and really serious thing hes going through and I think he just might end up helping a lot of people. FWIW I've watched a lot of well done specials on E that werent at all tabloid focused.  Even the True Hollywood Stories, some were REALLY well done and informative.

[GaT]

I can't believe I'm going to type this, but I kind of feel sorry for Kris. I obviously know nothing about their relationship, but now I wonder how much of the way she behaved to Bruce when they were married, & the whole "look at me, I'm as sexy as my daughters" thing she does is a result of being married to a man who wanted to be a woman? We don't know how long Bruce has felt this way, or if he prefers women, men, or both, & we don't know how much Kris actually knew, but at some point, it had to start affecting her self esteem & their marriage. 

 

Another thought I had, poor Bruce is really doing this late in life, he's 67 years old. I don't know how long changing genders takes, but he's going to be close if not at 70 years old by the time it's done. Even if he lives to be 100, he will have spent most of his life as the (to him) wrong sex. Also, he may find that being a 70 years old woman is not what he thought it would be.

[wrestlesflamingos]

There's many different ways that Bruce can live as a woman. Some he can do today, some would take time. Its a very individual choice without a 'common' practice.

Edited February 1, 2015 by wrestlesflamingos
removed word "choose"

[ennui]

I feel a little sorry for Kris, too. She has to be looking back on their marriage and wondering how she missed all the signs. There are men who enjoy cross-dressing but have no intention of gender reassignment. It's a big step. It has to affect her self-esteem in some way.

 

"I think a trip inside Kourtney's head and heart would be very interesting. She's very complex."

 

I think Kourtney is kind of cold and boring. You might be disappointed.

[peaceknit]

I don't feel sorry in the least for Kris. She was married to Bruce for many years, and undoubtedly knew about his predilection for a long time. Some women will sell out in a marriage to keep the money flowing, and I believe she did just that. When she started getting her own money, especially via the show, she had no use for him, IMO. They didn't really seem to have much in common interest-wise, except for those girls, and as Kris has stated before, it was Bruce who wanted them anyway.

[iwasish]

I feel a little sorry for Kris, too. She has to be looking back on their marriage and wondering how she missed all the signs. There are men who enjoy cross-dressing but have no intention of gender reassignment. It's a big step. It has to affect her self-esteem in some way.

"I think a trip inside Kourtney's head and heart would be very interesting. She's very complex."

I think Kourtney is kind of cold and boring. You might be disappointed.

It's the idea that she seems so cold and boring that makes me think there's more there. It's not often but there are moments with Scott that show a very different side of her. I find it hard to believe Scott would waste all these years on a cold boring woman.