S06.E12: Face Off

[langway]

I noticed that too and hated it!!! Rude. Poor little Issac seems like a loving, delightful child I hope he makes it through his childhood with some of that intact.

It really bugged me because Jo had just said in the scene beforehand that he wants to spend time with his kid and they DID invite him down for dinner. It's probably irrational, but it just bugged the shit out me, lol. Isaac is such a sweet kid. When Kail showed him his cake, he was so adorable about it "I love it, I love it!" and he sounded sincere and so excited about a cake that had "him" on it. I love that kid.

[DangerousMinds]

Given that Miranda knew the MTV cameras were filming the meeting between Leah and Corey, I doubt there was any reason to believe Leah was going to seduce Corey. And in the end, she needs to simply trust her husband, no matter how Leah behaves.

[MissMel]

I'm familiar with preschool graduations but a "moving on" sign would not have gotten my attention. I would have just assumed one of the teachers were "moving on" to the elementary school to teach and that there would be a celebration for the teacher's last day at the preschool. Not a ceremony for the kids.

[guilfoyleatpp]

I had nursery school graduation in 1974.  I don't think it's uncommon. 

 

I have also been wondering if the child support thing is a set up.  Because why wouldn't he want to go to court?  In reality, it's the best thing to do for both of them. If he doesn't have a full time job or reportable income, it can only benefit him.  But if he doesn't have a job, how did he buy that house? I'm just doing a refinance and I have to come up with w-2s, pay stubs, proof of financial reserves, closing costs, etc. It don't make no sense.

[lidarose9]

Nathan wanted a restraining order until Jenelle calmed down? What was he afraid she'd do? Blow up his truck? No. Her criminal offense was calling him while he was at the gym. They use the police and the courts to referee their immature, narcissistic fighting. There should be some kind of penalty when people do this. They abuse the system. 

[Joe Jitsu913]

Nathan wanted a restraining order until Jenelle calmed down? What was he afraid she'd do? Blow up his truck? No. Her criminal offense was calling him while he was at the gym. They use the police and the courts to referee their immature, narcissistic fighting. There should be some kind of penalty when people do this. They abuse the system.

I used to live next to a Nathan and Jenelle . The lady was bipolar and they were both drug addicts. Every time they'd have a disagreement, the cops would show up. It was like a game to them. I had to call the police on them once and the dispatch already knew who I was talking about before I even said who I was calling about. That's Nathan and Jenelle. They're THAT couple. I guarantee Jenelle and Nathan know the cops by name.

[MrsSmartyPants]

I used to live next to a Nathan and Jenelle . The lady was bipolar and they were both drug addicts. Every time they'd have a disagreement, the cops would show up. It was like a game to them. I had to call the police on them once and the dispatch already knew who I was talking about before I even said who I was calling about. That's Nathan and Jenelle. They're THAT couple. I guarantee Jenelle and Nathan know the cops by name.

 

 

UHHHH you can't just drop this nugget here and then go on about your business like nothing happened :P  

 

Like how often did they fight?  Did you ever see them fight outside?  WHERE was the roll?  Was GymTime on a set schedule?  

[Joe Jitsu913]

UHHHH you can't just drop this nugget here and then go on about your business like nothing happened :P

Like how often did they fight? Did you ever see them fight outside? WHERE was the roll? Was GymTime on a set schedule?

I mean I used to live next to a couple that was very similar to Nathan and Jenelle. Both psycho, neither had real jobs, both fought constantly. It was very nerve-racking to live next to this trash. I have much pity for Janelle's neighbors.

[MrsSmartyPants]

Jo/Kail - I think that he was saying he didn't want to get a job and meant immediately.  Based on the show's timeline, Isaac had just graduated/moved on so the summer 6weeks at Jo's must have been coming up - he probably figured he'd look for a job AFTER Isaac's visit.  I mean, in the grand scheme of things?  A few weeks without a job isn't THAT big of a deal.  He obviously has income coming from SOMEWHERE - savings, shady dealings, parents, lottery, whatever because he's not only JUST closed on a house but is current on support to Kail and didn't even blink when she said she needed more.  

 

THE ONLY THING HE ASKED FOR: hard numbers.

 

I don't understand WHY it matters if Jo is working or not - as long as he's not asking for a REDUCTION (and as far as I've seen, he hasn't) and is current on his child support, IT IS NOT ANY OF KAIL'S BUSINESS.  It reminds me of when she went school shopping with her friend and was jealous that her friend's parents were paying for the supplies.  If Jo doesn't want to work?  He doesn't have to.

 

 

Corey/Miranda - I understand Miranda wanting to be there.  She wants to support her husband and like it or not, any decisions made between Corey & Crackhead WILL affect Miranda (either her finances and/or her household).  Leah is like Kail in this regard: NO ONE ELSE CAN BE THERE (for exchanges) until *I* need my new dickses there to "support" me (I'm pregnant and can't drive 6 hours). 

 

 

Chelsea - I'm happy for her.  The baby talk between her and Cole is annoying as shit ... to anyone who's not IN their relationship - but they enjoy it and it REALLY isn't hurting anyone.     My husband and I each tell each other we stink as a term of affection.  (I will say to him when he's working overnight "I can't sleep ... it smells too nice without you here" and he knows that means "I miss you" - it's like our little secret language - but anyone who heard us?  Would think I hated him.  

[lezlers]

Kail doesn't work, Leah doesn't work, I very seriously doubt Javi works, jenelle doesn't work, Nathan doesn't work, vee doesn't work, Miranda no longer works, Adam says he is a personal trainer. But the moms also claim their job is the show. Maybe Jo says his job is the show. Maybe he saved his money. I don't see him blowing it on new cars, tattoos, scarves, lip injections, two houses, redecorating, multiple vacations, concerts, tuition for two schools. Didn't they claim at one point have enrolled in school. Guess he quit. Jo may have saved and had a very good deposit on his home. But that is a whole lot of people who also do not have a job.

 

The problem is, Jo is getting pissed that Kail wants child support.  I'd have no issue with Jo not working if he didn't appear to want sympathy and a break from child support.  You can't have your cake and eat it too, Jo.  He was definitely talking like he had no intention of getting a job.  If he had actually been looking for one, he would've said so.  Instead he got all uppity with his "I COULD go out and get a 9 to 5 job or work some retail job (like a shlub is what I imagine he said to himself afterwards.)  Jo was definitely showing his ass in that scene.  I'm surprised people are still cutting him breaks.  He came off as an entitled jerk.  

Edited September 26, 2015 by lezlers

[gotta watch]

I don't blame Jo for not knowing what a "Moving Up" ceremony is. As a fan of the show The Jeffersons, I think we can all agree the graduation should be called "Movin' On Up." Then we'd ALL know what that means.

I thought it was so immature for Leah to find out that Miranda is there, and just drive away. I thought she said something earlier about "trying to go back to a healthy co-parenting relationship with Corey" and "learning how to speak up for herself." Well if I were her life coach, I would've said "Leah get in there and say firmly but respectfully "Miranda I appreciate your taking care of the girlses while I was NOT IN REHAB but would you mind please waiting in the car while I speak to Corey for a few minutes?"

[BitterApple]

Regarding Jo and the job, on the one hand it's understandable if he wanted to wait until after his summer time with Isaac to start working but on the other he seemed to be shitting a brick over finances and he's got another kid on the way. He really doesn't have the luxury of taking a casual approach to employment.

[DangerousMinds]

The problem is, Jo is getting pissed that Kail wants child support.  I'd have no issue with Jo not working if he didn't appear to want sympathy and a break from child support.  You can't have your cake and eat it too, Jo.  He was definitely talking like he had no intention of getting a job.  If he had actually been looking for one, he would've said so.  Instead he got all uppity with his "I COULD go out and get a 9 to 5 job or work some retail job (like a shlub is what I imagine he said to himself afterwards.)  Jo was definitely showing his ass in that scene.  I'm surprised people are still cutting him breaks.  He came off as an entitled jerk.

Jo wants "hard numbers." Then he had be ready to provide the hard numbers regarding his income to the courts.

[GreatKazu]

It really bugged me because Jo had just said in the scene beforehand that he wants to spend time with his kid and they DID invite him down for dinner. It's probably irrational, but it just bugged the shit out me, lol. Isaac is such a sweet kid. When Kail showed him his cake, he was so adorable about it "I love it, I love it!" and he sounded sincere and so excited about a cake that had "him" on it. I love that kid.

As a few posters noted, that scene was all kinds of crazy with the editing. For all we know, Isaac probably ate by that point when he was shown at the table. He likely went to the table to get his dad's attention or just to hang out at the table.  Vee and Jo likely stopped their original conversation as Isaac joined them to eat. Since it was throwaway footage (to MTV) they edited out that portion and that is likely where Jo and Vee began their conversation which ended up being dwindled down to a few minutes with chop-chop inserts of different things being said.

 

The problem is, Jo is getting pissed that Kail wants child support.  I'd have no issue with Jo not working if he didn't appear to want sympathy and a break from child support.  You can't have your cake and eat it too, Jo.  He was definitely talking like he had no intention of getting a job.

I never saw Jo pissed at Kail when she asked for more support. What I witnessed was, he became pissed when she used legal threats towards him after she accused him of purposely missing the graduation ceremony.  One has nothing to do with the other. Apples and oranges there. 

 

Jo sat with her at a park and asked her to show him numbers. Not sure what is so hard about that. If one wants money, then be prepared to show what it is you need. Kail couldn't even give those numbers. How hard was it to say, "Jo, I need an additional $350 per month to cover Isaac's tuition"?  He needs to know what it is she is asking for.  Any parent would need to know what the other parent needs. Jo is not a mind-reader. He is already paying her monthly per her comment about the CS not making a dent.

 

 

If he had actually been looking for one, he would've said so.  Instead he got all uppity with his "I COULD go out and get a 9 to 5 job or work some retail job (like a shlub is what I imagine he said to himself afterwards.)  Jo was definitely showing his ass in that scene.  I'm surprised people are still cutting him breaks.  He came off as an entitled jerk.

Well, Kail has her moments, too. lol  She was being a jerk to Jo by accusing him of missing the graduation, something that really seemed to get under her skin. She just couldn't accept the fact he was not aware of the ceremony. He seemed to be frustrated to me. I imagine I would have been the same way if I was being accused and not being heard. His comment about going back in time seemed to indicate he was done with her tone towards him, especially on camera. Being sarcastic towards her was obviously not the way to go about handling the situation, but I don't see how Kail expects to talk to people that way and not expect to get the reaction that she does.  She gets angry, she hits people. Jo gets angry, he gets sarcastic. Unless Jo has missed payments of CS and is in arrears, it is not Kail's business to tell Jo to get a job IMO. I think that set him off even more and that is why he gave her that pissy attitude about how he could get a job. I don't believe at all it was anything in the literal sense.

 

 lezlers hope you are on the road to feeling better. :-)

 

This was a pretty busy season. Unlike Teen Mom OG which was boring as hell. I just read a new season has been approved.

Edited September 26, 2015 by GreatKazu

[lezlers]

I agree that Kail was acting like an idiot at the park by refusing to give any actual numbers.  That was lame.  But Jo seemed PETRIFIED of his child support being raised, even a little.  If you're that scared of even a minor increase in child support your ass needs to go out and get a JOB, Jo.  I'm guessing he's got some money saved and very strictly allocated to cover his expenses so he doesn't have to get a job.  That's dumb.  Shit comes up, especially when you've got one kid and another on the way and your partner isn't working (how much do you want to bet Vee will try to get benefits now that she's pregnant since she and Jo aren't working and aren't married?) 

 

I used to LOVE Jo and despise Kail and Javi and although I'm still not a Kail or Javi fan, Jo is very rapidly falling out of grace with me.  He's acting really irresponsibly. There is no good reason for him not to be working right now, none.  He already said he's not asking for more time with Issac so he's only seeing him every other weekend.  It's insulting to everyone's intelligence to claim he's not getting a job because it would cut into his time with Issac.  That's a load of bull.  I have little respect for people who choose not to work when they don't have any responsibilities that would require them to stay home.  That's just pure, unadulterated laziness. Kail has two small children and is a full time student.  I don't blame her for side eyeing Jo's lazy ass. 

[GreatKazu]

 

But Jo seemed PETRIFIED of his child support being raised, even a little.

He was petrified at the idea (not sure where it came from) of paying "thousands of dollars". He wasn't worried about an increase in support.

 

 

how much do you want to bet Vee will try to get benefits now that she's pregnant since she and Jo aren't working and aren't married?)

She wouldn't be able to simply because she is having Jo's child. Social services would count his income, MTV money included, regardless if they are not married. Social services counts any income that has been received within a certain time frame. I believe it is six months.  Jo and Vee live together. If she were to go to social services and try to scam them by saying she doesn't live there, welfare would open up a child support case because they would want their money returned for having to dole out benefits. So, that is very unlikely to happen. I am failing to see that Jo and Vee are in dire straits.

Edited September 26, 2015 by GreatKazu

[MaddyMaeboxerbabe]

He was petrified at the idea (not sure where it came from) of paying "thousands of dollars". He wasn't worried about an increase in support.

She wouldn't be able to simply because she is having Jo's child. Social services would count his income, MTV money included, regardless if they are not married. Social services counts any income that has been received within a certain time frame. I believe it is six months. Jo and Vee live together. If she were to go to social services and try to scam them by saying she doesn't live there, welfare would open up a child support case because they would want their money returned for having to dole out benefits. So, that is very unlikely to happen. I am failing to see that Jo and Vee are in dire straits.

In my state only the mother's income counts if unmarried. Many of my adult kids' friends (mid 20s) are not getting married so they can get free medical for their pregnancies.

[GreatKazu]

In my state only the mother's income counts if unmarried. Many of my adult kids' friends (mid 20s) are not getting married so they can get free medical for their pregnancies.

I was citing other services. I should have made my post clear. Medical is a different matter.

[Snarky McSnarky]

*Sigh*

 

I wish PBS or perhaps HBO would do a series that follows 4 or 5 teen mothers over several years -- WITHOUT paying them hundreds of thousands of dollars and promoting them as pop culture figures.  Young girls would benefit from seeing what happens down the road as women struggle to raise/support children while simultaneously trying to educate themselves, pay rent, and put food on the table in the real world.

 

Next season of TM2 will be more of the same bullshit.  Entertaining at times but hardly educational. 

[missy jo]

Is it my imagination or is Cole very close to starting to talk in the same baby voice like Chelsea?

 

 

"New Forever Daddy" reached full baby voice a few episodes ago. I hope his guy friends see this and mock him mercilessly until he starts speaking like an adult. Can't remember it verbatim, but he even threw an incomplete sentence in there. Something akin to "me like cookies." Ugh, just stop.

 

I just take issue with her making Cole the center of her and Aubree's universe when they havent been together that long. I really hope they work out or as several posters have said, Aubree will be in for a world of emotional hurt if her mom and Cole ever break up.

 

 

Chelsea's very wrong for convincing Aubree he'll be there "forever." Hope so, but it's not statistically likely at their age.

 

Plus, Chelsea and Cole were baby-talking about how he now plays a disciplinarian role for Aubree. The fuck?! He's not her parent. He's just mommy's intellectually-challenged friend who won't go home.

 

It's clear Aubree loves her father dearly despite Chelsea's parental alienation, which will increase exponentially now Cole's in the picture. I think Aubree wrote on the Father's Day paper that Adam's job is "the gym" because he's getting certified as a personal trainer. Either way, he is her bio-Dad for life, so I'm rooting for him. Not because of him, but because of Aubree. Adam's only in his early 20s, so there's still time to get it together and become a reliable father. Many of us are entirely different people by age 40 than we were in our 20s.  

 

why on earth do these people feel compelled to run off and have more kids? Kudos to Chelsea for knowing one is more than enough right now.

 

 

Hope it stays that way, but a pregnancy would seal the deal for that "new family" she's concocting.

[Isthisok]

I really wish they had broken the fourth wall this season. Why can we see what a POS Farrah is, but we can't see the truth about Possum Princess?

Corey's dad is still a GILF. Karl is still a miserable bag of suck. Chelsea and Cole are the new Carla & Daniel. Is there a bet on whether or not Possum Princess will be pregnant with her fourth baby next season? Will Jenelle be engaged to the new guy? Will they fall in love over their mutual lack of guardianship for their children? Or will her feelings for him drop? Will Nathan find stakeholders and investors for whatever the fuck it is he does to earn a living? For someone with PTSD, he sure doesn't seem to mind living with a human grenade.

[lezlers]

Nathan wanted a restraining order until Jenelle calmed down? What was he afraid she'd do? Blow up his truck? No. Her criminal offense was calling him while he was at the gym. They use the police and the courts to referee their immature, narcissistic fighting. There should be some kind of penalty when people do this. They abuse the system. 

I'm a public defender and I see this shit All. The. TIME.   It makes me insane.  My favorite is when the protected party initiates contact over a period of time but the minute the other person doesn't say/do what they want, they're on the phone with the prosecutor, complaining that the no contact order has been violated.  

 

Special place in hell, I tell you...

[BitterApple]

One of the things that kind of upsets me about Chelsea is the way she's acting like she and Aubree had shitty lives before the Second Coming of Jesus arrived on the scene and officially made them a Real Family. Even though it took her forever for to get her shit together, Chelsea finished beauty school, got a job and purchased a really nice house. Cole was living in a rental with a roommate. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not like he's some white knight who saved them from a life of cheap motels and Ramen noodles.

[DangerousMinds]

In my state only the mother's income counts if unmarried. Many of my adult kids' friends (mid 20s) are not getting married so they can get free medical for their pregnancies.

God forbid they wait until they can provide their own insurance for their children before planning a pregnancy. SMDH.

[lezlers]

And thanks for the well wishes, Kazu.  :D

[FozzyBear]

I've been thinking about the Aubree/Adam thing (I have the flue) and while I really don't like the way Chelsea is handling it, she is in a tough spot. Aubree is old enough to put things together and start to make her own judgments about things and she knows. She knows her dad is selfish and mostly pays attention to her when there's something in it for him. We're hearing her articulate this on the show and while my first instinct might be to try and sell something along the lines on "Your dad loves you the best way he knows how.", bottom line is he sucks. The Fathers Day thing sent me over the edge. Not that I think people have to celebrate these things in some Instagram approved way, but damn! It was your weekend and Fathers Day and you made other plans? That is some Grade A bullshit, that is! And the Fathers Day thing doesn't actually bother me more than it just being his weekend. You barley have your kid and you plan a trip when you do? If he was a decent father and something unavoidable came up, that would be one thing, but he just doesn't care. He didn't even care enough to tell Chelsea or Aubree. He just took off and let his parents deal with it. Aubree is an after thought to him...and I kind of feel like she should be able to express that. I don't know, it's just a sucky situation for Aubree.

[GreatKazu]

Kail pulled that shit with the courts when she made that false DV claim. She used the courts to keep Jo away for at least two weeks from his child. Any bitch who would do such a thing as to claim DV abuse and keep a child away from the other parent, deserves a good ass-kicking, at least.

 

Why is it these girls think that unless there is a guy around, they are incomplete and not a real family? These girls have themselves and their children. That is a family right there. Bringing someone into your life should be an addition to that family, not filling a void.

[whydoiwatchtv]

Jo did say something like "How can I take care of my son, if I can't take care of myself?" so it doesn't sound like he has much to fall back on. Then he doesn't want a job with a new house and a baby on the way. It is just bizarre and weird.

[GreatKazu]

Jo did say something like "How can I take care of my son, if I can't take care of myself?" so it doesn't sound like he has much to fall back on. Then he doesn't want a job with a new house and a baby on the way. It is just bizarre and weird.

Probably because he has it in his head that Kail wants "thousands". If he is thinking he has to pay this enormous amount of money, he is feeling that is dipping into his budget.  If he got that out of his head, went to an attorney and was shown the possible calculation, he would see that what Kail wants doesn't equate what she can get.

[BitterApple]

In fairness to Jo, he asked Kail to come up with a number and she balked. I think he's afraid of getting blindsided in court if Kail asks for some absurd, unrealistic amount that he's not capable of paying. Kail for her part should have had a list of expenses along with bills and receipts so Jo could take a look at the paper and have an idea of what she expected. She can't just say "you need to pay me more money" and not give specifics.

[FozzyBear]

Neither Kalie or Joe communicate well with eachother. Joe can't or won't clearly explain what is going on with his finances. He hasn't said if he is over extended and needs time to catch up or if he has some sort of plan or even what his income is. Kali can't communicate that coming up with a number isn't the point. She thinks his income is drastically higher and the cs should be recalculated. This is why they should go to court. They don't trust each other and they don't communicate with each other.

[lidarose9]

There is a way a woman kisses her husband when she wants to make absolutely sure there is not the least, tiniest hint of sex in the kiss. That is how Karl kissed Javi there at the end when they were congratulating themselves on not getting a divorce. 

[GreatKazu]

Neither Kalie or Joe communicate well with eachother. Joe can't or won't clearly explain what is going on with his finances. He hasn't said if he is over extended and needs time to catch up or if he has some sort of plan or even what his income is. Kali can't communicate that coming up with a number isn't the point. She thinks his income is drastically higher and the cs should be recalculated. This is why they should go to court. They don't trust each other and they don't communicate with each other.

To be fair, we don't know if Jo has explained his situation to Kail. Javi sat there and told Kail not to believe him and not fall for what he says. Surely that means Jo must have listed to Kail what is going on with him and his finances. If nothing has been said by Jo, I would think Javi would have said something along the lines of "You should find out what he has going on financially on his end." I can't believe Javi wouldn't have thought of such a thing to say to Kail since he has been on her ass almost the entire season. I do agree the communication is sorely lacking between these two, mostly because Kail doesn't want to hear what is being said or reacts so negatively to what he tells her. We saw Jo react to Kail in such a calm manner for most of the season, including when she balked at him moving near her. He laughed it off and just took it in stride. Not Kail. She shitted in her pants.

 

In fairness to Jo, he asked Kail to come up with a number and she balked. I think he's afraid of getting blindsided in court if Kail asks for some absurd, unrealistic amount that he's not capable of paying. Kail for her part should have had a list of expenses along with bills and receipts so Jo could take a look at the paper and have an idea of what she expected. She can't just say "you need to pay me more money" and not give specifics.

Jo won't get blindsided in court because the figures will be calculated prior to ever going to court. They will go to mediation first. Figures will be discussed and documents will be reviewed to see what each party is bringing in as far as income and a list of what their expenses will also be viewed. Kail cannot just ask for any amount. A figure is calculated and she, through her attorney, would likely request that she would need a bit more from Jo to cover XYZ expenses. In the end, the judge will decide if what is being requested is fair and reasonable.

 

Agree with your comment that Jo did ask for an amount from Kail and she nearly had a heart attack over it. She expected him to say, "Sure. Is $1,000 enough?"

 

 

There is a way a woman kisses her husband when she wants to make absolutely sure there is not the least, tiniest hint of sex in the kiss. That is how Karl kissed Javi there at the end when they were congratulating themselves on not getting a divorce.

Oh, you mean the way she kisses Javi every single time? The girl is not having it. She is no Leah. She could do without having any affection from Javi.

Edited September 27, 2015 by GreatKazu

[cheatincheetos]

 she still drops her with someone so she can get her hair done, her nails done, go out to Roni's (is that the only restaurant in town?) to eat

There was also the Fifth Quarter steakhouse buffet on Clendenin St where she famously tried to be The Jeremy Whisperer with her "pssht! pssht" hand signals, scolded and shamed him for working so many hours to fund her, and  he (inexplicably!) walked away.

Edited September 27, 2015 by cheatincheetos

[Mkay]

The Jo/Kail storyline just makes my head spin. I see a lot of comments about how Kail is this and that but there is one thing she cannot do and that is make Jo say things. I like to look at these people on their own behaviours, not against each others behaviours. So that is exactly why I am baffled by what the hell Jo is doing right now and what is up with this whole child support thing.

Jo is no pushover and when it comes to money he will be the first one to say (as he has done before) that he feels he is paying enough. He will also be the first one to say that he shouldn't be paying for expensive stuff Kail decides on. So since Jo is no fool in that sense. I am wondering WHY he agreed to increase childsupport outside of court if he has no job. Why on earth he thinks he will have to pay 3000 a month if he doesn't have a job and does go through the court. Why does he trust dealing with Kail more then the courts. What is it that they both seem to know but we don't. If Kail is really sure of it that he has no job and no money, then there is no way that girl will want to go to court since she knows she will lose and get a decrease and maybe even less time with her son. Since she is still willing to do that I wonder why. She also said in the conversation with Jo that he has to pay more on top of what he already ows? I don't know what that is about but Jo didn't counteract that. I just have no idea what is going on with them. The fact that he has no job doesn't matter if he pays his childsupport but why is Jo acting so weird about it..'no I dont want a 9 to 5 since I want to spend time with Isaac'..Huh?? I also think Jo is incredibly stressed out. I don't know what is up but maybe some things will be clarified next week. Javi needs to butt out though. I feel Kail and Jo are much more prone to get to something if he just shuts up. He is just egging her on, just when she kind of seems to do the smart thing for once and takes a pause and doesn't react immediately he comes in with the manipulation games.

 

I will have to say this. Their kids seem to be best behaved of all of the kids. Aubree is just a smarter version of Chelsea in the making so cute now..not so cute later.

I think that maybe he has a large savings account that his family continues to put money into.  Kail knows this from when they were together and probably figures it still happens.  She knows if it gets increased his family will increase their support to help out.  JMO

[Mkay]

If Jo were 60, I'd buy this logic. But it wasn't terribly long ago that he was a kid, and this "celebrate everything" approach has been happening for quite some time. I grew up in Pennsylvania, maybe an hour away from Jo and Kail, and I'm about eight or nine years older. I very distinctly remember having a graduation ceremony when I was in preschool. I thought it was absurd (I was very advanced for my age when it came to cynicism), but lots of other kids were incredibly excited. I have a rather vivid memory of a little girl tearing around the playground, telling younger kids, "Do you know why I'm wearing this dress? Because today's the day we graduate!"

 

I don't think that the ceremony would have been totally out of Jo's familiarity.

 

I was incredibly impressed with Jenelle admitting that Jace would be in foster care if it weren't for Barbara. That was a rare moment of self-reflection for her, and it gives me just the slightest bit of hope for her.

 

I wish Chelsea would cool it on the "new family" stuff, but she is adorable with Cole.

 

Oh, Leah. The fact that having a schedule was a revelation speaks volumes about what life has been like for those poor kids.

The school I went to had a kindergarten graduation, 8th grade graduation, and 12th grade graduation.  Many yrs ago.

 

My daughter goes to a different school than I did.  But it's only 10 miles away.  They only have one graduation......Your Senior Yr.  It's different every wear you go.

[Mkay]

Kail pulled that shit with the courts when she made that false DV claim. She used the courts to keep Jo away for at least two weeks from his child. Any bitch who would do such a thing as to claim DV abuse and keep a child away from the other parent, deserves a good ass-kicking, at least.

 

Why is it these girls think that unless there is a guy around, they are incomplete and not a real family? These girls have themselves and their children. That is a family right there. Bringing someone into your life should be an addition to that family, not filling a void.

Don't forget she also went ahead and moved before she got permission from court.  She does what she wants.  

[missy jo]

Aubree is old enough to put things together and start to make her own judgments about things and she knows. She knows her dad is selfish and mostly pays attention to her when there's something in it for him. We're hearing her articulate this on the show

 

 

I have seen it differently. In past seasons and first half of this one, we've always seen her running up and hugging her Dad, so happy to see him. This season we were shown a graduation where she seemed to run past him, etc. First time I've seen her not run right to him.

 

What changed, IMO, is that Chelsea finally hooked a guy and has started the parental alienation, coaching sessions and leading questions. She asks Aubree "yes or no" questions about how her father, and how Cole is better, and how Adam sucks. Aubree knows she makes her mom happy when she agrees. I'm sure the family courts see this happen constantly.

[beesknees]

GreatKazu, on 26 Sept 2015 - 6:23 PM, said:GreatKazu, on 26 Sept 2015 - 6:23 PM, said:GreatKazu, on 26 Sept 2015 - 6:23 PM, said:GreatKazu, on 26 Sept 2015 - 6:23 PM, said:GreatKazu, on 26 Sept 2015 - 6:23 PM, said:GreatKazu, on 26 Sept 2015 - 6:23 PM, said:GreatKazu, on 26 Sept 2015 - 6:23 PM, said:

He was petrified at the idea (not sure where it came from) of paying "thousands of dollars". He wasn't worried about an increase in support.

 

She wouldn't be able to simply because she is having Jo's child. Social services would count his income, MTV money included, regardless if they are not married. Social services counts any income that has been received within a certain time frame. I believe it is six months.  Jo and Vee live together. If she were to go to social services and try to scam them by saying she doesn't live there, welfare would open up a child support case because they would want their money returned for having to dole out benefits. So, that is very unlikely to happen. I am failing to see that Jo and Vee are in dire straits.

 

In my state Vee would be entitled to full, free medical benefits for herself and the baby while she lived with Jo.  Jo's income would not be factored in and only be factored in if he was court ordered to pay child support for the new baby.  Once paternity was determined the State would go after Jo for child support even if Vee didn't initiate it.  Jo's monthly child support payments would be counted as monthly income for Vee and in order for Vee to continue to receive benefits she would be subject to a review every six months as to eligibility. 

 

In my state Vee would also be able to get food stamps and WIC (extra nutritional food products - dairy, peanut butter, juice, etc.) for herself and the baby.  Vee may live with Jo but the state is not going to be counting much in the way of Jo's income at this point.  In my state Vee would be able to admit she lived with Jo (and say that, i.e. - Jo pays the rent because she has no money). 

 

Vee would not be able to collect rental assistance because Jo lives with her.  She would have to live alone in order to receive that.  However, Vee would be able to say that Jo has asked her to pay some utilities in lieu of rent (i.e. - the heating bill during winter months and she could receive a large break on that monthly heating bill (Nov - April) while they cohabitated and she remains single.  Vee would also be able to collect food stamps in my state while residing with Jo as long as she says she and Jo do not share food, keep their food separate, cook separately, etc. like roommates do.

 

Of course once Vee admits that Jo is the father he will be court ordered to pay child support (initiated via the State if Vee doesn't request) and monthly benefits could go down for Vee a bit as long as she stays unemployed and doesn't work.  As long as Jo and Vee don't legally marry and Vee stays unemployed she will continue to receive most of her medical/dental, food, monthly heating bill benefits.  Jo may be required to cough up medical insurance for the baby but the baby will always have free insurance through the State (T-19) as its secondary, back-up insurance.  Whatever Jo's insurance didn't cover for the baby would be picked up by the T-19 insurance (State insurance).

 

Where I live plenty of women live with their baby daddies and the State knows it.  I have a few acquaintances that receive a plethora of free services via the State. As long as they don't get married ;)   Even with paternity confirmed.  The women don't even have to lie or scam.  They just have to make sure they keep up on their "reviews" every six months so benefits don't get interrupted.

Edited September 27, 2015 by beesknees

[beesknees]

lezlers, on 26 Sept 2015 - 4:09 PM, said:

The problem is, Jo is getting pissed that Kail wants child support.  I'd have no issue with Jo not working if he didn't appear to want sympathy and a break from child support.  You can't have your cake and eat it too, Jo.  He was definitely talking like he had no intention of getting a job.  If he had actually been looking for one, he would've said so.  Instead he got all uppity with his "I COULD go out and get a 9 to 5 job or work some retail job (like a shlub is what I imagine he said to himself afterwards.)  Jo was definitely showing his ass in that scene.  I'm surprised people are still cutting him breaks.  He came off as an entitled jerk.  

 

I don't think that Jo was getting pissed that Kail wants child support.  Jo was getting upset that Kail wants MORE child support on top of the court ordered monthly child support that she is already receiving. 

[Spiderella2]

I had nursery school graduation in 1974.  I don't think it's uncommon. 

 

I have also been wondering if the child support thing is a set up.  Because why wouldn't he want to go to court?  In reality, it's the best thing to do for both of them. If he doesn't have a full time job or reportable income, it can only benefit him.  But if he doesn't have a job, how did he buy that house? I'm just doing a refinance and I have to come up with w-2s, pay stubs, proof of financial reserves, closing costs, etc. It don't make no sense.

I think that the house must have been purchased by his family or based off their credit and info. It's the only thing that makes sense why Jo doesn't want the court looking too deep into his financials. Maybe he has an agreement with his parents for them to buy the house, and once he gets on his feet, he pays the rent. Kail definitely knows or senses it, which is why she was okay doing outside of court at first. But unless she provides concrete numbers, Jo should not cave to her demands.   

Nathan wanted a restraining order until Jenelle calmed down? What was he afraid she'd do? Blow up his truck? No. Her criminal offense was calling him while he was at the gym. They use the police and the courts to referee their immature, narcissistic fighting. There should be some kind of penalty when people do this. They abuse the system.

He probably also filed a restraining order to make him look better when he goes to court to file for custody of the Roll. Tip the scales in his balance to even out his Criminal DV charge that he got earlier.

[Darknight]

Yes, he will always be Aubrey's dad, unfortunately. What I mean by that is, unless he makes extreme changes in his heart, mind, soul, and puts his children first and foremost, I will guarantee that every girlfriend Adam screws with will come before those children, and when MTV is out of his life, so will his children. Not because of their mothers, but because of his choice to do so.

In reference to the bolded part, Kail went to live with her mother after she left Jo's parents' home. That is when she stole her mother's flat screen after Suzie's boyfriend dared to lay down a rule about Kail needing to clean up after herself and to stop leaving dirty diapers to pile up. Kail couldn't handle following the rules. That was the same reason she was having at the Rivera home. What Kail then did was, she signed up for Section 8 Housing after claiming she was homeless and had endured abuse from her mother's boyfriend. The abuse claim never made it on screen and she never mentioned it on screen because frankly, she lied. Kail couldn't claim housing by saying she was just a person who couldn't follow rules and thus found herself without a home because she chose to leave both residences. She had to lay out a claim of abuse in order to get emergency housing. It sounds so familiar to her claims that Jo had hit her and obtaining a temporary restraining order.

You are right about Kail working in the beginning. She was working at a part-time job. That is where she met Jordan. She later did work as a dental assistant.

What a tacky bitch. She was stealing resources from someone who actually needed it

[beesknees]

Scorpiosunshine, on 25 Sept 2015 - 11:33 PM, said:Scorpiosunshine, on 25 Sept 2015 - 11:33 PM, said:

  

 

 

    

  

Just to answer the questions about Kail pursuing a child support increase, and why she is choosing now-- my understanding is that she didn't initiate CS discussions out of nowhere; she received a letter stating that it was time for a review of child support since there hadn't been a change or a review in x number of years. (I don't recall the exact wording or number of years)

She was telling someone (Javi I guess?) and then later Jo about the letter, and in each of those conversations she made the point about how his support didn't even cover tuition, etc. The child support revision letter came up; she agreed that it was time, and Jo agreed but wanted to do it out of court. We all know the rest ...

 

Yeah, but why would Kailyn have to "explain" to Jo about the modification letter - if the state did indeed send a revision letter Jo would have gotten the same letter in his mailbox.  Jo acted like he was hearing about the letter for the first time. 

Edited September 27, 2015 by beesknees

[luvly]

So I can't speak for the entire Northeast but I know at my kid's elementary school (central NJ) we were not allowed to have a "Graduation" ceremony and had to have a "Moving Up" ceremony. We were told it was because "not everyone graduates and we can't make the ones that don't feel bad"

Blahhhh… child coddling at it's best. Gotta love life in the Dirty Jerz.

No one else has to call it a moving up ceremony? Just us? We are so weird in this area.

That's so weird. I lived in CNJ my whole life, minus my college years, and only made the permanent out-of-state move 3 years ago and I've never heard of a Moving Up ceremony. When I was in elementary school all graduations (kindergarten, 5th, 8th & 12th grade) were called graduations but by the time I got to 8th grade they changed it. They decided to stick with the traditional notion that a graduation means you earned a degree or diploma so only seniors got graduations and the other ceremonies were now promotions. 

 

I always feel like a weirdo Internet stalker when it comes to Jo/Kail situations because I've lived/worked/had friends/gone to school in every place they've lived so I know a lot of stuff about their circumstances, but that’s life in the tri-state area. One, Kail’s not lying about the letter from the court. By PA law, child support orders are automatically reviewed every 3 years. Jo should have gotten one but it’s possible it got lost in the change of address shuffle. Two, Jo’s an idiot. If he really ran his numbers through the DE child support calculator like Vee said and he’s still freaking out, he’s hiding some extraordinary income.Delaware is one of a handful of states that has something called a self-support allowance in their child support laws and it basically means you're not going to go broke paying child support. You get a net income allowance based off the federal poverty level (for DE it's $1,100/month) that assures that you have enough money to fulfill your basic needs and continue employment. Additionally, CS can't be more than 60% of your net income after the self-support allowance and it drops down to something like 45% if you have other children. Jo would have to make almost $100K to get anywhere near that $3,000 amount he kept mentioning.

Edited September 27, 2015 by luvly

[configdotsys]

I haven't finished reading all the comments here (up to page 3) but if Jo spent most of his life working for his parents' copy repair business, he probably made good money, made his own hours and didn't feel the pressure of working for some random company. Perhaps when his parents divorced they had to sell the business and split the take and Jo found that working for someone else isn't as easy as it was working for his parents. He seemed to have a pretty good life on the TM episode and maybe now is feeling the "you don't get everything handed to you all the time" lesson.

 

That being said, Kail earns a lot of money. Not to say at all-- and I cannot emphasize that enough-- that Jo should not pay, but part of me feels that Kail is not hurting for money and therefore chasing dollars that she is desperate for, but rather she's trying to crush Jo in an attempt to spoil his happy "family" with Vee and a new baby. Before Vee was pregnant, the demands for more money could also have been designed to take as much as she can from them just to be difficult.

 

Again, he should pay. Absolutely. But Kail is no saint and the level of disregard she has for everyone makes it impossible for me to think anything she does is out of genuine concern, but just to be the biggest bitch she can be. Sort of an "I had nothing growing up so fuck everyone else. I'm never bending or negotiating on anything again."

[toodywoody]

See of Jo had a job and had the child support payments come out of his checks, his employee can only take out 50 to 60 percent. Yes he would go into arrears but Kail would not be getting the full payment. I'm saying this as someone who does child support garnishments weekly and often my employees can not meet their weekly requirement and I can only take out so much. So Kail needs to shut up about child support and him getting a job because she could be shooting herself in the foot. If Jo is paying be grateful and shush it because once the new baby arrives and if he has two child support orders then it will go off of a percent of the total amount taken out if he cannot pay them both. So let's say the total for both orders each week is 1000 and Kails order is 250 of it, we'll guess what, if only 250 can be taken out of his check, the other order is at 75%, so she will only receive 62.50. So she needs to shush

[TM2]

That's so weird. I lived in CNJ my whole life, minus my college years, and only made the permanent out-of-state move 3 years ago and I've never heard of a Moving Up ceremony. When I was in elementary school all graduations (kindergarten, 5th, 8th & 12th grade) were called graduations but by the time I got to 8th grade they changed it. They decided to stick with the traditional notion that a graduation means you earned a degree or diploma so only seniors got graduations and the other ceremonies were now promotions. 

 

I always feel like a weirdo Internet stalker when it comes to Jo/Kail situations because I've lived/worked/had friends/gone to school in every place they've lived so I know a lot of stuff about their circumstances, but that’s life in the tri-state area. One, Kail’s not lying about the letter from the court. By PA law, child support orders are automatically reviewed every 3 years. Jo should have gotten one but it’s possible it got lost in the change of address shuffle. Two, Jo’s an idiot. If he really ran his numbers through the DE child support calculator like Vee said and he’s still freaking out, he’s hiding some extraordinary income.Delaware is one of a handful of states that has something called a self-support allowance in their child support laws and it basically means you're not going to go broke paying child support. You get a net income allowance based off the federal poverty level (for DE it's $1,100/month) that assures that you have enough money to fulfill your basic needs and continue employment. Additionally, CS can't be more than 60% of your net income after the self-support allowance and it drops down to something like 45% if you have other children. Jo would have to make almost $100K to get anywhere near that $3,000 amount he kept mentioning.

Oh my God. Thank you!

It is so strange reading all these posts who are about Kail being this higly intelligent manipulator who can just take advantage of stupid Jo who has no idea how to string his shoes. That dude is no fool. Years ago when they first got together you could tell he was all over his finances. And as you stated and you can tell on Vee's twitter account she says on more then one occasion that they know this and that etc. So it is not like they are winging it. Anyway. Kail is not the issue here. She can't make Jo NOT do things (like work) or make his childsupport so that he has no dime left. That is on him. The fact that we assume Jo doesn't know this or that is because not all is shown. If they both got the letter and Kail brings it up that does not make her greedy person. Especially since the re-evaluation of the childsupport is not something they should be discussing between them in the first place. Kail decided with Jo to look at it between themselves. It is not a obligation. Since Jo wants it that way (I have no idea why!) he should be more lenient since Kail has no reason to just go along with it when she can just relax and let the courts handle it. Sometimes it really is damned if you do, damned if you don't. If Kail didn't want to go through the courts then everyone would be saying that she was manipulating him and Jo should no way oblige with her because she will make him regret it. I mean, come on. Most of the time Kail's the idiot but in this case Jo is not making sense at all.

 

It is a mess and nothing is cleared up. Jo thinks he will pay thousands of dollars and Kail says they need to get this childsupport revised. Nothing more has been shown. I feel like Pandaface will probably bring it up during the reunion so we'll have to wait and see.

Edited September 27, 2015 by TM2

[grumpypanda]

*Sigh*

I wish PBS or perhaps HBO would do a series that follows 4 or 5 teen mothers over several years -- WITHOUT paying them hundreds of thousands of dollars and promoting them as pop culture figures. Young girls would benefit from seeing what happens down the road as women struggle to raise/support children while simultaneously trying to educate themselves, pay rent, and put food on the table in the real world.

Next season of TM2 will be more of the same bullshit. Entertaining at times but hardly educational.

A few years ago Lisa Ling's old show Our America did an episode on teen moms and a follow up episode a few years later that showed a very realistic portrayal of teen motherhood. I view this show more of a sociological experiment on what happens when a group of poor or middle-class kids are thrust into fame and money. I wonder how different these girls lives would be if 16 and Pregnant never existed. I would actually like to see a real follow up on some of the other girls from 16 that didn't get selected for Teen Mom.

[TM2]

I think that maybe he has a large savings account that his family continues to put money into.  Kail knows this from when they were together and probably figures it still happens.  She knows if it gets increased his family will increase their support to help out.  JMO

 Kail is not the person who initiated this. The state did.

[lezlers]

I don't think that Jo was getting pissed that Kail wants child support.  Jo was getting upset that Kail wants MORE child support on top of the court ordered monthly child support that she is already receiving. 

 

Well yeah and that still makes me side-eye him about his decision to not work.  Child support is supposed to get reviewed periodically.  If you're that freaked out about what you're paying being raised at ALL, then maybe you should go get a job.  There's no excuse for him to choose to sit at home all day when he is an able-bodied young man with a child on the way.  Jo gets no passes from me.