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S31: Stephen Fishbach

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Yea, I agree. I think it makes complete sense for Stephen. Which actually makes me even more annoyed by him, since hey, Monica made complete sense too and Stephen was all too giddy to lambaste her.

Monica's plan in no way helped Stephen and was potentially setting him up to be on the wrong side of the numbers down the line. Monica's plan made complete sense for Monica and Kimmi, but not for him. I don't follow contestants on Twitter, but I did see his blog post about it on People and I didn't see him lambaste Monica there—he said she came across as "scheme-y" and no one felt they could trust her. I saw him justifying his, Jeremy's, and Kimmi's decision to get rid of her (and admittedly, being overly congratulatory to himself and the other two about it), rather than him criticizing her excessively.

 

I think all crying on Survivor can be traced back to hunger and sleep deprivation in addition to whatever negative emotions the contestants are feeling at the time. If I ever went on Survivor, I'd probably be on the verge of tears constantly. Or I'd be like Holly from Nicaragua and go nuts on Day 5, but get voted out right away, instead of making it deep into the game like she did.

 

My speculation is that the root of Stephen's insecurity is that the original Bayon never went to Tribal Council, so he never got to find out who was allied with whom—perhaps for the best, since it seemed like he was on the bottom of that tribe, but we'll never know for sure. By this time in Tocantins, he had been to Tribal Council four times, so he knew exactly who he could trust going into the merge—Jalapao were down in numbers, but there were cracks in Timbira for them to exploit. This time, he's on the side with the potential cracks, but he doesn't really know where they are.

 

Additionally, the tribal shake-ups haven't given him many opportunities to forge new alliances, since he's always been on tribes with a majority from the original Bayon. He has pretty much had to stick with Jeremy and Kimmi this whole time and out of everyone in the game and they may not be the optimal alliance for him. And anyway, he only has one vote as evidence he can trust them, instead of three or four. Even if they stay three strong, that's not going to be enough at the merge, or even within the group of original members of Bayon. So if we make the big assumption that he wants to go to the end with Jeremy and Kimmi, they need two more people to get a core of five within the original Bayon tribe, and that only works if the Bayon majority at the merge take out the remaining members of the original Ta Keo tribe.

 

That's a lot of "if" statements to make it to the end. But if he doesn't like that route, then he needs to figure out how to work with people and within group dynamics that he knows even less about. If he doesn't figure things out right away once they've all merged, he's screwed and I think he knows it and is frustrated because he can't do very much about his lack of information.

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Technically, he could enlarge his circle of potential allies, but he seems to be very awkward at the social part of the game (that was really JT's huge strength in Tocantins, much more than his prowess in challenges), spends too much time running scenarios in his head and doesn't seem to get that in order to get people to do what he'd like them to do he must offer them something that benefits them. Sometimes whatever "benefits them" can be emotional rather than strategic (as in Woo being voted out, because I still don't think he was a strategic threat to anyone on that tribe at that moment), but in order to identify these potential triggers you have to listen to people, which so far as editing is showing he's not doing much of. 

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That's also why his 'Bayon Stong' bullshit is annoying. You/Jeremy/Kimmi took the first chance you got to get rid of a Bayon memeber, so stfu.

 

Because one "thumbs up," in no way shows how much I agree with this statement.

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Really excellent analysis Hera, this is what I come here for!  It is so hard for us in the audience to keep in mind who knows what at what time.  But as you say, Stephen's information is very limited, and yes that must be difficult and frustrating.

 

Technically, he could enlarge his circle of potential allies, but he seems to be very awkward at the social part of the game (that was really JT's huge strength in Tocantins, much more than his prowess in challenges),

 

Yes, exactly.  Stephen did good thinking in Tocantins.  But JT was the one who could get members of the other tribe to like him and do what he wanted, and made it so that instead of Jalapao having to beg for scraps when down in numbers, like keeps happening to Spencer, it was almost like Tyson and Coach etc were begging to be let into the Jalapao inner circle.

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The thing that bothers me about Stephen is that going into this game, Stephen should be the favorite. Not only is it his job to study this game, but I also assume that he's interviewed most of the people in this game and he has access to Rob's website which has so many so called survivor experts. Yet for all this preparation, he's coming across as an amateur. Maybe my expectations were too high.

 

My other problem is that while he might not have been able to train for challenges, he should've been able to at least brush up on basic survivor life. Things like starting a fire or chopping a coconut etc.

 

On a strange note. It seems that the show takes glee in painting Stephen as a screwup.

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Thanks but (yes, I'm very dense sometimes), I still don't understand what it means/what he does on a day-to-day basis. I swear, I'm not trying to be cute, but just trying to get a hang on things :-)

 

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You can be very busy and find the time to prepare yourself. Stephen was pretty close to a lock to get on the show. The RHAP community was going to vote for him hardcore. We all knew where they would be filming, or anyone who took the time and wanted to be spoiled knew. He could have been looking up what there is to eat there and how to catch and open it. Or how to start a fire out there. He might not have been able to practice it, and given that the fire starting conditions would be totally different I understand why he did not practice it, but he should have known some of the tricks used to start fires there.

 

Stephen falls into the Max, Shirin, Spencer, Cochran category. The super fan who is socially awkward and needs just the right person to take them far in the game. The nerdy super fan understands the strategy intellectually but struggles to actually implement that strategy. Many times they say the right thing and do the exact opposite.

 

Stephen's alliance had no reason to listen to him or take his strategy into consideration because he was not an important member of that alliance. He added nothing at challenges and little to nothing at camp. He understands strategy but so does Jeremy. And Jeremy knows that Joe is a nice little shield/buffer for his game. Jeremy does not want to get rid of Joe and Jeremy is providing at camp and in challenges. He is also socially cool and knows how to interact with people. Of course the other alliance members are going to listen to Jeremy and not Stephen.

 

Stephen did well in his first season to hook up with JT who was able to protect Stephen. This season is simply showing the weakness of the super fan nerd in the game. What baffles me is that Stephen does not see what his flaws are or somehow or another sees himself as totally different then the other superfan nerds and does not see how their failings are his failings. Maybe that is because he went so far in his first season but damn is he blind.

 

Essentially, Stephen is the fan at home who wants the show to only focus on the strategy and ignore all other elements of the game. But that makes for crappy TV and really isn't the only aspect of the game.

 

Don't get me wrong. I am Stephen. I would be the one focused on strategy. I think I would do better at the competitions since I am reasonably athletic. I think I would do better at camp because I love to camp out and have done my fair share of bike trips (self powered not motorcycle), canoe trips and the like. Then again, those were 30 years ago (ok I am feeling old now) and we had fire starters so not so sure how I would do in a real survival situation. Watching Survivorman does not mean I can live like Les.

 

But he is one of the students of the game and it is frustrating to watch these folks fail so frequently and not learn a damn thing from past seasons and past players.

 

So yeah, Stephen's tears to me are more int he camp of "What the hell did you think was going to happen and why didn't you actually do something to change that?" camp for me. He is frustrated with how things are playing out but his own confessionals make it clear to me that he does not understand how he could have changed that. Jeremy's pep talk shows why Jeremy is calling the shots and not Stephen. Jeremy contributes and Stephen does not. Joe contributes and is a shield for Jeremy, so Joe is going to stay because it helps Jeremy's game. Stephen crying because he cannot convince others that they should listen to him just causes me to roll my eyes. He is not upset because he is playing a game that goes against his personal beliefs (Lisa) or that it hurts to stab people in the back (Dawn) he is crying because he is inept and that pisses him off.

 

So yeah, I don't get all that sympathetic.

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The thing that bothers me about Stephen is that going into this game, Stephen should be the favorite. Not only is it his job to study this game, but I also assume that he's interviewed most of the people in this game and he has access to Rob's website which has so many so called survivor experts. Yet for all this preparation, he's coming across as an amateur. Maybe my expectations were too high.

All that stuff is close to meaningless. He's a bad player, a hopeless player, because he tries to intellectualize something that isn't always logical or able to be broken down into clear strategic movies. 

 

Survivor is almost 100% about a combination of three things: gut instinct, flexibility, and the ability to read people. This guy has none of those. And even worse he doesn't truly understand those are the things needed (or at least understand them in a real way, vs. trying to intellectualize and analyze them).  Thus he's inherently a terrible player... and always will be.

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Thanks but (yes, I'm very dense sometimes), I still don't understand what it means/what he does on a day-to-day basis. I swear, I'm not trying to be cute, but just trying to get a hang on things :-)

I think it's safe to say he sits at a desk and works at a computer.  That's probably all that's relevant except that as a VP he might supervise people.

 

I need to rewatch the episode and not miss his breakdown.  I don't really see Stephen totally missing how to play or not contributing.  All I saw was he struggled with a branch and some aiming challenges and gave some self-effacing confessionals.   

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All that stuff is close to meaningless. He's a bad player, a hopeless player, because he tries to intellectualize something that isn't always logical or able to be broken down into clear strategic movies. 

 

Survivor is almost 100% about a combination of three things: gut instinct, flexibility, and the ability to read people. This guy has none of those. And even worse he doesn't truly understand those are the things needed (or at least understand them in a real way, vs. trying to intellectualize and analyze them).  Thus he's inherently a terrible player... and always will be.

 

 

He might not be showing flexibility this season but his gut instinct and ability to read people are above average at the very least. In fact. that was one of the things Probst remarked on AFTER the season was over and Probst should know since he knows the results. I am not seeing this "OMG! What a bad player!" that people are seeing.

 

 

"Stephen Fishbach

I like Fishbach, and I've wanted him back for a long time. He almost won this game because he is really good at reading people. The last time he played, he aligned with the wrong guy. He won't make that mistake again. He's a true student of the game, and he was a legitimate threat in this game."

http://www.people.com/article/jeff-probst-survivor-cambodia-second-chance-cast-assessment

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Well, seeing as Stephen keeps the Survivor mystique alive day in, day out, fair chance for our dear Jeff  to go putting the kabosh on that. 

 

But this, I think, is hubris: 

[his] ability to read people are above average at the very least
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I am not seeing this "OMG! What a bad player!" that people are seeing.

I can't stand Stephen and I don't think he's showing himself to be much of a player, but I agree with this. He's not that bad imo.

 

"I like Fishbach, and I've wanted him back for a long time. He almost won this game because he is really good at reading people. The last time he played, he aligned with the wrong guy. He won't make that mistake again. He's a true student of the game, and he was a legitimate threat in this game."

http://www.people.com/article/jeff-probst-survivor-cambodia-second-chance-cast-assessment

I think he is, in fact, making that very same mistake again. With Jeremy. He seems so focused on Joe being the next JT that he doesn't even seem to realize that Jeremy is totally playing him/using him/going to beat him. So now this quote from Jeff has me wondering if maybe Stephen ends up taking Jeremy out.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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Someone in the episode thread said almost exactly that....'the JT you should fear is actually the man you are talking to about the JT you fear'!

 

ETA:  As for Probst's quote, maybe his mistake won't be aligning with the wrong guy, it will be him trying to get out the ghost of that guy.  Who knows.

Edited by pennben
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In his pre-show interviews, Stephen said he had wanted JT to be his family visit, but the show said no. Now I'm very sad that's not going to happen. With Stephen having a full on meltdown over the ghost of JT, how sweet would it be for the real JT to show up later in the season? I bet the show regretted that decision the second Stephen gave that confessional.

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I think it's safe to say he sits at a desk and works at a computer.  That's probably all that's relevant except that as a VP he might supervise people.

 

I need to rewatch the episode and not miss his breakdown.  I don't really see Stephen totally missing how to play or not contributing.  All I saw was he struggled with a branch and some aiming challenges and gave some self-effacing confessionals.   

Most of those confessionals are in the bonus clip material. He has had several secret scenes devoted to his lack of survival skills and how he has to try and learn from others and that he is miserably bad at it. There is also a bonus clip where he goes on a rant about how silly it is to worry about winning chicken because $1,000,000 will buy a lot of chicken and then discusses how frustrating it is that others are so worried about winning challenges.

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discusses how frustrating it is that others are so worried about winning challenges.

yeah, there once again too he does not inhabit the same planet as the other. Does he not care at all about challenges or is that mere posturing after the fact? 

 

(I read challenge in the post I quoted as "reward challenge" but hey, I guess whatever I wrote should work for an IC too)

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I think he meant reward challenges specifically, though.  I can see his point.  If they're on a winning tribe, eating fine, why berate each other and yourselves over some bad ring tosses that only mattered to a food reward.  

 

I thought Jeremy's comment about confidence was over the top and stupid, though, so that's probably why I see it from Stephen's perspective.  It sounded like the subtext was, "Jeez, Stephen, you can't do the things well that *I* can, therefore you're a loser and I will deign to rescue you from your loserdom with a bit of advice...."  Stephen does plenty well.  Ring toss and shellfish cracking have never been must-have skills out there.  

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Oh, that subtext is there. The comment is not limited to that one challenge. It comes from all the other failures that Stephen has had. The main show has had a nice sample Stephen's failures at camp and in challenges. The bonus clips add to the mounting evidence. Jeremy's comment in a larger context is that Stephen questions his abilities regularly and he needs to stop doing that and just give things his best effort.

 

Honestly, I think that Jeremy and others are a bit tired of Stephen's ineptitude in pretty much all things Survivor. They are carrying his ass.

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Yeah.  I feel like every tribe, every season, there are some who are willing and able to hunt, cook, clean, build, etc. and in that respect they 'carry' the ones who aren't.  At least Stephen is willing to try and willing to learn.  Often players do just fine in the game without even bothering to do that.

 

Jeremy seemed annoyed at losing the chicken challenge but mostly in those secret scenes he looks amused with Stephen to me, and I feel like he enjoys feeling physically superior to him.  

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I think that Jeremy's more annoyed by Stephen's body language before and after the challenges. It's one thing to lose because you're physically unable to do the challenges but when you're mentally defeating yourself before the challenges even happen, that's a problem.

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To me, Stephen came into this game with a plan, and it seems like he doesn't have a plan b, c, d, or e if plan a fails to work.  Apparently he had alliances made, which we didn't see, but if Jeremy was in one of them, it was likely Jeremy was again looking for extra cover.  He likely thinks he can turn it around on Stephen being the bigger threat if push comes to shove.  He said going into this season that he was nervous because of all the crap he has talked about these very people now playing the game.  I get where the tears are coming from.  And it probably isn't easy to be some Survivor Know-It-All superfan that is failing miserably.  I figured Stephen would hit the ground running and be far more saavy and smarter than he is.  I don't know that you can necessarily improve challenge performance if your a guy like Stephen, but I would think being a second chancer and super fan, you would at least know going in basic Survivor-fire making, coconut chopping, food gathering, etc.  

 

ProfCrash, word to both your posts.

Edited by LadyChatts
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You can be very busy and find the time to prepare yourself. Stephen was pretty close to a lock to get on the show. The RHAP community was going to vote for him hardcore. We all knew where they would be filming, or anyone who took the time and wanted to be spoiled knew. He could have been looking up what there is to eat there and how to catch and open it. Or how to start a fire out there. He might not have been able to practice it, and given that the fire starting conditions would be totally different I understand why he did not practice it, but he should have known some of the tricks used to start fires there.

Stephen falls into the Max, Shirin, Spencer, Cochran category. The super fan who is socially awkward and needs just the right person to take them far in the game. The nerdy super fan understands the strategy intellectually but struggles to actually implement that strategy. Many times they say the right thing and do the exact opposite.

Stephen's alliance had no reason to listen to him or take his strategy into consideration because he was not an important member of that alliance. He added nothing at challenges and little to nothing at camp. He understands strategy but so does Jeremy. And Jeremy knows that Joe is a nice little shield/buffer for his game. Jeremy does not want to get rid of Joe and Jeremy is providing at camp and in challenges. He is also socially cool and knows how to interact with people. Of course the other alliance members are going to listen to Jeremy and not Stephen.

Stephen did well in his first season to hook up with JT who was able to protect Stephen. This season is simply showing the weakness of the super fan nerd in the game. What baffles me is that Stephen does not see what his flaws are or somehow or another sees himself as totally different then the other superfan nerds and does not see how their failings are his failings. Maybe that is because he went so far in his first season but damn is he blind.

Essentially, Stephen is the fan at home who wants the show to only focus on the strategy and ignore all other elements of the game. But that makes for crappy TV and really isn't the only aspect of the game.

Don't get me wrong. I am Stephen. I would be the one focused on strategy. I think I would do better at the competitions since I am reasonably athletic. I think I would do better at camp because I love to camp out and have done my fair share of bike trips (self powered not motorcycle), canoe trips and the like. Then again, those were 30 years ago (ok I am feeling old now) and we had fire starters so not so sure how I would do in a real survival situation. Watching Survivorman does not mean I can live like Les.

But he is one of the students of the game and it is frustrating to watch these folks fail so frequently and not learn a damn thing from past seasons and past players.

So yeah, Stephen's tears to me are more int he camp of "What the hell did you think was going to happen and why didn't you actually do something to change that?" camp for me. He is frustrated with how things are playing out but his own confessionals make it clear to me that he does not understand how he could have changed that. Jeremy's pep talk shows why Jeremy is calling the shots and not Stephen. Jeremy contributes and Stephen does not. Joe contributes and is a shield for Jeremy, so Joe is going to stay because it helps Jeremy's game. Stephen crying because he cannot convince others that they should listen to him just causes me to roll my eyes. He is not upset because he is playing a game that goes against his personal beliefs (Lisa) or that it hurts to stab people in the back (Dawn) he is crying because he is inept and that pisses him off.

So yeah, I don't get all that sympathetic.

This 100%! I also have no problem with tears in Survivor - I was a huge fan of Lisa Whelchel, for example, and actually really identified with her. I was not a fan of Dawn but it had little to do with her crying.

As I said in a different thread, I really identified with Stephen when this season started. I suspect if I played the game, I would be woefully inept. But, to me, he isn't upset about being inept he's frustrated that no one will do what he wants to do. I spend all day with 4 year olds and his crying fit sounded way too much like that for me to be all that sympathetic.

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(Copied over from the episode thread)

 

I think we'll just have to disagree on this :)  I'm not saying Stephen wasn't a little uncomfortable watching that scene last week.  I kinda was too. 

 

I read it as just his frustrations getting the best of him in a TH. It wasn't about Joe, it was him being unable to find a path forward mixed with fatigue at having to be "on" all the time at camp.  He knows he's not at the center of things, and he can't really stay out of everyone's notice because they know what kind of player he is.

 

I'd bet these little raw emotional moments are common when a player gets away from everyone else. For whatever reason, we saw this one.

 

I understand if it reads a little whiny or entitled. Fishbahhk may have some of that in him too -- he did date Courtney Yates for awhile, they must have had something in common. From my POV, dude just needed a release. Been there, although never when I was on the far side of the planet with no one I could open up to.

Edited by phlebas
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Another thing about Stephen's tears: the emotional impact of Terry's son's illness may have triggered tears when he might not have cried otherwise.  Sometimes an emotional situation can trigger tears about something that doesn't seem that important.

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Random musing:

I don't really know when/how Stephen was supposed to eliminate JT. They were down 6-3 at the merge, and booting Brendan and Tyson were the right moves to even out the numbers.

FF to F7 where, with people less insane than Coach, Sierra and Debbie, Stephen had legitimate concerns that Erinn might flip back to Timbira. The only thing keeping Coach and Debbie unaligned with Sierra was their cult like obsession with JT.

Final 6. Who would have voted against JT with Stephen? Erinn, and he could've used Taj's Idol, but would Taj have revenge-flipped to Coach and Debbie at F5? Obviously JT is a physical player, but by this point Stephen had won 2 individual challenges to JT's 0, and Erinn was a monster at puzzle challenges (finishing a split second behind JT on the F4 Spider puzzle despite lagging in the maze).

Obviously there were alternatives, but I don't think booting JT earlier than F5 would've been good moves, and Stephen/Erinn had a decent shot at typical Top4/Top3 immunity challenges (puzzles and endurance). It didn't work out for him, but I think dude's too hard on himself.

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I'm dying at the idea that he thinks the way to bond with people and earn their jury vote is to recite poetry. "I think these two both deserve the title of Sole Survivor, but Stephen knows all the words to Ode on a Grecian Urn so I've really got to give him the edge here."

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Still, I have him (and Wikipedia) to thank for introducing me to the lovely 'Pied Beauty,' since my education in poetry was decidedly more new school, primarily mid / late 20c.

 

Pied beauty is my favorite of all of his poems, followed closely by Inversnaid.  http://www.bartleby.com/122/33.html  

Now I'll stop channeling Stephen ;-)

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Does the poem have anything to do with a "future" story? I didn't have too much of a problem with it. Although, I thought it was odd that the editors put in there. It didn't really have anything to do with was currently going on from what I could tell. That said, I can't even decipher what the poem means or if it did have anything going on currently in the game. Did/Does it?

Edited by ByaNose

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That's where Stephen messed up he could've told Andrew about his hot model ex gf from survivor, include something about a stack of playboys and voila, he and Andrew would've bonded.

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Fish reminds me of when George Will wrote that book about baseball back in the 1990s.

George Will had studied baseball extensively, could talk about the game endlessly, but could never play it.

I remember liking Fishbach in Tocantins, but I don't like him in this season.

His statement about "three small women" being on the chopping block probably didn't go unnoticed at tribal.

I hope it stuck in the minds of the alpha males he so fears, and gets him voted out.

His comment about an evolution of strategy sounds more like a cover story for not being able to make things click.

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Does the poem have anything to do with a "future" story? I didn't have too much of a problem with it. Although, I thought it was odd that the editors put in there. It didn't really have anything to do with was currently going on from what I could tell. That said, I can't even decipher what the poem means or if it did have anything going on currently in the game. Did/Does it?

 

It means there's pretty stuff in the world and in Hopkins' opinion God made it.

It either means Stephen wanted them to stop and marvel at the beauty of the Cambodian setting, or marvel at his erudite memory for poetry, or (my guess) do both.

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I'm pretty sure it was just a time-filler.  What we never see is how mind-numbingly boring it is to be on Survivor, especially when the weather's bad.  Many, many people have commented on it in interviews.  I don't think it had anything to do with impressing people, it was more like, "we're sitting in the shelter bored out of our freaking minds, there's no TV or whatever, how did pre-industrial people entertain themselves?  Well one thing is they recited poetry, I can do that..."

 

That we saw it at all was part of Stephen's "look at this hapless dope" edit.

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Thanks Jobiska & KimberStormer. I have heard about the sitting in the shelter during all that rain is boring as hell and that it also hampers any game talk because most are "sleeping" with the enemy. Everyone is either keeping quiet or making small talk to pass the time. I guess Stephen went a little overboard. I doubt most of them gave it a second thought but it was a weird thing to show. I guess it's just to continue the edit of Stephen being a doofus this season. LOL!!!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tatBwHX3hkA

 

I am rolling over Stephen acting like all these people are too stupid and simple to know poetry.

  

I'm dying at the idea that he thinks the way to bond with people and earn their jury vote is to recite poetry. "I think these two both deserve the title of Sole Survivor, but Stephen knows all the words to Ode on a Grecian Urn so I've really got to give him the edge here."

God, yall are killing me today - almost as much as watching Spence's eyes roll during Fishbucket's recitation.

The most perfect follow-up in the the history of humankind would have been if, after Stephen was done, Keith had said:

"Hey, Stephen, I know some poetry, too!

<hawk> <spit>

Ahhhh, dang it, how does it go...? Oh, yeah.

There once was a girl from Barbados...."

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Poor Stephen.  He's that kid that just wants so bad to be part of the cool kids clique.  I don't think he really knew what he was signing up for with this second chance.  

 

Speaking of Keith, somewhere on the editing room floor, I have to believe there's a clip of Keith slamming his poetry jam.  If he brings up what he thinks about Joe doing yoga, I can't believe he wouldn't have a comment about this.  But the eye rolling and looks of 'really?' were a good fill in.

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Watching the episode, I just thought, "OK, Stephen's one of those people who likes poetry and know some poems by heart."  I am actually one such person.   I know poems by heart.  Poetry has been a big part of my life.

 

What's disappointing and bizarre is that Stephen memorized specific poems in order to recite them on Survivor. 

 

If it had actually been a natural outgrowth of his feelings in that moment, maybe it would have gone over better.

 

Also, it must be said, that reciting "God's Grandeur" to people who are all cranky and huddled together in a hut because of a monsoon or something...yeah, maybe not the right moment.

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Stephen is that guy who gets invited to a football tailgate...

...and shows up with a nice bottle of Chardonnay.

 

So a real life Fraiser Crane then.

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What got me is that Stephen played his first season with Coach, who recited his own original poem at Tribal Council (and then got voted out). I'm sure it was just a time-filler, but I couldn't help but make that connection to Coach when I watched it and cringe.

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Does the poem have anything to do with a "future" story? I didn't have too much of a problem with it. Although, I thought it was odd that the editors put in there. It didn't really have anything to do with was currently going on from what I could tell. That said, I can't even decipher what the poem means or if it did have anything going on currently in the game. Did/Does it?

 

 

a redditer's interpretation of the poem. a worthwhile read.

https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/comments/3rna9w/was_stephens_poem_really_a_throwaway_scene/

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a redditer's interpretation of the poem. a worthwhile read.

https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/comments/3rna9w/was_stephens_poem_really_a_throwaway_scene/

 

I always thought the poem had to do with "man's" disconnection from nature and attempts to conquer it, but that nature is from God and endures in glory despite humanity's alienation from it and destructiveness to it.  It was written during the Industrial Revolution, no?

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I went from being a Fishbach fan, believing this his early edit meant he was likely headed for heavenly redemption down the road where he took the bull by the horns and took over control of this game.  Then I quit thinking that when he continued to get a poor, incompetent edit and looked like he gave up in challenges.  I felt sorry for him, but after tonight, I hope he's the next to go.  He's got a serious chip on his shoulder about getting Joe out.  He needs to look at other possibilities besides Joe, and maybe not plot so heavily on one person before the IC.  Wait until they lose, otherwise you might put an unwanted target on your back.  I appreciate good game play, but I also think he's got a JT complex.  It's like getting Joe out means he wins.  At the very least, I wouldn't talk about it to people that are in an alliance with Joe and have no reason to flip, or want him as a shield.  Go to the people who need the numbers in their alliance.  I about died when I saw his look during TC tonight when Kelley whipped her idol out.  It almost struck me as a 'how dare you' kind of stunned.  Of course, he likely thought he was leaving at that point.  If he makes it to the FTC, I believe this time he'd fall apart.  Watching Stephen this season has tainted my view of him from Tocantins.

Edited by LadyChatts
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Even, watching Stephen on RHAP I had no idea how haunted he was from his first season. He really does have tunnel vision when it comes to Joe. Joe will leave when Joe leaves. He either wins every Individual Immunity or not. Until then, Stephen should have relaxed. Of course, this is easy for me to say since I'm not out there. He got another dopey edit last night since he felt he cost them the win in the boat challenge. The editors are really hitting us over the head with Stephen is being a doofus this season. I wonder if he makes the Final Tribal Council again and loses or just misses out and makes the Final 3. Still a long way to go.

Edited to add since I shouldn't type at 6 am or not have autocorrect or spellcheck. I swear I am going blind at 51. I don't know how I get through the day sometimes. Sorry, 'bout that folks!!

Edited by ByaNose
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