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Darren Criss/Blaine Anderson


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While not the best actor on the show, I think Darren truly gave 100% any time he was on-screen

Don't agree. Just one example - he partied all night at the Leakycon in Chicago when the next day he had to be in NYC to film the breakup scenes (for Season 4). Afterwards he complained about being given rewrites (if he's to be believed) as an excuse for not doing well in the scene - which showed. If true, that's probably not the only time any of them has been given last minute rewrites. I know he's devoted to Starkid but Glee was already his job, and that was not giving 100%. I don't know if giving 100% all the time can be said about any of them.

 

I also don't see how Starkid alone can guarantee him a thriving career. 

 

Finn was also thrown under the bus a lot, but Cory was a good actor and managed to keep the reigns on his character. Of course some plots are unsalvageable but a few actors managed to rise above them most often than not. 

Edited by fakeempress
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Darren certainly got handicapped by the crap writing, but so did everyone else on the show. That doesn't explain why some (Lea, Cory, Chris, Naya, Jane, Dot, Matt) still managed to excel while Darren (along with Chord most notably) floundered.

 

The nice thing about having writers not giving you every single detail is that it gives a motivated actor a lot of room to build the character on his own. I just don't think that Darren was at all invested in making Blaine more than he appeared on the script pages and it showed with the way his character just veered all over the map. There was no core to him. Say what you will about Rachel, Kurt, Finn, etc... all of them had to act in ways that were odd at times but the core characters remained intact. That's due primarily to the strength of the actors.

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I actually don't blame Darren Criss for the debacle that befell Blaine and Klaine.

Nor should you. Chris has never been able to convey as strong feelings by Kurt for Blaine as for Finn or Rachel. This is not just recently, where Chris has been essentially MIA, but it goes all the way back at least to the final episode of S2. The quality difference in the parallel romantic scenes between Finchel on the floor of the library and the Klaine Nationals ("The Kiss") debriefing is night and day. Kurt's response to Blaine's ILY was so ambiguous (to his own fans) that Chris actually released a statement saying that of course Kurt loved him. (If anyone wants to see what a talented, yet still unknown, actor can accomplish in evoking a gay teenager's homoerotic affection, check out the '93 movie "This Boy's Life" - Di Caprio, DeNiro, Barkin - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Boy%27s_Life_(film))

Oh, and as a strictly Lea fan, thank you, thank you, thank you to Klaine for providing the outlet that helped keep Chris away from Rachel's duets. Sorry, Darren, it's a nasty job, but somebody had to do it, and better you than Lea. (If only Samcedes had done the same with Chord.) And we'll always have "Suddenly Seymour", which was a whole lot better than this:

http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Megan-Hilty-Brian-Gallaghers-Stunning-Suddenly-Seymour-From-LITTLE-SHOP-OF-HORRORS-20150210#.)

Edited by Higgs
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So if a comment is not judging Darren's acting skills as the absolute worst ever, it must be by his publicist?

 

Not to get into the discussion of his abilities or lack thereof and whether or not he was just not skilled enough to rise above awful material because that stuff is so subjective and really it's all been said multiple times. But I will say for the record, with respect to the example of Cory, I hated Finn during that awful Quinn/Finn redux and it was the point where I stopped liking and caring about Finn and Rachel as a couple. Now I never put that on Cory and his abilities as an actor and I do think he did a great job as Finn (I still get weirded out referring to him in the past tense) but if we're using that as some measure of being good enough to rise above bad material, then for me he didn't. I hated Finn at that point and I pretty sure the writers weren't trying to make me hate him. 

 

The quality difference in the parallel romantic scenes between Finchel on the floor of the library and the Klaine Nationals ("The Kiss") debriefing is night and day. Kurt's response to Blaine's ILY was so ambiguous (to his own fans) that Chris actually released a statement saying that of course Kurt loved him.

 

 

I remember that actually. The TWOP thread for that episode was interesting. There were a lot of comments, even by people who didn't like or care about Klaine at all, that felt that Kurt's response was his being polite because Blaine said it first and he felt like he was obligated to say it back. Now I personally didn't read the scene that way but that's a perfect example of how sometimes different people can view a scene a different way and that ultimately so much of this is subjective. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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I will take Happy Days/Get Happy and For Good over Suddenly Seymour as Rachel duets any day, but what do I know.

Not only was Happy better than Suddenly, but I once wrote that Chris was better than his friend Judy in it. Ah, those were the days.

I was comparing Suddenlys, not Lea's duets with various partners.

Edited by Higgs
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So if a comment is not judging Darren's acting skills as the absolute worst ever, it must by his publicist?

That's not what that comment was doing, in my reading. I don't really think it's Darren's publicist, of course. 

 

 

Not to get into the discussion of his abilities or lack thereof and whether or not he was just not skilled enough to rise above awful material because that stuff is so subjective and really it's all been said multiple times. But I will say for the record, with respect to the example of Cory, I hated Finn during that awful Quinn/Finn redux and it was the point where I stopped liking and caring about Finn and Rachel as a couple. Now I never put that on Cory and his abilities as an actor and I do think he did a great job as Finn (I still get weirded out referring to him in the past tense) but if we're using that as some measure of being good enough to rise above bad material, then for me he didn't. I hated Finn at that point and I pretty sure the writers weren't trying to make me hate him.

 

Everyone has got their off moments. But most of the time I can differentiate where the writers shortchanged the character, and where the actors didn't manage to be convincing. It's because Darren has taken me out of scenes more than enough times when the scenes themselves shouldn't be a challenge (just one example is the fight with Adam Lambert's character where I was entirely confused if Darren was playing it seriously or comedically) that I don't think the writers were the only ones responsible for how I ended up not caring about Blaine.

Edited by fakeempress
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I partly blame Darren for Blaine being such an unlikeable and 2-dimensional character, because of his acting choices and/or lack of much acting talent.

As others have said: most if not all of the Glee characters have had shitty writing and total characterisation changes, but the better actors on the show still were able to maintain the core of their characters, and made the crap RIB had them act out at least somewhat believable and sincere. But Darren is not a good enough actor to do that (and/or he's not focused and committed enough, but I digress).

 

Darren portrayed Blaine downright creepy and scary sometimes when Blaine had to be upset or angry, like in the scene when he went to Elliot's appartment to tell him to back off, or when he was fighting with Kurt in season 5 and also in the Whitney episode in season 3. And at other times his sadness over e.g. losing Kurt after he cheated came across like whining and pouting.

Those facial expressions and OTT acting are not in a script, but are mostly left up to the actor, with some guidance of the director of course. And I think that very often questionable/wrong things that Blaine did were put more in a negative light (and therefore damaged Blaine's character more) because of the way Darren acted those scenes.

 

Characters can do bad things and make mistakes, but with a good actor acting those scenes and saying those words the audience can see the reasoning and feelings behind why that character is doing something wrong, and therefore they will still sympathize with the character.

But imo Darren often accomplished the exact opposite: because of his OTT but shallow acting (that seems to only vary between puppy eyes, pouting, being condescending, and full-on madness/rage) he made Blaine's actions and words look worse than they were, and more deliberately intented cruel.

 

Imo Darren is bad at acting drama, but he can be funny in comedic scenes.

But as acting is partly subjective YMMV of course.

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The TWOP thread for that episode [season 2 finale] was interesting. There were a lot of comments, even by people who didn't like or care about Klaine at all, that felt that Kurt's response was his being polite because Blaine said it first and he felt like he was obligated to say it back. Now I personally didn't read the scene that way but that's a perfect example of how sometimes different people can view a scene a different way and that ultimately so much of this is subjective.

When an actor has to release a statement to his own fans to resolve a debate about his character's key motivations that form the heart of his SL, there is a serious problem. One could watch the corresponding Finchel scene with the sound off and know exactly how they felt about each other. Edited by Higgs
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When an actor has to release a statement to his own fans to resolve a debate about his character's motivations, there is a serious problem. One could watch the corresponding Finchel scene with the sound off and know exactly how they felt about each other.

One should be so lucky if that's the only thing they have to explain over a series of 6 seasons and I can't count how many episodes. I wish Darren was as obliging about the many scenes he fumbled.  

 

I think Darren can be judged on his own as an actor, there is ample material for that on the show. 

Edited by fakeempress
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Well these acting debates go on and on and on...

 

Going back to the writing, I find it almost incredible that after nearly 4 1/2 years the character of Blaine is drawn so sketchily and was never bothered to be be fleshed out.  The writers never gave a shit.  I personally liked Blaine 1.0 from Season 2.  An outwardly cocky confident Warbler who really was just trying to figure things out, his bravado might have been just a veneer, but it fit the character as initially portrayed.  By the time they retconned his age in Season 3 (and YES, they did because the impression before was the older mentor to Kurt) all bets were off as Blaine veered from younger to insecure to fightclub boxer to angry boy to insecure afraid of losing Kurt yet again to supporting boyfriend all in 180 turns of character to suit the writers.

 

The problem was that the characters, even if archetypes, were firmly laid out in Season One for Kurt, Rachel, Finn and Santana, and to a lesser degree Artie.   But they were laid out in a way that Blaine never was.   He was essentially written to be a prop for Kurt, and the irony is even now, with more of a "leading character" with songs and screentime, he's still just a glorified prop.  If he doesn't get Kurt in the end, there is no purpose to the character.  That is not the fault of Darren the actor but the writers,

 

Even Season 4, when he had so much screen time and solos, especially after the Breakup and separated from Kurt  what character development did he actually get?  He moped about losing Kurt, was boosted up to being a hero by Sam , had a crush on Sam, (meanwhile Tina was figuratively kissing his ass 24/7) and by the end of the season, instead of discovering he could actually stand on his own, or didn't need Kurt, declared Kurt was his eternal soul mate, resolved to propose to him even though they weren't even together as a couple.  Who can take such a character at face value even in a fictional universe?

 

So Blaine has always been a trade off character on Glee, you give up genuine character development in return for having him sing a lot.  After 4 1/12 years we haven't met his father, we have no idea why he's so insecure yet possessive around Kurt, have no clue to his career aspirations, and still have no idea if he can actually survive without Kurt.

 

We know what the spoilers tell us, which means Blaine is tethered to Kurt and has no existence on the show other than to be his flawed teenage dream.

 

And now, not only has he cheated on Kurt with a random Face book guy, but decides to hook up with the ex bully who stole Kurt's first kiss, and the show acts like it's not a big deal, as does Blaine himself. 

 

So myself, I think Darren's acting is almost irrelevant, the character of Blaine has been so fucked up that he's a joke.   ("Almost" because, yes, I don't think his acting helps matters TBH).  

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The problem was that the characters, even if archetypes, were firmly laid out in Season One for Kurt, Rachel, Finn and Santana, and to a lesser degree Artie.   But they were laid out in a way that Blaine never was.   He was essentially written to be a prop for Kurt, and the irony is even now, with more of a "leading character" with songs and screentime, he's still just a glorified prop.  If he doesn't get Kurt in the end, there is no purpose to the character.  That is not the fault of Darren the actor but the writers,

 

 

Pretty much this. As I noted above, acting, much like most art, is extremely subjective. So certainly one can spend however long going back and forth on whether Darren was just the worst actor ever on the show or not. But ultimately, in my opinion, the failure of Blaine wasn't on Darren. Yes, he is by no means some great thespian but there is only so much a person can do when the writing is simply not there. Rising above one bad storyline is one thing but how does one rise above a character with virtually no identity, no proper characterization and background and whose motivations and feelings seem to change from episode to episode and plot to plot. As I noted once, I can believe Darren doesn't really know who Blaine is as a character but who can blame him when the writers have no freaking clue either. 

 

By the time they retconned his age in Season 3 (and YES, they did because the impression before was the older mentor to Kurt)

 

 

Wait, is there actually some debate that the writers retconned Blaine's age? I thought that was pretty much established. I can't remember the exact interview and which writer it was, I don't think it was Ryan Murphy but I'm positive one of them did later admit to the fact that Blaine's age was changed. And I know Darren made some snarky comment after S4 about Blaine suddenly being younger than Kurt which clearly showed that if nothing else he was under the impression that the character was a different age. 

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Some stans were insistent since Glee never specifically mentioned how old Blaine was that it wasn't retconning. SMH.  IOW it walked, talked and looked liked a duck but since they hadn't said it was a duck...

 

Of course they chose to ignore such things as Ryan Murphy describing Blaine in an interview as "an older mentor" to Kurt, etc. and more importantly how he was written as someone Kurt (initially) looked at as more experienced.

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Darren certainly got handicapped by the crap writing, but so did everyone else on the show. That doesn't explain why some (Lea, Cory, Chris, Naya, Jane, Dot, Matt) still managed to excel while Darren (along with Chord most notably) floundered.

 

The nice thing about having writers not giving you every single detail is that it gives a motivated actor a lot of room to build the character on his own. I just don't think that Darren was at all invested in making Blaine more than he appeared on the script pages and it showed with the way his character just veered all over the map. There was no core to him. Say what you will about Rachel, Kurt, Finn, etc... all of them had to act in ways that were odd at times but the core characters remained intact. That's due primarily to the strength of the actors.

 

But Blaine's core changed. He was at first, Kurt's older mentor..confident gay friend/love interest. IMO, Darren Criss was invested in that Blaine. He was excited about that Blaine. And that was where his best acting came. 

 

That was also the only time Blaine had an interesting motivation. Yes, it was still Kurt. But his motivation was to guide Kurt. Help him become confident in who he was. And to show him that people will accept him. 

 

But then Blaine's core changed. He became Kurt's equal. And was really just his prop. All Blaine was for was to be Kurt's love interest. 

 

And then it changed again. Blaine was now the younger needy part of the pairing. Because RIB needed someone to be at McKinley to keep the group in tact. 

 

The character has never actually been given any motivation outside of Kurt. And then the character goes and does everything in his power to screw that up. 

 

Rachel's ambition to be a broadway star has always defined her. It's defined her..both good and bad. Kurt's need to be accepted for his out of the box tendencies has always defined him. Quinn's need to be perfect (and even she has been a prop.), Santana's fear of being vulnerable..etc..

 

Blaine has never gotten that. He's such an underdeveloped character that it's silly to blame anyone but the writers. Because even when they made him a focus, they just added random personality traits (controlling, needy)..and they were only there to make a conflict with Blaine and Kurt..not for some bigger purpose. 

 

Truthfully, what Blaine is..is Rachel Berry without the ambition (I think, I don't really know..), but all of the negative aspects of her personality because of her ambition he has...except instead of seeing it displayed in a way to which she's working towards her goal..he's all about Kurt. And to make it worse, Blaine is a character that is popular/well liked/and always gets what he wants. (We've all known that person.) And the combination makes him hard to root for. And because the character has no motivation, nothing that drives his actions and has only been used as a prop..it would have been borderline impossible for Darren Criss to make more of what he did of Blaine. 

 

That all being said. I actually like Blaine. But I think that's completely because of Darren. Sure, he's done some shitty things. But that applies to all of the characters. But I see DC's charm, and he can do comedy well which helps for me. So I enjoy his scenes. It's just Blaine is a really flat character that we actually never got to know because he was always a prop. 

Edited by mercfan3
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I don't think anyone can and will deny that the writing crippled the character in many ways. Age changed, motivation changed, a lot was changed, retconned, exaggerated, etc.This is as far as the concept of the character goes, and it's a big challenge.

 

However, as far as the acting goes, the shortcomings that I see can't be attributed 100% to the writing. In my opinion, even if Darren couldn't have made more out of Blaine on a macro scale because of said character changes, on a micro scale, scene by scene - he very well could've. A scene where the character is angry out of jealousy shouldn't come out like he's manic or deranged. The over the top acting is his own problem, not a writing problem. Even in Season 2, the moment he was given scenes in which he wasn't the basic outlines of a mentor any more, but had to show more of a personality, the cracks appeared. For me this was the Lima Bean scene in BIOTA with Kurt where he had to play indignant, and he took me out of it.     

 

But Blaine's core changed. He was at first, Kurt's older mentor..confident gay friend/love interest. IMO, Darren Criss was invested in that Blaine. He was excited about that Blaine. And that was where his best acting came.

 

 

I agree that in this initial incarnation in Season 2 Darren was fine, acting the charming mentor type. It's interesting, though, that in the current season they've brought Blaine back to this more confident self, emancipating him from Kurt after the breakup and making him the feisty Warblers coach and even antagonist. So Darren should be able to embrace this back-to-basics 100% - and yet he still doesn't bring it as much as needed. For instance, in the Hurt Locker 1, he managed to fumble in three scenes, and was fine only in the auditorium scene. He still can't nail down the stronger dramatic scenes either, like the 601 breakup.

 

He had the same problem with his movie, where he played a different character - incidentally closer to his real self and somewhat resembling a laid-back "straight-man" type, even mentor type to Wiig's character. He was fine until the holdup scene at the end, where he had to play more to the absurdist comedy tone of the other characters instead of the naturalistic tone of his character, and he fumbled again.

 

So I definitely see the problems with the character and they are huge, but I also see his own acting issues regardless and outside of the awful writing. 

Edited by fakeempress
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Meh, we'll have to agree to disagree about fumbling. He's never bothered me in a scene (to the point where I go "bad job acting.") A few characters have. I won't get into it here though. But then again, I don't see him as OTT. 

 

As you said, when he's supposed to play the "straight" man, he's fine. But when he goes into an overdramatic comedy seen..he's suddenly OTT. I just think those scenes call for OTT. Glee is campy, dramatic, and..quite frankly..the only way to play it is OTT. And to me, Darren's not the most OTT of the bunch anyway. (Lea.) It's essentially a musical in a show.

 

I mean really, after he became younger than Kurt..his character has supposedly been impulsive, controlling, insecure and jealous. In a campy show..why would jealous Blaine be any different than the way Darren acted it?

 

Same thing for the scene in Imogene. That scene was full of campy, dark comedy craziness. I don't see why Darren being overdramatic in those situations is necessarily a bad thing. I think it's him interpreting the mood of the script. 

Edited by mercfan3
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I think we may have different concepts of what overacting is. For me, it's when the actor doesn't find the right tonal balance for what's required by the scene and deviates noticeably. If he goes overboard, it's overacting, if he does noticeably less than needed, it's underacting. An example of underacting can probably be the already mentioned "I love you" scene by Chris, at least according to the poster who brought it up. 

 

I happen to think there is good overacting and bad overacting. And since you mention Lea, she's an example of the former, for instance in Run Joey Run - it's what the scene requires, the overacting is intentional to bring the out comedy of the character's diva traits and lack of self-awareness how bad the video they did actually is. In Darren's case, there are enough examples where it's not intentional or required by the nature of the scene. Glee isn't a campy show 24/7, it has a lot of scenes that are meant to be earnest, for instance I don't see anything particularly campy in a breakup scene which isn't supposed to be done for laughs and doesn't require intentional overacting. The way I see it, in quite a few dramatic, and in some comedy scenes he's acting as if he's on stage, but it's different technique which can translate into OTT and overacting for the camera, because the camera picks up much more detail and augments it.

 

He's by no means the only one with acting issues, but this is his thread so I'm talking about him. Is he the worst - no, but we aren't limited to discussing only the worst or the best. 

Edited by fakeempress
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It all circles back to Ryan and company CANNOT write relationships. Even if Blaine's core changed to be Kurt's equal, it might have worked if RIB had centered on Klaine against the world, a variation of what they hinted at with "Prom Queen" where Blaine hesitantly but eventually supported Kurt in his Prom Queen debacle.

The problem was because he was popular, RIB never bothered to replace or flesh out Blaine's core , so he became a star appendage.

That ran smack into Kurt's persona as a strong resilent character, shaped in part because Kurt had to constantly overcomne adversity and struggle.

Bottom line is the writers never sat down and figured out how to make Blaine compatible and complimentary with Kurts personality. so instead they made him progressively weaker and insecure.

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See I have always thought Rachel was suppose to be an OTT character while Blaine never was one.  Rachel is descibed as living her life on the stage.  She uses her diva as a defense mechsim more so then not, like Kurt uses  sarcasm.  Blaine was the oppsite of that. So when they later tried to just plug him in to that role it never fit Blaine and IMO Darren never adjusted to this Blaine.    It didn't help when sometimes they put him in the same sitation as Rachel like joining all the after school groups and putting him in a Robin costume.  It pales in comparsion to this:

338700_1260310812420_full.jpg

Edited by tom87
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That's not what that comment was doing, in my reading. I don't really think it's Darren's publicist, of course.

 

For the record, while flattering, I’m not Darren’s publicist. (Ha Ha Ha.)
 

I think that almost everyone on the show got stuck with crap writing throughout the series, since I posit that RIB never had a story arc for the series envisioned.
 

Some actors manage to slightly elevate what they were given, others often floundered.  And some people are decently competent actors, but truly shine when there is someone there to elevate their performances, even when let down by the writing. (Of course, judgements on acting are almost entirely subjective, so YMMV.)
 

Using Darren as an example of someone in that last category, while I tend to enjoy almost any scene Blaine is in,  I find that his scenes with Rachel/ Lea Michele tend to be more watchable than, for instance, his scenes with Chord.

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See I have always seen Rachel suppose to be an OTT character while Blaine never was one.

 

Precisely.   

 

TBH, It's why Blaine was never quite  a fit to be a leader of New

Directions, he didn't have the personality for it.   When he was part of the "Diva" group with the women in S4, it fell flat because Blaine is essentially a "nice", passive character with no large OTT touches or flourishes.

 

He's actually ,more similar to Marley than Rachel.   Someone non confrontational and easy going.

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I think there are certainly scenes and moments one can point at as Darren not doing a good job and/or not conveying what the viewer thinks he was supposed to convey. And I've always said that I'd hardly consider Darren an amazing actor (but unpopular opinion, I don't think any of the younger cast is. I think some are good and show promise but that's it. If I had to pick one person I've been most impressed with, I'd actually say Lea even with the OTT singing faces) so I won't argue he's had moments throughout the show that's fallen flat. 

 

What I disagree with is the argument I've been reading since S4 and maybe even before that, that the failure of Blaine as a character in general fell on him and that he was just too mediocre as an actor to rise above bad material like other better and capable actors can do. And I as noted above, it is one thing to rise above one bad storyline and quite another to rise above virtually no characterization, no proper backstory,and inconsistent motivations that seem to change from plot to plot. For it to be argued that Darren just wasn't talented and good enough to fill in the blanks for his character is unfair in my opinion. 

 

Because again, it's not that Darren had one bad storyline as Blaine. It was as mercfan3 noted, the character's entire core changed. And I know many are quick to hand-wave the age thing but I do think it is important and it matters. Because if it is about being good and talented enough to "fill in the blank spaces" of the character and their motivations - how does one do that when who the character is changes completely or when the actions of the character make no sense. 

 

The Karofsky grossness is the perfect example of this. Say I'm Darren - how does one make sense or fill in the blanks of this when quite likely, just a season and some episodes ago, I'm sure he'd have never thought in a million years Blaine would be written as being in a relationship with Karofsky. So okay it happens and apparently if he's good enough he should fill in the blanks and make sense of it all.

 

But how - does one say that well maybe Kurt and Karofsky all this time had become casual acquaintances and so the past abuse and torture no longer counts? Except just last season, the writers had Blaine himself reference Karofsky's actions and not in a positive way so that's inconsistent with what the character said and did just some episodes before. Should it be played as Blaine remembering and knowing full well the torture Karofsky inflicted on Kurt and that it matters to Kurt but simply not giving a fuck?

 

Again, that's sort of inconsistent with what we saw of the character in Season 5 and is wildly inconsistent with someone who supposedly still cares about Kurt. Is it as some decided that he's doing it to punish Kurt for breaking up with him but considering the writers are clearly pushing for the reunion and playing up the idea they still love each other, that motivation doesn't fit. So it's like where to go with this and you can't depend on the hacks calling themselves writers because they don't even have any reason and sense for the storyline either, other than the simple fact that they knew it would get a reaction out of some viewers. 

 

TBH, It's why Blaine was never quite  a fit to be a leader of New Directions, he didn't have the personality for it.

 

 

He did, when he was older than Kurt and a confident guy. That guy I could completely buy running New Directions. But then he became younger and was apparently incredibly passive and needy.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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I think it's a shame the writers didn't use Blaine's "golden boy" status as the real source of differences between Blaine and Kurt.  Blaine's middle school dance trauma not withstanding, I think Blaine was--originally anyway--a character who expected to be accepted, expected to excel and and expected generally good things around the corner.  You could have had a character who experienced the unexpected as something positive; who didn't live life poised for the next blow.  Contrast that with Kurt whose mom died when he was young (although at an age that was anywhere between eight and ten depending upon what the writers felt like); he stuck out at school and had been bullied for it for a long time, his father had a heart attack, he didn't get into the school of his choice, his father got cancer, his step brother died,  etc. etc.  Kurt, it stands to reason, may not think there's something great just around the corner for him.

 

I think a real source of conflict between the two could have been those very, very different outlooks.  A happy-go-lucky guy like Blaine might get tired or frustrated with a more gloom-and-doom outlook; Blaine's positive outlook might have actually rubbed off on Kurt; Kurt might have been good support when Blaine actually did fail at something. 

 

Shockingly, the writers did not go that route.

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He did, when he was older than Kurt and a confident guy. That guy I could completely buy running New Directions. But then he became younger and was apparently incredibly passive and needy.

 

 

I hearya, but I think the joke about the Warblers in Season 2 was that they were nameless entities who simply fangirled Blaine.   There wasn't that much to them.

 

New Directions, at least the Original ND, were an eclectic mix of misfits, divas, and quarreling characters.  Rachel was an ambitious Diva, Finn the was the conflicted Quarterback, but they both had a weird "gravitas" in their personalities which made it plausible /believable they were the leaders of the group.   For all that many think Darren is charming, this personality as Blaine is quite tame.   That was one of the problems with Season 4, all the personalities had been stripped away from ND  (Kurt, Rachel, Finn, Santana, Mercedes, etc) and you a had a bunch of nice, ambition less and easy going characters so when Blaine became their quasi leader (along with Sam) with flashes of Marely, Ryder or even Jake in the role, it was just "nice" toothless characters taking turns.

 

Now I do agree there is NO fucking way for Blaine to play the Karofsky relationship.   It;s like the actor is trapped in a corner of solid ground surrounded by quicksand.  IF he shows he's madly in love with Karofsky, he's sunk.. So Darren has optioned to play it light and almost like a joke, which again shows what a cypher Blaine is as a character.

 

I have do doubt by the time Glee is over Blaine will reiterate yet again  over and over how Kurt is his eternal soulmate but the inconsistencies in the character's actions make it toothless.

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For the record, while flattering, I’m not Darren’s publicist. (Ha Ha Ha.)

My comment was to Higgs, not you. Sorry if it wasn't obvious. 

 

 

For all that many think Darren is charming, this personality as Blaine is quite tame.   That was one of the problems with Season 4, all the personalities had been stripped away from ND...

They tried their hand at making Blaine more "diva" in the power struggle SL with Finn in Season 3, but it was really brief and went nowhere afterwards. This could've been used for more conflict and SL. 

 

 

The Karofsky grossness is the perfect example of this. Say I'm Darren - how does one make sense or fill in the blanks of this when quite likely, just a season and some episodes ago, I'm sure he'd have never thought in a million years Blaine would be written as being in a relationship with Karofsky. So okay it happens and apparently if he's good enough he should fill in the blanks and make sense of it all.

I actually think he's fine in this sense, and making a good choice of playing it as a rebound, no nonsense relationship as opposed to the "soulmates" with Kurt. While the story is ludicrous and gross, I noticed he for instance modified his physical acting to show the difference. I don't think the actor must always make complete sense of any crap they're given and it's all on them if they don't succeed, but as with this example, there are ways to mitigate. Max Adler is doing even better with the Karofsky makeover, I can say he's quite convincing actingwise. 

 

But when it comes to scenes like the breakup with Kurt, Karofsky wasn't in the picture to explain Darren's OTT acting, so again, not all can be excused with the storylines.

Edited by fakeempress
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I actually think he's fine in this sense, and making a good choice of playing it as a rebound, no nonsense relationship as opposed to the "soulmates" with Kurt.

 

As opposed the OTT angst ridden way he sang "Against all odds" to Sam in "Guilty Pleasures".   Wow, talk about bad acting choices.    Darren knew that his character (by then) was going to get back together with Kurt and yet he played AAO the same feverish  way he sang the acoustic Teenage Dream.   Lord knows the Gee  writers are shitty but sometimes acting choices make them even worse.

Edited by caracas1914
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The problem I saw with Blaine is that in season 4 they gave him both Finn and Rachel's roles in ND.  He was the "new Rachel" (remember he won that contest) in that he was the lead performer of the group and he was the new Finn in that he was the one who consistently rallied the troops.  Basically he was more of a Mary Sue/Marty Stu than either Rachel or Finn ever were because he was both of them.  I think even Daniel Day-Lewis would have troubles keeping that role from being annoying.  Then on top of that you had his ever changing characterization (he's older, no wait he's younger; he's confident, no wait he's a needy mess).  

Edited by camussie
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I really think that's what it was.

 

When he won "new rachel" the writers tried their damndest to make him actually like rachel.

 

So he got all of her flaws. Her insecurities. Her control freak tendencies. All of the solos. A majority of the screen time. He got absolutely everything that made Rachel annoying. 

 

But he didn't get the other side. The side that made rachel complex and sympathetic. Rachel is an underdog. Blaine has always been a golden boy who gets what he wants easily. (They actually make a point of this.) We don't even know what his motivation is, other than Kurt. Which isn't a motivation. That's a love interest. (one that he likes to screw up.) He's, cannon wise, considered very good looking. (He's always the one to get the male leads for the romantic parts, Rachel and Tina wanted to make out with him, when men are interested in one of Kurt and Blaine, it tends to be Blaine...etc..sometimes it's flat out said.) Basically..he's got Rachel's neuroticism, with Quinn's easy life pass. That is not a likable character..no matter what any actor did. 

 

Then add in the ever changing age factor and personality..and meryl streep couldn't have made anything out of Blaine. 

 

I don't think we have different definitions of overacting, btw. I just think that, for the most part...Darren has picked his emotions well. He tends to be campy during dramatic/emotional scenes..because I think that's what Darren thinks the mood calls for. And I agree with him. When it comes to romance, this show is campy. Particularly because "younger than Kurt" Blaine is supposed to be overdramatic. (Like Rachel.) 

 

Like I said originally..Naya, Chris, and Darren were really the only reason I continued to watch Glee off and on (and Adam Lambert kept me into it when I almost quit..). And I don't dislike Blaine, really. Because I find him funny, because Darren makes him funny. I just see the flaws and limitations and flatness of his character, and I understand Darren's acting choices because of it. 

Edited by mercfan3
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hen add in the ever changing age factor and personality..and meryl streep couldn't have made anything out of Blaine.

I don't think we have different definitions of overacting, btw. I just think that, for the most part...Darren has picked his emotions well. He tends to be campy during dramatic/emotional scenes..because I think that's what Darren thinks the mood calls for. And I agree with him. When it comes to romance, this show is campy. Particularly because "younger than Kurt" Blaine is supposed to be overdramatic. (Like Rachel.)

I commented on the age in the Acting thread, so I'l repeat myself here that the age retconning was just a lazy way to keep Blaine at MKH one more year, and that's the only reason it was ever mentioned. I don't think that in itself the age required such a huge acting adjustment that one had to be Meryl Streep to save the character. Other kids' ages also fluctuated due to plot, and for some it was a surprise they were among the first to graduate. 

 

If Darren is campy during dramatic/ emotional scenes because he thinks that's the mood, then I have to question his judgment because a lot of those scenes weren't campy at all, but serious and earnest. I'll repeat there was nothing campy in the breakup scenes for instance, that required campy acting. By your logic, since the show is campy, not only Darren but every single one of the actors has to overact all the time and be campy, which isn't the case. I also don't get why the "overdramatic" Blaine is due to his becoming younger. I don't think age was directly involved here at all. 

Edited by fakeempress
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I don't think I started questioning Darren's acting choices until Guilty Pleasures when I genuinely thought that Blaine was 100% over Kurt after his Sam serenade. I was at least somewhat following the character at that point (as much as you can follow anyone on Glee), but that made the engagement even more of a WTF? to me. It made it seem like Blaine didn't want to propose out of love, but because he just didn't want to be single anymore, although if he could've dated Sam he would've taken that opportunity. It was very confusing. In retrospect, I do tend to really notice that Darren constantly looks like he's acting, whereas other people do seem a lot more natural on screen (even in the over the top stuff. Lea gets to be over the top a lot, but I don't end up thinking "this is Lea acting" so much as "this is Rachel doing whatever"). However, I understand we're watching Glee and not Breaking Bad, so I can usually overlook bad acting, so long as I understand what the characters are supposed to be saying (and this is why I'm sometimes harsher on Chris than Darren, even though Chris is a better actor generally. Basically whenever Chris is doing a Klaine scene, I have no flipping clue what he's supposed to be thinking and I feel like fans twist it into whatever they want it to be. At least with Darren, the weird Sam stuff in season 4 aside, I know what Blaine is SUPPOSED to be thinking or acting or how it's supposed to come off. Also, I hold Chris to a higher standard because I think can do better). 

 

I ultimately agree that what hurt Blaine the most was the writing. As has been covered, he really has nothing going for him story-wise or character-wise other than his relationship with Kurt. And I really can't care about a relationship or a character where someone has no purpose other than to be the love interest (and I guess for Blaine to sing a lot). And his personally did seem to shift drastically in season 4, and at first I thought it could be in an interesting way, but ultimately, it went nowhere. 

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Also, I find the argument about Glee being a campy show not a strong excuse. There was a huge difference between the way Santana was crying in Silly Love Songs, which was for comedic effect, and when she was crying at the locker when she was admitting she was in love with Brittany. There's also Rachel's overdramatic singing crying and her actual crying. When Blaine is supposed to be legitimately crying, it does tend to come off as the comedic crying, which is flawed, and as we have other people on the show do real crying (also something Kurt does all the time), I don't think there's evidence to support that. 

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But I can't remember a time where Blaine has actually been earnest..or been in a serious emotional/dramatic scene. He doesn't get the emotional/serious scenes in the PSA's because who cares how Blaine feels if it doesn't have anything to do with Kurt is unimportant. 

 

Breakup and romance on this show are not earnest. They are campy and borderline silly. 

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Breakup and romance on this show are not earnest. They are campy and borderline silly. 

 

Seriously? Every breakup in The Break-Up was dramatic and serious. They were not played for laughs at all. The Brittana and Finchel ones were actually really well-done, and included some of my favorite moments for all 4 of those characters. The Klaine one wasn't supposed to be funny, and the only thing even slightly funny about it were Darren's ridiculous try-hard cry-faces. Otherwise, on the page, nothing about Klaine's breakup was supposed to be played for laughs.

Edited by Ceeg
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Breakup and romance on this show are not earnest. They are campy and borderline silly.

 

I'd hardly call the scene where Blaine confesses his infidelity to Kurt as campy or borderline silly.  I get that you viewed it that way, but that you did view it that way is a huge failure of the actors and director because I don't think you were supposed to find that scene funny.  The same goes with the scene at the train station when Finn and Rachel parted.  I get that you thought it was funny, but I don't think you were supposed to.

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Seriously? Every breakup in The Break-Up was dramatic and serious. They were not played for laughs at all. The Brittana and Finchel ones were actually really well-done, and included some of my favorite moments for all 4 of those characters. The Klaine one wasn't supposed to be funny, and the only thing even slightly funny about it were Darren's ridiculous try-hard cry-faces. Otherwise, on the page, nothing about Klaine's breakup was supposed to be played for laughs.

I agree.  I think some of the best acting on the show was in those break up scenes.   Heather isn't a great actor either but her crying when she and Santana broke up was a point.  And Rachel is particularly good when she finally stands up to Finn.    The Wemma one was unnecessary but not campy.

Edited by tom87
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I agree. I think some of the best acting on the show was in those break up scenes. Heather isn't a great actor either but her crying when she and Santana broke up was a point. And Rachel

is particularly good when she finally stands up to

Finn. The Wemma one was unnecessary but

not campy.

The Wemma one was small potatoes compared to the others(as it was just a fight and not a break-up), but the actors still sold it and made it realistic.

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I agree about Darren having these weird faces that can take me out of a scene. The first time I saw it was his argument with Kurt when he told Kurt he was going to go on the date with Rachel. His anger in that scene seemed to from zero to sixty in a heartbeat and I had a lot of trouble focusing on much of what he was saying with the very dramatic facial expressions (only person worst than him there might be Ian Somerholder and his eye twitching). I actually couldn't figure out if maybe that's just how Darren looks when he gets mad in real life, so it may not even be something he's conscious of or can even really control. But yeah it's unfortunate because I remember thinking during that whole scene that he looked like a crazy person, much like how he did when he went off on Elliot. 

 

That being said, a few unpopular opinions - I thought he did just fine in the breakup episode. I know some talked about his "faces" while he performed the acoustic Teenage Dream but I honestly didn't think it was that bad and I thought it accomplished what the scene was supposed to. Kurt apparently figures out quickly something is wrong because of how intense and emotional Blaine gets singing the song and I thought that was captured well. Also, when he admits to cheating, I know there were many who felt Blaine was blaming Kurt and Darren played the scene like Blaine was actually angry at Kurt but I didn't see that. I thought the character came across as a combination of sad, frustrated and desperate. He was frustrated trying to explain why he did what he did and desperate to have Kurt understand and forgive him. I honestly thought both actors did fine.

 

My other huge unpopular opinion is the "Against All Odds" performance. I get the argument many make that Darren played it too intensely because Blaine was supposed to, at that point, still be in love with Kurt. Fair enough... However, while Blaine may have still loved Kurt, he very clearly at the time had some very confused feelings about Sam and I think that was the point of the scene. They had become very close friends and Blaine developed an attraction to him that was confusing and wrong in his eyes because well one, Sam is straight and two, his friend. The way I saw the performance is that the deeper into the song Blaine got, the more all the confusing feelings he had for Sam, that he was clearly trying to repress, came out. Which fits for this show where essentially people express themselves and their feelings through song? And I liked how they played the aftermath of the scene where he and Sam acknowledged the crush/romantic feelings, with a clear understanding that nothing was going to happen because Sam is straight and they moved on. 

 

I sort of get what many were harping on at that time - that how could Blaine feel that way if he still loved Kurt and supposedly regretted cheating on him. But I never saw the two as mutually exclusive. Blaine developing a crush on someone else didn't negate his regret about cheating on Kurt because putting their getting back together or not or still having feelings for each other or not, fundamentally, the problem with his cheating was that he hurt Kurt and I do think he was always sorry for that. And as for having feelings for someone else, Kurt started dating Adam when he was clearly still conflicted about his feelings for Blaine. It seemed that some felt that because Blaine was the one who cheated, it was only acceptable for him to pine and pursue Kurt and so his developing feelings for Sam did not fit and make sense and I never agreed with that.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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So I guess the Shooting Star episode with the school shooting was suppose to be campy?

My problem with Darrens acting is he plays scenes and not character, Kurt,Rachel, Santana, and Finn maY have done WTF things on the show and the actors weren't always making the best acting choices always but i could usually see glimpses of their core character shining through, not with Darren/Blaine at his worst.

Edited by caracas1914
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And I think Darren kind of has to play scenes and not character because Blaine doesn't really have a core and his actions are scene-based as well, not character-based. Not that he's especially great or anything, but I'd argue Rachel and Kurt at the least are much more consistently written characters. Finn, not so much, especially in Season 2. But I think people forget, because the whole great Finchel debate essentially stopped after Cory's tragic death, just how loathed the character was during some of these arcs. And for a portion of the audience he never recovered. Finn still had his fans, me amongst them, but even I was aware that I was defending the character more on the basis of Cory the actor than what was actually on page. And nobody could make sense of the great Finn/Quinn debacle of S2, and it absolutely wasn't clear from the episodes whether or not Finn a) really did love Quinn and never felt a spark with Rachel b) was chasing his former glory c) was so hurt by Rachel he shut off his feelings for her d) was simply an enourmous douchebag the entire time.

 

As good an actor as Cory was, even he couldn't salvage that mess, because I really felt what Finn felt or said changed from episode to episode and I had no clue what the writers were going for. That's how I've always felt about Blaine, except Blaine has never gotten many of Finn's redeemable moments, because the writers either never realised Blaine needed those too, if they were going to have him screw up so often, or they just didn't care.

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But I can't remember a time where Blaine has actually been earnest..or been in a serious emotional/dramatic scene. He doesn't get the emotional/serious scenes in the PSA's because who cares how Blaine feels if it doesn't have anything to do with Kurt is unimportant. 

 

Breakup and romance on this show are not earnest. They are campy and borderline silly. 

I can't understand how it's possible to say Blaine hasn't been earnest or been in a serious emotional / dramatic scene. I have to ask, what is your understanding of "ernest" and "emotional / dramatic"?

Blaine has been in lots of serious or emotional scenes. This has nothing to do with the view that he hasn't gotten proper character development or proper stories outside the relationship with Kurt. A serious scene is a serious scene regardless what it's about. If you can't see the breakups as serious, I'll give more examples: the phone talk with Kurt in Thanksgiving, the two (verbal) fights with Kurt in Tested, the fight and the reconciliation in The First Time - these are all meant as serious scenes and there's nothing campy about them. 

 

 

And I think Darren kind of has to play scenes and not character because Blaine doesn't really have a core and his actions are scene-based as well, not character-based.

That's what I was driving at when I talked about how Darren could've done more for Blaine on a micro scale, scene by scene. If there is no core to the character and he can't stick to one he made up for himself, then at least he can play the emotions that a scene by itself requires. If the character is earnestly angry in the scene, play earnestly angry regardless of the motive; just play the emotion. This is one way to ground a character which has been failed by the writing and continuity on a macro scale. That's why I mentioned he's taken me out of quite a few scenes because sometimes he plays the emotion as intended, and other times he overacts with unintentional effect for the scenes. 

 

 

My other huge unpopular opinion is the "Against All Odds" performance. I get the argument many make that Darren played it too intensely because Blaine was supposed to, at that point, still be in love with Kurt. Fair enough... However, while Blaine may have still loved Kurt, he very clearly at the time had some very confused feelings about Sam and I think that was the point of the scene.

My problems with that scene is that it was very reminiscent of the Teenage Dream redux scene. And in general Blaine was supposedly in love and trying to get Kurt back, while at the same time developed a crush on Sam, but I saw no distinction between these apparently different feelings in the acting. 

Edited by fakeempress
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I can't cogently discuss Darren's acting because I haven't been able to watch Blaine (sans Rachel) for a very long time. Now some may think my actions speak louder than words, but not in this case. I realized Blaine was being used to create what little comedy remained on the show, that his clothes and hair style were chosen to that end, and that he was being directed to do virtually everything people complain about. And it's not just him. How differently would we have perceived the Unholy Trinity if they hadn't always been in their Cheerios uniforms with their blond hair pulled back, Kurt dressed and coiffed like Chris, Rachel more demure and fresh-faced, Artie not nerded up, Sue in a Hillary power suit. Clothes may not make the man, but they sure can make the character.

Edited by Higgs
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Kurt,Rachel, Santana, and Finn maY have done WTF things on the show and the actors weren't always making the best acting choices always but i could usually see glimpses of their core character shining through

 

 

And I think Darren kind of has to play scenes and not character because Blaine doesn't really have a core and his actions are scene-based as well, not character-based.

 

 

Yeah basically what Katway said. The whole issue about their core character is essentially what I've been saying for multiple posts - Blaine has no core character. Blaine is and always was a plot point and when the writers decided to keep him around, they never gave a shit about developing him as a character in his own right and so he remained a plot point. That's why he was the human jukebox after all for much of S3 where he spent most of that season sitting in the back of the choir room with Kurt and breaking into random songs. Even the Sebastian storyline which was supposed to be a relationship speed-bump for him and Kurt and Sebastian supposedly was interested in him, it really became about Kurt and Sebastian. Blaine almost lost an eye and he had no agency in that storyline and instead it became about Kurt taking the high road again. 

 

As noted, yes, Kurt, Rachel, Finn and Santana all had bad storyines just like everyone on this show but fundamentally these characters remained who they were from the beginning. Santana is a tough, bitchy and downright mean person at times who has her insecurities and sometimes hides it behind her tough exterior and that has never changed. Her entire coming out storyline, even with the missteps from the writers, stayed completely true to her character. Even with bad storylines or really lack of screentime in the last few seasons, how has Kurt really changed at all from the core of who always was? He's strong, a fighter, loves the people he loves and is fiercely loyal to them. He gets beaten down and gets back up. Finn never really strayed from that small town kid who just wanted nothing more than to not be a Lima Loser and find his path. These characters, bad storylines aside, all stayed consistent to what they were. As I said above, with Blaine it wasn't about rising above a bad storyline or two but somehow having to rise above no characterization, no consistent motivations, no consistent character identity, etc.

 

But I think people forget, because the whole great Finchel debate essentially stopped after Cory's tragic death, just how loathed the character was during some of these arcs. And for a portion of the audience he never recovered.

 

 

This exactly is what I said above. As I noted, I still appreciated Cory's acting but I hated Finn during that Quinn redux debacle. And let's not even mention when barely a half a second after he broke up with Quinn, he seemed frustrated that Rachel wasn't rushing back into his arms even after he told the girl she didn't give him any fireworks like Quinn. That whole thing was a mess and Cory tried, I know he did, but it was still a mess from beginning to end. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Like I said before, Blaine was never developed or fleshed out as a character. However;

Blaine had a "core" as limited as it was, which was that Kurt was the love of his life. IT wasn't much, but it was something an actor could build on even a bare bones scaffold. That never changed, but in scenes where the actor had to display ambivalence or conflicting emotions about THAT core, Darren couldnt follow through.

Edited by caracas1914
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Yes loving Kurt was the core of his character and in S3 the writers had him saying that just texting another guy was cheating (which on some level it was). However, fast-forward to barely three episodes into the fourth season (after he was the one chosen to give Kurt a big speech about needing to leave Lima and move on) and he's written as having sex with someone else and not just anyone else, some random nobody he picked up off of Facebook. Which fits perfectly into his being nothing more than a plot point.

 

The writers wanted to break the pairing up, Ryan was all tingly at blowing up all three pairings in one episode and so Blaine got designated to be the cheating fuck-up of that episode. And if one believes that loving Kurt was the core of his character and essentially all he was - then where does the character go when that essential part of his character has been blown so badly to bits? How does the character ever come back from that when the one thing that was supposed to be essential to his character gets ruined? And as we all clearly saw, for many, he didn't come back from it. He became then and always will be to some, nothing more than "greasy Facebook fucker."

 

And then it continued. Ryan Murphy decided he wanted his big, grand gay proposal - make Blaine the tone-deaf, moronic idiot who proposes to the ex he cheated on when they're barely back together. And they need "adult reality" problems in NY, Blaine is not just needy but borderline creepy and stifling. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Oh I don't disagree with what you're saying as to Blaine's actions, but, for example, say at the "Break Up" (5.03: the FIRST one LOL) , when Blaine is telling Kurt he's been with someone else and explaining that Kurt wasn't there when Blaine felt lonely. The hurt and devastation and betrayal that Kurt feels is palpable the way Chris plays the scene. IN the episode you can see Kurt's growing fear that something is not quite right and there is a building internal terror there.

Blaine's confession falls flat and I attribute some of that to Darren's acting choices. His bad acting makes a WTF action by the character even worse because we are suppose to feel that Blaine is horrified over what he's done ( the OTT breakdown singing "Teenage Age Dream" sort of sets it up) but when he has to deliver THE ACTUAL LINES, it's just not good. Blaine comes across as whiny and self involved, because Darren can't convey that the depths of what Blaine is suppose to feel. That is crucial because Chris is showing us how blown away Kurt is and his (Blaine's ) actions already are so bad, so the actor, fairly or not, has to try to salvage *something* for his character.

That scene is suppose to be "the money shot" as far as acting.

There is nothing in his line delivery, and the character actually sounds more shallow and petulant when I know the writers are going for that what he's done is tearing him apart and he's oh so sorry and still loves Kurt more than anything else. It's distracting but it's because Darren can't pull conflicting emotions in one scene, not the way Naya, Jayma, Cory, Chris and Lea can.

That is why I can't entirely blame all the fault of the character's failure on the writers and not the actor somewhat on ocassions.

I never had the impression that Cory wasn't up to the acting even with Finn's shitty actions. I actually thought his going back to Quinn some of the scenes had some of Cory's best acting TBH.

Edited by caracas1914
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