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One thing I haven’t been able to glean from the reporting is what the hell the Washington Football Team has to do with any of this.

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5 minutes ago, mojoween said:

One thing I haven’t been able to glean from the reporting is what the hell the Washington Football Team has to do with any of this.

The investigation was into the horrible front office practices of the Taters and since a lot of the emails were with Bruce Allen, this is just a nice bonus to the more awful things they've found out about the team.  Hopefully, Little Napoleon Snyder will somehow be forced to sell.  

 

I know, but a girl can dream... 

Edited by ebk57
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2 hours ago, mojoween said:

Wait, who are we talking about here…Baker, or Gronk?

Yes.

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31 minutes ago, Carey said:

...While Jon Gruden couldn't undo what he did, and while no one's going to confess to that stuff, maybe don't post that stuff in the first place? ....

When sociologists look back at this time in history, they will say that so many clueless idiots couldn't grasp that what you do on digital media doesn't go away.   The sense of entitlement that in 2010 Gruden could say such blatantly racist things "among friends" just reinforces that more things change, the more they stay the same.

Edited by caracas1914
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2 hours ago, mojoween said:

Wait, who are we talking about here…Baker, or Gronk?

Baker!

Byeeeeeeee, Jon, miss you like a case of gonorrhea!

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1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

You know League wanted him gone because he insulted Goodell.  The one thing he will not tolerate is not being deified.

I sorta think maybe Mark Davis wanted him gone too to best be off the hook in terms of $60,000,000.00

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4 minutes ago, mojoween said:

One thing I haven’t been able to glean from the reporting is what the hell the Washington Football Team has to do with any of this.

The emails were to Bruce Allen who was with the WFT at the time and as ebk57 said, they came to light during investigations into workplace misconduct within the WFT organization.  He and Gruden were together at the Raiders during Gruden's first time as head coach there, and they were together at Tampa, both getting fired after the 2008 season.  

I won't miss Gruden and his smirk.  He always struck me as someone who was confident he was the smartest guy in the room.  He's definitely proven that's not true.  What a putz.  

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3 hours ago, stealinghome said:

The best description I've ever heard of Gronk was something like if there is a patron saint of meatheads, it's Gronk. And I generally like Gronk, but that is oh so accurate.

Though I will confess that when I read about how he likes playing in Tampa Bay because he gets to hang out with his mom (who lives like 2 hours away in FL) on Mondays, my heart melted a little.

Gronk does a lot of charity work. The Patriots website described all the visits he did to local schools and the Make a Wish Foundation. His Twitter is quiet during the season.

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58 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Urban Meyer raising a beer to Gruden.

Urban was being mocked today for his goal of 250 passing yards and 250 rushing yards of offense. Whatever reprieve Meyer got with this Gruden stuff is pretty much over once Gruden exits stage left.

While this should open up an investigation into the toxicity of some coaches, execs and owners in the NFL, what they really want is to appoint a new coach and forget Gruden existed.

24 minutes ago, Carey said:

While Jon Gruden couldn't undo what he did, and while no one's going to confess to that stuff, maybe don't post that stuff in the first place? 

He didn't post it; he emailed it to a like minded individual.  And I imagine this kind of culture has gone unabated for eons.  He just happened to be emailing someone at a team that went too far, even for the NFL, and got swept up in an investigation into that team. 

Just think about that.  We wouldn't have known if there hadn't been an investigation into the WFT which we still know so little about.  But Gruden didn't just insult women, black people and gay people, he insulted the other owners and Goodell so he gets to be the sacrificial lamb.

The fact that there were more emails makes Gruden's reaction to a question about the incident in his post-game presser all that more interesting to me.  I didn't expect a great apology but it came off as rather defensive with his "I don't have a racist bone in my body".  He knew by then that more emails were going to be coming out.

I'm still trying to process this whole weekend.  For some reason, one email came out on Friday to let everyone react to it.  Saturday was the whole trying to put it into context that it was a decade old email.  Sunday, it felt like every NFL partner brought out their black analysts to give their thoughts and I think only one (Randy Moss) really went hard on him.  Mike Tirico and Tony Dungy on Saturday Night Football on NBC basically forgave him.

And then we get what we get today which it sounds like many people had at least heard rumors about.  You aren't going to tell your analysts before they go on TV to issue "bygones" based on their experiences with him that they might want to wait until they hear the rest of the story? 

In addition, I believe the black players or coworkers who worked with Gruden and said they didn't see anything was off with him.  It just goes to show you how well racists and sexists can hide their true colors when they feel they need to but show their real selves when they don't think they'll be seen.  So often, women or people of color get instincts about people but don't have the hard evidence because they don't have access to all the emails or conversations.

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ESPN all clutching their pearls over the Gruden emails.  He was an ESPN employee when he sent them 

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27 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

The fact that there were more emails makes Gruden's reaction to a question about the incident in his post-game presser all that more interesting to me.  I didn't expect a great apology but it came off as rather defensive with his "I don't have a racist bone in my body".  He knew by then that more emails were going to be coming out.

I said this to Mr. ebk a while ago.  How could he say the stuff he said over the weekend - it was a long time ago and I don't remember sending that email - when he must have known the whole thing would blow up.  Ugh.

 

 

 

Meanwhile - yay Ravens!!!

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Lamar throws for  4 TD's and 440 yards passing.   He won it with his arm.  

Or course he almost lost it with his hands (one fumble at 1 yard line and one near fumble)

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The Colts and the Dolphins are such interesting case studies. They’ve done so much right in recent years in personnel, hiring coaches, and team building. And in both cases they might be undone by seemingly botching the QB position. 

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10 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

The Colts and the Dolphins are such interesting case studies. They’ve done so much right in recent years in personnel, hiring coaches, and team building. And in both cases they might be undone by seemingly botching the QB position. 

Seriously......did you watch this game?  Have you watched the colts this year?   

The colts problems have almost ZERO to do with Carson Wentz.  This season and especially this game.  

If that is your opinion, you either don't like Wentz and will blame him for Evey loss or you are listening to national talking heads that dont actually follow the colts and are trying for clickbait or cheap headlines. 

Carson Wentz TWICE in the 4th quarter drove down the field and out them in position to win with a FG.  Missed them both.  Block and wide left. 

Injuries, secondary, lack of a pass rush, poor play by Leonard poor defensive play calling, off the top of my head all much more critical this year than Carson Wentz.

 

Edited by DrSpaceman73
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1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

While this should open up an investigation into the toxicity of some coaches, execs and owners in the NFL, what they really want is to appoint a new coach and forget Gruden existed.

Exactly, because the league is made up of Grudens; this disgusting talk - written and verbal - is a regular thing amongst themselves, but they want to make a production out of acting on this one perpetrator of the entrenched sexism, racism, and homophobia now that a written record is out there, playing it off as some horrible anomaly they quickly booted and moved past.

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59 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

He didn't post it; he emailed it to a like minded individual.

That's what I meant.  Sorry about that!

 

It's sorta like a direct message or something private.  While doing it that way keeps it out of the public, there's no guarantee.  

The president of my company once gave t he best advice ages ago, and it still holds true.  Don't do or say stuff in private or in a place you think is private that you'd regret and feel awful & embarrassed for if it's done or said in front of whomever.

We're all guilty, if not most of us.  Probably not to this degree; on the other hand, at least most of us will not be in a big time spot where someone like Jon Gruden would go down or have a chance at going down over something done in the past (private or public)

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2 hours ago, Carey said:

The game pretty much had a Superbowl 51 vibe to it

This game had a much happier ending than Super Bowl 51.

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Damn Colts! You had to go for that 2pt conversion.  

To all those people who try to make excuses for Gruden that those emails were 10 yrs ago, I say so what!?  That wasn’t the 1960s.  In the 21st century you damn well know better what you’re saying or joking abt.  And to put it in writing?!  I’m sorry but his fat ass deserves everything he gets.

Hubby and I think he resigned so MD doesn’t have to pay him.  Now I’m sure there’s some clause that gives him a payout if he quits, but nothing like the standard firing fee.

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7 hours ago, Bastet said:

but they want to make a production out of acting on this one perpetrator of the entrenched sexism, racism, and homophobia now that a written record is out there, playing it off as some horrible anomaly they quickly booted and moved past.

Like I said, his one major sin was insulting Goodell.   

Also, they went after a coach so they could hide the fact that these emails came out while investigating an OWNER.    Funny how we are not seeing Snyder emails or even Bruce Allen's responses to Gruden saying these things.   Gruden wouldn't have said it to someone he didn't think would be responsive to hearing it.   Bruce Allen was part of the toxicity at WFT but thanks to the League making this about Gruden no one is talking about it.  No one it talking about how there is NO written report about the whole WFT situation because "HEY LOOK HERE ARE SOME EMAILS."  It was a win-win for Goodell who fucked up ANOTHER investigation into a major problem in the League.   he got rid of Gruden for saying bad things about him AND no one is asking why Snyder is still allowed to be an Owner.

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8 hours ago, Bastet said:

Exactly, because the league is made up of Grudens; this disgusting talk - written and verbal - is a regular thing amongst themselves, but they want to make a production out of acting on this one perpetrator of the entrenched sexism, racism, and homophobia now that a written record is out there, playing it off as some horrible anomaly they quickly booted and moved past.

Yeah. What do all the other emails from ALLLLLLL the other NFL-adjacent people say?  Don’t tell me Jerry Jones doesn’t have some shit he would rather stay hidden.

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I don't think the following is happening since Gruden lacks a social media presence: You wonder if Jon has anything that would more or less bring down the top people in the NFL.  In other words, would he have the replies toward some of his offensive comments?

While I don't think we'd get to a point where he'd disclose it, that is a possibility.  Furthermore, it might cost 60 Million to hit that send button!

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10 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Seriously......did you watch this game?  Have you watched the colts this year?   

The colts problems have almost ZERO to do with Carson Wentz.  This season and especially this game.  

If that is your opinion, you either don't like Wentz and will blame him for Evey loss or you are listening to national talking heads that dont actually follow the colts and are trying for clickbait or cheap headlines. 

Carson Wentz TWICE in the 4th quarter drove down the field and out them in position to win with a FG.  Missed them both.  Block and wide left. 

Injuries, secondary, lack of a pass rush, poor play by Leonard poor defensive play calling, off the top of my head all much more critical this year than Carson Wentz.

 

I feel so awful for poor Rodrigo Blankenship. His injury was obviously affecting his kicking.

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36 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I feel so awful for poor Rodrigo Blankenship. His injury was obviously affecting his kicking.

Yep.

Speaking of injuries, I realized I was wearing a Giants hoodie this morning while I was walking the dog and became concerned. Fortunately, somehow I managed not to step in a hole, sprain my ankle, tear a knee ligament, and suffer a concussion.

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14 hours ago, ebk57 said:

I said this to Mr. ebk a while ago.  How could he say the stuff he said over the weekend - it was a long time ago and I don't remember sending that email - when he must have known the whole thing would blow up.  Ugh.

 

 

 

Meanwhile - yay Ravens!!!

That's the thing.  It turns out he sent many emails over 7 or 8 years that contained homophobic, racist and misogynistic remarks.  The most recent was just 2-3 years ago.  If Gruden really doesn't recall sending those sorts of emails over many years, he needs evaluated for memory loss.

Just because this info came out about Gruden, I wouldn't be quick to presume that the WFT and the  ownership are going to avoid getting in trouble, too.  If Gruden, who wasn't even the focus of the WFT investigation, managed to have many questionable emails dug up, it seems to me that the front office of the WFT has got to be worried that the search is going to be way too thorough.  It is my hope that this just means that, when the full report comes out on the WFT and the front office culture there, it is going to be a doozy.  I seriously doubt that Gruden was the only idiot in the NFL sending ugly emails.  

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6 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

It is my hope that this just means that, when the full report comes out on the WFT and the front office culture there, it is going to be a doozy. 

The NFL announced over the summer the results of the investigation.   Snyder was suspended "indefinitely" and there was NO written report made.   The emails were leaked to be a distraction from the real problem (owners) and to get rid of a problematic guy.   Florio of PFT is opining the NFL is holding the emails to do more strategic leaks if they want to get rid of someone.  

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17 hours ago, mojoween said:

Bye Gruden.  Don’t be a racist, misogynistic, bigot next time, mmk?

How depressing is it that I really wouldn't write off there being a "next time" for him. Even with all this, and all the condemnation from the NFL media now they really can't defend him, I still don't think the door is closed for a middle-aged white guy with friends in powerful places.

16 hours ago, ebk57 said:

The investigation was into the horrible front office practices of the Taters and since a lot of the emails were with Bruce Allen, this is just a nice bonus to the more awful things they've found out about the team.  Hopefully, Little Napoleon Snyder will somehow be forced to sell.

Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder are embarrassments to the league, and it doesn't surprise me at all that a lot of these emails were apparently to Allen. Nor, sadly, does it surprise me that one of Allen's emails was sending coerced topless shots of cheerleaders to his buddy.

This investigation had better end with a lot more heads rolling.

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm still trying to process this whole weekend.  For some reason, one email came out on Friday to let everyone react to it.  Saturday was the whole trying to put it into context that it was a decade old email.  Sunday, it felt like every NFL partner brought out their black analysts to give their thoughts and I think only one (Randy Moss) really went hard on him.  Mike Tirico and Tony Dungy on Saturday Night Football on NBC basically forgave him.

And then we get what we get today which it sounds like many people had at least heard rumors about.  You aren't going to tell your analysts before they go on TV to issue "bygones" based on their experiences with him that they might want to wait until they hear the rest of the story?

I haven't seen what a lot of the talking heads have said, but the guys on Good Morning Football were very damning of Gruden this morning. Pete Schrager and Kyle Brandt, in particular, were uncompromising about how they felt Gruden had disgraced himself and the Raiders. They seemed utterly sincere but you know there was an editorial meeting where they were told how hard they were allowed to go.

They talked about how, in the summer when Carl Nassib came out, there was all these declarations that the NFL was finally becoming more inclusive and embracing of different people, only for one of the biggest name coaches to prove that there's still a very conservative, bigoted and reactionary attitude among those involved in the game.

What they didn't mention was how there's also a significant portion of the fanbase that shares a lot of Gruden's attitudes.

14 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

Lamar throws for  4 TD's and 440 yards passing.   He won it with his arm.  

Or course he almost lost it with his hands (one fumble at 1 yard line and one near fumble)

It was almost like he needed that fumble to get properly pissed off and determined to come back and win.

Lamar has left a lot of passing yards on the field this season, thanks to drops from his receivers, but last night they really came through and forced people to face just how good a passer he is.

He's currently on course for something like 6500 total yards of offense this season, which is absurd.

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4 hours ago, merylinkid said:

The emails were leaked to be a distraction from the real problem (owners) and to get rid of a problematic guy. 

Right.  For whatever reason, it was decided Gruden had to go. Unlike others, I really don't think it was because he insulted Goodell.  Goodell might have an ego but calibrating that ego is essential when it comes to the job he holds that serves the at the pleasure of the owners.  He has taken the bullet for them many times and has to work political magic to get them to go along with things he feels are important for pushing the image of the NFL forward. It might be because he insulted owners but I doubt it was because of Goodell. 

It's also interesting that the first little bit that came out was about DeMaurice Smith right as he was up for re-election as the head of the NFLPA.  They wanted him re-elected.  (And why not?  They got a pretty sweet deal during the last negotiation period.) 

The other stuff came out yesterday but Mark Davis, whose progressive values the TV analysts were extolling, largely on the legacy of his father, actually was given all of the emails last Friday.  Yet Gruden still coached on Sunday.

There's a story here.  I wonder if we'll ever get it. 

 

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2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

There's a story here.  I wonder if we'll ever get it. 

Gruden was one of our favorite coaches during his time with the Bucs.  We're really disappointed in what has transpired.   I'm not trying to defend him, but I am curious to see how the story unfolds.  There has to be a lot more to it than what has already been reported.  I wonder how many other heads are going to roll.  

He seemed to have a good rapport with the team back in the day, but we never know what goes on behind the scenes.  Sigh.   

 

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12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Right.  For whatever reason, it was decided Gruden had to go. Unlike others, I really don't think it was because he insulted Goodell.  Goodell might have an ego but calibrating that ego is essential when it comes to the job he holds that serves the at the pleasure of the owners.  He has taken the bullet for them many times and has to work political magic to get them to go along with things he feels are important for pushing the image of the NFL forward. It might be because he insulted owners but I doubt it was because of Goodell. 

It's also interesting that the first little bit that came out was about DeMaurice Smith right as he was up for re-election as the head of the NFLPA.  They wanted him re-elected.  (And why not?  They got a pretty sweet deal during the last negotiation period.) 

The other stuff came out yesterday but Mark Davis, whose progressive values the TV analysts were extolling, largely on the legacy of his father, actually was given all of the emails last Friday.  Yet Gruden still coached on Sunday.

There's a story here.  I wonder if we'll ever get it. 

 

I would think it took a few days to go through the emails and decide how to respond, legally and publically.   

I doubt too it had to do with insulting Goodell.  I'm sure he's heard worse from many sources.  He has his faults certainly but that doesn't seem like a move he'd make. 

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9 hours ago, ChitChat said:

Gruden was one of our favorite coaches during his time with the Bucs.  We're really disappointed in what has transpired.   I'm not trying to defend him, but I am curious to see how the story unfolds.  There has to be a lot more to it than what has already been reported.  I wonder how many other heads are going to roll.  

He seemed to have a good rapport with the team back in the day, but we never know what goes on behind the scenes.  Sigh.   

 

Ive read others questioning why it's just gruden under attack and not others so far, like the people he was emailing. I'd think that's because it's an ongoing federal investigation and those other people are directly involved, so any further info won't come out until the investigation is completed. 

Gruden was not directly involved just dragged into it. 

On another note, normally I'd like seeing the bills doing well.   It's good to see a small market team without much recent success have some winning memories. 

But Cole Beasley is such an arrogant douche, I just can't root much for that team. 

 

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Well, I got my answer about Gruden:

"He's just always been a fraud to me. ... From day one, he's always been a used car salesman."—@keyshawn on Jon Gruden 

"Jon Gruden's career is over.  Worst leader of men I've been around in 30 years of football.  Absolutely horrible guy.  Dude is a fraud.   He's just a bad guy." — Mike Goldfarb 

Of course these 2 don't speak for everybody, but I'm sure we'll hear a lot more opinions about him in the coming days.  Yikes!  

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9 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Well, I got my answer about Gruden:

"He's just always been a fraud to me. ... From day one, he's always been a used car salesman."—@keyshawn on Jon Gruden 

"Jon Gruden's career is over.  Worst leader of men I've been around in 30 years of football.  Absolutely horrible guy.  Dude is a fraud.   He's just a bad guy." — Mike Goldfarb 

Of course these 2 don't speak for everybody, but I'm sure we'll hear a lot more opinions about him in the coming days.  Yikes!  

Yep.   He was not popular with players.   The Chucky image came from somewhere.

Bucs removed him from the Hall of Fame.

53 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I'd think that's because it's an ongoing federal investigation and those other people are directly involved, so any further info won't come out until the investigation is completed. 

There is no ongoing investigation, federal or NFL.   The feds were not involved in the WFT investigation that was all internal.   And it is over.   They finished it and basically told Dan to step aside and let his wife run the team for a bit.   But he was all over the place in the preseason.  

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56 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Yep.   He was not popular with players.   The Chucky image came from somewhere.

Bucs removed him from the Hall of Fame.

There is no ongoing investigation, federal or NFL.   The feds were not involved in the WFT investigation that was all internal.   And it is over.   They finished it and basically told Dan to step aside and let his wife run the team for a bit.   But he was all over the place in the preseason.  

Sorry you're right......wft has too many I investigations going on.   I was mixing this up with the dea investigation into their trainer.  

They should just release all the emails. 

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50 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Well, I got my answer about Gruden:

"He's just always been a fraud to me. ... From day one, he's always been a used car salesman."—@keyshawn on Jon Gruden 

"Jon Gruden's career is over.  Worst leader of men I've been around in 30 years of football.  Absolutely horrible guy.  Dude is a fraud.   He's just a bad guy." — Mike Goldfarb 

Of course these 2 don't speak for everybody, but I'm sure we'll hear a lot more opinions about him in the coming days.  Yikes!  

I don't think much of Keyshawn Johnson, but my view of Gruden is pretty close to that. I've always thought he was a bit of an empty vessel, personality-wise. Just prepared to say whatever he thought would make his immediate audience like him - whether that's being a locker room bro with his players, being a conservative white dude with the owners and coaches, being friendly and personable as a TV pundit.

I can see him sincerely assuring Carl Nassib that he's 'one of our guys' then turning round and making homophobic slurs to his middle-aged white guy friends.

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Gruden has always seemed arrogant and smarmy to me.  I didn't have a strong view of him one way or another before this but that was my view of him. 

Gets way too much credit for the BUCS title.  

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15 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Gets way too much credit for the BUCS title.  

Only one because the Raiders coach was too arrogant and never changed the signals from what Gruden had set up.   

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Gruden would have preferred Chris Simms to die on the field than get treatment for a ruptured spleen.

The Bucs removing Gruden from the ring of honor for things he said is a slippery slope, especially considering who the Bucs have under their current employment and also in the ring of honor.  Gruden said awful, terrible things and his removal is deserved.  He has not been, to my knowledge, under investigation for beating women.

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I don't know what Gruden is like with his team, people tell me he's a good coach.  I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but,  I never liked him, -- mostly because, before this latest coaching gig, his interviews with players were excruciatingly boring.

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This really is all so confusing.  

So Dan Snyder is suing some media company in India for defamation over articles from 2020.  Part of the discovery for that when process was Allen's emails between he and gruden and other media people.  It seems it's relevant to the case because he was likely leaking stories to the media but claimed under oath he was never in contact with those media members. Anyway those emails from that legal process were leaked to the press, hence the gruden emails. 

But at the same time the NFL finished it's own Investigation of the wft/wtfs over the summer. Presumably in the process of that review they also just coincidentally had a access to THOSE VERY SAME EMAILS and it seems did nothing with them. That investigation doesn't seem to be the source for where they emails were leaked.

THEN there is also the DEA investigation of the WTFs trainer that surfaced recently.  Nothing related to these emails. 

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2021-10-12/nfl-jon-gruden-emails-washington-football-team

So if the emails were not leaked as part of a separate dan Snyder Initiated defamation case in India, these emails never get released.  The NFL from their investigation it seems just looked the other way.  

Very confusing.  

 

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8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I've always thought he was a bit of an empty vessel, personality-wise.

I only know what I saw of him in interviews and on the sidelines.  I liked his animated personality on the field.  It was quite entertaining.  Some coaches are as dull as dishwater, but he was hilarious to watch.  He did some work with up and coming college QBs, and I always liked those one-on-one sessions as he gave them advice.  He seemed like a nice guy.  However, we'll never know what goes on behind the scenes with any of these NFL players/coaches/owners, etc. 

Again, I'm not defending him, but it's a little scary thinking that one's personal emails  - especially from that long ago - can be dug up and used to ruin a person in less than 24 hours.   I'd like to give him his day in court, so to speak, and give him a chance to explain himself, as I would with anybody going through something similar.   YMMV.  

 

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1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

Again, I'm not defending him, but it's a little scary thinking that one's personal emails  - especially from that long ago - can be dug up and used to ruin a person in less than 24 hours.   I'd like to give him his day in court, so to speak, and give him a chance to explain himself, as I would with anybody going through something similar.   YMMV.  

Numerous horrendous emails over a seven year period that wasn't all that long ago isn't the same as a stupid heat of the moment tweet.   If it was just the 2011 email he probably could have ridden out the storm, especially if the Raiders were successful, by using the playbook he was pulling from initially (I'm not a racist, I apologize, that was a long time ago, etc.). 

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1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

Again, I'm not defending him, but it's a little scary thinking that one's personal emails  - especially from that long ago - can be dug up and used to ruin a person in less than 24 hours.   I'd like to give him his day in court, so to speak, and give him a chance to explain himself, as I would with anybody going through something similar.   YMMV.  

He already had his metaphorical day in court, though.  What more is there for him to explain further than he already has (terribly)?  He said after the first email was leaked that he didn't remember writing it and didn't have a racist bone in his body, which was clearly bullshit since a slew of other correspondences were subsequently released.  He doesn't need or deserve another metaphorical day in court.  This was not a one-off, for which I still wouldn't have much forgiveness; this happened over a period of years.  It's what you do when no one's looking (or when you think no one's looking) that determines who you are.  Well, when Gruden (and the other shitbags in that little circle jerk) thought no one was looking, he revealed himself to be a racist, homophobic, misogynistic asshole; that's exactly who he is.  If you feel comfortable saying any of that horrible shit to anyone, it's who you are, and you don't get to whine about the privacy element of it (which, to be fair, Gruden hasn't) should those words become public knowledge.

Also, his life was not ruined by this since he's already exceptionally rich; he just lost a job that he can afford to lose, and some people (but nowhere near all people) think him despicable.  Moreover, because he's a straight white guy who's already in the NFL club, as surely as the sun rises in the east, some other shitty NFL owner or university will probably offer him a head-coaching position if he wants it.  Honestly, the fact that he's the only one in that email chain who's suffered any consequences so far is telling: a scapegoat was needed to avoid more probing, it's Gruden, and it'll blow over eventually because it usually does for straight white guys in power positions in the NFL.

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1 hour ago, NUguy514 said:

He already had his metaphorical day in court, though. 

I've only heard the media's side of it - and very little of that.  I've tuned most of it out.  Again, I'm very disappointed in the whole thing.  That's not who I thought he was.    

1 hour ago, NUguy514 said:

it's Gruden, and it'll blow over eventually because it usually does for straight white guys in power positions in the NFL.

There are plenty of NFL players (black & white) who have done some heinous things (Michael Vick, to name one), but most of them have been forgiven and carry on within the NFL.  It's not just a "straight white guy" thing.    

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2 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Honestly, the fact that he's the only one in that email chain who's suffered any consequences so far is telling: a scapegoat was needed to avoid more probing, it's Gruden

NFL is denying they released the emails.  I thought they had but then they released the email from Adam Schefter to Bruce Allen when he basically said "here's a story I'm running, let me know if I should add or change anything" before he ran it.  That's not good journalism.  Get a comment on the topic or verify facts from sources? Sure.  But give them the whole article?  Nope. 

I don't think the NFL would want to throw Schefter under the bus.

So if it's not the NFL, I wonder if we'll keep getting the leaks.

4 hours ago, ChitChat said:

 I'd like to give him his day in court, so to speak, and give him a chance to explain himself, as I would with anybody going through something similar. 

His day in court is with his employers.  They looked at the evidence and judgment was passed.  That's where something like this is adjudicated.  He had his opportunity to explain himself to them.  Heck, he could have even tried to explain himself to the media but chose not to.

I'm not sure what good explanation there is for using racist, sexist and homophobic language.  "I didn't think anyone would find out" usually isn't a defense.

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1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

There are plenty of NFL players (black & white) who have done some heinous things (Michael Vick, to name one), but most of them have been forgiven and carry on within the NFL.  It's not just a "straight white guy" thing.    

Absolutely, but being a straight white guy in a power position (an owner or a head coach) certainly helps enormously.

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As mentioned, Jon Gruden was who he was for about 3 quarters of a decade and never owned up to it.  There's no comparison to anyone that's been caught with a random tweet that would get dug up years later or some comment that was taped half a century ago but was somehow released to the public.

The lack of accountability and trying to back pedal helped with his ouster.  

At the end of the day, it's Jon Gruden.  He's not Bill Belichick or any successful HOF HC.  IMHO, he was average at best after 14 season of coaching, and I'm being generous

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WFT is retiring Sean Taylor's number on Sunday.   My first reaction was "Wait it wasn't already retired???"   My second reaction was "Good way to distract from literally everything else, retire the number of a guy most fans mourn still today."   

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