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Green Arrow In Comics

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Why is it that nobody ever seems to give Justin Hartley and the writers of Smallville any credit for the existence of Arrow? Justin Hartley took a relatively obscure comics character, who was only supposed to be on the show for 4 episodes, and made him so popular that he eventually became a series regular and the producers/network were considering spinning him off into his own series. IMO, if it wasn't for that, the CW would have never agreed to do a weekly Green Arrow series. 

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7 hours ago, shadow2008 said:

Why is it that nobody ever seems to give Justin Hartley and the writers of Smallville any credit for the existence of Arrow? Justin Hartley took a relatively obscure comics character, who was only supposed to be on the show for 4 episodes, and made him so popular that he eventually became a series regular and the producers/network were considering spinning him off into his own series. IMO, if it wasn't for that, the CW would have never agreed to do a weekly Green Arrow series. 

True; but I keep thinking that the main reason that Green Arrow was even on that show at all was because they couldn't use Batman.

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5 hours ago, Trini said:

True; but I keep thinking that the main reason that Green Arrow was even on that show at all was because they couldn't use Batman.

True as well.  And may we all give a rousing thanks for that.  

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And I'm pretty sure the sales pitch for Arrow from Berlanti was his take on Nolans Batman films with Green Arrow. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Green Arrow was originally devised to be a Batman-lite character they could make socially and politically conscious so the DC writers could explore real world social and political issues they wanted to push and have the Green Arrow take a position within the comics that they wanted to sort of keep the Batman character (and presumably Superman) away from so they could keep him more universal- sort of like the Queen. 

I mean again my knowledge about comic lore and history spans about the width of my hand but that's what I recall reading. 

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15 hours ago, Trini said:

True; but I keep thinking that the main reason that Green Arrow was even on that show at all was because they couldn't use Batman.

I'm pretty sure that is the only reason Green Arrow was used in Arrow as well.

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Yeah I think that was basically mentioned around the time. They wanted to do their version of BB/TDK etc as those movies were so popular and everyone was really into "gritty no super powers heroes/anti heroes" co, hence all the "it's not a comic book show" at the beginning, and partly to differentiate from Smallville I guess. Then Avengers smashed records and The Flash was born not long after and they started to introduce meta humans, mirakuru and magic (although there is obviously a place for differing styles as shown).

The characters DC is willing to let be used sometimes seems random to me, I'm not sure why Atom couldn't have been Blue Beetle for example.

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Checking back in with the GA Rebirth comics, here's some reviews of Green Arrow #15 (released Jan. 18)...

http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2017/01/18/green-arrow-15-review/

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The story itself is action packed akin to something out of Lethal Weapon; that includes a car chase, postulating villains, and cool surprises. Black Canary continues to be a fun addition to this series and I’m starting to wonder how a Green Arrow comic could continue without her. The relationship between she and Ollie continues to be a sexy and romantic wrinkle in the book that gives the book an emotional core that’s hard to deny.

http://www.newsarama.com/32767-best-shots-review-green-arrow-15.html

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Returning artist Juan Ferreyra’s art is something of an acquired taste in this issue. On the one hand there’s the violence of the attacks, including a close-up of a bloody headshot and gleeful gunplay. It’s coupled with some terrific action sequences involving Black Canary, speedlining her way onto the top of an armored vehicle and sonic screeching her way in through a constantly moving set of panels. Yet on the other hand there’s a full page spread of a semi-clad Canary cradling a shirtless Ollie that looks like it was inspired by soft-core fan art, the kind of page that will be popping up in Tumblr feeds until the end of time. Ferreyra's strengths are in his action-oriented layouts and unreal colors, with the whole issue bathed in an appropriate soft green glow.

Edited by tv echo

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15 minutes ago, tv echo said:

The relationship between she and Ollie

Shouldn't that be "between her and Ollie"?  (Maybe I've been watching the show too much but "Ollie" sounds so dated.)

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I don't think this was previously posted - it's A.V. Club's discussion last September of DC Rebirth in general...

Has DC’s Rebirth successfully redeemed the publisher’s past sins?
By Tegan O'Neil and Oliver Sava   Sep 2, 2016  
http://www.avclub.com/article/has-dcs-rebirth-successfully-redeemed-publishers-p-241743

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One of the most confusing things about The New 52 was that the Green Lantern and Batman franchises continued stories from before Flashpoint, which were now being condensed into a five-year period that didn’t make much sense, especially for Batman and his multiple sidekicks. Which brings us to DC Rebirth and the reveal that 10 years of these characters’ lives were stolen from them by an outside force after Flashpoint, a force that is heavily implied to be Watchmen’s Dr. Manhattan. Rebirth isn’t a reboot like The New 52; the new mythology of the last four years is still intact, but elements from the old continuity are making their way back in, beginning with the return of Wally West in the DC Rebirth one-shot written by Geoff Johns, the new president of DC Entertainment. The married Superman from before Flashpoint is back and raising a son with Lois Lane; Green Arrow and Black Canary’s romance has been rekindled; and the Justice Society is slated to make a return in the near future. (Then there are smaller changes like Amanda Waller returning to her classic appearance after being dramatically slimmed down in The New 52.)
*  *  *
Going into Rebirth, a lot of DC’s most prominent characters were stuck in lackluster comics. Aquaman, The Flash, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Superman, and Wonder Woman were all floundering, which is most of the Justice League. (I wish I could call Cyborg a prominent character at DC, but he still feels like a supporting player despite attempts to put him in the spotlight in the New 52. Cyborg’s last series was a mess, so I have no idea what to expect from the Rebirth title.) I would consider Wonder Woman, Superman, and Green Arrow as the biggest improvements, with The Flash and Hal Jordan And The Green Lantern Corps in the middle and Action Comics, Aquaman, and Green Lanterns as the weakest of this bunch. Those last three have been plagued by very inconsistent art; Actions Comics has a rotating art team that isn’t cohesive, Aquaman has multiple artists working in a similarly bland style (although Brad Walker did strong work in his one issue), and Green Lanterns has a deep roster of fill-in artists working to get issues out on time and suffering under the time crunch.
*  *  *
In terms of new launches, I think the success of Rebirth in month three or four is going to say a lot more about the future direction of the line than month one or two. And it’s not the guaranteed hits like Batman or the dependable performers like the Superman line who will dictate this direction, it will be the midlist....
*  *  *
Rebirth has succeeded so far in that it has done a good job of giving readers precisely what they said they wanted, which is no mean feat in today’s marketplace. DC needs to prove again that it can successfully sell readers something they don’t yet know they want. At some point even satisfied customers eventually want something different.

Even Slade Wilson got a love interest...
800.jpg

Edited by tv echo

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2 hours ago, EmilyBettFan said:

They even talk about Divorce? But I thought they didn't like reading about relationship stuff? Goodness these fans are hilarious.

But they did it while naked and about to be attacked?  Is that the key? 

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Relationships have been part of comics since forever, 1 or 2 panels a issue that quickly gets back to the action probably isnt going to upset that many people. Even non-comic book fans werent here for the baby momma drama on the show or Oliver lying to Felicity. 

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11 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

baby momma drama on the show or Oliver lying to Felicity. 

psst the baby mama drama WAS Oliver lying to Felicity. 

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I recently read a 512 review (which I'm not posting in this forum) in which the male reviewer said that Arrow's cast was too large and that next season's cast should be trimmed down to Oliver, Diggle and Tinah (and maybe Curtis).  Gee, I wonder if he reads the GA Rebirth comics.

Edited by tv echo

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Well Laurel in the show only wanted to be Mrs. Queen because she was thirsty for the recognition and money. Didn't care that he cheated on her when they were together and didn't care that Sara basically told her the truth about Oliver but, she didn't want to hear it. Which is what leads to people thinking she's only in it for the dough and the name.

Edited by EmilyBettFan

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On 2/6/2017 at 8:29 AM, statsgirl said:

Shouldn't that be "between her and Ollie"?  (Maybe I've been watching the show too much but "Ollie" sounds so dated.)

As far as the grammar is concerned, you are correct.

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3 hours ago, EmilyBettFan said:

Well Laurel in the show only wanted to be Mrs. Queen because she was thirsty for the recognition and money. Didn't care that he cheated on her when they were together and didn't care that Sara basically told her the truth about Oliver but, she didn't want to hear it. Which is what leads to people thinking she's only in it for the dough and the nam

Where was this ever confirmed though that she was just in it for recognition and money? If that was the case she would've jumped Tommys bones immediately after Oliver "died" Their relationship was far from healthy at the time he "died" but obviously she was very forgiving if she found out he was constantly cheating. 

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14 hours ago, tv echo said:

I recently read a 512 review (which I'm not posting in this forum) in which the male reviewer said that Arrow's cast was too large and that next season's cast should be trimmed down to Oliver, Diggle and Tinah (and maybe Curtis).  Gee, I wonder if he reads the GA Rebirth comics.

I read a suggestion for Oliver, Tinah, Thea (she'd be the long lost kid sister in the comics, lol) and Diggle.  And they could just take turns on coms.  Insert eye roll.    

Edited by BkWurm1

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2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I read a suggestion for Oliver, Tinah, Thea (she'd be the long lost kid sister in the comics, lol) and Diggle.  And they could just take turns on coms.  Insert eye roll.    

If they go that way, why bother even having someone on comms? Just have in the field tech & ear buds. Comms would just drag that show down.

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11 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Unless it's a typo...Diggle in the comics is now named Tom Diggle instead of John Diggle and Roy is finally making his return to the Green Arrow-verse.

http://www.newsarama.com/33172-how-classic-roy-harper-story-re-incorporated-into-rebirth-s-green-arrow.html

The comic cover and more specifically the Green Arrow outfit is hilariously bad.  

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Benjamin Percy: Since the very beginning, I wanted to cast him out of his ivory tower and build up the Robin Hood mythology.

Well that explains that ridiculous costume.

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Percy: Yes, and if you think about what makes Green Arrow great - and that's the very question that Geoff Johns asked me in January 2016. I flew out to Burbank and went to the DC mothership. We went to that room with the white board on it and Geoff closed the door, and that's what he asked me. He said, "What makes Green Arrow great? What are the greatest elements of the Green Arrow mythology?"  We put up everything and anything on that board - we put up the goatee, we put up the romance with Black Canary, we put up Roy Harper.

I think I'll take a pass on those comics, the goatee makes him look like a refugee from an Errol Flynn movie and the TV show has soured me forever on the romance with the Black Canary and everything else Percy said just looks like a retread of what's been done and better..

But I find it interesting how the show has developed a completely different mythology than the comics it came from.  I'd even rather the comic books didn't have Diggle because it blurs the lines.

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I find it odd that what makes Green Arrow great according to that quote is his facial hair, his relationship and someone else. Nothing actually about Green Arrow himself. Not his skills in the field. Not what he does for his city. But those things? 

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2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I find it odd that what makes Green Arrow great according to that quote is his facial hair, his relationship and someone else. Nothing actually about Green Arrow himself. Not his skills in the field. Not what he does for his city. But those things? 

It's all about appearance and arm candy. Not anything about how he is a hero or how BC is supposed to make him a better man or hero once again.

Whereas on the show it's the people around Oliver who make him better (specifically Thea, Diggle and Felicity.) It's Star City that he's fighting for and at least trying to be a mayor. 

Plus Felicity apart from all others when he was with her was said in most reviews how she and the others make him more human and not a machine.

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9 hours ago, wonderwall said:

How does facial hair make a character great?

It doesn't. But it's one of the character's defining visuals - kind of like Superman's s-curl, or the Joker's white skin/green hair. Plus it's a nod to him being a version of Robin Hood. And I wanna say that it probably helps differentiate him from the other two blond dudes in the Justice League.

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Latest monthly sales figures posted...

January 2017 Comic Book Sales to Comics Shops
Monday, February 20, 2017
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2017/2017-01.html

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Units    Dollars    Comic-book Title    Issue    Price    Publisher      Est. units
*  *  *
70           87          Green Arrow               14        $2.99      DC                35,733
.  .  .
75           90           Green Arrow              15        $2.99      DC                34,590

Edited by tv echo

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^  ^  ^  For comparison:

December 2016 Comic Book Sales to Comics Shops
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-12.html

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66    86    Green Arrow    12    $2.99    DC    38,515
.  .  .
70    87    Green Arrow    13    $2.99    DC    37,365

November 2016 Comic Book Sales Figures
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-11.html

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57    Green Arrow    10    $2.99    DC    43,355
.  .  .
60    Green Arrow    11    $2.99    DC    41,576

October 2016 Comic Book Sales Figures
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-10.html

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52    Green Arrow    8    $2.99    DC    48,904
.  .  .
56    Green Arrow    9    $2.99    DC    46,606

September 2016 Comic Book Sales Figures
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-09.html

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40    Green Arrow    6    $2.99    DC    55,330
.  .  .
43    Green Arrow    7    $2.99    DC    52,794

August 2016 Comic Book Sales Figures
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-08.html

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40    Green Arrow    4*    $2.99    DC    67,577
.  .  .
45    Green Arrow    5*    $2.99    DC    63,209

July 2016 Comic Book Sales Figures
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-07.html

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34    Green Arrow    3*    $2.99    DC    72,864
35    Green Arrow    2*    $2.99    DC    72,849

June 2016 Comic Book Sales Figures [REBIRTH]
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-06.html

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19    Green Arrow Rebirth    1*    $2.99    DC    81,760
.  .  .
33    Green Arrow                 1*    $2.99    DC    69,833

May 2016 Comic Book Sales Figures [RIGHT BEFORE REBIRTH]
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-05.html

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94    Green Arrow    52    $2.99    DC    20,559

Edited by tv echo
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Very interesting.  It seems that they're well on track to replicate May 2016 sales by May 2017. 

Do they reboot for the publicity?  (Do the dropping sales figure make it less likely the show will go Oliver/Dinah?)

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Perhaps reboots give them the leeway to bring new writers or illustrators in. It also could allow for different negotiations. Seasons might lock them into contracts they don't want. 

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They already into contracts anyway most of the time. A 12 "episode" contract wouldnt really be anything different then what we are already getting bts.

This way they would be able to keep things a tiny bit fresher, keep on renumbering and doing what they do. 

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9 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Yea. Reboots/renumbering has proven to be popular amongst the public. I don't know why comics haven't adopted a "season" format yet.

That makes sense.  It would give them something to promote instead of needing to reboot.

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Reboots could also make it so it was easier to start picking them up whenever.  I can look at Green Arrow and think "Oh, god.  I have to catch up on 50 years of comics" and decide to not dig in, but having the reboots would make it easier to dig in.

Edited by thegirlsleuth
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1 hour ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Reboots could also make it so it was easier to start picking them up whenever.  I can look at Green Arrow and think "Oh, god.  I have to catch up on 50 years of comics" and decide to not dig in, but having the reboots would make it easier to dig in.

Reboots are as much a part of comics as capes and cowls;  they are never going away, but between reboots, I can see how setting up seasons withing the series would make jumping in to a comic easier as well.  

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Roy Harper joins the GA Rebirth series this week...

EXCLUSIVE PREVIEW | ‘GREEN ARROW’ # 18
Blair Marnell  Feb 27th, 2017
http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/1222231-exclusive-preview-green-arrow-18?sf59249344=1

Quote

Roy Harper is back, and Oliver’s former sidekick really isn’t pleased with his mentor. Speedy has reinvented himself as Arsenal, a hero nearly as formidable as Oliver…and much angrier too!

In CraveOnline’s exclusive preview for Green Arrow # 18, we get to see how Roy and Oliver first met in the new continuity, and it’s probably not the way you would have expected. Meanwhile in the present, Roy comes across some law enforcement officials who attempt to keep him off of his family’s land.
*  *  *
This issue was written by Benjamin Percy, with art by Eleanor Carlini. The main cover was by Otto Schmidt, while the legendary Neal Adams provided the open order variant cover. Here’s the official description from DC Comics:

“REUNION” part one! Oliver Queen and Roy Harper once patrolled the streets as Green Arrow and Speedy, but a massive falling-out left them estranged for years. Now, learn the truth behind the tragic dissolution—and triumphant reunion—of one of comics’ most iconic super-duos as Green Arrow and Arsenal join forces once more!

Edited by tv echo

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On 2/21/2017 at 1:20 AM, BkWurm1 said:

Reboots are as much a part of comics as capes and cowls;  they are never going away, but between reboots, I can see how setting up seasons withing the series would make jumping in to a comic easier as well.  

Marvel was doing that for a time, everything was listed as a miniseries type event. So you'd buy X-Men #1 (Wood) and it would Be subtitled 1/6 so that each "arc" or mini-series had a start/end and then the next arc would start. 

I don't know if it helped in the long run but, supposedly it made it easier to for the Trades.  Lemiere did that when he worked on the GA title. They weren't totally self contained stories, bit you at least knew where the arc started/ended and the next story picked up.

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The print issue of the new Entertainment Weekly (dated March 10, 2017) includes an article on DC Rebirth. From the GA blurb in that article is this Benjamin Percy quote...

Quote

GREEN ARROW
*  *   *
WHAT THEY KEPT
Fellow superhero Black Canary remains essential to the series. "It might as well be called Green Arrow and Black Canary," Percy says. "Green Arrow doesn't work without her; it's like a yin without a yang. There's a collective element to their relationship where she serves not only as a love interest but also as a conscience. I can't imagine writing the series without her. She's such a badass."

Edited by tv echo

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8 hours ago, tv echo said:

The print issue of the new Entertainment Weekly (dated March 10, 2017) includes an article on DC Rebirth. From the GA blurb in that article is this Benjamin Percy quote...

Wouldn't it be easy for him to imagine writing the series without her since that is what he used to do for a long time?

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^^^  Related online Entertainment Weekly article (the words I've bolded below were omitted from the print version of that paragraph)...

DC Rebirth: How Green Arrow became a 'social justice warrior' again
CHRISTIAN HOLUB   MARCH 6, 2017 
http://ew.com/books/2017/03/06/dc-rebirth-green-arrow/

Quote

Among the pantheon of DC’s top heroes, Green Arrow has always been something of an odd duck. He started off as an obvious Batman rip-off (rich boy takes on eccentric hobby in reaction to traumatic origin story) and often struggled to differentiate himself. The superpowered Justice League, after all, is not often in need of trick arrows. Green Arrow’s aimlessness changed in the ’70s, however, when writer Dennis O’Neil and Neal Adams paired him up with Green Lantern for a cross-country road trip. Green Lantern/Green Arrow traded in alien conquerors and would-be supervillains, instead pitting its heroes against everyday American problems of racial injustice, drug addiction, and other socio-economic issues. In the process, Oliver Queen changed from just another rich boy superhero to what the internet now calls a “social justice warrior,” attuned to the struggles of the downtrodden and determined to use his privilege for good. Although the character shifted on and off this beat over the subsequent decades, it remains an iconic part of his history. And that meant it got brought up when current Green Arrow writer Benjamin Percy met with DC Rebirth mastermind Geoff Johns to plot out the character’s future.

“What we did to start with was to make a list of things that have made Green Arrow great in the past,” Percy tells EW. “Who are his best enemies? Who are his most interesting sidekicks? And then the idea was, how can we write the greatest Green Arrow storyline of all time? How can we put a unique modern stamp on it while tipping our hat to history? It meant bringing back the goatee, it meant bringing back Black Canary. It meant really channeling great creators like Dennis O’Neil and Neal Adams.”
*  *  *
And so, within the first few pages of this new Green Arrow series, Oliver Queen tells the reader that he’s gotten bored of boardrooms and eligible-bachelor escapades. Instead, he says, “I prefer the job description of social justice warrior.” He then leaps off a rooftop in full Green Arrow regalia, on his way to fight street criminals. But the interest in social justice is a real one, and many of the enemies in this Green Arrow run feel ripped from current headlines. First up is the Ninth Circle, a grotesque group of “1 percent” billionaires whose machinations force Oliver to reconsider his own wealth and privilege. The fact that Green Arrow takes place in the real city of Seattle, as opposed to the fictional metropolises that populate other DC comics,
*  *  *
The focus on modern issues is not the only element Percy and artist Juan Ferreyra have brought back to Green Arrow. In its attempt to shake up the status quo, The New 52 era of DC made a point to separate Green Arrow from his longtime love interest and crimefighting partner, Black Canary. By contrast, Percy and Ferreyra not only reunited the two right off the bat, they made their dynamic essential to the book.

“The series might as well be called Green Arrow and Black Canary,” Percy says. “Green Arrow doesn’t really work without her, it’s like a yin without a yang. He often makes the wrong decision, so there’s a collective element to their relationship where she serves not only as a love interest but also as a kind of conscience. I can’t imagine writing the series without her. She’s such a badass.”

Ferreyra worked to make the connection between the leads clear in the art as well.

“I tried to do more round and soft edges with Black Canary, and give more hard edge to the design of Green Arrow. But at the same time, I used watercolors and soft pencils and things like that to make them come together as a couple,” Ferreyra says. “Then parts of the drawing are out of focus or in a blur so every time they’re together it feels like a dream.”

Edited by tv echo

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13 minutes ago, tv echo said:

“Then parts of the drawing are out of focus or in a blur so every time they’re together it feels like a dream.”

LOL

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 Comic-book Title    Issue    Price    Publisher      Est. units
Green Arrow               16        $2.99      DC                33,371
Green Arrow              17        $2.99      DC                32,392

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2017/2017-02.html

February sales numbers for GA. 7% drop from last month

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