S03.E12: The Number Of The Beast Is 666

[wayne67]

If you take away assumed gender preferences from their relationship, they have a very deep but odd relationship.

 

First time they meet is a result of Jack setting them up. Will starts off defensive knowing that Jack thinks he's fine china that may break at any moment through vigorous use and Hannibal may see him the same way. Hannibal reassures Will that he doesn't think of him that way and they share a meal together with Will more relaxed after that.

 

Shortly afterwards Hannibal arranges a situation where Will kills Garret Jacob Hobbs so that Will is slightly more like him, a killer of men. Hannibal's interest in Will increases as he sees the potential in Will to be more than what he is now, Hannibal is greatly intrigued in what Will will become if he lets himself loose of the shackles of 'appropriate behavior'.

 

During the following time they spend together, Will shares his inner most thoughts, finds out who Hannibal really is, is imprisoned and isolated and Hannibal arranges for him to be freed. Will threatens to kill him and Hannibal acts as if he's being serenaded with a death threat. They spend the time after that circling each other playing an elaborate game of flirtation with Will sending a killer after him and Hannibal sending a killer after him. Will 'pretends' to flirt back, killing Bear Guy and arranging his corpse in a way to excite and encourage Hannibal to trust him and let him get closer.

 

Hannibal lets him. They make plans to run away together from their 'real lives' so they can indulge a European vacation fantasy. Will protects Hannibal by informing him that he's been busted. Hannibal tries to cut their ties together by performing acts of violence but for one reason or another can't go all the way and everyone that could feasibly ruin their relationship by dying survives the encounter, damaged but alive.

 

Hannibal goes on the vacation with his third choice and finds it dissatisfying and continually sabotages himself in an attempt to draw back Will into his orbit. He succeeds and Will tries to break the bonds between them but Hannibal refuses to let that happen. So instead of fleeing into the night and surrendering his connection with Will he submits to Jack so that Will always know where he is.

 

Will tries to make a life for himself but it's a flimsy construct. He doesn't tell his new partner who he really is and it isn't that hard for Jack to convince him to abandon it.

 

Will and Hannibal resume their former relationship in a way with Will bringing him case files which is an equivalent of a love letter dripping in blood and Hannibal keeps appealing to the Will he thinks Will could be.

 

I don't think Hannibal's love is necessarily the sexual variety. Hannibal is infatuated with the idea of who Will could be, in a way he put Will on a murder pedestal in a way idolising him and getting slightly frustrated every time he doesn't quite measure up. Will for his part suffers a sort of enhanced transference with Will thinking of Hannibal as a mentor and someone he can confide in utterly his deepest darkest dreams without censure.

 

Their relationship is more unhealthy co-dependence than traditional sexual lust followed by dates, sexual activity and limited emotional intimacy. They dated, sharing thoughts and feelings with Will being more dependant than Hannibal, then Will started seeing Hannibal for who he really was and Hannibal got more involved then they shared some deaths and they were inexplicably entangled together.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I can see the "sexual" side of this relationship in Hannibal, but it is not what this relationship is about, and it is not what makes it special. The bound between the 2 man, the fact that they are the anwer to one another's loneliness, that they have acceptance and understanding between themselves that they can not find in anyone else (not at this level), is what makes them close. And I think, in their case, all that emotional and mental closeness leads up to some sexual closeness too. So, no, Hannibal does not want Will for his body, and he did not fall in love with him because of his face pretty face. But I do see him desiring Will physically too, because he is completely obsessed and enamoured with Will and would want to have him in every aspect - mind, soul and body.

 

In a way, it is different than how usual TV couples tend to move. Usually first there is sexual attraction, then you get more emotional basis for the relationship and they grow apart or come together through their experiences... It would be the other way around for Will/Hannibal. Will has only now accepted how he feels about Hannibal and can't resist him, it will take him even more time to decide he wants Hannibal sexually, I think... So if there was ever to be a Hannibal/Will kiss, I think it would only come after they get to spend some substantial time just the two of them together, exploting the emotional side of the relationship even further.

[jeansheridan]

 

I can see the "sexual" side of this relationship in Hannibal, but it is not what this relationship is about, and it is not what makes it special.

 

If you take away assumed gender preferences from their relationship, they have a very deep but odd relationship.

This is is directly from the novel Hannibal, which is of course one of Fuller's source materials.  "Their relationship has a great deal to do with the penetration of Clarice Starling, which she avidly welcomes and encourages.  It has much to do with the envelopment of Hannibal Lecter, far beyond the bounds of his experience.  It is possible Clarice Starling could frighten him.  Sex is a splendid structure they add to every day."

 

Given Fuller's own preferences and the fact that Hugh and Mads don't shy away from expressing tenderness and warmth and love, I can see Fuller flirting with the idea of going here, but not doing it because so an overt expression would overtake the show I'm afraid.  It's a bit like X-Files.  Once Mulder and Scully consummated, the show unfortunately had trouble dealing with it.  The show runners chose to be coy and keep it off screen.  That wouldn't work on Hannibal.  But then it would be the show about their sexual/romantic relationship and not all the other wonderful things going on.  Or maybe I'm underestimating the American public.  Or maybe Fuller just loves the tease and fortunately with only three seasons, just having a tease is enough. 

[Captanne]

It's called the "Moonlighting Syndrome".  The only show I saw that handled it really well (solved it, actually) was La Femme Nikita (1995.)  Because the two Crazy Kids lived a life where their very existence was based on day to day survival and keeping secrets -- every time they met was as if the story was starting all over again.  That solved the problem of "So, they did it.  Now what?"  The "Now what?" became, "Holy shit, how do they meet again to be together without being cancelled?"  (Cancelled was the euphemism for being killed by the organization they worked for.)

 

That show was beyond marvelous.

[paramitch]

I'm still catching up... I had some deadlines, so have been running a bit behind.

 

I wondered if Reba was aware that Francis wasn't alone in the house when she came to visit. I mean, Frederick probably peed himself at the least, and he was sweating pretty hard. Plus that glue probably stank. I don't know.

I thought the moment was well-played -- we see Reba make a slight questioning face, as if she does in fact smell something odd or frightening, but then she only gets those few moments and Francis has her back out the door again.

 

The relationship has never been sexual between them, but more emotional. They fill an emotional need in each other. I have known heterosexual men who have deep emotional friendships with each other. And this one may not be beneficial (especially to Will) but it has always felt real.

This was well-put. I'd also add that Will may in fact be mostly heterosexual but that his Kinsey scale slid a bit when he met Hannibal. People are complex. It doesn't bother me that these two men may be, for instance, primarily heterosexual yet their feelings for each other defy their previous preferences. Although, like others, I just don't see this as a relationship that will ever be or could ever be consummated. (I haven't seen the last episode yet, though, so all bets are off, hee)

 

It is getting harder to imagine a heroic ending for Will. If they are in the Inferno, is Purgatory next?

I still think Will is heroic and that he's doing what he can to stop both Hannibal and his acolytes. Speaking of which, I love how the continued mentions of Dante help to tie the first half of this season to the second half. Really nicely and subtly done.

 

Chaos Theory we can be a Bedelia fan club of two! Hee. Actually Will has a brunette, a blonde, and a redhead nattering at him. I wonder if that color scheme matters.

The film Red Dragon explains Francis' s issues in a very compact and uncomplex way. It isn't a subtle movie. But they get it done in 5 min. We have had one flashback dinner scene in 5 eps. Given the actor they hired this portrait should have been so much more. 

Hey, I'll sit at y'all's table too! I love Bedelia and think Gillian Anderson has done some superb work in the role on the show. She has the same chilly sensuality that Mads does. I adore her.

 

I disliked "Red Dragon" as a film, but I do wish the show had used some of those shortcuts (and the book's) to enrich Francis as a character. It would have taken very little to show us that he was a horrifically abused child and that all the feminine things around (including, I assume, the pads, etc.) belonged to his now-dead grandmother (whose teeth he wears to kill).

 

--Will set up Frederick  It was partially Alana's idea and Jack fully supported the effort, but Will knew what he was doing.  Having two guys on Frederick wasn't nearly enough protection.  Frederick should have been kept in a fully secure location during the "operation".  Unlike the book and film versions, there WAS reason to think he might go after Chilton.  In the books he goes after Freddie and it's a bit of a curve ball.

 

I know it's a common response that "Will set up Chilton" in this episode, but I really want to counter that. I don't believe he did. Chilton enthusiastically took part in the talk with Freddie, and I just don't think Will's impulsive request for Chilton to join him in the picture was meant as an act of actual premeditation or to incite violence. Yes, I think Will was as little peeved at Chilton, who was doing that lofty arrogance he does so well, and in a moment of pique, he invited Chilton to join him in the picture. I do think his impulse to do so wasn't a good one, but it's a far cry from Will actively setting up the guy to be tortured and killed. I just think Will had a human moment of exasperation, and was like, "Fine, come get in the picture, you silly little man," perhaps even thinking he'd be humiliated or scared at some point. But I don't believe Will actually thought he was setting Chilton up to die there.

 

I think before she met Hannibal she believed she was a good therapist who thought she cared about people, but after she realized she's still a good therapist who just doesn't like people.

I still think that one of the paradoxes about Bedelia is that she loves Hannibal and loathes him, that she is attracted to him and mesmerized by him, but that she is also genuinely repulsed by his actions. What I love about Gillian Anderson in the role is that she manages to play Bedelia as both attracted and repelled, and as both disconnected and also viscerally, absolutely terrified. I still believe she is as terrified of Hannibal as she is attracted to him, and that her being in love with him hasn't changed that at all.

 

We've seen little of Francis interacting with others outside of Reba.  The clearest indication of how he appears to others are Reba's description of how their coworkers see him and his entry into the museum to see the painting.  Up until he knocked out the archivist, he seemed normal, if reticent.

Purgatory and Paradise follow, but that's assuming Will makes it out of the Inferno.  The ninth and lowest circle is for traitors.  If Will gives in to Hannibal's attempts to turn him into a copy-cannibal, he will have betrayed himself entirely.  I think he wants Francis to survive and be treated so that he can't e carried any farther into the killer mindset.

Beautifully put.

 

I like listening to Bedelia; she sounds like she's trying to keep her composure and what she really wants to do is start screaming.  

This! That's why I don't mind the slow speech. All I see with Bedelia each time is a woman who cannot seem to wake up from the nightmare she's fallen into.

 

Jack, over his shoulder, is horrified to see how Will really operates.  He says, "You feel sorry for this guy!?"  And Will replies, "I feel sorry for the child he was.  Now?  he's a sick fuck who needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth."

 

That was fucking WONDERFUL and the actors knocked it out of the park.

I agree -- I love that entire scene, and that's the essence of the good at the heart of Will Graham. He can still have empathy for the child Francis was while understanding the need to remove him the world at large. My favorite scene in the entire film, though, is his quiet scene with Kevin (Molly's son), when he's trying to explain what the kid found out about (that he was in a mental hospital). Kevin asks about the thoughts Will was having, and are they really that bad, and Will just quietly responds, "They're the worst thoughts in the whole world." He says it with so much love and quiet emotion, it's by far Petersen's best performance ever for me.

 

It's called the "Moonlighting Syndrome".  The only show I saw that handled it really well (solved it, actually) was La Femme Nikita (1995.)  Because the two Crazy Kids lived a life where their very existence was based on day to day survival and keeping secrets -- every time they met was as if the story was starting all over again.  That solved the problem of "So, they did it.  Now what?"  The "Now what?" became, "Holy shit, how do they meet again to be together without being cancelled?"  (Cancelled was the euphemism for being killed by the organization they worked for.)

I have to argue this, though, as it's a pet peeve of mine. There have been a lot of articles about the fact that the "Moonlighting Curse" didn't really exist, and that the problems of "Moonlighting" in that season were far less about the consummation of the romance, than about the zillion other problems in the production at that point (which was falling apart, and it quickly showed onscreen). Many, many shows have continued to prosper long after the characters consummated their romances -- "Cheers," "Felicity," "Friends," "Frasier," "Chuck," "Fringe," "Castle," "Bones," "New Girl," "Farscape," "Parks and Recreation," etc., and that's just off the top of my head. Plenty of shows have thrived after the lead or headline couple consummated the relationship.  (Apologies for the brief soapbox...)

 

Although it wouldn't really be applicable here, anyway, since there is no more "Hannibal" after the next episode, so whether Will and Hannibal do or don't turn the subtext into text, there would be no show left for the relationship to tank.

[Captanne]

I agree about the Petersen/Kevin dialogue.

 

I just loved "Manhunter" SO much.

 

Point well taken about the Moonlighting Syndrome -- although that name still circulates and sticks.  I understand what it refers to but, admittedly, I only saw brief moments of Moonlighting.  Although I was certainly old enough to watch it, I thought Cybil Shepherd was miscast so I didn't enjoy it.  Bruce Willis was a treat, though, and I still like his performances and enjoy watching him although I haven't in years.

[MisterGlass]

 

Yes, I think Will was as little peeved at Chilton, who was doing that lofty arrogance he does so well, and in a moment of pique, he invited Chilton to join him in the picture. I do think his impulse to do so wasn't a good one, but it's a far cry from Will actively setting up the guy to be tortured and killed.

 

I think the most troubling part is that Will (and Alana and Jack) see Chilton as disposable.  Alana is explicitly unwilling to bait The Tooth Fairy because it's dangerous, and none of them have any compunction about inviting Frederick to do just that.

[Crossbow]

I think the most troubling part is that Will (and Alana and Jack) see Chilton as disposable.  Alana is explicitly unwilling to bait The Tooth Fairy because it's dangerous, and none of them have any compunction about inviting Frederick to do just that.

 

I suspect they were relying on us hating Chilton because of the movies, without having made him very hatable on the show.

[Brattinella]

I really DID hate Chilton, but only in SotL.  He was a horrible character and deserved what he got.  In this Hannibal universe, not so much.

[Crossbow]

True, he doesn't do much in Red Dragon. In SotL he's a total asswipe.

[crowswork]

I wonder if Jack wasn't setting up both Hannibal and Will to die and cover his ass in the Chilton fiasco.

[Brattinella]

I wonder if Jack wasn't setting up both Hannibal and Will to die and cover his ass in the Chilton fiasco.

 

That's a good guess.  I never thought of that!

[Crossbow]

I wonder if Jack wasn't setting up both Hannibal and Will to die and cover his ass in the Chilton fiasco.

 

Jack never balks at using anyone as bait, but so far he's always done it with informed consent. I don't think he'd set up Chilton without telling him. But I still think it was out of character for Chilton not to insist on his own SWAT team just in case. He always thinks he's so important.

[Ailianna]

I'm guessing that's why Chilton had the two body guards he did.  He just didn't know Will was getting full SWAT or he would have known to insist on that.  He probably thought he had the appropriate level of protection the same as Will.  I'm sure they don't clear their deployments with him.

[paramitch]

I agree about the Petersen/Kevin dialogue.

 

I just loved "Manhunter" SO much.

Oh, so do I!

 

I honestly think it's one of the films I've grown to love more as the years went by, not less. I love how quiet it is, how vivid, how gorgeous the visuals are, how beautiful and evocative the dialogue is. It will always be one of my favorite thrillers, and the moment when Will has the epiphany where he realizes how Dolarhyde is picking his victims is one of the most exciting single moments in any thriller you'll find, ever. And it's just a guy sitting on a hotel bed, fiercely looking inward to understand a killer.

 

I think the most troubling part is that Will (and Alana and Jack) see Chilton as disposable.  Alana is explicitly unwilling to bait The Tooth Fairy because it's dangerous, and none of them have any compunction about inviting Frederick to do just that.

 

This is a good point. I think for me, the POV isn't that he's disposable so much as 'discardable.' They disregard him. He means little to them. I will say that I don't think this means they wish him harm. But it does also mean they didn't consider that much harm might arise for him from what they chose to do. Poor Chilton.

[queenanne]

I know it's a common response that "Will set up Chilton" in this episode, but I really want to counter that. I don't believe he did. Chilton enthusiastically took part in the talk with Freddie, and I just don't think Will's impulsive request for Chilton to join him in the picture was meant as an act of actual premeditation or to incite violence. Yes, I think Will was as little peeved at Chilton, who was doing that lofty arrogance he does so well, and in a moment of pique, he invited Chilton to join him in the picture. I do think his impulse to do so wasn't a good one, but it's a far cry from Will actively setting up the guy to be tortured and killed. I just think Will had a human moment of exasperation, and was like, "Fine, come get in the picture, you silly little man," perhaps even thinking he'd be humiliated or scared at some point. But I don't believe Will actually thought he was setting Chilton up to die there.

 

The problem with this is, once they've set up Will as a character who is near omnipotent in his profiling, and uncanny in the way his mind works, that you always expect him to have done something with complete cognizance three steps ahead - and I say this not forgetting how Hannibal had him snowed and screwed with the encephalitis.

 

I suspect they were relying on us hating Chilton because of the movies, without having made him very hatable on the show.

 

I don't know if anybody concertedly or concentratedly decided anything so solid, except an unwillingness to have him killed; partly I think it was down to Raul Esparza imbuing the man/role with quiet dignity.  "On paper", Harris's Chilton is always a fool, and comes off at a disadvantage when compared to the brilliant Hannibal; which is some mouthful to confess to on the part of the audience, or achieve as a writer, considering the quality and character of Hannibal.  Harris's Chilton is a mockable caricature whom we are supposed to hate more than Hannibal.  We're supposed to root for Hannibal or anyone to beat him.

Edited September 15, 2015 by queenanne

[Bruinsfan]

Watching Season 1 for the first time made me feel a bit better about Chilton's fate. His messing around with Dr. Gideon's identity for self-aggrandizement was a major contributing factor in a number of innocent people's deaths. That, more than anything regarding Hannibal himself, might justify Alana's disregard for him.

 

I do have to say that he was admirable at the last in not making so much as a whimper in order to protect Reba. I'm not sure I'd have had the fortitude to do the same in that situation.

[Crossbow]

I hadn't thought of it that way, but the job he did on Gideon did kill the nurse and the guards and almost got Alana killed.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

 

The problem with this is, once they've set up Will as a character who is near omnipotent in his profiling, and uncanny in the way his mind works, that you always expect him to have done something with complete cognizance three steps ahead - and I say this not forgetting how Hannibal had him snowed and screwed with the encephalitis.

 

 

I don't know if anybody concertedly or concentratedly decided anything so solid, except an unwillingness to have him killed; partly I think it was down to Raul Esparza imbuing the man/role with quiet dignity.  "On paper", Harris's Chilton is always a fool, and comes off at a disadvantage when compared to the brilliant Hannibal; which is some mouthful to confess to on the part of the audience, or achieve as a writer, considering the quality and character of Hannibal.  Harris's Chilton is a mockable caricature whom we are supposed to hate more than Hannibal.  We're supposed to root for Hannibal or anyone to beat him.

 

Not only have they made Will omnipotent in his profiling and shown to know very much how the serial killer he is working on feels and thinks, in that scene he is the one actively calling Chilton in to the picture. It is one thing for Chilton to want to be in the picture and Will exasperated, agreeing to it. It is another for him to purposefully invite Chilton in to the frame, when the man is just happy to have done his part in helping them out (including giving the kind of interview THEY wanted him to give) and was just sitting the rest out. The plan was for Will and Will alone to rile the Dragon up. The picture was also supposed to be all about Will and giving a hint to Red Dragon on where to find him. It was all so meticulously planned and geared toward making Red Dragon strike. Then Will goes ahead and invited Chilton into the picture. and doesn't just stop there, he also puts his hand on his shoulder. That is why he doesn't really oppose it when he is accused of setting Chilton up. He knows what he did.  and yet, I don't think he was "purposefully" planning Chilton to be hurt and/or killed. It was the dark side of Will getting the better of him, doing something out of curiosity ("hmmm, wonder if the Dragon will go for Chilton if I signal him as my pet?") and it is not something he does %100 aware. He realizes it only after being called out on it.That is kind of the difference between Hannibal and Will. Hannibal creates chaos, and sets people up for horrible things out of curiosity and because he likes it and he does so fully aware and on purpose. There is a part of Will that has the same kind of curiosity and the potential for creating that chaos, but it is not something he taps into, or acknowledges. He is not actively creating chaos... He doesn't get a kick out of it the way Hannibal does. But the potential is there and it is that potential that Hannibal is trying to unearth...

 

 

I  think they did want this Chilton to be more competent and likeable than his book/movie versions. I remember him talking about Will if memory serves) and his inability to crack him using the line "Fumbles at his head like a freshman pulling at a panty girdle" which is a  disparaging line Hannibal uses regarding Chilton in the movies. ı think it makes a difference. When Hannbal saiid it, It was him mocking Chilton for his lack of talent and ability and knowledge, When it is Chilton who says it, the same line just because something he said to voice his own frustration at dealing with a difficult patient and gains him some points for being selfaware and realizing his limits.. He wanted fame and success, and could be rather sleazy about it all and wasn't as brilliant as Hannibal and Alana in his line of work (and seemed to know that), but could still manage to make some good observation and was right about a number of things. The man was onto Hannibal before Alana an Jack woke up to the fact, that alone gains him lots of points from me!

[MisterGlass]

Well, Will was onto Hannibal.  Chilton had enough sense to believe him.