S13.E23: Sister Helen Prejean, Lawrence Wilkerson, Jennifer Granholm, Doug Heye, Talib Kweli

[GHScorpiosRule]

Criminal justice activist Sister Helen Prejean, retired U.S. Army Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, former Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm, communications expert Doug Heye,  and musician and civil rights activist Talib Kweli.

[scrb]

It's alarming the poll that Bill cited, Hilary losing some battleground states to Walker.

[Ruby25]

I think it's way too early to worry about Hillary yet. When the primaries actually start going next year, we'll see how she measures up to the Republican candidates. In the polls I've seen she's still beating all of them, so even if she's not the most charismatic person in the world, I still think people will vote for her in the end over whoever the GOP puts up (probably Jeb Bush, who's turning out to be a way shittier candidate than I thought he'd be- I think he's worse than Romney).

 

Also with someone like her, who is such a known quantity that people have been familiar with for three decades now, as First Lady and Secretary of State, I don't think lack of charisma will matter as much as it might to someone who's unknown and really needs to make a splash (like Obama in '08 for example).

[ganesh]

I actually would be worried that there's going to be a huge hate-Clinton vote turnout. I hope Sanders can energize all the people who are into him now to vote for her.

 

I was surprised that Bill brought up the Iran deal already, but I liked it. I thought the guy on the left was going to be a typical blowhard, but he was really good on all the topics. When he started rambling on about how he has experience with Iran this and that, I thought he was going to be like, "this deal is awful." I was pleasantly surprised by his frankness. And it goes to show you, that people like the guy sitting closest to Bill, are just con artists with no belief systems that just bloviate the talking points. The other guy and the woman shut him down so hard. Because he was wrong on everything and they weren't taking any of his garbage. That woman took him *down*. He totally had to capitulate at the end. It was like, "hey this isn't me, I'm spouting the usual stuff, please don't hate me." Or you could have an informed opinion on something like the other guy, who literally was present when Reagan sold arms for hostages and said that the USA Middle East policy was terrible. +100 XP for Land War In Asia.

 

Blaming the media for Trump? I've been saying for a while, and I'm not seeing a counterpoint anywhere: the republican establishment is *terrified* of Trump because they know their base, on average, and not everyone, are largely racist and not big on women's rights. And their older, so they're going to be voting actually. Or say, afraid of nonwhites than racist. *Everyone* knows Trump couldn't win a general election. That "debate" was a farce. Fox News, whether directed by the gop, or taking it upon themselves, made it their mission to get him to implode. They blew it, big time. They know for sure that it's game over if Trump runs as a third party. Though I don't know why he would because even he knows he couldn't win. He might do it just out of spite.

 

I thought Bill's piece on what each candidate has to say about women, etc., was well done too. Actually this was surprisingly a solid show. 

[attica]

I was with Wilkerson on every point until he said that Trump undermines the Republican Party. The truth of the matter is Trump is what the Republican Party has done to itself. And no, it can't win a presidential general election in this incarnation. Roger Ailes has a fundamental problem. Audiences love Trump. Voters, not at all. By showcasing Trump, he'll get ratings hand over fist, no matter how much the Foxholes try to take him down. And Ailes won't sacrifice audience share when it comes down to it, and because the republicans will chase after the Fox audience, they'll abandon the voters. Who will put another dem in the White House.

 

I think Prejean and Bill were talking past each other re: confession. Bill was talking (I think) about the specific sacrament, and Prejean was talking about something less formal. She can take a confession, sure, but she can't (officially) dispense penance/absolution. So can I, as far as that goes.

 

I often think the mid-show bit is tired and lame, but I'll admit I got a kick out of the kids' book. Rhyming 'adore us' with 'clitoris' pleased me (despite my preferred pronunciation putting the stress on the first syllable).

[ganesh]

I think Prejean and Bill were talking past each other re: confession. Bill was talking (I think) about the specific sacrament, and Prejean was talking about something less formal.

 

This was a very stimulating interview. I thought she was actually advocating quite a progressive pov; she's heard, literally, death row confessions. She seemed to be quite overly critical on what confession means. Bill really missed her point. Though I agree that she wasn't able to address Bill's point about confession, and to Bill's credit, he asked why she wasn't qualified to hear confessions.

 

When I had to go through the church, I found confession ridiculous. What "sins" would a preteen have to confess? Literally a 9 y/o. "My room is messy." No, it's not. Because my mother is a nurse and she wouldn't stand for that. The fact that the priest didn't know that, told me he didn't really care about me as a person. Such a farce. 

 

Which my point, why shouldn't that woman hear confessions? She can say she hears them all the time, but literally her church denies her the right to give absolution. I am totally confounded as to why someone who does such good work isn't allowed equality in the organization to which they've dedicated their life.

[opus]

Sister Helen Prejean seemed pretty happy Susan Sarandon played her in the movie.

[LADreamr]

Very good show, and that book needs to be published. Talib Kweli was a nice surprise. This was my first exposure to him. I wish we could have heard more. He was great.

[HelenBaby]

I'm glad that Talib Kweli cares about community & all that but he really never addressed the Black Lives Matter deal in Seattle. From what I've read, the reason that he was interrupted there & at Netroots Nation was that he lacks sufficient security to keep the interrupters at bay. The folks in Seattle never really had a plan beyond disruption and that they were conservatives. Sanders gave up the microphone because he's truly a man of the people, but these people interrupted a meeting about Social Security, not a political rally. Sanders just happened to be there. Neither Bill nor Talib addressed it, like they didn't really know what happened. I'm very supportive of the movement and don't like it being hijacked by people with suspect agendas.

Douglas Heye is a stupid turd. If he can't see what women care about beyond jobs, then I can't help him. It's like he's saying that "let's not talk about this, look at this shiny object over here" will win women over. He was utterly ridiculous.

Frankly I thought it was a poor show. Very forgettable.

[NextIteration]

From what I've read, the reason that he was interrupted there & at Netroots Nation was that he lacks sufficient security to keep the interrupters at bay. 

 

Whatever you are reading is off base.  Sanders is easiest to disrupt because he deals in such a direct way with the public but they disrupted him, again, because disruption and taking space is what they intend to do to call attention to their movement.  And any articles that slammed one of the gals in Seattle about being a Sarah Palin supporter are off base as well, she's interviewed that as a teen she believed in her parent's Tea Party politics but has since evolved and has completely immersed herself in the #BlackLivesMatter movement.

 

I think Lawrence Wilkerson is my favorite Republican on the planet, not saying much since I only actually like about 10 of them anymore.

[attica]

If he can't see what women care about beyond jobs, then I can't help him.

 

Srsly. If a  woman doesn't have reproductive autonomy, all other issues are kind of secondary. How do you keep a job, let alone a career, if you have no control over how often you're popping out kids? See: Duggars, the lot of them. 

[iMonrey]

Pundits like Doug Heye are so insufferable. Doesn't he see how defensive he sounds talking a mile a minute and interrupting everyone? Bill had to press him three times to spell out the alternative to the Iran deal before he finally said "no deal is better than this deal." How on earth is that true? I have to laugh every time he tries to say the opinion is bi-partisan. Cherry pick a handful of Democrats and then pretend both sides are equally against the deal.

 

The only reason any Democrats are against the Iran deal is the same reason Democrats ran away from Obama during the mid-term elections. They're afraid of losing their jobs in the next election if they side with Obama. It's just so dumb, it's the reason Democrats lost the Senate during the mid-terms and they still haven't learned anything.

 

I did get a chuckle out of "The Mysterious People Who Aren't Men." One of Bill's better bits.

[ganesh]

Bill had to press him three times to spell out the alternative to the Iran deal before he finally said "no deal is better than this deal."

 

And that doesn't answer it either. It's just their talking point. It means it's a bad deal because Obama. Never mind that a multitude of nobels and others who are prominent in the field of nonproliferation, one of which I've met twice, wrote a letter supporting the deal. What do you know that they don't? What exactly do you think is wrong with the deal that an expert, who North Korea literally insisted be part of any diplomatic mission last decade, has put himself on record in support of? 

 

The only legit criticism I've heard is that it's really hard to get everyone to re apply sanctions once they all let them up. That's fair. Hopefully we won't need it, but the process does seem hard. The USA didn't give up anything. 

 

I've said before, one of Obama's really smart subtle part of the negotiations was framing it as a technical problem and having the Secretary of Energy and his counterpart be on board on these negotiations. 

[elzin]

This was one of my favorite episodes in a while because I didn't want to smack anyone beyond reason the entire time. Sure, here and there (as Bill can't stop fat shaming and his muslim issues) but it wasn't outrageous and constant. No one guest on the panel ran over everyone and when nonsense was spouted, it was called out.  I don't mind seeing guests I disagree with provided that they don't ramble and fall back on standard talking points or another guest puts then in their place(s). A coherent guest making a reasonable point might even get me to change my mind, but lately the guests have been repellent.