S01.E08: eps1.7_wh1ter0se.m4v

[formerlyfreedom]

Allsafe is controlled, the Dark Army is ready to meet Elliot & Tyrell and Joanna's plan goes into effect.

 

 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

No, Just fucking NO!

No, Just fucking NO!

No, Just fucking NO!

[nilyank]

I can't remember but have Darlene and Angela shared any scenes together?

 

I knew Slater was the daddy and Eliot should have remembered him when he pushed him for the second time and got injured.

[benteen]

Just when I thought the episode was getting boring, they throw that swerve in at the end.  Wow.

 

It would explain the opening scene as to why Darlene and Angela were hanging out but how do you forget your own sister?  I can buy Elliot blocking out his own father who died 20 years ago.  But his sister?

 

Tyrell is an absolute mess.

[thuganomics85]

Heh, was I suppose to be stunned by that final revelation?  Darlene ending up being Elliot's sister was more shocking.  But surprise, surprise: Mr. Robot/Christian Slater was Elliot's dad this entire time.  So, unless his death was somehow a completely elaborate cover-up, he really has been in Elliot's head this entire time.  Oh, show.  I kind of expected better of you, but at the same time, not really.

 

I don't think we've seen Darlene/Angela scenes before this, so I guess her being Elliot's sister is the reason for that, so we wouldn't be questioning why they seem to be on friendly terms.

 

So, Tyrell really did fuck things up?  The plan was apparently to seduce the wife and blackmail Scott, so killing her was all him.  Nice going, Tyrell.  Now the cops are here, but it seems like his wife might have done something to herself?  I was confused about that part.  She said her water broke, but there was that bloody fork as well.

 

The BD Wong appearance was something.  Certainly the first time I've ever seen him look like that.  At least it prevented me from making any references to his Law & Order: SVU character, or make jokes about him wanting Elliot to help him create a dinosaur hybrid, like his character did in Jurassic World. 

 

Poor Gideon.  He really does seem like a decent guy, but Elliot is just fucking him over.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Before tonight, don't recall Darlene and Angela talking to each other.

My reaction above is to that reveal, why must she be his sister?

Ugh.

[Cardie]

Certainly the first time I've ever seen him look like that.

 

Wong's big break came when he played the female impersonator Chinese opera star who seduces a French diplomat in the play M. Butterfly. So this was old hat for him.

 

I have to give the show credit that, while telegraphing who Mr. Robot is, snuck in sister Darlene totally under the radar. Boy, I had no idea Elliot was this crazy. Perhaps he and Tyrell once shared neighboring beds in the loony bin. There must have been some trauma worse than his Dad's death to make him erase his whole identity.

[sluggish neko]

They got me. There was a lot of talk about distractions in this episode and still, I was too focused on the whole why of Mr. Robot (who a lot of people guessed was his dad-- good job!) that I didn't see the Darlene sister reveal coming. The ballet scene was a clue, but mostly my thought was more along the lines of hey, it's the two blondes who represent the two sides of Elliot's life and wait, they know each other?!? And it seems this isn't the first time Elliot's forgotten her. Jeez, how many times has he erased and remade his identity?

 

Sometimes I think Tyrell is an alien impersonating a human corporate go-getter and failing comically at it. When the police came for him, I wasn't worried (even though he was totally cracking under the pressure) because that wife of his is cooler than a cucumber (or pickle or whatever it was she was munching). I knew she'd take care of it. And now, he believes in Elliot's mission? I wonder if they had an agreement from the beginning that Elliot "forgot" like the one Elliot had with White Rose.

 

Ollie's email titled "on the verge of tears" cracked me up.

[Cardie]

Early on Darlene seemed creepy because she would barge in to the home of this guy she'd just met, seemed to have the keys and would use his stuff without asking. It was one reason she annoyed me no end. That's all explained now.

[atir]

Clearly I missed something(s). The dad/Mr Robot is dead??? How did he have that convo in the car with Tyrell?

[shapeshifter]

So I'm guessing the meds he's supposed to be taking are anti-psychotics for schizophrenia, right? (which have a low compliance rate because of the side effects--which I've never seen accurately portrayed on TV)

If this were a different kind of show, Tyrell's wife would have planted a post-hypnotic suggestion on him that caused him to involuntarily kill the CTO's wife.

Edited August 13, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Cardie]

The dad/Mr Robot is dead??? How did he have that convo in the car with Tyrell?

 

Prevailing assumption is that he's an alternate personality of Elliot's--in the shape of his deceased father--and when Elliot loses all sense of himself and becomes Mr. Robot, that's who we see, while others see Rami Malek. There is of course the possibility that the elder Alderton faked his death and has been manipulating his son and daughter, but that seems less likely.

[DEM]

Wow. I did not see that Darlene swerve coming!!  During the Angela/Darlene scene I was racking my brain trying to remember whether they'd ever had a scene together. Given that I couldn't remember that happening yet they were so chummy, I figured my memory must have been faulty.  Wooosh!

 

Wasn't Darlene's over-familiarity with Elliot in the early eps one of the first things that clued people in that all was not right with Elliot?

 

As I said way back in one of the early episodes, Elliot seems to dealing with a veritable potpourri of mental health issues.  As best I understand this episode (a lot to digest!), he seems to have both psychotic and dissociative symptoms.

 

In other news, BD Wong was great as Whiterose, and Tyrell Wellick continues to make awful life choices. Everyone knows you act normal and talk to the police when they first come knocking; save the freakout for later. I was surprised, though, that Sharon Knowles' murder wasn't in the news.

Edited August 13, 2015 by DEM

[Netfoot]

My head just exploded.  Like... a coffee pot full of coconut milk and wolf blood!

[yourmomiseasy]

I was surprised at the ballet scene and assumed that Angela was not as innocent as she seemed and involved in the hack somehow and Darlene and Angela were playing/manipulating Elliot and maybe Angela was the one that suggested actually getting him involved.  This train of thought also put her framing her boyfriend for the Allsafe hack in a new light.  So I was blown away at the sister reveal.   

 

So, Tyrell really did fuck things up?  The plan was apparently to seduce the wife and blackmail Scott, so killing her was all him.  Nice going, Tyrell.  Now the cops are here, but it seems like his wife might have done something to herself?  I was confused about that part.  She said her water broke, but there was that bloody fork as well.

I'm assuming she used the small fork to break her water, hence it becoming bloody.  I don't know how the trauma would be explained away at the hospital though.

[Wax Lion]

At first, I thought the ballet scene was going to tell us Darlene was investigating Elliot by getting to know Angela but then Angela clearly knew that they had Ellot in common.

 

Seducing Scott's wife, taking pictures and using them as blackmail seems like a rather... banal plan for Tyrell and his wife.

 

BD Wong was great as Whiterose. I hope Whiterose breaks her word about not seeing Elliot again.

[Cardie]

I was surprised, though, that Sharon Knowles' murder wasn't in the news.

 

In one sequence a television showed a bunch of police cars with lights on at a nighttime crime scene. I assumed that was reporting about Sharon Knowles' murder.

[shapeshifter]

BD Wong was great as Whiterose. I hope Whiterose breaks her word about not seeing Elliot again.

As White Rose was leaving, Elliot finally asked why she was involved in the hack--which I thought might have been a worthy question. However, WR also seems like a good candidate for being just another hallucination. Regardless, I'm guessing the reappearance of WR hinges on the availability of BD Wong and the continuation of Mr. Robot.

[benteen]

This show is going to be fascinating on a rewatch.

[DEM]

In one sequence a television showed a bunch of police cars with lights on at a nighttime crime scene. I assumed that was reporting about Sharon Knowles' murder.

 

No, the story was about the verdict in the Boston Bomber case.  Joanna seemed honestly not to know of Knowles' death until the police told her.  And then she calmly went into the kitchen and stabbed her placenta with an hors d'oeuvre fork! Wow. Nerves of steel.

[editorgrrl]

I was surprised, though, that Sharon Knowles' murder wasn't in the news.

Also, no mention of Shayla's body being found in the trunk of a car with Elliot's fingerprints all over it—nor the prison break.

This show is going to be fascinating on a rewatch.

After the first episode, I thought this show was going to require a rewatch. After the second, I was convinced. But I thought it'd be after the finale—not before it.

Edited August 13, 2015 by editorgrrl

[that one guy]

I can't remember but have Darlene and Angela shared any scenes together?

 

The ballet class was the first time we'd seen it on screen. Angela's warmth toward her was the first clue that things were not what they seemed.

 

Explained:

Darlene has a key to Elliot's house. He doesn't like her barging in because he knows she's there to check up on him and make sure he's stable and taking his pills.

This is why she was helping him with the whole Shayla situation.

 

Not explained:

Is Mr. Robot real? I'm guessing not, but only because of the early-episode scene where he's hanging out in a work station at Allsafe. He knows Angela works there, and Angela at least believes him to be dead. If he's faking it, he would avoid a place where he's so likely to be recognized.  So he's gotta be Tyler Durden.

 

Still only the second craziest character on the show. Tyrell might get away with this though. The correct answer to how well do you know the deceased is "yes, I was sleeping with her." It explains away the physical evidence and supplies a motive for the husband to be the murderer. Puts the whole thing in "reasonable doubt" territory anyway.

[cardigirl]

Okay, I'm clearly not smart enough for this show, but I enjoy it anyway. 

 

But...no Flipper this show.  Figment of Elliot's madness?

[rubendodge]

OMG this show is pure insanity. I love it so much it actually has plot twists like none other and unexpected changes! Love it!

Plus it helps I love hacking and technology and this shows focused on that!

Edited August 13, 2015 by rubendodge

[that one guy]

The internets just told me that the book Mr. Robot has been shown reading on several occasions is Leo Tolstoy's Resurrection. Which would imply that he is, in fact, dead.

[taragel]

Prevailing assumption is that he's an alternate personality of Elliot's--in the shape of his deceased father--and when Elliot loses all sense of himself and becomes Mr. Robot, that's who we see, while others see Rami Malek. There is of course the possibility that the elder Alderton faked his death and has been manipulating his son and daughter, but that seems less likely.

 

I actually took the reveal to mean he has been alive this whole time (not a faking his death scenario just regular old alive) and that Darlene knew that and was working on F Society with him but Elliot is so fractured that he created an alternate reality where the guy was dead. But then I guess that wouldn't explain Angela knowing/acknowledging his father's death, which I think she has done. I'm not sure if Darlene ever talked about his (their) father's death. 

 

I thought it was kind of an awesome twist but I'll be slighlty disappointed if Dad is still really ghost dad/Tyler Durden dad.

 

ETA: Reading more posts above it seems that really is the case, so now I'm a little less impressed. I still liked the sister twist though and it makes me want to binge rewatch the whole series with that bit of knowledge in mind. Maybe when it's over.

Edited August 13, 2015 by taragel

[cpcathy]

I can't wait til this gets to Netflix, so I can go over each scene carefully.

 

Random thought:  Oh, how I hate Joanna. More than Tyrell.

[DEM]

An eagle-eyed redditer with a mind like a steel trap noticed that the little girl in the withdrawal/dream sequence from 1x04 was Darlene.

[Primetimer]

A little list of big twists on Mr. Robot.

Read the story

[Cardie]

Once I assumed Mr. Robot was an hallucination, which was pretty early in the run, it nagged at me how Elliot found fsociety. I concluded that he had actually founded it when in full Robot mode. That may still be the case, but Darlene recruiting him is now another possibility.

[editorgrrl]

An eagle-eyed redditer with a mind like a steel trap noticed that the little girl in the withdrawal/dream sequence from 1x04 was Darlene.

Great catch! Elliot mentioned it after he remembered Darlene's his sister (and pulled up his hood):

Darlene and I'd hide in movie theaters all day. Darlene'd sing "Frere Jacques." She rode her scooter in front of our house. I'm crazy. She tried to run away in the third grade. How come I didn't remember that? Slept in the same bed when our mom was mean to us. Why did I forget? I remember her voice. How could I forget? I'm crazy.

Are you freaking out? Tell me the truth. Were you in on this the whole time? Were you?

Think, goddamnit, think. How could I just forget her like that? A whole person, a relationship. Is this amnesia? What else am I not remembering? I'm crazy. I should have stayed on the meds. I'm crazy. I'm out of my mind. I knew it. I should have never created you. I should have listened to Krista.

[Looking into a mirror:] I avoid myself. Why? I'm afraid. Okay, afraid of what? Finding too much, too little, nothing at all. Do I even exist? See me, Elliot Alderson. I am here. [He breaks the mirror.] Now I'm gone.

[Gwen-Stacys]

Not explained:

Is Mr. Robot real? I'm guessing not, but only because of the early-episode scene where he's hanging out in a work station at Allsafe. He knows Angela works there, and Angela at least believes him to be dead. If he's faking it, he would avoid a place where he's so likely to be recognized.  So he's gotta be Tyler Durden.

I've seen theories floating around that Mr. Robot is Elliot's stepfather....? IDK about that though. It was an interesting thought.

[timmik]

Best. Ever. Headline.

[riverheightsnancy]

I disagree with some of the ideas on Elliott's issues. I have thought since Episode 1 (and got summarily thumped for wanting realistic depiction of psychiatric disorders in entertainment) that Mr. Robot is real. I would have to go back, but I am fairly certain that in episode 1, Mr. Robot is seen talking to some men at an outdoor cafe across the street from where Elliott was standing (something like that) in one scene and I believe that they turn out to be the guys that drive and are security for Tyrell. We know that they exist. If Mr. Robot is in a scene with Tyrell, without Elliot then he has to be real. If they are going to go the DID (dissociative identity disorder) route, then fine, but sub-personalities (alters) do not know each other exists and do not talk to each other or hallucinate each other (not in any literature that I have read). That is not how it goes. If they want to go with schizophrenia and he hallucinates Mr. Robot, then there are too many instances where other people are present and there is NO REACTION to Elliott talking to himself. Trust me, I have worked with enough patients who do this, and people seeing a person talk to someone not there, react. It is amusing and jarring to see it. 

 

I know that my theory is unpopular ( I always had issues with presentation of same in Fight Club, but loved the actual movie), but I find if they just say, "oh it is some meshing of a bunch of psychiatric disorders and it doesn't have to accurate at all", that makes it cheap and lazy. It is too easy. It is similar to a person waking up and the audience finds out the whole things was a dream or mass hallucination. Cheap. I think that the writer for this show is too smart to go down that road. I would like to think that all of what we have seen is real (said this before in episode 1 thread) and that Elliott does have some type of dissociative/psychotic amnesia (as Darlene stated outright) which causes people to actually not know or remember specific things from their lives and then they begin to doubt the reality of what is happening. They actually do not know what is real or not.  Elliott has potentially numerous psychiatric issues (anxiety d/o, addictions, paranoia, depression, Social anxiety, Autism spectrum, schizophrenia) which can all add to the mix. I know that it is not as sexy as DID, but it is much more realistic and plausible. Maybe they are going with the highly controversial repressed memory syndrome for why Elliott doesn't remember his father (Mr. Robot) or other people?  Maybe his father did something so awful that Elliott repressed him? In the real psychiatric world, that is a very controversial diagnosis, but I could buy it, IF we are shown in the future that his dad was real abusive and did something and based on what Darlene said regarding his forgetting people. Whatever way it pans out, I hope not to be too disappointed, because this is a pretty great show. 

[marcee]

I think they've made it pretty clear that Mr. Robot isn't real. They all look to Elliot for advice (even though Mr. Robot is supposed to be "their leader" who brought Elliot in); it was Elliot that met with WhiteRose (not Mr. Robot); when Darlene discusses everyone's reasons for doing what they're doing, they never once mention Mr. Robot. They've intentionally shown us that no one speaks to both Mr. Robot AND Elliot; it's always one or the other. Then, they go ahead and show us that Mr. Robot was Elliot's father. No wonder Mr. Robot always called him "kiddo" and "pushed" him off the pier (the way his father pushed him through a window). ETA: I forgot to mention that in this episode they showed us he has some "missed time" ie skipping right to the end; possibly to explain that sometimes he functions as himself and sometimes he functions as Mr. Robot. (Yes, like Tyler Durden, "Sometimes, Tyler speaks for me." and "I know this because Tyler knows this.") Mr. Robot even flickers in the mirror when he has his breakdown.

 

The Darlene reveal was the wow-factor for me. That was something I absolutely did not see coming but makes sense in retrospect - good job, writers!

 

Excellent episode.

Edited August 13, 2015 by marcee

[shapeshifter]

We hashed out Mr. Robot being Elliot's father figure back when he pushed him off the wall several episodes ago. Are we now supposed to think MrR/Dad is alive? So confused--but not in a necessarily bad way.

I wonder if this show has been written with the idea that it is supposed to be rewatched after it's over and all is revealed--or will there never be a definitive reveal (other than Darlene and Elliot having similar faces because DNA)?

it helps I love hacking and technology and this shows focused on that!

So maybe I wasn't the only one wishing for a longer riff last week on viewing source code?

[meep.meep]

I suspected the father reveal was going to be the big !OMG! moment in the last episode.  Bringing it out now is really interesting.  So many places they could go.  The Darlene reveal I didn't suspect.

 

And I still don't get the point of the Swedish couple.  Why did they think they could blackmail the CTO?

[cpcathy]

Now I'm perturbed that Christian Slater looks nothing like Rami Malek. Does anyone know Rami's heritage?

[Cardie]

Rami is of Egyptian heritage, as is Sam Esmail. The mother looks more like Elliot, so we can assume he looks like her and she has some "Mediterranean" ancestry. With the surname Alderton, it's no surprise that Elliot's Dad would be more Anglo-looking.

 

Someone mentioned that Elliot was reading Tolstoy's Resurrection to support a theory that he is dead. But that title refers to the experiences of a pampered nobleman who ends up in a Russian prison and learns there of the terrible things done to poor people. He emerges enlightened.

 

I have a feeling that next episode Mr. Robot will take Elliott on a tour of what's actually been going on objectively since Elliot said "Hello" to his imaginary friend, i.e. us the audience. ("Are you freaking out?" You bet we are.) I think the hello moment marked a psychotic break for Elliot.

[cardigirl]

Someone mentioned that Elliot was reading Tolstoy's Resurrection to support a theory that he is dead.

 

 

 

Mr. Robot is reading the Tolstoy.  Of course, one could equal the other I guess.  

[cpcathy]

I guessed Egyptian, but I didn't want to overstep by boundaries by posting it.

[JarvisFolk]

I can't wait til this gets to Netflix, so I can go over each scene carefully.

 

Random thought:  Oh, how I hate Joanna. More than Tyrell.

All the episodes are streaming on usanetwork.com no need to wait for it to come out on netflix.

[meep.meep]

Rami is of Egyptian heritage, as is Sam Esmail. The mother looks more like Elliot, so we can assume he looks like her and she has some "Mediterranean" ancestry. With the surname Alderton, it's no surprise that Elliot's Dad would be more Anglo-looking.

I thought it was Alderson.

 

It was crappy casting to pick a "boy Elliot" who doesn't have big eyes like Rami.  And all this time I thought he was Israeli....

[Cardie]

I thought it was Alderson.

 

Sorry, typo.

[catrice2]

Did they say/show what happened between him and his therapist?

[cpcathy]

Elliot mentioned her in an early voiceover, I had to think, "Wait, who's CHRISTA??"

[editorgrrl]

Did they say/show what happened between him and his therapist?

At the beginning (after the ballet cold open), Elliot said, "I hurt Krista. I don't feel good about that. I hope you're not mad at me, but you have to admit she's just like everyone else: too afraid to peek over their walls for fear of what they might see. Not me—that's what I do. I look."

At the end (after he remembered Darlene's his sister), he said, "I should have listened to Krista."

I still don't get the point of the Swedish couple. Why did they think they could blackmail the CTO?

Tyrell slept with Sharon Knowles and took photos, but even he thought blackmail was too unpredictable. Joanna said, "Scott knows the company won't allow another scandal—especially during the earnings report. We timed this out perfectly. He'll decline the position, and Price will have no choice but to name you CTO."

I still don't understand that last part. Price surprised them by choosing Scott Knowles in the first place. What makes Joanna so sure that Tyrell would get the job?

Edited August 14, 2015 by editorgrrl

[scrb]

How would Scott Knowles be blackmailed by learning that his wife cheated on him?  He'd be the victim, though Joanna said he'd decline the CTO job because the scandal would hurt Evil Corp during earnings season.

 

OK, maybe a personal scandal involving two executives at Evil Corp would cause the stock to dip for a day or a week but would that be reason enough for Scott to decline the CTO job and for Tyrell to be promoted?  If it really worked that way, then Scott would know that Tyrell would be winning the job by his caving to the blackmail.

 

Unless he has some deathly fear of being seen as a cuckold, why would he succumb to the blackmail?  The way he confronted Tyrell, Scott doesn't seem like the type to shrink away from confrontation.

 

Joanna's sense of logic must have been warped by those little pickles she's eating all the time.  Lovely woman but she looks like a feral pig when she's attacking those gherkins.

[artieLange]

Hi guys, new to the boards. Loving this show though as well as the analysis that you guys provide :)

Id like for the story to tell us that Mr Robot was alive this whole time plotting his revenge on evil corp. Elliot's mom kept repeating that his dad didn't do anything to fight evil corp during that short flash back that took place at a bus stop a couple episodes back. I think I recall Elliot mentioning that too before HCS pushed him over.

Would be pretty bad ass of him to come back from the dead with this huge plan, then again the whole leukemia thing would have to be explained away too hmm..

[Ruby25]

I was pretty blown away by this episode, and whatever reservations I had about the fsociety group are gone now, because obviously it IS all going to tie in to Elliott and his relationships with other people. Well done, Esmail. Never saw the Darlene thing coming, and in retrospect it makes sense, and I don't hate her anymore! All her behavior is more logical now.

 

Now, I'm expecting more major revelations regarding either Tyrell, Angela or both. Now that we know Elliott's memory and identity is bonkers, and considering Tyrell's weird conversation with Mr. Robot in the car, the fact that he's also pretty nuts (in increasingly hilarious fashion by the way), and that he's a hacker too, I'm half expecting him to turn out to be his long lost illegitimate brother or something. A family of hackers.

 

And everybody saw Angela in the mirror, right? Maybe she isn't just his childhood friend either, she could be harboring some secret about him or them that he'd completely forgotten too. In fact, I'm wondering if they might have been engaged once, if we're piecing together parts of his dream. That'd make sense, right? Given the melancholy way that she talks and looks at him, I'd believe that it was more than just their childhood traumas between them. Maybe he broke up with her because of his mental issues and then erased from his memory that they were ever a couple.

 

I have a feeling we're in for some more surprises in the last two episodes that are going to render this whole season worth re-watching, just to see if we can piece it all together.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Ruby25