BoJack Horseman - General Discussion

[OhSusannah]

On 9/12/2017 at 11:46 PM, DrSpaceman73 said:

This is the most depressing cartoon ever made. 

I guess you didn't watch the final season of Moral Orel.

 

Though, even with the very downbeat last season I thoroughly recommend you watch Moral Orel. I think you can get some of the episodes if not all of them on YouTube. It is by turns enormously funny and quite dark. It's set in bible-belt middle America, so it is not much like Bojack in setting or theme other than the common thread of how families seem to set up each succeeding generation for their own particular sorrow.

[snarktini]

Bojack was an answer on Jeopardy this week!

[Matt K]

New season September 14th.  https://news.avclub.com/saddle-up-for-a-new-season-of-bojack-horseman-this-sept-1827176596

[Neko]

I binge watched the season, yesterday.  It looks like I'm on a different page than everyone else, because I thought Free Churro was the weakest episode of the season.  I just didn't like it, much.

Also, I've read some comments elsewhere about how Diane has become just as bad as Bojack, which confuses the crap out of me.  Diane wasn't at her best this season, it's true, but in what universe is she just as bad as Bojack, who has screwed many, many people over, without consequence?  Is it because Diane is female and does a couple of selfish, crappy things, this season?  Is that enough to make a woman just as bad as a man who does the shit Bojack does?

Oh, who am I kidding, of course it is. *sigh*

Edited September 15, 2018 by Sweet Summer Child

[Neko]

26 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

I liked it, though it is very hard for me usually to just follow a monologue for a longer period of time.  But I think how high you rate this episode really depends on your own relationship with your parents.If yours is similar to Bojack's, then it's easier to relate to it. Though generally, I think the episode did a great job at portraying these conflicted emotions of regret, anger and grief, as well as the realisation that you'll never get something that you desperately wanted from a person, because they're no longer among you.

See, I do have a similar relationship with my mother, but I still couldn't get into it. To me, it felt like a rehash of everything we already knew about the Bojack/Beatrice relationship, so it felt like the season was put on pause with that particular episode.  I didn't like the undersea episode from season three, either, so I think I'm just the odd one out.

[Neko]

6 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

But that's kind of the point of grief, isn't it? When somebody you know dies, your life kind of comes to a halt and all your left with is your memories and the things unsaid/undone, which leads you to ponder about the past. While this episode may not have brought new knowledge or advanced the storyline, it did really convey these feelings of loss, regret, pain and stillness really well and for an episode that's basically only a monologue with little background jokes, it's actually quite impressive how it is still captivating.

I can see your point, it just wasn't working, for me.  It's a well written episode, though, and I really liked the final gag.  That was pretty good.

If I had to pick a favorite episode from this season, it would probably be The Amelia Earhart Story.  I liked what it revealed about Princess Carolyn, what drives her, and why she wants to be a mother, so badly.  It was also just the right amount of dark, with PC's mom talking about losing numbers, and what-not.  Ouch.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

I used to love this show, but I'm four episodes into the new season and I'm really not into it anymore. The dialogue oftentimes seems forced and unnatural, especially during the many times when the show creators are on a soapbox about something (of course shows should discuss social issues if they want to, but I feel like this show is heavy-handed in the execution). The show is also very...faux-cutesy in the forced Tumblr-esque way that "woke" millennials often are...I hope you understand what I mean. Also I just feel like the show is getting repetitive at this point and the characters have not experienced much emotional growth. How long are we going to watch these privileged rich 1%-er people thinking they have real problems when they really don't and creating the same problems for themselves over and over again? The season parodies prestige TV but I think it also has a lot of the same problems as many prestige TV shows. Plus that plotline with Yolanda's family was just bizarre. Overall I feel like I'm watching a show created by Redditors or something.

I don't think the show changed but probably I changed and I'm not the target audience anymore.

Edited September 17, 2018 by BuyMoreAndSave

[Eva Marie]

What bugs me about Judah is that he clearly has Aspie traits, yet it's never called that, but made fun of for comedic purposes. Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt also did that. Why is ASD considered fair game to laugh at (and not named) in otherwise intelligent, insightful comedies? It gets passed off as your normal nerdy shy behaviour when it clearly ain't. We now have 1 in 68 kids diagnosed with it (+more undiagnosed girls), so I wish TV writers would keep up with the program.

Todd's asexual behaviour is never made fun of in the same way for instance. Its also given a label and explained that it's OK to be that way multiple times.

Beatrice's and her mother's life are excruciating to watch because all of the suffering is a product of insititutionalised misogyny. Beatrice's bad mothering is a scapegoat for it. This type of 'evil mothers' only exist because they're pushed into motherhood by patriarchy in the 1st place and are powerless and filled with resentment (which gets poured out onto the kid).

[Loandbehold]

In a season that was darker, at least ended much darker, than Season 4, I laughed a lot this season. Not sure what that says about me. Will Arnett gave a phenomenal performance in Free Churro. And, given that BoJack is so self-centered and his eulogy demonstrates this over and over, the final bit had me in stitches. I also liked The Show Stopper. It was trippy and awful and funny and awful. Trying to figure out whether we watching Philbert or real BoJack was confusing, but satisfying, if that makes any sense. 

Todd can be annoying, so an episode where he's front and center usually ranks near the bottom of the season and Planned Obsolescence fell into that category. But, I liked Diane's and Princess Caroline's episodes. Mr. Peanutbutter's episode not as much. He doesn't do much for me as a main character. I much prefer him in a supporting role. But, I was impressed w/ him as Philbert's "dead partner" and was shocked every time he cursed. 

And, we got a Character Actress Margo Martindale sighting! I thought we'd see more of her. I guess Season 6 can bring her back to Hollywoo. 

[Neko]

11 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

I was intrigued by them going into a direction with Mr. Peanutbutter where he is unlikeable and also messed up. I think so far he have only gotten to the "happy-go-lucky"-guy and comic relief in him so I thought that this season finally developed him beyond that.

I really liked the fact that MPB messed up, and even regressed a little, at the end.  I never found him particularly interesting, so hopefully, it will give him a much more interesting arc in season six.

[Drumpf1737]

Can we take a moment to talk about the awesomeness of Whattimeisitnow.com ?? They are trying to make people to forget the time is right there in the corner of their computer screen--brilliant. The writing and acting on this show are exemplary. While I haaaate Bojack and often strongly dislike Diane, I appreciate that it's all in the way they're written and Alison Brie's amazing performance. Diane's ringtone is the perfect touch. It's one of those subtle character details this show does so well.

Did Flip remind anyone else of the head writer on "The Comeback" with Lisa Kudrow? Yikes, that character was epically creepy. 

I love the way this season tackled #MeToo. Gina just accepting Flip's harassment because she has a mortgage in SoCal is the realest explanation of why women don't come forward I've seen thus far.

Flip's being a soft-spoken harasser made him so creepy--I wonder if he purposefully sounded like Woody Allen? *shudder* He reminded me of the "nice" guy at work who asked me if my "titties are real"  (I don't miss being 24 and shy).

I work with actors and I live in California so I meet the Diane and Bojack archetypes at least once per week. That delusional pretentiousness, turning minor inconveniences into major emotional meltdowns, deplorables who bemoan unions, voted Obama and are only slightly racist *sigh* (i.e. Diane's boss).

Yay Issa Rae and Wanda Sykes as the lesbian couple!

All in all great season...very dark but great.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Drumpf1737

[tennisgurl]

I thought this was another great season, although I liked last season better. Maybe I liked all the stuff about the Horseman family, maybe I thought it had more stand out episodes (The Old Sugerman Place was one of my favorites episodes of any show last year), but I just enjoyed last season more. Not that this season wasn't great too, I think I just liked last seasons vibe more. 

Still, I thought this season had a lot going for it. The parody of overly convoluted cop shows with tough anti heroes was hilariously spot on, and the episode with Issa Rae and Wanda Sykes as a couple who are telling stories about the main cast was pretty awesome. I do hope that next season, we get some more real progression from the main cast. I get that a big part of the show is how hard it is for people to change for the better (if its at all possible) and that people mess up and fall into old habits a lot, but as a viewer, its just exhausting to have Bojack get closer to some kind of breakthrough every season, only for it all to fall apart by the following season. Last season was probably Bojack at his best, and this season ends with him at his lowest. Same with most of the other characters. They inch towards some development, and fall apart. 

 Officer Meow-Meow Fuzzyface as a very obvious undercover cop might have been my favorite joke of the season. 

[BloggerAloud]

Interesting parallel this season. BoJack getting Gina to sing Kernel of Truth for the producers reminds me of Mr. Peanutbutter doing the library for Diane.

[Rinaldo]

Princess Carolyn and Diane, at least, are in distinctly different places from where they've been before, so the next part of their path has to be at least somewhat different.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

I posted a while ago about how I watched the first four episodes of Season 5 and hated it. I wasn't going to even finish the season but my husband wanted to watch it so, I ended up watching it too. Anyway the season picked up after episode 4 although I still didn't like it all that much. I feel like we're getting the same ending every season (right down to the "altered consciousness" thing that already happened twice in the penultimate episodes of previous seasons!). Bojack did some terrible shit and alienated someone else, Diane is even more depressed and dissatisfied after purposely fucking up her life even more for idealism, Mr. Peanutbutter is avoiding his problems, Princess Carolyn is pretending like she isn't about to prioritize her career over everything and everyone else even though we all know she will, and Todd bounces off aimlessly to the next zany scheme. Todd and Diane in particular have become pretty insufferable. I doubt I will watch the next season and after five seasons of going in circles the show had better do something else with the characters or just pack it up.

Edited October 20, 2018 by BuyMoreAndSave

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Bojack Horseman won a Critics' Choice Award!

Best Animated Series

[ElectricBoogaloo]

How Will Arnett got Margo Martindale to do Bojack Horseman:

Full interview here (mostly about Sneaky Pete):

[cleo]

Ive just started season 4. I'm spoiled for the season, but I'm not spoiled for season 5. I enjoyed the ep about Bojack's mother as a child, but not really the others. I've seen the first four eps. 

The Peanut butter/governor storyline- I'm just not into political satire right now, the actual state of politics overshadows it heh. But even without that there is nothing really new in the jokes that hasn't been done before elsewhere. Also I don't mind Mr. PB usually, but here he is really just starting to get annoying. Maybe bc there is nothing to counter him? Not sure. 

The Princess Caroline story is fine but just seems entirely cut off from the Bojack story. Not excited about where it's going though. 

Diane working for this blog- it seems so dumb given she she seems to hate it or not fit in or something. Like I just keep thinking why are you there? Don't enjoy any of these scenes. 

Todd being asexual- this is interesting, and so far's Todd's appearances are the only ones I kind of enjoyed. 

Bojack's daughter- the hunt for the mother was kind of funny. Not sure about this storyline yet, though again I'm spoiled on the end result I think. 

Out of the first four eps I enjoyed the first two ok, disliked the last 2. Did I mention I did not need to see a sex scene between PB and Diane? I did not. 

I'm sticking with it, bc I've learned to trust this show but I hope it doesn't become too much of a slog.

[Utpe]

BoJack Horseman To End With Season 6 On Netflix:

Quote

Another Netflix legacy series, which put the platform on the original programming map, is coming to an end.  The upcoming sixth season of off-beat adult animated comedy BoJack Horseman, starring Will Arnett, will be its last.  The news was revealed in the Season 6 trailer released today, which also announces that the final season will air in two parts:  Part 1, which launches on October 25, 2019 and Part 2, which will be released on January 31, 2020.

Fans of the show hoping for a proper ending should not worry as the sixth season of BoJack Horseman was reportedly conceived as a final season.

https://deadline.com/video/bojack-horseman-end-season-6-netflix-watch-final-season-trailer/

[Eeksquire]

I'm sad that the show is ending, although if this season is like the last, I might have been out anyway - the whole Philbert ... everything was Not For Me, but the trailer looks promising.

[AnimeMania]

Just wanted to let you know the 6th Season is out and I watched the first episode. It is a little confusing about where exactly they are in the time line since they flashback quite a bit, which might be why I was confused, because at first I didn't realize that most of what they are showing was flashbacks. I thought the Flintstones joke was pretty funny.

[Commando Cody]

I liked the season overall. The last episode was pretty heavy.   I'm a little wary about how they are going to end the series now.  

[Eeksquire]

I was SO HAPPY to see Judah come back! For me, the way that he and PC parted ways before was among the saddest moments of the show.

[angora]

I love Judah too, Eeksquire. I was so excited that PC called him in for the negotiations and then brought him back to Vim.

I thought the first half of the season was really well-done. I like how Sarah Lynn is almost this specter over BoJack's whole storyline - that scene leading to her taking her first drink from BoJack's "water bottle" in his dressing room at Horsin' Around was so sad. And even though, as usual, things got pretty bleak, I appreciated the running gag about him having to explain to people how they could sneak out by tying their bed sheets together.

Maude the Cinnabunny worker caught my attention in her first scene at the airport with BoJack, but the second she said, "No, I'm not dating anyone - focus, Mom," I knew she was going to turn out to be asexual and BoJack would tell her about All About that Ace. I might have squeed when Todd got matched with her.

Speaking of Todd, I enjoyed him bonding with Untitled Princess Carolyn Project/Ruthie this season, and I really liked the episode with his stepdad.

But oh man, how's it all going to end? I don't know how my heart's gonna take this.

[tennisgurl]

That was heavy, but it was still a really good start of the season, I am really not sure where this is going to end up. Bojack actually does seem to be making positive steps in his life (even giving Mr. Peanutbutter his long wanted crossover!) but now it sounds like all of his darkest moments are going to come out, which will possibly throw all that progress out the window, and make things even worse. 

So glad that PC called Judah to stand up for the assistants, and hired him back!

Edited November 3, 2019 by tennisgurl

[galaxychaser]

I binge watched all of it in a week or 2. 

Cant wait for part 2 in January.

Guess Bojack is going to prison/will lose all his $?

The show is depressing as fish.

[Commando Cody]

The only thing I was hoping for, at the end of last season, was for Pickles to be gone this season. I thought it would be good if he had already moved on to the next one.  

Sadly, this did not happen.  

I too was happy to see Judah back. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Critics' Choice Award nomination!

Best Animated Series!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Critics' Choice Award!

Best Animated Series

[Prower]

s06e12: Did not know that Sarah Lynn was alive the whole time and only died at the hospital. I mean 17 minutes. That really sounds like it would have been more than enough time to give her some Narcan and save her life.

That makes what Bojack did so much worse.

Also curious that there was only a civil suit. I'm not that versed in american law... I think not helping somebody isn't a crime (it is here in germany (§ 323c StGB)), but giving her the herion and thus causing her death probably is, isn't it?

[Eeksquire]

Quote

I think not helping somebody isn't a crime (it is here in germany (§ 323c StGB)), but giving her the herion and thus causing her death probably is, isn't it?

It's a state by state thing, but generally speaking, not helping someone isn't a crime. Giving her the heroin probably also wouldn't be criminal unless he forcibly injected her with it, thus the civil suit.

This show though. I haven't posted about the end because I tried to take my time with watching the last episodes, but I'm dying to hear what people thought of the end.  I will say this:

Spoiler

I love Judah, no one loves Judah more than me, but I really was not a super fan of him and Princess Carolyn getting married.  

 

[angora]

I just finished it - my conflicting feelings of wanting to savor a great show as much as possible but also being desperate to see what happens next usually equalizes to about an episode a day. Since it's out now, I won't use spoiler tags. Just know that I'll be talking about the whole season.

I loved it, even though so much of it got so hard and so real. It was really interesting to see how BoJack (with PC's help) tried to navigate all the controversy and how everyone reacted to it. From the "triumph" of the first interview to the disaster of the second... Even though I wouldn't label BoJack a predator and, by the time all this came out, he'd already done quite a bit of work on himself and had been trying to reverse the patterns that led to his hurting/damaging behavior, it still felt gross to see him and PC talking about how to "manage" the scandal and get out from under it (especially him deciding to be honest and then retreating into total denial when he got the call from the reporter.) But at the same time, it was fascinating to see him get seduced by the likes of Vince Waggoner and the frat boys who kept telling him he did nothing wrong and reinforcing the damaging behavior. Then that night at the Horsing Around producer's house? Oh man, manipulating his guilt over Sarah Lynn's death to get him to agree to cut the Horse out of the episodes, then revealing she bluffed him all those years ago so she could fire Herb, then pushing him to drink? What a piece of work.

I mostly liked how everything turned out in the last episode, and I liked how it was structured, with each section focusing on BoJack's relationship with one of the other characters (plus the Easter egg that Gina starred in Kelsey's superhero movie after all!), but I think the penultimate episode was the pinnacle of this season. Holy crap, that was amazing. Everything about Sarah Lynn is heartbreaking to me, and I loved getting more insight into Crackerjack, combining BoJack's dad with Secretariat, the whole "show," and BoJack's growing dread/realization over what was really happening.

This was very much BoJack's story, but I liked what we got of the other characters too. I loved Princess Carolyn's speech about working so hard and so long to succeed that you can't remember the dreams you were fighting to achieve in the first place. I thought Diane had a really good arc, trying to cope with treating her depression while struggling with her writing. It's nice that, on an animated show, a character can move halfway across the country but still be a major part of the show because it costs the same to animate no matter where she is. Todd and Maude were cute together, and being Princess Carolyn's nanny/running the daycare at Vim seemed like a good fit for Todd; I loved the jokes about him talking about the babies like they were his coworkers. (Side note: unless there's someone I've missed, the end of BoJack Horseman means there are no longer ANY confirmed asexual characters on TV - network, cable, or streaming. As an ace, that's almost as sad as the show ending.)

I've never seen anything like this show before, and I doubt I will anytime soon.

[Blakeston]

On 1/31/2020 at 10:49 PM, Prower said:

Also curious that there was only a civil suit. I'm not that versed in american law... I think not helping somebody isn't a crime (it is here in germany (§ 323c StGB)), but giving her the herion and thus causing her death probably is, isn't it?

 

On 2/5/2020 at 9:08 AM, Eeksquire said:

It's a state by state thing, but generally speaking, not helping someone isn't a crime. Giving her the heroin probably also wouldn't be criminal unless he forcibly injected her with it, thus the civil suit.

This could be a good law school exam question.

Ordinarily, if your friend is dying of a heroin overdose in the state of California, you can legally choose to do nothing to save them. However, if you actually gave the friend the heroin, that would fall into an exception to the "no duty to help" standard. If you helped create the danger that your friend was in by giving them the drug, that would create a duty to help.

But I would argue that Bojack didn't actually give Sarah Lynn the heroin. She found it in his glove compartment, and then she convinced him that they should use it.

(That said, from the way the Bitsy interview was written, it seemed like the writers wanted the audience to believe that Bojack did, in fact, give it to her. I'm not sure if they misremembered how it was written, or if they're just taking a liberal definition of what it means to "give" someone a drug.)

As for Bojack passing out in the house and scaring the new owners, could that have been a reference to Robert Downey Jr.'s similar antics, back when his addiction problems were out of control?

[ElderPrice]

On 2/8/2020 at 1:05 AM, angora said:

the end of BoJack Horseman means there are no longer ANY confirmed asexual characters on TV - network, cable, or streaming. As an ace, that's almost as sad as the show ending.)

I've never seen anything like this show before, and I doubt I will anytime soon.

I’m ace too, and my heart is broken over this. We need visibility. Maybe Todd can get his own spinoff. 

[tennisgurl]

On 2/11/2020 at 2:00 PM, ElderPrice said:

I’m ace too, and my heart is broken over this. We need visibility. Maybe Todd can get his own spinoff. 

Hooray! Todd spin-off! 

What a ride this show has been, I admit I put off watching just because I wasnt ready for it to end! I originally had mixed feeling about the ending, especially Bojack spiraling (again) vowing to be better (again) and the implication that he will fall on old habits (again) and I thought it might have been stronger to have Bojack finally die, but when I thought about it more, it grew on me. I am glad that Bojack lived, him dying would have been too easy in a lot of ways. I much prefer thinking that he could finally make some real changes in his life, and that they just might stick. The last scene between Bojack and Diane was really bittersweet, implying that they would never really see each other again, but that they are both glad that they knew each other. Its really sad that this is the apparent end of their friendship, but at least they seemed to find...dare I say it...closure? 

On the side of no closure, I am sad that Bojack and Hollyhocks relationship is apparently dead in the water, that was a relationship that I really liked, and ending with her just cutting him out of her life is just so depressing, it seems like such a dead end after all that narrative build up. 

Of course, thats something the show has always loved to do, that sometimes people dont forgive you ever for something you did, that people just stop being in your life, that people cant break their bad patterns sometimes, and while I can enjoy the brutal reality/deconstruction nature of it, it can also get to the point where...how do I put this...its realistic, but it makes for a lesser story at times. Yeah some things are silly genre conventions, but sometimes those conventions exist for a reason, and when the show just kind of dumps characters and plots and keeps making characters do the same beats over and over again because its "realistic" it sometimes makes me wish they could focus on less realism, and more on how to tell the story in a way that makes narrative sense. 

Of course of course (a horse!) that also does all tie into Bojacks tendencies to try and look at his life through the lens of a TV show or movie, and how often that ends up being unhealthy, or like with his imaginary PC wedding, it becomes all about him, with everyone else as supporting characters and not people with their own lives. 

"I cant tell if thats smart or stupid." Pretty much sums Todd up in a nutshell. I am more or less happy with how everyone ended up, in a healthier and happier place than in the first season, but still struggling with their stuff and chugging along. PC is married to Judah and raising her daughter while also working, Diane got married and is dealing with her depression (and is a YA author! No same Diane!) is a decently healthy way, Mr. Peanutbutter is focusing on himself being single as well as a Birthday Dad, Todd has an actual job he is good at with his baby co-workers and is talking to his parents again, and Bojack...is trying, and I guess thats something at least. 

I think my favorite of the new run was the second to last episode, holy crap what a scary, heartbreaking, mindfuck of an episode. I had to watch it twice and read online to get all of the references (Just keep dancing was the advice Bojack gave a young Sara Lynn on the set of Horsin Around, the song Crackerjack and Beatrice perform to is the song they sang in The Old Sugerman Place before Crackerjack died in the war) to the shows past and everything going on in the background and what was actually happening. The View From Halfway Down was just...brrrrrrr, especially followed by Bojack freaking out as he realizes whats actually happening. Definitely one of the shows best.

Edited March 5, 2020 by tennisgurl

[cleo]

I'm watching season 6. I really disagree with the characterization of Bojack as a predator. I don't know if the show is really trying to state that or not. But it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I mean he's a fuckup and an asshole, whatever. But he's not some predator.

Or to put it another way- if he uses and abuses women, it ain't bc they're women. He uses and abuses everyone at times.

[scrb]

OK, the publicist character in season 3 is something.

She comes across at first as this supremely self-possessed individual, kind of bucks up Bojack for the movie tour.  Then she's busted working for a rival actor up for the same awards as Bojack and then she quits and convinces Bojack that she will work only for him.

And she convinces him by pulling a stunt out of a porn, gets his attention.

Then they're having sex in a car and then when she's done, gets off the top of him and there's this sound effect.

Turns out she has this sad lonely life that belies her supremely confident front that she puts up in her professional capacity.

Seems too particular which makes you think the character is a satire of someone in real life.  Certainly not the stereotype you get of Hollywood publicists as these ultimate yes women.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Writers Guild of America award!

Animated: Nick Adams ("Xerox of a Xerox", Bojack Horseman)

[MagnusHex]

Gave this show another chance after dropping it after the pilot, and I'm glad I did. My impression of the show improved after Prickly-Muffin, but goddamn, that next episode...

1x4: Zoës and Zeldas

Like, what the fuck, BoJack? That's messed up, the ending. I love how the ending kinda retroactively subverts your typical comedy writing when you look back at how BoJack's interaction with Virgil Van Cleef, how a typical callous comedy line that undermined Todd's chances of making the rock opera a success, something Homer Simpson would unintentionally do, gets subverted into an intentionally malicious manipulation. Holy crap. That's clever and screwed up.

I read one comment that the episode was the one that made them realized that this was a different kind of comedy, and I agree. I'm guessing it's only gonna get much, much darker from here, and I can't wait to find out more.

7/10

[Domestic Assassin]

4 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

I read one comment that the episode was the one that made them realized that this was a different kind of comedy, and I agree. I'm guessing it's only gonna get much, much darker from here, and I can't wait to find out more.

 

I remember a tweet from the creator of BoJack Horseman that the original pitch for the show was "You start out thinking it's Family Guy, but it's really Mad Men."

[cleo]

It gets darker. It definitely shocked me more than once.

It also is for sure one of those shows where people make assumptions about what it is that are incorrect.

I had read some reviews that intrigued me so I gave it a long leash but I was still surprised repeatedly.

I'm going to do a rewatch at some point.

[MagnusHex]

2x7: Hank After Dark

Let's face it - first thought watching this now is Harvey Weinstein and #MeToo. Didn't know it was pointing to both Letterman and Cosby. I don't watch celebrity news, but I'm sure the climate surrounding scandals like this was probably similar to what was portrayed in this episode, but goddamn, quite a lot of elements surrounding Hank's scandals here bore eerie similarity to Harvey Weinstein, including the media outrage and the celebrities' reactions to the accusation (by downplaying it as "I never knew"). My guess is that it was actually just pointing to the general toxic culture of celebrity men getting away with sexual harassment/rape at the time, but still, this episode has certainly aged like fine wine.

That said, I felt like a lot of reviews I've read missed an important point - Todd's "rambling" about a genocide in another country. I love how the episode also kinda threw some shade on how we can be so myopic sometimes, so focused on our own affairs that we can sometimes be blindsided to other equally (or sometimes more) important affairs happening at the time, with how Diane and BoJack just shouting "Nobody cares" to matters of genocide in some backwoods country (or they could just be ranting about how no one really cares what silly shenanigans Todd gets into, but I doubt it).

There's layers to this episode, even if it did kinda rush BoJack and Mr. Peanutbutter's important character moments with Diane (one finally expressed his frustration with the book while the other finally confronted his wife on whether she truly care about their marriage). The topic of Hank and the whole satire of perverted celebrity men was a bigger focus than the character development of BoJack and Peanut Butter, but I can't complain because it did such a great job with said satire. Wonder how this episode would have been like if it had been released two years later.

4.5/5

Edited March 28 by MagnusHex

[MagnusHex]

2x11: Escape from LA

Jesus fucking Christ. WTF BoJack.

Curses aside, I was nearly as shocked as everyone else going into this (love seeing all the jaw-dropped shocked reactions of The Normies watching this) because this kind of dark depressing shit was what I signed up for when I first picked this show up. It's kinda a fucked up thing to say, but I relate to characters like this, people who are broken inside but not knowing how (or unwilling) to fix it. I was watching Dexter and House M.D. back then and needed a replacement show, so BoJack fitted.

But damn, this is probably the darkest episode - so far (can't wait to see upcoming episodes others have raved about, like "That's Too Much, Man!"... oof, poor Sarah Lynn). BoJack's horrible actions aside, you gotta love how this is the anti-sitcom episode of the show. BoJack the show has always subverted comedy tropes, but this episode went out of its way to subvert (or rather, deconstruct) all the usual shenanigans sitcom characters get into:

• Quirky sitcom opening? Literally warned you things are gonna get uncomfortable. "Nothing's gonna be alright, be alright! Oh no!"
• Older adult going to a highschool prom? Oops, it's creepy because BoJack brought Charlotte's daughter there and also no one thought the old guy was cool.
• Heartwarming scene of BoJack sending balloons to the sky with Penny? Bad for the environment and also BoJack only did it for his own selfish purpose of reliving his time with Charlotte.
• Getting drunk? Oops, almost died of alcohol poisoning.
• Quirky hospital setting (the kind that randomly pops up in a sitcom)? Not gonna happen because BoJack is an irresponsible adult.
• Responsible adult rejecting a kiss from a minor? Oops, they almost have sex because he left his door open.
• Kissing your old flame who's already married? She rejects you like a good married spouse would in real life, asking you to GTFO.

And a lot of scenes here pretty much boil down to "reality ensues" for sitcom situations, which I love as a fan of deconstruction in fiction. As a fan of the show, I just love how it doesn't disappoint when it comes to not holding punches in tearing down your usual comedy show routines and procedures, being this uniquely depressing show that can be as dark and somber when needed without disrupting the mood or tone with a wisecrack (like a certain cinematic universe that everyone's been imitating).

And what about BoJack the protagonist? How far deeper could he sink down to from here? Because I think we've pretty much hit bedrock in the bottom of the barrel of morals and ethics. Any deeper and he would've pulled a Weinstein or Epstein. Yikes. Looking forward to seeing just how far the show could push us before we would truly hate the character.

5/5

Edited April 10 by MagnusHex

[MagnusHex]

2z12: Out to Sea

"Everyday it gets a little easier. But you gotta do it every day; that's the hard part. But it does get easier."

I picked up this show because I wanted to keep fueling my own addiction for watching shows about broken people as I relate to them, but that line above, it just hits so close to home for me as well. Realest shit ever indeed.

Also, this episode predicted AI actors! (although people have said this technology has existed for a long time)

BoJack rescuing Todd hit right in the feels, especially his speech about the first time they met. It really showed that BoJack is trying to be better. Even if he fails about 90% of the time, it's the effort that makes it engaging TV.

4/5

Just saw the planetarian scene in the season 3 trailer, and I read the comments about the trailer spoiling and yet also subverting the planetarian scene and its tone, so I'm going to make a prediction based on what little I know about season 3:

Spoiler

Sarah Lynn's drug-overdosed corpse is literally lying on BoJack's lap as he said that line in the trailer, "It doesn't matter what we did in the past or how we'll be remembered; the only thing that matters is this one spectacular moment we are sharing together."

If I'm not wrong, I don't see anyone sitting with BoJack at all at the planetarian, and from what I heard about Sarah Lynn and the "That's Too Much, Man!" episode... yeah, seems possible the above scenario will play out, especially when others have compared that episode to "Escape from L.A." Really wish I am wrong because I really feel for Sarah Lynn, but I'm pretty sure I got spoiled about her ultimate fate.

Edited Sunday at 07:44 AM by MagnusHex