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BoJack Horseman

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There's an interview on Vulture with the creator of the show - apparently yes, their intent was that Bojack really was going to go all the way with Penny: http://www.vulture.com/2015/07/bojack-horseman-season-two-raphael-bob-waksberg.html

 

 

Well sure I thought he was going to, I thought the question was did he before her mom walked in on them.  I don't think anything happened before they were caught. 

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Diane's NPR ringtones always slay me. "Your telephone is ringing. I'm Ira Glass. Thank you for being a sustaining member of public radio. Everyone has a story, and your phone's story is... that it's ringing."

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I think Charlotte walked in before they actually slept together.

I never questioned that Bojack intended to sleep with the daughter. His reaction to getting caught was not the reaction of someone who was the victim of a misunderstanding.

I think it was perfectly in character for him to do it, too. His dreams had just been shattered - he thought he'd put together a happy life with the woman of his dreams. And then she rejects him, telling him that he makes her too sad.

For someone like Bojack, that's about as miserable as it gets. And so he took a pitiful grasp at whatever pleasure he could feel at that moment, with someone who reminded him of her.

Plus, the last time we saw Bojack try to take a fatherly role with a younger woman, it was Sarah Lynn, and he ended up sleeping with her.

It was painful to see Bojack sink so low with a 17-year-old, but it was very much in character for him. I would have been disappointed in the show's creator if he'd claimed that Charlotte just walked in at the wrong time, and drew the wrong conclusion.

So what do you think his deer friend was going back to his cabin for? To tell him about the glow stick balloons, or to kiss him?

I think she saw the balloons, and realized that Bojack had attempted to relive one of his fondest memories of her with her lookalike daughter. That instantly made her suspicious. Edited by Blakeston
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Alison Brie

 

This alone has converted me to an Alison Brie fan. I never get tired of Vincent Adultman! I especially love that he has a broom for one of his hands.

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I really liked Princess Carolyn and the rabbit until it turned out he wasn't really divorcing his wife and everything after that. I thought the build up to their relationship was perfect.

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I made the mistake of marathoning BoJack Horseman during a long Sunday coming down. Season 2 was a fucking gut-shot. The show is great, but damn it's bleak.

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Season 3 of BoJack Horseman finally dropped yesterday on Netflix.   I wanted to discuss it.  There's no thread, so I made one.  Edit it if you want, as that's the only non spoiler one I could think of.   

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It was really intriguing that Sarah Lynn was there when he saw Penny.   Rare moment of seriousness from SL when she saw Penny's reaction to Bojack and firmly told him they needed to leave.  Even more interesting on rewatch when I noticed that she insisted a few times that Bojack shouldn't see Penny.  

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They did so well with episode 11. On this show I'm going to start being wary of episodes with laugh out loud lines in future, it's clearly an attempt to disguise the upcoming gut punch. I'm not sure I care what happens to BoJack from this point out, as a character, because it felt like this latest bout of selfishness and destructiveness was done with his eyes completely open.

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which I initially saw coming in the episode. wondering if they would really be going there, then they had the whole fake-out, only to go there after all at the end of the episode, which I think paid off really well, though I wish the finale would have focused a little bit more on it.

I wasn't a fan of the fake out. Either do it or don't but for me it just diluted the impact later on.

I liked Todd's storyline this season. His speech to BoJack was great. I hope they don't revert to the status quo too easily with that relationship, it felt like a coming of age for Todd. As Todd was told, he's a good person and deserves better than to be repeatedly treated like crap.

I fear for the future relationship health of both Princess Carolyn and Diane. I feel like Diane in particular loves Mr Peanutbutter but whatever they have isn't quite enough.

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Kudos to the writers for not going through with Bojack's oscar nomination too, usually you would think the show would build up to it, since so much of the season was focused on the Oscar campaign, but "real life" is not Parks and Recreation and even if you really desperately want something, sometimes it doesn't happen. 

I loved this aspect of the season. It felt anti-climactic but I liked that it was a surprise. Also the subsequent plot derailment is the point, BoJack had his hopes pinned on this recognition and he didn't even get close.

Edited by Beatriceblake
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I did find it hilarious that Mr Peanutbutter's house theme was used while chasing the phone and then they decided to make up Oscar nominees.  That whole scene was so funny.  From putting Daniel Day Lewis because he's always there to Avatar because Todd saw it last week and it was good to "black people" scratched out under lead actor, it felt about how the Oscar nominees are picked tbh.  Princess Caroline being a manager seems better for her than being an agent.  She's kind of been an excellent manager anyway.  I felt like this season had a stronger gut punch ending than the previous ones.  The monologue about being poison was so breathtaking and real.  It's amazing that the best written show is an animated show about a talking horse who's a drug addict.  

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It was also interesting to see the usually so upbeat Mr. Peanutbutter deal with real issues this season, though it's kind of disappointing that J.D. Salinger Presents Hollywoo Stars and Celebrities: What do they know? Do they know things? Let's find out! has already been cancelled. 

This will sound strange, since we're talking about an animated show where anthropomorphic animals and humans co-exist, but I found it unrealistic that HSACWDTK?DTKT?LFO! had to go off the air simply because JD Salinger no longer wanted to do it. What kind of a shitty deal did Wanda put together for the network?

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Another strong season all around.  Did not go where I expected.  After the first episode my guess was the reporter was going to bury the story about BoJack not really being "in" the movie until after he won, then she would public the bombshell like a week later, so BoJack could experience the thrill of winning and one great night at least before it being taken away.  It turn out along those lines but in a much different way. 

To see BoJack lose and turn away everyone close to him was sad and so realistic. 

That Sextina song was hilarious, even if it was insensitive.  ANd the lady in the abortion clinic actually was convincing and explained things well about why she liked the song. 

As a dog owner I love all the ways they work in dog habits to Mr Peanbutbutter.  Him explaining why he hates tennis because no one just grabs the ball is hilarious. 

Also loved the movie titles. 

The episode where he goes undersea with very few words spoken was great. 

Princess Caroline's perfect "date" being a mouse is brilliant.  It as first seems odd, but its great symbolism for a cat.  Its was cats are always chasing, but she had ignored for so long due to her career. 

I thought the best line of the whole season was BoJack convincing the girl to get married at the rehearsal dinner, he comments about how as a celebrity you end up with a whole bunch of people who "love" you, but no one who really likes you.  Then in the penultimate episode with Sarah Lynn, who truly does like him, which is so well explained, their bender ends up being her demise.  And he pushes away PC as well, who truly does care for him. 

The comedy/drama mix for a cartoon is just about perfect.  And the endings to the seasons always leave us wondering where it goes next. 

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"Don't fetishize your sadness". As a Tumblr user, I would like to shake the hand of the person who wrote that.

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1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

I assume J.D. Salinger had complete creative control guaranteed to get him to do something for television.

 

That does seem to be the case. I guess it is only in the Hollywoo of the Bojack universe where J.D. Salinger could ever get such a deal for a TV show, or where the network exec who OK'd such a bonehead deal could move up.

On second thought, it really isn't surprising that Wanda could move up in showbiz after making such a horrible deal. Failing upwards is standard operating procedure for studio and network execs in Hollywood and Hollywoo. 

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Absolutely gutted yet again, yet hopeful. This series is phenomenal. You all spoke of it far more eloquently than I ever could. I just love it so. 

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I'm watching S1, and at Diane and Mr PB's rehearsal dinner (that was not a rehearsal nor a dinner) and there was a good sight gag in an overhead banner (paraphrasing): Congratulations Diane and Mr Peanut Butter // Peanut Butter is one word

It caught my eye but I didn't quite get it. Who were they telling that Peanutbutter is one word? (While still failing to spell it as one word?) And why? Last night as I was falling asleep I got it. That's what they dictated to the sign people.

I like the occasional animal elements, like the tennis balls and mail truck. So far it's a nice balance, just enough to remind you that yes, he's part dog. Not enough to get annoying.

Why animals? My guess is that it adds the right amount of absurdity to take the edge off of a very depressing show. I couldn't watch a human Bojack, I don't think. Definitely not a live-action one.  

Edited by snarktini
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48 minutes ago, snarktini said:

That's what they dictated to the sign people.

Thank you, snarktini! I thought that bit was vaguely amusing, but didn't really understand where the specific joke was until you just explained it.

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12 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Thank you, snarktini! I thought that bit was vaguely amusing, but didn't really understand where the specific joke was until you just explained it.

Haha, I'm up to S2E4, and they did it again, the banner reads: Happy Birthday Diane and Use a Pretty Font. I'll be on the lookout for more of these. :)

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OMG, I can't believe I missed that. The show's general trajectory is so bleak, I'm glad they stuff it with gags around the edges like that.

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On 8/12/2016 at 2:21 AM, snarktini said:

Haha, I'm up to S2E4, and they did it again, the banner reads: Happy Birthday Diane and Use a Pretty Font. I'll be on the lookout for more of these. :)

There's also the commemorative birthday t-shirt: I had a ball at Diane's 35th birthday and underline ball I don't know why this is so hard

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I cried at the end.  It was just so sad.  And scary.  And wistful.  Damn, this show.

I hated the episode with no talking.  That's the only one I didn't like, although the end cracked me up. 

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Well, that was largely depressing.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but it definitely seemed to be more of the "sad" side of the coin to me.  If I hadn't watched the previous three seasons, I probably would have found the wackier elements to be more jarring from an overall more serious show.

That said, with my understanding of the show as a whole, I did love the clown dentists.

I also really liked how they played with story form in how the episodes were presented. The biggest gut punch for me was the end of episode nine, "Ruthie," when it's revealed that her great-granddaughter talking about her was in PC's imagination. It really wasn't the biggest thing of the season, but I guess throughout the episode I was taking comfort in it the same way PC was, thinking, "Well, if her great-granddaughter is telling this story, things must work out." And then to have that taken away was just...really well done.

Some of the asexual stuff seemed clunky to me, but on the whole I was just thrilled that there was so much explicit asexual representation.

I also enjoyed hearing Captain Raymond Holt in some episodes.

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44 minutes ago, Ikki said:

 

I also really liked how they played with story form in how the episodes were presented. The biggest gut punch for me was the end of episode nine, "Ruthie," when it's revealed that her great-granddaughter talking about her was in PC's imagination. It really wasn't the biggest thing of the season, but I guess throughout the episode I was taking comfort in it the same way PC was, thinking, "Well, if her great-granddaughter is telling this story, things must work out." And then to have that taken away was just...really well done.

I just finished this episode and I agree.  Setting the story up with Ruthie at the beginning dulled the impact of PC's miscarriage for most of the episode, because just as PC said, if she existed then everything must have turned out fine in the end.  But when PC revealed the lie, I immediately teared up.  I think it felt more devastating than it would have if the episode had played without Ruthie framing the episode.  

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Ok, that final twist got me, even if I should've seen it coming. It's weird watching a season of Bojack where he's not the fuckup. 

So Diane and Mr. Peanut butters is over, I guess this will start moving her towards  Bojack next season.

That episode with Princess Caroline where we're forced to watch her nuke her life was just wow. I was glad that Bojack willingly helped her at the end. 

I have no idea how to feel about Beatrice. She was quite the sympathetic character, but at the same time, oh my god did they make it hard to identify with her. Her taking that bay at the end of 10 was just brutal.

I wanted to like that governor story more than I did, but it felt shoehorned in and it went nowhere fast.

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Well, that was a lot to binge over a weekend, but I did it. It remains strange that an animated series set in a preposterous alternate reality can be just about the saddest thing going.

I very much like the way they play with narrative, with the narration from the future and the jumping back and forth over a week, getting more and more nuance; and (for me) particular the one retracing Beatrice's life. She had seemed loathsome enough at the end of the previous episode that one almost endorsed BoJack's harsh treatment of her, and then after seeing her own upbringing... well, she was still a rotten person who did rotten things, but we'd come to see how each of us gets shaped by a lifetime of experiences, and the best we can hope for is to acknowledge that and try to do better ourselves. 

After all of which, it's odd to feel that in the end this is the most optimistic of the seasons. After Season 3, and in the course of this one, BoJack is still a mess, but he's making an effort at times to "do better." Many steps back along the way, but he was thinking about others besides himself at times, he eventually really made an effort for Hollyhock, and there were specks of hope for him there at the end. 

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I haven't watched most of the season yet, so I am trying not to look at the above posts, but I just wanted to say that I applaud this show for waiting until season Four to play Horse with No Name. That was great restraint they showed, and they used it at just the right time!

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I found this season a bit more mixed than the previous two. I loved the stuff with BoJack, Hollyhock and Beatrice and the flashes we got of Beatrice's awful life.  The relationship stuff worked less well though. Would Ralph really go from wanting to have a child with Princess Carolyn to breaking up with her when she's clearly drunk and extremely upset? Also the Belle room being the thing that pushed Diane over the edge with Mr Peanutbutter felt contrived.

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- The clown dentists were a little bit too much I thought, especially once they got all zombified at the end of the season.

- Same for the underground episode. That most of the gala guests turned into cannibals to eat Zach Braff, it is kind of a fun joke, but it is more something that I would expect on Family Guy or Rick and Morty and not on Bojack.

Agreed on both counts.

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2 hours ago, Beatriceblake said:

Would Ralph really go from wanting to have a child with Princess Carolyn to breaking up with her when she's clearly drunk and extremely upset? Also the Belle room being the thing that pushed Diane over the edge with Mr Peanutbutter felt contrived.

I'm not assuming that either of these breakups is necessarily permanent. They could be of course, and maybe they'll turn out that way. But people often say "that's it for good" and it's only a passing mood. And the show is certainly awake to how complicated people's emotions are, and how non-definitive their declarations are. We'll see.

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I generally liked the season. Has there ever been a show this good that is so hard to describe to people?

I almost need to watch it again to pick up on everything. I did find the season a little light on Bojack himself. 

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I don't know why but out of all the characters this season, Diane annoyed me the most. There was just something that irked me about her that was different than how I viewed everybody else.

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So, whether episode 9 was the end of Ralph's and Princess Carolyn's relationship is still pretty much open-ended.

I find that I'm much more disappointed that her relationship with Judah might be over than her relationship with Ralph, who has always seemed like too much of a goody-two-shoes for Princess Carolyn.

I really hope that there will be another season.  This season set everyone up to (again) make some major changes in their lives moving forward - I think Dianne and Todd could both step forward for more screen time next season a la Mr. Peanutbutter and Princess Carolyn this season.

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This is the most depressing cartoon ever made. 

 

I enjoy it.  Just most of the prior seasons were heavier in the comedy.  THis one was pretty light on it the whole way through. 

Not that I did not enjoy the creative storytelling and the family history of Bojack, but still pretty much a downer. 

I think its good he has a sister though. I was afraid he was going to lose her the same way he lost Sarah Lynn at the end of last season. 

The Todd storyline with the clowns and dentists did feel over the top and didn't really work for me.

I did enjoy the crazy way the governor storyline was all over the place, couldn't tell where it was going.  And then I also liked it made much more sense at the end with Mr Peanut Butter.  He wasn't just being crazy or oblivious to anything with all his wacky schemes the whole time.  He was using them to distract from a marriage he knew was not working and putting off the inevitable break up that would like occur once things got back to "normal" for him and Dianne

As for Dianne though, I could see it coming he was going to make that library room for her, and really, what a bitch for acting like that towards him.  He tries to make a nice gesture, a wonderful one, and her response is basically "How dare you make my dream come true!!!"  Jesus.  I generally like her and relate to her, but that was pretty ugly how she got mad at him over it. 

While BoJack's mom is still pretty unlikeable, you can at least understand now why she acts like she does.  Dead brother, overbearing father, mom given a frontal lobotomy.  Jesus, how awful. 

I was hoping Judah (did they plan that name all along?) would get more of a chance to explain himself before he was fired. 

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God.  This season wrecked me emotionally.  I do wonder if Beatrice was unattached to BoJack as a baby because he looked a bit like CrackerJack,  her dead brother.  Or was it because her mother made her promise she'd never love anyone the way she loved CrackerJack?   I also think it's sad how she was in her mind talking to Henrietta and the baby or girl was indeed Holly.  I did not expect that at all.  I went from feeling for her to oh wow BoJack  was right.  It is interesting how Butterscotch and BoJack  (adult) seem to act so similar.   I want an episode from his pov in the future tbh.  

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This season might not have been quite as excellent as season 3, but it was still a great season, especially everything with Bojacks family and how their family traumas have impacted them throughput the generations. It made me understand Beatrice more, while not excusing her terrible treatment of Bojack. She was still an awful mother, but I feel a LOT more sympathy for her now. What an awful life she had. Dead brother, mom having a break down and getting a lobotomy (!), overbearing paternalistic father, knocked up and in a loveless marriage, and finally ending up alone in an old folks home with dementia. Again, how she ended up is on her as well, but its heartbreaking thinking of her cute little girl self ending up the way she does. At least, it looks like Bojack might actually be trying to break the cycle, even if its one step forward, two steps back. This is really the first season where Bojack actually seems to be making good life choices and on his way up instead of down. I get that the show is about how depression is a long, hard road where backsliding is common, it was getting a little old to see Bojack make some progress, than screw it up in the last few episodes. 

Sad to see that Mr. Peanutbutter and Diane's marriage is basically over, even if it was kind of inevitable, considering how different they are. I hoped that his optimism (mixed with an inability to deal with problems) and her introspection (mixed with constant depression)could balance each other out, but it looks like it wont work. It wont surprise me much if by next season they're separated, but Diane is still miserable because she is never really happy, no matter how much she tries. 

My favorite episode was probably the flashback to Beatrice's childhood which was extremely well written and heartbreaking, with some nice comedic moments as well,, and my leave favorite was probably the gun control episode. The idea of it was pretty good, and the constant refrains of "thoughts and prayers" was darkly funny and on point, it didn't really land the way it was trying to. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

my [least] favorite was probably the gun control episode. The idea of it was pretty good, and the constant refrains of "thoughts and prayers" was darkly funny and on point, it didn't really land the way it was trying to. 

That was my least favorite too (as it was for Alan Sepinwall in his season roundup), but I do think it added up as they intended, and the by-rote media reaction was well captured. I just found that this particular topic is too real and pervasive to be funny now, no matter how well dealt with. Maybe when any such real-life incidents are half a century in the past....

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On 9/12/2017 at 6:21 PM, Eeksquire said:

I find that I'm much more disappointed that her relationship with Judah might be over than her relationship with Ralph, who has always seemed like too much of a goody-two-shoes for Princess Carolyn.

I really hope that there will be another season.  This season set everyone up to (again) make some major changes in their lives moving forward - I think Dianne and Todd could both step forward for more screen time next season a la Mr. Peanutbutter and Princess Carolyn this season.

I have a friend who works on the show and he talks like there is definitely going to be a 5th season. The only thing I've heard is that next season will explore Todd's asexuality a lot more. I was a little confused about the math of all of this - wasn't Hollyhock 17 years old? Isn't Bojack in his 50's? When was she conceived? I was under the impression this all happened when Bojack was still young? Or did I make that up? It definitely occurred to me that Henrietta would be Hollyhock's mother, but then I dismissed it because the timeline seemed off.

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It was renewed for season 5.  I'm not sure where you got the idea that Hollyhock would have been conceived by Butterscotch when Bojack was still young.  Bea brought the horse painting to Bojack 3 years after the cancellation of Horsin' Around (per their conversation in the kitchen), cut to a scene with Bea reading a book "Several Months Later" when Butterscotch confessed that Henrietta was pregnant.  I did question the timeline though of Bea being maybe 7 or 8 in the 1944 scenes and then becoming a debutant in 1963.  Debutants aren't in their mid- to late- twenties.

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