S01.E01: Meeting Cait

[Cosmocrush]

And of course Kanye has to make it about them - how amazing that the stepfather of a "supermodel" would come out like this!! Kim is Kanye's mirror, so that's how he sees it - rather than how amazing it is for a male Olympian. (Unless they edited that part out.)

Oh I never realized he was he talking about Kim as a supermodel?  I thought he must be talking about one of the teenagers who have big modeling careers now but they aren't 'stepdaughters so yeah, he was, lol.    I never thought of Kim K. as a supermodel.  But then I've never thought of Kanye as a genius either so what do I know. 

Edited July 27, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[nexxie]

Maybe he meant Kendall - it would make more sense.

[Human]

 

Here's my pronoun question: If I am referring to what happens NOW, she is Caitlin. But, when referencing something that happened years ago (such as the conflict at Khloe's wedding), don't we use "he" and "Bruce?"  That was who she was then, right?

 

It's most appropriate to refer to Caitlin as who she is in the present even when speaking of her past. She has technically always been she and Caitlyn even when she was known by the world as he and Bruce.  

 

That said, it will take a while for everyone to adjust, especially as we are only just getting to know Caitlyn.  I'm glad they included the parts where Esther was struggling with pronouns and the name because it was very honest as to how difficult the transition can be for others.  We can just do our best to use the correct pronouns and name and try not to beat ourselves up too much if we make a mistake.

[Artsda]

 

And of course Kanye has to make it about them - how amazing that the stepfather of a "supermodel"

He said father,  he was referring to Kendall who is a legit supermodel.

[iwasish]

Oh I never realized he was he talking about Kim as a supermodel?  I thought he must be talking about one of the teenagers who have big modeling careers now but they aren't 'stepdaughters so yeah, he was, lol.    I never thought of Kim K. as a supermodel.  But then I've never thought of Kanye as a genius either so what do I know.

That's okay, he thinks it of himself and that's enough for him.

I do think he was referencing Kendall as the supermodel. I doubt even his delusional brain could conceive of Kim as a supermodel.

[ChicksDigScars]

He said father,  he was referring to Kendall who is a legit supermodel.

 

And IMO, the most naturally beautiful of the bunch (sorry Kimmy).  I was watching something where her resemblance to Ali McGraw was pointed out. Wow. Yeah. 

[Coffeecup]

IMHO, I don't think it's a "mistake" to use the name Bruce and the male pronouns when talking about something Bruce did before he transitioned to Caitlyn. For example, it makes no sense to say "Caitlyn Jenner won the gold medal when she competed on the U.S. men's decathlon team in the 1976 Olympics." A woman could not have been on the men's team. We can't rewrite history or change facts just to be politically correct. So I think what Esther said on the show last night was perfectly acceptable: "I was so proud of Bruce when he stood on that podium receiving that gold medal in Montreal."

We don't know what the Olympics authorities will decide to do in the future about which teams a transgender person can join. But in 1976 those were the rules: you had to be male to compete on the men's teams, and you had to be female to compete on the women's teams. Of course there were always suspicions that the Russian and Eastern European teams secretly sneaked hormone-treated men onto their women's teams, but that's a separate topic.

Back to the "I Am Cait" show topic: the first "I Am Cait" show wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I was glad they devoted a long segment to the late Kyler, and it was nice of Caitlyn to go to the balloon release memorial event.

The one thing that really made me mad was that they had Kylie (allegedly) meeting Caitlyn for the first time on the show. If true, that was an exploitative and mean thing for the producers and Caitlyn to do to Kylie. But knowing how the Kardashian clan invents storylines and has scripts for their shows, I think Kylie had already met Caitlyn in private and agreed to the storyline of meeting him for the first time on camera to add drama to the show.

I was distracted from listening to what Caitlyn was saying every time they did a closeup of her face. Wow, that was an aggressive facelift. Her eyebrows are pulled up on the edges, the "cat eye" look you see on many older women with facelifts. The nose job was pretty extreme too. The new nose looks too small and delicate for a person who is 6'2" tall and has big hands and feet. Sorry to sound trivial, but it did distract me.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Coffeecup

[bagatelle]

^^ THIS. The lisp starting happening a while ago, even on the Kardahsian show. I think it's the result of some of the facial surgery in the mouth, teeth , jaw, gums area. I think something happened during that restructuring. Also one eye, the left, think seems pulled tighter than the other, it's a little "off."

 

I wonder if it is also the jaw/chin surgery, not just the veneers and injected lips. The brow was also done, along with a few eye things and probably lots of Botox.  Everything can still be healing.  Caitlyn didn't waste any time getting in front of the cameras.  She may look more natural next year, if she had waited.

Edited July 27, 2015 by bagatelle

[nexxie]

He said father,  he was referring to Kendall who is a legit supermodel.

As I posted above, that makes more sense. Perhaps Kanye was speaking parent to parent.

[Human]

IMHO, I don't think it's a "mistake" to use the name Bruce and the male pronouns when talking about something Bruce did before he transitioned to Caitlyn. For example, it makes no sense to say "Caitlyn Jenner won the gold medal when she competed on the U.S. men's decathlon team in the 1976 Olympics." A woman could not have been on the men's team. We can't rewrite history or change facts just to be politically correct. So I think what Esther said on the show last night was perfectly acceptable: "I was so proud of Bruce when he stood on that podium receiving that gold medal in Montreal."

This isn't rewriting history.  She still is the same person who competed at the Olympics and won the gold medal. It's simply referring to her as who she is in the present rather than who she had to be in the past.

 

This is not a great example, but compare this with a woman who changes her name upon marriage.  We call her Mrs. MarriedName.  When speaking about things she did in high school, we are still referring to her as Mrs. MarriedName rather than Mrs. MaidenName.  Or, look at the gazillion celebrities who change their name for whatever reason.  We don't call Fergie "Stacy Ann" when discussing things she did before she professionally and legally changed her name.  It's not revising history in any way to refer to who she is in the present even if she was called something different in the past.  

Edited July 27, 2015 by Human

[Febgirl]

Here's what bothers me about Jennifer Boylan consulting on this show.  I've read, either on her twitter feed, or in NY Times Op-eds that she pens that in the media the trans experience can be reduced to the soft-focus shots of the woman in question slowly putting on panyhose, staring in the mirror while applying make up etc.. 

 So, I have to ask the question, was she brought in after the first episode or so was in the can?  I say this because all promos, and even the first few minutes of the show were just that. Caitlyn and her "glam squad" , etc.

[Cosmocrush]

Here's what bothers me about Jennifer Boylan consulting on this show.  I've read, either on her twitter feed, or in NY Times Op-eds that she pens that in the media the trans experience can be reduced to the soft-focus shots of the woman in question slowly putting on panyhose, staring in the mirror while applying make up etc.. 

 So, I have to ask the question, was she brought in after the first episode or so was in the can?  I say this because all promos, and even the first few minutes of the show were just that. Caitlyn and her "glam squad" , etc.

 Good question.  In the story linked about about Boylan being a consultant, the author talked to several experts:

 

What they [the experts in the story] most collectively desire: eschewing what they feel is often the media’s cheap, voyeuristic focus on physical changes — whether surgical, hormonal or sartorial — in favor of transformations in relationships that affect both the transgender subject and everyone around him or her. “The real story of human beings who transition can’t be told with one individual,” says Dr. Stephen Levine, a clinical professor of psychiatry at Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine.

I wonder what these same experts thought of the first episode? 

[nexxie]

And IMO, the most naturally beautiful of the bunch (sorry Kimmy).  I was watching something where her resemblance to Ali McGraw was pointed out. Wow. Yeah.

Kendall really is pretty and natural - loved how she told Kim and Kylie on one episode that everyone is beautiful.

[iwasish]

Also, Caitlyn was clear to her kids and in her interview with D. Sawyer that dating wasn't high on her list of priorities, almost going to the lengths of saying she wasn't thinking of a sexual life as a woman. Now we see her assistant suggesting she bring a sexy robe along on her girls trip and a clip of Candace (?) asking her on a date. She's certainly moving at lightning speed.

[Artsda]

 

IMHO, I don't think it's a "mistake" to use the name Bruce and the male pronouns when talking about something Bruce did before he transitioned to Caitlyn

 

I agree, because it's how Caitlyn and the family treat the pronouns themselves. Referencing that they hope Caitlyn is a better parent than Bruce was. Or that Bruce I didn't like, but Caitlyn I do. They themselves refer to Caitlyn as present tense and Bruce as the person she was before. Caitlyn said "Caitlyn has more fun than Bruce."  

[Kromm]

I hated the drop-in by Kim and Kanye. They were there for ten minutes! Not really a visit just time to be on camera! So lame. The fake hug of Kanye to Pam - that kind of cracked me up.

Well lets be honest.  They weren't really only there ten minutes, nor was it just some kind of drop-in. This is reality-fake-TV.  It was all arranged ahead of time (likely massively negotiated for weeks, and piles of money were definitely involved as compensation--since E! has to pay no matter what), and probably involved hours of shoots and reshoots to make it LOOK like that casual ten minutes.

 

I really AM concerned at people processing this show like it's a documentary. It's not.  This is all arranged, mostly scripted, and exhaustively shot and reshot. Even if you put the BEST motives on it and not the worst, the world shouldn't be seeing this as the kind of truth and spontaneity a documentary (tries) to deliver.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Kromm

[Human]

I agree, because it's how Caitlyn and the family treat the pronouns themselves. Referencing that they hope Caitlyn is a better parent than Bruce was. Or that Bruce I didn't like, but Caitlyn I do. They themselves refer to Caitlyn as present tense and Bruce as the person she was before. Caitlyn said "Caitlyn has more fun than Bruce."  

Esther was spotlighted showing how difficult the transition will be, not just for Cait.  

 

This is a transition.  These things take time, even for the person transitioning regardless if they've known for decades that they are not living as who they really are. We're dropped in on what amounts to the first day that Caitlyn is introduced.  It's the first day her mother meets Caitlyn.  It's the first day that Caitlyn has publicly dropped all of the Bruce pretenses.  It's not as simple as the transitioning person and the family just immediately flipping a switch and being perfect with pronouns and names.  It's an adjustment, a transition.  

 

The appropriate thing is to refer to a person by who they are in the present.  This means that when discussing the 1976 Olympics, it's Caitlyn Jenner won the gold medal.  If there is confusion, perhaps speaking with someone who doesn't know who Caitlyn Jenner is, a simple "she was previously known as Bruce Jenner" will suffice.  For further info, see the GLAAD reference guide.  Eventually using the appropriate pronoun and name will become easier for everyone, including for Caitlyn herself, her family, her fans, and other random people.  

[Kromm]

It's most appropriate to refer to Caitlin as who she is in the present even when speaking of her past. She has technically always been she and Caitlyn even when she was known by the world as he and Bruce.  

 

That said, it will take a while for everyone to adjust, especially as we are only just getting to know Caitlyn.  I'm glad they included the parts where Esther was struggling with pronouns and the name because it was very honest as to how difficult the transition can be for others.  We can just do our best to use the correct pronouns and name and try not to beat ourselves up too much if we make a mistake.

There shouldn't be any struggle in the present tense with pronouns. The right ones are clear, I hope.

 

The past is a thornier issue, but frankly the way the person herself (and her immediate circle) are doing it would seem to be allowable to the world, if that's how Caitlyn herself and her circle SEEM to be doing it. I think we need to be careful of correcting people on what may not need to be corrected when it comes to stuff like this--at least IMO. I appreciate that GLAAD might not fully agree, but should that really trump what the person themselves (at least at this point) seems to want?  If we hear otherwise from Caitlyn, then by all means...

Edited July 27, 2015 by Kromm

[Human]

The show is on again right now.  Right this moment there is Esther having one of the more emotional scenes where she's discussing how absolutely difficult it will be to refer to Caitlyn as she and by her name.  It's a very highlighted portion of the episode - that it's a transition, that it's hard, that it won't happen on this first time they meet the true Caitlyn.  Caitlyn makes a point of this in two separate talking heads.  It's a transition.  That being said, there is still an appropriate way to refer to someone. We generally refer to them by who they are in the present even when speaking of their pasts.  Caitlyn Jenner won a gold medal at the 1976 Olympics.

[formerlyfreedom]

The Reference Guide information has been posted here in the I Am Cait forum now; please reference this topic to answer your questions regarding appropriate language and feel free to PM any of the mods if you have an issue or question.

 

Thanks.

[Cosmocrush]

Also, Caitlyn was clear to her kids and in her interview with D. Sawyer that dating wasn't high on her list of priorities, almost going to the lengths of saying she wasn't thinking of a sexual life as a woman. Now we see her assistant suggesting she bring a sexy robe along on her girls trip and a clip of Candace (?) asking her on a date. She's certainly moving at lightning speed.

In one sense it does seem quick but when I remember she's been thinking about this for decades it doesn't seem so fast anymore.   At age 65, there isn't a lot of time left to spend pondering it.  

[xls]

I agree, because it's how Caitlyn and the family treat the pronouns themselves. Referencing that they hope Caitlyn is a better parent than Bruce was. Or that Bruce I didn't like, but Caitlyn I do. They themselves refer to Caitlyn as present tense and Bruce as the person she was before. Caitlyn said "Caitlyn has more fun than Bruce."  

She's still the same human being!

 

I love her mom, Esther, though, beautiful green eyes. She's keeping a stiff upper lip but a parent gets used to it eventually, I guess.

Edited July 27, 2015 by xls

[Cosmocrush]

 She [Caitlyn] is almost gloating over the designer clothes she has been given, not to mention how giddy she got over the thought of beating Kris out in a "Who wore it best" contest. And I loathe Kris Jenner!

Okay, I can't stand Kris Jenner either but that little scene in the closet was totally uncalled for in my opinion. It looked to me like two catty mean girls giggling over sticking it KJ.     It made me feel bad for Kris and that cannot happen!!! 

 

Seriously, if I was Kris I'd be 1) hurt then 2) Pissed Off.   I know the focus is supposed to be Caitlyn's relationships and helping people be accepting but I think this is one case where Caitlyn needs to take some responsibility and maybe some guilt about lying to Kris for the last 25 years.  In my opinion, Caitlyn's hands are not clean here. 

Edited July 27, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[Human]

I feel a bit bad now because I thought it was funny.  I didn't know it was an issue for women to own and wear the same outfit.  I just assumed it was a joke about both of them having the same "mom style", or at least rich celebrity version of mom style.  

[Kromm]

I feel a bit bad now because I thought it was funny.  I didn't know it was an issue for women to own and wear the same outfit.  I just assumed it was a joke about both of them having the same "mom style", or at least rich celebrity version of mom style.

I'd hold back on feeling TOO bad though, because really... what's the surety that it was a real incident and not a staged one? I'd say pretty low until we get any real sense that any more of this is legit than most of KUWTK. For me personally, it's more a sense that I COULD be sympathetic to real actual people in the same situation, but that because these PARTICULAR people act out fictional scenes all of the time and try to pass them off as real, I'm reserving judgment.

Lord. Again, I wish this show came with a "Not A Documentary" disclaimer. Argh! I know it's at least POSSIBLE something we see is real, but it just feels unlikely.

[Miss February]

I feel a bit bad now because I thought it was funny.  I didn't know it was an issue for women to own and wear the same outfit.  I just assumed it was a joke about both of them having the same "mom style", or at least rich celebrity version of mom style.  

 

(I'm very ignorant about this entire subject of transitioning.)  When I saw that scene I remembered that Caitlyn had told Diane Sawyer that it was important to her (Caitlyn) to keep a sense of humor.  When Caitlyn said "Who wore it best?" right after Kim said that her mom had the same dress, I thought that was simply a humorous thought Caitlyn had at that moment, imagining how odd yet typical it would be for the Fashion Police or People magazine to show the photos and ask that question.  Unfortunately, she and Kim went on to planning out a scenario of trapping Kris into such a situation, instead of leaving it as simply a quick and humorous remark.  I don't think Caitlyn meant it to be disparaging toward Kris at all, and I doubt that Kim did either; they were probably just nervous, and in trying too hard not to be nervous, they didn't allow the quip to just stand on its own without elaboration.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Miss February

[Cosmocrush]

I feel a bit bad now because I thought it was funny.  I didn't know it was an issue for women to own and wear the same outfit.  I just assumed it was a joke about both of them having the same "mom style", or at least rich celebrity version of mom style.  

Human, if they were having the same "Who wore it best" discussion and fantasized about orchestrating a face-off in the same dress about anyone but Kris it might be funny.  But I'm guessing that Kris has to be dealing with her own feelings of loss etc. on this issue just as any wife would feel after finding out that their spouse had been keeping such a ginormous secret from them for the entire marriage.   Realizing your partner never let you in on their authentic self especially when that self is another gender  has to screw with not only your heart but your head.  So yeah, it felt mean to me.  I think Caitlyn and the producers should just leave Kris out of the conversation unless they have her consent. Again, I hate that I feel bad for " that woman"  as Wendy Williams refers to Kris Jenner, 

 

I'd hold back on feeling TOO bad though, because really... what's the surety that it was a real incident and not a staged one? I'd say pretty low until we get any real sense that any more of this is legit than most of KUWTK. For me personally, it's more a sense that I COULD be sympathetic to real actual people in the same situation, but that because these PARTICULAR people act out fictional scenes all of the time and try to pass them off as real, I'm reserving judgment.

If it was staged, and I agree the odds are pretty good it was, that just makes it worse because it was planned. 

Edited July 28, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[Fostersmom]

^^ THIS. The lisp starting happening a while ago, even on the Kardahsian show. I think it's the result of some of the facial surgery in the mouth, teeth , jaw, gums area. I think something happened during that restructuring. Also one eye, the left, think seems pulled tighter than the other, it's a little "off."

 

I've yet to notice Caitlyn's lisp, but I tend to do other things while watching TV and don't pay full attention. I keep reading about it so I'm going to try to listen for it. But I have noticed the wonky eye and the lips. I'm chalking those up to all the BAD plastic surgery Bruce had over the years, apparently stating in the 1980's, and there being only so much a surgeon could do to fix it for Caitlyn. At some point, a surgeon can only do so much to repair so many wrongs. Given how many surgeries that face has gone through, it's a miracle Caitlyn does't look like that crazy plastic surgery addicted cat lady. 

[Thumper]

Good point, it may be due to long-ago plastic surgeries. I hear the speech impediment more as an "sh" sound for what should be an "s" sound -- like the exaggerated Sean Connery impressions on SNL.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

Good point, it may be due to long-ago plastic surgeries. I hear the speech impediment more as an "sh" sound for what should be an "s" sound -- like the exaggerated Sean Connery impressions on SNL.

That's what I'm hearing, too. I noticed it on KUWTK but it's more pronounced on Caitlyn. I'm curious whether it was caused by plastic surgery or has always been like that, and just gotten more pronounced now.

[operalover]

When Kendall asked "where is my dad?" They all answered HE is in the bedroom. 

 

I thought maybe because Dad = man? 

[venusnv80]

I liked Kanye dropping by and supporting Cait. Kanye may not be everyone's cup of tea, but for the most part, I like him. 

[lovinbob]

For better or worse, Caitlyn's audience is far bigger than those names.  It spans generations.  My father would have no idea who Laverne Cox is but he absolutely knows the name Bruce Jenner.   My fourteen year old niece had no idea about Jenner and the Olympics but knows her  as "Kendall and Kylie's Dad."   I'm not sure if she is the "right" person or not, but there is no denying she's far more famous than any other transgendered woman at the moment and if she can do anything to help older generations understand this issue then she is the right person right now.   

 

Edited to clean up pronoun use. 

I think the fact that we knew Bruce before is a reason why this story is valuable. Laverne Cox wasn't famous before she transitioned, was she? We didn't really see her "come out." Bruce was super-famous and now Caitlyn is, and so we're all "forced" to watch her story unfold. (I use "forced" in quotes because the ubiquitous nature of the Kardashian/Jenner family and the media coverage of Caitlyn make this story hard to avoid. I wouldn't be inclined to follow the story because I loathe the Kardashians and don't watch much reality TV anymore. With all that said, I'm interested in learning more about the trans experience, and I appreciate that Cait seems inclined to use her platform to create understanding, eliminate ignorance, and give hope to people who don't have the support and resources she has.) Anyway, I know plenty of people who would previously have rejected Cait's story (and know plenty who still do). But I think the fact that we are seeing it happen for someone so familiar, and that she happens to be showing so much humanity in the process, is making a lot of people think and be just a little more open.

 

I was distracted from listening to what Caitlyn was saying every time they did a closeup of her face. Wow, that was an aggressive facelift. Her eyebrows are pulled up on the edges, the "cat eye" look you see on many older women with facelifts. The nose job was pretty extreme too. The new nose looks too small and delicate for a person who is 6'2" tall and has big hands and feet. Sorry to sound trivial, but it did distract me.

This is another reason I wasn't initially inclined to watch the show. Bruce Jenner's bad surgery always turned me off completely. He struck me as vain and ridiculous. Now I wonder now if he underwent all that surgery in part b/c he wasn't comfortable in his skin? An extension of his gender dysphoria? Anyway, I think the effects of the surgery highlight a challenge that Cait faces, in transitioning in her 60s. The body at that age isn't as resilient as it might have been in her 20s and 30s. I'd imagine that transitioning sooner would lead to a more natural appearance.

[Miss February]

The way that Caitlyn chose her name seemed a little rushed and even superficial.  Caitlyn said that her assistant suggested the name and then Caitlyn was told that some people consider using the name his/her parents had chosen in case the baby was a different gender.  Esther didn't remember the girl's name she had picked out for Bruce, and then the conversation ended.  I would have thought the name would have had more meaning than simply an assistant suggesting it.  Perhaps there was more to it but the rest of the story was lost due to (poor) editing.

 

It would have been interesting to hear about Caitlyn's relationship with her father.  I kept expecting that to be discussed, but Esther and the sisters didn't bring it up.

[bagatelle]

The way that Caitlyn chose her name seemed a little rushed and even superficial.  Caitlyn said that her assistant suggested the name and then Caitlyn was told that some people consider using the name his/her parents had chosen in case the baby was a different gender.  Esther didn't remember the girl's name she had picked out for Bruce, and then the conversation ended.  I would have thought the name would have had more meaning than simply an assistant suggesting it.  Perhaps there was more to it but the rest of the story was lost due to (poor) editing.

 

I wanted to know about that too.  At one point, during the LInda years, she wanted to be a Heather and I can't remember the other name, I think it was Nicky… so I was surprised she picked Caitlyn, especially since her son has a girlfriend with that name, although she spells hers with a K.

 

And that's another thing… she picked a K sounding name. So bizarre. I was really hoping they would discuss the reason for the name, but of course, they didn't. I also want to know about all the facial surgeries she felt she needed… like the thing with the brow.  All we are seeing is the after, not what she went through.

[chuckity]

Also, I would really like to more on the struggles of people around Caitlyn to come to terms with the transition.

 

For family members, transitioning can be equal to a death of the person they once knew - there can be a serious grieving process that goes on.

 

We haven't really seen that.  From the Sawyer interview to now it's been pretty much, I will be transitioning and boom! call me Cait!  

 

The only one who has seemed really distraught is Kris.  

 

If Caitlyn is going to open up her life to the cameras on such a sensitive issue, I really wish she went balls to the walls.  (hehehehe!)  While I do like the dressing up and primping because I think it's sweet that she's finally being open I would much rather see them working through the grief and pain because that is the real reality in most cases.  

[Kromm]

IAnd that's another thing… she picked a K sounding name. So bizarre. I was really hoping they would discuss the reason for the name, but of course, they didn't. I also want to know about all the facial surgeries she felt she needed… like the thing with the brow.  All we are seeing is the after, not what she went through.

There is of course a sense that the C name is a deliberate take on the K names (making that story about where the name came from total bunk) and perhaps different merely so it's NOT a K name and gives the sense of them rather than coming off as yet another one of them. It's potentially a clever way to put yourself above them, but still absorb their glow, so to speak.

Again, this is coming from the same kind of place that makes me look at scenes on the show like the one in the closet (ack, isn't that odd to say about any LGBT) and think "oh, that's a scene and conversation they've deliberately setup". Thinking the choice of names comes from the same kind of strategizing/planning is sad... and yet I can't help but think it.

[Talented Tenth]

Kanye can't do anything without criticism. But yeah, I think that Esther was my favorite on this show.

 

So true.  Anyone who knows anything about Kanye's career knows that he's not a fame-chaser -- he doesn't have to be.  He's a legit A-list celeb who became famous due to his production and rapping.  There is absolutely nothing a Jenner or Kardashian can do for his career.  Kanye's stamp of approval can only help Caitlyn

[escape]

And of course Kanye has to make it about them - how amazing that the stepfather of a "supermodel" would come out like this!! Kim is Kanye's mirror, so that's how he sees it - rather than how amazing it is for a male Olympian. (Unless they edited that part out.)

Actually, he didn't.  He said "daughter" (read Kendall), not step daughter.  He also said to Caitlyn "you're a celebrity".  He was making the point that despite everything Caitlyn had going for her, she was willing to risk the public perception in order to be true to herself.

Edited July 28, 2015 by escape

[iwasish]

Human, if they were having the same "Who wore it best" discussion and fantasized about orchestrating a face-off in the same dress about anyone but Kris it might be funny.  But I'm guessing that Kris has to be dealing with her own feelings of loss etc. on this issue just as any wife would feel after finding out that their spouse had been keeping such a ginormous secret from them for the entire marriage.   Realizing your partner never let you in on their authentic self especially when that self is another gender  has to screw with not only your heart but your head.  So yeah, it felt mean to me.  I think Caitlyn and the producers should just leave Kris out of the conversation unless they have her consent. Again, I hate that I feel bad for " that woman"  as Wendy Williams refers to Kris Jenner, 

 

If it was staged, and I agree the odds are pretty good it was, that just makes it worse because it was planned. 

To me that conversation spoke volumes about Kim and her motivation for being there (the camera of course!!). In an earlier episode she was doing the ugly cry over poor mom who does so much for everyone  and how they all should appreciate her for what she does and how she cries all day long about the situation and was all about mom. There was the episode where she called Caitlyn out for "dating" her mother's best friend and demanded that she show mom the respect she deserves. But now she's grinning like a fool plotting how to put dear mommy on the spot.  She only cares about making herself look good.. see how open minded I am!! I hope Kris rips her a new one for being so two faced. 

[JBC344]

So true.  Anyone who knows anything about Kanye's career knows that he's not a fame-chaser -- he doesn't have to be.  He's a legit A-list celeb who became famous due to his production and rapping.  There is absolutely nothing a Jenner or Kardashian can do for his career.  Kanye's stamp of approval can only help Caitlyn

Amen.  Kanye can enrage me at times but the man is a true visionary.  I just wish that more people can get past the bravado and enjoy that part of him.

 

I actually found his scenes to be very cute and welcoming.  His speech about facing public scrutiny to be yourself I thought was very sweet. Yes, he dropped an F-bomb but it was done in a positive spirit.  I also liked his exchange with Pam, she seemed curious about his sneakers and you could see Kanye get excited explaining them to her.

[Artsda]

 

He's a legit A-list celeb who became famous due to his production and rapping.  There is absolutely nothing a Jenner or Kardashian can do for his career.

 

Exactly, being with Kim/that family was actually worse for him. however his fanbase isn't really the same as KUWTK. If his appearing and tolerance helps then good for him for wanting to do it for the cause. 

[hendersonrocks]

But maybe Jennifer Boylan can help keep this show somewhat on track - although she's just one consultant.

 

 

True - and important to keep in mind. But I have to admit that I looooove Jennifer Finney Boylan and respect her tremendously, so knowing this gives me more faith in I Am Cait than I ever would have had otherwise. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Will It Always Take This Many Cars For Caitlyn Jenner To Get Off The Mountain? / And other not-quite-burning questions about the series premiere of I Am Cait.

[bagatelle]

His speech about facing public scrutiny to be yourself I thought was very sweet. Yes, he dropped an F-bomb but it was done in a positive spirit. 

 

"Yeah I think this is one of the strongest things ah that have happened in our you know, existence as human beings that are so controlled by perception. Cause you couldn't have been up against more like ah your daughter's a super model like you're a celebrity."

 

I still can't understand him, although after typing this, I can a little more now.

[jnymph]

 

 

I love her mom, Esther, though, beautiful green eyes. She's keeping a stiff upper lip but a parent gets used to it eventually, I guess.

 

I'm on the Esther love train.    She really proved to be quite a lovely lady.

 

Come to think of it though; she won me over when I heard she didn't get along with Kris Jenner.  LOL !

Edited July 28, 2015 by jnymph

[nexxie]

"Yeah I think this is one of the strongest things ah that have happened in our you know, existence as human beings that are so controlled by perception. Cause you couldn't have been up against more like ah your daughter's a super model like you're a celebrity."

 

I still can't understand him, although after typing this, I can a little more now.

Kanye and Kim seem "so controlled by perception" - not true for everyone.

[Maharincess]

This isn't rewriting history. She still is the same person who competed at the Olympics and won the gold medal. It's simply referring to her as who she is in the present rather than who she had to be in the past.

This is not a great example, but compare this with a woman who changes her name upon marriage. We call her Mrs. MarriedName. When speaking about things she did in high school, we are still referring to her as Mrs. MarriedName rather than Mrs. MaidenName. Or, look at the gazillion celebrities who change their name for whatever reason. We don't call Fergie "Stacy Ann" when discussing things she did before she professionally and legally changed her name. It's not revising history in any way to refer to who she is in the present even if she was called something different in the past.

I actually think this is a great example. It makes a lot of sense and its easy for anybody to understand.

Thanks Human.

[CousinAmy]

I'm not sure that Kim and Kanye showed up to grab some reflected glory - it seems to me that they are bigger "stars" than Caitlyn was - up until the debut of her series, I guess - and so they were there to help the ratings, not themselves. 

[Kromm]

I'm not sure that Kim and Kanye showed up to grab some reflected glory - it seems to me that they are bigger "stars" than Caitlyn was - up until the debut of her series, I guess - and so they were there to help the ratings, not themselves. 

While Kim is at times fairly stupid, her representation isn't always. I think it's been clear for a while now that Caitlyn would be getting a media blitz (and in the "serious" non-TMZ type media) and simply being a "bigger" star doesn't exempt Kim and her people from wanting placement, mention and inclusion in something reportedly more "serious".  It's why Kanye bought her those magazine covers we've rolled our eyes about.  This is the same thing. Kim hoping she's no longer regarded as just a freak show (even though in other ways she simultaneously encourages other things which can't help but show her as part of one).