S03.E08: The Great Red Dragon

[ElectricBoogaloo]

NBC is now airing Hannibal on Saturday nights in the United States, but the show is still airing on Thursdays in Canada. This means discussion of the episode will begin on Thursdays. If you want to remain unspoiled, you have been forewarned!

Dr. Hannibal Lecter has been under lock and key for three years at the Baltimore State Hospital for the Criminally Insane, when a new villain arises in Francis Dolarhyde, also known as "The Tooth Fairy." As the investigation unfolds Jack Crawford approaches Will Graham to help catch this vicious serial killer who is targeting families.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBL5IlwgWY0

 

Canadian promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyJ9SKhe564

Edited July 23, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Tippi Blevins]

I was occasionally momentarily confused because I thought Francis looked like Dr. Chilton in the more shadowy scenes.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I usually appreciate the beautiful visuals but as the opening credits began for this episode, I thought dude, did I seriously just watch five minutes of a guy doing yoga and getting a tattoo? I'm not saying that I need nonstop dialogue but still. On the other hand, the food porn in this episode was gorgeous.

 

Awwwwww, Will has a pack of dogs again! That warmed my little heart. I'm surprised he didn't run straight for the woods when he saw Jack get out of his car.

 

Everyone in the coroner's office continues to be delightful.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

Watched this while at work so need to rewatch again, but I got the impression Alana and Chilton played a part in Hannibal getting the insanity plea, and so escaping a death sentence? Are they insane?

 

 

Hannibal is allowed to cook and entertain guests (even if just a few, and probably not of his preference)? And has scissors etc around? And that looks like one big, luxury cell, and even if the luxury stuff is his imagination (and I don't think it is, when he imagines he gets to be in his old office etc), the cell still is too big. Not at all like the cells Gideon and Will had. He sure is getting a special treatment... It almost feels like they changed a room in a house into a cell just for him, and there is no one else there. Definitely a much much better treatment than the one he was shown to get in the movies.

 

I feel really sad for Alana. I think she is the one person that has been most damaged by Hannibal and I am expecting her to die this season, which makes me even sadder. I liked Alana, the warm, caring Alana of S1. And her "pro-Hannibal" blindness in S2 was grating, but understandable, and I mourn for how cold and rigid she has gotten after the ordeal.

 

They did a good job in presenting the Tooth Fairy's madness...

 

Will, even Hannibal is warning you to not get involved, what were you thinking? Molly is sooo going to regret encouraging you to go. On the other hand, I guess that was Hannibal using reverse psychology on you. Who delivered the note though?

 

 

It always feels weird to me when the investigator goes back to the scene crime in the middle of the dark, and looks around using a flashlight rather then turning on the lights. I assume it is so he can get into the mind of the killer and all, but still...

 

Heh, of course Will is worried about the victim's dogs.

And that is supposed to be significant if they follow the original story

, Jack, so let him worry about the dog.

 

Happy to have the FBI team back, and them welcoming Will back made me happy. Looks like Will tried to make a brand new start, cutting everyone from his old life off, and I can understand that, but it is also sad. I know working for the FBI, being back in the field isn't "good" for Will, but it sure is good to have him back with the FBI...

 

Oh and that talk about strays reminded me of the old couple next door. They love cats and collect stray cats (the husband even buıild a shed in their garden just for the cats so they will be warm during winter) but they are also complaining about how people just drop cats in front of their house now, knowing they will just look after them all... It was nice seeing Will at ease and happy, though I wish we knew more about Molly and Walter (if I heard it right..) to feel more connected to them, and Will's new life, I doubt they can spare much time on them.

 

Also funny how the kid's name changes in each version. I believe it was Willy in the books, Joshua in Norton's Red Dragon and now Walter... Don't remember what it was in Manhunter.

Edited July 24, 2015 by DeadlyEuphoric

[kmm49]

Welcome back old show. Best episode this season by far! THIS is the show I missed so far this season. The hour flew by.

 

Richard Armitage was awesome. Wow!

 

Armitage/Dancy/Mikkelson - best male casting on TV ever! Let's not forget Jack and Dr. Chilton too.

 

How did Will meet Molly out in his snowy deserted cabin? Not crazy about Molly but I'll give her a few more episodes and wait and see if they actually develop her character or if she ends up dead. Don't kill her son! Now that Will's got a family and The Tooth Fairy kills families...ah oh!

 

 

[Tippi Blevins]

I wonder how much Molly knows? Will probably has some notoriety for having been the former patient/friend of a famous cannibal, and was probably written up in the articles and books. But did he tell her stuff like, "So, hey, Hannibal and I almost adopted a daughter and fled the country together." Because if so, she has a way more open mind than I do. I don't care how adorable Will and his dogs are. That is just a wee bit more baggage than I could handle. I'd be afraid he'd snap again.

 

I think Will said the kid's name was Walker. 

 

Also, this episode illustrates why I've never wanted a glass paned door.

 

Even Hannibal's prison overalls look nicely tailored. Or does he just automatically make clothes look nicer?

[solequeene]

Amazing episode. I loved the dialogue and the cinematography and prety much everything. Richard Armitage was incredible and he didn't even need to speak. God, this will be a hell of a story.

[kmm49]

Because if so, she has a way more open mind than I do. I don't care how adorable Will and his dogs are. That is just a wee bit more baggage than I could handle. I'd be afraid he'd snap again.

 

He might snap. Afterall, he's hitting the bottle. This is thanks to Jack though. Seeing how happy Will was with his family why bring him back in?

 

And that looks like one big, luxury cell, and even if the luxury stuff is his imagination (and I don't think it is, when he imagines he gets to be in his old office etc), the cell still is too big.

 

The luxury stuff's definitely his imagination! But he still has it made.

 

I can't get used to Hannibal's prison haircut or Alana's 1950s hairstyle.

 

Where did Will's dogs actually go? He didn't board them for that long did he? I'd hate to see that bill.

Edited July 24, 2015 by kmm49

[kechara]

Was that a pregnant \Alanna that Hannibal was drawing while talking to her ?

 

Oh - and then there was the stag head on Chilton (or Alanna's) desk. I chuckled

Edited July 25, 2015 by kechara

[Litnit]

This episode went so quickly I thought I had skipped something.  I haven't felt that way all season.

 

The imaginary scenery was a bit confusing at first.  Is the big cell perhaps because he's in a hospital for the criminally insane?  I'd like to read Dr. Chilton's book.

 

Will we get a follow up of what happened to Ms. Verger (can't remember her first name) or have we moved on thanks to the time jump?

[unworried well]

DeadlyEuphoric:

Jack, so let him worry about the dog.

This.

 

I hated Jack in that moment. He brought Will back, he may ruin his life, and he doesn't even listen to him? Really?

And lets remember what happened when Will asked about the cat in Apéritif...

[PurpleFishHead]

Was Zoe Kazan playing Molly?

[Primetimer]

Lunar imagery in Hannibal.

Read the story

[AimingforYoko]

Pretty faithful adaptation of the text, Alana taking Chilton's place at the hospital excepted. Chilton with his feet up at her desk was a nice misdirect.

Was Zoe Kazan playing Molly?

Nina Arianda is the actress' name.

Edited July 26, 2015 by AimingforYoko

[lulee]

Loved the little dig at Freddie -- looking forward to seeing her again!

[midge]

Eh.  Richard Armitage is creepy and his physicality is amazing, but this felt almost like a filler episode to me.  It is set up for the new story line, so I'm OK with it.   Will is not my favorite character so maybe that's why I'm a little blah about the whole thing.  I'm just feeling unfulfilled. 

[AimingforYoko]

Loved the little dig at Freddie -- looking forward to seeing her again!

Is it chauvinist of me to hope she doesn't share her namesake's fate?

[MisterGlass]

I enjoyed the Freddie reference too!  I don't think hoping

she doesn't die tortured and on fire

would be chauvinistic if it is out of affection for the character.  And given how she was used to trick Hannibal in Season 2, I'd expect some twist.

 

Price and Zeller were so, so welcome.  Even with five minutes they managed to brighten things up.  And I was so happy to see the dogs!  The pack has grown.

 

Poor Will looked so happy at the cabin and on the verge of tears as he ducked back into a killer's mindset.  I don't often accuse Hannibal of being philanthropic but he isn't wrong to give Will a warning.

 

I like the contrast between Hannibal's mind palace and Will's mind river from Season 2.  He includes taste and smell in his fantasy, of course.  Hannibal does have a better baseline set of furnishings and resources here than Will did.  That could be a combination of celebrity and their desire to keep him entertained enough to remain...docile is the wrong word but it's what I'm coming up with.  I wonder how quickly they decided on the glass over bars, and who died in the process.

 

Alana taking over for Chilton was a surprise.  I like the opportunity they have to play off of each other.  It was kind of nice of Alana to warn him that Hannibal was going to eviscerate him in print.  Chilton remains a weasel but he is at least a self aware weasel.

 

I'm not sure yet about Molly, but I did like Richard Armitage's performance.

 

Is Barney one of the characters they don't have the rights to?

[lulee]

Yes, I believe so. Barney, Clarice, and a few others.

[LittleIggy]

Ooh, I didn't know Richard Armitage was going to be in this. Another hottie like Mads playing a psycho killer! Yay, Chilton is back! Makes up for Will the pill.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

They did Nina Arianda so wrong with that hair.

Armitage did not disappoint, welcome to the show Sir.

[Actionmage]

I am not even sure how to express feelings just now.

*My lab guys are back! The palpable relief Jimmy had seeing  Zeller mirrored my own at seeing both.

*The pack's back! I know, it's strange to be concerned with pretend dogs, but they are part of Will's support system. How he is can be outwardly indicated with them. They were happy, so that was a nice note.

*Jack. He is consistent. I hope that Molly didn't believe a word from his face, but realizes Jack meant he'd try to make sure Will would be safe. Although, Jack's definition and pretty much anyone who cares about Will's definition are not going to meet in the middle. Mr. Fishburne can rock headgear and those really natty coats.

*Alana, who came off nicely in that Medieval/ Mucha style sketch, should find a happier medium in clothing. Keep the red and black; I just miss the looser Alana, as another poster mentioned. I get how deeply she's been damaged, I just wish more nicety and optimism for her. (By the way, three years is long enough for her to have had Margo's relative, if Alana was the surrogate.)  My favorite line of hers was "Get out of my chair, Frederick."

*Frederick?  I think I'd like to see an unctuous-off between Dr. Chilton and Delores Umbridge. Maybe it'd be a draw. I loved his brief freeze at the mention of blood in the dessert. Akin to Alana's quitting beer-drinking . A: "...after what I found out you put in there-" H: "Who."  Frederick is playing with fire again, thinking he can actually handle Dr. Lecter and betting his manners and sychophantic antics will keep him safer. He is a unique on, Our Frederick.

*Francis D.: I don't even know. Mr. Armitage has been around my Fantasy Harem for a bit, but I hope I can still enjoy him in other projects after this. The film-wrapped face was gorgeous and the spookiest sight shown. (Creepiest: the description of the mirror we were not privy to in the episode. ::shudder::) There is so much violence around him, yet there seems to be a palpable fear and terror when he ... transforms? I can't say I'm looking forward to finding out more, but my curiosity is pulling me through.

*Hannibal. After all the talk about mind palaces here and over on Elementary, tonight's visuals were nice and what I would expect of Dr. Lecter. Even the young singer. As for why he's in the equivalent of the penthouse suite of the ritziest hotel? He's not given anyone any reason to take away his privileges yet, is what I am guessing. He's been polite for three years. (I think the scissors were Francis' because Hannibal used saliva  and folds to break down his paper. I do the same when I don't want to hunt for scissors.)  I do wonder what Hannibal has written. If Alana thinks it might blow them/ Frederick up, professionally, then can't Alana or Frederick ensure that the article disappear? Hopefully, Alana will let the article get published.

*Will? Like Zeller and Jimmy, I was glad to see him, but because he was happy and had built something good. I feel conflicted about Will returning to the FBI. He's one of the best, so it's a job he does well. But he is one of the best. I can see why Will would feel conflicted. I like that Molly reassured him that she wouldn't change. The end of Will's recreation, with the "ballistic"/ blood spatter strings, though? Nicely done, Show and Art Director. While we saw the strings from the moment he entered the bedroom, and we knew what was coming, it still was visually stunning.

Okay, apparently, I found some words. *g*

Plus? I appreciated the creative ways to imply the sheer volume of blood loss without resorting to throwing watered down tomato paste at everything. The "black" blood was a good way to go, as they were in very dark lighting. The recreation's orange-seeming blood also was evocative without drowning us in ultra-realistic gouts of blood. That I could look at Will's face and not continually be horrified over the scene in that respect was appreciated by this viewer.  

Sorry for the word spew, but this show gives me all sorts of feels and thinks. I appreciate being able to come here to post and read everyone's posts.

[Tippi Blevins]

There were so many weird typos in the news articles floating across the screen. I'm going to pretend it was a sly commentary on the sad state of news editing these days, rather than sloppily made props.

[catrox14]

So is this Will as Clarice's stand-in?

[Snookums]

Hannibal is allowed to cook and entertain guests (even if just a few, and probably not of his preference)? And has scissors etc around? And that looks like one big, luxury cell, and even if the luxury stuff is his imagination (and I don't think it is, when he imagines he gets to be in his old office etc), the cell still is too big. Not at all like the cells Gideon and Will had. He sure is getting a special treatment... It almost feels like they changed a room in a house into a cell just for him, and there is no one else there. Definitely a much much better treatment than the one he was shown to get in the movies.

 

 

I was really surprised there wasn't a snark-off between Alana and Chilton there. I presumed that Chilton rigged Hannibal up in style in order to "study" his new pet in its natural environment (and to show H off, as the circus carney he is at heart),  and maybe Alana's pragmatic enough to decide just to keep everything in place--the less Hannibal picks off the support staff the better, after all, and the time/effort/money it would take to build a whole new containment system and move Hannibal into it probably just didn't pencil out. I do find it amusing that they'd let him cook, though--around all those knives and hot things? Maybe it's a dare--go on, Lecter, poison or stab or burn somebody, I'm waiting for the chance to take away your penthouse suite.

 

Soooo glad to see our favorite tech boys back on the scene and hear mention of Freddie! It's old home week, it is! I'm assuming Mrs. Leeds had to be buried by a certain time due to religious beliefs; otherwise what's the big rush?

 

I am very surprised that Will didn't just start firing wild shots at Jack's car the minute he saw it while bellowing OH HELL NO, but that's not his way, I guess. 

[jeansheridan]

No this is Will from the book Red Dragon. This is very close to the source material except Will is in sunny Florida.

Mixed feelings. I wanted more of Will's home life. I wanted to find out how he got somewhat healthy again. And how a woman with a son would choose him. I want to understand what he has to lose now. And how did he become emotionally able to maintain a marriage? I figured with six hours Fuller would have time to show that.

I like their stylized approach to Hannibal' s cell. That his mental power is such he can project his memory onto his cell walls.

I don't think he is literally cooking. I doubt the hospital would give him such grand ingredients. But the Chilton talk wasn't as elegantly shot as his talk with Alana.

I think Alana and Chilton lied to protect their careers. And maybe Alana to protect Margot. I am not entirely sure what lies they have told. I can see Alana not wanting him dead. Let him live caged. I have my suspicions how that will play out for her.

I am surprised Hannibal has Will's address. That was a major plot point in the films and book.

Edited July 26, 2015 by jeansheridan

[GreyBunny]

Hannibal is allowed to cook and entertain guests (even if just a few, and probably not of his preference)? And has scissors etc around? 

The scissors were Dolarhyde's.  They went back and forth with clips of Dolarhyde cutting out articles for his Scrapbook o' Crazy and clips of Hannibal tearing out the article for his (love) letter to Will.

[mertensia]

Will when even Hannibal thanks you should run from the search for the Tooth Fairy....run. Run fast. Run hard.

Tippi Blevins to be honest if Will told me "oh yes; I worked with Hannibal Lecter" without mentioning the whole sublimated homoeroticism bit I'd be running to Canton, Ohio or wherever to hide. Because any fool can see he's going to escape.

[zomfies]

I wonder how quickly they decided on the glass over bars, and who died in the process.

 

I doubt anyone has died at Hannibal's hands in the three years he's been imprisoned. For one thing, he and Alana discuss his dozen, or baker's dozen, of murder convictions. Surely it would come up if he'd killed someone in the asylum.

 

For another, I think it makes sense if Hannibal only starts killing people while imprisoned once the storyline of Red Dragon plays out and 

Will Graham is so badly hurt that Hannibal never sees him again.

His whole attitude to his situation changes after that point, I think.

 

There were so many weird typos in the news articles floating across the screen. I'm going to pretend it was a sly commentary on the sad state of news editing these days, rather than sloppily made props.

 

There's a typo in the first line of the crime scene report Will looks at - I think from memory is says "lai" instead of "lay".

[c8h10n4o2]

The Bloody Armitage scene is a direct call-back to the movie when Hannibal tells Will "Have you ever seen blood in the moonlight? It looks quite . . . black."

[jeansheridan]

I just realized that Alana is as caged as Hannibal. By choosing to be his jailor she can never shake him. It is a hard choice she has made.

Chilton continues to be a delight. I think he is wrong about Hannibal feeling ignored. I think I wanted to feel Hannibal pining a bit more for Will. I get why Will has emotional distance. He broke it off. He moved on. But where is the Hannibal who sat in office opposite an empty chair, missing Will. I got no hint of that Hannibal. I think the show rushed this meeting too quickly. It lacked some gut punch.

But no doubt it will come.

[Chaos Theory]

Chilton has every reason to keep Hannibal happy. Hannibal made his career and keeping him in some luxury makes him more likely to talk. Chilton is a hack and using Hannibal to profile a killer before the FBI does is his best and only option to keep his career moving.

I think Alana is a case of be careful what you wish for. She always wanted to understand Hannibal but the only people who really can are those who have been damaged by him.

I think my favorite scene was them talking.

Hannibal -"When did you stop drinking beer?"

Alana - "When I found out what you were putting in it."

Hannibal - "Who."

Alana - "Who."

Edited July 26, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[dargosmydaddy]

Price and Zeller! The swoosh-swoosh and "This is my design"! Will actually being relevant to the plot! Doggies! Oh, welcome back, show. I've missed you so much...

 

Other observations:

*Jack's back to being an asshole... he was actually my favorite character for the first half of this season, but I'll trade that in a heartbeat for a competent Will.

*The FBI must have a really good plastic surgeon... Will's face seems unscarred.

 

I think Will said the kid's name was Walker.

*CC said "Walter."

[thuganomics85]

Price and Zeller!  I didn't realize how much I missed them until I saw Aaron Abrams and Scottie Thompson's names in the credits and knew they would be back!  I'm thrilled that the wiseass coroners are back!  Although, it sounded like Price as moved up in the organization!

 

A lot of this did feel like vintage first-season stuff, which was cool, although I was reminded again how much of an asshole Jack could be.  He knows damn well what this is going to probably do to Will, but he doesn't seem to show any concern and basically treats Will like a nuisance.  Even with the little stuff.  Jack knows damn well Will loves stray dogs, so maybe handle it with more grace then basically saying "We don't give a shit, Will!"  While I do think they need Will to defeat the Tooth Fairy/Red Dragon, I worry what this is going to do to Will.

 

Loved seeing the different "mind palaces", Hannibal had with Alana, Chillton, and Will.  Totally not surprised Will is going to try and use him help with the case.  I am confused over whatever is going on with Alana and Chilton.  Did they screw with the case to have Hannibal be insane instead of put to death?  And what's with the journal article that Hannibal is planning on writing?  Alana didn't seem bothered by it, but Chilton was freaking out a bit.  What is their game?

 

Richarrd Armitage looks like he's going to a good Frank Dolarhyde.  He's already got the physical presence nailed down.  He didn't say anything, but I'm really curious to see what his deal is and whatever the hell is causing him to murder families like he does.

 

Will now has a wife and step-son.  I'm sure the books explain how they met, but I for one, would love if it was internet dating, because Will's online profile would no doubt be a sight to behold!  Especially if he included pictures of his dog family!

 

NBC didn't even bother putting a preview for next week; opting for that Wesley Snipes show instead.  Thanks for nothing, NBC.

[saber5055]

As far as I remember, the books did not say how Will met/married Molly. They just "were." I have to say, I did not think Molly's physical appearance matched Will at all. Or maybe I'm just thinking he would look better with me ...

 

Although Fuller could certainly make something up about how they met. Maybe we'll get that in a soliloquy or something.

 

My question is, the Tooth Fairy has only murdered two families? And in two very distant states? How can they know it's the same person and he murders on the full moon when the real bumbling police detectives in one state wouldn't have even heard about the murders in another state, much less put the two together.

 

Glad to see this back to S1. Maybe if Fuller had started this season with this episode, there would have been no cancellation. 

 

And I noticed Will kept a clump of hair over where his head got sawn (sawed?) so as to simplify make up matters.

[Snookums]

Will when even Hannibal thanks you should run from the search for the Tooth Fairy....run. Run fast. Run hard.

 

 

That scene was a little master of dancing with the devil. Will opens the letter, reads it and the clippings, and instantly understands:

 

1) This is what Hannibal has been waiting for.

 

2) Hannibal telling him to back away from the Tooth Fairy case is reverse psychology, and Hannibal knows that Will understands that.

 

3) That if Will does indeed tell Jack to pound sand and refuse to participate, Hannibal will come up with something far more ghoulish and bloody to get his love lost's attention. Will has a family now, one that really can have no idea as to what he's been through because only people who have been through it can possibly grasp it. Hannibal won't hesitate to find a way to ruin Will's new happiness and Will knows it. 

 

4) Three years gone, and it's still like they just met. Will, and for that matter everyone else, cannot find a new planet to settle on. To borrow Sars's moon metaphor, their own blood lacuna are filled with Hannibal. Everybody says they've got new lives but they're just waiting. 

 

5) Will burns the letter and next thing you know, Vroomp Vroomp swishes and he's standing in a loom of blood. This is his design.

 

NBC didn't even bother putting a preview for next week; opting for that Wesley Snipes show instead.  Thanks for nothing, NBC.

 

 

 

Oh, that pissed us off so much! NBC might as well be spitting on the fans at this point--the end credits music is part of the entire mood of the show! 

 

And is there no episode next week, or what?

[Pixel]

So is this Will as Clarice's stand-in?

No. Clarice does not appear until Silence of the Lambs. Red Dragon is Will and Hannibal's story alone.

[Anela]

Will when even Hannibal thanks you should run from the search for the Tooth Fairy....run. Run fast. Run hard.

Tippi Blevins to be honest if Will told me "oh yes; I worked with Hannibal Lecter" without mentioning the whole sublimated homoeroticism bit I'd be running to Canton, Ohio or wherever to hide. Because any fool can see he's going to escape.

I live near Canton, and can't picture anyone running here. Although, I live in a more remote setting. 

 

I loved the episode. I was too tired to keep watching last night, so I finished this afternoon. It was weird seeing Will with any woman, but I like that she looked more normal, rather than ravishing young actress. I could see them being my neighbours - and my Will crush is back with his continuing to rescue strays. I need a man like that. 

 

I loved the FBI guys coming back, Chilton needling Hannibal (he never learns, does he? but I was amused by the talk of Hannibal having a select audience, since the show also has a strong group of fans, but not enough to keep it on the air). I didn't like seeing Will go back to that. I thought that Molly didn't want him to go - in the movie, wasn't she angry that he went? 

[attica]

Nina Arianda is the actress' name.

 

She and Dancy did a long run together on the NY stage in Venus in Fur; she won a Tony. So, they have long running practice with the smooching.

Alana - "When I found out what you were putting in it."

Hannibal - "Who."

Alana - "Who."

 

Would have been so so so much better if Alana had corrected him: "Whom."

 

Never having had a tat myself, I did not recognize that device in the opening scenes. Now I know! Thanks, show!

 

[walnutqueen]

Blech.  I'll be glad when the pretentious imagery ends with this series.  On the other hand, I like the dogs, and the characters when they're actually doing or saying something that doesn't resemble some jejune imagining an acid trip flashback.

[lulee]

I live near Canton, and can't picture anyone running here. Although, I live in a more remote setting.

Fellow Ohioan and I thought, "Is Will a big football fan and I missed that reference? Maybe he could go into a trance when someone swings Bronko Nagurski's ring in front of him."

 

Will would probably be more comfortable closer to a big river or lake, as long as he didn't have to look out for algae blooms.

[RazzleberryPie]

Blech.  I'll be glad when the pretentious imagery ends with this series.  On the other hand, I like the dogs, and the characters when they're actually doing or saying something that doesn't resemble some jejune imagining an acid trip flashback.

I realize this week seemed a little slow compared to last week, and that this week is most likely slower as a set up for upcoming episodes. But, yeah, I agree, the imagery is so pretentious, that I just fast forward and hope the close captioning picked up any dialogue. Reminds me of the Emperor with No Clothing - we're supposed to ooh, and ahh with a smug little snicker, but in reality, the artsy indulgence just isn't there anymore. 

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I wonder how much Molly knows? Will probably has some notoriety for having been the former patient/friend of a famous cannibal, and was probably written up in the articles and books. But did he tell her stuff like, "So, hey, Hannibal and I almost adopted a daughter and fled the country together." Because if so, she has a way more open mind than I do. I don't care how adorable Will and his dogs are. That is just a wee bit more baggage than I could handle. I'd be afraid he'd snap again.

 

 

Also, this episode illustrates why I've never wanted a glass paned door.

 

 

Don't think she knows much more than what the public knows. Doubt Will would feel like talking about it much, especially when it comes to his "feelings" for Hannibal - those are exactly what troubled him for so long as he tried to figure them out, and what he is trying to bury... Some of the Abigail stuff he would omit too because he wants Abigail to be left in peace...

 

Based on all the crime and thriller etc. movies and series I watched, I will never understand why people would have glass panel doors or windows...

 

The imaginary scenery was a bit confusing at first.  Is the big cell perhaps because he's in a hospital for the criminally insane?  I'd like to read Dr. Chilton's book.

 

Will we get a follow up of what happened to Ms. Verger (can't remember her first name) or have we moved on thanks to the time jump?

 

Will was also in the hospital for criminally insane when he was locked up, the exact same hospital actually. So if we are not seeing Hannibal's cell through what his imagination turns it into, that is sure special treatment. I like the idea that because Chilton may have been humoring him in hopes he will be more forthcoming in sessions etc. Being a celebrity and a world-renown psychiatrist whose academic contributions are much valued may have helped too, as well as having a very good lawyer?

 

I also want to read Chilton's book. and Freddie's book on Will. Surely she would publish that and made much money out of it, no? Though it looks like she continues her brand of "journalism", so maybe she couldn't. As I got the idea if she could publish the book, she would have made lots of money, and ran off to Hollywood or something to move onto "bigger" stuff. Possible she just wasted away the money I guess.

 

DeadlyEuphoric:

 

 

This.

 

I hated Jack in that moment. He brought Will back, he may ruin his life, and he doesn't even listen to him? Really?

And lets remember what happened when Will asked about the cat in Apéritif...

Seriously, when you just pulled a man back from his peaceful life to get into a serial-killer's mind for you again, especially when the last time you did that it almost destroyed him emotionally and physically, the least you can do it not be condescending to him and treat him like a "crazy dog person"...

 

I enjoyed the Freddie reference too!  I don't think hoping

she doesn't die tortured and on fire

would be chauvinistic if it is out of affection for the character.  And given how she was used to trick Hannibal in Season 2, I'd expect some twist.

 

What happened in season 2 gives me some hope too, on the other hand I assume at least one person Will knows personally will die this season, and characters like Freddie and Chilton are usually first to go so I will keep worrying for her.

 

I am surprised Hannibal has Will's address. That was a major plot point in the films and book.

 

Does he know his address? In the movies, he would write Will Christmas cards and letters, and apparently FBI saw it to it that he got them, so maybe something similar is done here? Though given Will wants nothing to do with Hannibal I'd have expected them to know to not deliver anything to him. Or maybe Fuller decided doing the "movie" stuff where Hannibal found out about Will's address wouldn't work in present time that well so just allowed him to know the address for story purposes?

 

 

One problem I had was Molly asking Jack "you will take him anyway, won't you" and then proceeding to push Will to go herself. Will is not Jack's slave, if he doesn't want to go he can stay where he is, don't see how Jack could just "take him" regardless and it bugs me when people talk about another one like this, like they have no free will or mind of their own to make the decision themselves. I understand that using the family photos and "need to stop the killing" reasoning Jack won over Molly to his side (same technique he was using on Will), and she in turn ended up supporting Will to go, in part to make it easier for him, but really given she knows Will doesn't really want to go because this is horrible for him, I would have preferred to see her supporting of his decision and wishes rather than Jack's... Molly in the books and movies was the opposite, in that she didn't want Will to go at all as she was worried for him, and I would have preferred that. On the other hand, given Will is already very much unwilling to go, guess they couldn't have his wife unsupportive too, they needed Molly also wanting him to go be the hero for Will to change his mind on avoiding all this, and agreeing to go. And besides,  I think Fuller is going for a story where she will regret that decision big time, and her promise to "not change" herself will fail too, so Will's life will be once again be destroyed

In the Norton movie it was Molly who shot and killed  Tooth Fairy before he could kill Will, which is how it is in the book too, I assume, and I can see how that incident may end up changing her...

. It also fits with Chilton telling Will, earlier this season, that his life wasn't going to get any better than it is.

 

 

ETA: Hannibal's new haircut needs to go. When Hannibal Lecter is saying "I am not insane" and I am having Sheldon Cooper flashes, you know you did something wrong with his hair.

Edited July 26, 2015 by DeadlyEuphoric

[AttackTurtle]

As far as I remember, the books did not say how Will met/married Molly. They just "were." I have to say, I did not think Molly's physical appearance matched Will at all. Or maybe I'm just thinking he would look better with me ...

Although Fuller could certainly make something up about how they met. Maybe we'll get that in a soliloquy or something.

My question is, the Tooth Fairy has only murdered two families? And in two very distant states? How can they know it's the same person and he murders on the full moon when the real bumbling police detectives in one state wouldn't have even heard about the murders in another state, much less put the two together.

Glad to see this back to S1. Maybe if Fuller had started this season with this episode, there would have been no cancellation.

And I noticed Will kept a clump of hair over where his head got sawn (sawed?) so as to simplify make up matters.

If I recall correctly, both families were staged very similarly (glass in the eyes, mom the focus, etc...). The book was a pretty chilling read.

Further, I think when an entire white family is mudered in this fashion, the FBI probably is alerted; particularly with smaller police departments.

Edited July 26, 2015 by AttackTurtle

[jeansheridan]

 

TA: Hannibal's new haircut needs to go. When Hannibal Lecter is saying "I am not insane" and I am having Sheldon Cooper flashes, you know you did something wrong with his hair.

Oh I liked it.  Mads can rock almost any look.  I was a bit bummed that Will didn't look more different--buzzed hair or a full beard.  Just ...something different.  If they couldn't send him to Florida to get a tan (that's a book reference--Will lives in Florida at the beginning of Red Dragon), then change up his look a bit please so we know how far he's come.  Or maybe he hasn't come far? 

 

See, this is why I need to find out how he convinced Molly (or Molly convinced him) that he was husband/father material.  Because Will at the end of the last ep wasn't much good for anyone but maybe his dogs.  And I am of the opinion that his time with Molly is critical to his ability to survive Hannibal again.  I think he truly needed a few years of human connection and a normal relationship to give him some armor.  Because I believe in that corny idea that having healthy human connections and love give you strength to fight evil like Hannibal.  I think it's all the Ray Bradbury I read as a kid.  Joy can beat darkness.  And I believe Fuller is a secret optimist.  I'm not sure about Harris.  I think he's too in love with Hannibal to let a traditional good guy triumph over him. 

 

So the fact that Molly is extraordinarily normal and offers Will a very stable  and warm home is important.  I really want to see that, but I'm not sure how that happens unless Will goes home during one of the Red Dragon's down periods. 

 

Richard Armitage truly has the most delightful voice.  It's a bit of shame he doesn't get to use it. 

[Tippi Blevins]

I think Hannibal's envelope was in a larger, unmarked envelope, so I'd guess it was delivered to Will by some official go-between. 

 

It was a real jerk move by Jack showing the pictures to Molly, especially after Will said to keep them out of sight. 

[raven]

 

Seriously, when you just pulled a man back from his peaceful life to get into a serial-killer's mind for you again, especially when the last time you did that it almost destroyed him emotionally and physically, the least you can do it not be condescending to him and treat him like a "crazy dog person"...

Ugh, that pissed me off.  Shut up, Jack.

 

Without a line of dialogue Richard Armitage was fascinating.  With a great ass I might add.  Still I had to chuckle when he was flexing in front of the painting; he can't see himself flexing, sooo ?  It was a great scene for a viewer though. 

 

I love Hugh Dancy here.  Every scene he has to change expression just a little and he kills it every time.  On the porch with Jack, then walking through the crime scene.  Especially the latter, trying to be professionally observant but obviously disturbed by it, then he closes his eyes and immerses himself and it all changes. 

"This is my design".  I think he's fantastic. 

 

Thank you show for bringing back Price and Zeller.  This show benefits from those light touches, as much as you can have them during an examination of a dead body.  I do like watching them work at it, how clinically they approach it; which I guess you would have to do.

 

 

And I am of the opinion that his time with Molly is critical to his ability to survive Hannibal again.  I think he truly needed a few years of human connection and a normal relationship to give him some armor.  Because I believe in that corny idea that having healthy human connections and love give you strength to fight evil like Hannibal.  I think it's all the Ray Bradbury I read as a kid.  Joy can beat darkness.

 

ITA though I'm not sure this show is the one to portray that kind of positivity.  As far as Molly, anyone who likes having that many dogs around is OK by me.  The show was smart to show them holding each other, physically close, to reinforce for us their bond.  I want Will to go back to a stable, happy home life.  I don't need to see how he got one, I think once he set his mind and body apart from Hannibal he started healing and I wouldn't be surprised that it happened pretty quickly once he was calm and determined.  Compare him to Alana, who has healed physically but still keeps up with Hannibal.  Not healthy for her IMO, in any way.  She'll never be past it like Will is (or was).

 

I'm all alone in my little corner as not being interested in Hannibal's mind palace.  He's only interesting to me when paired with Will.  Glad we'll have more of that coming up.

Edited July 26, 2015 by raven

[ketchuplover]

the cell is real. so let it be posted. so let it be true.

[MisterGlass]

I thought Jack was joking with Will a little bit over the dog, trying to rebuild some rapport.  He knows Will would worry about the dog, and Will knows he knows.  It kind of fed back into Will pretending that Molly was the one who was soft-hearted about strays at dinner.  I didn't think it was mean spirited.

 

Pulling out family photos on the other hand was definitely a jerk move.  But that's Jack.  He is driven to prevent the next set of killings and he doesn't care about the process, or the tools he uses, just the outcome.

 

I do hope we get a brief flashback about Will and Molly's time together.  I also like that she seems more or less normal.  I can understand her giving her assent to Will going on the grounds she stated - if he doesn't go, he will hate himself later.  Right now she thinks that will be more toxic than anything he sees in this work.  She doesn't seem to know what he sees when he closes his eyes at night.  And I'm sure Will hides it from her with every fiber of his being.  I won't say he has a person suit, but I think he has strong barriers between the different acts of his life.

 

 

I doubt anyone has died at Hannibal's hands in the three years he's been imprisoned. For one thing, he and Alana discuss his dozen, or baker's dozen, of murder convictions. Surely it would come up if he'd killed someone in the asylum.

I think Hannibal probably went to jail before the asylum, and something happened there that convinced them that specialized treatment was needed.  While he may have had a dozen or thirteen convictions, there are many more skeletons in his closet.  I've been thinking about the size of the cell, and I wonder if it is because he is not allowed any recreation time in other locations.  If this cell is his whole world, and if they do not want him to have any opportunity of influencing other prisoners, it may make sense to keep him in this corner.

 

I gathered that Frederick wrote a book on Hannibal and as with Abel he stretched the facts to fit his theories.  Hannibal plans to refute his conclusions in a journal article.  Hannibal's communications with the outside world are probably a guaranteed privilege.  They may have the authority to inspect his correspondence, but unless it is illegal or threatening there may be little he can do.  To what extent Frederick, Alana, Jack, and Will lied in the trial process, I don't know.  The fact is that all of them were compromised.  Hannibal may have started the deception and they followed his lead to keep the story straight.  Certainly that truth about Abigail, Bedelia, and Mason will always be suppressed. 

 

I would love to see the person who agreed to be Hannibal's lawyer. 

[Pixel]

I've been thinking about the size of the cell, and I wonder if it is because he is not allowed any recreation time in other locations.  If this cell is his whole world, and if they do not want him to have any opportunity of influencing other prisoners, it may make sense to keep him in this corner.

 

I thought the size and decor in his cell, and his dinner party with Chilton were just representations of his mind mansion - that the conversations and meetings we were seeing were real, but the environment we saw him conducting these meetings in were a mix of that reality and the constructs of his mind.