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A case of the Mondays: vent your work spleen here

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3 hours ago, Hero said:

This volunteer is a little odd. My gut tells me not to trust her. 

Go with your gut.  Assume the worst.  She could be looking to trip you up and take your paying job.  

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It's been a stressful couple of weeks. One area's leadership is a bear to work with (well known) and is doing everything they can to work against me instead of with me. Last night they sent an email that a local location of a national account would no longer order through the system they are supposed to because our competition is next door. This customer is serviced by a branch that was just told to stop entering orders manually, the corporate HQ of this customer requires them to use a procurement system. The national account manager is going to handle it with that company's corporate office, it's just one of many ways this area's leadership doesn't play well with anyone. If this leader had been following the national contract to start with none of this would be an issue.

So yesterday in a firestorm of after-hour emails I accidentally included a different national account manager on my response, asking him to reach out ASAP. I am working with this manager on another account in the same area. Thankfully he figured I must have sent it by mistake. Today he and I spoke and he said he was with a high ranking member of my management team (dotted line up the chain) and told him how awesome I am, how I am probably really upsetting some areas leadership (see above) but it's all for a good cause and will make us more money in the end. And then the account manager showed the other guy the email and said "look at the bullshit she has to deal with. [Problematic manager] just thinks he can bypass national agreements because the competition is next door.

Edited by theredhead77
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I'm almost afraid to type this out, but y'all, I got a job! It's the one I wanted, it's more money and a shorter commute than the job from hell I previously had, and the people seem fantastic. I should get the offer letter later today, but the recruiter already called me this morning with the news.

It's funny because I got an email from the hiring manager at the company this morning saying they had an internal candidate come forward yesterday to ask to interview for the position and would I mind waiting until they did that interview (as a company policy, they automatically interview any internal candidates that qualify)? I said no problem, totally understood, and less than 10 minutes later my recruiter was calling saying the hiring manager changed her mind immediately after sending me the email, they wanted me no matter what. Now it sounds like they are creating a position for the internal candidate and she will report up to me.  I'm so excited but I'm not telling anyone (except here, lol) until I have the offer letter in hand.

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2 minutes ago, emma675 said:

I'm almost afraid to type this out, but y'all, I got a job! It's the one I wanted, it's more money and a shorter commute than the job from hell I previously had, and the people seem fantastic. I should get the offer letter later today, but the recruiter already called me this morning with the news.

It's funny because I got an email from the hiring manager at the company this morning saying they had an internal candidate come forward yesterday to ask to interview for the position and would I mind waiting until they did that interview (as a company policy, they automatically interview any internal candidates that qualify)? I said no problem, totally understood, and less than 10 minutes later my recruiter was calling saying the hiring manager changed her mind immediately after sending me the email, they wanted me no matter what. Now it sounds like they are creating a position for the internal candidate and she will report up to me.  I'm so excited but I'm not telling anyone (except here, lol) until I have the offer letter in hand.

Congratulations on winning a new job offer!

It really is a wonderful feeling being told you've succeeded in all the tests and interviews to reach the job you've wanted to excel at, as well as offering more money and a shorter commute.

Of course its always a bit nerve-racking leading up to your first day. It's a bit like your first day at school: you don't know anyone, don't know where to go, or what the protocols are. But once you've got your first day out of the way everything seems to slide into place.

Good luck!

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4 hours ago, emma675 said:

I'm almost afraid to type this out, but y'all, I got a job! It's the one I wanted, it's more money and a shorter commute than the job from hell I previously had, and the people seem fantastic. I should get the offer letter later today, but the recruiter already called me this morning with the news.

It's funny because I got an email from the hiring manager at the company this morning saying they had an internal candidate come forward yesterday to ask to interview for the position and would I mind waiting until they did that interview (as a company policy, they automatically interview any internal candidates that qualify)? I said no problem, totally understood, and less than 10 minutes later my recruiter was calling saying the hiring manager changed her mind immediately after sending me the email, they wanted me no matter what. Now it sounds like they are creating a position for the internal candidate and she will report up to me.  I'm so excited but I'm not telling anyone (except here, lol) until I have the offer letter in hand.

Congratulations, @emma675. You sound like me a couple of years ago after I'd gotten the phone call, but then it took a couple of days for the offer letter to arrive. I was paranoid that some last-minute glitch had occurred. Now I know it's just that the guy who had to send the offer letter is notoriously bad at responding to emails, and no doubt my actual manager had to chase him down to get him to do the letter. In your case, I hope the official offer letter comes today and you can feel that it's a done deal.

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I just got the official offer letter and now the background and reference check begins! I don't know why, but I always get so nervous about this part. Even though I know my references really well and have spoken with them today about things, and even though I know I've never been arrested and have great credit, I always fear the checks! I won't feel comfortable and won't tell anyone about this job until everything is approved and I have an official start date.

Why are jobs so stressful, even when you want them?? ;-)

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31 minutes ago, emma675 said:

just got the official offer letter and now the background and reference check begins! I don't know why, but I always get so nervous about this part.

Congratulations! I hope you hid the bodies well! :D

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Y'all crack me up! 

It's too bad we can't all start some kind of business together, I think we'd get along well. We already know the crap we all put up with and everyone's dirty little work secrets.

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7 hours ago, emma675 said:

Y'all crack me up! 

It's too bad we can't all start some kind of business together, I think we'd get along well. We already know the crap we all put up with and everyone's dirty little work secrets.

I'll be your IT girl!

(actually, talking of dirty little work secrets. The company I used to work for last year, had some pervy managers, most of whom would browse "adult" sites on company computers after hours. Usually there is a company policy stating that such activities are strictly forbidden, and nearly all of the company IT equipment has customised firewalls that we implemented blocking users from browsing such sites. But this "blocking" didn't apply to managers and directors because it was determined they would be far more responsible! But it turns out quite a few of them had some really "out there" fetishes when we checked their log files. And the worst thing is that when we reported this to our boss he told us to turn a blind eye and not create a fuss! The double-standards at that place were disgusting) 

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5 hours ago, Zola said:

I'll be your IT girl!

(actually, talking of dirty little work secrets. The company I used to work for last year, had some pervy managers, most of whom would browse "adult" sites on company computers after hours. Usually there is a company policy stating that such activities are strictly forbidden, and nearly all of the company IT equipment has customised firewalls that we implemented blocking users from browsing such sites. But this "blocking" didn't apply to managers and directors because it was determined they would be far more responsible! But it turns out quite a few of them had some really "out there" fetishes when we checked their log files. And the worst thing is that when we reported this to our boss he told us to turn a blind eye and not create a fuss! The double-standards at that place were disgusting) 

Document privately what you are turning a blind eye to (preferably somewhere that a co-worker can’t erase, like a file on a company computer). It will be good to have if one of the managers decides to act out on any of their fantasies on an unwilling subordinate. We have seen a lot of this crap in the news so I’m just saying...

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There was some weather here yesterday and overnight.  Today there are five people in our 17-person office (possibly six, but #6 said he was coming at noon and I haven't seen him yet).  Unfortunately, #5 was the Vice Dean, which means that #4's proclamation as senior member of the office that any early departures today would be just fine is null and void.  DRAT.  Especially since I haven't had anything useful to do since 9:30.

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11 hours ago, Zola said:

(actually, talking of dirty little work secrets. The company I used to work for last year, had some pervy managers, most of whom would browse "adult" sites on company computers after hours. Usually there is a company policy stating that such activities are strictly forbidden, and nearly all of the company IT equipment has customised firewalls that we implemented blocking users from browsing such sites. But this "blocking" didn't apply to managers and directors because it was determined they would be far more responsible! But it turns out quite a few of them had some really "out there" fetishes when we checked their log files. And the worst thing is that when we reported this to our boss he told us to turn a blind eye and not create a fuss! The double-standards at that place were disgusting) 

I worked at a large agency where the IT person asked me about a colleague - one who did very little actual work, and everyone knew it.  The IT person said that this person was using the company server to do her outside job - private coaching for a volleyball team.  She had team rosters, photos, t-shirt designs, announcements, etc.   She thought she was saving to her hard drive, but stupidly, she saved it all on the agency network.  The IT person asked me - does this have anything at all to do with her job?  I sad no. She was pissed, and deleted all of it.   It took a few days before the worker came to her and asked if it was possible to recover files she "lost" on the computer.   The answer from IT was to hand her a copy of the policy about storing non-agency stuff on the network.   

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I literally just received this email from an account manager:

 

Subject: FWD: [insert UPS tracking number]
Body: TRH, customer still hasn't received the order we talked about last week.

 

Me: All: the UPS website shows the tracking number in the subject line is scheduled to be delivered by EoB tomorrow.

 

Like seriously, how  lazy do you have to be to not track your own package on the UPS website? You HAVE THE TRACKING NUMBER

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Now I'm all paranoid that somehow that email is going to come back to bite-me. It was very curt but not rude. Like OMG, use the tracking number. Do you contact Amazon when trying to find your Prime deliveries or use the tracking number?

I mean the original email said it shipped on X date from X location and the UPS Tracking is [tracking]. We set up our customers to be so needy instead of self-sufficient yet our sales team wonders why they are being run ragged and have so many high maintenance customers.

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10 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Now I'm all paranoid that somehow that email is going to come back to bite-me. It was very curt but not rude. Like OMG, use the tracking number. Do you contact Amazon when trying to find your Prime deliveries or use the tracking number?

I mean the original email said it shipped on X date from X location and the UPS Tracking is [tracking]. We set up our customers to be so needy instead of self-sufficient yet our sales team wonders why they are being run ragged and have so many high maintenance customers.

As someone who naturally defaults to curt, I have been known to say something like this - "I just re-read my latest note to you, and I see that it reads a little grouchy.  That wasn't my intention!"

You and I know that's a damn lie, and your original point is still made, but it sort of covers your ass just in case, lol.

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Today is a mandatory furlough day for my bargaining unit. I have to take 2 more before the end of June but I get to pick them. What a privilege. On those 2 days, my email and the sign on my office will say "I'm not here to help you today because the State of Connecticut has budget-cut your education." It would say that today but I already set the auto-reply and changing it now would mean going into my work email, so no. They've already been taking the money out of our paychecks and will continue until July.

And so I had the car emissions checked and am doing nothing the rest of the day but watching the birds swarm the feeders. It is amazing how much seed they get through in a morning.

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20 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

I literally just received this email from an account manager:

 

Subject: FWD: [insert UPS tracking number]
Body: TRH, customer still hasn't received the order we talked about last week.

 

Me: All: the UPS website shows the tracking number in the subject line is scheduled to be delivered by EoB tomorrow.

 

Like seriously, how  lazy do you have to be to not track your own package on the UPS website? You HAVE THE TRACKING NUMBER

 

18 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Now I'm all paranoid that somehow that email is going to come back to bite-me. It was very curt but not rude. Like OMG, use the tracking number. Do you contact Amazon when trying to find your Prime deliveries or use the tracking number?

I mean the original email said it shipped on X date from X location and the UPS Tracking is [tracking]. We set up our customers to be so needy instead of self-sufficient yet our sales team wonders why they are being run ragged and have so many high maintenance customers.

Oh JEEBUSFUCKINGCHRISTONAFUCKINGCRACKER!

I'm not middle management, a leader or a supervisor, but I send out emails like you did ALL THE TIME, as well as the one  you sent last week, and you got told you were a "meanie" and NO ONE ever reacted to my emails like the people have to yours! I'm talking Law partners, CEOs, CFO's General Counsels!

What a bunch of lazy babies.

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I didn't get feedback from my email above, it was just my anxiety talking to my brain.

Today turned out to be a really good day - I saw an extra deposit in my checking account, thought it was a mistake, turns out it was our annual bonus. Then I had my review where I averaged a 4 out (scale of 1-5). I got a 2 (room for improvement) on communication due to communications with some internal departments, and it was more of a 'hey, if you want to move up to a director level you're going to want to fine-tune your wording' sort of way. After our chat he bumped it to a 3 (meets expectations). He acknowledged all the work I'm doing that is way beyond my scope and both my regional President and the bigger division president are bragging about how awesome I am. He then asked how I'd feel about having 3 people reporting to me and me continuing to do what I'm doing (building up the back-end) vs what he wants me to do (be in the field more). 

Hopefully all this means more money will be coming soon.

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There is sooo much drama at work. It saddens me that people who are 30,40, 50 years older than me can act so juvenile.

I noticed that it is mostly the women at work who act this way. There is some sort of power struggle happening and it's ridiculous.

It makes me sad because these women are in high ranking positions at the office and acting the way that they are, it's embarrassing.

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10 minutes ago, Hero said:

There is sooo much drama at work. It saddens me that people who are 30,40, 50 years older than me can act so juvenile.

Just because someone is older than you doesn't make them necessarily more mature than you. Work is just paid high school for adults.

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13 hours ago, Hero said:

There is sooo much drama at work. It saddens me that people who are 30,40, 50 years older than me can act so juvenile.

I noticed that it is mostly the women at work who act this way. There is some sort of power struggle happening and it's ridiculous.

Some people grower old, not up.

Is it a predominantly female staff or females vying for the same spot?

Because men can be just as bad - it often gets interpreted differently although a lot of behaviors are thisclose.

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8 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

Because men can be just as bad - it often gets interpreted differently although a lot of behaviors are thisclose.

If we're going to compare men and women in broad terms, it's absolutely about how the behaviors are interpreted. Generally speaking, men compete/fight with men differently than the way women compete/fight with women. 

Competing for power is hardly uncommon at work or socially or politically. Flip the setting and the people fighting, and the same method of fighting can go from being interpreted as acceptable to unacceptable. 

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I got an email this morning, I've passed the background check (the bodies stayed hidden!) and my start date is April 2nd. Woo hoo, I will have decent health insurance again! And a paycheck, too, which is nice.

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14 minutes ago, emma675 said:

I got an email this morning, I've passed the background check (the bodies stayed hidden!) and my start date is April 2nd. Woo hoo, I will have decent health insurance again! And a paycheck, too, which is nice.

Well done Emma!

Now what I think you should do next is buy is all a round of drinks to celebrate. Mine's a Black Vad!

Cheers, and congrats!

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Has anyone else applied a job online and been asked to submit photos after your phone screen. Seems like a way to by pass racial or age discrimination. Jmho

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2 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

Has anyone else applied a job online and been asked to submit photos after your phone screen. Seems like a way to by pass racial or age discrimination. Jmho

No and if you're not applying to be a model I'd do a little digging and see if this is par for the course or if perhaps the recruiter is pervy and report them accordingly.

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1 hour ago, emma675 said:

Oooh, what's a Black Vad, Zola?

It's a rather sexy cocktail that I first sampled last Christmas. Rather an acquired taste, but certainly hits the spot in a very gentle way

 

1 oz. Samogon, 1 oz. Black Strap Rum, 1 oz. lime juice, freshly squeezed, .75 oz. Falernum Liqueur, 1 dash Angostura Bitters

Instructions:

Combine in a cocktail shaker and stir. Strain into a highball glass over crushed ice. Garnish with mint or rosemary.

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4 minutes ago, Zola said:

It's a rather sexy cocktail that I first sampled last Christmas. Rather an acquired taste, but certainly hits the spot in a very gentle way

 

1 oz. Samogon, 1 oz. Black Strap Rum, 1 oz. lime juice, freshly squeezed, .75 oz. Falernum Liqueur, 1 dash Angostura Bitters

Instructions:

Combine in a cocktail shaker and stir. Strain into a highball glass over crushed ice. Garnish with mint or rosemary.

Boy have I gotten old. I haven’t even heard of some of those liquors! Is it sweet or sour? Can you describe the acquired taste? I’m curious. 

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Congratulations, @emma675! I'm trying not to feel jealous!

No movement from either that suckyass recruiter who replaced my previous recruiter at my current assignment. Nor has the company told my suckyass recruiter they want to make me permanent. Though the latter acts as if I am and treats me as if I am. I'm not rocking the boat, so staying silent, since I already told the company I am interested in making this gig permanent.  

In the meantime, I've been applying, applying, applying. Managed to get three telephone screen interviews--one which decided to go with another candidate; the second, I had two calls, told I was still in the mix, but wouldn't know for two weeks whether the firm was going forward. It's been three weeks now. I've already told them of my interest of wanting to work there, and their firm is a firm I've always wanted to work; had one call last week, which went well, but now the HR manager has to decide if he wants to move forward with me.

I'm trying not to get discouraged, but damned if I don't fall into the pitymewell. Like, I've had the worst luck since the cancer diagnosis and treatment; that's not bad enough, but I feel like the rabbit, in the carrot and stick game. One positive--got a call from an agency who I haven't worked with for a long time, and this one I had a sit down with, and I left with positive feelings. I started to get worried when I didn't hear back from her by the end of last week, but she emailed me this morning, apologized for not calling back. And unfortunately the one opening I applied for, they want a paralegal who has substantive employment law experience. Which, I lack. I have complex commercial litigation, financial services, criminal, civil, legislative, government investigations, bid protests, contracts, but alas, no emloyment, immigration, or IP! Durnit.

I'm hoping something will give soon.

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44 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

Has anyone else applied a job online and been asked to submit photos after your phone screen. Seems like a way to by pass racial or age discrimination. Jmho

That's not normal. Hard pass on them.

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45 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

Has anyone else applied a job online and been asked to submit photos after your phone screen. Seems like a way to by pass racial or age discrimination. Jmho

Never.

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Yes. Btw it's a woman around my age and financial company. I get the vibe they want an attractive white person basically. 

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Petunia13, I did some quick googling and it seems to be illegal for a company to ask for a photo during an interview process, unless the company is something like a casting agency or a modeling agency. There seem to be several EEOC laws against it.

SuprSuprElevated, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. Job hunting sucks.

GHScorpiosRule, hang in there. I've been searching and applying for jobs since September. It's a long, grueling process and it's totally draining.

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2 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

Has anyone else applied a job online and been asked to submit photos after your phone screen. Seems like a way to by pass racial or age discrimination. Jmho

Ooh, I don't like that at all.  Probably not age discrimination, because frankly, your work history will probably pretty much reveal the ballpark of your age.  Racial - possibly.  I don't know what kind of job this was, or if physical attributes could be an expected focus, but I would be concerned about darker, more untoward, creepy things.

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Yeah, asking for a photo seems to be odd. They should just stalk prospective employees on social media like everybody else does. I would probably pass on a company who asked for a picture unless it was a really good opportunity, at which point I would ask what the point of a photo was before continuing. Maybe there is a legitimate reason. I'm not sure what that would be, but I'd be willing to hear them out before completely dropping out of consideration.

As for whether it is illegal, employment laws do protect people from discrimination for race, age, gender, ethnicity, and disability, but there really isn't much saying that a company can't choose a candidate based on looks. It's probably better policy to pick people based on qualifications over looks if you want your company to be successful, but as long as the looks based decision doesn't cross over into race, age or the others, it's not illegal. 

The idea of how somebody appears being relevant to a financial services company reminds me of the case study I read about Commerce Bank a few years ago:

Commerce Bank built a great reputation for quality customer service. It was like the only bank where customers actually didn't mind going there to do business. One of the ways Commerce Bank achieved this was during the hiring process. The interviewers could tell within 15 seconds of an interview if the candidate would be a good fit. They simply determined if the person's resting expression was a smile. Most people have a neutral or negative expression at rest. Commerce Bank hired the smiley people. And they even went so far as to give their employees cards to hand out to people they ran into outside of the bank who gave them quality customer service. They used their smiley people to go on the hunt for more smiley people. Had a great tool booth operator or waiter? Give them a card telling them that Commerce Bank was hiring. The ONLY place they were not supposed to recruit from was other financial services companies because it was too difficult to reprogram the negativity out of them. 

Looks based hiring. Needless to say, nobody ever gave me a Commerce Bank recruiting card.

Edited by JTMacc99
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7 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

... Probably not age discrimination, because frankly, your work history will probably pretty much reveal the ballpark of your age. 

That's why conventional wisdom now is that if you're over 40, for your resume don't include work history that's more than 10 years old. I personally include the last 15 years, but when I teach a course that includes writing a resume, I do advise students that once they're past 40, and definitely if they are 50+, to remove anything on their resume that would indicate they've been in the workforce that long. Your resume does not have to include every single job you've ever had. The hiring company may well ask for your complete work history as part of their formal application, but it's the resume that most hiring managers will be reviewing.  The rationale behind the 10 years rule is that any job you've had more than 10 years ago is probably not relevant to the job you are currently seeking. I don't entirely agree with that thinking, but I do feel that it's better not to indicate your age if you are nearing the point where age discrimination would kick in. 

@Petunia13,  as for the financial services company asking for a photo, that's very weird. I work for a very large financial services company, and I can't think of many legitimate reasons to ask for a photo. If you were being considered for some type of PR or corporate communications position that required you to interact with the media, I could maybe see it that they wanted to make sure you have a professional appearance, but they'd be more likely to ask you for a video interview to see how you come across in that type of setting. Asking for a photo? To me that just seems like you guessed, that the hiring manager has a specific type in mind, whether it's for race, attractiveness, age, or something else, or some combination of those characteristics.

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2 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

@BookWoman56 I've heard that for years. I've also heard to never include the year you graduated from college on your resume.

That's good advice, which again I pass on to my students, who typically range from very early 20s to late 50s or so. The same principle applies somewhat to very young job applicants. Don't go out of your way to highlight that you're barely 21. The lack of extensive work experience will obviously indicate that the person is probably  young, but the applicant could also have spent a few years as a SAH parent, with minimal paid work experience. It's less common now than it used to be, but there are also people who get married and stay out of the workforce for 20 years or so before a divorce or some other major life event pushes them back into work, and those people will have very limited paid work experience. The point is not to give away that you are extremely young or in my case, that you're older than dirt.

I do get some pushback occasionally when I tell students to omit any mention of religious affiliation from their resume, unless they're applying for a job that requires it. It's funny to some extent, because they immediately recognize that tagging yourself as a Democrat or Republican or Independent could cause the hiring manager to have a bias against  you, but don't understand that stating you attend a Catholic church versus a Protestant church might also arouse bias, and are then mildly surprised that someone might consider stating that he/she attends a temple or a mosque or is active in an atheist organization.  What I typically hear from them is "But church is such a big part of my life, so how can I leave it out?" That's when I have to explain that a resume is not intended to present every single aspect of your life. It's your education, work experience, and skill set, not a list of your social activities. Yes, if you actively volunteer in some worthy cause, it's okay to list it, but most hiring managers are going to care more about whether you have the skill set to do the job than about which charitable organizations you volunteer for. Okay, I will now climb back down from my "Stuff not to put on your resume" soapbox.

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36 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

I will now climb back down from my "Stuff not to put on your resume" soapbox.

Don't! You have valuable information that others need to hear / read. If not for them, for someone else in their life job hunting. I think at this time we all know someone (teen, recent grad or victim of a layoff) who is job hunting.

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I couldn't imagine in a million years, thinking it wise to include religious affiliation on a resume', unless I was applying to a sympathetic, faith-based organization.  Still.

Edited by SuprSuprElevated
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I can't imagine listing what church I attend on a resume. The only reasons I can think of to list a church is if I worked at one (as a secretary or treasurer or nursery worker or custodian, etc.) or if I don't have an extensive paid job resume and did a lot of serious volunteer work with skills that would transfer to whatever paid position I'm applying for. I did have a pastor who left ministry and became a teacher through alternative certification. I imagine he listed the church on his resume, but it's a small town.  It's not like people didn't know.

And even in those two situations (well, mostly the first), you didn't necessarily attend the church.

Edited by auntlada
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