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Characters You've Changed Your Mind About

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Mitchum.

 

First glance, follow the narrative...seems like a dick.

 

Look at him closer, listen to words, take at face value...I actually don't think he is the bad guy.  What he says makes sense (about Rory, about Logan going to London, etc).

 

I actually agree with a lot of what he says.

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First one who comes to mind for me is Logan.  First time I watched the series, I was fully a member of Team Dean (I like to pretend the affair never happened).  I have always hated Jess and wasn't a fan of Logan's, either.  However, as I have watched more and more, I like Logan a lot more.  I don't like spoiled brat Rory but I like that Logan pushed Rory to learn who she was instead of telling her who she was like I feel many other people in her life did. I think he grew and matured a lot through the series.

Paris is another who comes to mind.  I think that I was so bothered by her in the first few seasons that I wasn't able to look past that to who she became. Now, don't get me wrong.  She had some craptastic moments in college like when she was editor of the paper. However, she was always driven and, even when faced with a setback, managed to get back on her feet quickly due to her own tenacity.  I really admire her ability to evaluate who she is, who she wants to be, and how to go about merging those two.  Seeing who she became in the revival just reinforced that for me.

And, like the poster above me, Mitchum.  Pretty much everything stan4 posted. Mitchum might have come across as a dick, but CLEARLY he wasn't wrong and, while quite blunt, he was never outright cruel.

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Mitchum was right on the surface but he was a dick. Knowing Shiva went all Shiva and checked into a Spa and that Honor was going to take some time to get home from her honeymoon,  Mitchum refused to go see critically injured Logan in the Hospital. I get being angry at him for engaging in risky behaviors such as base jumping but still. If Rory didn't push Mitchum's buttons into going, Logan would only have the people Mitchum and/or the family wanted out of Logan's life. 

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On 5/1/2018 at 11:10 AM, BlancheDevoreaux said:

And, like the poster above me, Mitchum.  Pretty much everything stan4 posted. Mitchum might have come across as a dick, but CLEARLY he wasn't wrong and, while quite blunt, he was never outright cruel.

Using the revival, he was completely right. Rory wasn't suited for Journalism as she could imagine going through the struggle and hard work to get there. She was just so used to everything being handed to her. I'm sadly putting Rory on this list.  On rewatches, I still enjoy the book nerd from the earlier seasons. I didn't mind that she rebelled a bit in college as this wasn't that out of the normal. It's that she never really "grew out of it".  And even worse because of the revival, I am finding myself noticing how selfish and condescending Rory & Loreali are to other people. It's like they feel they are so much better than everyone else. I'm not sure why I never noticed this before watching the revival.

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Emily....when i was in college..i thought Emily was too cold, etc.  But as an adult, I think Emily was a saint putting up with Lorelei as a daughter.

Louise and Madeleine..I thought were space cadets and airheads back in the past...but now I see that both are them are enjoying life and I often think if they looked back at their life at Chilton..that both wouldn't have regrets.

Luke and Lorelei..worst coupling ever.

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7 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Emily....when i was in college..i thought Emily was too cold, etc.  But as an adult, I think Emily was a saint putting up with Lorelei as a daughter.

Louise and Madeleine..I thought were space cadets and airheads back in the past...but now I see that both are them are enjoying life and I often think if they looked back at their life at Chilton..that both wouldn't have regrets.

Luke and Lorelei..worst coupling ever.

I was thinking at first that I agreed with everything but the alst part, because I love Luke. But, then I kind of realized that I can love Luke and still not think he's a good match with Lorelai.  Sometimes I can't make up my mind about them.  On the one hand, they don't have much in common and their personalities kind of clash.  But, on the other hand, Luke grounds her a bit, while Lorelai brings out his more fun-loving side, so they can be good for each other.

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On 5/22/2018 at 6:15 AM, Katy M said:

I was thinking at first that I agreed with everything but the alst part, because I love Luke. But, then I kind of realized that I can love Luke and still not think he's a good match with Lorelai.  Sometimes I can't make up my mind about them.  On the one hand, they don't have much in common and their personalities kind of clash.  But, on the other hand, Luke grounds her a bit, while Lorelai brings out his more fun-loving side, so they can be good for each other.

This probably belongs under Unpopular Opinions or Guys They Love, but I always thought Jason was the best fit for Lorelai.  He was smart, worldly, educated, kept up with the banter, up for hijinks, similarly quirkly, liked some same hobbies, cooked and fed her, loved coffee, shared background, etc.  I get that they broke up bc of the suing thing, but it seemed very abrupt and weird.

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On 5/22/2018 at 6:15 AM, Katy M said:

I was thinking at first that I agreed with everything but the alst part, because I love Luke. But, then I kind of realized that I can love Luke and still not think he's a good match with Lorelai.  Sometimes I can't make up my mind about them.  On the one hand, they don't have much in common and their personalities kind of clash.  But, on the other hand, Luke grounds her a bit, while Lorelai brings out his more fun-loving side, so they can be good for each other.

I think, for the most part, Luke is a fun character. BUT I also think that there was a great build up to his and Lorelai's relationship and then the writers made a disaster of it. If Lorelai want being immature, Luke was being insecure. It was just a disaster. 

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33 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I think, for the most part, Luke is a fun character. BUT I also think that there was a great build up to his and Lorelai's relationship and then the writers made a disaster of it. If Lorelai want being immature, Luke was being insecure. It was just a disaster. 

Amen. Add to that petulant ASP/DP abandoning the show, and new showrunner coming in for S7, it all went off the rails.

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On 4.6.2018 at 10:36 PM, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I think, for the most part, Luke is a fun character.

I think the problem is that there is no consistency to Luke's character. He was always what ASP needed him to be for the plot. In S1 he was clearly well informed re: environmental issues (golf courses and chemicals), he was occasionally well read (Tolstoy) when needed, he's seen movies (he can make and get references), he wasn't adverse to get out more and do stuff (dinners/Broadway/cruise with Nicole), he knew how to dress when going to the bank or ritzy functions and he can quip/rant.

And then there is the version of Luke that wears flannel and cap for golf, can't think of a good author (Tolstoy you idiot), hasn't seen a movie since they started talking in them, wears jeans to dinner with Emily, the overly grumpy to the point of mean persona, he's such a hermit he has no friends (despite Maisy and Buddy and others he has mentioned) etc.

 

As to the topic.

Christopher: Didn't like him at first and then hated him with the fire of a 1000 suns.

Paris: Annoying at first but I appreciated her a lot later (and then retroactively).

Rory: Ok in high school but once that's over, a total bore and in need of some B-slaps.

Lorelai: Loved her when I was younger. But once I became an adult, increasingly hard to like and often actually dislike her.

Mitchum: Thought he was an ass just because he could be. Then realized he was just being a business man, telling uncomfortable truths that would have done some people good to take to heart.

Edited by Smad
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13 minutes ago, Smad said:

wears jeans to dinner with Emily,

I'd probably do that just to bug her.

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5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I'd probably do that just to bug her.

Luke wouldn't. He has more class than all the Gilmores combined.

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1 hour ago, Smad said:

Luke wouldn't. He has more class than all the Gilmores combined.

I wouldn't do that to a nice older (or even younger) lady who wanted to hold on to tradition and decorum and all that.  I might do it to someone I feel to be horribly snobbish (such as Emily).

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7 hours ago, Smad said:

Luke wouldn't. He has more class than all the Gilmores combined.

He wore jeans the first time he had dinner at the Gilmores. Look up You Jump, I Jump Jack.

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15 minutes ago, CheeseBurgh said:

He wore jeans the first time he had dinner at the Gilmores. Look up You Jump, I Jump Jack.

If you had read a little further up, I literally mentioned that. And that whole jeans to dinner thing was a bunch of BS to show class differences (as to why E/R should be against Luke) and it was totally OOC for Luke. In his dealings with anyone named Gilmore, he was way classier than them.

Edited by Smad
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7 minutes ago, Smad said:

If you had read a little further up, I literally mentioned that. And that whole jeans to dinner thing was a bunch of BS to show class differences (as to why E/R should be against Luke) and it was totally OOC for Luke. In his dealings with anyone named Gilmore, he was way classier than them.

I agree it was OOC for Luke. He knew when he needed to dress up and when he didn't. There's no way he wouldn't have wore something else to Friday Night dinner. 

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I've held on to most of my opinions (you can find many of them in the "unpopular opinions" thread. So, my list is very short. 

TJ. I wasn't a fan of his throughout the show's original run. But, on one of my many rewatches I noticed that he wasn't all bad. He was never so rigid or set in his ways that he took any of the dismissiveness thrown at him by Lorelai, Luke, or Jess seriously. He had a good sense of humor when dealing with things that he knew nothing about and was always able to find a positive spin on things. But, I think the real reason I changed my mind about him happened when he said that Lorelai and Luke should NOT get back together. I had an "AMEN" moment there. Not because I didn't want them together, but because they were so bad at being a couple. TJ was right, there was always some kind of crazy drama happening whenever Luke and Lorelai were together. Not to say that I love TJ or anything. He and Liz's sense of entitlement when it came to Luke drove me crazy. But it always seemed like TJ was down for whatever as long as Liz was happy. 

 

One small thing. I never liked Logan during his original run or during the revival. But, he did win me over for half a second when he came to the paper to pick Rory up for their date, and the paper is melting down. When he looked at her and said, "You really do only like me for my looks" that was the only time he got a laugh out of me that wasn't one of total derision. I also really liked when he pointed out to Rory that she was also a trust fund kid. 

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21 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

One small thing. I never liked Logan during his original run or during the revival. But, he did win me over for half a second when he came to the paper to pick Rory up for their date, and the paper is melting down. When he looked at her and said, "You really do only like me for my looks" that was the only time he got a laugh out of me that wasn't one of total derision. I also really liked when he pointed out to Rory that she was also a trust fund kid. 

I didn't really like Logan as a whole, but I can appreciate it when he points out truths to Rory.  That she also comes from a privileged world.  That it's wrong to like to Lucy about not knowing Marty.  

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38 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

But, [Logan] did win me over for half a second when he came to the paper to pick Rory up for their date, and the paper is melting down. When he looked at her and said, "You really do only like me for my looks" that was the only time he got a laugh out of me that wasn't one of total derision.

Ha!  I loved that line.  Logan grew on me after a while (until the Revival, but we won't talk about that) but that was one of his genuinely funny earlier moments.

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On 2/22/2018 at 7:48 AM, Katy M said:

They were on a break!  JK.  

I don't think it matters whether she was cheating or not, or whether Luke knew they were broken up or not.

1. Unless you are married, a breakup only needs the consent of one person.  LIke that Seinfeld episode of George's ridiculous girlfriend not accepting the breakup.  Um, well, you can't do that.

2. The remedy for cheating is to break up.  Lorelai had already done that.  And wasn't trying to get back with Luke after, and insisting that she didn't cheat because they were on a break.  The cheating (or not) is irrelevant, because they weren't together after that.  

I know this is an old discussion but I’m on a GG rewatch and I have to agree with this. In my mind, the first time I watched the end of S6 during its original run to now, I have always seen Lorelai sleeping with Chris as a way to solidify that breakup. She was so distraught and unhappy and just DONE with the situation in that moment that she needed something they couldn’t come back from. She knew they’d be able to repair things after their fight, and that would lead her right back to where she had been, pushed aside with Luke not really seeing her or her needs. She wanted something that they couldn’t move past. 

It wasn’t a good decision by any means but I don’t think it was her trying to comfort herself. It was cruel to Luke and Christopher but I’ve always understood emotionally what brought her there. 

Edited by racked
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1 hour ago, racked said:

I know this is an old discussion but I’m on a GG rewatch and I have to agree with this. In my mind, the first time I watched the end of S6 during its original run to now, I have always seen Lorelai sleeping with Chris as a way to solidify that breakup. She was so distraught and unhappy and just DONE with the situation in that moment that she needed something they couldn’t come back from. She knew they’d be able to repair thjnhns after their fight, and that would lead her right back to where she had been, pushed aside with Luke not really seeing her or her needs. She wanted something that they couldn’t move past. 

It wasn’t a good decision by any means but I don’t think it was her trying to comfort herself. It was cruel to Luke and Christopher but I’ve always understood emotionally what brought her there. 

She told Sookie she “needed” it to be over because it hurt too bad. That’s how the season 7 writers did with it anyway. I wonder what ASP plans were to handle it.

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59 minutes ago, FictionLover said:

She told Sookie she “needed” it to be over because it hurt too bad. That’s how the season 7 writers did with it anyway. I wonder what ASP plans were to handle it.

Given what ASP did to the characters in season 6 I'd be scared to know what she planned to do to them in season 7.

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1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Given what ASP did to the characters in season 6 I'd be scared to know what she planned to do to them in season 7.

Part of her negotiations I heard is that she knew how she was going to fix it. Not only what she did in 6...what about the revival!?!

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2 hours ago, FictionLover said:

Part of her negotiations I heard is that she knew how she was going to fix it. Not only what she did in 6...what about the revival!?!

That part is what annoys me. Part of the splitting ways with ASP was her own fault! She kept trying to hold out for a two year deal which no one would agree too. But instead of signing for one more year and just seeing what happened. Maybe many of the actors would change their minds who knows. She wouldn't budge from the two years. She could have had the last year but wouldn't. Of course she kept saying she would fix it. I hated the revival along with what she did in season six so I don't really trust her claim that she knew how she was going to fix it. 

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16 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Given what ASP did to the characters in season 6 I'd be scared to know what she planned to do to them in season 7.

Luke was going to burn down orphanages. Lorelai would become a professional puppy kicker.

These predictions are based on their trajectories from Season 6.

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16 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Part of the splitting ways with ASP was her own fault! She kept trying to hold out for a two year deal which no one would agree too. But instead of signing for one more year and just seeing what happened.

But that's leaving out the part where the network was sold and all of a she was working for people she had no history with.  The Palladinos were close to signing a development deal for a new series when the WB sold out.  It was just bad luck all around, for them and for us.  I wish the CW would have given them the 2 years.  It was one of their more popular shows and didn't do well with changing showrunners.  I always wanted to see how Amy would have fixed it.

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Maybe.  But it is a fact that the sale of the network was a surprise.  I know from being in positions where my boss changed, it can completely change the way you feel about your job and your job performance.  Being in a position where you have a contract that is bought out and with all new management brought in would be harder.  It's also a fact that many have a tendency to blame Amy for each and every thing wrong with the show even though it's impossible for us to know what she did and didn't have control over.  I've always felt the show they did produce was pretty good, and prefer to trust that they did the best they could.

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Honestly, I think all of the characters suck, but that doesn't mean they aren't entertaining. But my biggest problem is Lorelai. She is cute and pretty and the adopted daughter of a small town and shows it. Her constant ramblings and whimpers and whines and pouts are exhausting. Sometimes she is funny, but mostly I find her exhausting, and I think she resembles her mother more than she would like. Emily is a bully, but at at least when she demands and commands what she wants, she doesn't pout to do it. Lor acts like a child so much of the time and it's embarrassing to watch. She uses and abuses Luke regularly and takes what she wants wherever she can. And her demands were always indulged and rewarded throughout the town. It's no wonder her daughter had all of that potential and derailed her entire life and is now a 33 year old knocked up mess. The Gilmore family was just despicable.

I am over on Lane and Ms. Kim's side of the storylines. They were hilarious.

ETA: I also find it annoying that the Gilmore girls eat so much. Every episode is about two hot chicks eating like pigs and spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on food but never gain an ounce. Is that supposed to be charming?

Edited by Chewy101
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I'm rewatching the show and am currently on season three and I can honestly say there is not one single character up to this point that doesn't annoy me.  Even if I didn't know what became of the characters I would still find them annoying.  Except maybe Babette.  Although her voice irks me.

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5 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

I'm rewatching the show and am currently on season three and I can honestly say there is not one single character up to this point that doesn't annoy me.  Even if I didn't know what became of the characters I would still find them annoying.  Except maybe Babette.  Although her voice irks me.

I find Babette to be one of the most annoying characters.  She calls people sugar which irks me.  She waylaid poor Dean on his first visit to the Gilmore home.  She made people come to a wake for her cat.  I loved my cat, but I was pretty sure nobody wanted to come to wake for her. 

I don't find Lane or Dave annoying.  I find Mrs. Kim more quirky than annoying.  Same with Sookie actually.  And, while Kirk is probably the very definition of annoying, I can't help but love him.

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I am watching season 5, and Rory is interning for some bigwig newspaper guy, and he tells her she isn't cut out to be a journalist. So, fast forward 11 years and guess what! She doesn't have what it takes to be a successful journalist. Plus, she is trampling men just like her mommy did and is incredibly selfish and annoying. 

It's strange to like a show titled Gilmore Girls when I can't actually stand the Gilmore girls.

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21 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

I am watching season 5, and Rory is interning for some bigwig newspaper guy, and he tells her she isn't cut out to be a journalist. So, fast forward 11 years and guess what! She doesn't have what it takes to be a successful journalist. Plus, she is trampling men just like her mommy did and is incredibly selfish and annoying. 

It's strange to like a show titled Gilmore Girls when I can't actually stand the Gilmore girls.

The bigwig is Logan's father.

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I wasn't a Paris fan when I first saw the show.  I came to the forums and everyone LOVES her.  Now that I've watched the show for the 3rd time, I totally get it.  The person who plays Paris is a fantastic actor and she has some of the best deadpan/ hilarious lines.  Also, I've never been a fan of Rory, so I'm sure that helps.

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31 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I wasn't a Paris fan when I first saw the show.  I came to the forums and everyone LOVES her.  Now that I've watched the show for the 3rd time, I totally get it.  The person who plays Paris is a fantastic actor and she has some of the best deadpan/ hilarious lines.  Also, I've never been a fan of Rory, so I'm sure that helps.

In case you didn't know, Liza Weil (Paris) initially auditioned for the role of Rory.

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57 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yes, I read that they created the character of Paris for her.

Can you imagine Gilmore Girls without Paris?  I can't.

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8 hours ago, chessiegal said:

In case you didn't know, Liza Weil (Paris) initially auditioned for the role of Rory.

I knew that, and it always cracks me up. I cannot imagine LW in the role of Rory at all. Like, AT ALL. Paris was perfect for her.

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Mrs. Kim. I never thought I would end up liking her. I hated her the first four seasons the way she treated Lane, all those rules and being so insisting that Lane only date Korean boys. I know Lane hid everything from her but I can't see any point where Lane would have been allowed to tell her mother any of it and not end up in trouble and not allowed to like music or join a band. When she finds all of Lane's hidden stuff and Lane comes home asking if that's all for a moment I do feel sorry for her when she says "I made you do this?" I'm sure she thought she was doing what was best, proper and safe for Lane. But all her rules and punishments made certain that Lane would never tell her anything, she didn't want to hear. I do hate her telling her "children don't make the rules" and telling her to move out. Not that I expected anything else. 

But then Mrs. Kim visits Lane's place. Which is huge for her. She freaks out but I love that instead of running home. She ran to Lorelai. Freaking out but Lorelai calms her down and gives her advice. I love her going back and her whole line about window being fixed, fridge, you two are girls. Then requesting tea. It was such a great moment. She really was trying. Being shocked when Lane comes home to tell her that it looked like the band was over. You really expected Mrs. Kim to be happy, excited, this was what she wanted. Nope, she tells her daughter she didn't raise a quitter and organizes a church tour. When Lane moves back in after Zach was an ass and ruined their chances with a label she's very nice to a very crabby and moody Lane even when she's rough with customers. I love Mrs. Kim remark after the one woman left "You forgot to kicker in the pants before she left". Until the end. She knew Lane was hurt and in mourning for the band and Zach. I love her calmly telling Lane she grieved and now its time to move on and Lane nodding. Telling Lane she was going home after Lane's second wedding and reception and wearing the good earplugs. It was so wonderful seeing how far they came. They loved each other, respected each other and had a great relationship. I do wish Lane had poked her mother a bit when she learned her mother had been doing the same thing to her mother. Hopefully, Lane can break that cycle with her kids. Their last fight over how Lane would raise her kids made sense. I love Lorelai negotiating and then talking to Mrs. Kim how not going to the baby shower could be a line in the sand. And pointing out to Lane, her kids could end up like church. It was perfect. Up until that moment it had never occurred to Lane. She had been so certain that her kids would like what she like until Lorelai pointed out her mother thought the same thing. I do love them making up and Lane explaining why she wanted to go the baby shower so much. That it was her last party. Her mother did everything for her and she would be the same way. It was so really sweet. I never would have thought Lane would have ever said that or meant it the earlier seasons. Or that Mrs. Kim from the early seasons would ever change or accept the real Lane. To see Mrs. Kim being so supportive of her daughter. Or that I would ever end up liking her. 

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Francie Jarvis. I didn't really like her the first few times but now that I've had a chance to study her I hate her. Maybe that's the reason my feelings began to change towards Paris. Compared to Francie, Paris is a dream.

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