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I'm a big fan of Yuzuru, and would personally rather watch him over Nathan any day, but Nathan definitely earned that gold. He gave a clean, high-energy performance, whereas Yuzuru just looked exhausted and too in his head for his entire FS. I wonder if it was nerves and pressure getting to him, or overpracticing, or both maybe? Either way, hoping he can come back fresh and rested for the rest of the season. It's such a shame that so many of his fanbase have reacted so poorly. Sheesh. Nathan may not be the type of skater I personally enjoy the most, but he's a talented guy and gave a great skate, period.

But most exciting to me was Kevin Aymoz! He did fantastic, and looked like he was having a blast every single second. It was a real joy to watch, and even watching him get his scores and jump up and down uncontrollably was touching. Nice to see some tears of joy in that Kiss&Cry now and then.

LOL at the Tiny Tot Quad Parade, ChicksDigScars. So true. It's one of the reasons I've mostly given up on Ladies skating. Why bother paying attention when they'll all just be replaced with newer models next season? I enjoyed Bradie's SP, though my recording cut out for most of the Ladies Free so I missed her FS. Ah well. There's always Youtube.

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1 hour ago, movingtargetgal said:

I just read that Russia will be banned from international athletic events, including the World Cup and Olympics, for 4 years.  How will this impact the figure skating world?

My understanding, based on what I learned from an NPR story this morning, is that individual Russian athletes can still petition to participate as long as they can prove they are not doping and are following the anti-doping rules and their drug tests are clean. And they can’t officially represent Russia. They are “neutral” or something like that. So basically what we saw at the 2018 Peyongchang Olympics.

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8 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

My understanding, based on what I learned from an NPR story this morning, is that individual Russian athletes can still petition to participate as long as they can prove they are not doping and are following the anti-doping rules and their drug tests are clean. And they can’t officially represent Russia. They are “neutral” or something like that. So basically what we saw at the 2018 Peyongchang Olympics.

So, in other words, no big woo. Once again, Russia's athletes aren't really affected. They still are allowed to show up & compete against athletes from countries who don't dope their athletes. This crap won't stop until Russia's athletes are prevented from competing in the Olympics because of the doping issue. 

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2 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

So, in other words, no big woo. Once again, Russia's athletes aren't really affected. They still are allowed to show up & compete against athletes from countries who don't dope their athletes. This crap won't stop until Russia's athletes are prevented from competing in the Olympics because of the doping issue.

THIS. There is no real punishment here. That's why it continues. Like it was a big mystery when all the "nonaffiliated," or whatever the term was, not-Russian athletes got to form a freaking TEAM for the group skating event at the 2018 Olympics. At the very least, they should not be permitted to compete in events like that. There would be more change if unaffected athletes had to find another country to represent because if they stayed in Russia, they would be barred entirely.

I also feel that the ISU should be more vigilant about what enables the prepubescent, interchangeable "Tiny Tot Quad Parade" (LOL!) emerging from Russia, but that's an adjacent issue.

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They'll probably copy and paste the 'authorized neutral athlete' rules over from track and field because those have survived CAS challenge. Which works out to it being about 50/50 if a petition for ANA is approved and those who are approved generally have pretty significant stamps in their biological passport that do not involve Russian drug testing labs. 

The IAAF rules also do not allow for ANAs to form relay squads or compete as teams, IIRC. Which is going to have a lot more impact in ice hockey, team handball, and the like than it will in figure skating.

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I feel like the only thing that might have teeth and get Russia- and other countries- so stop doping would be to disqualify anyone who tests positive and keep them out of olympics/world championships.  It sucks, but maybe that's the only way.  

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1 hour ago, selkie said:

They'll probably copy and paste the 'authorized neutral athlete' rules over from track and field because those have survived CAS challenge. Which works out to it being about 50/50 if a petition for ANA is approved and those who are approved generally have pretty significant stamps in their biological passport that do not involve Russian drug testing labs. 

The IAAF rules also do not allow for ANAs to form relay squads or compete as teams, IIRC. Which is going to have a lot more impact in ice hockey, team handball, and the like than it will in figure skating.

It would affect the Team Event at the Olympics. They'd have to sit that one out. 

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2 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Were James and Cipres just sitting out a year, due to injury, or had they retired?

They were planning to complete at Euros this season again, after James did Rock the Rink, IIRC. I don't remember if they cited anything, but now I do wonder...

Absolutely disgusting.

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James did Battle of the Blades so they pulled out of their Grand Prix assignments. John Zimmerman is their coach (former Olympian and world medalist with Kyoka Ina) and Sylvia Fontana is Kevin Amoyz’s coach. 

This is really bad. I think Cipres’s career is done. 
 

Edited by healthnut
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This is sickening. Cipres, Fontana and Zimmerman all should be done.

Zimmerman and Fontana are particularly disgusting. They have kids themselves. And they threatened the 13 year old into silence by saying "You're a pretty girl and men have needs" just so C/J could compete in Pyeongchang. What a shame. They before this had a good reputation as elite coaches. Now I don't think they should ever work with kids again.

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I feel for Kevin, who is having a career year. All of them should be done.

eta: Aren't Denney and Frazier also training with Silvia and John? Not a lot of options for them to find a new training base.

Edited by Sew Sumi
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On 12/9/2019 at 2:16 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

Heh. Love the dance result! Now onto Chock and Bates reclaiming their U.S. Championship and the looks on the Entitlement Twin's faces. Unfortunately, NBC Sports Channel only showed the Men and the Tiny Tot Quad Parade. I'd rather see Dance and Pairs. Hopefully, the Olympic Channel will show them this week. Right now, the ladies are the last thing that I want to watch, 

I just don't get it. Alena is a beautiful skater, and LOL to her taking a bite out of her chocolate flower bouquet on the podium. I hope that Eteri didn't yank them away and tell her that she used up her caloric limit for the day. But, I can't even get into Trusova and her quads. It's not visually pleasing. Men are different. They're grown ups, their bodies have matured. I think they need to limit the number of quads for the women. Make it an issue of safety. I'd prefer watching the beauty of a quadless Zagitova, over her jumping bean country mates, any day. 

And I think that the Hanyu fans are WAY out of control. They had "unfair judging" banners already pre-made and held them up during the medal ceremony. They go on social media and find the judge who "underscored" Hanyu, and "overscored" Chen, and directly everyone to contact the ISU regarding that judge's status. And the Pooh Bears! Jesus Christ, how is that fair to the person who skates after him? Not only to have to wait while they clean up the ice, but the risk that a part of a teddy bear isn't still on the ice and tripping over it. Poor Yuzuru looks embarrassed by everything. Even pointing to Nathan on the podium as if to say, "HE won. Please cheer for HIM." 

Oh, and Nathan? NO on the urine yellow. The multi-colored shirt was better.  

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Yes. I keep saying men and women have different bodies. You can't compare men and women. There's a reason why in sports men and women don't compete against each other. grown man get harmed and injuried by quads. Both Hanyu and Chen had injuries from quads. 

It also irks me seeing a beautiful 4Lz being called a quad in the ladies. Only four men on the top of my head can jump a beautiful 4Lz right now(Boyang, Hanyu, Chen, Kolyada) 

Hanyu fans are a bit too much. Look, Nathan won fair and square. It's not his fault. I do agree he was a little overscored but he still would've won. 

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1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

eta: Aren't Denney and Frazier also training with Silvia and John?

Yes, Aymoz and Denney/Frazier are Zimmerman and Fontana's biggest other students.

Unrelatedly, the trailer for Netflix's skating drama:

Because we all know that if fear of injury is inhibiting your singles career, go into pairs!

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23 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

So, in other words, no big woo. Once again, Russia's athletes aren't really affected. They still are allowed to show up & compete against athletes from countries who don't dope their athletes. This crap won't stop until Russia's athletes are prevented from competing in the Olympics because of the doping issue. 

It pissed me off that Russian was in hot water, was allowed to compete under the Olympic flag, then they doped in curling. Curling out of all sports. This was a state running doping program. They need to be punished. I'm sorry for the clean athetes but they'll keep doing this over and over again. 

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On 12/7/2019 at 10:20 PM, specialj67 said:

Alina had a very rough free skate. She had one outright fall and a couple of stumbles on other jumps, and every one of her triple jumps was (rightly) called under. At least one of them was downgraded too.

Trusova and Shcherbavoka both fell once and had a quad jump called under in their free skates. But Trusova also popped what I assume was a planned quad salchow into a double, her PCS score was the lowest, and she got lower GOE on her non-jump elements in comparison to her fellow medalists. Honestly, I’m a little surprised her PCS scores are as high as they are.

Poor kid. Alina is actually one of my favorites due to her personality. Sad to see her like this. Too bad Eteri's attention will not fully be on her. I still can't believe she went from Red Ballerina to this. I also hate her Cleopatra program. Costume is good music and choreography is awful. 

Eteri is crazy as hell for putting those quads in Trusova and 3A in her program knowing damn well she can't land it. Why? Just why, can't we be safe here. She doesn't need 5 quads. Especially when she can't land them. Goes for Anna too. It's interesting to see Alena win and get high scores with triples and 3A. 

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4 minutes ago, Darknight said:

Eteri is crazy as hell for putting those quads in Trusova and 3A in her program knowing damn well she can't land it. Why? Just why, can't we be safe here. She doesn't need 5 quads. Especially when she can't land them.

I'm not sure where you're getting that from.  Trusova can clearly land all her quads (though the quad Salchow in competition this season has been a bust), and the triple Axel would have reached a threshold in practice for them to put it in.

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8 hours ago, Darknight said:

Eteri is crazy as hell for putting those quads in Trusova and 3A in her program knowing damn well she can't land it. Why?

I don't believe Eteri's putting it in "even though she can't land it", but it's not new if it's just to get points, either. Jeff Buttle's quad was mostly a myth, as was Kolyada's 4Lz.

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21 hours ago, SeanC said:

Unrelatedly, the trailer for Netflix's skating drama:

Because we all know that if fear of injury is inhibiting your singles career, go into pairs!

LOL. Yeah, don't mind those pesky overhead lifts, risk of being dropped on your ass (or worse....head), or kicked upside the head by your partner's skate blade. Oh, and don't watch You Tubes of skater's calves being slashed by the razor sharp blade of their partner, either.

Pairs skating is a piece of cake. Safe as shit. Being tossed halfway across the rink? What are you bitching about, you wuss? 

Oy!!!

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Beyond my general dislike of H/D, I loathe their rhythm dance. Whoever thought that "My Hearts Belongs to Daddy" was a winner for ice dance is clueless or hates Hubbell and Donohue as much (or more) than I do.

That said, as a musical theatre nerd, I have enjoyed the theme of the rhythm dance this season. Musicals + figure skating = me living my best life.

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I don't think I'll be watching that movie.  Think I'll just stick with competitive skating at Nationals and Worlds. I'm nervous enough watching competitive pairs these past 10 or 15 years!

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12 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I don't think I'll be watching that movie.  Think I'll just stick with competitive skating at Nationals and Worlds. I'm nervous enough watching competitive pairs these past 10 or 15 years!

I generally don't like movies about skating, even though I'm a fan of the sport. Ice Castles was the only one where they showed normal lighting at a rink and somewhat realistic conditions. I mean, what was with The Cutting Edge and it's dramatic spotlighting during competitions, and illegal pair moves? The Pamchenko? WTF? It looked like the move that Will Ferrell and Napoleon Dynamite did in their skating farce.

Oh course, Ice Castles had its own problems, mainly that a 16 year old skater had a sexual relationship with an adult male sportscaster, and no one batted an eyelash. Even back in the late 70's/early 80's, when the movie came out, I was a kid, but it squicked me out. All they had to do is say that she was 18. Lynn Holly Johnson certainly looked 18. 

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I'm mildly annoyed that the announcers' critique of H/D's programs is that the music cuts aren't very good (which is true).  But I also feel like how they present it is pretty weak, and while I don't know a ton about all the rules/technical stuff, their moves/required elements look sloppy.  

I wonder what the themes/style of the RD will be next year.

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4 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I'm mildly annoyed that the announcers' critique of H/D's programs is that the music cuts aren't very good (which is true).  But I also feel like how they present it is pretty weak, and while I don't know a ton about all the rules/technical stuff, their moves/required elements look sloppy.  

I'm watching the Grand Prix free dance On Demand, and I agree with both the issue of the music and the sloppiness of the elements. I dislike both programs this year, though I think that "Let's Be Bad" could have had potential if it weren't paired with "My Heart Belongs to Daddy." Perhaps another Smash song might have worked here.

I'm definitely not a specialist when it comes to looking at the technical aspect of skating, but I felt like H/D's numbers were filled with indiscriminate flailing. As I watched their free dance, I had the feeling that they (and the commentators) were focusing more on "passion/chemistry" at the expense of sound technical skills. They want to be the second coming of V/M. However, they don't appear to have V/M's solid skating skills. I'd also argue that H/D's passion seems very forced, which makes them an ersatz V/M (who I also found convoluted, but not to the extent of H/D). 

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7 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I wonder what the themes/style of the RD will be next year.

I keep hoping that it will be folk dancing. First of all, it will be a stretch for a lot of these teams & some of them need a stretch.  Secondly, I'd love to see them all in native country costumes.

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9 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:
17 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I wonder what the themes/style of the RD will be next year.

I keep hoping that it will be folk dancing. First of all, it will be a stretch for a lot of these teams & some of them need a stretch.  Secondly, I'd love to see them all in native country costumes.

The music theme next year is Folk and the pattern is Ravensburger Waltz.

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12 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I keep hoping that it will be folk dancing. First of all, it will be a stretch for a lot of these teams & some of them need a stretch.  Secondly, I'd love to see them all in native country costumes.

Wait...isn't that theme what gave us the inappropriately hideous Domnina and Shabalin in 2010?

PTSD flashbacks...

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9 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Wait...isn't that theme what gave us the inappropriately hideous Domnina and Shabalin in 2010?

PTSD flashbacks...

I was just thinking about that and shuddering. Well, it wasn't gypsy dances. I mean, it wasn't good, but it was different. 

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10 minutes ago, healthnut said:

So Zagitova will not be at Russian Nationals, she is taking some time off...

Why not, when her coach is only interested in pre-pubescent jumping beans? Artists need not apply.

Just saw it on Twitter.

image.thumb.png.63b1e58802feeef0bef37eb194ccc350.png

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Tara never competed again after she won gold in Nagano in '98. She didn't even go to World's in '98 and they weren't doing anything more difficult than triple triples back then. 

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9 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Artists need not apply.

So sad, and so true.  I miss the days when there was more to women/girls' figure skating than jumps, scary coaches, and unhealthy eating habits.  😢


and...folk dancing?  I'm shuddering at the potentially unfortunate music choices/edits that might happen.

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To me Alena Kostornaia is already more artistic than Zagitova, who I don't find all that artistic (though she's fine). Also, Zagitova always skates a little hunched over. Scherbakova is also pretty musical. Trusova, though...yeah.

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Kostornaia, Scherbakova, my beloved Rika are all pretty artistic in their own way imo.

I loved loved loved both Alina and Zhenya's performances at the Olympics too. I wouldn't say it's reached dire straits yet until Trusova starts winning everything. But then there's still silver and bronze to root for if that day comes.

I really can't get into her programs at all and I'm a jump fiend!

Speaking of women: Big YAYS for Bradie and Mariah who keep getting better and better with time!!!

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On 12/13/2019 at 8:56 AM, healthnut said:

The music theme next year is Folk and the pattern is Ravensburger Waltz.

Reportedly (from Piper Gilles), the Olympic season senior pattern is going to be a reprise of the 2016/17 season's midnight blues/hip hop theme.  The junior pattern that year will be the Maple Leaf March (based on Gilles/Poirier's Beatles RD from 2015/16), one of the two new patterns adopted by the ISU a few years ago.

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So much drama in skating this month. Eteri throwing shade at TAT. Alina retiring isn't a shock. Her skaters can't last for more than two seasons at best. I'll miss Alina. This makes me worried for her three new seniors. 

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On 12/10/2019 at 6:34 PM, SeanC said:

I'm not sure where you're getting that from.  Trusova can clearly land all her quads (though the quad Salchow in competition this season has been a bust), and the triple Axel would have reached a threshold in practice for them to put it in.

She's having trouble with her 4S and hasn't skated a clean program since the season started. Even falling on a quad or 3a is worth it for the points. It looks to me that Eteri and her team will milk Trusova for all she has. They just keep adding jump after jump. It's irresponsible 

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Sad about Kolyada.

With the Wada reports about Russia, every time a russian skater is injured or takes a break, I wonder if banned substances are involved.  😞

I wish someone would take down Eteri.  I feel like she is worse than the Karolyis.

I am sad  I don't get to see the skaters like/admire, like Kaori/Rika/Evegnia/Alina?Mariah/Bradie, because they cannot live up to the quads. For example,  I love Koari's Matrix program, which I've only seen...once?  Maybe twice?

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You'll get to see Kaori at Worlds (she should come second at Japanese Nationals...Satoko is off this season) and 4CCs. I love that program, too! 

The Skating Lesson expose is pitting Eteri vs. Tarasova. I wonder how true that is. But at this time, what Eteri is doing at Sambo70 seems almost like a puppy mill. She hasn't proven that she can successfully coach anyone past puberty. Look at poor Alina now. I'd be shocked if she returns to competitive skating.

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3 hours ago, Darknight said:

She's having trouble with her 4S and hasn't skated a clean program since the season started. Even falling on a quad or 3a is worth it for the points. It looks to me that Eteri and her team will milk Trusova for all she has. They just keep adding jump after jump. It's irresponsible 

When you're attempting 4-5 quads (particularly early on), it's hardly unusual to not be completely clean.  That's been the norm in men's skating for decades (for that matter, most ladies are lucky to be completely clean even with only triples).  Nothing out of the ordinary.  Trusova can clearly do the jumps (though, as I said, I do wonder whether bringing back the 4S is worth the trouble; but Trusova is open that the high-risk jumps are what she finds interesting).

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I am sad  I don't get to see the skaters like/admire, like Kaori/Rika/Evegnia/Alina?Mariah/Bradie, because they cannot live up to the quads. For example,  I love Koari's Matrix program, which I've only seen...once?  Maybe twice?

I'm not sure what you mean here.  The only competition where some of those non-Russian skaters might not be able to attend because of Eteri's skaters is the Grand Prix Final.  Kaori has skated three competitions so far this season, with three more (presumptively) to come.

Unrelatedly, the CBC put Virtue/Moir's 2007 Worlds free dance up on YouTube (presumably geoblocked outside Canada).  I wish they'd put more of the older stuff like this up, it's nice to be able to revisit it.

Edited by SeanC

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Julia, Evgenia and now Alina

That's 3 for now. I wonder how the Eteri Kool Aid drinkers will defend her when the current Wunderkidz can't jump anymore.

The puppy mill system seems to be working wonders for her but I am really curious as to when people will acknowledge it for what it is.

The scary thing is they jump really well until one day when they can't jump anymore.

Edited by Mellowyellow
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14 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Julia, Evgenia and now Alina

That's 3 for now. I wonder how the Eteri Kool Aid drinkers will defend her when the current Wunderkidz can't jump anymore.

The puppy mill system seems to be working wonders for her but I am really curious as to when people will acknowledge it for what it is.

The scary thing is they jump really well until one day when they can't jump anymore.

I’m sure there are people in skating circles who don’t agree with how the Sambo70 team trains or their methods, but unless/until Sambo70 reach a certain state of diminishing returns, there probably won’t be many willing to speak against them directly or publicly. No one coach or training center stays number one forever—that’s what I feel, anyway. 

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