Figure Skating

[ariel]

Well, damn.  Toller's sister has just confirmed.

I was hoping it wasn't true.

[Brattinella]

I see Mirai got robbed again.

[selkie]

I've had a soft spot for Ashley Wagner ever since she got angry instead of crying her mascara off after just missing the team for the 2010 Olympics. Yes, she has all the edge of a mewing kitten outside the ring, but in a sport that still seems stuck in the 1950s world of very slavic-looking people in fur coats and who probably consider Barry Manilow to be  edgy, and who still seem to have an expectation of what a 'ladies' skater is supposed to be, she doesn't quite fit in with that. And she doesn't have the personality to go full-on Surya Bonaly or raw talent of Tanya Harding (if Tanya actually had a decent work ethic and hadn't been a criminal...) to cast herself fully into the rebel role, so she's in some sort of uncanny valley of almost like what we'd expect from her but not quite.

[kitmerlot1213]

I would love it if Courtney Hicks has a fabulous long program and sweeps in to win a medal.

 

For the life of me, I can not get into Chock and Bates and it's obvious that the USFSA have decided to crown them as their new champions.  And listening to Tanith Belbin ooh and aah over them was kind of painful.

[Avaleigh]

Damn, I'm bummed about Toller Cranston. Makes me want to want to watch the Magic Memories on Ice series.

Mirai got robbed?

Well, this totally sucks. I guess I just have the men and dance to look forward to then.

[Tippi]

I am amazed that Ashley was (almost) able to pull off a triple lutz-triple toe.  I can't imagine the determination that it would take at age 23 to "get" that skill. In my observation very few skaters are able to master a new very advanced technical move once they are out of their teens, especially the women.  And with Ashley's long history of double footing and under-rotating, I am doubly amazed.  I would rather see Gracie win but I must tip my hat to Ashley.

[Brattinella]

I guess Mirai does still have a chance; I didn't realize there was more competition tomorrow.  I have NO LOVE for Ashley at all! I just don't understand the love and POINTS she gets.   I did think Chock and Bates were mesmerizing! 

 

 

ETA I really did love Johnny's fingerwaves and black lame' he looks FABULOUS!

Edited January 24, 2015 by Brattinella

[Avaleigh]

Am I the only one who thinks it's total nonsense that Ashley wasn't given an edge call on the combination? I don't understand why she gets away with so much. I don't understand those scores. Maybe I should watch it again but that was my initial reaction after seeing the top four just now.

[Tippi]

I was running up and down the stairs cooking, so I missed big portions of the broadcast, but there were some really good performances this year.  I am always looking for someone to "grab" me--I really liked what I saw of Karen Chen.  Very young but with beautiful presentation and apparently fearless in tackling the tough jumps.  The top 3 pairs were pretty good.  I think I preferred Denney/Frazier's program to Scimeca/Knerim's, but that quad twist is a doozy and D/F skated very tight.  I probably enjoyed the program of Kayne/O'Shea the most--really liked Tarah Kayne's skating and their choreography was quite good.

 

I liked Chock and Bates but I find myself a bit distracted by the big difference in their heights.  The young couple (I think it was Hiwaek/Baker) were very good but they are too close in height. (I sound like Goldilocks!) I liked the couple who performed to Masquerade Waltz and the Shibs are charming.

[CherryMalotte]

Both Wagner and Gold look 'clunky' to me - their skating just seems so unimaginative.  It's not musical.  I realize I have impossibly high expectations but I want to see Victoria Page on the ice, not an MMA walkabout.  

 

Back to my corner now.   

[Joelle N. Bird]

Count me among the Wagner non-fans. I recently read a Christine Brennan article in which Ashley complained that the Russian skaters play the technical game and just go for the points, while American women are more well-rounded and artistic. HUH? Has she seen their spins, their grace, their musicality? Take away Wagner's jumps and what's left?! OK, it may be that I dislike her skating so much (would it kill her to take a ballet lesson?) in part because I dislike her personality so much. I know that a giant ego is necessary in this demanding sport, but she seems incapable of making a single gracious comment about anyone else. Viva Mirai! I still think she was robbed.

[Mumbles]

Aw, Scott Hamilton got teary and choked up at the Toller Cranston news.

 

I just saw Karen Chen in the short skate from this afternoon. She is so tiny and prepubescent-looking, I was shocked to learn she was 15. I know that these young women train a lot so I can understand if puberty/menarche is delayed somewhat, but she really looked 11 or 12.  Polina Edmunds has begun to look less kid-like and according to the commentators, she told reporters that puberty was upon her. But she's 16! That should have happened three years ago. 

 

Nothing makes me an Ashley Wagner fan than watching the pre-taped segs of Gracie Gold. She just comes off as a mean girl.  (It's too much to hope for these judges to get over their Mirai-hate.)

[Brattinella]

Oh my!  Jason Brown and Max Aaron!  What performances!  Was that Rudy Galindo at the Kiss N Cry with Jason?

[gatopretoNYC]

Was that Rudy Galindo at the Kiss N Cry with Jason?

 

That was my first reaction, too, but no, it's the choreographer. :)

[Brattinella]

Ah, thanks!  What a cutie, though!

[Avaleigh]

Aw, Scott Hamilton got teary and choked up at the Toller Cranston news.

Aww. Is this on icenetwork? Is he doing commentary still? Just curious. I've been watching the short programs on youtube (about to start the men) and I'm wondering who the female commentator is. 

 

When I think of Toller Cranston I can't help but think of that period where he really went out of his way to try to help Christopher Bowman and the situation just turning into a total disaster. 65? Jeez.

 

Fingers crossed for Jason Brown in the long!

[Fostersmom]

And that smug ass interview sums up everything I hate about Wagner. 

[BelleBrit]

I am heartbroken for Mirai. I hope she is ok. Are Tom Z and Greensboro cursed? I think that's where Joshua Farris skated while injured. Congrats to Ashley for winning the title. Her 2013 win was controversial, so good for her for proving herself here. She may not be my style skater, but she shows fight. I hope Samantha Cesario chooses a non Carmen program next year.

[emma675]

I made it through about 10 seconds of the Ashley Wagner interview in the opening of skating on NBC tonight. If you have to constantly tell people you're edgy, you're not edgy.

[SophiaD]

Thank God for icenetwork.com.  Now, I know whether or not to watch the rebroadcast (which starts right now out here on the Left Coast).

 

Edited, because I guess you don't come to an Internet bulletin board, if you wish to remain unspoiled.  ;)

 

Really not thrilled at the result.  Again, I admire her fight, but Ashley's skating - and her attitude - leave me absolutely cold.  Ah, well.  Golden Skate is going into spasms of joy.  I do hope Mirai is okay.

Edited January 25, 2015 by SophiaD

[shoregirl]

I kind of love Karen Chen. I hope she, and a few of the other younger ladies get a chance to compete internationally.

I am glad I didn't take a shot for everytime they mentioned the gold/Wagner rivalry because I would probably be passed out right now.

[Shades of Red]

So sad about Toller Cranston.  I found out the news just before heading off to watch the Canadian pairs and dance long programs tonight.  They didn't say anything in the arena while I was there.  I'll have to check my PVR'd stuff to see if Rod Black or Tracy Wilson say anything about him.  The last time I saw him was on Battle of the Blades and he was a little crotchety.  He was very talented on the ice and was quite the artist.

 

I am so thrilled that Dylan Moscovitch and his new partner took the silver tonight!  He looks happy and the two of them look really good together.  Of course Eric and Meagan got the gold but the rest of the medals were up for grabs.

 

No real surprises in the dance.  I have to say I'm not really fond of some of the lifts the dance couples are doing.  I think the rules need to be changed and the 6 second rule or however short of a time they have for a lift needs to be lengthened.  It was rare to see a lift that didn't look awkward, sloppy or out of control.  It didn't seem to matter which couple was performing.  Some of them have a cool lift or two - I'm fond of the "planking" one that Kaitlyn and Andrew do, but honestly someone needs to come up with something better for this part of the technical requirement.

 

I'm looking forward to the Gala tomorrow - not sure if CTV/TSN or even CBC will air any of it although they usually shorten it to fit into a time slot and you don't get to see all the performances if you're not there in person.

[honeywest]

 

Nothing makes me an Ashley Wagner fan than watching the pre-taped segs of Gracie Gold. She just comes off as a mean girl.

 

 

 

Yes to this.

 

I'm very impressed with Rohene Ward's choreography--not just for Jason Brown but for Mariah Bell and Tyler Pierce, too.

 

I hope they give Toller Cranston a nice tribute at the men's long tomorrow.

 

Oh, Mirai. (But I think the curse is Tom Z., not Greensboro.)

[Brattinella]

I DVR'd the last hour, so I haven't seen the smug Wagner interview yet (I will be FF through it).  Did Mirai get hurt or something?

[Rick Kitchen]

Why are they saying the quad lutz is the most difficult jump?  Do they just mean it's the most difficult jump being performed?  Surely a quad axel is more difficult?

 

I wish Jason Brown would throw a quad.  Plus there was a little bobble in one of his steps moves that they didn't comment on.

[honeywest]

Mirai got too close to the boards and fell. She was obviously in pain afterward.

[selkie]

Mirai crashed into the board and while she finished her program, the tears at the end seemed to be for physical as well as emotional pain. I think I heard chatter in the background about sending her to medical after her scores were announced.

 

Ashley's interview at the end was of the 'I finally put it all together in competition what I've been doing in practice; they need to consider me a podium threat now.' I like her honesty and how she doesn't play the false modesty game, but it did seem rather self-centered.

[Mumbles]

 

Aww. Is this on icenetwork? Is he doing commentary still? Just curious.

Not full time - Johnny, Tara and Terry do the main commentary, they occasionally cut to Scott and Andrea Joyce throughout the program.  The part where I saw Scott get sad was this afternoon, in the third hour. He might have just heard the news a few minutes before.

 

Ashley skated great tonight, but I am SO SICK of her "I'm such an underdog, everyone counts me out, nobody believes in me" nonsense. For years she was a golden child. If you want to look at a person who hasn't gotten the respect she deserves, look at Mirai, the woman whose spot you stole last year.

 

Johnny and Tara are great. They call out the programs for simpy music (Polina, Courtney Hicks), which I love. The music is part of the performance and should be considered. Sick of unimaginative Carmens, Toscas, Phantoms.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Mumbles

[gatopretoNYC]

Aww. Is this on icenetwork? Is he doing commentary still? Just curious. I've been watching the short programs on youtube (about to start the men) and I'm wondering who the female commentator is. 

 

Fingers crossed for Jason Brown in the long!

 

It was on the NBC coverage. They had Scott & Andrea Joyce do a short discussion a few times. I am not happy about that, especially because while discussing Ladies, he mentioned famous previous US champs "Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill, Kristi Yamaguchi, and Tara Lipinski."

 

How in the HELL could he forget Michelle Kwan?! I mean, she only won NINE times! Ugh. I thought we were rid of him.

 

--------------------------------------------

 

Yes! I love Jason Brown. I was also happy to see Adam Rippon have a good program.

[SophiaD]

Joshua Farris is simply breathtaking.  That one spin!  I am thrilled to death that the men's team has such great skaters coming up, although I know they really need quads to be truly competitive. 

 

I was also delighted to see Adam Rippon skate so well.  His step sequences are among my favorites. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by SophiaD

[Rick Kitchen]

I liked Tara calling Max Aaron's routine "juvenile".

Joshua Farris looked good.

I wish Jeremy Abbott would either perform at Worlds like he does at Nationals, or just retire, period.

[Avaleigh]

I'm really bummed about the ladies so I'm glad that I'm enjoying the men's event. Nice on Adam for going for the quad lutz. I've always liked him and wish he'd fully get it together. 

 

I *love* Josh's spins. Love them. I wasn't even wild about the music he used but he totally sold the program for me. 

 

Not even being snarky--I'm genuinely curious as to who is supposed to be punk and who was supposed to be princess between Tara and Johnny. I'm assuming Johnny was supposed to be princess but Tara didn't look punk at all so I'm lost. Not that I've spent time thinking about this or anything. ;-p

[gatopretoNYC]

I wish Jeremy Abbott would either perform at Worlds like he does at Nationals, or just retire, period.

 

Yes. I've never cared much for his skating, but on an emotional/human level I was happy he was able to have a clean program, after his father passed away.

 

I like Tara & Johnny, but when they both kept saying Abbott "was robbed" to be in third place, I was like "WTF?" They must be inhaling too much glitter.

[gatopretoNYC]

Watching the coverage this afternoon, I don't know how many times I saw skaters dangerously close to boards. I even said to my husband "I hope no one crashes into them", and then of course the one that does is one of my favorite skaters. Poor Mirai. :(

Not even being snarky--I'm genuinely curious as to who is supposed to be punk and who was supposed to be princess between Tara and Johnny. I'm assuming Johnny was supposed to be princess but Tara didn't look punk at all so I'm lost. Not that I've spent time thinking about this or anything. ;-p

 

It was the other way around, I think.

[Avaleigh]

I'm surprised that anyone would choose to skate to Titanic. I remember Shizuka once skating to it years ago and I remember thinking that it was a poor choice then.

 

I might well be wrong but this is the first time I ever recall the men's short program being a lead in for the ladies final without the ladies short being shown at all. I find this to be utterly perplexing. They don't even at least show Ashley's winning short? I don't get it.

 

Maybe Johnny was going for an Adam Ant sort of look. I guess that makes Tara the Princess of Sugarland.

[shoregirl]

They showed that ladies short this afternoon in between the pairs and dance finals.

[WhitneyWhit]

If anyone needs an explanation as to why I don't like Ashley Wagner, her post-win interview says it all. There a difference between confidence and being obnoxious, and Ms. Wagner needs to learn what that is.

 

All these girls should probably watch out for Karen Chen, though.

[selkie]

It's going to be interesting to see if Chen has one great year or a great career at the senior level. Did I hear correctly that she's too young for senior Worlds this year?

[Mumbles]

Chen is fast and tiny. Not sure what happens to the speed if she ever gets a growth spurt.

[Avaleigh]

Thanks, shoregirl, I thought that I'd read that short programs weren't being shown this year on NBC so I was surprised to see the men as a lead in and wondered what happened. My mistake. I have no business complaining anyway since I watched the short programs of the ladies that I wanted to see on youtube, but I was thinking about casual viewers and the overall decline of ratings and interest in the sport.

 

Chen is fast and tiny. Not sure what happens to the speed if she ever gets a growth spurt.

Yeah, you never know. It makes me think about skaters like Caroline Zhang and Naomi Nari Nam. Caroling was pretty damn good around 2007/2008. She and Mirai basically came up together but Mirai had a slightly easier time dealing with the growth spurt issues.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Avaleigh

[selkie]

I'm glad to see that Polina seems to be working through those issues okay. Even with the bad choreography, there's s distinctiveness to her skating that I enjoy. I think it's a combination of the long & lean creating interesting angles (I thought her Bielman actually managed some elegance) and her tendency to flap her arms in different ways than I usually see on ice.

[Avaleigh]

I thought Karen Chen was really good. We'll see if it lasts but I'm definitely impressed so far. I also liked the unexpected music choice. I'd expect a guy to skate to The Godfather before a girl.

 

I feel so sad for Mirai. I should know better than to ever root for anyone. I say this as somebody who constantly rooted/roots for skaters like Alissa, Sasha, Julia, Adam Rippon, Savchenko and Szolkowy, etc. Hell, even when I'm backing winners like Yuna in this past Olympics it doesn't happen. Ditto for thinking the US ladies champion from last year could hold on to her title. It's a good thing I'm not the gambling sort. 

 

Gracie seems to miss the flip a lot. This is like the third or fourth time in a major competition within the past year or so. Ugh, and why do I feel like Ashley gave a mental fistpump after Gracie's fall? 

[Rick Kitchen]

I wonder if the American judges are just getting tired of seeing Abbott crash and burn on the international stage and downgraded him so that he won't be a favorite for any color medal.

Will US men's third place even qualify for Worlds?

[MaryMitch]

I don't understand why everyone here is so down on Ashley Wagner. She gave a stunning performance! And she is giving the interviewers exactly what they want - a story to go with the "Gracie Gold is a princess" meme.

 

Ashley's program is the best use of lyrics that I've seen. I also liked Joshua Farris's program on the men's side.

[Mittengirl]

I just can't bring myself to like Jason Brown. Part of that may be that I simply cannot stand long hair on men. Part is also that when he talks he sounds like a tween. I think he also seems rather full of himself ( believing his own press?).

I was shocked to hear that Josh Farris is actually younger than Brown. He looks like an actual adult, rather than Jason's very juvenile look.

I guess I feel towards Jason what others feel about Ashley. Some people just rub you the wrong way and there really isn't much that can be done to change it.

[methodwriter85]

Am I the only one who thinks it's total nonsense that Ashley wasn't given an edge call on the combination? I don't understand why she gets away with so much. I don't understand those scores. Maybe I should watch it again but that was my initial reaction after seeing the top four just now.

 

Because American figure skating is in a major downturn right now, and they need stars desperately, and the whole Ashley Wagner/Gracie Gold deal is the first glimpse of star rivalries that the general public is taking note of in a good 5 years?

[BelleBrit]

Listening to Ashley talk makes me miss Michelle Kwan (hides). Sometimes her spunkiness is refreshing, but other times I cringe. That said, despite the ego, I know that her inability to filter is part of what makes her fans love her. Sometimes I think that it's a mental strategy on her part...that the more she talks herself up, the more she'll believe in herself. Sometimes I think Mirai could use a good dose of ego. Speaking of Mirai, it sounds like the injury isn't too serious. Apparently she had a cartilage contusion last month on the knee she fell on, so it got aggravated. An ultrasound showed no serious damage, but they are following up today. She was doing pretty well up until the blade clipped the boards. And now that Ashley is perceived as in the running for a worlds medal, I am rooting for Gracie since Iike the underdog. I was proud that she did the triple triple. Not crazy about her music, but then I don't like Ashley's music either...mostly the slow section where she starts scrunching her eyebrows.

[Avaleigh]

I don't understand why everyone here is so down on Ashley Wagner. She gave a stunning performance! And she is giving the interviewers exactly what they want - a story to go with the "Gracie Gold is a princess" meme.

 

 

For me personally, it's a combination of not particularly caring for her skating style coupled with really, really not caring for her obnoxious and cocky attitude. I think she seems so full of herself and she's been this way for a long time now, at least five years. I guess I should be thankful that we didn't get her talking about herself in the third person.

 

As far as the program itself I will acknowledge that she seems to have improved on the two footing issue. That being said I still think that she has a way of telegraphing her jumps that is distracting. I'm still *completely* underwhelmed by her spins. I also feel like her facial expressions border on the ridiculous at times.

 

Elena basically has Worlds in the bag IMO.  

 

Not crazy about her music, but then I don't like Ashley's music either...mostly the slow section where she starts scrunching her eyebrows.

 

The eyebrows, the over emphasis on the mouth--when it comes to facial expressions I feel like she's trying too hard.

 

And now that Ashley is perceived as in the running for a worlds medal, I am rooting for Gracie since Iike the underdog.

 

 

I am too. I really hope she can sort out her issues with the flip. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by Avaleigh

[honeywest]

I would be happy with a Jason/Josh/Jeremy podium, in any order.

I

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/can-michael-jackson-save-figure-skating-20150123

[basiltherat]

I just found this thread (I was a fan of the skating thread over at TWOP) only to have the very first thing I saw was that Toller Cranston had died.  He was my very favorite back in the day and I so loved the "artiste" persona in the face of ever-increasing jump-centric skating.  (I prefer Josef Sobovchek's (sp??) gravity-defying single axel to anyone's quads.)  RIP to Toller, a great artiste!