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S01.E06: Fly

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I did like the few Rachel and Adam scenes we had--them bonding over not liking children.

Does Rachel not like children?  I think the only genuine moment, on Rachel's part, in that scene was when things got uncomfortable when she looked into his eyes.  Otherwise, that whole scene felt like classic Rachel producing.

 

Also wish they wouldn't have advertised the last 30 seconds, they hyped it up and it ended being not that shocking compared to other twists they could have taken.

Yep. I've already expressed my disappointment but that "last 30 seconds" gambit was an attempt to attrat new viewers but ended up being disappointing for many already-viewers.

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There's something to be said for how I ended up having to pause the show for 20 minutes and run an errand. I totally missed the promo guy.

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Does Rachel not like children?  I think the only genuine moment, on Rachel's part, in that scene was when things got uncomfortable when she looked into his eyes.  Otherwise, that whole scene felt like classic Rachel producing.

 

 

It's always tough to tell with Rachel, but the cigarette butt story sounded very unrehearsed so I think it was as close to genuine as she gets.

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According to a tweet after the show, the cigarette butt story wasn't actually in the script.

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Something just occurred to me that I don't think has been mentioned yet:

 

The deal that Chet and Quinn made to promote the new show:  anyone think that deal will now crash with the revelation of what's happened with Mary on Everlasting?

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Everything about the conversation between Chet, Rachel, and Quinn at the beginning of the ep was disgusting. Ashley Scott is seven years younger than Constance Zimmer (37 to 44 – although at 37, Ashley Scott/Mary IS older than your typical dating reality show contestant), and they look it, so I chuckled when Quinn said Mary was a year younger than she is. Chet is so fucking gross – he looks sloppy (does he wear sweats everywhere?), he's a dick, and just … ugh.

 

Quinn, maybe don't jostle Mary's head when she landed on it (bloodlessly) after jumping from a roof.

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Holy crap, I love this show. It's not perfect, but I'm seriously enjoying the heck out of it.

And yeah, I place this all on Shia. What everyone else did was horrible, but the combination of Mary being off her meds and on alcohol caused the ending.

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I somehow managed to miss all of the hype about the last 30 seconds, but even worse than that is the fact that my DVR recording started a bit early, and I accidentally saw Mary jump from the roof while fast forwarding to the start of the episode.  Oy.  

 

I'd say that an Adam/Rachel hookup in imminent.  Practically every episode they've had little "moments," and this episode was no exception.  There was the scene where she asked if he liked anyone else, and he replied "maybe" while looking right at her.  And then there was the scene where she was coaching him how to speak to kids by getting right down to their level.  It's going to happen.  I don't know when, but it's definitely going to happen (unless the show is renewed and they try to drag it out as long as possible).

 

I thought that it was stupid that Jeremy's fiancee seemed jealous about him coming to Rachel's rescue.  What was he supposed to do, let her get attacked by Mary's crazy abusive ex?!

 

I think that some (most) of these people need to take a step back and look at their choices.  Even at the end, when Mary was standing on the roof, Quinn was yelling at everyone to get a camera up there.  This poor lady is contemplating suicide, but we've gotta make sure we get everything on camera!  Awful.

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Something just occurred to me that I don't think has been mentioned yet:

The deal that Chet and Quinn made to promote the new show: anyone think that deal will now crash with the revelation of what's happened with Mary on Everlasting?

They weren't promoting a new show, they were pitching the next season of Everlasting. That's why Quinn was there with Chet. And yes, that deal could very well crash because of what happened with Mary. Even in the meeting the execs said that if Quinn and Chet were able to secure the suitor they were hoping to they'd be on track for renewal, but is it likely that that guy or anyone else with similar prestige is going to wait to be the suitor for the season after the one where a contestant killed herself? So even if the networks don't pull the plug because of Mary alone, a next season for Everlasting is in jeopardy.

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Something just occurred to me that I don't think has been mentioned yet:

 

The deal that Chet and Quinn made to promote the new show:  anyone think that deal will now crash with the revelation of what's happened with Mary on Everlasting?

 

If the deal isn't official, then Chet is royally screwed, and it depends how well Quinn can claim plausible deniability.

 

If Quinn assumes 40% of the liability, then she's going after Rachel with guns blazing, no matter if she herself made the suggestion, because Rachel's fimgerpints are all over it.

 

And Rachel still has to worry about Shia in either event.

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I'm still thinking about this episode which I guess was the intended result - however I keep thinking maybe another reason this episode didn't work for me is because Rachel really should have known better.

It didn't fit to me from everything we've seen of her so far, that Rachel would just willingly and so easily go along with the ex husband idea (even if she thought she was doing it for Mary's sake). When Anna's dad was dying she pulled her aside and told her, even though immediately after she turned to the dark side for that bonus, she showed her struggle and tried to do a little right. She's tried to oppose Quinn before on lesser things - unsuccessfully mostly but still. I think if there was a scene where she had warned Mary her ex was coming or just talked to Mary (as she did with Faith) about having this confrontation to finally get closure...She probably could've have spun it into taking back the power and Mary could have bought it. They set it up in the previous ep that Rachel does want to help people (which was the reason she started the job), I don't think she was doing it completely to help Quinn's bet or get good tv. I think it would have been overall better if Rachel had wavered a little, instead of pushing the peddle and just springing it on Mary. They still could have had Everything else happen (Adams white knight moment, Mary's talk with the ex and the following suicide) but it would have been more true to Rachel's character to have that in there. By no means do I think Rachel's above doing despicable things in the name of Everlasting, but I think this felt a little out of character for me.

I guess I just don't feel they executed the plot in the best way.

Or maybe I'm just dissapointed in Rachel (as I should be), and possibly in the next ep she will also be dissapointed with herself and feeling guilty. Thinking about what could have been done differently and shouldn't have been at all.

Edited by basically
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What was that scene with Adam and Anna? Is Adam really interested in her or playing her? He told her to meet him away from the cameras, so is he serious that he felt something or does he just want to get 'some'?

 

Oh, I think there is no doubt that he is playing Anna. He has a vested interest in making sure that Anna stays interested and thinks of herself as a contender. He has to string her along. But I don't think he really likes her. I don't think he really likes anyone, he's doing the show for cynical reasons, and certainly has no expectation of "finding love". And to keep from getting too bored, he's doing a little producing of his own. Adam loves to think of himself and Rachel as co-conspirators. Bet he was positively gleeful about bringing his rendezvous with Anna to Rachel, like a gift!

 

I got the feeling that Shia was criticizing Rachel so hard because she was spooked by her conversation with Mary's sister and was becoming increasingly alarmed by Mary's behavior.  I think even before Mary got up on the roof, it had already started dawning on her how dangerous it was to that switch Mary's meds.  I think she got scared because she could see things were headed in a bad direction and was terrified that someone's going to figure out what she did.  By shifting all of the blame for Mary's behavior onto the appearance of Mary's ex, she's trying to make sure no one thinks to check her meds,

 

I really don't think Shia expected Mary would react this badly to being off her meds.  I think she was being honest when she told Mary's sister that she seemed like she was having more fun lately.  I think by taking her off the meds, Shia thought Mary might be more wild and fun and competitive, but I don't think she expected she would become seriously unhinged.  But once she started to see the writing on the wall, she knew she needed to start covering her tracks.  You could just see the dread rolling off of her.

I do think Shia was spooked, and we were allowed to see her getting more and more uncomfortable as the episode went on. I don't think she expected things to go south so fast, or to such an extent. I think she just thought fucking with Mary's meds would make things more interesting--she'd be more uninhibited and maybe a little crazy. But  I don't think she was being honest with Mary's sister. She was desperately trying to convince herself that things weren't as bad as they were. She was lying about the drinking. I was surprised that Mary's sister bought it so easily. Shows how much we are willing to swallow when we want to believe something. She really didn't put up much of a fight at all.

 

I'll assume there's a plan, but I have no idea how they get out of this spot. I'm disappointed that they went with the bipolar person commits suicide plot though. I would rather have seen them play out her unraveling and how the show and the players deal with it. I'd like to see how Quinn and Rachel get her off the show and under medical care without the show falling apart.

I really don't like the actress playing Mary either. I wanted that performance to be more nuanced. Also, she has had Botox, right? I kept staring at her forehead because of the odd wrinkle pattern. It was distracting, and makes me reconsider my own desire to get Botox. I'm back to trying to age gracefully I think.

The actress was the real skunk in the rosebush for me, too. She was way too over the top, not subtle. and the botox was distracting. One bad actor among all the good ones really stands out. Rachel and Quinn are excellent and Chet? Oh my god that guy is fabulous! "she's a sad old saggy sack"! with that positively gleeful grin. "get me a bunny!" Gold.

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Does Rachel not like children?  I think the only genuine moment, on Rachel's part, in that scene was when things got uncomfortable when she looked into his eyes.  Otherwise, that whole scene felt like classic Rachel producing.

 

 

Agreed. I don't know Rachel's opinion on children at all. Maybe she doesn't either. She agrees with Adam because she has to be on his side. When the kids came in, she was all sappy smiles and cooing "aDORable". It made me laugh. She's a mirror and she is great at reading a room. She does what will make other people like and trust her.

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I really don't like the actress playing Mary either. I wanted that performance to be more nuanced. Also, she has had Botox, right? I kept staring at her forehead because of the odd wrinkle pattern. It was distracting,

 

I agree.  I too was very distracted by the weird, clumpy shapes her forehead was making when she was trying to express certain emotions. 

 

This show still fascinates me, but I'm not sure I like where they went with this episode.   I didn't really care for the Mary character/actress, so if I rewatch this one, I will probably fast forward through everything but the Rachel and Quinn scenes.

 

I kind of wish this show was a little less dark overall.  It's getting kind of hard to watch, which is a shame since it's so well done,  I adore Shiri Appleby, and most of the rest of the cast is terrific.

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I like the darkness of this show. Its what makes it stand out as different from every other "bachelor show" story. Last week's sappy mess was boring to me and not in line with how they've been handling things. Rachel makes bad decisions that she convinces herself are alright.

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Agreed. I don't know Rachel's opinion on children at all. Maybe she doesn't either. She agrees with Adam because she has to be on his side. When the kids came in, she was all sappy smiles and cooing "aDORable". It made me laugh. She's a mirror and she is great at reading a room. She does what will make other people like and trust her.

My favorite part was when the ex whips out his phone and shows Rachel pictures of his kid and she's awwwing at it because that's exactly what I do in that same situation. Except Rachel is much more convincing at it than I could ever hope to be, I absolutely suck at faking sincerity.

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I totally agree with those of you who say that the constant airing of "don't miss the last 60 seconds" or whatever totally gave away the ending. I think that was a huge mistake on marketing's part because it lessened the impact of the ending. It would have been "OMFG!!!!" chills ending but it was a "so, yeah, saw that coming" ending. Too bad. The show did fine but the network fucked that one up.

 

Seeing the meeting with Chet/Quinn and the execs, I sort of kind of get what she saw in him. He can be very charismatic when he chooses. But he's still a disgusting ass and I wish she could quit him already.

 

While what Quinn and Rachel did in bringing the ex in is horrible because they didn't warn Mary ahead of time, it is NOT the reason she jumped. The reason she jumped is because she was off her meds. She said "I don't want to feel like this anymore" or I'm tired of, or some form of that. That's about being bi-polar, not about fighting with her ex. Sure it was a number of things coming all at once, but it all started with the illegal tampering of her meds. Nothing Rachel and Quinn did was illegal, hell, nothing the ex said was illegal. Replacing her necessary medication with sugar is hugely illegal. Shay needs to be taken down for everyone's safety. She is just plan dangerous. Jay's a moron and reckless, Quinn is immoral and kind of cruel but I don't think even she would have crossed that line.

 

Still don't care about Rachel/Adam. I actually like Adam with Anna. I actually like him best when he's with her.

 

I like that I have no idea where the show is going to go next, unlike Mary's suicide which I saw coming a mile away.

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Maybe someone with a better memory can clarify, but I remember Mary taking a pill in front of someone (Quinn maybe).  If toxicology is done and there is mention of Mary being off her meds, Quinn (or whoever was in that scene) can say that she saw her taking pills.  If they are going to go the route of blaming it on Shay with evidence, I see this the way it going.  To me, it's all on Shay.  Mary would have had different reaction to the day if he meds hadn't been tampered with and no matter how much Shay tries to throw the blame elsewhere, none of what happened would have occurred if Shay hadn't switched her pills.

 

I was very lucky in that I never saw 'wait for the last 30 seconds' promo so the ending did shock me.  At first, I thought they were going to go a different route with the ex by saying he never did hit her and that it was all in Mary's head, but then they had him just...wow he took some really low shots.

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Last week Shia told Quinn "you could talk a perfectly happy person into jumping off a bridge". I wonder if Quinn was remembering that. I got the raging heebie jeebies when I remembered it! 

 

And Chet made sure it was a bunny for a reason. So he could make bunny boiler jokes. He is crass and crude. But I love to hate him. The actor is awesome! 

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Did any one else worry about the bunny getting boiled when Chet brought it out?

Yes, I was afraid that was where they were going.

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I was worried for the rabbit momentarily. Glad they didn't do that!

 

And ITA this is all on Shia. The rest was upsetting but nothing Mary couldn't handle. She was deeply unstable and becoming delusional-- if she hadn't jumped it sure was going to get ugly when she was invariably cut, because she seemed to forget she hadn't been PICKED yet when she was talking about life in the U.K.

 

Shia is a terrible, terrible person. I hope she is found out.

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Maybe someone with a better memory can clarify, but I remember Mary taking a pill in front of someone (Quinn maybe).  If toxicology is done and there is mention of Mary being off her meds, Quinn (or whoever was in that scene) can say that she saw her taking pills. 

I'm pretty sure that was Shia who was the witness to Mary taking her (fake) medication.

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I was worried for the rabbit momentarily. Glad they didn't do that!

Totally thought they'd go bunny boiler too.

Edited by Empress1

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I'm pretty sure that was Shia who was the witness to Mary taking her (fake) medication.

 

 

 

Aw crap :)  there goes my theory.  Oh well.  I really need to pay better attention.

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Did we get confirmation that Mary actually died? 

 

I'm confused.... there appeared to be 3 or 4 kids there, but the only one Mary and her ex talked about was Lulu Belle (or something like that!).  Were all of those kids actually hers?  Because she only seemed to care about one of them.

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Did we get confirmation that Mary actually died? 

 

I'm confused.... there appeared to be 3 or 4 kids there, but the only one Mary and her ex talked about was Lulu Belle (or something like that!).  Were all of those kids actually hers?  Because she only seemed to care about one of them.

 

No, Canada, although that fall onto the cobblestones did not look promising. And it was her sister visiting with her kids, along with Mary's daughter.

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I think the other kids were children of Mary's sister.. It seemed like her sister was their mom and Mary was Lily Belle's mom.

I just realized that the upside of Mary being dead is I don't have to listen to her say "Lily Belle" anymore. Both the name and the way Mary said it got on my nerves.

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Thank you!  I couldn't figure out why Mary was ignoring a lot of her kids.  Makes more sense if they're not hers!

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I guess this episode just made me that much more confident that what Breeda Wool did last week was Emmy-worthy.

 

This show is way too dark for me, and yet I'll stick with it.  Hard to explain why.  I treated it almost like radio this week and did my laundry the entire time without really looking.  It was that crazy.  I love to read about it after and be 'with it' and know all about the show of the summer, LOL.  

 

Mixing extremely dark themes with extremely spotty acting is such a weird cocktail.  It's kind of got elements of a show that could really work  mixed with elements of the most horrible show ever.  And it's that combo that keeps confusing us into coming back for more!

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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I'm still thinking about this episode which I guess was the intended result - however I keep thinking maybe another reason this episode didn't work for me is because Rachel really should have known better.

It didn't fit to me from everything we've seen of her so far, that Rachel would just willingly and so easily go along with the ex husband idea (even if she thought she was doing it for Mary's sake). When Anna's dad was dying she pulled her aside and told her, even though immediately after she turned to the dark side for that bonus, she showed her struggle and tried to do a little right. She's tried to oppose Quinn before on lesser things - unsuccessfully mostly but still. I think if there was a scene where she had warned Mary her ex was coming or just talked to Mary (as she did with Faith) about having this confrontation to finally get closure...She probably could've have spun it into taking back the power and Mary could have bought it. They set it up in the previous ep that Rachel does want to help people (which was the reason she started the job), I don't think she was doing it completely to help Quinn's bet or get good tv. I think it would have been overall better if Rachel had wavered a little, instead of pushing the peddle and just springing it on Mary. They still could have had Everything else happen (Adams white knight moment, Mary's talk with the ex and the following suicide) but it would have been more true to Rachel's character to have that in there. By no means do I think Rachel's above doing despicable things in the name of Everlasting, but I think this felt a little out of character for me.

I guess I just don't feel they executed the plot in the best way.

.

I had a similar reaction to Rachel's behavior in the episode. I don't have a problem with her going along with Quinn's plan (character-wise I mean. Morally, it was obviously a shitty thing to do), but she talked herself into believing she was doing a good thing for Mary way too fast. The fight within Rachel between her morals and the charge she gets out of being able at being good at her job by being morally shady has what has made her such a fascinating character. But last night, she adopted this well-meaning but misguided guise that felt out of place. It didn't fit Rachel very well and was frankly far less interesting to watch.

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I had a similar reaction to Rachel's behavior in the episode. I don't have a problem with her going along with Quinn's plan (character-wise I mean. Morally, it was obviously a shitty thing to do), but she talked herself into believing she was doing a good thing for Mary way too fast. The fight within Rachel between her morals and the charge she gets out of being able at being good at her job by being morally shady has what has made her such a fascinating character. But last night, she adopted this well-meaning but misguided guise that felt out of place. It didn't fit Rachel very well and was frankly far less interesting to watch.

 

The 'talking herself into it' did happen too fast, but I think that is because it's being shown that "Everlasting" does a week's worth of filming and they then plotz out an episode, which we know isn't how it's done. The vast majority of The Bachelor/The Bachelorette and similar shows are in the can long before airing.

 

But I can forgive them that, because it keeps the show moving. And it's also the reason I can forgive Rachel making such a quick decision; this is happening in an incredibly short time. I would guess the time line is MAYBE six days of shooting max? Probably less, because they have to piece the episode together. So she doesn't have time to think through implications; this is "IDEA-GREAT-DO IT" and worry about consequences later.

 

That said, I agree it was not a good decision at all, morally OR ethically (and do NOT get me started on the ethics with Shia - I have a family member who does have a mental illness that requires medication, so watching Shia switch the meds out for some placebo had me seeing RED). I can accept it for this show. Because I'm finding it fascinating.

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The 'talking herself into it' did happen too fast, but I think that is because it's being shown that "Everlasting" does a week's worth of filming and they then plotz out an episode, which we know isn't how it's done. The vast majority of The Bachelor/The Bachelorette and similar shows are in the can long before airing.

 

But I can forgive them that, because it keeps the show moving. And it's also the reason I can forgive Rachel making such a quick decision; this is happening in an incredibly short time. I would guess the time line is MAYBE six days of shooting max? Probably less, because they have to piece the episode together. So she doesn't have time to think through implications; this is "IDEA-GREAT-DO IT" and worry about consequences later.

 

Oh I don't have a problem with her deciding to actually do it so fast.  Since there was a good chance that Mary was going to get sent home sooner rather than later without some kind of producer intervention, Quinn and Rachel either had to bring in the ex that day or not do it at all.  I just hated how quickly Rachel convinced herself that this move was helpful to Mary, as opposed to helpful to the show and Quinn.  If we couldn't see Rachel approach the situation in the calculating but conflicted way we saw her handle Anna's father, I actually would have been happier to see her be more openly callous in her motivation than the ridiculous earnestness they gave us instead.  It just didn't fit Rachel.  It felt more like how Jay would have approached this situation, considering the way he rationalized outing Faith last week, than Rachel.

 

Oh and speaking of outing Faith, how weird is it that Adam's sex tape was never mentioned at all this week?   Apparently the idea of the tape was so juicy that it trumped the "hillbilly lezbo" story line from last week, yet it seems to have no impact.  You would have thought at least it would have come up at the pitch meeting with the network execs.  Even just a throw away line about Adam's shenanigans and the ratings would have better than nothing.

Edited by xqueenfrostine
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I think that some (most) of these people need to take a step back and look at their choices.  Even at the end, when Mary was standing on the roof, Quinn was yelling at everyone to get a camera up there.  This poor lady is contemplating suicide, but we've gotta make sure we get everything on camera!  Awful.

It reminded me of Survivor when Mike Skupin went into a fire head first, and it was taped. Mark Burnett said in an interview that if a cameraperson had stopped taping to help Mike, that cameraperson would have been fired. It's absolutely awful, but that is the mindset of the job. To Quinn's credit, at least she did realize that suicide was a legitimate possibility and was throwing a fit that emergency services wasn't treating their call seriously enough.

 

My favorite part was when the ex whips out his phone and shows Rachel pictures of his kid and she's awwwing at it because that's exactly what I do in that same situation. Except Rachel is much more convincing at it than I could ever hope to be, I absolutely suck at faking sincerity.

You know why Rachel's convincing? Because she doesn't go too far. She only ever said, "What a face." Not "what a cute face," not "what an adorable face," not "what a beautiful angelic face." What a face. No adjective. So you know she was actually thinking "What an ugly face" and said that, only leaving the "ugly" out, and so her voice WAS being sincere...she just didn't say one word. I use that trick all the time, especially when I have ugly newborns shoved in my face that I'm expected to coo over, so I noticed it right off. Parents assume you find their little darlings adorable and so they don't notice if you don't actually say "adorable." Don't say something that you'll choke on, don't lie, and you'll get away with it.

 

I had a similar reaction to Rachel's behavior in the episode. I don't have a problem with her going along with Quinn's plan (character-wise I mean. Morally, it was obviously a shitty thing to do), but she talked herself into believing she was doing a good thing for Mary way too fast. The fight within Rachel between her morals and the charge she gets out of being able at being good at her job by being morally shady has what has made her such a fascinating character. But last night, she adopted this well-meaning but misguided guise that felt out of place. It didn't fit Rachel very well and was frankly far less interesting to watch.

I think you have to keep last week's episode in mind. This thing with Mary didn't happen in a vacuum. Rachel was talking last week about what a huge impact Faith coming out on TV would have, and that it was why Rachel got into TV in the first place. And then, even though that ended up not happening, Rachel really was good all last week: She didn't even seem to think about the fact she would be giving up 10K if Faith came out instead of sexing it up with Adam, and then when she realized how outing Faith would ruin her life she worked to get hold of/destroy the footage in order to keep Faith safe even though she knew it was good TV. So Rachel is back at the Everlasting main set this week, her mind still on the "TV can have a real impact for the better" thing and her heart still kind of aglow from the fact that she was a genuinely good person last week who really prioritized Faith's happiness and well-being over anything else. She was more susceptible to Quinn's bullshit that this would be a very powerful thing for Mary that would give closure blah blah, because she had reconnected with her dream of using TV to do good.

 

Seeing what happened to Mary this week, it made it even more of a miracle that Faith got through last week unscathed and with her girlfriend, even. But this is a show of extremes - we went from a brief period of the most happiness the show's ever had to the most darkness the show's ever had.

Edited by Black Knight
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I think you have to keep last week's episode in mind. This thing with Mary didn't happen in a vacuum. Rachel was talking last week about what a huge impact Faith coming out on TV would have, and that it was why Rachel got into TV in the first place. And then, even though that ended up not happening, Rachel really was good all last week: She didn't even seem to think about the fact she would be giving up 10K if Faith came out instead of sexing it up with Adam, and then when she realized how outing Faith would ruin her life she worked to get hold of/destroy the footage in order to keep Faith safe even though she knew it was good TV. So Rachel is back at the Everlasting main set this week, her mind still on the "TV can have a real impact for the better" thing and her heart still kind of aglow from the fact that she was a genuinely good person last week who really prioritized Faith's happiness and well-being over anything else. She was more susceptible to Quinn's bullshit that this would be a very powerful thing for Mary that would give closure blah blah, because she had reconnected with her dream of using TV to do good.

 

But for as much as Rachel was raving about the impact Faith coming out could have on the culture, she never lost sight of what it coming out too soon might mean for Faith.  And that's where she lost me this week, and why it didn't feel real.  Even on the high of getting the beautiful footage of Faith coming out, she didn't lose her head.  She immediately recognized what coming out to her entire town before Faith and Amy were truly ready could do to them, and saw that as much more important than any sort of positive effect a heartwarming coming out story might have on the culture.  Rachel didn't go through that with Mary.  She took away Mary's choice, which is so different than how she handled Faith. 

 

And also, her logic was such bullshit that I can't believe he was able to make herself buy it. She's old enough to remember Jerry Springer.  Surprising people with their abusers in a place where they are not in control (and I'm not talking about Mary's mental illness, I mean the lack of control all of the contestants are living under) neither produces healing moments or meaningful TV.  We can't even blame that warped logic on Quinn either, as Quinn's spin was all about using the ex as means to manipulate Adam into keeping Mary on the show.  Everything beyond that was all Rachel.  

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The actress was the real skunk in the rosebush for me, too. She was way too over the top, not subtle. and the botox was distracting. One bad actor among all the good ones really stands out. Rachel and Quinn are excellent and Chet? Oh my god that guy is fabulous! "she's a sad old saggy sack"! with that positively gleeful grin. "get me a bunny!" Gold.

 

I agree, Pepper and well said.   The guy who plays Chet is excellent.  

 

Mary's autopsy will show she was not taking her meds and drinking.  Her sister was there and will tell authorities that she saw her sister's behavior knew what was happening. I think this will put a bow on it.  It will be interesting to see what Shia does in the wake of her actions. 

 

This show is so good I trust they will do a good job with the aftermath.  

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You know why Rachel's convincing? Because she doesn't go too far. She only ever said, "What a face." Not "what a cute face," not "what an adorable face," not "what a beautiful angelic face." What a face. No adjective. So you know she was actually thinking "What an ugly face" and said that, only leaving the "ugly" out, and so her voice WAS being sincere...she just didn't say one word. I use that trick all the time, especially when I have ugly newborns shoved in my face that I'm expected to coo over, so I noticed it right off. Parents assume you find their little darlings adorable and so they don't notice if you don't actually say "adorable." Don't say something that you'll choke on, don't lie, and you'll get away with it.

If she'd said the baby was "breathtaking" I would have known someone who writes this stuff is a Seinfeld fan.

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You know why Rachel's convincing? Because she doesn't go too far. She only ever said, "What a face." Not "what a cute face," not "what an adorable face," not "what a beautiful angelic face." What a face. No adjective. So you know she was actually thinking "What an ugly face" and said that, only leaving the "ugly" out, and so her voice WAS being sincere...she just didn't say one word. I use that trick all the time, especially when I have ugly newborns shoved in my face that I'm expected to coo over, so I noticed it right off.

I like kids but don't like babies, especially when they're under about six months old, so when someone shows me a picture of a newborn, my go-to is to talk about its size. "S/he's so little!" or "What a bruiser!" if the baby is big (my coworker had a ten-pounder). Rachel doesn't seem like a kid person, so I thought the story she told Adam was true.

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But for as much as Rachel was raving about the impact Faith coming out could have on the culture, she never lost sight of what it coming out too soon might mean for Faith.  And that's where she lost me this week, and why it didn't feel real.  Even on the high of getting the beautiful footage of Faith coming out, she didn't lose her head.  She immediately recognized what coming out to her entire town before Faith and Amy were truly ready could do to them, and saw that as much more important than any sort of positive effect a heartwarming coming out story might have on the culture.  Rachel didn't go through that with Mary.  She took away Mary's choice, which is so different than how she handled Faith. 

Well, yes and no. Yes, she backed off on a TV coming-out for Faith. But, she pushed Faith hard to acknowledge her sexuality and her love for Amy to herself, and that went very well. Faith is no longer confused and is now happy and with the woman she loves. Pushing someone to acknowledge their sexuality, even privately, when they have not acknowledged it to themselves is also inherently quite risky, but in Faith's case it ended up working out really well and Faith is now way better off than she was before. Like Faith, Mary was clearly carrying around a ton of baggage that she needed to address and resolve. Unlike Faith, Mary's medications had been screwed with. I'm not here to defend what Rachel did with Mary, but I do see where there were enough similarities that Rachel could talk herself into thinking she was doing a good thing for Mary. It was never going to work out as well as it did with Faith, but it also wouldn't have turned out anywhere near this disastrously if Shia hadn't switched Mary's meds out.

 

Someone said upthread that Rachel is the worst kind of person, someone who thinks she's good. I disagree with that. Rachel knows she's not a good person. Her problem, perversely, is that she is trying to be a better person, and it's affecting her judgment in a different way than when she's just an asshole producer. In both cases it leads her to make some risky/poor choices. The difference is that as an asshole producer she's familiar with what the pitfalls are, but she's not so familiar with what the pitfalls are when she's trying to make decisions from a "good" place. If she weren't so new to the latter, she might have realized that this wasn't something that should be done with Mary. She fell into the mistake of thinking that intentions matter more than they really do, of conflating intentions with outcomes, when in actual fact intentions have almost nothing to do with outcomes. But she's spent so long feeling guilty about having bad intentions and wants to encourage herself to have good intentions. Being told that this would be good for Mary was like catnip to her. She can improve another woman's life just like she did Faith's! Quinn knew where Rachel was emotionally and produced her.

 

Remember, we're not talking about someone who has her shit together. Rachel is a psychological and emotional mess. Poor decision-making goes with the territory.

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You know why Rachel's convincing? Because she doesn't go too far. She only ever said, "What a face."

I like kids but don't like babies, especially when they're under about six months old, so when someone shows me a picture of a newborn, my go-to is to talk about its size. "S/he's so little!" or "What a bruiser!" if the baby is big (my coworker had a ten-pounder). Rachel doesn't seem like a kid person, so I thought the story she told Adam was true.

"What a bruiser." Ha! Love that one. I also like kids but not babies, and when someone shows me an unsolicited picture of a baby (for some reason, I hate looking at pictures/videos of other people's offspring--see my posts in the "Pet Peeves" thread), I usually find some physical feature to comment on: "Look at those eyes," "Look at those hands," "All of that hair!" If the baby is cute (IMO, of course), I'll say that, too.

 

I'll have to use Rachel's "What a face" line. Totally ambiguous. I love it.

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I just realized that the upside of Mary being dead is I don't have to listen to her say "Lily Belle" anymore. Both the name and the way Mary said it got on my nerves.

ITA.  I was having traumatic flashbacks from being a kid and my aunt calling me DeLurker-Belle.  Granted, she said it with affection and this is a woman who never even called her own children with terms of endearment, but it drove me insane.  Plus, it continued well into the high school years so my friends took much joy in torturing me with it.

 

I hadn't realized the ex was tied up when he was in the trailer.  That seems unlawful - false imprisonment?

 

I actually felt a bit bad for Adam on the family date.  Not his cup o'tea.

 

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the odd forehead lines or whatever on Mary.  They bugged.  I know she can't help it - I get "concentration face" when I am focused on something.  My eyebrows furrow or something and it is totally beyond my control.  That's not to say it is pretty though.

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ITA.  I was having traumatic flashbacks from being a kid and my aunt calling me DeLurker-Belle.

Now I'm fascinated. Do you really have a double first name? And did you grow up with your aunt, which would explain why your friends knew her name for you?

 

I actually felt a bit bad for Adam on the family date.  Not his cup o'tea.

But he and Rachel are so good at faking it. I could see them together at a friend's baby-shower, ooh-ing and ahh-ing with everyone else when the mom opened her cute baby gits, all the while sneaking bored looks at each other.

 

On The Bachelor, does the suitor have to propose to the last woman standing? And is there a contractual obligation for how long the relationship has to last? Because Adam doesn't seem to like or love any of these women as potential romantic partners. Except for Grace and her talented mouth.

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I hadn't realized the ex was tied up when he was in the trailer.  That seems unlawful - false imprisonment?

 

Not necessarily - it might've been a condition that Mary set before she would talk to him, as he demanded.  Or, it could've been a security condition set by the guards that were outside the trailer where he was tied up, because he'd already exhibited violent tendencies.

 

While the ex was invited on to the set and the ex could have been expected to be violent, given his history as the show knew about it, the show has a liability concern if he hurts someone (as he did when he belted Adam).

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On The Bachelor, does the suitor have to propose to the last woman standing? And is there a contractual obligation for how long the relationship has to last? Because Adam doesn't seem to like or love any of these women as potential romantic partners. Except for Grace and her talented mouth.

There have been previous seasons of The Bachelor where he didn't outright propose to the winner, but yes I think they have to continue the "relationship" for a period of time but that's kept under wraps. I don't think we've had a case where there was no winner at all.

 

I think Adam likes Anna well enough. Given that he's getting serviced by Grace regularly, there was no need for him to contrive a tryst with her unless he was at least physically attracted to her.

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I don't watch the franchise but hasn't there been a season where the guy didn't pick anyone?

topanga, I was talking about the show with a friend who hasn't seen it and I made the same comment about Adam not liking any of the women, "except maybe the one who's been sucking his dick since they all got there."

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I don't think we've had a case where there was no winner at all.

 

Actually, Brad Womack ended up rejecting both of his final two on Season 11. (He came back to be the Bachelor again in Season 15, where he did pick someone.) 

 

It would be interesting in Adam went that route. Though after what went down this week I, like a lot of you, have a hard time seeing how this season of Everlasting could possibly continue.

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I think the "last 30 seconds" thing was a spoof during the spoof. How often do we see things like that on "real" reality shows? Am I giving them too much credit?

 

I also thought that we would discover that Mary was actually the one who broke her daughter's arm, and that was why the hubby hit her (not that it makes it right) and why he reminded her she said, "I'm sorry." Definitely wrong there, I guess.

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