S03.E04: More Than Words

[LeGrandElephant]

If Lena, as a child or teenager, was there when it happened, why wouldn't she have told her father? I thought that it was something her mother had told her years later, or something. I don't know, the whole timeline and backstory and ages of Lena and Nate don't really seem to make sense, so whatever.

I agree Lena had every right to be upset but it would have been better to have Lena, her mother, her father, and Nate, step into another room to hash it out instead of doing it in front of the new girlfriend out of the blue.

I also thought he was going to apologize and say he had a lot of anger at 17 but he's grown up.

Edited July 2, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[Perfect Xero]

I did think that Nate actually was trying to apologize for the past, then chickened out at the last second and made it about Christmas instead. Otherwise it was just a very weird and awkwardly phrased scene for the sake of dramatic tension.

I thought something seemed off about the timeline, I was a bit surprised that he was 17 when it happened, I felt like Stef's line in the Christmas episode about how young Nate had been when it happened implied that he'd been more of a "tween" maybe in the 12-14 age range rather than an almost an adult 17 year old.

And not that it excuses Nate at all, but the whole timeline makes Lena's dad look like a pretty lousy father to him, even while he was, apparently, being a great father to Lena. Which is something that I think might be thematically interesting to explore on a show centered around the Foster system and what makes a family.

[ShadowFacts]

I agree that the dad sending Nate away at the time because he was too difficult, and banishing him again now, doesn't make him look great.  I was trying to get at this above, that this business of feelings of abandonment can take many forms, not just by death or drug addiction or imprisonment.  Second families can seem to displace the "original" kids, and there is probably as much of that at play with Nate as the racial slur.  I do hope they revisit it, both as it relates to that family and the Fosters.  Brandon hasn't shown rancor to any of his adopted or foster siblings, but he has acted out, and now potentially his father (who he didn't have to share) will have a new kid in the house. 

[Ljohnson1987]

The way that they swept the racism and hate under the rug was annoying. Glad that Lena's mom is back. I like her. I could do without the brother though. Also, Stephen Collins played Lena's dad, so I doubt he'll be back.

[rue721]

Jude's IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE WEARING? when Connor showed up made him again sound like a granny. He seems uncharacteristically surly lately, while Connor remains uber aborable and totally enthusiastic. The Gavin is playing Connor in the most endearing in love cute and totally open way, and Hayden is playing Jude like he really doesn't want to be there. I am starting to wonder if it's an actor resistance problem rather than a show choice to make Jude suddenly so un-Judicornly since the couple stopped hiding.

 

Maybe Jude just feels weird/nervous/ambivalent about commitment. He's only just been adopted, and wasn't he still hoarding food under his bed last year or so? I don't really expect him to be as open (and as openly committed) as Connor is right now, because he's coming from a different place. I don't think it's that he has an issue with Connor or doesn't want to be his boyfriend, I think he's just more cautious and insecure about commitment and change in general.

 

You don't let someone in to your house so you can carry out an ambush of that person in front of their lover.  To ambush someone and commit a shaming upon that person is sickening.  The person who ends up humiliated the most is Nate's girlfriend.  Lena's Father's apology to her is meaningless.  You have carried out a humiliation.    

 

I felt terrible for Nate's girlfriend, and can't imagine their ride home in the car (tbh I would have liked to see that!). It was also just not pragmatic for Lena to confront Nate in front of her or in front of Mr. Adams, because that increased the chance that he would get defensive and escalate. How was he going to be all "mea culpa" about using the n-word toward his stepmother in front of not only his girlfriend, but in front of his father? His father apparently sent him away *without even knowing about this whole debacle* and Nate's been more-or-less estranged from the family since then iIrc. And after twenty years, when he's finally invited back into the fold, Lena immediately comes out with all this "And Nate did WORSE STUFF THAN YOU EVEN KNEW, Dad" -- of course Nate was going to freak out, because what Lena was saying was a gigantic threat to his relationship with his dad and to his relationship with his girlfriend. (Not only did Lena bring up the n-word incident, she also "corrected" the balloon story in a way that made Nate look like a bully).

 

I mean, I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone using slurs and thought that it was fair for Lena to bring up her feelings and look out for herself/put herself first. But at the same time, in Nate's place, I would have been freaking out. He thought he was reuniting with his family, and introducing them to his girlfriend-maybe-eventually-wife, but Lena keeps bringing up that he's malicious and a bigot and all this terrible stuff and basically destroying his relationships with them all over again. I mean, he just lost his dad again at that dinner, and maybe his girlfriend, too. Even if he's a terrible person, that's a big deal and pretty sad. 

 

Honestly, I don't think that Lena even thought about how tenuous her dad and Nate's relationship might be, or whether this would destroy his relationship with his family and/or his girlfriend. Her mom tried to warn her, but she was busy being pissed off on her own behalf. Which was fair imo. But in some ways, the stakes were much higher for Nate than they were for Lena, because his relationship with his parent and his SO was at stake whereas hers wasn't, so of course he freaked out when cornered.

 

I don't think that it really occurred to Lena that Nate might double down or stand by calling her mom the n-word, though. I think that she was more worried about whether any apology or contrition would be sincere. I think she was thinking the "big talk" would be about what Nate's apology meant, not whether one was warranted. Anyway, I wouldn't have handled things like Lena did, and it was hurtful to other people involved, but tbh I thought it was ballsy of her to just put her feelings out there like that, and to refuse to sweep things under the rug for everyone else's sake. I thought that was growth on Lena's part.

 

I think it's OK that all the characters danced around saying "that word" rather than just saying it flat out. I'm not sure which character would have just said it flat out and when/to whom anyway. Lena sure wouldn't. Lena's mom considered herself the only black person there aside from Nate's girlfriend (who didn't know any of these people afaik), so I would think she'd be pretty loathe to say it, too. I think it's normal not to want to refer to yourself by a slur that applies to no other people around you (or just to one stranger). And everyone else was white (and presumably not completely terrible) and was not going to be the one to throw the actual n-word into play. So tbh I actually thought it was pretty realistic not to have anyone say it. And frankly, I'm happy nobody did, because I don't want to hear it. It's not like I'm sad that a chance goes by for people to use it and nobody does, lol.

 

I hope that they continue with this storyline and bring Lena's family back, because I find all of them and their relationships really interesting.

Edited July 10, 2015 by rue721

[Eeksquire]

 

His father apparently sent him away *without even knowing about this whole debacle* and Nate's been more-or-less estranged from the family since then iIrc.

I don't know that Lena's father "sent [Nate] away" - I think the circumstances are more ambiguous than that (which is one of the things this show does so well and why it's infuriating when they get other, seemingly easier things, so terribly wrong).  When he talked about what happened with Brandon, I think he said something like, 'Nate decided to leave early and I wasn't good about keeping up with him after that.'  I think it's fair to assume that the perceptions of what, exactly, happened vary differently depending on which of the four individuals (or five, including Lena's father's first wife) was asked to explain what happened.

[ShadowFacts]

I don't know that Lena's father "sent [Nate] away" - I think the circumstances are more ambiguous than that (which is one of the things this show does so well and why it's infuriating when they get other, seemingly easier things, so terribly wrong).  When he talked about what happened with Brandon, I think he said something like, 'Nate decided to leave early and I wasn't good about keeping up with him after that.'  I think it's fair to assume that the perceptions of what, exactly, happened vary differently depending on which of the four individuals (or five, including Lena's father's first wife) was asked to explain what happened.

I don't remember exact dialogue either, but the dad did say he should have gone after full custody, so that is some evidence that he himself feels his actions were akin to abandonment.