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S01.E05: Truth

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I agree with you. I had no problem with him stopping. If women can change their minds, even after they initiate, so can men.

If he had stopped because he suddenly remembered he had a fiancée and felt guilty, I don't think it would have bothered me that he aborted their encounter. It was the stopping and cutting Rachel down afterward that bugged me.

 

 

Agreed. It's not the stopping that bothered me. It was one, him pulling that crap in the first place, and then two, basically blaming her for his actions afterwards. She wasn't coming on to him, he's the one who pounced on her. So to then give her shit was ridiculous. And he said nothing about his fiancée, only about Rachel and her crazy.

 

 

One thing I have a question about is the reverse psychology early in the episode to get Adam to choose Faith by asking him to dump her. Adam's play fighting with Faith seemed genuine, and IIRC from last week, Rachel's disappointed/annoyed with him not the other way around. So why would Rachel need to use reverse psychology? Why wouldn't she just say tell Adam that Faith's a fan favorite? He would look good if he picked her.

 

Maybe she thought he was annoyed with her because of their last interaction at the end of Wife? She called him a whore and they didn't part on the greatest of terms. They both seemed to have gotten over that confrontation fairly quickly, but it might have been awkward if that was the first time they had spoke since it happened. Also Adam insinuated that he didn't necessarily trust Rachel to do what was best for Adam over what was best for the show, so he might not trust her that picking Faith was really a win win for him and not just spin from Rachel. Rachel might have thought he'd be in the mood to spite her.

 

I think she actually just pulled the reverse-psychology maneuver, because she knows he doesn't like to follow the rules. And we know that too, he's said it time & again, and proven it as well (note his continuing with Grace's secret blow jobs. I think it's about more than just getting lucky). By telling him to cut Faith, she guarantees he's going to keep her around just to spite her, not for malicious reasons, but because rebelling is just his natural inclination.

 

Plus, I've always been one to reject the "she/you can change him" fairy tale plot, which is how an Adam-Rachel relationship might evolve unless the show went really, really, dark with them. Which isn't to say Rachel-Jeremy is a good end-game... since, hmm, maybe Jeremy's point in the barn is that he didn't want to be thrust back in the "he can change her" scenario... just that I'd prefer to get more of them and less of Rachel-Adam before both relationships (most likely) im/explode.

See, I don't think of Rachel/Adam as a "change the other person" fairy tale story. It's not about trying to change who someone is, it's about finding someone to be your best self with, and I think there's something about those two that makes that happen. And I think this week really showcased that, in the way that they put their manipulations to use for the greater good (the greater good), and both went to bat hard for Faith. I think that on their own, they're kind of shitty people, but together they're less terrible. They both call each other out on their shit, hopefully leading to endgame of making him man up and be more responsible instead of just whining about how no one takes him seriously, and making her lighten up and embrace who she is without succumbing to her mother's manipulations. They're not going to become different people. They're just going to be (slightly) better versions of who they already are.

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I don't think Adam and Rachel are anything special together. Just because they're connecting in the highly artificial atmosphere that is Everlasting doesn't mean they'll make it outside the show.

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Isn't Rachel just lying to Quinn about Faith? In the first episode, she told Adam to dump the evil contestant and keep Faith to piss off Quinn. Did she tell him to dump Faith later?

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I think the show is being way too PC about how nice they are to want to withhold her coming out interview. If they were really nice they would not have started asking her about it on camera. It really did not ring true for me that they would be sweetly protective of her when they kept another contestant from knowing her father was on his deathbed.

 

Rachel wanted to tell Anna about her father, but Quinn pressured Rachel into keep her mouth shut. The difference here is that Rachel was on her own and in charge. They even had Jeremy (I believe it was Jeremy) mention the difference in her behavior. She seems to have a bit of a history of letting others control her against her better instincts, most notably her mother and Quinn. She struggles with her ability to manipulate people so easily, and she recognizes from her own past what it's like to be manipulated. She seems to use the show to give up having to take responsibility for her own actions, transferring that to her bosses. But when left to her own devices, when she's the one who has to make the tough calls, she has a tendency towards listening to her better urges.

 

This episode struck me as having a bit of a theme of partially realized liberations. Faith and Amy were able to acknowledge their feelings for one another and start a slow coming out process. But while Faith thought she was ready to fully recognize herself, the closet door had to close back a bit, although it certainly wasn't slammed shut, but rather left slightly ajar. Rachel was able to actually demonstrate empathy without interference. Mary has a different type of liberation. Being able to speak up about her past is good, but the end of the episode demonstrates a false liberation, a destructive one that she thinks is necessary in order to continue on in the game.

 

I feel that the writers cheated a little bit by keeping the decision regarding Faith's confession out of Quinn's hands. They needed the drama that Faith's secret might come out, but that would have veered Quinn way too far into villain territory, so they use Chet even though he hasn't been shown as actively involved in the production of the show at all. I get it, it would have been a hard sell that Quinn wouldn't run with it just as gleefully as Chet, so she's either watered down or she reaches a place that's really hard to come back from. I see you cheating, Show, but I forgive you this once. Just don't make a habit of it.

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I thought the actor playing Faith was really brilliant.

 

The lines in the "Previously, on UnREAL" clip at the top of the episode were so mega cheesy.  It was just exposition.  I think one of Shia's lines was literally "That's Chet (Whatever).  Creator of Everlasting.  Big Kahuna."  OMG.

 

Shira Appleby also does much better than the dialogue would lend her.  Why was Craig Bierko hired for this? 

Edited by Ms Blue Jay

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I feel that the writers cheated a little bit by keeping the decision regarding Faith's confession out of Quinn's hands. They needed the drama that Faith's secret might come out, but that would have veered Quinn way too far into villain territory, so they use Chet even though he hasn't been shown as actively involved in the production of the show at all. I get it, it would have been a hard sell that Quinn wouldn't run with it just as gleefully as Chet, so she's either watered down or she reaches a place that's really hard to come back from. I see you cheating, Show, but I forgive you this once. Just don't make a habit of it.

I think putting Chet in the driver seat on the decision whether or not to out Faith was actually about how the writers wanted to use Jay, not about keeping Quinn from doing something the audience might not forgive her for. I think given their blow out last week that there's no way Jay would have volunteered the tape of Faith's confession if Quinn was the one who had tasked him to find something juicy. He's already lost faith in the idea that Quinn might mentor him the way she does Rachel and help him get ahead in his career, so he probably wouldn't have considered the possible reward that she could offer worth the crisis on conscience. Quinn closed that door when she tried to fire Jay over something petty.

But Jay still sees Chet as a possible pathway for his ambition, and last week they clearly set up that Jay is actively looking for ways to please him in hopes that Chet will take him under his wing. That set up made Jay's conflict believable. Deep down I think he knows what he did is terrible and even feels guilty, maybe even ashamed, about it but did it anyway because he's just that desperate to get ahead.

Edited by xqueenfrostine
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I thought the almost-sex was pretty hot and wouldn't have minded them finishing and seeing what it did to Rachel. Esp because I don't believe Jeremy has any intention of ending the engagement with the fiancee. I also thought it was telling that he stopped because of his fear of how it would affect HIM and not how it would affect the woman he's engaged to. That video (and I'm not sure that the fiancee has seen all of it that we saw last night) shows how much more invested he was in Rachel than he told her.

I liked how this episode showed there is some good left in Rachel and Adam. And it was timely, given all the SCOTUS stuff.

We're on to next week!

 

ETA - I think it would have been interesting symmetry for Adam to have walked in on Rachel/Jeremy only to have her end the romp.

Edited by VartanFan
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I wonder if Constance and Craig chuckle about their time together on Boston Legal? Constance looks the same for the most part, but Craig has really arm-wrestled against Father Time.

I was browsing UnREAL-related accounts on Twitter a few weeks back and someone trolled him for the way he looked.  He responded that it fit the character.  And in some of his more recent pics, he looks much better--more like the Bierko I first saw on Wings way back in the day.  So I don't know if his appearance is character related or if he just got in better shape after filming but he may be winning the war against time as well.

So why would Rachel need to use reverse psychology? Why wouldn't she just say tell Adam that Faith's a fan favorite? He would look good if he picked her.

That was unclear.  Because I do think she could tell him what he should do but he also has a history of going the opposite way.  Faith is still on the show because of his desire to rebel.

 

 

 

Agreed. It's not the stopping that bothered me. It was one, him pulling that crap in the first place, and then two, basically blaming her for his actions afterwards. She wasn't coming on to him, he's the one who pounced on her. So to then give her shit was ridiculous. And he said nothing about his fiancée, only about Rachel and her crazy.

He was absolutely a jerk for not even thinking of his fiancee but I didn't feel like he was wrong for being honest about why he stopped, especially given their messy past. 

 

 

And I think this week really showcased that, in the way that they put their manipulations to use for the greater good (the greater good), and both went to bat hard for Faith.  I think that on their own, they're kind of shitty people, but together they're less terrible.

I don't know that they are less terrible together.  Away from Quinn, Rachel pulled herself back from the ledge and decided not to ruin Faith's life.  Adam was also decent to Faith but I don't feel like that's out of character for him.  He's selfish, desperate and ambitious but, other than not really intending to fall for any of them, he has overall been decent to the contestants. 

 

They may have an equal shitty/decent human being ratio, but I actually think Rachel's worse.  

 

They both call each other out on their shit, hopefully leading to endgame of making him man up and be more responsible instead of just whining about how no one takes him seriously, and making her lighten up and embrace who she is without succumbing to her mother's manipulations. They're not going to become different people. They're just going to be (slightly) better versions of who they already are.

She already doesn't succumb to her mother's manipulations.  And speaking of lightening up, she looked like a whole different person in that video of her and Jeremy at the beach so it appears as if she did have lightness in her life. 

 

If Rachel and Adam are a match, it's in their willingness to be miserable and push the line in pursuit of career goals.  I actually don't think either Jeremy or Adam are a good match for her.  Not on paper and not in the chem department (I find both pairings just okay on that front).

Edited by Irlandesa
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OH HOW I HAVE MISSED YOU, SHOW. Binging the first four episodes was such a mistake, my love for this show kind of crept up on me. So happy for a new episode, finally! Also, looks like the strategy of putting those episodes OnDemand may have worked out: http://headlineplanet.com/home/2015/06/30/ratings-unreal-surges-to-series-high-devious-maids-also-improves/

 

The Faith story was so wonderfully played by all involved and another great example of the twisted teamwork that Adam and Rachel have.

 

The Quinn/Chet storyline was so blahh....wish they'd be over it already.

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The darkness of the show really paid off this week with Faith's storyline, because I really was not at all sure how that would work out. On a different show I would've had no doubt that ultimately Faith would be okay, but on this show? I was terrified for her. Her storyline was adorable and yet I watched it with a pit in my stomach the whole time, just waiting for the trapdoor to give way under her. It felt like such a miracle when she actually got through unscathed and even got her girl to boot.

 

So, well done, Show. You create genuine suspense. And now I will start worrying about Mary...

 

Also, Rachel's scenes with Faith is the first time I've really, really liked her. I've always found her interesting, and I'm not someone who needs characters to be likable - I only ask that they be interesting - but all the same, that storyline really made me like Rachel. It gives you an idea of who Rachel could be if she got away from Everlasting.

 

I was amused by the meta comment by Chet about how trans is now and gay is so two years ago, because right up until Faith's "best friend" appeared onscreen, I thought Faith's secret, and therefore her hesitancy about sleeping with Adam, was going to be that she's trans.

 

I also liked Josh Kelly a lot on OLTL, but really, Jeremy is not in his wheelhouse. He can be extremely charming, but that charm comes through humor and lightness. Jeremy's too serious and wound very tight, and watching JK in the role is like watching a burned out lightbulb. I was excited to see him in the cast, but he's the wrong actor for this part.

Edited by Black Knight
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Loved every episode so far, but last night really shined. The story was touching and the actors really sold it - I really felt for Faith and her struggle was beautifully played. Rachel was completely likable - I've actually always found her likable but here she was able to show a lighter more truly caring side and I loved her helping Faith.

The chemistry between Adam and Rachel has been there from the beginning. I've been up in the air with which pairing I liked, because I do see chemistry and know there is something deeper with Jeremy and Rachel that we aren't seeing yet. But I have to admit Adam and Rachel are way more fun, they play off eachother so well, they fell into this sort of friendship, but there is a spark between them and a gradual flirtation that's definitely leading somewhere. And I love a good build up.

And that's where my issue with Jeremy and Rachel is - the build up. Obviously lingering feelings here on both ends. You could see that in the pilot episode. For me though the barn scene happened way too fast, and worst of all ended with Jeremy putting Rachel down when she didn't even start it. It just didn't feel right. I was more excited by the almost kiss at the end with Rachel and Adam - that scene did more for me and nothing even happened.

I can't say anything bad about Constance ever - I loved how vulnerable she was in the final showdown with the "love you babe" cast and Chet. You could see how much it hurt her to reveal that. And I hope it was a turning point for Chet - he's more involved in the show towards the end so maybe it was the wake up call he needed.

Can't wait for next week!

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I don't have much to say on this episode that hasn't already been said better by several posters upthread, but I too loved this ep. Faith (both storyline and actress) was lovely, and Adam & Rachel's "baby bird" moment were all the more hot for them actually not doing anything. I really liked Rachel admitting that she thought of him as a friend (besides the fact that she obviously finds him attractive) because it gives depth to their relationship - something that's sorely lacking in the way she and Jeremy are acting around each other. Weirdly enough this episode is the first time I've bought Rachel's feelings for Jeremy; her wank material was romance, not porn (I don't think she got off on the first video).

 

Jeremy, however, is a bit of troll: Men, of course, have just as much right to call things off during, but it was the way he blamed Rachel afterwards that made him a douche.

 

See, I don't think of Rachel/Adam as a "change the other person" fairy tale story. It's not about trying to change who someone is, it's about finding someone to be your best self with, and I think there's something about those two that makes that happen. And I think this week really showcased that, in the way that they put their manipulations to use for the greater good (the greater good), and both went to bat hard for Faith. I think that on their own, they're kind of shitty people, but together they're less terrible. They both call each other out on their shit, hopefully leading to endgame of making him man up and be more responsible instead of just whining about how no one takes him seriously, and making her lighten up and embrace who she is without succumbing to her mother's manipulations. They're not going to become different people. They're just going to be (slightly) better versions of who they already are.

I'm all aboard the good ship Adam/Rachel now. And I'm racking my brain to figure out how that's going to work, if UnREAL gets a season two. (Coincidentally I'm really happy the ratings have gone up). Is Adam going to manipulate his way into a producing title?

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I did not expect to like this show the way I do. I don't love it, but I'm pleasantly surprised by it. I think it's the quality of some of the acting, the unusual topic, and confirmation of what I always suspected goes on behind the scenes of competitive reality TV. I don't know if it could sustain my interest a second season.

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I read in an interview that Craig Bierko purposefully gained weight for this role.

I thought they wrapped up the ownership of the show storyline a little too easily and quickly.

I'm amazed that there were two scenes of a woman masturbating on Lifetime! I have no problem with them. Just didn't expect to see them there!

Edited by Cramps
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Isn't Rachel just lying to Quinn about Faith? In the first episode, she told Adam to dump the evil contestant and keep Faith to piss off Quinn. Did she tell him to dump Faith later?

I thought the reverse psychology statement to Quinn and production was to throw them off the scent that Rachel and Adam had determined way back when to keep Faith.

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I thought the reverse psychology statement to Quinn and production was to throw them off the scent that Rachel and Adam had determined way back when to keep Faith.

That's completely the way I read that scene, too. I thought Rachel was basically lying to Quinn, because Quinn cannot fathom why Adam would like to keep Faith. Adam-Faith-Rachel is an interesting dynamic: At first I absolutely believe that Adam kept Faith as a sort of "screw you" to Quinn (instigated by Rachel), then he kept her as a sort of unspoken connection to Rachel, and now, with the "baby bird"-comment, it has become text.

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Jeremy, however, is a bit of troll: Men, of course, have just as much right to call things off during, but it was the way he blamed Rachel afterwards that made him a douche.

Yeah--it's not that he called a halt to the sex, it's the way he behaved after calling a halt to the sex.  Adding that into the way he's behaved overall?  If I'm supposed to believe he actually cared /cares for her beyond a superficial level, I need some things answered.

 

It's been a few months, but not very long.  He got back together and engaged during that time?  How ex was the ex when Rachel and he were together?  Why did he evidently lie to his girlfriend/fiancee when they reunited?  Was he honest with Rachel when they were together, because he's okay with not being honest to the person he's involved with?  

 

He called.  Goody for him. Gold stars and a shiny trophy. However, a person he's supposed to have cared about had a breakdown that could end her career and result in charges.  He called a few times?  Did he try going to her apartment?  After all, Rachel had a roommate--it's not like no one would answer, ever.  Most people would be more concerned about someone they're just friendly with, let alone someone they truly care for or love.  

 

Why is everything always Rachel's fault to him?  Is there more backstory there, where she did him wrong in some way (besides not calling him back while having a breakdown, because that's got some extenuating circumstances qualifiers), because if there's not a backstory where she did something awful to him, why does he--and she--seem to think it's okay that he consistently blames her for problems in their interaction?

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Rachel had been designated as the fuck-up in her dynamic with Jeremy, a role she probably got because she's more obviously screwed up than he is. So now she blames herself and Jeremy blames her for anything and everything, when in reality people and relationships are far more complicated than that. I mean, I agree that Rachel is not capable of having a healthy relationship right now with anyone - she is unhealthy and unhealthy people cannot have healthy relationships - but that does not mean every single problem is completely and only her fault. She needs better self-esteem and he needs to take responsibility for himself. I hope the situation with Faith helps Rachel's self-esteem.

 

Rachel had a scene with Adam where she asked him why he didn't do what she told him to do, so I do think she was telling the truth to Quinn about the whole reverse psychology thing. Rachel didn't want Faith to be eliminated in the first ceremony because she knew what Adam said about Faith being there to be a joke was true, and by having Faith survive past the first round, it eliminated the joke. But after that there was no reason to keep Faith around, and Rachel would have thought it better to have her eliminated in the middle of the order rather than make it to finals or close and really get her hopes up and her heart broken. It would have seemed cruel to do that to Faith, let her get her hopes up more. Adam would have thought the same, so I can see how they both figured Faith would go next, up until Quinn told Rachel that Faith needed to stay. Rachel would not have wanted to explain to Adam that Faith should be kept for cynical reasons, so she would've had to take the reverse psychology route instead to get Adam to keep Faith. Of course, that was all before Rachel realized that Faith actually is gay and in love with her best friend, not Adam.

 

And that's the other reason, by the by, that I was so tickled by Faith's storyline in this episode. She was brought on to be Everlasting's joke, so I really wanted her to triumph somehow, but I just couldn't see Adam genuinely falling for her and I also thought she deserved a lot better than Adam anyway. This ended up being the best of both worlds to me: out of all the contestants she's the one who found true love and will be the happiest, but not with Adam.

Edited by Black Knight
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Yeah--it's not that he called a halt to the sex, it's the way he behaved after calling a halt to the sex.  Adding that into the way he's behaved overall?  If I'm supposed to believe he actually cared /cares for her beyond a superficial level, I need some things answered.

 

It's been a few months, but not very long.  He got back together and engaged during that time?  How ex was the ex when Rachel and he were together?  Why did he evidently lie to his girlfriend/fiancee when they reunited?  Was he honest with Rachel when they were together, because he's okay with not being honest to the person he's involved with?  

 

He called.  Goody for him. Gold stars and a shiny trophy. However, a person he's supposed to have cared about had a breakdown that could end her career and result in charges.  He called a few times?  Did he try going to her apartment?  After all, Rachel had a roommate--it's not like no one would answer, ever.  Most people would be more concerned about someone they're just friendly with, let alone someone they truly care for or love.  

 

Why is everything always Rachel's fault to him?  Is there more backstory there, where she did him wrong in some way (besides not calling him back while having a breakdown, because that's got some extenuating circumstances qualifiers), because if there's not a backstory where she did something awful to him, why does he--and she--seem to think it's okay that he consistently blames her for problems in their interaction?

I totally totally agree. I still think there's more to Rachel's last season blow-up than we've seen or know about yet, and I think Jeremy ties into that in some way, more than oh they had a great weekend, but she refuses to let herself be happy. And clearly he's lying to Lizzie about the extent of his relationship with Rachel-- maybe Rachel found out he was lying to her about the extent of his breakup with Lizzie?

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Rachel had a scene with Adam where she asked him why he didn't do what she told him to do, so I do think she was telling the truth to Quinn about the whole reverse psychology thing. Rachel didn't want Faith to be eliminated in the first ceremony because she knew what Adam said about Faith being there to be a joke was true, and by having Faith survive past the first round, it eliminated the joke. But after that there was no reason to keep Faith around, and Rachel would have thought it better to have her eliminated in the middle of the order rather than make it to finals or close and really get her hopes up and her heart broken. It would have seemed cruel to do that to Faith, let her get her hopes up more. Adam would have thought the same, so I can see how they both figured Faith would go next, up until Quinn told Rachel that Faith needed to stay. Rachel would not have wanted to explain to Adam that Faith should be kept for cynical reasons, so she would've had to take the reverse psychology route instead to get Adam to keep Faith. Of course, that was all before Rachel realized that Faith actually is gay and in love with her best friend, not Adam.

 

 

I see what you're saying and that scene between Rachel and Adam does lead me to believe that she wasn't lying to Quinn. But if she and Adam both thought it was Faith's time to leave, how did Rachel know that Adam would kick back? Reverse psychology doesn't work if the first option is something the other person wants.

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Well I adored this episode for so many reasons, but I've got one question.

Was Faith's character based on Janet Varney's Carly from Burning Love? Because they look strikingly similar. Or is there a previous Bachelor contestant that both of them were based on?

I lack the necessary background knowledge because I've never watched The Bachelor more than in passing. Apparently I just enjoy satires of it.

Edited by DanMSchro
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Yeah--it's not that he called a halt to the sex, it's the way he behaved after calling a halt to the sex.  Adding that into the way he's behaved overall?  If I'm supposed to believe he actually cared /cares for her beyond a superficial level, I need some things answered.

 

It's been a few months, but not very long.  He got back together and engaged during that time?  How ex was the ex when Rachel and he were together?  Why did he evidently lie to his girlfriend/fiancee when they reunited?  Was he honest with Rachel when they were together, because he's okay with not being honest to the person he's involved with?  

 

He called.  Goody for him. Gold stars and a shiny trophy. However, a person he's supposed to have cared about had a breakdown that could end her career and result in charges.  He called a few times?  Did he try going to her apartment?  After all, Rachel had a roommate--it's not like no one would answer, ever.  Most people would be more concerned about someone they're just friendly with, let alone someone they truly care for or love.  

 

Why is everything always Rachel's fault to him?  Is there more backstory there, where she did him wrong in some way (besides not calling him back while having a breakdown, because that's got some extenuating circumstances qualifiers), because if there's not a backstory where she did something awful to him, why does he--and she--seem to think it's okay that he consistently blames her for problems in their interaction?

Very good points.

This scene really resonated with me because recently my best friend disappeared for three weeks (not really, but disappeared from my horizon). We had had a minor misunderstanding so I panicked when she didn't answer my texts, calls, ecards, emails.

 

In another few days I would have sent flowers.

 

Then I'd have just driven to her house, though I wasn't 100% sure she was in the country (she's Irish), and she lives 90 minutes away. Before that happened, though, she texted, and then we met up. She said she'd been blue, and when she gets that way she can't call.

 

I guess my point is, people who are depressed, just as written, don't call. And anyone who knows that takes more heroic efforts to show love. My friend knew I was trying to get hold of her and she thought of me but she was too stressed and sad to reach out. So no, Jeremy, no prizes for you.

 

And his pouncing and then blaming her. Just yuck.

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I've been fighting the Rachel/Adam chemistry, but this episode may be where I give up. They can be honest with each other, and they don't judge each other. I still don't have thoughts about whether they'd become an amazing power couple or drag each other down in a spiral of destruction, but it would at least be something real. Rachel's ex is just wrong for her. He also appears to be a jerk (although I do feel the barn scene was poorly blocked... I think he was supposed to be moved by realizing how depressed she was after her breakdown and that was supposed to be the trigger that led him to jump her but instead it seemed like he was determined to sleep with her again from the start of the conversation and then all of a sudden just wasn't).

 

This. All of this. Adam and Rachel light up the screen whenever they're in a scene together. And my favorite part of their almost-kiss was Adam's surprising moment of honesty. He was obviously getting all hot and bothered by Rachel's nearness, so when she asked him, "We're friends, right?" he could have easily turned on the charm and played on her vulnerability by saying, "Of course, darling. You're the only true friend I have here." Instead he giggled, letting Rachel know that friendship was the last thing on his mind at that moment. And when he added, "I guess you could say that" (or something like that), he seemed to be telling the truth. He wasn't trying to sell it the way he has to on the show.

 

ETA: Jeremy has shown all season (albeit subtly) that he isn't completely over Rachel. So it seemed realistic that he would try to kiss her. But to automatically go from a kiss to taking off clothes and almost doing it on a barn table was quite the quantum leap.

 

 

he's a bag of dicks with a heart.

Hilarious, rubyred. If Chet ever gets his own thread, this line has to be part of the title.

Edited by topanga
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I just find Jeremy somewhere between an asshole and a bore. A boring asshole perhaps. Enh his character just isn't that interesting and honestly I still have to look up his name to remember who the F he is.

I like Rachel & Adam together as friends but to me it seems like a cliche to have them as a couple. Some tv characters are just meant to be really good pals and not lovers.

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So now she blames herself and Jeremy blames her for anything and everything, when in reality people and relationships are far more complicated than that. I mean, I agree that Rachel is not capable of having a healthy relationship right now with anyone - she is unhealthy and unhealthy people cannot have healthy relationships - but that does not mean every single problem is completely and only her fault.

 

It jumped out at me when the psychologist was so concerned about Rachel going on the trip specifically with Jeremy. I can't remember her exact line, but something about her wording made it seem more than a generic concern for Rachel going on the trip with an ex for whom she may have unresolved feelings. It seemed more like there was something specific about the Rachel/Jeremy dynamic that people recognized as unhealthy.

 

I like that the show dribbles out backstory for the production crew in general, but I wish we had just a little more exposition about Rachel/Jeremy/Lizzie, so that we can better understand the stakes.

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It jumped out at me when the psychologist was so concerned about Rachel going on the trip specifically with Jeremy. I can't remember her exact line, but something about her wording made it seem more than a generic concern for Rachel going on the trip with an ex for whom she may have unresolved feelings. It seemed more like there was something specific about the Rachel/Jeremy dynamic that people recognized as unhealthy.

That actually surprised me. I could understand her concern about Rachel's drinking, but Rachel hadn't behaved for one second like she was still pining over Jeremy. Maybe the leaked video made the therapist think that she still held feelings for him? I totally agree with you. There's more to the story than we know.

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I feel like the shrink is shoehorned in whenever some superquick exposition is necessary to explain the next five minutes. The show doesn't really quite know how to use her.

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I feel like the shrink is shoehorned in whenever some superquick exposition is necessary to explain the next five minutes. The show doesn't really quite know how to use her.

Exactly! Like the reveal that Mary is biopolar, takes mood stabilizers, and has PTSD from the domestic abuse. Or this:

I'm worried about you, hon. You're about to go on your first overnight trip with Jeremy. I just want you to keep making good decisions for yourself. Giving in to him, in particular, kind of destabilized you last time—Mexico? And if you could stay away from the booze on the road.

[Chuckles] Makes us horny.

Edited by editorgrrl
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Giving in to him, in particular, kind of destabilized you last time—Mexico?
That was the line! Now if only the show could please explain why Jeremy, in particular, destabilized Rachel.

 

I feel like the shrink is shoehorned in whenever some superquick exposition is necessary to explain the next five minutes. The show doesn't really quite know how to use her.
I'd like to see a session between her and Rachel... a real session, not a walk and talk session. I want to know if the psychiatrist is actually effective when she's not being corrupt for the show, and it could be a good way to get some backstory.
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Breeda Wool, who plays Faith, did an interview with After Ellen, and I was particularly struck by this quote of hers, given the conversation earlier in this forum about how the town would feel about her having sex with Adam in this episode:

 

In the story, I’ve spent my whole life trying to—going on the show is like my big effort to get away from Amy and get away from those thoughts and try to quote unquote correct myself in accordance with my religious fate and in accordance with my community and my grandmother. It’s interesting as well because I’m from a very small town and it’s very interesting because I feel like everybody knows. Everybody knows about me and Amy. I feel like everybody pressures me to go on this show and there’s a lot that’s unsaid and a lot that’s unspoken about.

 

I think that's a really interesting and plausible explanation. It's not simply that the town doesn't care about premarital sex as much as they do about gay sex, it's that they'll even push for the former if it means getting someone away from the latter. Because I did kind of think, during the episode, that here Amy is, Faith's Gran's caretaker when Faith is away; Faith gives her super-long hugs; the intensity of their relationship is really obvious; and in super small towns people watch each other constantly and talk about each other - how could Gran and the townspeople not know? But that's just it. They do know. They're just hoping Faith doesn't go there.

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I'd like to see a session between her and Rachel... a real session, not a walk and talk session. I want to know if the psychiatrist is actually effective when she's not being corrupt for the show, and it could be a good way to get some backstory.

 

This is a good question, and a good point.

 

Plus, even if the therapist is amazing and talented at her job, how much could Rachel trust her when the therapist is freely passing out information about the girls on the show?  That can't make her someone Rachel is comfortable sharing her problems with, even if she is acres more supportive and helpful than Rachel's mother's attempts at therapy.

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Isn't Rachel just lying to Quinn about Faith? In the first episode, she told Adam to dump the evil contestant and keep Faith to piss off Quinn. Did she tell him to dump Faith later?

I thought the reverse psychology statement to Quinn and production was to throw them off the scent that Rachel and Adam had determined way back when to keep Faith.

Upon rewatching, I think Rachel did use reverse psychology on Adam because she knows him so well. In a later scene, Rachel asked him why he didn't do what she said, which was sending Faith home (did anyone go home this week?), and he told her he wasn't her "meat puppet," whatever that is. I assume that's a British term. If they'd made a secret agreement about keeping Faith, they wouldn't have needed that exchange.

 

Oh, and I see why Rachel is so good is producing people. Shiri does an outstanding job of subtly changing the pitch of her voice, the cadence, and even her facial expressions when she’s manipulating someone. I’d forgotten about the scene in Faith’s room (on the set), when she was trying to convince Faith to lose her virginity to Adam. Rachel talked to her like they were best friends from college and actually got Faith to say she’d think about it. Which makes me wonder if Rachel is producing Adam when she flirts with him.

I do think Rachel was being genuine when she talked to Faith about being true to herself and to Amy. And I love that when Faith said, “That’s disgusting,” Rachel earnestly replied, “No it’s not.” I wonder if Faith and Amy had a chance to hook up before everyone left Mississippi. Would that be TMI?

--By the way, does Rachel live in that box now? Is that even legal? Where does she shower? Has she showered since she jumped in with Adam?  And where does she go to take a poop?

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” I wonder if Faith and Amy had a chance to hook up before everyone left Mississippi. Would that be TMI?

I doubt it. Faith seemed far more ready to take the next steps than Amy did.

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It's not simply that the town doesn't care about premarital sex as much as they do about gay sex, it's that they'll even push for the former if it means getting someone away from the latter.

 

Deep Mississippi roots here. We have our Sin Hierarchy. At one time, getting pregnant was the worst thing a girl could do (homosexuality wasn't even on the radar, or people looked the other way). Today's it's being gay, and parents are grateful if a kid is "only" pregnant instead of gay.  As someone quipped on this show or another one, the next big thing is being transgender.

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I’d forgotten about the scene in Faith’s room (on the set), when she was trying to convince Faith to lose her virginity to Adam. Rachel talked to her like they were best friends from college and actually got Faith to say she’d think about it. Which makes me wonder if Rachel is producing Adam when she flirts with him.

I think Rachel is producing Adam, but she does have real feelings for him too. We know this because in the last episode she freaked out when she was watching the tape and saw her facial expression of pure bliss when Adam kissed her.

--By the way, does Rachel live in that box now? Is that even legal? Where does she shower? Has she showered since she jumped in with Adam?  And where does she go to take a poop?

There must be bathrooms on the set designated for staff use--I'm assuming in a part of the house where the women aren't staying. So Rachel can use one of those. I'm wondering why she hasn't moved into a bedroom after the contestants leave. I think it's part of the "Rachel is so depressed she doesn't care" theme. She makes sporadic attempts to clean herself up, but disheveled is her default look.

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On reality shows that are set in a city away from where the main producers live, the staff that is brought in is often put up in apartments by the show. If Rachel is so crucial to the show, I don't see why she's sleeping in a truck.

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On reality shows that are set in a city away from where the main producers live, the staff that is brought in is often put up in apartments by the show. If Rachel is so crucial to the show, I don't see why she's sleeping in a truck.

Because plot.

Besides, it allows other characters to snark at her:

"What's the occasion? You ditched the birds-nest look."

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I'm wondering why she hasn't moved into a bedroom after the contestants leave. I think it's part of the "Rachel is so depressed she doesn't care" theme. She makes sporadic attempts to clean herself up, but disheveled is her default look.

Maybe there aren't any empty rooms? I thought the girls shared rooms in the beginning. At least that's how I interpreted why the girls were getting ready for the group date in "Wife" in pairs. The girls didn't necessarily seem to like one another, so I doubt they were getting ready together out of a sense of camaraderie. Maybe as rooms free up from girls being sent home, contestants who still have roommates get first dibs on the empty rooms?

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It's also possible that the show charges the employees a fee for accommodations.  The more comfortable, the higher the fee.  Since Rachel's supposed to be very, very broke, she'd go for the cheapest option.

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I doubt it. Faith seemed far more ready to take the next steps than Amy did.

Judging from Amy's reaction to that kiss (both of their reactions were awesome and adorable), it wouldn't surprise me if they did end up sleeping together as soon as Faith and Adam finished their phony sex. Amy told Faith before the kiss that she was good with her - it's just the public coming-out stuff that she's not ready for.

 

I really can't say enough about how beautifully Breeda Wool played Faith's reaction after she admitted out loud for the first time that she's attracted to Amy and nothing horrible happened. She was just glowing, and you could really see what a huge release it was for Faith to finally speak her truth.

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I've given up on shipping, it takes too much energy to be left with that flat feeling of mild disgruntlement when either your OTP gets together but the storyline is lackluster or they don't get together and it begins to feel like some kind of producer or fanservice agenda. Messes with my enjoyment of a show. That said, of the two "options" it strikes me that Adam is a better candidate for Rachel simply because he gets her on a level that Jeremy doesn't.

 

It's not just, as Mari pointed out, Jeremy mentioned calling her but not arsing himself to drop by. And it's not just negging her after calling a halt to the hookup. And we are handicapped by the lack of development of Jeremy's character. But. To me he comes across as  "nice guy" -- that is, a guy who considers himself a nice guy, but is actually just a guy who knows how to look and sound like a nice guy. Because I question how deep that relationship was if he had no problem suggesting Rachel go to her parents for money, when one dinner with that woman made it perfectly clear how difficult, fraught and strings-attached that would be for Rachel. Adam is in a similar situation with his own family, and he is struggling to break out of it, too.

 

As for whether Adam and Rachel would "work out." I am definitely cynical about relationships but I question this belief that a relationship is a failure if it doesn't lead to marriage. Sometimes relationships run their course, and why should that be considered a failure? Adam has no intention of marrying or falling in love with any of these contestants. He's there for image-management as he launches a new business which is going to be extremely time-consuming. So he knows that he needs to stand there and let them shellac his hair down (not hot, Show!) and pretend to enjoy kissing all these randos. Doesn't stop him from leaning in towards Rachel, and why should it? I say go for it, 'cause Jeremy IMO is a putz.

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Judging from Amy's reaction to that kiss (both of their reactions were awesome and adorable), it wouldn't surprise me if they did end up sleeping together as soon as Faith and Adam finished their phony sex. Amy told Faith before the kiss that she was good with her - it's just the public coming-out stuff that she's not ready for.

I really can't say enough about how beautifully Breeda Wool played Faith's reaction after she admitted out loud for the first time that she's attracted to Amy and nothing horrible happened. She was just glowing, and you could really see what a huge release it was for Faith to finally speak her truth.

That really was one of the more amazing coming out scenes I've ever seen on TV. I rewinded it twice when I was watching the episode for the first time, it was just that good. I loved Faith's facial expression in the pregnant pause leading up to saying Amy's name as the person she loved for the first time. She had this impressive mixture of terror of being condemned for exposing her truth and hope that she might finally have the opportunity to live her life as she truly is and be accepted for it. That moment made her delighted relief after she said it all that sweeter.

I really hope Breeda Wool's career starts going places after UnReal, because she proved herself to be something really special this episode!

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On reality shows that are set in a city away from where the main producers live, the staff that is brought in is often put up in apartments by the show. If Rachel is so crucial to the show, I don't see why she's sleeping in a truck.

My guess would be that since Rachel already owes the show money, amongst other things, it's a matter of pride and she's sleeping in the truck so she doesn't have to tell anyone that she doesn't have anywhere to stay. Honestly, that's probably what I would do in that situation.

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I really hope Breeda Wool's career starts going places after UnReal, because she proved herself to be something really special this episode!

I hope so too, she really played her character so beautifully and shined in this episode. I hope Faith does win at the end, she's my favorite contestant at this point.

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Faith's chances seem pretty good to win since Adam knows she's the one contestant who definitely isn't interested in him. Also, now that he's supposedly been her first, if he doesn't choose her to win it would ruin whatever positive reputation he might've built up, which is the whole reason he's on this show. Faith inspires protective feelings in people (props to Breeda Wool for playing "baby bird" so well), and viewers would hate Adam. Adam must realize that.

 

I'm not sure winning is best for Faith, though, because they'll be followed around by the media. The faux-engagement will eventually have to end and in no time the tabloids would be printing that the reason is because Faith's really with her best friend, and I doubt Amy wants to be splashed all over the tabloids as the woman the Everlasting winner scandalously dumped her Bachelor fiance for. No, now that I think more about it, winning is really not best for Faith.

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Upon rewatching, I think Rachel did use reverse psychology on Adam because she knows him so well. In a later scene, Rachel asked him why he didn't do what she said, which was sending Faith home (did anyone go home this week?), and he told her he wasn't her "meat puppet," whatever that is. I assume that's a British term. If they'd made a secret agreement about keeping Faith, they wouldn't have needed that exchange.

 

Oh, and I see why Rachel is so good is producing people. Shiri does an outstanding job of subtly changing the pitch of her voice, the cadence, and even her facial expressions when she’s manipulating someone. I’d forgotten about the scene in Faith’s room (on the set), when she was trying to convince Faith to lose her virginity to Adam. Rachel talked to her like they were best friends from college and actually got Faith to say she’d think about it. Which makes me wonder if Rachel is producing Adam when she flirts with him.

I do think Rachel was being genuine when she talked to Faith about being true to herself and to Amy. And I love that when Faith said, “That’s disgusting,” Rachel earnestly replied, “No it’s not.” I wonder if Faith and Amy had a chance to hook up before everyone left Mississippi. Would that be TMI?

--By the way, does Rachel live in that box now? Is that even legal? Where does she shower? Has she showered since she jumped in with Adam?  And where does she go to take a poop?

I remember the term "meat puppet" being used back when Murphy Brown was on CBS, so I'm guessing it's just not very popular. I use it a lot myself.

 

The scene before Rachel showered with Adam showed her taking a whore's bath with baby wipes. It's possible also that the crew gets a per diem and Rachel is hoarding it rather than using it on a hotel room since she's getting docked so heavily.

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I remember the term "meat puppet" being used back when Murphy Brown was on CBS, so I'm guessing it's just not very popular. I use it a lot myself.

Really?  I didn't realize it went back that far.

 

I use it myself--I think it tends to show up more often on shows and in fandoms where things like possession or magical control are likely.  I know it's been used some on Supernatural, and I've seen it in the forum (and used it) on other genre threads.

 

Oh--and meat puppet is basically a blunt way of saying someone's being controlled by another person.  

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I'm not sure winning is best for Faith, though, because they'll be followed around by the media. The faux-engagement will eventually have to end and in no time the tabloids would be printing that the reason is because Faith's really with her best friend, and I doubt Amy wants to be splashed all over the tabloids as the woman the Everlasting winner scandalously dumped her Bachelor fiance for. No, now that I think more about it, winning is really not best for Faith.

 

On the one hand, that's definitely true. On the other hand, there's a cash prize involved that would mean Faith & Amy (and her grandma) could move somewhere more accepting.

I remember the term "meat puppet" being used back when Murphy Brown was on CBS, so I'm guessing it's just not very popular. I use it a lot myself.

 

The scene before Rachel showered with Adam showed her taking a whore's bath with baby wipes. It's possible also that the crew gets a per diem and Rachel is hoarding it rather than using it on a hotel room since she's getting docked so heavily.

Yeah, I think meat puppet is a strange turn of phrase, but not uncommon. However, points for the use of the term "whore's bath." That's a new one for me.

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Does it matter who Adam ends up with? The odds that it would last are very low the way it is. I doubt there's a contractual obligation to stay together after the final show has aired.

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