S02.E02: Night Finds You

[DiabLOL]

Ray's not dead IMO. It's some sort of kinky sex game ring thing he's involved in, again IMO.

I'm thinking the same. Also I think that was hot wax on the floor, not dried blood. 

 

I'll be really disappointed if Paul, with the Viagra and the seductive Mom turns out to be a self-loathing closeted serial killer.

[Cutty]

What's the deal with McAdams' character watching porn? Is this another reference to her anal sex fixation? Christ, Pizzolatto has serious mommy issues.

 

I've also given up on trying to watch this without the subtitles on. I don't know if it's the sound mix or the actors mumbling, but I find it incomprehensible without subtitles. 

Edited June 30, 2015 by Cutty

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I'm guessing there is an incest story with Paul and his mom. She was way too touchy and jealous over who he was dating.

If, in fact, Paul is gay and that is one of the reasons he is troubled, it is sadly still true that many professions that have a "macho" or "manly" orientation continue to be bigoted toward people who are GLBT. I imagine this is the case with the police force. Cater that with his inappropriate mom - shades of Gillian Darmody from Boardwalk Empire anyone? - I could see it being a realistic, and sad, portrayal of someone who loves his job but cannot be who he is because of its culture of being homophobic and a possible preying mother

I was definitely also getting "trailer park version of Gillian Darmondy-Jimmy Darmondy" vibes in the scene with Paul and his mom.

I'm so glad SOMEONE got that reference. (Yeah...pretty much my favoritist movie EVER!) It's so hard to work in Kill Bill references most days.

"Kill Bill" (both parts) is one of my favorite films as well. I think I'm going to try to use a Kill Bill reference everyday this week. ;)

I think part of the reason the dialogue comes off so clunky is because so many of these characters are essentially the same or dealing with the same issues/type of issues. Part of the reason S1's dialogue and characters worked so well was because the two main characters - Rust & Marty - were essentially foils of each other. You could practically hear Marty's eyes rolling in his head when Rust was going on some philosophical rant in the car, and then he'd come back with some response that made the viewers chuckle or Rust would have some snarky comment on Marty's actions (like asking if the money he gave the young prostitute at the trailer park bunny ranch was a down payment). These characters in S2 don't seem to be comfortable enough with each other to have that kind of ability to call each other out, plus they have the core issues in common, like sexual dysfunction.

I'm thinking that Pizzolato has decided that one of the requirements for each season of True Detective is or will be some sort of animal-like mask or headress used in weird sex stuff (the raven masked guy from this week's episode & the cow heads on victims in S1). Another requirement seems to be an alcoholic cop who somehow loses a child and is thinking about that "one option" that everyone's got "if you want it bad enough."

I need more shirtless Taylor Kitsch. That's one of the main reasons I'm watching. I wonder if maybe while Paul is straight, if he perhaps worked as a male prostitute at one time. Or perhaps if he watched someone in Black Mountain rape a man in Iraq or if he perhaps took part in some sort of sexual torture of a male while working for them? Are there any instances of that happening with Blackwater in Iraq?

I also want to know more about the lady who works at the bar who seems to care for Colin Farrell. What's her back story? How did she get the scar? I feel like she may have one of the more interesting character backstories in the series (but we probably won't hear about it).

I've also given up on trying to watch this without the subtitles on. I don't know if it's the sound mix or the actors mumbling, but I find it incomprehensible without subtitles.

So do I. But I often have trouble hearing/understanding shows on HBO and often put the captioning on for that channel or have to turn it up. Edited June 30, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

Something something central railway, Vince gets a bunch of money to put into it but then the dead guy had all the money for some reason.

That's it!

It is about a train project. I actually heard that is based on a real project and the costs they gave in the first episode were right on  the money. $68 Million, if I recall correctly.

 

So, it is about a train. And, some how that town stands to make loads of money. How? Especially since I thought it was a passenger train? I don't know. Or, do I?

 

I suppose a passenger train would get lots of people to and from the casino and the jobs in that town. There must be lots of retail businesses besides the bar and the casino. Mask and costume stores?

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Frank (VV)'s dialogue on the opening scene reminded me a little of Cohle's "time is a flat circle" speech last season but also had a couple of lines that really did a good job (IMO) of getting across the way a significant trauma can haunt you forever, as if it never really ended:

"Ever since I've wondered what if he never comes home? What if I'm still in the basement in the dark?"

I think that Frank is still squashing rats that bite at him and searching for ways out of a drunk's basement as an adult. All of these characters are haunted by the past - the rape of Ray's wife & killing the rapist; Ani's mom's suicide (& 2 siblings' suicides) & whatever happened at her dad's commune when she was a kid; and whatever stuff happened to Paul while he was in "the desert" and/or "before."

Edited June 30, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I see lots of speculation about Ray's son's dad being one of the red headed characters we've seen so far since neither Ray or his ex are redheads (of course, they could just carry the redhead gene in their genotype but not express it in their phenotype or have red headed parents). I just want to say that although Ray doesn't have an Irish last name (Velcoro isn't exactly 0'Connell or Flanagan, etc) I guess it never struck me as weird that he has a redhead son since the actor who is playing Ray is Irish. I know plenty of redheads with an Irish non-red headed parent like Farrell. So I guess I just naturally assumed Ray's mom was Irish and he could have passed down the ginger gene that way. ;)

Now, I don't think Ray is the boy's dad but I don't necessarily think that means that the kid's dad is for sure a redhead. In my family, the redhead gene seems to almost always skip a generation. If Pizzolato is going for the common misconception that redheaded kid=redheaded parent, then my money is on the redheaded goon with the Russian accent who beat up the guy who he (& the other goon) rear-ended, based on body type (which again is not necessarily something all kids and parents share).

Edited June 30, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[sjankis630]

 

As far as the land deal, I assume the plan is to buy land which will eventually have the high-speed-rail running through it, thus presumably exploding the value of the land.  Dead-Dickless-Guy may have some say in the actual route that the rail line takes through Vinci, so he can determine which land will increase in value.

Plus didn't we find out that Caspere was lying to Vaughn saying that the land would be worth less than what he had promised? (for some reason I am thinking he was told $10m vs the new offer of $7m?)

I think that Caspere spent some of that $5m on some very expensive, dirty prostitutes!

I have to use hand sanitizer after turning off my TV via remote after watching an episode of this show its so dirty!

[shapeshifter]

...I guess we are to assume Rachel McAdam's character was molested on the commune, Ray said something to her about having to watch her back or always being on guard...

I'm hoping she managed to avoid it because either she saw what happened to her sister, or her sister protected her.

I'm guessing there is an incest story with Paul and his mom. She was way too touchy and jealous over who he was dating.

This could be the cause of his impotence too.

I have a low tolerance for dramas based on weird sex, but last season was so great, that it was worth slogging through. The cinematographer is different this season too. Without Fukunaga behind the camera and without someone with Woody's sense of humor, I don't know how long I'll last. I've got a lot of real life drama at the moment, so am down to 5 or 6 shows per week.

ETA: About red-headedness: Doesn't it "skip a generation," or is that an "old wives' tale"?

Edited June 30, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Lemons]

I see lots of speculation about Ray's son's dad being one of the red headed characters we've seen so far since neither Ray or his ex are redheads (of course, they could just carry the redhead gene in their genotype but not express it in their phenotype or have red headed parents). I just want to say that although Ray doesn't have an Irish last name (Velcoro isn't exactly 0'Connell or Flanagan, etc) I guess it never struck me as weird that he has a redhead son since the actor who is playing Ray is Irish.

 

I think the kid having red hair, a chubby build and a timid personality were signs to tell us that the child isn't Ray's.  Plus Ray knows it's not his biological child because he panicked when his ex-wife suggested a paternity test. 

 

I felt so bad for him when he showed up to see his son and his wife was there to tell him she was looking to get supervised visits.  Although who could blame her.

[LoveLeigh]

The suspicious one to watch is Frank's wife, Jordan. She looks like she has something up her sleeve. She is way too into Frank. 

 

And why is Abigail Spencer not listed in the credits? She plays Alicia Brune, Ray's ex wife. 

[Kbilly]

The true mystery is why the traffic always seems to be moving steadily on LA freeways.

 

The mayor is just too character-y. Drinking dastardly at his desk from a silver chalice and decanter. 

 

The f*g drop by Paul was so jarring! I was confused by the blue pill last episode and his leering at the prostitutes was odd. He is tortured for sure.

 

I will be really sad if Ray is dead, he is the most interesting character. I mean where does one even buy a bolo tie in 2015?

 

SO.... time is a flat circle jerk?

 

hee!

[Blakeston]

Stress, PTSD for example, can cause impotence, Not being able to get it up with a woman can mean more than that he is gay.

Impotence can happen for all sorts of reasons. But on a TV show, when they establish that a male character needs pills to get an erection with a woman, and they have him awkwardly throw out an anti-gay slur that comes across as posturing, and they include a shot of him watching gay men on the street, and his mother comments on how he doesn't notice it when women are interested in him...he's probably gay.

[Ellaria]

I see lots of speculation about Ray's son's dad being one of the red headed characters we've seen so far since neither Ray or his ex are redheads (of course, they could just carry the redhead gene in their genotype but not express it in their phenotype or have red headed parents). I just want to say that although Ray doesn't have an Irish last name (Velcoro isn't exactly 0'Connell or Flanagan, etc) I guess it never struck me as weird that he has a redhead son since the actor who is playing Ray is Irish. I know plenty of redheads with an Irish non-red headed parent like Farrell. So I guess I just naturally assumed Ray's mom was Irish and he could have passed down the ginger gene that way. ;)

Now, I don't think Ray is the boy's dad but I don't necessarily think that means that the kid's dad is for sure a redhead. In my family, the redhead gene seems to almost always skip a generation. If Pizzolato is going for the common misconception that redheaded kid=redheaded parent, then my money is on the redheaded goon with the Russian accent who beat up the guy who he (& the other goon) rear-ended, based on body type (which again is not necessarily something all kids and parents share).

 

I never thought twice about the boy having red hair until I read speculation about it elsewhere. As you say, I assumed that there may have been a "ginger" grandparent.

 

However, if the boy's paternity is going to be of some importance, then yes, I also noticed the red-headed goon from the crash, Ivar. He appears to work for Frank. And if that's the case, did Frank point Ray towards an innocent man as his wife's rapist and why?

 

 

The suspicious one to watch is Frank's wife, Jordan. She looks like she has something up her sleeve. She is way too into Frank.

 

 Agree. So far, she seems to be smart, clever and full of advice. I don't trust her. 

[halkatla]

This show is so boring, I´m struggling to be bothered watching it. I guess it´s supposed to be very good and quality tv and whatnot but that´s not what makes me love or even just like a show. I need something to care about and a good exciting mystery to unravel. As this episode drew to a close I actually thought "was season 1 this bad but only saved because of the two lead actors and their characters?" and then I remembered that no, that season had a mind-blowing mystery and just everything that makes for good tv. This episode was almost as boring as the first one, RM and CF had a good scene in the car, everything else was blah. And then Colin Farrel gets killed (?) by some masked weirdo (who would have been cool doing everything but that). I think I´m, mostly, out. 

[djsunyc]

it's really really really tough for me to get by the really poor dialogue and the poor acting.  RMc is doing a good job.  CF is doing OK but his dialogue is so damn crappy.  that whole scene in front of the school with the mom saying his son is the only thing he has is so tired and boring.  and VV...that monologue to start was just so...bleh.  this is out of his range.  TK looks like a child of sexual abuse as his mother was all over him and jealous of the women in his life.  the smarmy judge or whatever he was sounded like the dude from "johnny dangerously" - you farghin icehole lol.

 

overall, this has been a poor season based around sexual issues.  and i fear they are going to do something really perverted involved RMc.  oh well...i think i may wait for this one to be over and then binge it if i hear that it gets better.

[teddysmom]

Whoever shot Ray is probably the same guy or affiliated with whoever drove Caspere to the rest stop.  That crow headpiece he had on when he shot Ray was sitting in the back seat of the car next to Caspere. 

 

I have a feeling the Vinci mayor is in on this.  

[ToastnBacon]

 

I have a feeling the Vinci mayor is in on this.

Same here. The mayor really doesn't want Casper's murder solved, and Frank does want it solved.

It seems kind of obvious that Frank was played by the mayor and company. I suspect that even the State DA in in on it.

Why would they send a motorcycle cop to be their eyes and ears on the investigation? Because they think he will be easy to control.

[teddysmom]

Same here. The mayor really doesn't want Casper's murder solved, and Frank does want it solved.

It seems kind of obvious that Frank was played by the mayor and company. I suspect that even the State DA in in on it.

Why would they send a motorcycle cop to be their eyes and ears on the investigation? Because they think he will be easy to control.

 

Exactly.   CHP would turn the investigation over to Vinci or the County.   Just because you're driving through a city on your off hours and come upon a crime scene, it isn't your department's jurisdiction to solve it.

 

 How bad is Vinci when the mayor is shaking down a gangster.  

[Alapaki]

Plus didn't we find out that Caspere was lying to Vaughn saying that the land would be worth less than what he had promised? (for some reason I am thinking he was told $10m vs the new offer of $7m?)

I think that Caspere spent some of that $5m on some very expensive, dirty prostitutes!

 

 

What (I think) we know is that 1) dead-dickless-guy told Vince Vaughn the land was selling for $10M, and Vince Vaughn gave him $5M.  I also think I heard them say the land acquisition was being run through a Holding Company (presumably to conceal the identity of the true ownership interests).  Then Vince Vaughn found out that the price of the land was actually $7M instead of $10M.

 

That suggests a couple of possibilities to me.  There may be more.

 

1) The deal between Vaughn and dead-dickless-guy was to be 50-50, meaning that for a $10M purchase Vaughn thought both of them would be putting in $5M.  Only because the price was $7M, dead-dickless-guy was only putting in $2M, thus getting a bigger stake than he'd paid for.

 

2) The problem with that scenario, though, is that it doesn't account for why Vaughn was hitting up the Russian guy for money.  So maybe it was going to be $5M from Vaughn and $5M from the Russian, and dead-dickless-guy was just going to pocket the extra $3M after making the $7M purchase.

 

Exactly.   CHP would turn the investigation over to Vinci or the County.   Just because you're driving through a city on your off hours and come upon a crime scene, it isn't your department's jurisdiction to solve it.

 

 

It made sense to me that the State would use the CHP's involvement as a hook to get themselves into the murder investigation.  The State apparently was headed towards investigating the City anyway.  But that would involve lawyers and subpoenas and Courts and lots of opportunities for the City to obstruct.  Insinuating themselves in the murder investigation gives the State much more unfettered access to evidence that they might not be able to get through their actual corruption investigation.

 

What didn't make sense was why the State would feel the need to have the CHP officer run the investigation.  Obviously they felt they could control him because they were offering the carrot of making the blowjob investigation go away.  But surely the State has actual, competent investigators who they could've inserted into the murder investigation once they'd asserted their jurisdiction.

[kieyra]

Didn't we already see Stringer Bell try to run this kind of deal and fail?

 

(I know, I know, there are no new stories, but if you're going to retread The Wire you better come locked and loaded.) 

[nachomama]

Was Rick Springfield supposed to look that creepy and weird? 

[Mars477]

What (I think) we know is that 1) dead-dickless-guy told Vince Vaughn the land was selling for $10M, and Vince Vaughn gave him $5M. I also think I heard them say the land acquisition was being run through a Holding Company (presumably to conceal the identity of the true ownership interests). Then Vince Vaughn found out that the price of the land was actually $7M instead of $10M.

That suggests a couple of possibilities to me. There may be more.

1) The deal between Vaughn and dead-dickless-guy was to be 50-50, meaning that for a $10M purchase Vaughn thought both of them would be putting in $5M. Only because the price was $7M, dead-dickless-guy was only putting in $2M, thus getting a bigger stake than he'd paid for.

2) The problem with that scenario, though, is that it doesn't account for why Vaughn was hitting up the Russian guy for money. So maybe it was going to be $5M from Vaughn and $5M from the Russian, and dead-dickless-guy was just going to pocket the extra $3M after making the $7M purchase.

It made sense to me that the State would use the CHP's involvement as a hook to get themselves into the murder investigation. The State apparently was headed towards investigating the City anyway. But that would involve lawyers and subpoenas and Courts and lots of opportunities for the City to obstruct. Insinuating themselves in the murder investigation gives the State much more unfettered access to evidence that they might not be able to get through their actual corruption investigation.

What didn't make sense was why the State would feel the need to have the CHP officer run the investigation. Obviously they felt they could control him because they were offering the carrot of making the blowjob investigation go away. But surely the State has actual, competent investigators who they could've inserted into the murder investigation once they'd asserted their jurisdiction.

As Ray implied, the reason why the state's presence in the investigation is a fucked up CHP officer and not a State Homicide investigator is that Paul isn't actually meant to uncover anything that's actionable. It's implied that the state attorney is more interested in some of that Vinci money being spread around.

[marcee]

Someone told me that True Detective is based on a true stories... so I googled and found an article that talked about the Louisiana crime case season 1 was based on and it made mention that the season 2 story is going to be about

"hard women, bad men and the secret occult history of the United States transportation system."

Edited June 30, 2015 by marcee

[teddysmom]

What didn't make sense was why the State would feel the need to have the CHP officer run the investigation.  Obviously they felt they could control him because they were offering the carrot of making the blowjob investigation go away.  But surely the State has actual, competent investigators who they could've inserted into the murder investigation once they'd asserted their jurisdiction.

 

But he's not really running the investigation is he?  Isn't Ani running it? 

 

Also, the crap with the actress is so ridiculous.  Again, the need for body cams is highlighted. 

[ToastnBacon]

Didn't we already see Stringer Bell try to run this kind of deal and fail?

 

(I know, I know, there are no new stories, but if you're going to retread The Wire you better come locked and loaded.)

It is an age old story, politicians swindling money from gangsters.

[iMonrey]

 

Sure, the "mayor" of a city of 95 residents filled with millions of dollars of business and 70,000 non-resident workers is already suspect. Obviously, it is all about developing the land and getting a piece of any business action. But, specifically?

 

I've yet to even hear them specify this deal is about land. Unless I missed something.

 

 

I think that's the difference between acting and merely reading lines from a script.  None of the things that Matthew McConaughey did that made his character so distinctive were written down in the script.  He crafted that character in a way that made the byzantine dialogue work.

 

Eh. Maybe I'm the only one in the world who isn't impressed with Matthew McConaughey but I found his performance just as pretentious as anything else on the show. In fact his endless philosophical monologues were the absolute worst part of Season 1 for me. It sort of turned me off to the actor so bad I can barely stand the sight of him anymore. I see little to distinguish the character he played in True Detective from the TV commercials he does for Lincolns.

[Alapaki]

I've yet to even hear them specify this deal is about land. Unless I missed something.

 

 

I thought part of the semi-background-chatter during the Casino scene *where Vince Vaughn was blown off by the Russian in Ep 1) was about how much the value of the land surrounding the route of the proposed High-Speed Rail Line would increase.  Granted, I don't necessarily buy that since there doesn't appear to be anything in Vinci worth getting off the High Speed Train for.  But I think that's the premise we're supposed to accept.

 

Eh. Maybe I'm the only one in the world who isn't impressed with Matthew McConaughey but I found his performance just as pretentious as anything else on the show. In fact his endless philosophical monologues were the absolute worst part of Season 1 for me.

 

 

I wasn't crazy about them.  But at least it didn't sound like he was sitting around a table-read like I thought Vince Vaughn's "basement" monologue did this week.  

[teddysmom]

I've yet to even hear them specify this deal is about land. Unless I missed something.

 

The rail is going to run through Central California, not just Vinci (if I'm not mistaken).   And owning the land next to the rail is highly valuable. The state will have to request easements from the land owners, which the state will have to pay for, developers will come with various commercial projects, more industrial facilities, ie, office warehouse, bulk warehouse, etc. as this will be valuable for moving product up and down the state. 

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

Someone told me that True Detective is based on a true stories... so I googled and found an article that talked about the Louisiana crime case season 1 was based on and it made mention that the season 2 story is going to be about

I haven't read all the newer comments but I want to know is there Speculation thread set up. Or how does a Speculation thread get set up?

 

There was this "analysis" of the series so far using Egyptian mythology/ Ancient Egyptian practices. The analysis is informative but it is not an article; it is a comment.

 

Hopefully, it's okay if I link to the comment from another site?

I don't want to wholesale cut and quote the guy's thoughts. Nor do I want to commit a faux pas.

 

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/72110#comment-2108695648

 

If linking to this is wrong, let me know. It seems to be worth a read, like the Yellow King stuff was worth considering (before the first season dropped the ball off a cliff and went home with a plain, ol', inbred, psycho killer.)

Edited June 30, 2015 by Hobo.PassingThru

[tennisgurl]

 

I was definitely also getting "trailer park version of Gillian Darmondy-Jimmy Darmondy" vibes in the scene with Paul and his mom

I literally thought the exact same thing! I was watching their scene, and thinking "so this is what Gillian would be like if she lived in a trailer in modern day CA". 

 

HBO does love its incest. 

[A Boston Gal]

Count me as another who experienced a "Boardwalk Empire" flashback. I also seem to be a member of "I had to fast forward through the Vince Vaughn monologue" club. He was just painful to watch.

[ChaseMCP]

Just caught up on this ep. Unfortunately, I knew the twist with Ray at the end (review sites really need to do a better job with their headlines - "Guess Who May Be Dead on True Detective?" followed by a picture of Colin Farrell, gee I wonder). Either way, still a shock. I don't think he's dead though, mainly because I think it would be horrible story telling, since so much time has been set to build his character. Even Ned Stark had a whole season and several other characters around to pick up the slack.

 

Yeah...that first scene was rough. I actually don't think VV was too bad. If anything, the scene just went on for too long. It reminds me of whenever you watch a comedy skit and you reach a point where you want the skit to wrap up, otherwise the joke will drag and no longer be funny. The scene went too long for me, so whatever I was supposed to get from it was just lost on me because I no longer cared by the end. Though VV could be better. I'm hopeful though. I've never liked his movies, but I'm always little excited to see comedy actors try out drama.

 

Meanwhile, CF and RM continue to be great. I loved CF's acting in the scene where he meets with the ex-wife. Even though I totally understand why she wants sole custody and think it's probably the best idea, I still felt bad for Ray by the end. Almost made me forget about how his kid is probably terrified of him for the right reasons. And one thing I really appreciate about RM's character is that the show (so far) isn't trying to tell us that she's so badass she doesn't need a weapon to fight a man. So many shows have a strong woman who somehow can beat the crap out of a man despite her much smaller frame. At least with the knives Ani has legitimate means of protecting herself. So far I see her as a female character, instead of a female character if that makes sense, and I like it. She and Ray are the most interesting to me so far. 

 

I don't know TK from anything else, but I think he's doing a good job so far. I'm wondering if he was raped while he served and that's part of the PTSD he's experiencing, which could explain some of the sexual issues he's having (though I did groan at the possible incest). Probably not, but made me wonder.

 

While I'm tired of so many shows being set in LA, I do have to appreciate the different look LA has in this show, with it being more gritty instead of constant shots of beaches and hot girls. 

[iMonrey]

 

The rail is going to run through Central California, not just Vinci (if I'm not mistaken).   And owning the land next to the rail is highly valuable. The state will have to request easements from the land owners, which the state will have to pay for, developers will come with various commercial projects, more industrial facilities, ie, office warehouse, bulk warehouse, etc. as this will be valuable for moving product up and down the state.

 

That makes sense. Maybe I'm stupid but I wish they'd explained this better in the show. I still don't understand who they're buying this land from or what exactly they wanted from the Russian guy.

[Malaprop cocktail]

I'm a bit lost. And I'm not sure if it's worth getting it all untangled. I don't even understand the thing with the CHP guy and the blowjob. Episode 1 I thought he had refused the blowjob, so I was confused that he got suspended. Then watching the "previously on" I thought, duh, he got suspended because he accepted the blowjob and it was a sting. Finally, during the episode, I was back under the impression he'd refused.

 

I can't say I love the acting on this show, with Rachel McAdams and CF being the two exceptions. And the sound and editing seem glaringly bad at times. There was a moment when VV was talking to the guy on the street he'd just had beat up where it sounded like a line was overdubbed/rerecorded. And when McAdams was watching the porn and there was that sweaty close-up of her face, then she took a call, after she hung up the scene cut awkwardly back to that same sweaty close-up. It's small stuff but it takes me out of the show. I don't remember the first season being like that.

[ToastnBacon]

I'm a bit lost. And I'm not sure if it's worth getting it all untangled. I don't even understand the thing with the CHP guy and the blowjob. Episode 1 I thought he had refused the blowjob, so I was confused that he got suspended. Then watching the "previously on" I thought, duh, he got suspended because he accepted the blowjob and it was a sting. Finally, during the episode, I was back under the impression he'd refused.

 

My take on it is she offered and he refused. He busted her for the traffic violation, and she also got in trouble with her parole officer for breaking the terms of her house arrest.

She then made a false accusation against him, for sympathy in the tabloids, or plain old revenge. I think she was supposed to be a Lindsay Lohan type.

[ToastnBacon]

That makes sense. Maybe I'm stupid but I wish they'd explained this better in the show. I still don't understand who they're buying this land from or what exactly they wanted from the Russian guy.

I think they are trying to pool as many investors as possible. They are probably are trying to make money off the deals several different ways, from the initial and secondary land purchases, to development deals at sites that will have rail stops.

Edited July 1, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[blixie]

 

My son, I fear, is losing his fucking mind, like his departed mother. Some people can't handle the deep trip, I fear he is a destroyer, in my day it was about consciousness expansion, tracing the unseen web. Children ARE a disapointment.

 

I'm wondering about this bit of dialogue as it was most reminiscent of old Rust Cohle, and I thought Ritchie Coster, as the Mayor, delivered it in the same bemused yet blotto way. But it's the bit about his son being a destroyer, and his desire to Caspere's death came from a "personal pocket". IDK I'm just wondering if his kid was  part of whatever fucked up shit Caspere was into, and if he used his kid to take Caspere out. He's obviously at cross purposes with Frank, and I think this underlines something Sepinwall pointed out about this season, which is that the MYSTERY is the thing this time, because the characters are less immediately interesting, I'm more preoccupied with who did this freaky shit to this freaky guy and why.

 

I thought overall this episode was a huge improvement, but still is struggling to find any kind of compelling groove, it's almost like a parody of it's first season, which was often on the edge of self-parody itself. I just think Frank is kind of shitty muddled character. When he was in threatening wise guy mode after the car accident, I utterly believed him, street hood I buy, it's the wanna go straight mournful philosopher shit that I don't think any actor could really sell, and makes Frank a very dull boy indeed. I thought Vaughn was particularly good when he excitedly told Ray he detected the fuck out of the situation and found Caspere secret sex house, Funny Vince peaked through there, and this show is CRINE for some levity (of the intentional variety).

 

I thought Ray/Antigone showed some spark fo something via  his rambling hot mess of thoughts, and her almost entirely ignoring him. Hee, instead of being a lot of philosophical hoo ha, it's a bunch of OTT emotional angst, instead of Woody being angry/confused, Antigone is cooly indifferent. I still think the show has problem with women, I couldn't help but be annoyed that her freak flag is about anal and girly porn, when that feels like a very specific male fantasy about fucked up "kinky" women.

 

I'm almost positive Ray, and I have almost no feelings about that one way or the other which is kind of the problem, like he could be dead and I'd be fine with it being a Paul/Antigone going forward, or he could be alive and they could still rock the Ani/Ray partnership and I'd be..fine. All three of them are just kind of there and for me it's the side characters who are carrying this season: Ray's partner, Paul's Mom, Rick Springfield's amazing shrink, the Mayor, and Lera Lynn's music in the bar which I fucking LOVE unreservedly.

 

In terms of Paul, I think he's got a laundry list of hang ups: incestuous ish with mama, ptsd from before and *after* the war, and he definitely likes dick, but he could easily be bisexual. Again I don't blame Taylor, he hasn't been handed a character he's been handed a list of fairly cliched hang ups, he's Tortured Guy. But there are still six episodes left and he may become more than that at some point. 

[pasdetrois]

This episode worked a little better for me; I always need a good story to kick in to hold my interest. I keep thinking Chinatown as I watch this. And all the law enforcement and contractor and thuggy factions are a bit confusing.

 

The dialogue veers between very good to trying-too-hard. I liked the scene between Ray and Antigone during the long car ride. But VV's opening monologue bored me. I think VV is having trouble blending into each scene - it's as if he's just waiting for the moment when he delivers his Serious Actor lines, and you can see him nervously waiting. His verbal beat-down of the guy that got roughed up was off. And I thought Taylor's girlfriend's angry/mournful diatribe was hackneyed.

 

Rachel and Colin are doing very well and Taylor's holding his own. Coincidentally I cannot stand the actresses who play VV's wife and Ray's ex-wife, so I'm annoyed when they take up screen time. Good to see Lolita D - she's a great actress.

 

Redheads - I have a granddaddy with fiery red hair, and not one of his 40+ descendents has it (three generations after him).

Edited July 1, 2015 by pasdetrois

[paigow]

However, I really don't know where the guy who Vince Vaughn was talking to (who drove off in the limo) fits in.

He is part of the Catalyst Group. The holding company buying all the railway land, then selling parcels to investors. Caspar was supposed to pay him the 5 million.

[Princess Sparkle]

I'm a bit lost. And I'm not sure if it's worth getting it all untangled. I don't even understand the thing with the CHP guy and the blowjob. Episode 1 I thought he had refused the blowjob, so I was confused that he got suspended. Then watching the "previously on" I thought, duh, he got suspended because he accepted the blowjob and it was a sting. Finally, during the episode, I was back under the impression he'd refused.

So, how it went down (no pun intended) was: She offered him a blowjob to get out of the ticket, and he refused.  Then, so she wouldn't get in trouble with her parole officer (she mentioned during the stop that she couldn't get in trouble again, and Taylor Kitsch noticed she was wearing an ankle monitor), she made up a story and accused him of pulling her over and demanding a BJ, and when she refused, she got a ticket.  His boss basically said he knew it wasn't true, but they'd have to suspend him with pay until it all blew over (again, no pun intended). 

 

And because he's suspended with pay, that's why one of the officers (I'm not sure from which office) questioned why he was even allowed to be investigating the murder case.

[hks]

Yeah, thanks, I get that -- what I'd like is for it to be done in a way I haven't seen 100x before. The men as well as the women. I don't think this writing, delivered by this cast, is up to lifting it out of trope, and if that doesn't happen, it's boring and self-conscious. 

I agree with you about the tropes, but I have to strongly disagree about how you think Mrs Ray is being portrayed: "I think we're supposed to think she's an uptight bitch who doesn't Get It re: what Ray's sacrificed to avenge her assault and blah blah."  I felt the complete opposite.  I think we're supposed to feel sympathy for her - the way Ray has been around his son, the beat-down of the bully's dad, coupled with the insane threats to both his son and the bully; I think we're meant to know that Ray is a BAD DAD and unsafe around kids. Even her threat to take the paternity test came after he snapped with one of his unhinged threats. The show has portrayed Ray to care desperately about his son, but also be horrible around and for him. I think ultimately, Mrs Ray's reaction is shown to be pretty natural. 

 

Other that that, I agree that the show feels very trope-heavy.  One of the big things about the first season of TD is that it seemed like such a fresh and original presentation. This second season will always feel like a lesser copy.  (I will still watch it and hope that the good will eventually outweigh the bad). 

Edited July 1, 2015 by hks

[Alapaki]

However, I really don't know where the guy who Vince Vaughn was talking to (who drove off in the limo) fits in.

He is part of the Catalyst Group. The holding company buying all the railway land, then selling parcels to investors. Caspar was supposed to pay him the 5 million.

 

Thanks.  That makes sense.  I wasn't sure what the Catalyst Group was.  We also heard that they were loaning dead-dickless-guy a car.

 

Other that that, I agree that the show feels very trope-heavy.  One of the big things about the first season of TD is that it seemed like such a fresh and original presentation. This second season will always feel like a lesser copy.  (I will still watch it and hope that the good will eventually outweigh the bad).

 

 

I think it's difficult for any noir piece set in Southern California not to seem derivative of the classics (as someone mentioned Chinatown upthread).  I agree the thing that made Season 1 refreshing was taking the film noir vibe to a completely different, but equally seedy, setting.

[SFoster21]

Seriously, the first show took the entire murder mystery from Red Riding, books and movies, British. High-placed abusers, animal masks, children drugged, raped and murdered, victims posed with animal parts (swan wings.) Even the victim who outed the thing, a gay hustler, was lifted whole cloth from that series. There are no new stories.

[blixie]

 

And because he's suspended with pay, that's why one of the officers (I'm not sure from which office) questioned why he was even allowed to be investigating the murder case.

 

No he just knows Paul's not an investigator/detective, but Paul says the State owns the case and that's why he's there, a CHP finding the body is the States only cudgel to go after Vinci corruption (assuming THAT is what the State is really doing/after), he's there way to keep their finger in the pie. While maybe Ray's partner isn't as dirty as he is, I think he's rightfully suspicious of this whole case. Ray was right to point out to Antigone, if the State really wanted to crack it open it's strange they are relying on a CHiP and a County Sheriff, and well...HIM. They were probably all chosen for a reason and it wasn't to solve the case.

[iMonrey]

My gut reaction after the second episode is the same as I had after the first - that they kind of bit off more than they could chew this season. There are too many moving parts and and too many leads with too much baggage. The things that really hooked fans in the first season are mostly absent this time around. 

 

Having said that, it's more obviously a failure to connect the dots - whether it's my failure or the show's - because no series should aspire to be less ambitious. 

[magdalene]

No he just knows Paul's not an investigator/detective, but Paul says the State owns the case and that's why he's there, a CHP finding the body is the States only cudgel to go after Vinci corruption (assuming THAT is what the State is really doing/after), he's there way to keep their finger in the pie. While maybe Ray's partner isn't as dirty as he is, I think he's rightfully suspicious of this whole case. Ray was right to point out to Antigone, if the State really wanted to crack it open it's strange they are relying on a CHiP and a County Sheriff, and well...HIM. They were probably all chosen for a reason and it wasn't to solve the case.

Well, Ray definitely has - and the other two may as well - have issues in their past they could be blackmailed and controlled with.

[marcee]

It took me a long time to understand what was going on in the first season also and I binge watched (which, you'd think, would make it easier). It helped to read the boards. I'm sure I would've been even more lost had I not experienced the "oooohhhhh" moments I got from reading the comments. I expect this will be the same. It all starts out sort of abstract and convoluted, but it begins to come together in a more comprehensible way somewhere in the middle...then I have to determine if I want to watch it all over again now that I've "gotten it" or if I just want to continue with the ride and process it as it comes.

[Princess Sparkle]

No he just knows Paul's not an investigator/detective, but Paul says the State owns the case and that's why he's there, a CHP finding the body is the States only cudgel to go after Vinci corruption (assuming THAT is what the State is really doing/after), he's there way to keep their finger in the pie. While maybe Ray's partner isn't as dirty as he is, I think he's rightfully suspicious of this whole case. Ray was right to point out to Antigone, if the State really wanted to crack it open it's strange they are relying on a CHiP and a County Sheriff, and well...HIM. They were probably all chosen for a reason and it wasn't to solve the case.

Dammit - I almost had it!  This is why I always end up having to watch the episodes twice.

[susannot]

Thanks.  That makes sense.  I wasn't sure what the Catalyst Group was.  We also heard that they were loaning dead-dickless-guy a car.

 

 

I think it's difficult for any noir piece set in Southern California not to seem derivative of the classics (as someone mentioned Chinatown upthread).  I agree the thing that made Season 1 refreshing was taking the film noir vibe to a completely different, but equally seedy, setting.

This sums up everything for me. Yes, it is definitely Chinatown, except with railroad rather than water. Remember that some right wing states ruled by wingnut governors (like mine) turned down money for high speed rail. CA gov Jerry Brown, not being stupid, glommed on to all the available money. It makes sense that it is now being spread around and criminal elements are getting a part of it.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

Perhaps I am very wrong with looking at recurring, potential visual symbolism. It seems to me that the overhead shots of the highways  might be symbolic. Each part of that mess of roadways lead somewhere, right?

 

I really do believe that they are presenting a very convoluted picture in the early episodes and eventually it will be be more apparent and what we see will make much more sense. 

 

Do I wish the bureaucratic/ criminal situation were clearer? Yes. I really do. But, I can't expect it to become and stay more confusing. That would be like relying on 8 episodes filled with cheap thrills. I can't see that being the case here. A David Lynch series, yes. I could see cheap thrills in abundance for the upcoming Twin Peaks.