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On 3/5/2021 at 9:33 AM, TVMovieBuff said:

The whole thing is surreal. We are all flawed human beings, we all have lots to learn because no one on the planet knows everything there is to know about race relations. Not even Rachel Lindsay. All for a situation that CH didn't create.

He created HIS situation the minute he defended racist behavior.

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On 3/7/2021 at 11:24 AM, EllenB said:

He created HIS situation the minute he defended racist behavior.

He didn't say "oh yippee, an antebellum party; sounds like fun". He only suggested we ask Rachael her side of the story. More like the kind of thing a moderator would say. 

Has anyone seen photos of this party? I am curious. 

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1 hour ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Has anyone seen photos of this party? I am curious. 

He said more than "let's wait to hear from Rachael." He wouldn't be in trouble if that's all he said.  As to your question, yes, the photos are out there. That's how this started.

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20 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

He said more than "let's wait to hear from Rachael." He wouldn't be in trouble if that's all he said.  As to your question, yes, the photos are out there. That's how this started.

Then I clearly don't know enough about this situation to offer any comment. So I will stop. 

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Bachelor viewer found Matt's Venmo account and charged him $1.00 for wasting her time.

Guess what Matt did....he paid her!

He then said, "Use the $1.00 to buy yourself some Chapstick", throwing her a little shade over her chapped lips (she had said she needed Chapstick).

I appreciate his sense of humor about this!

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/matt-james-responds-bachelor-nation-213700660.html

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I don't agree with the decision to replace Chris Harrison. He's made a mistake - out of ignorance rather than maliciousness, IMO - and has accepted the backlash and publicly apologized. Benching him for this season ATFR was appropriate punishment, but removing him from an entire season is taking it too far. Nobody associated with the franchise is a model citizen, so this feels like scapegoating.

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I feel like at some point, this show & producers & host aren’t actually making “mistakes” here. They are making choices.  Perhaps it would be good for a re-set year where hopefully no further “mistakes” will be made with a new team. 

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The choices not to vet contestants better and/or intentionally cast people with racist histories are a systemic issue and should absolutely change. My problem is that it looks like CH is being scapegoated for something for which the entire production team is responsible (especially Mike Fleiss). Making a public commitment to making changes behind the scenes would be a much stronger statement than replacing CH with two franchise has-beens who want to extend their 15 minutes.

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I feel like we are pretty close in our positions. You’ve covered a lot of what I was thinking. I’d also add that it was ridiculous Harrison wasn’t better prepared for the Extra interview and leaned into horrible defenses that made it clear he had only one mission there. A cursory review of historical time lines, which he had ample time to check, showed how horrible his response was...especially trying to challenge his black interviewer when spewing nonsense. He’s also listed as an EP.  I just think he needs timeout from face of franchise. Or, honestly, whole franchise needs timeout & come back and tell us how they have fixed system of “ whoops, how did that racist get in here” that seems a bit recurring. 

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3 minutes ago, pennben said:

Or, honestly, whole franchise needs timeout & come back and tell us how they have fixed system of “ whoops, how did that racist get in here” that seems a bit recurring. 

That would have been the best course of action, I think. They could have moved the Bachelorette season out by a few months like last year and given themselves time to implement meaningful changes instead of trotting out Krass Kaitlyn and Toothy Tayshia as a distraction.

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1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

The choices not to vet contestants better and/or intentionally cast people with racist histories are a systemic issue and should absolutely change. My problem is that it looks like CH is being scapegoated for something for which the entire production team is responsible (especially Mike Fleiss). Making a public commitment to making changes behind the scenes would be a much stronger statement than replacing CH with two franchise has-beens who want to extend their 15 minutes.

In the statement I read, it sounds like they're looking to improve representation behind-the-scenes as well.  So while Chris is the public face of the franchise, it doesn't look like the show thinks that's all they need to change.

My guess is that Chris Harrison's in-network interview with Michael Strahan was a test interview to see how well he'd handle answering questions about the fallout from this season of The Bachelor and how people would react to his answers.  When reactions were meh at best, that's when it was decided he'd sit this season of The Bachelorette out. 

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Honestly, wasn’t this supposed to all be “fixed” last year before this season?  Seriously, what did those meetings look like that we end up one year later and the franchise looks even worse?’ 

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2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

That would have been the best course of action, I think. They could have moved the Bachelorette season out by a few months like last year and given themselves time to implement meaningful changes instead of trotting out Krass Kaitlyn and Toothy Tayshia as a distraction.

They need to move the Bachelorette season out by a few months so they can add travel back into the show. This season has been a snooze due to boring dates and the same location over and over again. They could have put the show on pause to "reconfigure the franchise" and give us something interesting to watch when it comes back. The States is doing a great job with vaccinations compared to other countries so, it would be great if they could travel to various resorts throughout the States when it returns. 

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I feel the department team that should have their bottoms paddled are the ones who do the background checks on the contestants.  (Figurative bottom-paddling, not literal. That would be violence, and I apologize if I sounded like I was advocating violence.)

How much of a big deal would all this have been if Rachael Kirkconnell had not lasted as long on the show as she did? What if she had been a 3rd or 4th week boot? I think the story would still have come out, but to lesser publicity.

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3 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I feel the department team that should have their bottoms paddled are the ones who do the background checks on the contestants.  (Figurative bottom-paddling, not literal. That would be violence, and I apologize if I sounded like I was advocating violence.)

How much of a big deal would all this have been if Rachael Kirkconnell had not lasted as long on the show as she did? What if she had been a 3rd or 4th week boot? I think the story would still have come out, but to lesser publicity.

I would be interested in seeing what guidelines they are given for the background checks.  Someone in authority must decide WHAT would be disqualifying and what they should look for.  It would help to know if they didn’t know or if the show decided “who cares”?

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Booting Chris Harrison as host after so many seasons is just dumb. He's an Executive Producer and knows how to keep a straight face while dealing with every manner of producer driven contrived situation on an as close to fiction as possible "reality" show. OK, so he made some insensitive comments he shouldn't have. He's since apologized. If every tv performer who ever said something insensitive was banished from the airwaves, tvland would be a helluva lonely place. I'm not a huge Chris Harrison fan. He lives near me and I've seen him out in public not tending to his unruly children when they were young. But, on the show, he maintains his cool and I've never seen him be purposely rude to anyone -- even when he could be forgiven for it when coping with an asshole. Ultimately, this is just a stupid tv show and for him, it's a job -- one he does well and deserves to keep. 

Edited by Hpmec
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2 hours ago, Hpmec said:

If every tv performer who ever said something insensitive was banished from the airwaves, tvland would be a helluva lonely place.

Nah, good riddance in my opinion. This is the same reasoning as to why we still have rapists with huge careers. Because if we kick out everyone who committed a crime, or perpetuated racist rhetoric, well we would have to find another show to watch 2 hours a week for a few months out of a year? omg what will we do. 

There are millions of talented people who don't get a break because we continuously give breaks to racist, rapist, murderous, horrible people. Get them off  my screen and I will gladly take someone who can read the room in 2021 and doesn't support racism. 

Harrison has 20 years of work under his belt. He will do just fine to not be on TV any more. His millions weren't stolen from him. He lost a job. Like many of us have, for doing a hell of a lot less. 

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Doing a deep-dive into a contestant's social media & background is good, but nothing but chance could have unearthed the Rachael photos from the Antebellum party. 

That photo was never in HER media or posted by her, that was an absolute fluke that somebody else dug it out when they saw Rachael on TV.  (Much like the Ick Nick video proving he lost Andi to Josh)

I would think that statistically, there aren't that many BIG skeletons in the closets of the potential contestant pool backgrounds..  Thousands of folks apply, are interviewed, vetted, backgrounded and wait-listed for each show.  Everybody has a few things in their past that aren't great, but probably few literal show-stoppers.  If it's not a felony conviction with prison time, I don't think Fleiss cares. 

So now the host job that most people think isn't even challenging enough for ONE man to do is now going to be done by TWO women?  WTF are they going to be doing?  Is one of them going to be with the Bachelorette or the guys at all times? 

Too much, too late.  Idiots. 

Edited by leighdear
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4 hours ago, Hpmec said:

Booting Chris Harrison as host after so many seasons is just dumb

I understand their decision but I think they could have missed a good opportunity to actually have an open dialogue about race and what Chris Harrison learned from his experiences. It could have been an opportunity to show that an individual can learn and grow beyond his/her own frame of reference and learn from others of different races who have had much different and much tougher journeys.

I am just concerned that in general our society is becoming unforgiving of anyone who make mistakes.

The constant shaming of anyone who makes an inappropriate comment irregardless of their personal actions is incredibly disturbing.

Forgiveness and grace are incredibly important for human beings.

Now, I don’t know any back story on Chris Harrison and he did mangle that interview. However, Fliess is still in charge and it’s his show, and really, he is problematic in many ways.

My life experiences are far different than my good friend who is black and grew up in segregated South Georgia. I’ve learned so much from her and I know I could tell her anything and she wouldn’t judge me. I am too ashamed to share with her one incident in my life which I had absolutely no earthly idea may not have been appropriate (it was minor, but still...).

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52 minutes ago, leighdear said:

Doing a deep-dive into a contestant's social media & background is good, but nothing but chance could have unearthed the Rachael photos from the Antebellum party. 

That photo was never in HER media or posted by her, that was an absolute fluke that somebody else dug it out when they saw Rachael on TV.  (Much like the Ick Nick video proving he lost Andi to Josh)

I didn't know this detail. I've always been curious about the Bachelor/ette vetting process in general.

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6 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

You’d think they would have learned after Garrett. 

Which one? lol

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39 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Which one? lol

Wait, there’s more than one???? Help an old lady out here!

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34 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Wait, there’s more than one???? Help an old lady out here!

There was also a Garrett on Hannah B.'s season (the one with whom she did the naked bungee jump in Riga) and he also had some cringeworthy IG activity. His was less specifically racist and more generally ignorant (e.g. he liked a climate change denying post among other things).

1 hour ago, adore said:

I didn't know this detail. I've always been curious about the Bachelor/ette vetting process in general.

I'm convinced that at least in one case - Lee on Rachel's season  - a contestant was cast *because* of their social media activity. TPTB wanted to create conflict between him and several Black contestants. It's not a coincidence that he was put on a 2-on-1 date with Kenny.

Edited by chocolatine
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2 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Wait, there’s more than one???? Help an old lady out here!

I haven't been a Bachelor watcher as long as many of the posters here, but I'll do my best! I believe there are at least three problematic Garretts. 

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

There was also a Garrett on Hannah B.'s season (the one with whom she did the naked bungee jump in Riga) and he also had some cringeworthy IG activity. His was less specifically racist and more generally ignorant (e.g. he liked a climate change denying post among other things).

I'm convinced that at least in one case - Lee on Rachel's season  - a contestant was cast *because* of their social media activity. TPTB wanted to create conflict between him and several Black contestants. It's not a coincidence that he was put on a 2-on-1 date with Kenny.

IDK. I think this is one of the posts he sounds racist. 

"Whites, blacks, greens, blues, reds are all in prison because they cannot do the right thing NOT b/c of any sort of racism or prejudice."  

He also made some gross comments to someone who was raped. He got a lot of backlash for this fiasco and got off SM afterwards. 

https://heavy.com/entertainment/the-bachelor/garrett-powell-bachelorette-rape-sexual-assault/

I remember he seemed like an okay guy on the show, but I find his social media really disappointing. I cut folks older than me some slack when they're not perfectly woke, but Garrett is younger than me. He should really know better.   

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Thanks @chocolatine! I barely remember him but I could never forget Lee. Good lord!

Besides Becca's ex, I count this guy as one of the Garretts. Lee's last name is actually Garrett. I did not watch Rachel's season, but I remember reading about Garretts in the franchise being problematic. 

Edited by RealHousewife
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33 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

IDK. I think this is one of the posts he sounds racist. 

"Whites, blacks, greens, blues, reds are all in prison because they cannot do the right thing NOT b/c of any sort of racism or prejudice."  

He also made some gross comments to someone who was raped. He got a lot of backlash for this fiasco and got off SM afterwards. 

https://heavy.com/entertainment/the-bachelor/garrett-powell-bachelorette-rape-sexual-assault/

I knew about the first one, I just meant it was one in a series of ignorant posts about several different topics, so he seemed more like general idiot than specifically racist. I'd never heard about the latter incident though; that's several orders of magnitude worse than his ignorant likes.

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3 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I knew about the first one, I just meant it was one in a series of ignorant posts about several different topics, so he seemed more like general idiot than specifically racist. I'd never heard about the latter incident though; that's several orders of magnitude worse than his ignorant likes.

Some of it could definitely be due to ignorance and not hate, but yeah he just doesn't sound like the best guy overall. I too was especially grossed out by his rape comments. 

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On 3/12/2021 at 10:21 PM, chocolatine said:

The choices not to vet contestants better and/or intentionally cast people with racist histories are a systemic issue and should absolutely change. My problem is that it looks like CH is being scapegoated for something for which the entire production team is responsible (especially Mike Fleiss). Making a public commitment to making changes behind the scenes would be a much stronger statement than replacing CH with two franchise has-beens who want to extend their 15 minutes.

Yes. This. I have no idea to what extent potential contestants are vetted on this show, but, realistically, how many fame seeking wanna be's (which is pretty much all this franchise attracts nowadays) are squeaky clean on social media -- their own posts, photos, tweets, and those they're tagged in? You could probably count them on one hand, and they wouldn't make for good tv. Fleiss needs flawed people to create drama and keep the viewers tuned in. A young white woman from a southern state who attended an antebellum themed party and enters a relationship with a black man on the show is exactly the kind of scenario Fleiss loves. Controversy boosts ratings, and tv producers are all about ratings. I haven't seen any evidence that Chris Harrison is racist, and I don't think removing him from the next bachelorette season serves any purpose. His apology and a sincere effort to understand where he derailed should be enough. And the buck should stop with Fleiss, but he seems to be MIA. 

Edited by Hpmec
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6 hours ago, weightyghost said:

This is the same reasoning as to why we still have rapists with huge careers

Are you seriously comparing a rapist to a guy who made a stupid verbal mistake?

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7 hours ago, weightyghost said:

Nah, good riddance in my opinion. This is the same reasoning as to why we still have rapists with huge careers. Because if we kick out everyone who committed a crime, or perpetuated racist rhetoric, well we would have to find another show to watch 2 hours a week for a few months out of a year? omg what will we do. 

There are millions of talented people who don't get a break because we continuously give breaks to racist, rapist, murderous, horrible people. Get them off  my screen and I will gladly take someone who can read the room in 2021 and doesn't support racism. 

Harrison has 20 years of work under his belt. He will do just fine to not be on TV any more. His millions weren't stolen from him. He lost a job. Like many of us have, for doing a hell of a lot less. 

Nowhere did I indicate that anyone should give a job to a sexual predator or any other convicted criminal. To my knowledge, Chris Harrison has never been charged with rape or any other serious crime. He bungled an interview and came off as racially insensitive. True. Does that mean he should be banished from the airwaves forever? Making a thoughtless insensitive comment and commiting a crime are two very different things. One calls for an apology and sincere effort to learn and do better. The other calls for prison time. 

Edited by Hpmec
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These people... Chris is Jesus now? Jesus Chris Superhost.

There are a lot of things about the New Testament which would have come off differently if they'd been said by Daisy Duck.

what would you call a religion based on the teachings of Chris Harrison?  (my phone tried to autocorrect to Christ Harrison! Ha!)

Christianity is already taken. Rosetafari? ZoRoseastrianism?

It would be the MOST DRAMATIC RELIGION ever, except for those people worshipping for the Wrong Reasons.

When the lead dumps someone, is it because "you're just not my messiah"?

I'm sorry I haven't had coffee yet. I'll stop before i accidentally insult a real religion 🙂

37D62AB0-4A6B-4A7F-9922-53713799409D.jpeg

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7 hours ago, MsTree said:

Are you seriously comparing a rapist to a guy who made a stupid verbal mistake?

No, I said it's the same reasoning. "oh well he apologized. Oh well it was a long time ago. Does he deserve to lose his whole career because of a silly mistake?" 

Yes, he does. He made a calculated decision to go on television and defend a racist action. Not a mistake. 

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24 minutes ago, weightyghost said:

No, I said it's the same reasoning. "oh well he apologized. Oh well it was a long time ago. Does he deserve to lose his whole career because of a silly mistake?" 

Yes, he does. He made a calculated decision to go on television and defend a racist action. Not a mistake. 

He was also defending a woman who was receiving death threats. I believe her family was receiving death threats, too. 
For people to reduce the entire reaction to “Chris is a racist because he defended a racist” is disingenuous. 
He is 100% the sacrificial lamb for the actions of the entire production company. The Bachelor LOVES controversy and conflict. I’m excited to see how they will relaunch the franchise with the new hosts. I’m sure we will have at least 50% BIPOC, a couple of gender non-conforming women... and maybe some plus size women. Let’s get some real representation when it comes to dating shows on TV. No more vapid, blonde wannabe influencers. 😊

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4 hours ago, watchingtvaddict said:

. I’m excited to see how they will relaunch the franchise with the new hosts. I’m sure we will have at least 50% BIPOC, a couple of gender non-conforming women... and maybe some plus size women. Let’s get some real representation when it comes to dating shows on TV. No more vapid, blonde wannabe influencers. 😊

Sounds like a big improvement!

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I'm confused as to the racism rules - mainly who they apply to and how they are applied. I used to live in Virginia, where we had a governor who had pictures surface from college parties where he was in black face and/or a KKK robe. He never apologized and certainly no one uttered a peep about removing him and he still sits in the governor's mansion, useless as ever, the issue really all but ignored. But now there is all manner of ruckus around and the removal of - at least for now - the host of a non-serious dating show for what amounts to a far lesser offense. One of the two has a more serious job with a more serious charge, yet who is on the apology tour and out of a job? Just think of how ridiculous that is. My sister still lives in the area and recently sent me a Washington Post article on this nonsense. Apparently the powers that be at ABC have done work on demographics and, like it or not, the core audience is white women of a certain age and the seasons with the lowest ratings were those with the 2 black leads. It is what it is. This message board probably does not reflect that majority of people out there who JUST want to watch a reality show without getting bogged down in politics, racism, what is and isn't fair, why there are no fat people on the show, etc. Anyway, i've watched every season and am done with the whole thing without Chris and I hope any revamp with these two nitwits as hosts tanks.

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19 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

I understand their decision but I think they could have missed a good opportunity to actually have an open dialogue about race and what Chris Harrison learned from his experiences. It could have been an opportunity to show that an individual can learn and grow beyond his/her own frame of reference and learn from others of different races who have had much different and much tougher journeys.

There's still time.  The only thing we know is that he won't be hosting the upcoming season of The Bachelorette.  Nothing has been released yet beyond that.  Since that filming probably starts rather soon, if it hasn't already begun, it's probably too soon for him to be having those discussions. 

As for the question of forgiveness... I do believe in forgiveness; however, when it comes to things like this, forgiveness, in practice, can often feel treated as casual. 

Survivorau GIF by Australian Survivor

Because yeah, there are always "worse" things but things like what Chris did are probably more common in society.

And does forgiveness always mean an automatic return to "normalcy?" Does it mean that a very very rich man needs to get his job back immediately when many viewers are going to associate him with defending a racist, lumping critics in with those issuing threats and talking over a black woman in an interview?  Not IMO. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Irlandesa
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Join us on March 25 for an exclusive look inside Bachelor nation, featuring former contestants @kevin.c.wendt and @astridloch , along with PR powerhouse, Lori Krebs @lorikpublicrelations .

Get ready for an exciting virtual event that will give you an insiders view into life on the Bachelor, the impact of social media, the transition from reality TV to reality, and more!

https://bit.ly/2ZmSe8w

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On 3/14/2021 at 9:48 AM, watchingtvaddict said:

a couple of gender non-conforming women... 

The franchise has already said this won't happen.  Because you then have the possibility of contestants hooking up with each other in the mansion, instead of focusing on and cat-fighting over the Bachelor.  

Demi came out as bi-sexual on BIP, not on The Bachelor.  She admitted she hid that information from the producers.   I don't have a net source, I just remember when she was coming out to Derek on BIP, she said was afraid they wouldn't cast her.  

And plus-size was tried before.  A gorgeous female surfer on Chris's season with healthy curves was booted on night 1.  No more ladies over a 6 or so since then.   

  

Edited by leighdear
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31 minutes ago, leighdear said:

And plus-size was tried before.  A gorgeous female surfer on Chris's season with healthy curves was booted on night 1.  No more ladies over a 6 or so since then.     

I remember her! She's both a surfer and a fitness model - I saw her in a print ad for Athleta a few years ago - so she must have a very interesting life, but she got zero screen time after her intro package. But I guess she's better off not being involved with this franchise, and definitely dodged a bullet by not attracting Chris's attention.

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2 hours ago, leighdear said:

And plus-size was tried before.  A gorgeous female surfer on Chris's season with healthy curves was booted on night 1.  No more ladies over a 6 or so since then.   

I looked her up, and yes Bo Stanley is a beautiful woman. I always noticed that despite being known for the beautiful contestants, they're not all knockouts facially. I've also noticed despite not being great on racial issues, the franchise does feature contestants of different colors. But since I've watched the shows, I've never seen anyone more than around a size 6. It seems like they just try to cast any 20-something who's got a bikini model body. 

Edited by RealHousewife
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And sadly, surfer-girl Bo was probably more physically fit, strong and healthy than most of the rail-thin waifs that get cast.  Most look like they can barely hold their heads up, much less shred waves in 15 ft. seas. 

Occasionally you get a Salma or Ashley I that's buxom and curvy, but of course they still starve themselves to squeeze into those borrowed gowns that are a bit to small and you KNOW cut off their circulation.  Sadly, if a girl doesn't have an eating disorder when she gets there, she may well have one when she's booted out.  The show is just toxic on SO many levels. 

 

Edited by leighdear
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Is Rachael really considered racist because she dressed in an Antebellum costume?  My friend dressed up as Scarlett O’Hara in the 90’s in HS.  Would that be considered racist then?  Would it now?   

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51 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

Is Rachael really considered racist because she dressed in an Antebellum costume?  My friend dressed up as Scarlett O’Hara in the 90’s in HS.  Would that be considered racist then?  Would it now?   

It's been a long time (20+ years) since I've read Gone With The Wind as a teenager, and I didn't know much about US history at the time (I grew up in Europe), but I remember being very uncomfortable when Scarlett talked about how well her family treated their slaves and how the slaves would be so much worse off if freed. So yes, I'd say that glorifying Scarlett O'Hara should be considered racist.

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7 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

It's been a long time (20+ years) since I've read Gone With The Wind as a teenager, and I didn't know much about US history at the time (I grew up in Europe), but I remember being very uncomfortable when Scarlett talked about how well her family treated their slaves and how the slaves would be so much worse off if freed. So yes, I'd say that glorifying Scarlett O'Hara should be considered racist.

But if your not thinking or knowing about the reason behind it I don’t think it’s racist.  Would my friend be considered racist now for dressing like Scarlet Ohare 25 years ago?

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Just the fact that museums, etc. have moved from calling people "slaves" to "enslaved people" really turned my head around. It should have been done a LONG time ago.

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[n/m got caught up in distraction]

Edited by pennben

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35 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

But if your not thinking or knowing about the reason behind it I don’t think it’s racist.  Would my friend be considered racist now for dressing like Scarlet Ohare 25 years ago?

I don't know your friend and don't know what her motivation was at the time. I do think it's important to consider the full implications of glorifying a person (real or fictional) and the things for which they stand.

Edited by chocolatine
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