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On 2/14/2021 at 1:22 AM, RealHousewife said:

I'm not for this cancel culture, and I'm sure Chris will be back. I also get that Rachael is young, and no one is perfect. I actually really liked her and was disappointed by the disturbing stuff I heard. Chris also disappointed me in that interview. I thought he was a lot savvier and nicer. 

I

 

I agree he shouldn’t lose his whole career but I don’t like the excuse of age for Rachel.   She wasn’t 12 years old, she was in college, supposedly educated enough to make it that far.   Unless rural Georgia isn’t teaching America’s history especially in the South and the meaning of the confederate flag she has zero excuses . 

 

On 2/14/2021 at 1:22 AM, RealHousewife said:

 

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On 2/14/2021 at 3:37 AM, EllenB said:

The phrase "cancel culture" sounds suspiciously like people thinking racists shouldn't be held accountable.

That’s insulting

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5 hours ago, YorkieMom15 said:

I am very impressed with the discussion in this forum. I read a few others and have never seen such respectful discussion on a sensitive topic. Thank you all for restoring my faith in humanity! What to say about this? I have watched every season of this franchise. In twenty years, Chris Harrison has had plenty of opportunity to display characteristics of racism himself. To my knowledge, he hasn't. I am certain if he had, we would all know by now. Prior to this one interview, myself and my family and friends spoke about how much he truly loves this franchise, how close he becomes with so many of the people from the show, how normal he seems to be, and how he even makes fun of himself in an effort to entertain us. In a instant, everything changed. How is that ok? How is it ok that a certain interviewer, who for some reason, seems to have chosen herself as the authority of all things Bachelor, so easily discard a person whose horrible sin was requesting time for someone else to explain herself before being vilified and judged? How many of us would feel comfortable if every single note we wrote in high school or every single photo we took with a disc camera back in the 80's became public? And then, before we had the chance to say anything, a friend of ours was literally destroyed on national television for trying to give us space to think? And finally, how many of the hundreds even thousands of people in the Bachelor franchise call Chris Harrison a friend? How many knew him long before the interviewer did and how many would love to step up and support him as the friend they know? I wonder. I wonder how many are afraid to, because they know that they would be destroyed as well. What happened to grace? What happened to empathy? What happened to respect? The interviewer had no problem with Chris Harrison when he was a cheerleader for her. Perhaps she could use some time to reflect as well.

Agree with you so much! I was super annoyed by his interview, but once I found out so many people wanted him out of a job, I thought holy crap, this has gotten out of hand. I'm a millennial who grew up in a diverse environment (growing up in the south). So I totally get those people who've never been bigoted in any way, but how many of us word everything perfectly, are PC all the time, and all our family and friends are super woke as well? Whatever color you are and wherever you're from, I doubt that everyone you love is perfect and would know just what to say in Chris' shoes. I understand he's a public figure with a hosting job, but I wish people would remember he's a human being, just like your grandma who may be against interracial dating, just like your aunt who is against gay marriage. 

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Yes we can forgive but speaking of slippery slope, couldn't it go both ways?  Are we supposed to just hand wave casual racism when it happens without any consequences?  I think that has already happened for far too long.  It's not that I don't understand how it can happen.  I constantly try to be aware but still stumble every now and then.  Chris being a public figure is a blessing and a curse in this regard.  He has the privilege of having his voice amplified but it can work against him too. 

I feel like apologizing and doing better is enough in an instance like this. We didn't find out Chris a white supremacist, was using the n word, or is against interracial dating and hates the idea of Rachael and Matt together. For there to be a petition to get rid of a guy who was with the show from the beginning because he's not the best on racial issues is taking it too far for me. 

1 hour ago, Stats Queen said:

Thank you for all of this. Second chances seem to not matter any more.

Southern does not mean racist and I’m getting really sick of these stereotypes. I’ve lived in “the South” for 26 years and I am really exhausted from this constant labeling of all the South as racist. It is no longer 1965 nor let alone 1865.  
 

I’ve lived in several areas of the US and there are awful and good people everywhere 

I have a diverse background, but people look at me and see a white chick, perhaps a bit exotic. I do have family and friends who deal with racism, and they all tell me it's worse in the south, smaller towns in particular. I do believe there are good and bad everywhere. We all hear stereotypes of Californians being more superficial (LA in particular) and East coasters being more brash (especially New Yorkers). Southerners have their good stereotypes, like hospitality. Do you think it's offensive when people comment at all as far as their experiences with different areas of the country and different towns? I liked the post that mentioned why the show featured so much country music (wondered about the music since I started watching) but didn't think much about the rest of the post and the implication against southerners. Didn't think the poster meant harm. 

Maybe it's not PC to say, but I've heard more racism from the folks I know from small towns, everything from n word usage, being strongly against interracial dating, and even mocking the tragic death of George Floyd. I feel like there's this balancing act of "Don't be racist. Be forgiving too. Remember, all colors are racist, not just white people. But definitely take up extra for this group. But wait don't generalize people from this region. Don't see color. Always see color. Don't be PC, I want to know what you really think. Wait, that's racist!"

I've never had anyone call me racist, but I'm sure whoever you are someone somewhere would cancel you if given the opportunity. Maybe you don't say anything that offends the black community, but you say something that offends a different community. I've definitely gotten into arguments with people over racial issues, mostly this last year. I've felt like both "woke police" when I call people out for being bigoted, but I've also felt like, please chill. This person meant no harm. You may not be racist, but you are still hateful. I'm even nervous posting this here, but like Yorkiemom said, luckily most people are respectfully discussing. 

Edited by RealHousewife
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On 2/15/2021 at 7:54 PM, Irlandesa said:

I don't know if you've watched the fifteen minute interview but Rachel didn't take down Chris Harrison.  Chris Harrison took down Chris Harrison.  She was respectful of him. He took it upon himself to go in the bizarre direction he took the interview.  And once the interview made it to the air, it was people watching it that started pointing out what was wrong with it--not Rachel.

While that may be true, Rachel could have dropped it...but instead she went in for the kill. She found her glory moment, and is now enjoying all the media attention she's getting from this interview. And mark my words, she WILL cash in on this "bite the hand that feeds you" push-back.

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15 hours ago, Just Carol said:

One of Harrison's problems is that he gets too close emotionally with the bachelorettes.  He wants to defend them at all costs, no matter what they've done.  Recall his ridiculous "pride" for Hannah Brown... He needs to take a step back from the show, but also from getting too close with the contestants.

I agree...and that's another reason why he probably said what he said. He apparently felt very comfortable being interviewed by Rachel Lindsay and didn't feel the need to censor his words. Little did he realize that as protective of the bachelorettes as Chris is/was, Lindsay wasn't going to "protect" or let his words slide. IMO, she could have easily said, "well, I guess we'll just have to ask Rachel herself exactly what she was thinking at the time".

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10 hours ago, rebel2u said:

Whatever happened to second chances? And loyalty? Chris has been the face of the bachelor franchise for well over 20 years, hasn't he?  My impression is that he has served the franchise well.  Couldn't TPTB come out with a statement that, in his interview with Rachel, Chris made statements that they didn't agree with, that they have discussed this with Chris and a statement from him will be forthcoming?  And privately tell Chris that he is getting a second chance but there won't be a third?  This cancel culture with the thought that one strike and you're out is, to me, ridiculous.  And speaking of loyalty. . . Rachel was chosen to be the first Bachelorette of color.  She wasn't their only option.  To be selected is, in my opinion, a huge gift.  As I understand it, she left her job as a lawyer in Dallas and now lives in LA and does a bachelor podcast with Becca. She also has done television work.  I doubt any of these opportunities would have been possible without her exposure as the bachelorette.  And she found her life partner on her bachelorette season.  Biting the hand that feeds you comes to mind.    

We do need diversity in the bachelor universe.  TPTB should be actively recruiting a Native American lead. Have we ever even had a Native American as a contestant? We've had leads from Canada and Venezuela and an Italian prince.  What about a Hispanic lead?  I would love to see Abigail as a lead.  (She was adorable at 18, btw.)

We also seem to be jumping on the South with both feet.  I've seen it implied that Southern = racist.  On my short street, we have 2 interracial couples and 3 additional households that identify as LGBTQ.  There are no problems, we all get along and-- so far-- no crosses have been burned.  

The US in the late 1800's attempted to annihilate the Native American population.  They were removed from the lands where they hunted and farmed and were segregated in reservations where the land was dusty and dry.  They were hit harder by covid 19 than almost anywhere else in the nation.  Many have no running water and substandard housing. My dad took a cross country trip a few years ago and said the reservations were the saddest things he had ever seen. I wonder, with Rachael being pilloried on a nationwide basis with such vitriol that the hatred expressed could follow her for a long time, do those who live in states with Indian reservations ever stop to consider the institutional racism in their own backyard? 

I'm tapping out of Bachelor Nation, thus this long rant.  I'm usually a wrong reasons viewer and, as I've said before, those of you who are extra-snarkey and swear, thank you.  You're my people.  It was a lot of fun for years but less so now.  And if it's not fun, why bother?

My parting shots:

Rachel, when you are in riot gear, everything looks like a riot.

And the South is different from the rest of the nation.  We have a legacy of slavery to contend with and essentially the only part of the nation that has had a war fought on her land.

It's easy to stereotype the South but hard to understand it if you're not from here. And I hope we don't cancel Chris and Rachael when they deserve what used to be commonplace but is less so now---a second chance.

 

I love all of this . It’s so hard to believe this many people are so irrational and have no loyalty . There’s so many people behind his “ stepping down “ and are hoping he gets fired . 
 

I also can’t stand how diversity always turns into a black and white situation and fight . Has there ever been a gay bachelor , a deaf , blind , Jewish , Muslim , Asian one ? I’d love to see those too on the franchise but that’s never brought up . Just seems hypocritical to me by bachelor nation . 

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None of us are perfect and we probably spend a lifetime reexamining how we were nurtured, as opposed to what is acceptable at any point in our lives.  We have a right to make mistakes and learn, mature and grow. 

What bothers me about these Bachelor/ette interviews regarding racism is that people are being publicly put on the spot to answer for someone else.  That is not fair or productive and it's particularly dangerous right now.  That subject is one that requires thought and tact, particularly if you are a brand representative/ambassador of some kind and, even then, one is likely to get crucified.  What is being accomplished by these interviews?  Division is caused, a remedy is attempted, but that is never enough and simply causes more division.  There is no reasonable time allowed for substantive progress, just constant criticism of any attempt to improve.  I, personally, find myself questioning the motive for this tactic.

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15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Maybe.  I don't know about any petition so I can't speak on whether or not I think the call is going too far but I do think just a simple apology in this instance isn't going far enough.  For one, it's unlikely he wrote it or wrote it alone.  Based on the fact that he seemed to have more disdain for the "woke police" in that interview than anything Rachael did, makes me suspicious he'd learn anything from just an apology.  At the end of the interview, during which he often wouldn't let Rachel respond, he ended it with something like "I've loved that we can have these debates" even though, as I said, he rarely let her respond or gave any indication he was processing what she was trying to tell him. 

Going back to his constant references to being "woke" or the "woke police," I think it was an extremely pejorative dismissal of people who had expressed concerns over things Rachael did in her past, many of whom were people of color. 

I am not committed to the guy so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if he lost his job over this but I don't think he will.  And for that reason, I don't think he'll really learn.  He'll weather this controversy, do a public mea culpa and privately blame overly sensitive people on Twitter without understanding why people are upset.  The empathy he asks for when it comes to Rachael will be lacking when it comes to those whose concerns he dismissed.

People can think it’s insensitive that he used the term “ woke police “ , but I think it’s insensitive that it’s always completely fine to use the term “ white privilege.” Not everyone who is white is privileged . Privilege is a class issue , not a race issue . And I find it insensitive , ignorant and hypocritical for people to constantly say it and it’s A-ok , yet think other terms that are used on non-white people are inappropriate. Where is equality in that ?
I can go on about this for days but I won’t . I just will say that I wish Chris Harrison didn’t give in and apologize . I get why he did , he had to protect himself . But his apology is giving in to this ridiculous “ canceled “ nonsense , and he said nothing wrong . 

Edited by Jax7917
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Guys, you've all had a chance to comment on Chris Harrison. Feel free to pick it up the discussion again when there is a new development. Until then, it's time to move on. Failure to comply may result in us deciding to lock this thread.

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10 hours ago, Jax7917 said:

I also can’t stand how diversity always turns into a black and white situation and fight . Has there ever been a gay bachelor , a deaf , blind , Jewish , Muslim , Asian one ? 

Jason Mesnick is Jewish.

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2 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

Jason Mesnick is Jewish.

Hopefully there’s more in the future . And more diversity all around . 

Edited by Jax7917
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16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I've had my issues with Rachel in the past and I am a bit skeptical as to whether or not she's actually going to leave The Bachelor but I thought she held back in that interview.

I fundamentally disagree that the black woman is responsible for the white man's fuck up. 

I don't think she's responsible for his fuck up either. I just think she could have handled the situation a bit more diplomatically. I still contend that she enjoyed her "gotcha" moment and all the attention she is now getting from it.

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Whenever I read a celebrity apology saying that they will spend time educating themselves, I imagine them instead at home for weeks, drunk, watching "Property Brothers."  

 

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On 2/17/2021 at 6:25 PM, chocolatine said:

Andi Dorfman is also Jewish.

JP Rosenbaum wore a yarmulke at his wedding.

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3 hours ago, b2H said:

JP Rosenbaum wore a yarmulke at his wedding.

Lol this sounds like a line from Adam Sandler’s Chanukah song. 🤣🤣

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No comments on Matt's instagram post? A cursory read does not look good toward Chris Harrison or The Bachelor. Things are getting messy. It does not look good for the franchise.

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6 hours ago, sauce62 said:

No comments on Matt's instagram post? A cursory read does not look good toward Chris Harrison or The Bachelor. Things are getting messy. It does not look good for the franchise.

I just went to look.  Interesting!  

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11 hours ago, sauce62 said:

No comments on Matt's instagram post? A cursory read does not look good toward Chris Harrison or The Bachelor. Things are getting messy. It does not look good for the franchise.

Can you please post or link to it? I don’t have Instagram. 
 

Oh, nevermind. I found it in People Magazine.

Edited by JenE4 · Reason: Link to story.
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12 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Can you please post or link to it? I don’t have Instagram. 

I put in a spoiler box

Spoiler

62F32CC1-6B65-4CCB-A8CC-78404C9D724F.jpeg

 

 

Edited by LBS · Reason: Put in spoiler box
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Re:  Matt's beard.

Matt was on "Watch What Happens Live" with Andy Cohen on Bravo about 2 weeks ago.

He Zoomed from his apartment (that he still lives in with Tyler).  Bushy beard was in full force, and he had a dark ski knit cap on.  If he hadn't spoken, I'd have never recognized him.

He also was drinking a mixed drink, which he kept sipping.  He giggled the entire time, throwing his head back constantly, almost falling out of his chair.  Odd behavior, to say the least.  If I was a betting woman, I'd bet he was drunk prior to even getting on the call.

Not really a spoiler, but this was part of what he said on "Watch What Happens Live" so I'll put it in a spoiler box:

Spoiler

I have no idea about any spoilers, but if I had to guess, he's on his own now.  Just from how he responded with the typical "I'm so glad I had the experience" no-response, response.

 

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It's a damn shame that after 20 years there is finally a black bachelor and his season gets marred in all this damn controversy. I wish I would have gotten a chance to just enjoy this brothas journey but I guess that's too much to ask. The next bachelor should be black as a do over because they screwed this one over.

Edited by mommalib
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On 2/19/2021 at 11:01 PM, woodscommaelle said:
On 2/19/2021 at 7:38 PM, b2H said:

JP Rosenbaum wore a yarmulke at his wedding.

Lol this sounds like a line from Adam Sandler’s Chanukah song. 🤣🤣

JP Rosenbaum wore a yarmulke

Not just at his wedding but on all eight nights of Chanukah 

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I’m still not sure why Rachel Lindsay is getting dragged for conducting an interview. Or why people think she’s enjoying getting bitched at by racists? She didn’t lie about the number of people dressing up as plantation barbies. Or think 2018 was 5 years ago. Harrison’s inability to keep his foot out of his mouth is not her fault.

But I’m still salty they cast Lee the racist on her season. And made her watch the finale live. She didn’t crack under pressure and got her happy ending and a career. Sad people can’t be happy for her.

Someone mentioned no Jewish bachelors. Jason Mesnick is. And was told not to do the traditional breaking glass at his wedding. 
 

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9 hours ago, dbell1 said:

Someone mentioned no Jewish bachelors. Jason Mesnick is. And was told not to do the traditional breaking glass at his wedding. 
 

Wow! Do you know why they wouldn’t let him do that? 

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2 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:

Wow! Do you know why they wouldn’t let him do that? 

Probably afraid of someone getting injured from broken glass.

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51 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Probably afraid of someone getting injured from broken glass.

Ha ha! They wrap the glass in a linen napkin. 

Did the producers of the Mesnick wedding show actually tell Jason not to do the glass stomp? 

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46 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Ha ha! They wrap the glass in a linen napkin. 

I know...but heaven forbid a little shard of glass got loose!!!

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29 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I know...but heaven forbid a little shard of glass got loose!!!

There have been hundreds of Jewish weddings in my extended family and friend circle, and I've never heard of that happening.

ETA: I also remember that it was raining at Jason and Molly's wedding and TPTB wouldn't let them use umbrellas during the ceremony because that would have made it more difficult to film. I felt bad for Molly getting drenched after spending several hours getting her hair and makeup done. It sounds like TPTB were complete jerks and didn't care about what would have been best for the bride and groom.

Edited by chocolatine
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1 hour ago, ByTor said:

I know...but heaven forbid a little shard of glass got loose!!!

lol 

But we’ll drop you out of a plane and watch your body hit the earth like a rag doll 😉.

Broken glass? Nope. We can’t risk that 🤣🤣.

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Even though there were 2 moderator notes to stay on topic, posts are continuing to be removed for failing to comply. This is strike 3. The thread will be locked for 24 hours. 

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I"m thrilled that Emmanuel is going to do the "After the Final Rose".    And hope that he can become the permanent host.

If you get a chance, watch his interview on his Youtube channel with Rachel & Bryan about inter-racial relationships.  Its really good.

Edited by CindyBee
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14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

At first I was skeptical they chose a former NFL player (who I recognize visually but couldn't tell you one thing about him) but then I learned he wrote a book/did a video series called Uncomfortable Conversations With A Black Man.

So it appears as less random. 

 

14 hours ago, CindyBee said:

I"m thrilled that Emmanuel is going to do the "After the Final Rose".    And hope that he can become the permanent host.

If you get a chance, watch his interview on his Youtube channel with Rachel & Bryan about inter-racial relationships.  Its really good.

Thanks - I never heard of  him.  He does seem like a good choice. 

I always thought it was a shame that the Bachelor shows don't show conversations about race when it seems obvious that those conversations HAVE to take place.  Like - "OK, Rachael, I'm about to meet your parents.  Have you dated a Black man before?  How will your parents feel about you potentially getting engaged to someone who is not white?"  

Maybe the couples HAVE these conversations, I don't know.  but they're missing the mark by pretending the issue doesn't exist.

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I don't hope that The Bachelor franchise will start to focus more on race. I want to watch couples, a little machinations (thought not the sniping and bitching that takes up so much time) and some romance. The show is artificial as it is, it can ignore race, and still be artificial! It never was a bastion of reality, despite being a reality show!

But if everyone else thinks it should be about race, I say "okay".

 

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I hope he does ask tougher questions than usual. But also I'm a bit concerned this is going to be an after-school-special on bullying and racism. 

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I’m definitely hopeful at this point now that I know who is conducting the interview. Hope springs eternal, I guess. 
 

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I'd prefer somebody who has some knowledge of The Bachelor---watches it, has participated in it.  Anybody but Rachel.

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2 hours ago, rebel2u said:

I'd prefer somebody who has some knowledge of The Bachelor---watches it, has participated in it.  Anybody but Rachel.

Unfortunately, that's not who they hired. I heard Harrison is totally gone, and they hired a black football player to take his place. Not exactly sure what a football player knows about Bachelor Nation. Supposedly, he was hired for his stance on race relations (promoting his new book). IMO, this is a knee jerk reaction to what happened and not necessarily focusing on qualifications for hosting a competitive reality show.

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