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16 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Apparently the idea is to spread out their inventory of finished episodes? 🤷🏻‍♀️ Not entirely sure I understand the thoughts behind it, but I suppose if their summer replacements hadn’t finished filming yet, they might be be looking at a shorter summer run and so want to start them later. 

Or I suppose, worse case scenario, depending on how long this drags on, if they can’t start filming the next season on time, maybe they’re thinking about holding episodes for next fall? 🤷🏻‍♀️ I’m just guessing here though.

I hope they don't just add them into next season. Lucifer did that and it completely ruined the flow of that season. 

Yikes, Brandon's exit doesn't sound like it was handled well at all. 

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Darn it, Brandon -- why'd you have to gotta make me cry when I'm supposed to be getting ready for work?

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Brandon Routh Gets Candid About Ray & Nora's 'Legends of Tomorrow' Exit (VIDEO)
Damian Holbrook   March 17, 2020
https://www.tvinsider.com/926160/brandon-routh-leaving-legends-of-tomorrow-reason-ray-palmer/

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OK, we are so not happy that you’re leaving. What made you guys decide it was time to go?
Brandon Routh:
Neither of us decided to go. It was [showrunner] Phil Klemmer who decided that it was time for us to go. Yeah. Before the season started, got a phone call that that was the situation. So yeah, we proceeded accordingly.
*  *  *
Then you’ve been aware that this was coming for a bit, because Legends started filming the season back in September, right?
Yes.

How has it been for you?
It’s been one of the hardest things we’ve done in our lives. We both love these characters, this show and our fan base. And we’ve seen how impactful in a positive way the Legends and Ray and Nora have been in people’s lives, from hearing on social media to hearing in person at conventions. And that means something to us. We care about that and we love that… we love the characters for ourselves, but also for the fans. I think everybody knows that eventually their time on a show is going to be done. Not everybody gets 15 seasons like Supernatural. And given the opportunity, I don’t know that I’d want to be 15 years on a show. [Laughs]

My relationship with the show, it changed because the show changed. And then Courtney came on and that was amazing for our family. And we were very happy, having a great time working up there. So it was a shock to us, because I always had open conversations with the producers about the whole experience. This was sprung upon me without communication. So that was a challenging thing. And then the season became very challenging because it was just very confusing about why it was all happening.

You mention how much you love Ray. As one of the three remaining original cast members, you’ve been playing him now for, what, seven years total?
Since 2014, over 100 episodes of television — so the most I played any character. And I think the show was always about “What do we do? What are we doing? What are we doing here?” And you could fault that, but I think that’s kind of the magic of it. The confusing thing about Legends is that sometimes it doesn’t know what it is and then does know it is, and sometimes it doesn’t know what it has when it has it. It’s such a fluid experience and that’s what I’ve enjoyed about it so much. The show was originally conceived one way and what I was told the show was going to be, it was different when I got there and filmed it. So then I had to fall into line with what it was.

I was told I was going to be George Clooney in Ocean’s 11, and that wasn’t what happened. Ray Palmer  wasn’t the leader. So I had to go, “OK, so now refocus, who am I now? What am I on the ship?” With Rip Hunter being the leader, the little jokes that they put in for Ray and the relationship with the Polar Opposites — Captain Cold and Heat Wave — I said, “OK, well I’m going to do comedy, because that’s what I was doing on Arrow.” So I went with that. “I’m going to push the envelope on all this stuff they’re giving, because this is where the fun is and this show’s a little bit out-there.” So I kept pushing it and lo and behold, that’s what the show becomes with everyone else continuing to do more comedy. And that’s where we found our sweet spot.
*  *  *
It had to be a pretty fun ride…
Absolutely. I think Seasons 3 and 4 have been the best seasons of the show, really, with the cast jelling and ripping on each other but not fighting all the time. And not in superhero attire all the time, just sometimes … The show is about relationships, right? Any good show is about the relationships between the characters. And that’s what [makes] the difference between the Marvel movie universe and the DC TV universe: The relationships exist stronger in the DC TV world than they do in the film world, for the most part. That’s what sets the successful projects apart from the unsuccessful ones in my mind. And Legends can do all kinds of crazy things because of the relationships that exist between the characters.

Exactly. That’s the fun of it, watching these characters with weird connections getting into missions together. Last week, Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough) basically says to you, “Do right by her. Get her off this ship so she can focus on being a Fairy Godmother.” I’m guessing that the impetus behind you guys leaving.
Yeah, yeah. They’re basically saying that Nora can’t do her job on the ship. Which I don’t really see. But anyway, yeah, that’s the premise. And then they have a conversation that if they go back and change a kid’s past by making it happy, then it’s going to alter history, and that would screw up history… even though that’s what they do all the time. But that was the reason, that’s why. That’s about it.
*  *  *
And how was it filming your second wedding with each other?
Well, it was great for the fans, so I’m really happy that it gives them a nice send-off. And I think it ultimately is good for the characters. I believe that they would have gotten there at some point. On a personal note, it was very challenging, because it felt forced, like we’re trying to make everything OK and make everything happy just by getting us married. Personally, we were not happy about it.

I can tell. How do these two ultimately leave the Waverider? And how do they leave things with the team?
So they get to say all their goodbyes, thankfully, even though there’s still some good drama and good moments. But there’s a very strong finality to their exits, saying goodbye to everyone. It’s not, “Goodbye. See you soon. Come visit.” It’s “Goodbye forever.”

Wow. And now what is next for you?
We’ve just been re-integrating back into Los Angeles, having been up in Vancouver for the last several years, having our son in school up there. We had moved our family and had a remodel down here, so moving back into our house,  it’s lovely and happy [actually], all the fun things about moving home and reconnecting with friends and our life back here. We’re both gently looking for the next project.
*  *  *
Well, we’re certainly going to miss Ray…
I will too. But whenever a door closes, another opens. And it’s always this challenge for anybody in any industry…sometimes we need that downtime of “What is next?” to figure out what’s important. So thank you for your support for the show and everything. And we will talk soon.

On 3/15/2020 at 12:18 PM, tv echo said:

POSTPONED until later date...

Planet Comicon, originally scheduled for March 20-22, 2020, has been postponed until TBA
Katie Cassidy, Caity Lotz, Brandon Routh, Courtney Ford, Jes Macallan, and Rachel Skarsten
https://www.planetcomicon.com/postponement-announcement/

Planet Comicon has been rescheduled to August 14-16, 2020 (guest list has changed)...
https://planetcomicon.com/guests/?cat=14

Edited by tv echo
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'DC's Legends of Tomorrow' star Brandon Routh unpacks his final episode
By Chancellor Agard   March 17, 2020
https://ew.com/tv/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-brandon-routh-last-episode-ray-nate/

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Routh admits that he also struggled with the pep talk Ray gives Shakespeare about endings — specifically Ray's line "Endings are necessary for growth no matter how painful they may be" — because it wasn't his choice to leave the show.

"I love the writers of the final episode. Our writers are fantastic. I know that they thought they were helping with the wedding, and for the fans, I’m glad it puts good closure, but for us, it was pouring salt on the wound, I guess," he said. "So that line, I ultimately came to a place where I could speak it truthfully, and it was a lot of internal work to make it truthful."

Looking back on his experience, Routh believes he'll miss the camaraderie with the cast, crew, and writers. "I think most actors would probably say a similar thing. It’s being on set, being with your friends that you’ve spent so much time with, and family," he said. "It’s nice to have a break for a little while but then you’d miss that daily routine of hanging out with your friends and seeing the people you spent so much time with, and  just the creativity of bringing the characters to life."

DC's Legends of Tomorrow's Brandon Routh Opens Up About Ray and Nora's 'Forced' Exits
BY KEISHA HATCHETT   March 16, 2020
https://www.tvguide.com/news/dc-legends-of-tomorrow-brandon-routh-ray-nora-forced-exit/ 

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"On one level, I'm happy [that Ray and Nora got married]. It's a future I did see for them so I don't think it's wrong that they're married," Routh told TV Guide. "But I think the journey to having it happen shouldn't have been forced. The exit is also very quick and forced, and so I have challenges with that on a personal level."

Edited by tv echo
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2 hours ago, tv echo said:

The show was originally conceived one way and what I was told the show was going to be, it was different when I got there and filmed it. So then I had to fall into line with what it was.

I was told I was going to be George Clooney in Ocean’s 11, and that wasn’t what happened. Ray Palmer  wasn’t the leader. So I had to go, “OK, so now refocus, who am I now? What am I on the ship?”

I'm glad for this clarification, because I know there have been various discussions previously about how this spinoff started.

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The Best Superhero Shows to Watch Right Now
BY LINDSAY MACDONALD  MAR 20, 2020
https://www.tvguide.com/news/the-best-superhero-shows-to-watch-right-now/

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DC's Legends of Tomorrow
Where to Watch
: Netflix
...
Speaking of zany superheroes... Legends of Tomorrow is the binge for you if you want to leave all the serious stuff at the door and just enjoy yourself for a few hours. The series follows a time-traveling team of superheroes called the Legends, whose main mission seems to be having as much fun as possible while saving the world and the timeline. Imagine what would happen if your favorite superheroes got dropped into 17th Century France one day and then battled a giant stuffed animal the next, and you've basically got Legends of Tomorrow.

ETA: Arrow, Flash and Supergirl are also on this list.

Edited by tv echo
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Which Arrowverse Character Has Died The Most
BY ZACHARY KANDELL    MAR 21, 2020
https://screenrant.com/arrowverse-characters-most-deaths-sara-lance-canary/ 

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In what should surprise no one, the Arrowverse character who has died the most is Sara Lance (Caity Lotz), but the runner-ups are a little more unexpected. Superhero comics and media based on them have a rather lax relationship with death, and despite starting off with the relatively grounded Arrow, the Arrowverse has evolved to be a much weirder world, culminating in the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" crossover event.
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Even discounting when Sara Lance was only presumed dead, she’s died three times on-screen: Thea (Willa Holland) killed Sara in the Arrow episode “The Calm,” Rip Hunter (Arthur Darvill) brainwashed her in the Legends of Tomorrow episode “Turncoat,” and a version of her blinks out of existence in the season 2 finale of Legends, “Aruba.” She’s killed off screen three more times. First, Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough) alongside Laurel (Katie Cassidy) and Quentin (Paul Blackthorne) kills her in an alternate timeline of season 4 of Arrow, she's killed by Eobard Thawne (Matt Letscher) on a Legends mission gone wrong, and finally, a unicorn gores her, as shown by her memorial in the madness that was “Legends of To-Meow-Meow.” In total, Sara has died six times on or off screen in the Arrowverse.
*  *  *
Time travel is the most obvious way for the Arrowverse to avert major character deaths, so the characters near Sara in number of deaths have been able to continue in the franchise through various time travel plots. Nate Heywood (Nick Zano) has died five times, with Mick Rory (Dominic Purcell), Caitlin Snow (Danielle Panabaker), and Cisco Ramon (Carlos Valdes) dying only four times. Most of those were averted by someone traveling back in time, though unlike Sara, all four of them died in the anti-matter wave that consumed the multiverse during “Crisis on Infinite Earths.” Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) also dies four times, if his off-screen death implied by Damien Darhk having his mask in “Doomworld” counts.
*  *  *
Death isn’t permanent in the Arrowverse, and Sara Lance lives up to her reputation as the hero who can’t stay dead the most. It’s a surprisingly competitive race, with many other characters having died multiple times throughout the course of the shows.

Edited by tv echo
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Looks like Legends is now postponed indefinitely. 😭 I saw something about this on Tumblr and went looking for an official source.  SpoilerTV has the press release.  I’ll update if I see anything posted elsewhere about it.

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29 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Looks like Legends is now postponed indefinitely. 😭 I saw something about this on Tumblr and went looking for an official source.  SpoilerTV has the press release.  I’ll update if I see anything posted elsewhere about it.

I've seen the schedule, do we know why? SPN is ending last ep because FX can't be completed on the other previously shot ones. That's what makes the most sense considering it finished production some time ago but can often be heavy on the CGI. 

Unless they need to hold episodes in reserve because they have no idea when anything else it going to start filming again. 

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I have no idea. Like you said, SPN is ending because they can’t finish the special effects on the episodes, but I wouldn’t have thought that was the issue here.  But maybe? 🤷🏻‍♀️  I’m leaning towards the holding episodes in reserve theory though.  

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10 Changes The Arrowverse Made To The DC Universe Which Could Work In The Comics
BY GEORGE CHRYSOSTOMOU   MAR 25, 2020
https://www.cbr.com/dc-arrowverse-changes-work-in-comics/

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10 LEGENDS OF TOMORROW
...
The Legends are a really unique team that have been created for the TV shows. Since the Arrowverse had so many side characters, the best solution was to create this team of misfits, rogues, criminals and other assorted heroes.

The results is a really fun collection of individuals going on magical and time travelling missions in the Waverider. This could absolutely translate to the comics and it's a surprise that such an idea hasn't been pushed much further!

9  WHITE CANARY
...
The Black Canary has been changed a lot in the Arrowverse and we're not on board with most of these differences. However, one additional element that is really different from the comics, is the creation of the White Canary.

The sister of the Black Canary and the original wielder of the black suit, White Canary has consistently been one of the best characters in the Arrowverse. Her totally unique creation should be used in the comics, ret-conning the character into the universe.

Edited by tv echo
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I don't know if anyone has seen them, but the show has put up a few hilarious scenes from "Mr. Parker's Cul-de-Sac" on its YouTube channel. Suffice it to say that Mr. Parker has a few issues... .

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What originally drew you to Arrow and to your role, White Canary?
I started on Arrow, which is another DC Comics book show. That is where my character originated. So I started playing Sara Lance/White Canary on Arrow, and then after that, they wanted to include her in Legends of Tomorrow. My favorite thing about [White Canary] is her passion and strength. She is a leader! At the time, there weren’t a lot of bisexual characters so to be able to play a character that can help bring more of that kind of representation on television was really important for me.
*  *  *
You directed an episode this season. Was this your first time directing? What was the experience like?
It was a phenomenal experience—so much fun! It was super eye opening realizing just how much goes into making an episode of the show in such little time. I love being able to be on the other side of it. It was a tremendous amount of work, but the crew and the cast were so supportive. It was really heartwarming how much everybody rallied together and went the extra mile to help make sure that this was going to be great.
*  *  *
What are some topics that are difficult to speak about that you’re hoping to do more articles on?
One of the things, especially since it is a little more specific to our industry, is about money. In any industry, but especially in the artistic community, you have people doing work but the pay is not equal at all. A lot of us women have been talking to each other more about money, how much we’re getting paid and how negotiations are going. This is not something which is traditionally encouraged—talking about money never is. The studios don’t want that because it can be used to negotiate against them, and actors feel uncomfortable because it feels as though it’s tied to their “worth.” Traditionally, women are getting paid a lot less than men. We as women have begun to be really open about it, and so have the guys.

Edited by tv echo
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Apparently, Sara can get her Kirk on. At the risk of looking like a “Stan” for her . . . is there anything she can’t do?

I’m ready. This is a mad show for a mad time.

Edited by Lantern7
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Photos for #510 “The Great British Fake Off” (DCLegendsTV)

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WE’VE GOT COMPANY — With Sara (Caity Lotz) recuperating from her latest battle, Charlie (Maisie Richardson-Sellers) starts to notice something might not be right with her. Still searching for the Loom, Constantine (Matt Ryan) and Zari (Tala Ashe) find themselves trapped in a 1910 boarding house with a slew of out-of-time Encores. Meanwhile, Ava (Jes Macallan), Gary (guest star Adam Tsekhman) and Rory (Dominic Purcell) take a trip while Nate (Nick Zano) and Charlie hold down the Waverider. Olivia Swann also stars. David Geddes directed the episode written by Jackie Canino (#510). Original airdate 4/28/2020.

 

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Zari looks good as (what I’m assuming is) Cleopatra.

Wonder what they’re all looking at in the last pic.

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Script pages from LoT pilot episode (aired Jan. 21, 2016)...

Edited by tv echo
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22 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I guess the Gods never met the girl that doesn't stay dead. Or does being the paragon of Destiny make her not be swayed by the Fates? I wish we would get more about that, but I doubt we will since the writers made it clear they are not interested in writing stories for Sara unless it involves being a love interest. Sara having God powers would be great though. I mean she's a member of the Super Friends now. 

I do love that she's a Dean fan. I'm always team Jensen Ackles ever since he was on Dark Angel. Plus Sara would love a show where the characters die and come back more than she has.

One of the writers said we might get more answers in 511.

https://twitter.com/tyronsaidso/status/1252780648109989888

I can see Sara being a fan of Dean more than Sam or Castiel. Plus, she loves horror movies, so no surprise she loves Supernatural too.

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Official description for #511 “Ship Broken” (DCLegendsTV)

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SECOND CHANGES – Everyone is eager to use the Loom of Fate, but the team must decide who they want to bring back first leaving Charlie (Maisie Richardson-Sellers) to make a tough choice. Sara (Caity Lotz) struggles to understand what has happened to her and with the help of Constantine (Matt Ryan) and Ava (Jes Macallan), they try to figure out how to help her. Meanwhile, Rory (Dominic Purcell) has a guest on the ship that he is trying to impress. Nick Zano, Tala Ashe and Olivia Swann also star. Andi Armaganian directed the episode written by James Eagan & Mark Bruner (#511).  Original airdate 5/5/2020. 

 

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From TVLine’s TV questions column this week:

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I have to admit, there was a second there where I also had a “huh, those are real?” moment.  But then I got distracted and didn’t think about it beyond that.  

Edited by Starfish35
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Sneak peek for tonight’s episode:

 

Is it me or do these two have far more chemistry than “Steelhacker” ever did? Not that they’re ever going to pair Constantine up with someone, but still.  

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Some spoilers for tonight’s episode:

How Tala Ashe learned to love Zari 2.0 on Legends of Tomorrow

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Zari is getting more quality time with Constantine than she bargained for on DC's Legends of Tomorrow.

****

Ahead of the episode, titled "The Great British Fake Off," EW spoke to Tala Ashe about playing this new version of Zari and if there's more going on between Zari and Constantine.

****

I’ll admit, I was worried when the showrunners first told me Zari was going to be an influencer because that can easily become just a punchline, but that hasn’t been the case at all. On your end, how did you figure out who this person was beneath her superficial exterior? 

My north star through all of this has been that Zari 1.0 and 2.0 have ultimately the same soul, but have experienced very different lives and very different environments. That, as an actor, has been interesting to me to just explore what environment and circumstance does to you. Fundamentally, I believe her heart is her heart, and we see that come out.

*****

So you get into this groove as Zari 2.0, and then last week’s episode arrives and you have to play Zari 1.0 and Zari 2.0 in the same scene. How did that feel? 

Really odd. Shooting those scenes is a lot more technical than maybe people realize, than maybe I realized actually. As much as I wanted to live in 1.0’s body, I actually had to switch back and forth two times that day. I was joking, “Oh my god, I don’t know who Zari 1.0 is anymore.” But then actually when I really dropped into it, I was like, “Oh, I miss her. I really miss her.” The sort of groundedness, sarcastic, dry, droll thing that Zari 1.0 is, I find delightful. Honestly, it’s fun. I would play both of them if I could. I know it’s a technical nightmare for everybody — it adds a lot of hours to our day — but I really enjoyed it.

 

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Hmm, I really enjoy Tala Ashe interviews and I love her love of OG Zari. I miss her so much. Sigh it doesn't seem like we're getting her back though. 

25 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Is it me or do these two have far more chemistry than “Steelhacker” ever did? Not that they’re ever going to pair Constantine up with someone, but still.  

They do have chemistry, not sure if I'd want them to pair up because everyone Constantine loves dies horribly or worse but it would be more interesting than "Steelhacker". I don't know why Nate has always had a romance on the show, NZ's best work has been without one (4A). I mean I get why in theory but it hasn't worked out that "the beefcake" 🙄 of the show has the hottest chemistry with people, IMHO anyway. 

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Episode stills for Ep 511 (510? I don't know anymore).

http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/legends/gallery21/gallery11/gallery.htm

Sara's irises look cloudy, not the usual blue. Maybe Sara's just going blind for now (instead of shooting lasers out of her eyes, lol), and it was said this was going to be more like a disease. Wonder if this is going to be permanent or it'll fade once she gets her superpower, whatever it is.

I can't imagine the League not training Sara to fight without being able to see. I want to see Daredevil!Sara!

Edited by lurker22
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The episode description calls it #511, so that’s what I’m going with for now (DCLegendsTV).

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SECOND CHANGES — Everyone is eager to use the Loom of Fate, but the team must decide who they want to bring back first leaving Charlie (Maisie Richardson-Sellers) to make a tough choice. Sara (Caity Lotz) struggles to understand what has happened to her and with the help of Constantine (Matt Ryan) and Ava (Jes Macallan), they try to figure out how to help her. Meanwhile, Rory (Dominic Purcell) has a guest on the ship that he is trying to impress. Nick Zano, Tala Ashe and Olivia Swann also star. Andi Armaganian directed the episode written by James Eagan & Mark Bruner (#511). Original airdate 5/5/2020.

 

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I'd love to see DaredevilSara fight. But I hope this doesn't take away her being Captain and give it to Ava. 

Sara pretty much looked the goddess of death in the eyes and lived. So whatever other super power she gets is on top of the one she already has. Surviving death. 

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Just now, Sakura12 said:

I hope this doesn't take away her being Captain and give it to Ava. 

Agreed. 😕

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18 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

But I hope this doesn't take away her being Captain and give it to Ava. 

Well, Ava became Captain real quick this episode.

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5 minutes ago, lurker22 said:

Well, Ava became Captain real quick this episode.

Yep, I feel giving Sara a disability power was their way to get their new favorite toy Ava to take over for the old toy Sara. 

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16 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Promo for next week’s episode:

I like the barks at the end; I think there's usually a short musical signature there that they replaced for this one. 

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Official episode description for #512 “Freaks and Greeks” (DCLegendsTV)

Quote

SISTERHOOD – The Legends find themselves going back to college and form a sorority in order to try to retrieve an ancient artifact called the Chalice of Dionyus that will help Charlie (Maisie Richardson-Sellers) operate the Loom of Fate. Proud to be back at his college, Nate (Nick Zano) falls under Dion’s spell, letting him know of Sara (Caity Lotz), Astra (Olivia Swann), Ava (Jes Macallan) and Charlie’s plan to get the cup. Meanwhile, on a father-daughter weekend, Rory (Dominic Purcell) takes Lita (guest star Mina Sundwall) on a college tour, but Rory bails on Lita for an unexpected reason. Tala Ashe and Matt Ryan also star. Nico Sachse directed the episode written by Matthew Maala & Ubah Mohamed (#512).  Original airdate 5/12/2020. 

 

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Marc Guggenheim of DC CW on GalaxyCon Live
GalaxyCon  Streamed live Apr 30, 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxrdjOZ1gHE

-- Patty Hawkins (GalaxyCon): "How did Legends begin to develop?"
MG: "You know, it's funny... we all sort of started to, um, have these - the same idea independently. Um, uh, it really came about - uh, Mark Pedowitz had asked for a third show. Um, we went down a rabbit hole that I won't be specific about in terms of another DC character. [unintelligible words]... I'll tell you this, it was a character that you've seen, you've [unintelligible word-ultimately?] seen in the Arrowverse. And, um, but the feeling at the time was, how - how is this going to be any different from Flash? How is this going to be different from Arrow? And, you know, Mark Pedowitz was saying, 'There's so many characters now, like, really great characters, played by great actors, that've been on the two shows. There's enough - there's enough stuff here to, uh, field a team.' And when we hit upon 'team,' when Mark said a 'team' show, we realized, that's what's been missing, that's something we haven't done before, that's something new. Um, and that's what, you know, started Legends, which, obviously, has grown and developed and evolved, uh, in its own way. Um, but that was the beginning, with Mark Pedowitz saying, I want to a third show and I think you have enough from the previous two shows to create a team. ... David Rapaport and Lindsey Baldesare, who are the casting directors of the Arrowverse... They - they found all of these actors for us. Um, you know, and - and sometimes it's relationships. You know, Victor Garber, for example, uh, was on Eli Stone... But David and Lindsey, they just have this sixth sense almost, uh, about, um, you know, matching actors to their comic book origins and being true to the comic book origins, even when it's not a literal, you know, translation. They're brilliant. I can't say enough wonderful things about them. They're as much responsible for the success of the Arrowverse as anyone."

Edited by tv echo
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It's so strange to me how no one seems to be able to just come out and say that they wanted an Atom show and no one took the bait so they had to back track and come up with a new idea.   Like... everyone knows, it's like some sort of open knowledge arrowverse secret that everyone refuses to admit. 

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