The NBA

[Lady Whistleup]

4 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Why was Ben Simmons drafted if he can't shoot?  Yes, I know how important defensive skills are but aren't you supposed to know how to, uhhhh...shoot? 

Many college players (especially the one-and-dones) are drafted despite lack of "natural shooting ability." The idea is they'll develop this ability. Magic Johnson, Giannis, Lebron, are just three examples of superstars who weren't born with superhuman shooting abilities. They developed much stronger offense in the league. There are traces of this lack of shooting ability with Giannis and Lebron -- both still struggle at the line during the playoffs.

Ben Simmons is just someone whose offense has not developed at all. 

[Crashcourse]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Many college players (especially the one-and-dones) are drafted despite lack of "natural shooting ability." The idea is they'll develop this ability. Magic Johnson, Giannis, Lebron, are just three examples of superstars who weren't born with superhuman shooting abilities. They developed much stronger offense in the league. There are traces of this lack of shooting ability with Giannis and Lebron -- both still struggle at the line during the playoffs.

Ben Simmons is just someone whose offense has not developed at all. 

Ok, thanks for the explanation.   

[Fukui San]

There are NBA observers who theorize that Simmons should actually shoot with his other hand. 

I’d liken it to baseball players who get a mental block and can’t execute basic throws. You don’t usually hear about people like that getting over it, but I hope for his sake he gets to at least adequate. 

[Carey]

3 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Doc Rivers has a very poor history handling chemistry issues in the locker room. He wasn't able to handle the chemistry problems between the Clippers, and he also wasn't able to handle the issues between Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett on the Celtics. 

I think Doc would've been better off being a front office person and maybe less of a HC on the sideline.  Though if he ever coached LeBron, he wouldn't need to do anything

[Lady Whistleup]

Trae Young is my favorite post-season supervillain by far. Tiny, scrawny, unflappable, he gives off serious Peter Baelish vibes and I absolutely am here for it. 

48 points today. Seeing him terrorize Giannis who is about twice his size is amazing.

[Carey]

It's only one game, but given the history of Atlanta sports, if there were ever a year for someone to win an NBA playoff series despite losing each if its first 3 games, this would be the year.

Of course, while there are 2 chances of that possibility, Milwaukee has been very good on the road, and I don't see the West champion dropping both of its first 2 games at home

[Maximum Taco]

6 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Trae Young is my favorite post-season supervillain by far. Tiny, scrawny, unflappable, he gives off serious Peter Baelish vibes and I absolutely am here for it. 

48 points today. Seeing him terrorize Giannis who is about twice his size is amazing.

100%

I don't understand how people can see Trae Young and the Hawks as anything but villains. Just like tonight, they do what bad guys do, go into someone else's house and draw first blood. They ate their bread and salt and reverse Red Wedding'd them. 

They say everyone's the hero in their own story, I'm pretty sure even Trae knows he's the villain. But you know, sometimes evil wins, and sometimes that's awesome.

[Lady Whistleup]

12 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

100%

I don't understand how people can see Trae Young and the Hawks as anything but villains. Just like tonight, they do what bad guys do, go into someone else's house and draw first blood. They ate their bread and salt and reverse Red Wedding'd them. 

They say everyone's the hero in their own story, I'm pretty sure even Trae knows he's the villain. But you know, sometimes evil wins, and sometimes that's awesome.

Especially since Giannis is the classic hero. He's handsome, he's big-hearted, he's got the sob story.

But Trae Young is built to crush Giannis's dreams. And I am here for it. This is going to be a great series I can just tell.

[Carey]

Personally, I get the Trae Young as the villain.  Maybe he and the Hawks are lovable villains, but I don't know if I could personally go there yet, despite Giannis' story.

IMO, it's kind of difficult to be a villain when one hasn't won anything.  It does help Atlanta to fill that role given the fact that they're not facing Brooklyn.  Plus if all goes well, they might square off against Phoenix where they'd definitely be that team that several would rather see lose than win

Edited June 24, 2021 by Carey
Edited because I can't spell

[Lady Whistleup]

4 hours ago, Carey said:

Personally, I get the Trey Young as the villain.  Maybe he and the Hawks are lovable villains, but I don't know if I could personally go there yet, despite Giannis' story.

IMO, it's kind of difficult to be a villain when one hasn't won anything.  It does help Atlanta to fill that role given the fact that they're not facing Brooklyn.  Plus if all goes well, they might square off against Phoenix where they'd definitely be that team that several would rather see lose than win

I don't mean he's a villain like he's a bad person. He's probably a nice enough kid. Most NBA players are not bad people. The amount of players that have done truly repellent stuff off the field is actually surprisingly small. 

I mean he's a villain in that he obviously seems to draw energy from being hated. He also doesn't care if he's up against the biggest, baddest guys in the league -- watching him terrorize Julius Randle (6'8"), Ben Simmons (6'10"), Joel Embiid (7 feet), Giannis (6'11") is something else. 

Whether it's silencing the crowd at MSG, grinning like a hyena at booing, taking a bow after killing the Knicks, doing push-ups on the Philly court, shimmying before hitting a three against the Bucks, this guy's villainous antics are fun as hell to watch. 

Now a finals with him vs. CP3 will be amazing. Both are tiny but ferocious point guards.

[Carey]

Oh I know you didn’t mean he was a legit bad guy LOL!

While there have been so many people that aren’t really nice guys (or the opposite of good, and there is no history or samples of Trae being that) within and outside the NBA, their bad guy label is mainly for what happens on the court.  It’s sorta like the WWE.  While I have my rooting interests, more often than not rooting for the villain is so worth it
 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Carey
Spelling Counts!

[Magog]

Quote

Whether it's silencing the crowd at MSG, grinning like a hyena at booing, taking a bow after killing the Knicks, doing push-ups on the Philly court, shimmying before hitting a three against the Bucks, this guy's villainous antics are fun as hell to watch. 

Quote

Personally, I get the Trey Young as the villain.  Maybe he and the Hawks are lovable villains, but I don't know if I could personally go there yet, despite Giannis' story.

I'm still not understanding why Trae Young is considered a villain. He is very easy to root for. I like his energy a lot & that 3 pointer he made in the game last night (he shimmied before he shot it) was absolutely hilarious. If Steph Curry did that, ESPN would of gone bonkers about it & we will never hear the end of it. But sine Trae Young did that, it would be talked about for a day, then pretty much forgotten a week later.

Trae Young may play somewhat like Steph Curry. But unlike Steph, I get chills (the good kind) watching him play & kicking butt. His demeanor makes him even more likable. He's like the complete opposite of Steph Curry. 

As for the NBA Draft, I'm pretty happy that the Cavaliers got #3. I don't mind the Pistons getting #1 & pretty much drafting Cade Cunningham with that pick. Maybe, he'll help make the Pistons more relevant some day.

Edit: If I'm going to enjoy watching him play, I have to at least spell his name right. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Magog

[irisheyes]

2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I don't mean he's a villain like he's a bad person. He's probably a nice enough kid. Most NBA players are not bad people. The amount of players that have done truly repellent stuff off the field is actually surprisingly small. 

I mean he's a villain in that he obviously seems to draw energy from being hated. He also doesn't care if he's up against the biggest, baddest guys in the league -- watching him terrorize Julius Randle (6'8"), Ben Simmons (6'10"), Joel Embiid (7 feet), Giannis (6'11") is something else. 

Whether it's silencing the crowd at MSG, grinning like a hyena at booing, taking a bow after killing the Knicks, doing push-ups on the Philly court, shimmying before hitting a three against the Bucks, this guy's villainous antics are fun as hell to watch. 

Now a finals with him vs. CP3 will be amazing. Both are tiny but ferocious point guards.

Watching Trae Young revel in killing the Knicks dreams (with Reggie calling the game) was poetry. Poor Spike. First time his team is good in ages, and another scrawny point guard comes along to end it all. 😂 

Trae figures he’s got half the East Coast hating him, now it’s time to move on to the Midwest. 

[Lady Whistleup]

24 minutes ago, Magog said:

I'm still not understanding why Trey Young is considered a villain. He is very easy to root for. I like his energy a lot & that 3 pointer he made in the game last night (he shimmied before he shot it) was absolutely hilarious. If Steph Curry did that, ESPN would of gone bonkers about it & we will never hear the end of it. But sine Trey Young did that, it would be talked about for a day, then pretty much forgotten a week later.

Trey Young may play somewhat like Steph Curry. But unlike Steph, I get chills (the good kind) watching him play & kicking butt. His demeanor makes him even more likable. He's like the complete opposite of Steph Curry. 

As for the NBA Draft, I'm pretty happy that the Cavaliers got #3. I don't mind the Pistons getting #1 & pretty much drafting Cade Cunningham with that pick. Maybe, he'll help make the Pistons more relevant some day.

Today in Magog's adventures: Steph Curry obviously caused the Miami condo to be toppled. Arrest him immediately!

Also it's Trae.

ETA: Rick Carlisle signs up for Pacers coaching job.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, Magog said:

As for the NBA Draft, I'm pretty happy that the Cavaliers got #3. I don't mind the Pistons getting #1 & pretty much drafting Cade Cunningham with that pick. Maybe, he'll help make the Pistons more relevant some day.

Supposedly Cade to Detroit isn't as much of a done deal as everyone thinks. Apparently their GM is very high on Jalen Green.

I'm rooting for that to happen because it would work out well for my Rockets :P

Edited June 24, 2021 by LexieLily

[Lady Whistleup]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

Supposedly Cade to Detroit isn't as much of a done deal as everyone thinks. Apparently their GM is very high on Jalen Green.

I'm rooting for that to happen because it would work out well for my Rockets :P

Isn't this draft class supposedly really deep with several picks that could be #1's although Cade is the consensus first pick? Like Jalen Suggs, Jalen Green, and Evan Mobley supposedly all have a lot of potential.

[LexieLily]

7 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Isn't this draft class supposedly really deep with several picks that could be #1's although Cade is the consensus first pick? Like Jalen Suggs, Jalen Green, and Evan Mobley supposedly all have a lot of potential.

The top four, for sure, I didn't pay attention enough to March Madness to know about the drop-off after that.

[AimingforYoko]

Jay Williams congratulates Ime Udoka for becoming the first "Coach of Color" for Celtics.

I understand maybe forgetting Bill Russell was also a coach, and Satch Sanders and M.L. Carr were short timers but K.C. Jones was the guy for their '80s run and Doc Rivers was not that long ago. Man, that Duke education...worth every penny.

Edited June 24, 2021 by AimingforYoko

[Lady Whistleup]

KD upset at Scottie Pippen. Background: Scottie said KD wasn't like Lebron because he didn't win the series with the Bucks.

 

[xaxat]

He was hacked!

 

[Crashcourse]

Steph did it! 🤣

[emmawoodhouse]

39 minutes ago, xaxat said:

He was hacked!

 

Sure Jan. 

[xaxat]

The thing is, he could have written a funny, self deprecating tweet admitting his mistake and everyone would have had a laugh an moved on.

Now he just opened himself up to another round of dragging on twitter.

[LexieLily]

Supposedly the Mavs are (close to) hiring Jason Kidd as their new coach and some of the players aren't happy with the lack of consideration for Jamahl Mosley (Mavs assistant coach that Luka liked/wanted.)

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, LexieLily said:

Supposedly the Mavs are (close to) hiring Jason Kidd as their new coach and some of the players aren't happy with the lack of consideration for Jamahl Mosley (Mavs assistant coach that Luka liked/wanted.)

Ugh Jason Kidd had a well-deserved rep as a toxic locker room influence as a coach. I don't picture him getting on with Luka at all.

[Carey]

Doesn't Mark Cuban have the power to tell Luka to shut up and play?

 

Mark Cuban.  IMO, if Luka ended up being Luka to where it can no longer work in Dallas, I can't imagine Luka going elsewhere without Mark "profitting" from Luka's departure.

Jason Kidd isn't a great HC, but I don't think it'll be a total disaster if it happens either

[Lady Whistleup]

49 minutes ago, Carey said:

Doesn't Mark Cuban have the power to tell Luka to shut up and play?

 

Mark Cuban.  IMO, if Luka ended up being Luka to where it can no longer work in Dallas, I can't imagine Luka going elsewhere without Mark "profitting" from Luka's departure.

Jason Kidd isn't a great HC, but I don't think it'll be a total disaster if it happens either

The beef against Jason Kidd as a coach is that he didn't really develop Giannis to full potential. He apparently told Giannis he just "wasn't a shooter" and Giannis relied more and more on dunks.

Also, he's the offensive specialist at the Lakers for two years and the Lakers still struggle with offense other than Lebron and AD.

ETA: Scottie Pippen is, uh, salty.

He accuses Phil Jackson of racism:

Quote

Going back to those nineties games, you took yourself out of the Knicks 1994 playoff game with 1.8 seconds left. What actually happened? Why’d you refuse to go in the game?

I don’t think it’s a mystery, you need to read between the fine lines. It was my first year playing without Michael Jordan, why wouldn’t I be taking that last shot? I been through all the ups and downs, the battles with the Pistons and now you gonna insult me and tell me to take it out? I thought it was a pretty low blow. I felt like it was an opportunity to give [Kukoc] a rise. It was a racial move to give him a rise. After all I’ve been through with this organization, now you're gonna tell me to take the ball out and throw it to Toni Kukoc? You’re insulting me. That’s how I felt.

You talking about Phil Jackson?

Yeah. Go back and look at it and you can see it. It was my team. Why are you telling me to take the ball out on a game-tying shot. It wasn’t even a game-winning shot. Why are you trying to let him be the hero? He ain’t the leader of this team. No. You trying to make him a hero to hit that shot. If he misses, he playing wit’ house money. He playing what I done earned here. Okay? I have been earning this for Michael Jordan for years and he gets the last shot. And I’m supposed to step inside and let Kukoc get in there? [Scoffs.] Do you understand English? Oh. Okay. Exactly.

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[Maximum Taco]

11 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Whether it's silencing the crowd at MSG, grinning like a hyena at booing, taking a bow after killing the Knicks, doing push-ups on the Philly court, shimmying before hitting a three against the Bucks, this guy's villainous antics are fun as hell to watch. 

Now a finals with him vs. CP3 will be amazing. Both are tiny but ferocious point guards.

The other thing is that this season Trae and the Hawks have the ability to become the ultimate Crushers of Dreams. 

Round 1 - Knicks are back in the playoffs WITH HOME COURT. Not just bounced, but bounced in 5, at HOME at the WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS ARENA. 

Round 2 - Sixers sit atop the East. LeBron is gone from their path. KD is gone from their path, Kawhi may be a problem in the Finals, but not right now. They get past the Hawks and they have a pretty clear shot at the Finals and finally completing the process. EXPOSED by the Hawks to the tune that Ben Simmons is being GIVEN away on Sixers reddit. 

Round 3 - Giannis has affirmed his loyalty to Milwaukee and they are ready to prove that he didn't make a mistake but what if he did?! WHAT IF HE DID?!

If the Hawks beat the Bucks and then face the Clippers in the Finals and WIN?! That's the dream crusher superfecta. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Maximum Taco

[Lady Whistleup]

Speaking of the Clips, they really only activate when down 0-2. Kawhi's kids are cute.

[Carey]

6 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Speaking of the Clips, they really only activate when down 0-2. Kawhi's kids are cute.

You know what, if Los Angeles had lost tonight, I think I definitely bet them to still win the series.  No one's come back from 0-3, but until 2021, no one's come back from 0-2 twice in the same year.  Helps if the coach is the same guy that coached the only team to win an NBA Finals despite losing 3 of it's first four games!

[cambridgeguy]

8 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

Whether it's silencing the crowd at MSG, grinning like a hyena at booing, taking a bow after killing the Knicks, doing push-ups on the Philly court, shimmying before hitting a three against the Bucks, this guy's villainous antics are fun as hell to watch. 

Which once again proves it really is all about perspective.  If it's a player you don't like doing that sort of thing?  WTF are you doing, you damned asshole who is gloating because he beat the flawed (NYK), the wounded (PHL), and, if he pulls it off, the horribly coached (MIL)?  You never saw "insert great player here" doing this sort of stuff. 

And damn, Pippen really seems bitter about a lot of his career.  He'd probably be happier if Kukoc hadn't made that shot, and he failed to mention how right before that he was the one who held the ball too long for a 24 second violation on their previous possession.

Plus he seems to be mangling the situation.  It was a game winning shot - it was a tied game.  Maybe he's saying that if the worst case scenario was overtime then what the hell Phil?

Edited June 25, 2021 by cambridgeguy

[Lady Whistleup]

42 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Which once again proves it really is all about perspective.  If it's a player you don't like doing that sort of thing?  WTF are you doing, you damned asshole who is gloating because he beat the flawed (NYK), the wounded (BKN), and, if he pulls it off, the horribly coached (MIL)?  You never saw "insert great player here" doing this sort of stuff. 

And damn, Pippen really seems bitter about a lot of his career.  He'd probably be happier if Kukoc hadn't made that shot, and he failed to mention how right before that he was the one who held the ball too long for a 24 second violation on their previous possession.

Plus he seems to be mangling the situation.  It was a game winning shot - it was a tied game.  Maybe he's saying that if the worst case scenario was overtime then what the hell Phil?

Hawks put away Philly, not Brooklyn. Philly also was hampered by injuries (Joel Embiid's knee).

Pippen sounds like a sad case. Coaches draw up game-winning plays all the time. Very often the game winner is given to a strong shooter. Pippen needs to get over it. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Scottie is a dumbass:

When did this happen?

2012/13: Dwade, Chris Bosh, Ray Allen

2016: Kyrie Irving

2020: Anthony Davis

[AimingforYoko]

22 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Scottie is a dumbass:

 

Just like you did, right Scottie?

[emmawoodhouse]

Jason Kidd is officially in at Dallas. Pray for them. (And I went to school with Jason, so I've followed his flawed coaching career closer than most). 

Edited June 25, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[Carey]

To be fair, outside of Wade, the help KD had when he won is in such a higher league than the help James had.  However it's still help.

 

I actually admired Kidd as a player.  Not much there in terms of ammo to hate him.  However, IIRC Kidd sorta had Larry Drew fired before filling the void courtesy of that decision.  Not much coaching or leadership experience, I did not like the move then.  Therefore if he falters in Dallas, I don't think I'm losing sleep over it

[Lady Whistleup]

8 minutes ago, Carey said:

To be fair, outside of Wade, the help KD had when he won is in such a higher league than the help James had.  However it's still help.

 

I actually admired Kidd as a player.  Not much there in terms of ammo to hate him.  However, IIRC Kidd sorta had Larry Drew fired before filling the void courtesy of that decision.  Not much coaching or leadership experience, I did not like the move then.  Therefore if he falters in Dallas, I don't think I'm losing sleep over it

The main beef with Kidd as coach is that when he was coaching the Bucks Giannis actually regressed in several metrics -- 3pt % for one. He also fussed with Giannis's shooting form. Another mark against him was that in his two years as Lakers offensive assistant coach many players struggled offensively. 

He also had a drinking problem. Don't know whether he still does.

But Luka is not easy to coach, so good luck to Jason Kidd.

[Lady Whistleup]

Ok Scottie Pippen is just not a nice person. Great player, but this is way out of line:

Quote

Interesting you mentioned Charles Barkley, because he once said that he would “get arrested for murder” if you didn’t apologize to him for calling him “fat” after your breakup with the Rockets.

I wish he woulda went through with it. I never apologized to him, but I’ll tell you what: He only got arrested for throwing some little white guys out of a window. I ain’t never seen him fight a Black man unless there were referees around. He plays his role like he’s tough. I don’t know nobody he done whooped. Go back and check his record. Did I apologize to him? I told him to get me the hell out of there. That’s what I recall.

AFAIK Charles Barkley hasn't said anything negative about Scottie in years.

By the way this is the source of their beef.

Scottie needs to build a bridge and get over it with all these petty resentments.

[emmawoodhouse]

Scottie took one out of his former teammate's playbook.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

Chauncey Billups is the Blazers' new HC.

Now this is one of the rare cases where we do have evidence that he is a bad person.

[Danny Franks]

So the Bucks returned to form in game two, which confirms the dynamic of this series - the Hawks will need to play out of their skins to win, but the Bucks have more depth and more guys who just need to hit par.

I still think that either team out of the West looks stronger than these two.

[Lady Whistleup]

Kentavious Caldwell Pope got robbed at gunpoint.

[Carey]

9 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

So the Bucks returned to form in game two, which confirms the dynamic of this series - the Hawks will need to play out of their skins to win, but the Bucks have more depth and more guys who just need to hit par.

I still think that either team out of the West looks stronger than these two.

ITA.  Trae is amazing, but I think Milwaukee has a better chance at winning the Finals due to your valid points.  The Bucks have people needed to counter the depth of Phoenix and the Clippers.

Doesn't help that the West will be hosting the East in the first two games (and a possible Game 7), regardless of whichever of the 4 matchups take place

[Lady Whistleup]

You know, I have a question. I've noticed that many, many NBA players now rely on the teardrop floater -- Trae Young, CP3, Steph Curry and Ja Morant often use the teardrop in the paint. Anyone know when this shot became popular? I don't remember seeing it as a kid. Now it seems it's the go-to shot for the smaller PG's in the paint.

Here's another photo that surprised me: CP3 often looks SO tiny next to his teammates. Here's a picture of him with Michael Phelps that reminded me that no, he's actually not that short compared to non-NBA people.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[Sile]

56 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

You know, I have a question. I've noticed that many, many NBA players now rely on the teardrop floater -- Trae Young, CP3, Steph Curry and Ja Morant often use the teardrop in the paint. Anyone know when this shot became popular? I don't remember seeing it as a kid. Now it seems it's the go-to shot for the smaller PG's in the paint.

 

Tony Parker was the first one I remember that really shot the teardrop on the regular.  A few years later, Nate Robinson.

Sort of the short (relatively) guys version of a finger roll.  Other than a Larry Bird J, there's nothing prettier in basketball than a well executed finger roll, IMO.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Sile
To add a little finger roll!

[twoods]

The Clippers are playing ugly basketball right now. 28 points with 3 minutes to go in the first half? Yikes.

[LexieLily]

Go on and get yourself that championship ring, CP3.

[Lady Whistleup]

23 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Go on and get yourself that championship ring, CP3.

Well ... lost amidst the Suns going up 3-1 is that CP3's return hasn't been that great. He hasn't been shooting well. 

[Lady Whistleup]

An article about Cameron Payne, who a year ago was kicking it around in the G leagues and now is a valuable sixth-man type player for the Suns.

Just goes to show how deep the talent pool is in the NBA that people like Cam Payne and Seth Curry both dogged it out in the G leagues.

[xaxat]

I really like the TNT pre-game show. The guys are entertaining and have earned their many Emmys. And there is not a sports show that has come close to addressing the pandemic/social issues of the past year and half as they have.

But the actual basketball IQ is sooo much higher when Candace Parker is on the show.

(I know. She's got a day job.)

Edited June 28, 2021 by xaxat