The NBA

[DrSpaceman]

Now Lebron says he had a broken hand for the last 3 games.  From punching a wall or something (probably JR Smith) after game one loss. 

Don't care, that was not going to make a difference in the series.  When Cleveland blew game one this series was over. 

[ganesh]

Yeah that's why I credited Tex in my comment. I was saying Phil recognized that was the right system for Jordan and built around that. 

Prior, he was getting beat by Detroit and Boston all the time. 

Edited June 9, 2018 by ganesh

[MVFrostsMyPie]

30 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

Now Lebron says he had a broken hand for the last 3 games.  From punching a wall or something (probably JR Smith) after game one loss. 

Don't care, that was not going to make a difference in the series.  When Cleveland blew game one this series was over. 

I'd be surprised if he didn't come up with excuses. I think he also equates a contusion with a broken bone. Or I think he meant to say his ego is broken, not his hand.

Edited June 9, 2018 by MVFrostsMyPie

[Ohwell]

I can't wait until Monday to see Papi from Highly Questionable roast LeBrokenPaw.

[Kip Hackman]

12 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Wherever LeBron James goes next, I hope that team gets every bit of the criticism the Warriors have had for signing Durant.

Let's not rewrite history. Nobody criticized the Warriors for signing Durant. Given the chance, they would've been fools not to. 

Durant took all the heat, for jumping to a 73-win team. He was the one raked over the coals, not the GSW.

Fans loved the Dubs when they were the plucky upstarts. Now they're sick of seeing them win, so they hate them. And 20 years from now, when there's a new dynasty, these same fans will say, "Yeah, this team is good. But they're no Golden State."

Same as it ever was. 

[twoods]

Very true. Durant took all the heat, not the Warriors. It was on par to the vitriol Lebron had going to Miami to become the “big three.” In this day and age, it’s going to be rare to see one player stay with the same team until they retire. Curry will probably be one of them since he’s already won three rings, and maybe Westwood but he even may get sick of losing and try going to another team. 

I don’t know why Lebron brought up the broken hand now. I know it was so Green won’t try to kick him in the hand to make it worse (I kid...sort of), but he could have played with a soft splint and protected it. Seeing pictures, there is definitely swelling where the typical boxer’s fracture is so he’s not lying. 

[Danny Franks]

5 hours ago, Kip Hackman said:

Let's not rewrite history. Nobody criticized the Warriors for signing Durant. Given the chance, they would've been fools not to. 

Durant took all the heat, for jumping to a 73-win team. He was the one raked over the coals, not the GSW.

Fans loved the Dubs when they were the plucky upstarts. Now they're sick of seeing them win, so they hate them. And 20 years from now, when there's a new dynasty, these same fans will say, "Yeah, this team is good. But they're no Golden State."

Same as it ever was. 

Fair enough. Then in that case, I hope LeBron gets slaughtered by everyone for going to a team that's been manufactured to win a championship.

Hell, even when he went back to Cleveland they tore up their roster to give him the players he thought he needed to win. It's not like he went in there to nobly lift up a bunch of nobodies.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Danny Franks

[Jx223]

I don't see LeBron getting the same criticism that Kevin got, because the biggest reason why Kevin was criticized for going to the Warriors is because OKC had them down 3-1. A lot of people thought he looked weak joining the team that he should have beaten the year prior. Especially since it was reported he was talking to them before that series was even over with. If Kevin had joined anybody except the Warriors he wouldn't have gotten criticized like that. He could have joined the Spurs and people would have praised the decision. He could have joined the Cavs and received less criticism.

I think that unless LeBron joins the Warriors, he's not going to get anywhere near that type of criticism.

[Kip Hackman]

On 6/9/2018 at 2:10 AM, kathyk24 said:

I wonder if the same people who think the Warriors are bad for basketball thought the Bulls winning three in row was bad for the NBA.

I'm sure they did. We just didn't have the internet or Twitter back then. So we had to complain to each other. 

[DrSpaceman]

We most certainly had in the internet in the mid/late 90s when the Bulls won the second of 3 titles.  And message boards. 

But no twitter. 

Very few ever thought Jordan was bad for the NBA though. Jordan took the NBA brand global, more than any other single player in NBA history. 

The Celtics/Lakers rivalry headlined by Bird/Magic revamped a staggering league in the early 80s and made it relevant again in the national sports realm.

Jordan took over from them and made it relevant internationally. 

I was never a huge Bulls fan.  I liked them, I liked Jordan.  But I rooted against them in a few series, against the Pacers and Utah. 

But I never though Jordan or the Bulls were bad for the league. 

[Kip Hackman]

16 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

We most certainly had in the internet in the mid/late 90s when the Bulls won the second of 3 titles.  And message boards.

Yeah, but access/usage wasn't the same. Percentage of internet use by adults for the Bull's last three titles:

1996 - 23%

1997 - 36%

1998 - 41%

[Danny Franks]

Someone on Reddit dug up this Sports Illustrated cover from 1997, which suggests these same conversations were being had, even if they weren't happening online:

In the case of Jordan's Bulls, they weren't bad for the league. They were dominant for a period, then the team broke up as players got old, or sought money elsewhere. And when that happened, the Spurs won a title followed by the Lakers winning three in a row. And I'll bet people were saying that the Shaq/Kobe Lakers were bad for the league too.

But it frustrates me to hear supposedly serious journalists, like those on the Ringer podcast, whine about how they were bored by the finals, because the Warriors are too good, and in the very next breath they'll talk about how great it would be to see LeBron go to the Spurs or Rockets and create another super-team. It's almost like these guys think the Warriors don't have the right to be a dynasty, but any team LeBron plays for does.

[Ohwell]

6 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

It's almost like these guys think the Warriors don't have the right to be a dynasty, but any team LeBron plays for does.

Exactly!

[Fukui San]

There certainly was talk about Jordan getting all of the calls back in the day. I remember that!

Remember how Jordan retired the 2nd time in 1999? In my recollection, the GM of the Bulls Jerry Krause was said to be eager to move on from Jordan, Pippen, and Jackson for years in order to have the chance to build a new great team. He got his man in at coach in Tim Floyd to replace Phil Jackson. Jordan retired and they traded Pippen to Houston. Krause would build around Toni Kukoc and #1 overall pick Elton Brand. He also drafted Ron Artest that year. He'd make all the right moves, and he'd be hailed as the true basketball genius behind the Bulls' dynasty.

The team won 17, 15, 21, and 30 games in the next four years which gets Floyd canned and Krause retired. Top 7 and better picks like Marcus Fizer, Chris Mihm, and Eddy Curry did nothing. Jay Williams ruined his career in a motorcycle accident before he could make an impact.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Fukui San said:

There certainly was talk about Jordan getting all of the calls back in the day. I remember that!

That's kind of an occupational hazard though. If you talk to Tim Duncan, I'm sure he firmly believes he never committed a foul in 21 years of pro ball. Bird got calls before Jordan. I'm sure Doctor J was given an extra step now and then too. 

I don't recall the Bulls really blowing the doors off anyone though. Maybe the Suns? Was that the 72-10 year? They didn't even have home court advantage for a couple of them. Not for nothing, Malone, don't hold the ball out with one hand underneath the basket for Jordan to pluck it like a peach and throw down on you in game 6 either. 

I think that might be a problem with the modern game and why people are griping now. I don't recall such an imbalance between West and East. Even going through the eastern conference, you wouldn't see a #1 seed get swept. 

[Kip Hackman]

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

But it frustrates me to hear supposedly serious journalists, like those on the Ringer podcast, whine about how they were bored by the finals, because the Warriors are too good, and in the very next breath they'll talk about how great it would be to see LeBron go to the Spurs or Rockets and create another super-team. It's almost like these guys think the Warriors don't have the right to be a dynasty, but any team LeBron plays for does.

I'm not even sure what constitutes serious sports journalism these days. It surely can't be all these "hot take" shows on ESPN and Fox Sports.

I think history will look back pretty favorably on this Golden State dynasty. And by "history", I mean 10 years from now.

 

What's frustrating for me is that, for a sport that only allows 5 players in a starting lineup, the NBA is the most competitively unbalanced league in the US. Always has been.  Especially if you live in a free agent "No Go" city (ie: Charlotte, Memphis). The fine folks in OKC are going to be in for a rude awakening when Russell Westbrook is no longer there.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

LOL, Dray's shirt this year is even better than last year's. 

[isalicat]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssssssssssss! That is all :)

[MVFrostsMyPie]

My favorite sign so far: 

[meep.meep]

On 6/12/2018 at 6:15 AM, Danny Franks said:

But it frustrates me to hear supposedly serious journalists, like those on the Ringer podcast, whine about how they were bored by the finals, because the Warriors are too good, and in the very next breath they'll talk about how great it would be to see LeBron go to the Spurs or Rockets and create another super-team. It's almost like these guys think the Warriors don't have the right to be a dynasty, but any team LeBron plays for does.

I think part of it is actually a bias against west coast teams.  Certainly in football, the great 49er teams and more recently the Seahawks don't get the same respect, or coverage, from sportswriters that any team from east of the Mississippi does.  Has anybody every managed to explain what a "finesse" team is?  The only team they don't pull that with is the Raiders, because they used to paralyze people.

The Warriors figured out a new way to win basketball games - to consistently make 3 point shots.  They're good at the other parts too.  They deserve the respect from the people who claim they know sports better than the rest of us.

[Jx223]

According to various sources, including reporters from ESPN, Kawhi Leonard wants to be traded from the Spurs. There are reports he is interested in the Lakers. I wonder if he is traded which team the Spurs may trade him to:

www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23803570/kawhi-leonard-wants-san-antonio-spurs

Edited June 15, 2018 by Jx223

[LexieLily]

Why does everyone want to go to the Lakers all of a sudden? Their team is trash.

[AimingforYoko]

The Celtics were 24-58 in 2007. Danny Ainge trades for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and the next season they win the title. It can happen pretty fast in the NBA.

[Magog]

Quote

Why does everyone want to go to the Lakers all of a sudden? Their team is trash.

For a variety of reasons.

Because some NBA players like Southern California a lot.

The Lakers will break the bank for them.

 Magic Johnson is there.

 A lot of people on ESPN (mainly Stephen A Smith) really want the Lakers to be contenders again. They may worship & root for their Golden State Warriors, but they also worship & root for the Lakers.

Stephen A Smith wants Showtime to come back on the Lakers. Even though that era was 30 yrs ago, a lot of people still love that era today & they want that back by any means necessary. 

Le Bron might go there & you know that Stephen A Smith & ESPN are praying that it happens. 

Some people (especially Stephen A Smith) think the NBA isn't much fun without the Lakers being in the mix for a title. 

 

Quote

LOL, Dray's shirt this year is even better than last year's. 

I actually liked that shirt. It was Draymond being classy as usual. If that was Stephen Curry wearing that shirt, I would be very irritated & it wouldn't be very funny. Since it came from Draymond, I'm OK with that. 

[Kip Hackman]

2 minutes ago, Magog said:

The Lakers will break the bank for them.

 

That's a big part of it. Right now the Lakers can afford 2 max contracts. That makes it a pretty attractive destination for top-tier players. 

[Danny Franks]

10 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Why does everyone want to go to the Lakers all of a sudden? Their team is trash.

I can understand why players would want to go there. But I can't understand why NBA journalists are so pleased with the prospect of LeBron taking two other all-stars there with him. Except, I suppose, that they're a team that's allowed to dominate the league. Because they've done so historically, unlike those upstart Warriors. If they're so sick of the same team winning, and want to see new championship contenders in the NBA, who better than the team that's appeared in the finals a record thirty one times?

Edited June 16, 2018 by Danny Franks

[isalicat]

Why does everyone want to go to the Lakers? Luke Walton, of course.

As a Warriors fan, the prospect of beating a team consisting of LeWhine, Kawhi and the fragile and aged CP plus a bunch of scrubs is wonderful! Bring it!!!

[DrSpaceman]

Its obvious going to be Lebron, Kawhi and Paul George in LA next season. 

Whether that means Lonzo staying or being part of some trade to obtain the others I think remains to be seen. 

[LexieLily]

6 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

Its obvious going to be Lebron, Kawhi and Paul George in LA next season. 

Whether that means Lonzo staying or being part of some trade to obtain the others I think remains to be seen. 

Does that qualify as a superteam to legit threaten the Warriors/Rockets or will it be a OKC Big Three situation where it never lives up to the hype? We don't know what Kawhi is like physically and that team would have no depth and no guards, unless LeBron got Wade to follow him again. Do the Lakers have space to sign two of them outright and one would have to be a sign-and-trade?

I still don't know why LeBron would want to go to the West. 

[twoods]

I agree. It makes more sense for him to stay in the east. No matter how much they “stack” the Lakers, they won’t compete with the chemistry of the Warriors. I don’t want to see Lebron or Kawhi here. PG makes sense since he’s from southern Cali but that’s it- their young core is decent and can do well in a few years.

[DrSpaceman]

I don't know why Lebron would want to go west either. 

But I still think he will. 

And for one I think he is arrogant enough to think that if he surrounds himself by the right players like he did in Miami, better players than in Cleveland once again, he can beat the Warriors.

I don't think that's true.  But I think he believes its true. 

[Danny Franks]

After hearing the sports media people talking about how great it would be if LeBron went to L.A. or Houston, or even San Antonio, and stopped the Warriors from even reaching the finals by creating a new super-team, I really hope he does go west. And gets beaten by the Warriors. It would make so many heads explode.

Because if people think the NBA is boring because the Warriors are dominant, just imagine how it would feel for the Lakers to have another dynasty in the making. Again.

[kathyk24]

19 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

After hearing the sports media people talking about how great it would be if LeBron went to L.A. or Houston, or even San Antonio, and stopped the Warriors from even reaching the finals by creating a new super-team, I really hope he does go west. And gets beaten by the Warriors. It would make so many heads explode.

Because if people think the NBA is boring because the Warriors are dominant, just imagine how it would feel for the Lakers to have another dynasty in the making. Again.

I think fans like when a team they rooted for as a child is winning titles. No one would be complaining if the Lakers instead of the Warriors had won three of four titles. Fans don't like it when a team who their favorite used to beat starts beating them.

[twoods]

7 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

I think fans like when a team they rooted for as a child is winning titles. No one would be complaining if the Lakers instead of the Warriors had won three of four titles. Fans don't like it when a team who their favorite used to beat starts beating them.

Yes, everyone would be complaining except for Lakers fans. I heard it through the three peat and then the back to back. Plus, the Lakers are one of the most hated franchises. At least they didn’t play the same team every year in the Finals (which I think is more tedious) and there were seasons where they weren’t as dominating as the Warriors have been (lucky last second shots, series going to game 7). Everyone knows the Warriors would win the past two seasons, and if the team stays intact they will cakewalk next season as well.

[ganesh]

Plus, if it were the Lakers, the media would spin it something like return to tradition. 

[Fukui San]

LeBron forcing his way to the Lakers would be a return to tradition. Once a generation, a basketball superstar decides to screw over his current team to insist on going to the Lakers. It's like the slayers in the Buffyverse. They're just called there by the universe.

Wilt

Quote

But when Wilt returned, he said that he had changed his mind, that he was not going to play in Philadelphia again, and he demanded a trade to a West Coast team – to Seattle, Los Angeles, or San Diego. When we indicated that we weren’t interested in trading him, he said that he’d jump to the ABA team in Los Angeles.

Jabbar

Quote

Although Abdul-Jabbar always spoke well of Milwaukee and its fans, he said that being in the Midwest did not fit his cultural needs. In October 1974, he requested a trade to either the New York Knicks or Los Angeles.

Shaq

Quote

In other words, had Shaq, with just four years and one completed contract under his belt, been a free agent in this year's class, or in 1994, or 1998, or 1999, or 2000, or at any other time in free agent history other than that one three-year window, the Magic would've had the ability to match L.A.'s offer of $120 million over seven, which, for all their missteps, they surely would have done.

But in 1996, they didn't have this luxury. If Shaq wanted to take the Lakers' deal, there was nothing Orlando could do about it. Armato personally went to Atlanta to discuss the offers with Shaq.

Kobe

Quote

The one team that was seen as the biggest threat to throw a wrench is this whole plan was the New Jersey Nets, who held the No. 8 pick. Then-general manager John Nash and coach John Calipari were in charge of turning the Nets around, and Nash was said to be particularly impressed and almost obsessed with drafting Kobe, as told in Jonathan Abrams's New York Times best-seller Boys Among Men.

Kobe, allegedly, didn't want to play for the Nets due to a falling out with his family. Rumors suddenly began flying that Bryant was willing to play in Italy if he didn't end up with the NBA team of his desire. In other words, the Lakers.

And so the stakes were set. And the draft began. 

Of the top 6 Lakers ever, only Magic and West were actually drafted by the Lakers without the players doing something to force their way there. Magic came via a lopsided draft pick trade and was drafted #1 overall, but it was an honest swindling in my estimation. They made a trade for a pick three years into the future and fortunately for them it was #1 overall the year Magic came out. From the same link, James Worthy came the same way. West was the only one picked by the Lakers own draft pick.

To be fair, I'd rather live in LA than New Jersey or Milwaukee or Cleveland or Orlando, all things being equal.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Fukui San
spelling

[Jx223]

The NBA draft is tonight. I am interested in seeing what happens in it and also happens as a result of it. 

Also, yesterday Dwight Howard was traded from the Hornets to the Nets. According to former NBA player Brendan Haywood the Hornets locker room did not care for Dwight. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Jx223

[mojoween]

I guess Jay Bilas wasn’t kidding when he said to take the over on wingspan references at 4.5.

Grayson Allen to Utah and the crowd boos because they felt like they needed to, but you can tell their heart wasn’t in it.  I mean, it’s New York.  They probably saw six people get tripped in the subway on the way to Barclays.

Edited June 22, 2018 by mojoween

[Kip Hackman]

Hornets should've traded Kemba, drafted Porter, and embraced the tank.  Instead, it looks like they plan to chase another #8 seed, and pick in the low teens again. #NBAPurgatory

[roamyn]

Rumors this morning - per ESPN - are that LeBron has narrowed his choices to LA & CLE.   Apparently his family didn't like Houston; don't know why Philly is supposedly out of contention.

If he goes to LA, he's an idiot.  I don't mind if he leaves CLE since I got to see our only once in a 1/2 century championship (f*g Travis Bauer & Jose Mesa).  I just think he's setting himself up for a bigger headache trying to control Papa Big Mouth, if he goes to LA.

[Fukui San]

Why not Philly? How about none of their core players can shoot? LeBron likes to surround himself with shooters. 

[DrSpaceman]

1 hour ago, roamyn said:

Rumors this morning - per ESPN - are that LeBron has narrowed his choices to LA & CLE.   Apparently his family didn't like Houston; don't know why Philly is supposedly out of contention.

If he goes to LA, he's an idiot.  I don't mind if he leaves CLE since I got to see our only once in a 1/2 century championship (f*g Travis Bauer & Jose Mesa).  I just think he's setting himself up for a bigger headache trying to control Papa Big Mouth, if he goes to LA.

And yet the rumors are SA turned down LAs overtures for Kawhi.  Lebron and PG isn't nearly enough in LA to put them really anywhere in the west.  Playoff team, that's about it. 

Howard actually played well for the Hornets last year, but I read as well in the local papers his teammates did not like him.  And now the rumors are Nets are going to buy out the last year of his contract

I will be shocked if Kemba is not traded either in the offseason or before the trade deadline.  He has made it pretty clear he is not re-signing there as a FA.  And I can't blame him

Should have taken a shot and drafted Porter.  He COULD be the type of franchise changing player you need.  Your best chance at getting that player at least in the last decade

Pacers I think got the perfect fit in Aaron Holiday.  He and Oladipo are going to make a great backcourt. combination

[Maximum Taco]

On 6/22/2018 at 11:01 AM, roamyn said:

Rumors this morning - per ESPN - are that LeBron has narrowed his choices to LA & CLE.   Apparently his family didn't like Houston; don't know why Philly is supposedly out of contention.

If he goes to LA, he's an idiot.  I don't mind if he leaves CLE since I got to see our only once in a 1/2 century championship (f*g Travis Bauer & Jose Mesa).  I just think he's setting himself up for a bigger headache trying to control Papa Big Mouth, if he goes to LA.

If LeBron goes to LA, I would be shocked if Lonzo is not shipped out.

LeBron is one of the only players who will become the defacto GM on any team he joins, and he's not the biggest fan of the Big Ballers. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Maximum Taco

[Danny Franks]

Yeah, the Lakers will sell their future to get two or three years of James. Ship out young players and sell off draft picks to bring in the guys James wants. And this shouldn't be forgotten when people lament how he had a bad team around him in Cleveland. Some of those guys were of his choosing (The most lamented player of the Finals, JR Smith, for example, wouldn't have been there if James didn't want him), and some of them were the only guys they could afford after other players James wanted didn't work out.

I'm all for it. I'd like to see the Lakers splash out on James, and then see the Warriors beat them two years in a row, before James decides that the Western Conference isn't for him after all. Lonzo Ball is going to be a very good player, even with his dad hogging media attention, and the Lakers will regret it if they ship him out. And if they ship out Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram and any other young player that James doesn't fancy playing with, to replace them with mercenaries who are there because they think James can win them a ring.

[roamyn]

The article disappeared from MSN, but Brian Winhorst has close ties to James’s camp, so I tend to give the rumors a grain of truth.

Besides, Inthought Big Mouth Baller was going to take Lonzo to another team if they didn’t draft or invite LiAngelo.  Remember, he said all three of his sons were going to play 2gether on the same team?  I didn’t realize he was talking abt a pick-up team on the local playground.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Steph Curry and Chris Paul were on Celebrity Family Feud tonight.

Spoiler

The Curry's crushed it! Chris Paul had a bunch of steals and still.... missed the shot. Ayesha almost single-handedly won the fast money round! 

[twoods]

The Curry family was cute, but Shaq and Charles killed it in last week’s episode. I couldn’t stop laughing.

[Jx223]

Congrats to James Harden on winning MVP and to Ben Simmons, Victor Oladipo and the other players on winning their respective awards.

Also, according to Adrian Wojnarowski Austin Rivers has been traded by the Clippers to the WIzards for Marcin Gortat. I am interested in seeing what other moves will be made by teams before and during free agency. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Jx223

[Magog]

Should I even get remotely excited about Collin Sexton? I find him to be pretty "meh" to me. Other than him playing in Alabama, I don't know very much about him or whether he will be any good.

17 hours ago, Jx223 said:

Congrats to James Harden on winning MVP and to Ben Simmons, Victor Oladipo and the other players on winning their respective awards.

As for James Harden winning MVP, I could careless. Even though that award is for the regular season, he really doesn't excite me at all. He is lucky that MVP doesn't put the postseason in consideration because with that, he wouldn't of gotten it at all. 

17 hours ago, Jx223 said:

Also, according to Adrian Wojnarowski Austin Rivers has been traded by the Clippers to the WIzards for Marcin Gortat

We will finally see what that loser is finally made of in the NBA now that he won't have his daddy (Doc Rivers) around babying his stupid ass. He is not worth a damn in the NBA & he really sucks. Austin will also have to deal with another loser & Stephen A Smith's whipping boy, John Wall. 

All this Lakers talk is making me sick. A lot of people (especially Stephen A Smith) are really hoping that LeBron goes there & that Paul George will go there too. They also would be very happy if Kwhali Leonard goes there too. Paul George better hope that this happens because that will be the only way that he will ever contend for a ring. Not that I want the Lakers to be contenders again for a championship & winning it. That will be as enjoyable as having 2 abscesses in the teeth. It is bad enough that those Warriors are still there kicking ass. Its basically going from one evil empire to another.

 Paul George is also not to be trusted in the clutch. I wonder if Magic Johnson even realized that part. Kwahli Leonard & Klay Thompson are better & more clutch than Paul George. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Magog

[Fukui San]

1 hour ago, Magog said:

Should I even get remotely excited about Collin Sexton? I find him to be pretty "meh" to me. Other than him playing in Alabama, I don't know very much about him or whether he will be any good.

 

He almost lead a 3 person team to victory over a 5 person team last year when the rest of the team got thrown out/injured/etc.