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AmandaPanda

S02.E06: Girl Meets The Tell-Tale Tot

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Is it kosher to post the preview?

Edited by Gbb

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Absolutely! I was creating this thread in the middle of a million other things, so I didn't have the time to find the preview for the first post.

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Dorm parties are not like that!? My dorm parties sucked but they were still better than that. But Josh's face when the sorority girls when they got Riley for initiation was perfect.

 

It was also nice to see Madison McLaughlin again (She played a pretty important one off role on Teen Wolf in season 3, and I remember being impressed with her acting then. Still am)

 

I think the reason why I identify with this show is because I am SUCH a Riley, but I liked how this episode turned into an episode of girls helping girls and not a girl looks slightly crazy because she chased a boy older than she was. and Uncle Boing (haha) was a good sport about it, understanding. Maya trying to play it cool was priceless. We've all been there, and it was funny to see how Josh reacted when she did so "hi yeah whatever."

 

Ben Savage directed this episode. Not very relevant to my post, but nice to see.

 

The Tell Tale Heart terrified me when I was in Jr High, but I liked how Corey's lesson was woven into the episode! and it made sense!! 

 

I've said it before and I will say it again, this show has finally hit its stride.

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It was also nice to see Madison McLaughlin again (She played a pretty important one off role on Teen Wolf in season 3, and I remember being impressed with her acting then. Still am)

 

She also had a decent two-ep role on Supernatural. She's a very likable actress.

 

I really liked Josh's "It does not say that!" when Maya was reading his letter. Seemed very much like something the brother of Cory and Eric would do. And I thought it was sweet that he went all the way to New York to share the news with Cory. Although timeline still bugs. Dude should be 16 and a sophomore. I liked that they went to a college party and nothing terrible happened. 

 

Line of the night goes to "We're in middle school" followed by "Everything that's wrong in the world is your fault!" "What?!" "Sorry, that's for later."

 

Cory, why ya teaching English?

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Does Maya's crush on Josh make anyone else uncomfortable? Maybe it's because she comes on so strong. And maybe I dont like that he seemingly has to feel bad because he doesnt like her in that way. It kind of reminds me of when Topanga had a crush on Eric in season one. I'm glad though that made everyone see each other differently.

I liked Riley a lot in this one. The sorority stuff was comedy gold.

Auggie was so cute keeping Riley's secret.

Edited by blugirlami21
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VERY over the top, but quite funny because of that.

 

I think we've seen that in a few recent episodes. They're comfortable enough to be silly now, and because the silliness is actually succeeding at being funny, it's not undermining the actual plotline (plus the silliness is that X-Factor to the show that allows Rowan Blanchard to be about twice as good as last season, because it plays to her performing strength).  Also, we're getting back to mischievous Maya, a zone where she's vastly entertaining.


Heck, even Auggie is working much better this season, and last season it seemed flat out impossible he could.

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Although timeline still bugs. Dude should be 16 and a sophomore.

 

 

Josh is 17, and will turn 18 on Valentine's Day (birthday established in BMW).  I didn't turn 18 until March of my freshman year.

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I am really enjoying this season and agree the show seems to have embraced it's silly OTT side with wonderful results. Sure the sorority stuff was ridiculous, but it was also ridiculously funny, at least to me. And I loved how the older girls kind of took Maya in and guided her instead of laughing at the silly little girl. And yeah, even Auggie isn't annoying. What the....?

 

Good ep. Crazy, ridiculous and incredibly fun.

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If wanting that tater tot to become a recurring character is wrong, I do not want to be right.

 

Any episode following Mr. Squirrels had a high hill to climb. This episode's blend of absurdity and the show's recurring "growing up" theme was a good follow-up, I thought. But seriously, cut out the school room scenes unless school is required. They couldn't just have Riley and Maya reading that story at home for English class instead of continuing to turn Cory into the only teacher any of these kids have?

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If wanting that tater tot to become a recurring character is wrong, I do not want to be right.

 

Any episode following Mr. Squirrels had a high hill to climb. This episode's blend of absurdity and the show's recurring "growing up" theme was a good follow-up,

 

Loved it too. I agree the show has really hit its stride this season. I hope they keep it going. I'm really loving the mix absurdity and (semi) real life lessons. Speaking of which...

 

But seriously, cut out the school room scenes unless school is required. They couldn't just have Riley and Maya reading that story at home for English class instead of continuing to turn Cory into the only teacher any of these kids have?

 

Especially now that they've winked and nodded at the absurdity of Cory being their teacher again and not *really* teaching history, I'm totally on board with using his classroom as a frame to build that week's moral around. I like the classroom scenes and don't really care how they make them work.

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I am really enjoying this season and agree the show seems to have embraced it's silly OTT side with wonderful results. Sure the sorority stuff was ridiculous, but it was also ridiculously funny, at least to me. And I loved how the older girls kind of took Maya in and guided her instead of laughing at the silly little girl. And yeah, even Auggie isn't annoying. What the....?

 

Good ep. Crazy, ridiculous and incredibly fun.

What really clinches it with Auggie (so far, unless they backslide) is not only the banishment of that stupid Ava character, but also of the "I'm five" level of dialogue and mentality.  Okay, we don't want a mini-adult, but they had him act like a baby last season, and now he's much more in the tradition of slightly mischievous/wisecracking sitcom kids.  

Given that the actual kid playing Auggie is several years older than the character, it was easy to mature the character, because he was probably always capable of doing more than the baby stuff--so they just aged his personality up a bit (more than the few months older he'd be anyway).

As for the absurdity, yeah.  Talking Tater Tot delusions, super-tongue-in-cheek-reality-breaking sorority scenes, and such?  Wonderful.  As long as the silliness doesn't take over, doesn't try to trump the actual story?  Keep it.

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The more I think about it, the more enamored I am with the "dorm party" scene. It was such a pleasant surprise to see the college girls immediately understand what was going on with Maya and take her under their wings rather than playing to stereotypes and have them be bitchy or pitying or dismissive, or some combination of the three. I also really liked seeing Riley as the one pushing Maya to do something scary rather than the other way around. And though it was played for an OTT joke (that I found hilarious) we may have gotten a tiny glimpse of the future with the football players and Gamma Gamma Nu girls. When they do make it to college, I can see Riley as the one who fits in more quickly into the social & sorority scene than Maya.

 

Finally, I really love how they showed us that Maya's crush on Josh is based on something more than the Boing!factor and that the fact that she sees him as a loving and caring person is a part of her attraction to him.  Of course, with Josh being set up to be around more now, they're going to have to play it carefully to avoid  the ick  factor until Maya's character is older.

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This honestly is the most ridiculous episode of the show. I hated everything about it. Everything in season 2 was actually going fairly well until this one. 

 

Why on earth are we making Josh out to be the bad guy for not wanting to date a 14 year old girl? It's not just the age difference. It's about maturity. Maya is not mature enough to handle a relationship with a 17 almost 18 year old as evidenced by the fact that she literally will not take no for an answer. She refuses to take into consideration Josh's feelings. He is extremely uncomfortable with her advances, but all she cares about is herself.  It's realistic for her to hold onto the crush because crushes don't just fade away. I also can see how she would think of this as love. She's in middle school after all. But someone with that line of thought is obviously not mature enough to handle a relationship. 

 

So those super supportive girls was such a stupid thing to do. Yeah, nurture her and let her know it's alright to feel this way. But don't justify her coming out unsupervised to a college party in New York at night. And don't encourage her to hold a candle for a boy for three more years when you have no idea if Josh will have a girlfriend or not in that time. And don't try to guilt Josh into feeling something for someone who he is basically equivalent to his niece. Not to mention the fact that it is illegal. If Josh were to feel something for her then we'd all be like 'What is he doing preying on a 14 year old?', but because Maya happens to be younger we call it a crush and let it go.

 

It's like Gravity Falls. Dipper had a huge crush on Wendy and it hurt when she didn't return it, but now he's over it. And things are great. They are much better friends without him trying to secretly plan how to get her to like him or manipulating the situation.

 

Basically, I am so over this plot. And I hope we drop it. 

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Josh is 17, and will turn 18 on Valentine's Day (birthday established in BMW).  I didn't turn 18 until March of my freshman year.

 

According to Wiki, he was born on-screen in 1999, which SHOULD make him 16, but whatever. Michael Jacobs has never let little things like timelines bug him. You would think they would have gone with Josh's cannon age, because that would make him 16 and Maya 13 and keep Maya's age more in line with 8th grade, but whatever.

 

It's also possible that this could be 2016. They never say the year on the show.

 

I really liked the absurdity and sorority stuff. This show is really finding its own weird little voice, but I will say it does kind of bother me that it seems like everything is turning into about what Maya wants and how Maya feels. Maya wants Shawn with Katy, so we're supposed to hope that Shawn never gets back with Angela. Maya gets made fun of for being short, so we're supposed to feel bad for her despite all the times she's made fun of Lukas. And Maya wants Josh, so we're supposed to make Josh feel bad because he's a senior who doesn't want to date a girl in 8th grade. I get that they give Maya all this angst because she plays it so will, but sometimes it just gets really heavy-handed.

Edited by methodwriter85
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Why on earth are we making Josh out to be the bad guy for not wanting to date a 14 year old girl? It's not just the age difference. It's about maturity. Maya is not mature enough to handle a relationship with a 17 almost 18 year old as evidenced by the fact that she literally will not take no for an answer. She refuses to take into consideration Josh's feelings. He is extremely uncomfortable with her advances, but all she cares about is herself.  It's realistic for her to hold onto the crush because crushes don't just fade away. I also can see how she would think of this as love. She's in middle school after all. But someone with that line of thought is obviously not mature enough to handle a relationship. 

 

I don't think we're supposed to see Josh as the bad guy at all. I think we're supposed to see Josh as a decent guy determined to do the right thing. He's been properly appalled at the idea of dating a 14 year old (if a small part of him might be intrigued at the idea of a possible someday). The other guy at the party also reacted exactly as he should have at the idea of coming on to girls in middle school: Ack! and a step back.  I loved how supportive the girls were to Maya, but I agree they probably should have tossed in a "and who knows if you'll even feel this way in 4 years" when they talked about her being 18 and going after Josh. That could have been the reason for Josh's "Thanks for planning out my whole life" line.

 

I definitely agree the writers have to tread lightly with this storyline for a few years because the alternative is either sad (Maya constantly in unrequited love with Josh) or ick (Maya in requited love with Josh).

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I am so impressed with how much this show is growing. I like the Maya/Josh storyline and liked that they gave Maya a chance to say all the reasons she actually likes him. I think she is starting to realize that she really doesn't know him all that well. I would very much like to see some sort of age-appropriate love interest introduced for Maya, though. Between the Josh stuff and trying to marry Shawn off to her mom, I think Maya is just doing everything she can to be sure she is tied to the Matthews family for life. She doesn't realize, though, that her friendship with Riley is going to be that tether. It would be nice for Maya to see that if she gets a boyfriend other than Josh or if her mom doesn't marry Shawn, that she will still be a part of Riley's family.

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Oh AmandaPanda, that is exactly the story I wish they were telling, the one where Maya realizes she is already a part of the Matthews family and doesn't need Josh or Shawn or anything else to be the link for her. Alas, I don't know that they are going for that but I would love this show forever if it did because I think it's a valuable story to tell. Maya is a girl with very little actual family. It's clear she is desperate to be a part of Riley's family, and who can blame her since the Mathews' are a great family unit. Hell, I wanna be a Matthews. lol

 

I am still holding out hope that Shawn and Katy don't work out but Shawn stays anyway and Maya realizes that he's actually there for her. That he wants to be a father to her even though he doesn't want to be with her mother.

 

With Josh, I like that she had reasons she liked him, but yeah, those reasons screamed "because if I marry him I will become part of your family!!!!!" which is actually interesting. I hope it was done on purpose.

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I don't think we're supposed to see Josh as the bad guy at all. I think we're supposed to see Josh as a decent guy determined to do the right thing. He's been properly appalled at the idea of dating a 14 year old (if a small part of him might be intrigued at the idea of a possible someday). The other guy at the party also reacted exactly as he should have at the idea of coming on to girls in middle school: Ack! and a step back.  I loved how supportive the girls were to Maya, but I agree they probably should have tossed in a "and who knows if you'll even feel this way in 4 years" when they talked about her being 18 and going after Josh. That could have been the reason for Josh's "Thanks for planning out my whole life" line.

 

I definitely agree the writers have to tread lightly with this storyline for a few years because the alternative is either sad (Maya constantly in unrequited love with Josh) or ick (Maya in requited love with Josh).

 

I do love that there were supportive girls. I love seeing supportive girls in media. But everyone was way too flippant about the fact that two 14 year old girls were out at like 10 at night alone on the streets and then on a random college campus. It was too much that the girls were totally in Maya's favour instead of at least one of them being like 'It's fine to be into him, but don't be stupid about it'. Because Maya's desperation, though fairly realistic, is reaching some ridiculous unsafe heights. And I did not feel like Cory or Topanga were angry enough for the situation. I did not feel like Riley and Maya fully understood why what they did was wrong at all. 

 

To me it felt like they're putting Josh in the wrong because no one took Josh's opinion into account. He stands up to leave, they tell him to sit. He tells them she's only 14, they assure Maya that the age difference really means nothing. He tries to speak again, and they actually threaten to have basically all the girls at the school boycott him.

 

It never crossed their minds that Josh may never feel anything for Maya. Just because she turns 18 doesn't magically make her an adult in mentality. And frankly I'd be uncomfortable with him dating her immediately after she turns 18 anyways since it would feel too much like he's really had a thing for her since she was 14, but just waited until she was legal so it'd be more okay. 

 

The whole narrative is just too stacked on Maya's side. The only person saying it's not okay is Josh, but he is silenced as soon as he tries to say anything. 

Edited by FrumiusManxome
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Did I miss him in the class or was Ranger Rick missing from this episode?

I don't think he was there. I didn't realize it during the episode, which probably speaks to how little I see him adding to the group dynamic. He lacks chemistry with everyone. Maybe he would have had chemistry with the tater tot?

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It never crossed their minds that Josh may never feel anything for Maya. Just because she turns 18 doesn't magically make her an adult in mentality.

 

 

Or that he's going to suddenly be into her. I can't stand that idea that if you relentless pursue someone you will wear them down and they will love you. Don't they have a say in it? She is basically railroading both Josh (into liking her) and Shawn (into liking her mom) without a thought about their desires. If I think about it too much it bothers me. I love Maya as a character but this is the one thing about her I don't care for.

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He was missing and Zay was in his seat . I like Lucas well enough, but I have to admit I didn't actually notice his absence the first time I watched.

 

I too want the Tell-Tale Tot to be a recurring character.

Edited by Melgaypet
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Pleasantly surprised with not hating the tot puppet part. Thought I would but it worked fine in the ep. And if occasionally they want to bring it back as a kind of way of getting to hear the characters internal thoughts, I wouldn't mind. Just as long as it wasn't over done.

 

Glad I wasn't the only one who had a problem with how the Josh/Maya story played out in the ep. I liked that while Riley was supportive of Maya expressing herself, she also was willing to question Maya's true feelings. Really as others have pointed out, Maya likes Josh because of how he loves his family and how he is when he is with his family but that still doesn't mean she knows him as a person. I didn't mind the college girls liking Maya for her admitting her feelings but they shouldn't have been encouraging her feelings to continue and giving her hope for Josh's feelings changing. As others have pointed out Josh shouldn't have been made to listen and basically have his feelings be made inconsequential.

 

I think the show has been improving and finding its voice. I do think the show does have a problem with how they seem to be trying to really force its couplings. They seem to be trying to make the next Cory/Topanga without remembering that it took time for them to become the real deal.

 

Also this ep definitely made me wish that Cory was more like Alan. I always felt Alan was such a realistic parent. Alan would have laid into both girls for going to a college party at their age.

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Here's my theory- aside from the Aunt Maya thing, Maya's crush on Josh is there because he's safe. She knows it's not going to happen, so she doesn't have to put herself out there and not get hurt if she went after a guy that she could actually have.

 

But I thought it just went overboard from "cute" to "stage 5 clinger" status.

 

Honestly though, I thought the lesson of the episode SHOULD have been, "Everybody gets a crush on someone they can't have, and it's okay, and you move on." Instead, I feel like the lesson was, "It's okay to browbeat someone into liking you, and plan their future for them with you in it." I liked the girls being supportive but really, them telling Maya that she should wait until she's 18 and he's 21 was just kind of icky.

 

I just want Josh to get a girlfriend, Maya to be okay with it, and get over her little schoolgirl crush.

 

 

I liked that while Riley was supportive of Maya expressing herself, she also was willing to question Maya's true feelings. Really as others have pointed out, Maya likes Josh because of how he loves his family and how he is when he is with his family but that still doesn't mean she knows him as a person.

 

That was probably the most mature I've seen Riley be, and she was dead-on right to ask Maya that.

Edited by methodwriter85
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I wasn't very impressed with this episode.  I laughed at the sorority stuff with Riley, but the tater tot was too over the top for me.  Maya is too young, both physically and emotionally, for Josh.  Her "I don't care" attitude in the beginning was completely transparent which just proved her immaturity....as does following him to the dorm party that HE was looking forward to as a chance to make new friends and screwing that up for him.  I like Maya but I like Josh too and I don't like that HIS college experience was ruined by her childishness.  I did like Auggie this episode and thought his covering for his sister was sweet.  I am glad they have him acting more his age.  I guess I am in the minority, but I missed Lucas this episode.  As soon as Zai spoke up in class, I realized he was in Lucas' seat....and I kept waiting for  throw away line as to where Lucas was. 

 

Glad I am not the only one who wishes Cory was more like Alan.  I cannot fathom any parent being ok with their 14 year old daughter sneaking out in NYC in the middle of the night to go to a college campus.  Yes, Uncle Boing took care of the girls and got them home, but what if they had run into some drunk college guys before they found Josh?  What if they had been mugged or abducted off the street?  I cannot believe, as parents, neither Cory nor Topanga brought these things up.  Alan and Amy would have laid out some harsh life lessons in that situation.  Plus, I can't imagine parents being ok with the "adult" uncle covering for this stupid behavior.

 

I truly love this show so here's hoping the rest of this season holds to the promise the earlier episodes have shown.  :)

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As soon as Zai spoke up in class, I realized he was in Lucas' seat....and I kept waiting for  throw away line as to where Lucas was.

 

 

LOL I'm so observant I didn't even realize Lucas wasn't in class. just assumed he was there and didn't realize Zay was in his spot. It was nice to see someone other than Farkle actually know stuff about actual school work though, so go Zay!

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To me it felt like they're putting Josh in the wrong because no one took Josh's opinion into account. He stands up to leave, they tell him to sit. He tells them she's only 14, they assure Maya that the age difference really means nothing. He tries to speak again, and they actually threaten to have basically all the girls at the school boycott him.

 

 

I didn't feel like anyone put Josh in the wrong for not wanting to be in a relationship with a kid in 8th grade.  I felt like the girls were just trying to get Maya to actually talk to him, get her real feelings out there, and have him hear her, because it would be healthy for her.  Nobody ever gave me the impression that they expected him to start dating her or declare any reciprocal feelings, but just that they wanted to make sure he wasn't just dismissing her, because she had gone to a lot of effort to make this statement to him, and she's a kid.  I got the feeling it was more of a "this girl is going through her first crush, and we want to help her get through this without it being a complete disaster" kind of thing.  Once Josh sat and listened to her, no one was pressuring him to do or say anything.  He was the one who then made the decision to get up and leave so he could walk the girls home. 

 

Yes, they dangled the "when you're here, you'll be 18, he'll be 21, and it won't be such a big deal" carrot in front of her, but there were two angles with that - reminding her that it is a big deal in the here and now, and they likely know from their own experience that it's not realistic to think this girl is still, at 18 in college, going to be hung up on the same guy she's hung up on as a 14 year old 8th grader, so it's not like they expect her to show up on campus her first day of college looking to marry Josh or anything.  In their minds, it's probably relatively safe to remind her that life won't always be like this, and she won't always be an 8th grader who is too young for the relationship she says she wants. 

 

Riley with the college kids was cute.  Both Maya and Josh saying "OK, bring her back," cracked me up.  Oh, and the "you married Topanga, and you're like 20 years older than her."  "We're the same age!!"  "What?!?"  

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On a lighter note, has anyone else found themselves randomly saying "Boom, boom" in the tater tot voice? Just me?

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I want that taters puppet, I'm looking at etsy as we speak. Reminds me of celery poster or Eric doing cartman voice so randoml

 

Random note is anyone else bothered topaganna opening credits? She only has 1 clip from season one, and hasn't had story arch since then. Tired of seeing domestic side of her all the time. Bummer

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While I liked the college girls being supportive, some one still needs to address the inappropriateness of Maya jumping on Josh, stalking Josh and generally disregarding his personal boundaries and feelings.  Maya dislikes it when Farkle does similar things too her but does not see that similarities to what she does with Josh.  It is normal and perfectly acceptable in most case to have a crush on a friends older family member, a family members friend or just about anyone  What is not okay is to continually harass and bother them when it has been made clear that THEY DO NOT LIKE IT.  Telling Maya to get over it would not work, telling a 14 year girl any thing usually does not work. Someone should say, Yes when you are in your 20's and the age thing is not an issue, maybe it will happen.  But you should not miss out on experiences you should have while growing up in the hopes that it will one day happen."  Also someone should be establishing boundaries, encouraging age appropriate dates, and telling her when she is being inappropriate.  I think this could be a wonderful storyline for Topanga and Maya, it would establish a relationship outside of Riley and Cory for both. 

Edited by Aliconehead
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I do agree that I would love to see Topanga and Maya have that kind of story line.  I don't really think, though, that Maya is really bugged by the stuff Farkle does.  She clearly cares about Farkle, considers him one of her closest friends, and, to the two of them, their relationship - he flirts like crazy, she shoots him down - works for them. I get the impression she'd be disappointed if Farkle stopped paying attention to her (which may be, in part, where she got the idea to try showing disinterest to Josh).  

 

As for Josh, I feel like he discourages the overtly "romantic" stuff, but he kind of enjoys Maya's antics in general.  He's pretty much always kind to her, and rather gentle in his reminders that they aren't right for each other, but he also laughs and smiles when she does silly things.  I think the only thing that has really bugged him is that she showed up at the college, because that was an overt attempt to interfere in him establishing age-appropriate relationships.  For example, when she was on his back, I don't think his protests were genuine, but more joking around with her (and, probably, some relief that this was the Maya he's used to dealing with, as contrasted with his previous statement about there being a new maturity to her).  

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Actually I agree.  They've made it darn clear Josh on some level enjoys Maya's attention.

 

And lets face it, inappropriate age or not (and remember that a girl several years older than the character plays her--so we can put the squick meters down a bit--although not TOO far down since she's still under 18), Maya is attractive. On some level, since teenaged boys are all hormones, I'm sure Josh would have to notice, even if she's marked as off-limits in his head for TONS of good reasons.

 

If they were playing this with the two actors REAL ages, 18 and 16, it wouldn't be as alarming (albeit, lets face it, still illegal in some places).  But there's a quiet (probably well justified) line adding just that extra year AND putting one of them in Middle School and one well into High School (Maya being old for her class year and Josh young for his, seemingly--adding yet another grade if not another calendar year).

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A couple of posts have had the word "illegal" in regards to Maya and Josh.  What is illegal about a 14-year-old dating a 17-year-old?  Dating is not the same thing as having sex.

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fernsehen, that is very true. There is nothing illegal about a 14-year-old and a 17-year-old dating. It's a little bit creepy, but it's not illegal. 

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Fair point, about dating rather than having sex. I guess it's he fact that she seems incapable of being friends and is already talking about being married to him and calling him Uncle Boing that makes it feel more sexualized than Riley's attraction to Lucas which seems totally sexless. But yeah, them dating isn't illegal. It would just seem weird for a 17 year old boy who is about to enter college to want to date a kid in middle school. They are just in totally different places in their lives, so I hope the show tones the whole Maya/Josh thing down.

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Maya being in middle school is what brings the ick factor for me.  If she were a high school freshman and Josh a senior, it would still be kind of weird, but the fact that she hasn't even made it to high school whereas he is getting ready for college.....well, I would think it was pretty damn weird if he were interested in dating her.  And yes, their dating would not be illegal, but I would find it very ridiculous if a 17 year old boy was NOT interested in doing things that a barely 14 year old child should NOT be doing during those dates (in the immortal words of Xander Harris - "I am 17.  Looking at linoleum makes me want to have sex").  Josh has been very nice about Maya's crush and he has also been very clear that he isn't interested.  I am STILL pissed that Maya and Riley ruined Josh's party that he was so excited to be going to in order to meet some new friends before he starts college.  Were I him, my brother would have gotten a very irate phone call to pick up his daughter and then the "nice guy" routine of telling Maya I wasn't interested would have gone out the window (away from my new "friends" who were threatening to ruin my dating life if I wasn't nice to this child who is stalking me). 

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I think Josh was the only rational person in this episode. I mean...which college-bound guy would want to date a middle schooler?! I hope the writers will cool it with this story arc because it's getting preposterous.

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First I want to say that I really enjoyed most of this episode, it might have been the funniest episode of the series. That said ... the dorm room conversation really bugged me. The girls threatening to tell everyone that he belonged to Maya was just out of line.

 

The thing that bugged most, however, was the other guy in the room who went from, "Middle school girls? Out out out!" to asking Josh "What's wrong with you!?" once Maya explained her reasons for liking him. As if it suddenly didn't matter that Maya is in middle school because she thinks the way he interacts with his nephew and brother is cute and knows that he's the sort of guy who's not going to let two middle school girls walk home alone in NYC at night.

 

It almost felt like they were saying that Josh is in the wrong because he's hung up on a 3 year age difference, and needs to become "smarter" and realize what an awesome, brave girl Maya is. I was half expecting the scene to conclude with the college kids telling Josh that, even though she's in 8th grade, Maya is special and he's a good guy, so it would be okay to go ahead and date her.

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It almost felt like they were saying that Josh is in the wrong because he's hung up on a 3 year age difference, and needs to become "smarter" and realize what an awesome, brave girl Maya is. I was half expecting the scene to conclude with the college kids telling Josh that, even though she's in 8th grade, Maya is special and he's a good guy, so it would be okay to go ahead and date her.

 

As much as I love this show, I would have had to give it up if they went that way.  The age difference won't matter as much in a few years, but it sure as hell matters now!  I like Maya as a character and I like Josh as a character but if they want a romance between those two, they need to do an age jump or keep this show on the air for 4 years and then have them get together!

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Finally just caught this episode and I loved all the dorm stuff with Riley. I know it was over the top, but the football guys and the Gamma Gamma Nu gals were just the right kind of crazy for me. I really liked how quickly she became a Gamma Gamma girl and how into it she was. 

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I really liked Riley in this episode, and as someone who has been struggling with her character for a long time now; that was a nice surprise. I also feel like the episode sort of telegraphed what the girls' college experiences will be like in the future. Riley's definitely gonna be end up being the preppy, sorority girl who fits in easily whilst Maya will probably have a harder time finding her place. If this show were on ABCF, we'd probably get to see them at college but since Disney shows have a shelf-life of at most five seasons, our journey with the girls will probably end right up until that point. 

 

Also gotta agree with everyone who've said that the age difference debacle between Maya and Josh was handled poorly. While I feel like Josh does enjoy Maya's attentions to a certain degree and might even like her a bit, its pretty clear that he is extremely cognizant of the fact that they're in two very different places in their lives and therefore keeps his distance. Which really should be commended rather than condemned. The show sent a very weird message with the college girls telling Maya that its okay to do stupid things for someone you like. I appreciated that they didn't make fun of her for her crush but they were a little too supportive of what was truly a dumb move on her part. And also Cory and Topanga not freaking out over something like their kid sneaking out to go to a college party was extremely OOC. 

 

Hell, the Cory of BMW would've grounded her for 2 months. He's gotten soft in his old age. 

 

But I will say that the show has certainly found quite the rising star in Sabrina Carpenter. Her speech to Josh was very well acted, she brought something very open and vulnerable to that scene. It was the very definition of rising above the material you're given. 

 

I can see her having an amazing career beyond this show. 

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I do think this season is sooo much better than S1.  I even like this episode for the most part.  Riley has become much better as a character as well. But I do have to agree that the Maya/Josh stuff is a little creepy and I don't entirely understand where the show is going with it.  I agree that down the road a 3 year age difference isn't a big deal.  So if the show was going to fast forward 10 years into the future and have Maya and Josh date, then awesome.  But middle school and about to graduate high school is a big deal and it kind of feels like the show wants us to root for them?  Also yes, the college girls being kind to Maya and not making fun of her was a nice touch.  But the college kids almost trying to make it seem like Josh is an ass for not reciprocating Maya's feelings was way off base.  Also encouraging Maya to hold on to her crush because it may happen in the future.  Nothing Josh did here was remotely in the wrong.

 

I also agree that there was a weird underreaction from Cory and Topanga regarding the girls sneaking off to a college party.  It wasn't even a high school party, but a college party.  Did the body snatchers get Cory?  I thought that was an underreaction for normal parents, let alone one that has been shown to be overprotective.

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In the minority, I like Josh and Maya, there's little sparks of chemistry between the actors. I like it as a silly OTT crush right now that goes nowhere but he's mostly bemused by it. I like how it's setting up story for 2/3 seasons from now if the show is on where Josh may develop feelings for her but she's moved past the crush or something like that. The actors looking similar in age make it less squicky and since BMW always played a bit fast and loose with time (6th grade to college sophomores in 7 seasons), it won't surprise me if Josh has a verrrrrry long freshman year while the girls start high school.

Edited by GildedLily
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I don't mind if they keep the Maya crushing on Josh angle.  It's the making it seem like Josh is in the wrong for his feelings that I don't like.  Then again, I'm not sure anybody cares that much about Josh's feelings.  The only other part of S2 I don't like, and it's a similar thing, is the whole Shawn/Maya's mom deal.  I think there is starting to be this idea that what Maya wants, Maya gets.  If she wants Shawn as a dad by having him hook up with her mom, then it will happen.  Even if the relationship between the two has no spark or reasons for existing outside of Maya.  If Maya wants Josh, then lo and behold people will beat Josh over the head with it until it happens.

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In the minority, I like Josh and Maya, there's the tiniest of sparks of chemistry between the actors. I like it as a silly OTT crush right now that goes nowhere but he's mostly bemused by it. I like how it's setting up story for 2/3 seasons from now if the show is on where Josh may develop feelings for her but she's moved past the crush or something like that. The actors looking similar in age make it less squicky and since BMW always played a bit fast and loose with time (6th grade to college sophomores in 7 seasons), it won't surprise me if Josh has a verrrrrry long freshman year while the girls start high school.

 

I actually think that Sabrina and Uriah have amazing chemistry as well and I honestly thought that when Josh was introduced in HFTH, he was also being brought in as a viable love interest for Maya. They compliment each other very well IMO. Also IIRC, Josh was born onscreen in '99 which would make him 16 now, so there really should only be a 2 year age difference between them. Two years would still be a substantial enough for Josh to think he was too old for her but not so much so to prevent them from actually dating in the near future. 

 

Their scene in First Date on the subway really showcased their chemistry really well. If you paid attention to Josh while Maya was talking about her "dungeon of sadness" you'd see a little spark in his eyes. It was a very cute scene tbh. She was able to make him smile after he just got his heart stomped on.

 

So they definitely have potential. 

 

Lol its also very ironic how there's an actual three year age difference between Rowan and Peyton IRL but their characters are romantically linked on the show whilst there's only a two year age difference between Sabrina and Uriah but their characters aren't allowed to date. 

Edited by stormborn
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