S13.E18: Phillip Mudd, Ian Bremmer, Rick Lazio, Nina Turner, Lewis Black

[GHScorpiosRule]

Intelligence analyst Philip Mudd, Political Scientist Ian Bremmer, Former NY Rep. Rick Lazio and Co-Chair, Ohio Task Force on Community-Police Relations Nina Turner, and Comedian Lewis Black.

[Maherjunkie]

I am salivating at the thought of Duggar talk.

[BooBear]

I thought that was an amazing episode.  Though, the guy at the start that Bill said was part of the problem, Phillip Mudd I think was an Idiot. My gosh. I don't know what his book is about but he struck me as one of those people that just knows nothing but says it loud and somehow get books because of his stupid confidence. But I thought the panel was a rare good one even if they didn't agree with Bill on everything.

[ganesh]

I disagree with the guy seated on the right about a potential unified Arab world aligned against Israel. Sunnis and Shias have been at each others' throats for centuries. Similarly, all those countries could crush IS if they allied together. But Sunnis won't fight Sunnis. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I really enjoyed New Rules last night; especially when Bill was asking WHO is trying to eradicate the Christians. And all the people he brought up. Just made me laugh.

[attica]

Geez, if there are so many 'known vulnerabilities' with the TSA system that explain a 95% fail rate, WHY ARE WE STILL USING IT? Please divert those resources to procedures and protocols that are actually effective and not just Security Theater. But Mudd seemed unwilling to even consider such a thing. Because relieving travelers of an excess ounce of Kaopectate* is a worthy use of staff, equipment, and economic productivity? 

 

I'm a fan of Nina Turner, and I'm glad she's trying to get national 'branding'. She's still pretty new at this kind of thing, though, and it showed. I bet/hope she'll get better at it.

 

I hope that it won't be too much longer that perfect strangers think they get to have a public opinion about the whys whats and wherefores of what's in any transgender person's pants. Why Bill thinks whether or not Jenner has/keep a penis is an issue he needs to grapple with, or be able to properly classify, rather than, you know, none of his damn business is a mystery to me.

 

*a true thing that happened to my mom, who was trying to fly while recovering from digestive issues. 

[ganesh]

I think Bill brought up a good point without realizing it, re: Jenner. There's a difference between gender identity and sexuality. I don't think he was being a jerk about it, a little ignorant, but not mean. It's a good conversation to have, and it seems no one else on the show got that though.

 

I'm shocked that the woman was defending the right to have 19 children. The Duggar wife is basically a brood mare for the husband because the bible. That's them saying that too, not my interpretation. If that's not a glaring example of gender inequality, I don't know what is. 

[iMonrey]

First of all, Philip Mudd defending the TSA workers was like Fox News defending the Duggars. So it's not their fault because the people testing them know their vulnerabilities? Um. . . . why don't the TSA workers know those vulnerabilities if their bosses do? Something seriously wrong here. I think the point Bill was trying to make is that the terrorists are no longer interested in crashing our planes because we made such a quagmire in the middle east they already got exactly what they wanted.

 

Second of all, Nina Turner defending the Duggar's right to have 19 children was equally reprehensible in my book. Bill is right,  they're freaks. That's too many kids.

 

I liked New Rules and I figure maybe Bill thought it was self-explanatory but he could have elaborated on what, exactly, these politicians and pundits mean when they say Christianity is coming close to being criminalized. They feel it is their Christian right and duty to discriminate. And the more laws we pass legalizing gay marriage or making discrimination illegal makes certain Christians think their religion is being criminalized. So in other words, if it's against the law for a baker to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding (the obvious example that keeps getting used), then courts are criminalizing Christian's God-given right to discriminate against gays like the bible says they should, according to them. That's what this is about. We're saying more and more, "you can't discriminate," and Christians are saying "you're attacking my religion." Which just speaks to how ugly their religious beliefs are and what ugly people they are that they feel justified in their discrimination.

[b2H]

And yet the Right are among the same people who criticize Muslim women who want to wear the head scarf. This is persecution - where the individual who wants to demonstrate their religiousness isn't allowed to because it isn't the correct religion.

Have said on more than one occasion: i will believe the persecution when I hear about stonings, about jailing and about official invasions of active church services on Sunday mornings. Until then, it is a fearful projection of the conservative Christian wing of Americans and, believe me, that sells as fantastic red meat to the side of the American people who have forgotten that Jesus said to love and care for ALL his children; not just those that have the right job, attend the right congregation and/or look just like them.

The religious persecution, if it can be called that, is coming from those observers who are witnessing some very UN-Christ like behavior.

So, yes, complainers of religious persecution, please step up with specific, documentable examples of this persecution. Being forced to operate within the rule of law doesn't count.

Edited June 6, 2015 by b2H

[ganesh]

That was one of Bill's better monologues on religion. I attended a catholic confirmation service a coupe of years ago. The sermon was about how 'our values are being assailed'. This was in a small, southern city, with probably 90%+ of the population attending. I mean, give me a break. They've been saying the same version of that for decades. It's just not true. Everyone can go to church literally at any time a given church is open. Religion is woven in to secular society way way way too much. That is in no way what was intended when the constitution was written. Sure, they didn't know about terrorism back then, but they also were very clear that laws should very much not be enacted based on religion.

 

They feel it is their Christian right and duty to discriminate. And the more laws we pass legalizing gay marriage or making discrimination illegal makes certain Christians think their religion is being criminalized. So in other words, if it's against the law for a baker to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding (the obvious example that keeps getting used), then courts are criminalizing Christian's God-given right to discriminate against gays like the bible says they should, according to them.

 

I wish the media would actually press this. Presidential candidates are saying this, and they should be very clear what this means. But they won't do that. 

[Morbs]

The people who complain that liberals discriminate against people who discriminate are also the same people who say Republicans are the true civil rights leaders because Lincoln freed the slaves, in my experience.

 

In my Catholic high school they told us that the Catholic church child molestation scandal was just the new form of the Crusades. 

[BooBear]

I wish the media would actually press this. Presidential candidates are saying this, and they should be very clear what this means. But they won't do that. 

Bill cracked me up when he was noting that MSNBC et al do not talk bad about religion but he does and he will be damned if he lets them get the credit, so I was just a little frustrated that he didn't get to the obvious point.  But the new rules was extremely funny.  I guess I don't mind people having 19 kids if they want to but those Duggar people are freaks and I am tried of people "pretending" like they are just a normal family.  In fact, I think TLC needs to be pulled off cable. Their entire programming is reprehensible: Honey Boo Boo anyone?

[paigow]

In fact, I think TLC needs to be pulled off cable. 

Does the L still stand for Learning?  If they keep putting crap like this on the air, can the FCC sanction them for misrepresentation?

[ruby24]

Hillary's idea for automatic voter registration is fantastic. How could anyone object to that? And how has no Democrat suggested it before?

[ganesh]

Having 19 kids is irresponsible, selfish, and abusive. 

 

Bill made the joke about being fruitful was for when there were only 8 people on earth, but he is correct in pointing out the context of when and why that was written. I've said it before a million times. Religious people don't know anything about religion. 

[Victor the Crab]

Is Bill still whinny about President Obama not recognizing his million dollar campaign donation he believes was a difference maker? You being an atheist isn't the reason the President doesn't want to come on your show, Bill. It's because you're an obnoxious, hate filled douchebag who's not as smart as you like to portray yourself to the public. You and Fox News have a lot in common.

[IndianPaintbrush]

The Mudd interview was weird.  How anyone can defend a 95% failure rate is beyond me.  Hire more workers, raise their salaries, give them better training, whatever you have to do.  But this is the job and that is unacceptable.

 

I feel like Bill focused too much on how the Duggars should not have had 19 kids.  It's irresponsible, but it's their right. Just like it's my right to have an abortion, although I know that's not a statement they would ever agree with.  I'm a lot more horrified by their patriarchal and repressive attitudes towards sexuality, which obviously contributed a lot to their current situation.

[paigow]

Bill should do more European tours if it improves his Real Time episodes....

[ganesh]

I feel like Bill focused too much on how the Duggars should not have had 19 kids.  It's irresponsible, but it's their right. Just like it's my right to have an abortion, although I know that's not a statement they would ever agree with.  I'm a lot more horrified by their patriarchal and repressive attitudes towards sexuality, which obviously contributed a lot to their current situation.

 

You're kind of making the point. Is it really their right when Mr. Duggar is essentially denying gender equality to his wife and children? Did the wife have a say in when she wanted to have kids or how many? 

 

It's practically guaranteed that one of the kids is gay, and a chance that another might be trans. I can't even imagine the mental stress that they are suffering or for how long. I really question the definition of a 'right to have as many kids as you want.' There's no doctor worth their license that isn't going to say having that many kids is going to seriously affect the life and health of the mother. Clearly, her rights aren't being taken into account. It might not be illegal to have 19 children, but it's highly unethical at the least. Especially in that family. What if one of the girls is really good at math? They're going to encourage her and let her go to college? Or are they going to make sure she marries at 18 and pumps out more babies? 

Edited June 7, 2015 by ganesh

[alias1]

Does the L still stand for Learning?  If they keep putting crap like this on the air, can the FCC sanction them for misrepresentation?

They are now The Looney Channel.

[alias1]

Having 19 kids is irresponsible, selfish, and abusive. 

 

Bill made the joke about being fruitful was for when there were only 8 people on earth, but he is correct in pointing out the context of when and why that was written. I've said it before a million times. Religious people don't know anything about religion. 

I couldn't agree more.  I think it constitutes spousal abuse, at least (and using religion to justify it).  

 

I thought Bill's comments at the end were some of the best he's done in a long time.  I'm glad he didn't muddy it up with the gay rights issue about conservatives not wanting to bake wedding cakes, or whatever.  Pure and simply, there is no war on religion.  The people making those statements are just playing to their martyr base.  It's as ridiculous as Bill O'Reilly's war on Christmas every year.

Edited June 7, 2015 by SierraMist

[HelenBaby]

Is Bill still whinny about President Obama not recognizing his million dollar campaign donation he believes was a difference maker? You being an atheist isn't the reason the President doesn't want to come on your show, Bill. It's because you're an obnoxious, hate filled douchebag who's not as smart as you like to portray yourself to the public. You and Fox News have a lot in common.

I sincerely don't understand how you took that to mean anything other than a joke. You're entitled to your opinion about Maher, but I truly believe it was a joke. Obama is a sitting president who has been on other talk shows, but this one is a show he would skip until he's out of office. It would not be a good idea to do it now and I'm sure Bill knows that.

[b2H]

I hope to see Obama do this show in 2017.

[alias1]

I hope to see Obama do this show in 2017.

I can't see him ever being part of the panel, but he could be the first interview guest.  I don't know why he would have to wait until 2016 or even 2017.  It isn't like he has to campaign to be re-elected.  The only reason (I think) he doesn't do this show is because Bill would ask him if he's really as religious as he pretends to be (according to Bill). 

 

I'd like to see Hillary as the first interview guest.  

[Victor the Crab]

I sincerely don't understand how you took that to mean anything other than a joke. You're entitled to your opinion about Maher, but I truly believe it was a joke. Obama is a sitting president who has been on other talk shows, but this one is a show he would skip until he's out of office. It would not be a good idea to do it now and I'm sure Bill knows that.

 

This isn't the first time Bill complained about Obama not recognizing his campaign contribution. And he wasn't jokey about it then, so why would anybody think he was joking now? Bill's smug opinion about himself is well known so I don't see how he deserves the benefit of the doubt here.

[HelenBaby]

We'll agree to disagree, okay? Not trying to upset you.

[opus]

I hope to see Obama do this show in 2017.

Has it been renewed thru 2017?

[IndianPaintbrush]

You're kind of making the point. Is it really their right when Mr. Duggar is essentially denying gender equality to his wife and children? Did the wife have a say in when she wanted to have kids or how many? 

The wife absolutely had a say.  If you've ever seen the show, you'll know that Michelle Duggar prides herself on the fact that she pumped out 19 kids.  I would even say she sees having babies as a competition.  Michelle wasn't raised as a fundamentalist either. She used birth control for several years until she had a miscarriage and decided that birth control was evil.

 

My point is that raising any number of kids in such a sexist, repressive environment isn't healthy, and that's what Bill should have focused on.

Edited June 7, 2015 by IndianPaintbrush

[ruby24]

I bet you anything Obama will definitely come on Bill's show after he's out of office. Actually, you're right, there's no political reason to avoid it now really, but I guess Bill's image is just too controversial (although I don't know- is he really so controversial after all these years? I think everybody knows where he stands).

[b2H]

Has it been renewed thru 2017?

No renewal yet, but I don't see the show going anywhere any time soon.

Edited June 7, 2015 by b2H

[ganesh]

I'd bet Obama might come on the show post-presidency to promote a book or something. 

 

Bill always talks about his million dollar gift as a means to deride the current money in politics influence imo. 

 

The wife absolutely had a say.  If you've ever seen the show, you'll know that Michelle Duggar prides herself on the fact that she pumped out 19 kids.

 

No, I wouldn't watch such reprehensible garbage. And I hardly think a reality tv show is presenting anything remotely representing reality. 

 

I think it constitutes spousal abuse, at least (and using religion to justify it).

 

So do I. I have a hard time believing someone willingly wants to pump out a football team. 

Edited June 7, 2015 by ganesh

[Morbs]

I could be wrong, but I figured Obama has never been on because the show is kinda off the cultural radar/zeitgeist.

[BooBear]

I could be wrong, but I figured Obama has never been on because the show is kinda off the cultural radar/zeitgeist.

 

Yeh hardly anyone I know even knows it is on. It isn't the "Daily Show" that's for sure. I can see him not coming on.

[ruby24]

BIll has all kinds of political figures on though, and has been doing this kind of political comedy on TV for 20 years- it can't be because Obama's just not aware of him or the show. I think he just figures Bill's audience and the kind of people who watch him are already very politically aware and on the blue side 100%, so he doesn't really gain anything by reaching out to that crowd. And maybe he doesn't want to answer questions about religion either, who knows.

 

I still think he may come on after he's out of office though.

[ganesh]

Jimmy Carter has been on this show. Several congressmen, Bernie Sanders, Barney Frank, both very notable recently. Just off the top of my head. The show might not be a cultural touchstone, but I'd say the guests have been rather notable. Former governors; chairs of the major parties. My congressional representative was on the show this year. 

 

Obama is Obama and he'd probably be impeached if he came on the show as a sitting president. Because everything is his fault and the fabric of the universe is going to be shredded because his lovely wife thought it was a good idea to try to get school kids to eat healthier. He's not going to sit down with an atheist pothead and trade a few jokes. 

[attica]

He's not going to sit down with an atheist pothead and trade a few jokes.

 

What about Nick Galifinakis? (True, I don't know about NG's religious faith status.)

[Hanahope]

The wife absolutely had a say.  If you've ever seen the show, you'll know that Michelle Duggar prides herself on the fact that she pumped out 19 kids.

 

And kidnap victims often end up defending their kidnappers, and even helping them commit crimes.

 

I can see Obama coming on Bill's show after the election.  I don't think he'll do it before then because BM is a bit more on the fringe and such appearance could potentially have an affect on the Dem's chances of keeping the presidency.  But I definitely think he'll do it afterwards.   I could be wrong, Obama's been on a bit of a 'fuck it' spree lately.

 

They feel it is their Christian right and duty to discriminate. And the more laws we pass legalizing gay marriage or making discrimination illegal makes certain Christians think their religion is being criminalized. So in other words, if it's against the law for a baker to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding (the obvious example that keeps getting used), then courts are criminalizing Christian's God-given right to discriminate against gays like the bible says they should, according to them.

 

I'd like to know where in the Bible God tells them to discriminate against certain people (and not others, since I don't see Christians refusing to bake wedding cakes for fornicators or adulterers).  I seem to recall its God's job to judge "sinners" and Jesus Christ, in fact, told people to love their neighbor, kindof the exact opposite of discriminate. 

[Maherjunkie]

Did anyone see the daughters talk?  They were like "Oh this wasn't that bad, he was a child himself."

[GHScorpiosRule]

Has it been renewed thru 2017?

 

 

No renewal yet, but I don't see the show going anywhere any time soon.

 

 

I was sure that it had been renewed, but couldn't remember, but I found this in the media thread--it's been renewed through season 15:

 

 

 

Renewed for Seasons 14 and 15 -- Yes !!!!

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/01/08/real-time-with-bill-maher-renewed-for-seasons-14-15-by-hbo/348035/

 

 

So, it's still possible for Obama to appear on the show after he leaves office.

Edited June 8, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[attica]

I suspect Obama's not appearing on RT has more to do with him not needing to reach Bill's audience. He's more likely to find recruitable eyeballs elsewhere, if that's what he needs. It's like preaching to the choir, and Bill's audience is engaged enough to seek out his appearances elsewhere. Plus, he doesn't seem to really dig doing this kind of thing to begin with, so he's not going to go out of his way just to talk to Bill. 

[elzin]

Obama being on isn't that surprising. He'd most certainly have to be the first guest, the one Bill does solo time with. So it wouldn't be anything special as a viewer, other than Maher might ask nontraditional things.  Plus the show is done live, and a lot of shows now are taped later. It's hard to get the Pres to do something that's so time-sensitive. I don't think it's shunning, just not something that logistically makes sense for such a small draw of viewers.