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Race & Ethnicity on TV

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3 hours ago, possibilities said:

Josh Chan (played by Vincent Rodriguez III) on Crazy Ex Girlfriend is a hunky dudebro who's had two white love interests, including the show's main character who was obsessed with him for 2 seasons. The character is straight, but right now he's working as a go go dancer in a gay bar.

I love when stereotypes start to fall.

There is also White Josh. That's my favorite script flip on CXG. The Asian Josh is regular Josh and the White guy is the deviation.

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3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

There is also White Josh. That's my favorite script flip on CXG. The Asian Josh is regular Josh and the White guy is the deviation.

I love that, too. CXG is awesome at script-flipping. I don't think I've ever seen a show pack as many tropes into a narrative, and then subvert them.

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7 hours ago, possibilities said:

Josh Chan (played by Vincent Rodriguez III) on Crazy Ex Girlfriend is a hunky dudebro who's had two white love interests, including the show's main character who was obsessed with him for 2 seasons. The character is straight, but right now he's working as a go go dancer in a gay bar.

I love when stereotypes start to fall.

I was amused that he carried a Chinese instead of a much more common Hispanic name among Filipinos . Probably to emphasize that he is Asian

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With Black Lightning premiering this week, a reminder of previous superhero shows with Black leads, since I've already seen it referred to as the first, which it isn't:

  • M.A.N.T.I.S. - (1994) starring Carl Lumbly. You've probably never heard of it because it only had one season, and it wasn't a comic adaptation. Aired on Fox.
  • Spawn - (1997) - Animated, 3 short seasons on HBO.
  • Static Shock - (2000) - Animated, and ran for 4 seasons on WB.

  • Blade: The Series - (2006) - Also one season, on cable network Spike.

And Honorable Mention for Gargoyles (1994), animated, if we stretch some definitions. Any others?

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5 minutes ago, Dee said:

Why would you need to stretch for Gargoyles? Elisa was the female lead of the show.

Not about the lead part, but I thought some might quibble about counting it as a 'superhero show', or even the  blackness of Elisa, since both she and the voice actress are bi-racial.

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6 minutes ago, Dee said:

Why would you need to stretch for Gargoyles? Elisa was the female lead of the show.

I suspect @Trini was thinking about Goliath voiced by Keith David and not Elisa Maza who is Black and Native American (Hopi).

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So Lifetime is premiering a biopic on the life of Griselda Blanco, a Columbian drug lord. The person playing Blanco?  Catherine Zeta Jones.

Cocaine-Godmother.jpg

Is that a "spray tan" I see?

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8 hours ago, xaxat said:

So Lifetime is premiering a biopic on the life of Griselda Blanco, a Columbian drug lord. The person playing Blanco?  Catherine Zeta Jones.

Cocaine-Godmother.jpg

Is that a "spray tan" I see?

Just because the woman played a Latina in Zorro does not make her one. She shouldn't be allowed to bootstrap her way into this role. For the love of Eli Wallach, the woman is Welsh.

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5 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Just because the woman played a Latina in Zorro does not make her one. She shouldn't be allowed to bootstrap her way into this role. For the love of Eli Wallach, the woman is Welsh.

Well, in Zorro she was Spanish, not Latin American.  Not an excuse in this case, though.

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42 minutes ago, possibilities said:

And God forbid they should make a feature about anyone from Colombia who's not a drug lord. Maybe there were no self-respecting Latinas willing to take the role.

I wonder about that.

But this does raise a good point.  Who should and shouldn’t be considered for a role?  Some people thought a Black British actor and actress shouldn’t have played Martin Luther King and Coretta King (as was done in the movie Selma).  Some thought a Black British actor should not have been considered for the lead in Get Out.

I think they are all thought provoking arguments.

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7 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Just because the woman played a Latina in Zorro does not make her one. She shouldn't be allowed to bootstrap her way into this role. For the love of Eli Wallach, the woman is Welsh.

I remember hearing her tell a story about her first day on the Zorro set that Anthony Hopkins made a crack about a "little Welsh girl coming down here to play a Mexican."

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56 minutes ago, Lugal said:

Anthony Hopkins made a crack about a "little Welsh girl coming down here to play a Mexican."

...says the Welsh guy who played an African American passing as white in The Human Stain.

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2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I wonder about that.

But this does raise a good point.  Who should and shouldn’t be considered for a role?  Some people thought a Black British actor and actress shouldn’t have played Martin Luther King and Coretta King (as was done in the movie Selma).  Some thought a Black British actor should not have been considered for the lead in Get Out.

I think they are all thought provoking arguments.

I remember when Jennifer Lopez was cast as Selena, for the movie, about the late murdered singer. There were people who complained that she was not Mexican and that there are cultural differences between Mexico and Puerto Rico. Hollywood is too narrow-minded to even know that. I understood that argument, but, Jennifer did a great job in the part and Selena's family were very happy with her performance. It was very emotional for them, to see her dressed up and act like Selena. 

Edited by Apprentice79
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1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

I remember when Jennifer Lopez was cast as Selena, for the movie, about the late murdered singer. There were people who complained that she was not Mexican and that there are cultural differences between Mexico and Puerto Rico. Hollywood is too narrow-minded to even know that. I understood that argument, but, Jennifer did a great job in the part and Selena's family were very happy with her performance. It was very emotional for them, to see her dressed up and act like Selena. 

It went back further than that to Freddie Prinze of Chico And The Man.  Even without the internet.

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On 1/14/2018 at 8:49 PM, Trini said:

With Black Lightning premiering this week, a reminder of previous superhero shows with Black leads, since I've already seen it referred to as the first, which it isn't:

  • M.A.N.T.I.S. - (1994) starring Carl Lumbly. You've probably never heard of it because it only had one season, and it wasn't a comic adaptation. Aired on Fox.
  • Spawn - (1997) - Animated, 3 short seasons on HBO.
  • Static Shock - (2000) - Animated, and ran for 4 seasons on WB.

  • Blade: The Series - (2006) - Also one season, on cable network Spike.

And Honorable Mention for Gargoyles (1994), animated, if we stretch some definitions. Any others?

And duh, Luke Cage (2016), although it's on a non-traditional platform.

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Black Lightning was refreshing and the characters were unapologetically black unlike the rest of the black characters in the DCTVU 

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On 1/16/2018 at 8:15 PM, In2You said:

Black Lightning was refreshing and the characters were unapologetically black unlike the rest of the black characters in the DCTVU 

Amaya (and her relatives) on Legends of Tomorrow are "unapologetically black".

Thanks to @HunterHunted for the correction

Edited by jhlipton · Reason: Corrected the name.
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On 1/7/2018 at 7:21 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

a male Asian character who has a romantic relationship with a white female character

Victor Tan (played by David Lim) of SWAT now has a white girlfriend (a blonde) although she's off-screen for now.  On 9-1-1,  Howie 'Chimney' Han ( played by Kenneth Choi) has a white girlfriend, but she's only listed for 2 episodes.  It seems things are getting better....

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On 1/17/2018 at 0:14 AM, jhlipton said:

Anara (and her relatives) on Legends of Tomorrow are "unapologetically black".

I think you meant Amaya. Regardless, Legends of Tomorrow and the Berlantiverse has done more to flesh out Vixen than DC has done in a long while. They've given Vixen a grandmother and a sister (who are unapologetically black), a matrilineal heritage of power, and expanded the larger Vixen mythology. Some of the best things to happen to Vixen have been on TV, whether it be Legends of Tomorrow or Justice League Unlimited or Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

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1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

Victor Tan (played by David Lim) of SWAT now has a white girlfriend (a blonde) although she's off-screen for now.  On 9-1-1,  Howie 'Chimney' Han ( played by Kenneth Choi) has a white girlfriend, but she's only listed for 2 episodes.  It seems things are getting better....

There is also Eddie on Fresh Off The Boat. However the characters were so young they probably were not having sex so no love making scene like Officer Tan had.  Considering for how long Star Trek patted itself on the back for William Shatner's lips touching Nichelle Nichols  when aliens mind raped their characters and forced the kiss  perhaps having the actors actually touch is still a thing needed as it is with gay relationships?

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5 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I think you meant Amaya. Regardless, Legends of Tomorrow and the Berlantiverse has done more to flesh out Vixen than DC has done in a long while. They've given Vixen a grandmother and a sister (who are unapologetically black), a matrilineal heritage of power, and expanded the larger Vixen mythology. Some of the best things to happen to Vixen have been on TV, whether it be Legends of Tomorrow or Justice League Unlimited or Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

Isn't Vixen played by a biracial actress?

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33 minutes ago, In2You said:

Isn't Vixen played by a biracial actress?

Both versions of Vixen are played by biracial actresses, but Kuasa who is the sister of present day Vixen and granddaughter of past Vixen is a brown-skinned British Nigerian actress. And mother of present day Vixen is played by Toks Olagundoye. Kuasa has flipped between an antagonist and an ally. All of these characters are African.

Edited by HunterHunted
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12 hours ago, Dee said:

While I don’t think Mo’Nique’s popularity is close to Amy Schumer’s, based on reports of Amy Schumer and Dave Chappelle receiving 8 figures from Netflix for their comedy specials, Mo’Nique would be receiving 5% of what they were paid—at the most. She certainly deserves more than that. 

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33 minutes ago, topanga said:

While I don’t think Mo’Nique’s popularity is close to Amy Schumer’s, based on reports of Amy Schumer and Dave Chappelle receiving 8 figures from Netflix for their comedy specials, Mo’Nique would be receiving 5% of what they were paid—at the most. She certainly deserves more than that. 

Before Mo'Nique went off on Oprah, before she decided not to play the Hollywood game of movie promoting for Precious, she was well known at least in the black community as one of the four queens of comedy. That's how I know her, she's a queen of comedy. So in the world of black comedy and black female comedians, she was it.  The difference between Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock and even Kevin Hart is that those men have sort of crossover into the white folk territory when it comes to their audiences, particularly Chappelle and Rock and they have very diverse audiences  and have most definitely had more success in tv and film when it comes to their projects. So yeah, they deserve more money.  But Mo'Nique had definitely made it as far as black female comedians go.  I wouldn't say she deserves the same money as the guys I've listed or Schumer and NOT because I think Schumer is a better comedian, no she isn't, at least not for my taste. Schumer has her moments, but please, she's not all that. But Schumer has had more, um, consistent success in her tv and film projects and she is more currently visible, so yeah, she should get more. 

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What about Wanda Sykes?  I would think Wanda has some crossover appeal.  I'm surprised they offered her less than Mo'Nique because I think she has a higher profile. 

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30 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

What about Wanda Sykes?  I would think Wanda has some crossover appeal.  I'm surprised they offered her less than Mo'Nique because I think she has a higher profile. 

Yeah, Wanda does have crossover appeal, coincidentally she use to write for Chris Rock's weekly show on HBO back in the day. I've seen her audiences and the one's I've seen look majority white. But the question is how big are the arena's shes performing in? How much money is she pulling in for her shows. If she's not pulling in the big bucks for her current work, then Netflix can justify paying her less. But given her work behind the scenes in the industry, lower than 500k seem way out of line, that's too low. 

Edited by Keepitmoving
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Wanda Sykes see3ms to come and go, largely because she seems to play the same character (in my opinion).  I haven't seen any of her shows (live or recorded) so I can't speak to that.

3 hours ago, topanga said:

While I don’t think Mo’Nique’s popularity is close to Amy Schumer’s, based on reports of Amy Schumer and Dave Chappelle receiving 8 figures from Netflix for their comedy specials, Mo’Nique would be receiving 5% of what they were paid—at the most. She certainly deserves more than that. 

Mos' def.

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On 1/14/2018 at 10:26 PM, xaxat said:

So Lifetime is premiering a biopic on the life of Griselda Blanco, a Columbian drug lord. The person playing Blanco?  Catherine Zeta Jones.

Cocaine-Godmother.jpg

Is that a "spray tan" I see?

She did an interview about Cocaine Godmother. I haven't watched it yet (it's over 40 minutes long) so I'll be interested to see if that gets addressed at all in the next few weeks:

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10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

She did an interview about Cocaine Godmother. I haven't watched it yet (it's over 40 minutes long) so I'll be interested to see if that gets addressed at all in the next few weeks:

 

She was on The View just last week and they just brushed over the topic, even Sunny Hostin didn't go there.

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23 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Yeah, Wanda does have crossover appeal, coincidentally she use to write for Chris Rock's weekly show on HBO back in the day. I've seen her audiences and the one's I've seen look majority white. But the question is how big are the arena's shes performing in? How much money is she pulling in for her shows. If she's not pulling in the big bucks for her current work, then Netflix can justify paying her less. But given her work behind the scenes in the industry, lower than 500k seem way out of line, that's too low. 

I agree Wanda's audiences are majority white.   I've seen a couple of her specials and she's pretty funny.  I think she consistently sells out concert halls when she tours.   Haven't see Monique's stand up since Queens of Comedy, to know if she's still funny.   Deray Davis supposedly got $5 million for his Netflix special, and I don't think he has much cross over appeal.  I wouldn't even place him on the top tier in the Black comedy world.   So if he really got $5 million,  Wanda and Monique both deserve at least that much.

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52 minutes ago, After7Only said:

Deray Davis supposedly got $5 million for his Netflix special, and I don't think he has much cross over appeal.  I wouldn't even place him on the top tier in the Black comedy world.   So if he really got $5 million,  Wanda and Monique both deserve at least that much.

I've never heard of Deray Davis, so, yeah, Sykes, and even Mo'nique have a bigger profile (Q Factor) thAN HE DOES.

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Ursula K. Le Guin passed away today. While she will best be remembered as a great writer, let us not forget how she savagely criticized the whitewashing of the TV production of her Earthsea books.

Quote

My color scheme was conscious and deliberate from the start. I didn't see why everybody in science fiction had to be a honky named Bob or Joe or Bill. I didn't see why everybody in heroic fantasy had to be white (and why all the leading women had "violet eyes"). It didn't even make sense. Whites are a minority on Earth now—why wouldn't they still be either a minority, or just swallowed up in the larger colored gene pool, in the future?. . .

As an anthropologist's daughter, I am intensely conscious of the risk of cultural or ethnic imperialism—a white writer speaking for nonwhite people, co-opting their voice, an act of extreme arrogance. In a totally invented fantasy world, or in a far-future science fiction setting, in the rainbow world we can imagine, this risk is mitigated. That's the beauty of science fiction and fantasy—freedom of invention.

But with all freedom comes responsibility. Which is something these filmmakers seem not to understand.

 

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5 hours ago, After7Only said:

I agree Wanda's audiences are majority white.   I've seen a couple of her specials and she's pretty funny.  I think she consistently sells out concert halls when she tours.   Haven't see Monique's stand up since Queens of Comedy, to know if she's still funny.   Deray Davis supposedly got $5 million for his Netflix special, and I don't think he has much cross over appeal.  I wouldn't even place him on the top tier in the Black comedy world.   So if he really got $5 million,  Wanda and Monique both deserve at least that much.

I've read that Deray Davis said that the $5 million was a joke and he didn't really get that much. It was mentioned in another topic here in the forums, but I can't remember where exactly.

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5 hours ago, xaxat said:

Ursula K. Le Guin passed away today. While she will best be remembered as a great writer, let us not forget how she savagely criticized the whitewashing of the TV production of her Earthsea books.

One of my favorite writers.  I liked to say that she wrote anthropological science fiction -- she created a land and its people and the stories evolved from there.

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I don't know what the going rate for Comedians are for specials. I think Seinfeld, Chapelle, Rock and Amy are outliers.  DeeRay did not get 5 million dollars, he was lying.  I think Monique has a point about black women not being featured on stand up specials on Netflix. It is painfully obvious to me that she has no idea how to negotiate a deal. You don't get paid more by calling for a boycott. She could've let  her people let it slip how little she was being offered and tried for more or moved on to greener pastures. If I'm HBO or Showtime I wouldn't deal with her. If negotiations fall through you are going to trash me and call for a boycott, nope.

People are forgetting Monique trashed Oprah, Lee Daniels and Tyler Perry. I think Daniels was just trying to tell her the truth on how she was being perceived in Hollywood and she didn't want to hear it. Monique managed to kill her career all by herself.  Knowing your worth doesn't always mean shortchanging yourself it also means don't over estimate your worth.

Edited by Sparger Springs
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On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 1:34 PM, Silver Raven said:

Whoopi Goldberg on The View this morning challenged Netflix to offer Tiffany Hadish a show and pay her what they're offering Amy Schumer.

I don't think Hadish needs a show on Netflix, if this article is any indication.  Good for her!

With this and NNedi Okorafor's Who Fears Death coming soon, HBO is looking like the place to be!

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People are forgetting Monique trashed Oprah, Lee Daniels and Tyler Perry. I think Daniels was just trying to tell her the truth on how she was being perceived in Hollywood and she didn't want to hear it. Monique managed to kill her career all by herself.  Knowing your worth doesn't always mean shortchanging yourself it also means don't over estimate your worth.

I didn't forget it, I mentioned her trashing Oprah at the beginning of my post and failing to play the Hollywood game of going to promote the movie Precious. Gabourey Sidibe had less than Monique in terms of her own money and resources, and nothing to wear as Gabbie has mentioned in her autobiography which is awesome by the way, and she took her ass wherever TPTB asked her to go and guess what? She stays employed, Lee looks out for her. You gotta play the game. Monique, is crazy, because at that point she wasn't shit in Hollywood in terms of being mainstream and she was first a comedian, that's where she was buttering her bread. So if you want to enter into a new field you have to pay your dues. And true, not everyone pays their dues, but a lot of folks have to so...

She went off on Oprah about something that I do believe Oprah pulled on Mo. I do believe Oprah and her show pulled some shit on Mo, that they thought would of course be good for ratings, but might help Mo and her family out. But it was as much for ratings and you don't play with someone's sexual abuse. So the story goes, Monique suffered sexual abuse at the hands of her brother. The Oprah show decided to bring on Mo's parents who she doesn't talk to because I figure they took the brother's side and didn't believe Mo. Oprah of all damn people should know what it's like for your parents, your mother not to believe your claims of being sexual abused by a family member, since that is exactly what her mother did to her. I remember she had her mother on the damn show to talk about what went down in her family and asking her mother in front of millions did she regret not believing her. So for her and that show to pull that with Mo was awful. That being said, Mo said that she had confronted Oprah about this at a party that Oprah invited her to with a bunch of other black actresses in the industry and she, Mo, said that Oprah had apologized, but that she claimed she didn't know her staff was bringing on the parents. Wait no, she didn't know that Mo didn't know that her parents were going to be on the show. Yeah Oprah, bullshit, I love Oprah, but no one is a saint to me, even Mother Teresa, LOL. I'm sorry, we are all human and all exhibited unattractive behaviors from time to time or very often. Oprah pulled this shit on Mo for ratings and gave a half ass apology with that I didn't know nonsense. And that as far as I'm concerned, is at the root of Mo's anger toward Oprah and she has let it spill over into her behaving unprofessionally  when it came to promoting that movie Precious.

And even more importantly, her husband gets all my side eye, she needs to get rid of his ass. 

Edited by Keepitmoving
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HBO is in dire need of a hit with Game Of Thrones ending in the next couple of years.

Netflix, Hulu, Amazon and many other basic cable networks have surpassed it as producers of popular mainstream high quality content over the last decade.

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Giant Misfit

Keep your comments to race and ethnicity as they relate to TELEVISION SHOWS.  If you would like to discuss social issues without TV context, please visit the Social Justice topic in Everything Else. 

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