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One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

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Yes it's true that he did help out especially the gilmore girls. I did like Luke the best though when he was Jess' guardian, that relationship was great to watch. But i can't get over how obnoxious his behaviour is, particularly towards those who don't deserve it (customers, cyclists, townsfolk) every time he has à spat with lorelai.  The writers did turn him into à bumpkin as soon as E&R were in sight. It probably didn't help much because Scott Pattersons performance wasn't as nuanced, it always was à bit oot. 

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1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Lawd, those writers really hated that character in season 6.  It was downright sad.

And for every "brutish" thing he did, he did something equally sweet.  Helping Lorelai break the bells, honoring his dad, taking in Jess, agreeing to meet the Gilmores despite knowing how they'd treat him and being unfailingly polite to them, Thanksgiving dinner for the girlw, and many more including the "pull the sausage" bit.

I would not say "for every."  His being a dick on a daily basis far outpaced his sweet moments.  God, when he yelled at that old woman about his boat...sheesh.

 

And some people (Luke is like this) do a lot of things out of obligation to duty more than bc they really want to.

 

While that is not a bad trait - honoring your perceived  obligations - it's not exactly the same as doing something from the heart.  Which is probably why he bitched and moaned about the funeral, Jess, his sister, almost every event with the Gilmores, etc.

2 hours ago, FictionLover said:

You are right on all accounts. He also storms off like a child when he’s mad. But yet, I like him with a total understanding why some don’t. I guess it’s his softness towards the Gilmore Girls that gets me. Saying no to things but he does it anyway, especially if one of them is hurt; “you can pull link sausage out of me”.

Luke and Jess get a lot of credit from fans for what basically passes as normal human decency.  It's weird.  Especially since most of that "wonderful" behavior is directed at the people they want to sleep with.

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2 hours ago, stan4 said:

I would not say "for every."  His being a dick on a daily basis far outpaced his sweet moments.  God, when he yelled at that old woman about his boat...sheesh.

 

And some people (Luke is like this) do a lot of things out of obligation to duty more than bc they really want to.

 

While that is not a bad trait - honoring your perceived  obligations - it's not exactly the same as doing something from the heart.  Which is probably why he bitched and moaned about the funeral, Jess, his sister, almost every event with the Gilmores, etc.

Luke and Jess get a lot of credit from fans for what basically passes as normal human decency.  It's weird.  Especially since most of that "wonderful" behavior is directed at the people they want to sleep with.

I don't mind Luke's gruff what did annoy me was how he treated Lorelai in the episode where she accidentally goes out with the younger guy. Okay, so Lorelai didn't realize he was that young. But Luke's whole attitude towards her? He gets mad at her, he warns small children away from her and just won't let up. Then we have Sookie explain why. Because he likes her and wants to out with her. While I understand having a crush on someone or maybe it being love and wanting to go out with them. He did not ask her out. He never asked her out! And yet because he wants to its totally okay to treat her like crap for going out on a date. Lorelai can date who ever she wants. Its not up to him and he really has no right to be mad and treat her like crap when Lorelai didn't do anything wrong.  As much as I like Sookie I don't really like the "see its right there". Maybe it Sookie, but that doesn't give him the right to be jerk when she goes out with someone else. Lorelai didn't do anything wrong. He never asked her out. He loves her so much and has all these feelings but he won't ask her out. What is Lorelai suppose to do? Tippy toe around him? Not go out with anyone because Luke likes her? Is she suppose to just wait and put her life on hold until Luke decides to finally ask her out. I do like Luke. But that's crap. Lorelai ends up having to talk to Luke and assure him that he means something to her. Luke doesn't have to apologize for how he treated her and behaved. And realize that was wrong of him.

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15 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't mind Luke's gruff what did annoy me was how he treated Lorelai in the episode where she accidentally goes out with the younger guy. Okay, so Lorelai didn't realize he was that young. But Luke's whole attitude towards her? He gets mad at her, he warns small children away from her and just won't let up. Then we have Sookie explain why. Because he likes her and wants to out with her. While I understand having a crush on someone or maybe it being love and wanting to go out with them. He did not ask her out. He never asked her out! And yet because he wants to its totally okay to treat her like crap for going out on a date. Lorelai can date who ever she wants. Its not up to him and he really has no right to be mad and treat her like crap when Lorelai didn't do anything wrong.  As much as I like Sookie I don't really like the "see its right there". Maybe it Sookie, but that doesn't give him the right to be jerk when she goes out with someone else. Lorelai didn't do anything wrong. He never asked her out. He loves her so much and has all these feelings but he won't ask her out. What is Lorelai suppose to do? Tippy toe around him? Not go out with anyone because Luke likes her? Is she suppose to just wait and put her life on hold until Luke decides to finally ask her out. I do like Luke. But that's crap. Lorelai ends up having to talk to Luke and assure him that he means something to her. Luke doesn't have to apologize for how he treated her and behaved. And realize that was wrong of him.

And he told her it was none of her business who he dated in  “Like Mother, Like Daughter”.

Edited by FictionLover
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On 10/5/2018 at 12:47 PM, FictionLover said:

And he told her it was none of her business who he dated in  “Like Mother, Like Daughter”.

That's what I was thinking of! She got insecure and jealous first when a Chilton mom asked if Luke was single, and then when she spotted them talking. She later asked him not to date anyone from the Chilton/Hartford area of her life, and he reacted in anger. She picked a fight with him, yelling about him giving bad directions, in reaction to his anger.

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On 10/5/2018 at 12:32 PM, andromeda331 said:

I don't mind Luke's gruff what did annoy me was how he treated Lorelai in the episode where she accidentally goes out with the younger guy. Okay, so Lorelai didn't realize he was that young. But Luke's whole attitude towards her? He gets mad at her, he warns small children away from her and just won't let up. Then we have Sookie explain why. Because he likes her and wants to out with her. While I understand having a crush on someone or maybe it being love and wanting to go out with them. He did not ask her out. He never asked her out! And yet because he wants to its totally okay to treat her like crap for going out on a date. Lorelai can date who ever she wants. Its not up to him and he really has no right to be mad and treat her like crap when Lorelai didn't do anything wrong.  As much as I like Sookie I don't really like the "see its right there". Maybe it Sookie, but that doesn't give him the right to be jerk when she goes out with someone else. Lorelai didn't do anything wrong. He never asked her out. He loves her so much and has all these feelings but he won't ask her out. What is Lorelai suppose to do? Tippy toe around him? Not go out with anyone because Luke likes her? Is she suppose to just wait and put her life on hold until Luke decides to finally ask her out. I do like Luke. But that's crap. Lorelai ends up having to talk to Luke and assure him that he means something to her. Luke doesn't have to apologize for how he treated her and behaved. And realize that was wrong of him.

I'm an admitted LL shipper, but they both had some terrible moments when they were just friends that really crossed the line, and this is absolutely one of Luke's. The guy wasn't even that young. He was probably 25-26, maybe even older. And Lor was  probably around my age - 33. It's not the world's biggest age gap, and it's kind of moot anyway since Lorelai went into it knowing she wasn't going to date him seriously. Nothing wrong with that.  But even if she had, they were both adults. Luke acted like the dude was 14. It was really inappropriate. Especially the line about a height bar like at amusement parks? Luke, STFU. 

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47 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

I'm an admitted LL shipper, but they both had some terrible moments when they were just friends that really crossed the line, and this is absolutely one of Luke's. The guy wasn't even that young. He was probably 25-26, maybe even older. And Lor was  probably around my age - 33. It's not the world's biggest age gap, and it's kind of moot anyway since Lorelai went into it knowing she wasn't going to date him seriously. Nothing wrong with that.  But even if she had, they were both adults. Luke acted like the dude was 14. It was really inappropriate. Especially the line about a height bar like at amusement parks? Luke, STFU. 

They really did. I'm an LL shipper too but Luke crossed the line her with how he reacted to Lorelai going on a date. No he wasn't that young but also its not up to him. Its up to Lorelai who went out with him and he probably was around the 25 age rang so not that young. Also like you pointed out she really wasn't taking it serious. They went on one date and that was it. Luke acted like a child. Lorelai crossed the line too when she told him she didn't want him dating the Chilton mom. Its not up to her who he dates anymore then its up to him. Having a crush on each other, maybe being in love with each other is no excuse that. I always wanted someone to point that out to both of them. Luke can date who every he wants. Lorelai can date who ever she wants and neither should have to put up with crap from each other. Because Luke never asked Lorelai out, Lorelai never asked Luke out.  Both should have ended up apologizing for their behavior. Also ask Luke what is Lorelai suppose to do? Not date and wait around putting her life on hold until Luke finally decides to ask her out? Lorelai being asked the same question. 

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8 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

They really did. I'm an LL shipper too but Luke crossed the line her with how he reacted to Lorelai going on a date. No he wasn't that young but also its not up to him. Its up to Lorelai who went out with him and he probably was around the 25 age rang so not that young. Also like you pointed out she really wasn't taking it serious. They went on one date and that was it. Luke acted like a child. Lorelai crossed the line too when she told him she didn't want him dating the Chilton mom. Its not up to her who he dates anymore then its up to him. Having a crush on each other, maybe being in love with each other is no excuse that. I always wanted someone to point that out to both of them. Luke can date who every he wants. Lorelai can date who ever she wants and neither should have to put up with crap from each other. Because Luke never asked Lorelai out, Lorelai never asked Luke out.  Both should have ended up apologizing for their behavior. Also ask Luke what is Lorelai suppose to do? Not date and wait around putting her life on hold until Luke finally decides to ask her out? Lorelai being asked the same question. 

Yes, exactly! It wasn't up to Luke who Lorelai dated, and it wasn't any of Lorelai's business who Luke dated. Lorelai crossed boundaries with the Chilton mom, but also when he moved in with Nicole. Ahhhh, shut up Lorelai! Cringe. That's my big cringe Lorelai moment when it comes to Luke. I also thought the scene in the first season finale with Luke-Max and the toolbox was another cringe Luke moment, especially since Lorelai had really been encouraging him to work things out with Rachel a few episodes prior! But even in the scene with Max, he's not being outwardly cruel like he was with the young guy. 

Like you, I wish someone had just been like "yo, either shit or get off the pot because boundaries!" And yes, apologies, too. 

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2 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

Yes, exactly! It wasn't up to Luke who Lorelai dated, and it wasn't any of Lorelai's business who Luke dated. Lorelai crossed boundaries with the Chilton mom, but also when he moved in with Nicole. Ahhhh, shut up Lorelai! Cringe. That's my big cringe Lorelai moment when it comes to Luke. I also thought the scene in the first season finale with Luke-Max and the toolbox was another cringe Luke moment, especially since Lorelai had really been encouraging him to work things out with Rachel a few episodes prior! But even in the scene with Max, he's not being outwardly cruel like he was with the young guy. 

Like you, I wish someone had just been like "yo, either shit or get off the pot because boundaries!" And yes, apologies, too. 

God yes! As bad as the Chilton mom was what came with Nicole was so much worse. I can't believe Luke never told her to shut up. She went on and on and on about Nicole and him. Continued after they got married which yes was stupid on Luke and Nicole's part but again still not up to Lorelai. Yes, Luke tried at times especially his comment about he didn't remember being pronounced husband, and wife and Lorelai. Which was so true. She should been shut down or knocked off at that point. And yes apologizing. Then after bitching for months about being married then suddenly switching gears when Luke's finally getting the divorce. That he should think about it. She really was out of line and should had to knock that off and apologize. It was none of her business who Luke dated. Just as it was none of his business who she dated. I hated that scene between Luke and Max it was horrible and Max ends up arguing with Lorelai about Luke and not believing her when she was being truthful she wasn't involved with Luke and Luke wasn't the person she recently got involved with. But he doesn't believe her then when Lorelai admits to sleeping with Rory's dad gets all uncomfortable. Dude, you brought it up, you started the argument and wouldn't let up until Lorelai told you who it was. But now you know suddenly acting like you didn't. Its hard to see what Lorelai saw in Max in that moment then he follows up that childish argument by proposing marriage. Well, that's really mature Max. I like that Lorelai didn't say yes but honestly I still can't see why she would after that scene or remained with him. 

I loved Lorelai encouraging Luke with Rachel. I don't like Rachel asking Lorelai to put a good word in. But I love that she did. Yes, Lorelai showed signs of not wanting to or being uncomfortable. But she did so because she really believed Rachel was who Luke wanted. It came off like she wanted Luke to be happy. I really wish they had gone that route when ever Luke or Lorelai ended up dating someone else then both acting horrible to each other. Its really hard to see why Luke would forgive and let go Lorelai's behavior with Nicole. Why he would remain friends with her instead of seriously telling her to knock it off or break off the friendship. I know he gets mad at her after their fight when Lorelai flips out after learning Luke and Nicole are seeing each other again and putting off the marriage. But it really should have been more of that. Or why Lorelai would want to remain friends or their friendship wouldn't have cooled after his behavior when she went on a date.  Neither one looks good and neither one ever apologizes for it. 

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14 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

God yes! As bad as the Chilton mom was what came with Nicole was so much worse. I can't believe Luke never told her to shut up. She went on and on and on about Nicole and him. Continued after they got married which yes was stupid on Luke and Nicole's part but again still not up to Lorelai. Yes, Luke tried at times especially his comment about he didn't remember being pronounced husband, and wife and Lorelai. Which was so true. She should been shut down or knocked off at that point. And yes apologizing. Then after bitching for months about being married then suddenly switching gears when Luke's finally getting the divorce. That he should think about it. She really was out of line and should had to knock that off and apologize. It was none of her business who Luke dated. Just as it was none of his business who she dated. I hated that scene between Luke and Max it was horrible and Max ends up arguing with Lorelai about Luke and not believing her when she was being truthful she wasn't involved with Luke and Luke wasn't the person she recently got involved with. But he doesn't believe her then when Lorelai admits to sleeping with Rory's dad gets all uncomfortable. Dude, you brought it up, you started the argument and wouldn't let up until Lorelai told you who it was. But now you know suddenly acting like you didn't. Its hard to see what Lorelai saw in Max in that moment then he follows up that childish argument by proposing marriage. Well, that's really mature Max. I like that Lorelai didn't say yes but honestly I still can't see why she would after that scene or remained with him. 

I loved Lorelai encouraging Luke with Rachel. I don't like Rachel asking Lorelai to put a good word in. But I love that she did. Yes, Lorelai showed signs of not wanting to or being uncomfortable. But she did so because she really believed Rachel was who Luke wanted. It came off like she wanted Luke to be happy. I really wish they had gone that route when ever Luke or Lorelai ended up dating someone else then both acting horrible to each other. Its really hard to see why Luke would forgive and let go Lorelai's behavior with Nicole. Why he would remain friends with her instead of seriously telling her to knock it off or break off the friendship. I know he gets mad at her after their fight when Lorelai flips out after learning Luke and Nicole are seeing each other again and putting off the marriage. But it really should have been more of that. Or why Lorelai would want to remain friends or their friendship wouldn't have cooled after his behavior when she went on a date.  Neither one looks good and neither one ever apologizes for it. 

Yeah, the whole Nicole storyline was just a mess in general, but Lorelai's reaction was OTT. Part of it was the Palladino Inconsistent Writing rearing its ugly head. Luke's been in two prior serious (assuming Anna was kind of serious) relationships pre-Nicole, but somehow doesn't know not to talk about another woman on a first date? Sigh. Not that it affected Lorelai. I think she would have been jealous regardless, but it was definitely different from Rachel who attempted to befriend Lorelai vs Nicole who (again, well within her rights after Luke spent their first date babbling about her!) was more standoffish. Maybe I'm wrong and it did affect Lorelai because knowing that Nicole didn't like her put her on edge and I think she reacted so wild because she had this 'omg, what if Nicole manages to turn Luke against me?' way of thinking whereas with Rachel, it didn't seem like she would 'take' Luke away from Lorelai? I don't know if that makes sense haha. Regardless of why, it was still appalling and I can't watch that episode with the bells. If I were Luke, I would have reevaluated my friendship with Lorelai for sure. Likewise, if I were Lorelai, the bullying over her young date would have given me major major pause. 

 

I agree that I was sad they didn't continue to go the route they had with Lorelai and Rachel and just letting each other be happy. It was an uncomfortable situation to be put in, but Lorelai handles it well. She's also rightfully wtf when Luke keeps staying at her house (I almost forgot about the breaking in. God these two really had boundary issues!) avoiding Rachel. Which is why the dichotomy between Lorelai being encouraging with Rachel and Luke being territorial with Max is pretty damn jarring. He was so creepy in that scene. Long and short of it, Lorelai and Luke had some really ugly moments as friends when they should have apologized and didn't.

 

Oh, Max. He's another UO. I never liked him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on board with how Lorelai handled the ending of the engagement, but Max was really pushy in the beginning of their relationship. She was giving him valid reasons why they shouldn't date and he's brushing them off like eh, no big deal. We like each other. EYEROLL. Again, I reiterate that Lorelai didn't handle things well with the engagement and then calling it off. Honestly, they were incompatible. I think Lorelai had this vision of who she wanted to be with Max and I think Max had a very different idea of who Lorelai was when the fact of the matter is who they truly were was never going to mesh. 

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40 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

Yeah, the whole Nicole storyline was just a mess in general, but Lorelai's reaction was OTT. Part of it was the Palladino Inconsistent Writing rearing its ugly head. Luke's been in two prior serious (assuming Anna was kind of serious) relationships pre-Nicole, but somehow doesn't know not to talk about another woman on a first date? Sigh. Not that it affected Lorelai. I think she would have been jealous regardless, but it was definitely different from Rachel who attempted to befriend Lorelai vs Nicole who (again, well within her rights after Luke spent their first date babbling about her!) was more standoffish. Maybe I'm wrong and it did affect Lorelai because knowing that Nicole didn't like her put her on edge and I think she reacted so wild because she had this 'omg, what if Nicole manages to turn Luke against me?' way of thinking whereas with Rachel, it didn't seem like she would 'take' Luke away from Lorelai? I don't know if that makes sense haha. Regardless of why, it was still appalling and I can't watch that episode with the bells. If I were Luke, I would have reevaluated my friendship with Lorelai for sure. Likewise, if I were Lorelai, the bullying over her young date would have given me major major pause. 

That could be why Lorelai flipped out so much. With Rachel, Luke had no interest in leaving Stars Hollow while Nicole was different she got him to change the menu.  Which yes is his diner he can do what he wants and it might make good business sense to add a couple more salads. He broke his rules with Nicole about cellphones. Nicole didn't live in Stars Hollow and was unlikely to move. In fact she finds out Luke did move to another county. That might mean he might end up moving away completely. Closing the diner and living town. But her behavior was still over the top and horrible. I always fast forward Lorelai's flipping out in the Bells and other moments about Nicole or the Chilton Mom. Luke's crappy behavior about the younger guy. 

 

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I agree that I was sad they didn't continue to go the route they had with Lorelai and Rachel and just letting each other be happy. It was an uncomfortable situation to be put in, but Lorelai handles it well. She's also rightfully wtf when Luke keeps staying at her house (I almost forgot about the breaking in. God these two really had boundary issues!) avoiding Rachel. Which is why the dichotomy between Lorelai being encouraging with Rachel and Luke being territorial with Max is pretty damn jarring. He was so creepy in that scene. Long and short of it, Lorelai and Luke had some really ugly moments as friends when they should have apologized and didn't.

 

It was such a great way that Lorelai handled it. She got along with Rachel and really seemed to like her. Talking to Luke abut Rachel, helping him pick out a birthday present she would like and clothes to wear to dinner. Talking to Luke when he broken into her house to fix things (which yes was creepy). I wish they had kept that with when they both were dating other people. Being supportive of each other and really wanting each other to be happy even if it means not with them.  Its so much better then watching Luke and Lorelai treat each other like crap for dating someone else.  

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Oh, Max. He's another UO. I never liked him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on board with how Lorelai handled the ending of the engagement, but Max was really pushy in the beginning of their relationship. She was giving him valid reasons why they shouldn't date and he's brushing them off like eh, no big deal. We like each other. EYEROLL. Again, I reiterate that Lorelai didn't handle things well with the engagement and then calling it off. Honestly, they were incompatible. I think Lorelai had this vision of who she wanted to be with Max and I think Max had a very different idea of who Lorelai was when the fact of the matter is who they truly were was never going to mesh

. I think the therapist called it in season six when she said that Max was the first time Lorelai considered marriage. Before then marriage was always a problem. It was what her parents wanted to "fix" the mistake of getting pregnant when Lorelai rightly realized her and Christopher getting married would be a disaster. It was never about love but fixing a mistake. But now for the first time she met someone she liked more then just a hook up. I didn't like Max either because he was so pushy when she had as you pointed out valid reasons for not wanting to date. He kept brushing them off and acting like it was no big deal UNTIL it did become a big deal. Lorelai made a mistake by suddenly not seeing Max and breaking things off without breaking things off and kissing him at the school. I'm not saying she's didn't. That was crappy of her even thought it did come from a place of fear when she realized how attached Rory was getting to Max. But the thing that ticked me off him blowing off all her concerns until the blow up at school when he did get in trouble with the headmaster (which he should have dating a student's parent is a big deal and for good reasons) he decides to break off the relationship because HE couldn't handle it anymore. I mean, what? So when everything Lorelai worried about does come to pass he can't handle it and breaks up with her. I hated him then and hated they got back together. Getting into the pissing match with Luke and then starting the argument with Lorelai only made me hate him more. Also, that's not a reason to propose to Lorelai. Also, regarding that argument he started. He won't let up about Lorelai being with Luke. He doesn't like it when Lorelai tells him she slept with Christopher. But Max also slept with someone else when they broke up too. Lorelai was hurt but didn't have the same reaction he did at learning Lorelai had been with someone while they broke up and he just had to know. Why was he so on her when he did the same thing, except unlike Lorelai it sounds like dated who ever that woman was?

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I'm annoyed that every male character on this show was only nice to R and L bc they were related to them or wanted in their pants.

That includes Chris and Luke who pretty much were into Rory mostly as a means to get to Lorelai.

 

But we are supposed to like these guys?

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3 hours ago, stan4 said:

I'm annoyed that every male character on this show was only nice to R and L bc they were related to them or wanted in their pants.

That includes Chris and Luke who pretty much were into Rory mostly as a means to get to Lorelai.

 

But we are supposed to like these guys?

Luke wasn’t into Rory to get with Lorelai. They had their own separate relationship.

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4 minutes ago, elang4 said:

Luke wasn’t into Rory to get with Lorelai. They had their own separate relationship.

Jackson also had a cute relationship with Rory. And he wasn't trying to get into her pants, her mother's pants, or related to her. 

I also enjoyed Rory and Doyle's relationship. 

Lorelai and Jackson were friends too. Lorelai had great banter with Tom. 

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On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 5:48 PM, JaggedLilPill said:

Oh, Max. He's another UO. I never liked him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on board with how Lorelai handled the ending of the engagement, but Max was really pushy in the beginning of their relationship. She was giving him valid reasons why they shouldn't date and he's brushing them off like eh, no big deal. We like each other. EYEROLL. Again, I reiterate that Lorelai didn't handle things well with the engagement and then calling it off. Honestly, they were incompatible. I think Lorelai had this vision of who she wanted to be with Max and I think Max had a very different idea of who Lorelai was when the fact of the matter is who they truly were was never going to mesh. 

I did feel bad for Rory, though. As wrong as Max and Lorelai were for each other, Max and Rory would have made the first stepfather/stepdaughter.

 

3 hours ago, stan4 said:

I'm annoyed that every male character on this show was only nice to R and L bc they were related to them or wanted in their pants.

That includes Chris and Luke who pretty much were into Rory mostly as a means to get to Lorelai.

I don't think that's true at all.  If Luke was being nice to them just because he wanted in Lorelei's pants, he was sure patient.  I think he was nice to them, because beyond his crush or whatever, he generally likes them.  I don't know if I would call him "being nice" but Taylor has a decided soft spot for Rory (besides the time he accused her of shoplifting) and he most definitely does not want in either's pants.  Jackson and Doyle are involved with Sookie and Paris and are very nice to the girls.  And while Chris isn't father of the year, I'm sure he doesn't only do what he does with/for Rory just to get to Lorelai. But, then again, he's related to her, but you did included him separately, so there is that.

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1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

Jackson also had a cute relationship with Rory. And he wasn't trying to get into her pants, her mother's pants, or related to her. 

I also enjoyed Rory and Doyle's relationship. 

Lorelai and Jackson were friends too. Lorelai had great banter with Tom. 

Aw yeah I love Jackson’s relationship with Rory as well. And Doyle’s! ?

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1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I'm annoyed that every male character on this show was only nice to R and L bc they were related to them or wanted in their pants.

 

As much as I hated Logan, I do have to admit that he was nice to Rory long before he ever showed any romantic interest in her. Also, Jaimie - Paris's ex - never had any interest in Rory. Then there's Michel which some could debate about whether or not he was actually "nice" to them, I personally think they were much meaner to him than he ever was to them, but he cared about them with no romantic interest on his part. He wanted to be included in the Dragonfly, he was happy to see Rory when she returned to visit in that one episode - and they were even surprised that he showed he had missed her (which goes along with my UO that they treated him poorly for many years without a real reason). Then, there is all of the various members of Lane's band. Zack tried to flirt with Lorelai the one time when he first met her, but other than that, there was nothing to say that he was actually interested in Lorelai or Rory. 

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1 minute ago, MatildaMoody said:

As much as I hated Logan, I do have to admit that he was nice to Rory long before he ever showed any romantic interest in her. Also, Jaimie - Paris's ex - never had any interest in Rory. Then there's Michel which some could debate about whether or not he was actually "nice" to them, I personally think they were much meaner to him than he ever was to them, but he cared about them with no romantic interest on his part. He wanted to be included in the Dragonfly, he was happy to see Rory when she returned to visit in that one episode - and they were even surprised that he showed he had missed her (which goes along with my UO that they treated him poorly for many years without a real reason). Then, there is all of the various members of Lane's band. Zack tried to flirt with Lorelai the one time when he first met her, but other than that, there was nothing to say that he was actually interested in Lorelai or Rory. 

Kirk also.  He asked Lorelai to marry him that one time, but he was nice to her before and after that, and I'm not even sure why he askedher, other than random Kirkness.  Pretty much everybody was nice to them on this show at one point or another, male or female, and not all the males "wanted to get in their pants."  They're the main characters, so of course they are going to have love interests. 

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9 hours ago, elang4 said:

Luke wasn’t into Rory to get with Lorelai. They had their own separate relationship.

Luke: Here is your birthday surprise...er, where's your mom?

 

Agree about Jackson.

Doyle's presence and "friendship" was entirely circumstantial.

 

Michel was gay.

Zach, etc, were not their friends.  Just people they encountered.

Edited by stan4
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RORY: (at ladies) Oh, excuse me. (at Luke) Hey, little tip: We have beer here. LUKE: Oh, the magic words. I was just heading over to the bar. RORY: Have you tried a rory yet? LUKE: Yes, I have. Not my kind of drink. RORY: Yeah, mine, either. LUKE: Lorelai will be glad to hear it. So, you two haven't talked yet. RORY: Nope, not yet. LUKE: Well, it was nice of you to invite her here. It means a lot. RORY: I'm glad she came. I'm glad you both came. LUKE: Oh, uh, here. I've got something for you. (looks in his pockets, takes out a jewellery gift box and hands it over to her) Birthday present. RORY: Really? LUKE: Yeah, I brought it just in case your mother didn't bring one, but she did. It's the one on top of your present mountain over there. But since I already had it in my pocket, I just figured...(Rory opens it and looks at it touched) RORY: Luke. LUKE: It was my mother's. Liz can't wear it 'cause her neck's too fat, but your neck looks, you know, not fat. It was sitting around in my drawer, so I thought, "hey, give it to Rory". You know you're lucky 'cause Caesar's birthday is next month and I know he likes pearls, so... RORY: (chuckles a bit) Thank you. LUKE: You're welcome. (they hug. A lady - Tweeny - from the group Rory was previously talking to walks over to them) TWEENY: I saw a jewellery box and I couldn't help myself. What did you get? (Rory shows off her gift) Oh, it's fantastic. RORY: It's from Luke, my stepfather-to-be. (Luke is pleasantly taken aback)

Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=6438

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18 minutes ago, stan4 said:

Luke: Here is your birthday surprise...er, where's your mom?

Huh?

In addition to @Crs97's post above, in Rory's Birthday Parties, Luke did the coffee cake and balloons when Rory was there alone with Lane.  It wasn't until Jess came to town that he even found out Lorelai knew about it.

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4 hours ago, stan4 said:

Luke: Here is your birthday surprise...er, where's your mom?

 

Agree about Jackson.

Doyle's presence and "friendship" was entirely circumstantial.

 

Michel was gay.

Zach, etc, were not their friends.  Just people they encountered.

When did he ever say that???

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If I had known there was a place where brilliant, passionate fans who have watched Gilmore Girls as much as I have engage in such insightful discussions about the show, I would have started spending every waking minute on this site years ago and been an even less productive adult than I already am! I don't think any of my opinions are new since such a diverse range of perspectives have already been expressed here, but I'm excited to add my own unpopular views.

This is still my favorite show. I agree that aspects of it are problematic and frustrating, but I also agree with the people who said that their objective critiques of it don't interfere with their personal enjoyment of it.

My love for Luke and Lorelai is obsessive and eternal, and it will endure no matter what the Palladinos ever try to do to them. It's a shame my insurance doesn't cover treatment for this disease!

I really liked the revival. As I wrote that, I realized the more accurate sentiment is that I really liked the parts of the revival that didn't feature Rory.

I'd rather Rory didn't end up with either Jess or Logan.

I agree with people who would rather Logan have been featured for a few episodes in season 5 rather than becoming such a big part of the series and of Rory's life.

I will go to my grave maintaining that Lorelai is still a good woman and a good mother in spite of her flaws.

People here mentioned that Luke's character got worse every season. I understand that, though for me Rory is the character who got noticeably and progressively worse. I really loved her in season 1. I still really liked her in season 2, season 3 and parts of season 4. By the end of season 5 I genuinely disliked her, and I spent the revival cringing every time she was on screen. 

It seems at least a few other people here feel this way, but in many ways the first season is still my favorite. It's got a lot of my favorite java junkie scenes, it's the one season I truly love Rory, and it's such a cozy, charming and cheerful season of television.

This one has been discussed so often that I think we can declare it as more popular than unpopular, but add me to the growing list of fans who never saw Rory as a journalist. You know who would have been a better journalist? Curious, persistent, assertive, engaging and energetic Lorelai. I'm not positive I could see her as a reporter either, but more so than her daughter, which leads to a question about whether part of why that was always "Rory's" dream was because it was a secret ambition of Lorelai's that she couldn't fulfill when she got pregnant at a young age. I will save this theory for my terrible attempts at fanfiction!

I've watched the show about ten times and am yet to find the Life and Death Brigade charming and entertaining for a single minute.

I love Edward Hermann with all my heart (may he R.I.P.), but in many respects I think Richard is worse than Emily.

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Sorry, I forgot one! I don't hate Dean. I even like him during most of season 1, and in the imaginary battle of the Gilmores' first season boyfriends, definitely preferred Dean over Max. One of the weirdest aspects of the show for me is Dean being retconned as a clueless hick to unfavorably contrast with Jess. [Dean having been initially introduced as a kind of "cool", more independent guy who did like to read and who hailed from that secluded small town known as...Chicago.] Not that Dean would ever win awards for his personality, but he really was a lot better initially. Even during Dean's terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad season 4 and 5 days, I wanted him off the show by then but still always had characters I liked even less. Liz. TJ. Max. Logan. Kirk when he appears for more than a minute at a time. Christopher other than one time in season 2. Anna. The entire Life and Death Brigade. Sometimes Zach.

Edited by coffeecoffeecoffee
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45 minutes ago, coffeecoffeecoffee said:

terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad

Hee, I use that all of the time.  Poor Alexander!

Totally agree about Dean.  Horrible character assassination by ASP.

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17 hours ago, coffeecoffeecoffee said:

Sorry, I forgot one! I don't hate Dean. I even like him during most of season 1, and in the imaginary battle of the Gilmores' first season boyfriends, definitely preferred Dean over Max. One of the weirdest aspects of the show for me is Dean being retconned as a clueless hick to unfavorably contrast with Jess. [Dean having been initially introduced as a kind of "cool", more independent guy who did like to read and who hailed from that secluded small town known as...Chicago.] Not that Dean would ever win awards for his personality, but he really was a lot better initially. Even during Dean's terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad season 4 and 5 days, I wanted him off the show by then but still always had characters I liked even less. Liz. TJ. Max. Logan. Kirk when he appears for more than a minute at a time. Christopher other than one time in season 2. Anna. The entire Life and Death Brigade. Sometimes Zach.

I don't hate Dean until season four with the affair. I liked him in season one and felt sorry for him in season two. I kept wishing he would be break up with Rory and move on. I really wish they didn't mess up their scene in the last episode of season three when Rory shows him the catalog and tells him to pick out something for him and Lindsay as a wedding present. It was such a nice scene she was going off to college and so was he and getting married. I don't really think Jess or Logan was the one for Rory either. Although I don't really know who would be.  

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6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I really wish they didn't mess up their scene in the last episode of season three when Rory shows him the catalog and tells him to pick out something for him and Lindsay as a wedding present. It was such a nice scene she was going off to college and so was he and getting married.

I SO wish that had been Dean's last real scene on the show.  (Or even the last scene until the Revival, which is pretty much the only time post S3 I liked anything having to do with Dean.)  I probably wouldn't hate him nearly as much as I do, if that had been the end of his time on the show.

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I've come to realize that my favorite relationship on this show is the friendship between Lorelai and Lane.  It's just lovely to watch them.  Lorelai has Lane's back pretty much the entire series (I can't think of any examples where she doesn't but I don't rewatch every single episode) and Lane loves her for it.  They could have presented Lorelai just being nice to her daughter's best friend but they take it just a bit further which works out so well.  One of my favorite little moments between them is when Lane comes running up to them after she's returned home from her summer in Korea.  Lorelai's "welcome home, Sweetie" is said with as much love as anything she's said to Rory and her smile as Lane recounts the fun she had shows that she's genuinely happy that Lane's trip went well.  When Lane asks Rory to be the Lorelai Gilmore to her twins, that's one of the most earned moments of the series.  That Rory failed doesn't take away from the sentiment and how important Lorelai and Lane have been to each other over the years and how much they love each other.  The lack of Lorelai/Lane moments in the revival was my biggest problem with it.

Which brings me to another UO: I loved how the revival handled Rory.  Don't misunderstand, I don't like Rory and she behaved horribly almost the entire time, but this was the first time in a looooooong time that her horribleness was acknowledged rather than glossed over.  During the series when she was an ass the Ps tended to try and get us to look the other way and would even go so far as to blame her bad behavior and decisions on another party.  But the revival didn't do that.  The closest it came was the running joke about everyone forgetting her boyfriend but that was it.  They made it clear that she was fully aware that Logan was engaged (and showing no indication that he wasn't going to marry her) and was having an affair with him anyway.  They could have had her be a wildly successful writer of books and articles who was constantly turning down lucrative offers for many different things.  Instead she was coasting on the success of one article, was passively waiting for that interview to get scheduled, put in no effort to learn about that website because she thought she was above working there, and generally acted more like a trust fund baby playing at working than someone who actually wanted to be a writer/journalist.  It's an extension of the criticisms we had of her during the series but, this time, the show was aware and in agreement.  Yes, she ended up deciding to write Gilmore Girls: The Book, but even that I think was a nod to what she'd become.  She couldn't cut it as a journalist and the only idea she could come up with for a book was to base it on herself.  Maybe it was just in response to the years of criticisms or maybe the revival writing team had the epiphany on their own, but watching the show finally be aware of the Rory Gilmore the rest of us were watching was refreshing.

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This probably sounds weird but watching the early seasons its really weird to me that neither Lane or Rory show any interest in getting a car. Jess saves up money to buy his car I think Dean did the same for his motorcycle. Rory gets a car when Dean builds her one (which I still hope that he takes those skills to one of the many car companies or starts his own restoring cars or something that takes skills) and then later when her grandparents buy her one. But she never once shows any interest in getting or wanting a car. She either rides the bus or drives the jeep. Lane doesn't either. I'm sure Mrs. Kim wouldn't allow it but she too never actually expresses any interest in getting a car. Its just weird to me. I grew up with couldn't wait to get a car. Getting jobs to save for cars because then it was your car. You didn't have to wait to borrow your parents' car or a siblings car or beg a sibling for a ride. Before I turned sixteen it sucked I had to beg my parents or my brother to take me places which usually took weeks they usually had plans, lives or didn't want to drive all the way out to the bookstore. Plus none of my friends lived nearby. Its just so the way it was growing up. We all couldn't wait to get our own cars. It didn't matter what they looked like. You had your own wheels and go where you wanted. You could go hang out at the book store or clothing store for four hours if you wanted. Go places when you wanted to go and not on anyone else's schedule. Its so weird to me to watch Rory and Lane never once show any interest in wanting or needing a car. Rory never needed the car when Lorelai did? She never wanted to drive to Hartford book stores and spend hours there? Lane never wanted her own car to sneak off to music stores like the one in Hartford she mention to Rory when she asks her to stop by the music store to buy CDs for her? 

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I think much of what we see in GG is either ASP's own experiences or what she perceives to be true. When Rory first got into Chilton, Emily told Lorelai they were going to buy Rory a car. Lorelai emphatically said no. I think having a car at 16 was not important to ASP, so we don't see it in the 16 year old women in the show.

Edited by chessiegal
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3 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

I think much of what we see in GG is either ASP's own experiences or what she perceives to be true. When Rory first got into Chilton, Emily told Lorelai they were going to buy Rory a car. Lorelai emphatically said no. I think having a car at 16 was not important to ASP, so we don't see it in the 16 year olds in the show.

That was probably it.

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I’m somewhat like Rory in personality, quiet, introverted, not that adventurous, and I didn’t want a car either at 16. It just never appealed to me, maybe Rory was similar.

 

For Lane, I think having car car when she was so out of the range of possibility as a teen living under Mrs. Kim’s roof, she didn’t even bother to dream or discuss it. 

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1 minute ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I’m somewhat like Rory in personality, quiet, introverted, not that adventurous, and I didn’t want a car either at 16. It just never appealed to me, maybe Rory was similar.

I also had no interest in a car as a teenager, mostly because I wanted to save my money for college. If I had to commute a half hour (?) to school, though, I would have.  On the other hand, Rory used that time to read.  I get bus sick, so that would have influenced my desire, obviously.

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Everything in Stars Hollow was in walking distance, and being an only child gives one easier access to a car and/or transportation.

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On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 2:45 PM, HeySandyStrange said:

I’m somewhat like Rory in personality, quiet, introverted, not that adventurous, and I didn’t want a car either at 16. It just never appealed to me, maybe Rory was similar.

 

For Lane, I think having car car when she was so out of the range of possibility as a teen living under Mrs. Kim’s roof, she didn’t even bother to dream or discuss it. 

 

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 2:48 PM, Katy M said:

I also had no interest in a car as a teenager, mostly because I wanted to save my money for college. If I had to commute a half hour (?) to school, though, I would have.  On the other hand, Rory used that time to read.  I get bus sick, so that would have influenced my desire, obviously.

 

3 hours ago, shron17 said:

Everything in Stars Hollow was in walking distance, and being an only child gives one easier access to a car and/or transportation.

It was probably a mixture of all these. For Lane it probably was so far out of the possibility. For Rory she never showed an interest or had much need. Everything was in walking distance or she used the jeep or took the bus. Where I live everything is so spread out that walking wasn't an option so we all saved up money to get a car. My friends and I all lived so far away from each other it was a pain to try to convince a parent or sibling to drive over to each other's houses. That went away when the first one of us got a car.  

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On 11/20/2018 at 9:59 PM, scarynikki12 said:

She couldn't cut it as a journalist and the only idea she could come up with for a book was to base it on herself. 

She didn't even come up with that idea. Jess did. It bugged me the same way it bugged me that Jess was the one to convince her to pull her head out of her ass and go back to Yale. 

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For the life of me, I can't remember the name of the episode even though I saw it recently.

But in the episode, Jess gives Rory back her book with his notes in the margins. I know that we are supposed to think, "how cute, he is perfect for her." but all I could think was how pissed off I would be if some guy stole one of my books - remember he didn't ask to borrow it, he just took it - and then had the nerve to write in the margins. I was and still am a serious bookworm. Like, Rory Gilmore had nothing on my teenage self when it came to the number of books I devoured and owned. I would have hated someone forever if they had done that to one of my books. Hell, I hate when I check a book out of the public library and find that someone took it upon themselves to write in it - whether it is to correct a punctuation/grammar error or to write a note in the margin. I hated that Rory was pleased by Jess doing that. It totally went against what most bookworms I know, as well as I myself would have been ok with. 

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The thing I never could get over was when Dean showed up (uninvited) on Rory's Friday alone night and found Jess and Paris there, he wouldn't stop screaming at Rory and she didn't demand an apology and instead apologized to him. I stopped liking him then forever. Why was she such a doormat sometimes?

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2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

The thing I never could get over was when Dean showed up (uninvited) on Rory's Friday alone night and found Jess and Paris there, he wouldn't stop screaming at Rory and she didn't demand an apology and instead apologized to him. I stopped liking him then forever. Why was she such a doormat sometimes?

Even Paris could see that was wrong and so decided to help Rory out. I really didn’t like Dean in that episode either but I loved how that was the episode that sort of started Rory and Paris’ friendship. I always thought that Rory inviting Paris to sleep over as a thank you and her appreciating what she had done for her was really sweet. 😊

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17 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

The thing I never could get over was when Dean showed up (uninvited) on Rory's Friday alone night and found Jess and Paris there, he wouldn't stop screaming at Rory and she didn't demand an apology and instead apologized to him. I stopped liking him then forever. Why was she such a doormat sometimes?

Funny enough, that was one of the episodes that really made me hate Jess. He also showed up uninvited. Except he lied about his reasons for being there. Refused to leave even when Rory made it a point to dismiss him. Decided that because Rory offered him fries in lieu of a tip, that it was "an invitation or invitation-like" got irritated when he found out that Paris was there and then made fun of her for inviting Paris to stay - when he himself had not been invited to stay. All things that a creepy stalker who doesn't understand the word no would do - much like his behavior in the sleigh during the Bracebridge dinner, except he was in her home. 

Edited by MatildaMoody
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21 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

All things that a creepy stalker who doesn't understand the word no would do - much like his behavior in the sleigh during the Bracebridge dinner, except he was in her home. 

Amen to that.  I hated his creepy behavior.  I don't think it was liking Rory, he enjoyed screwing with Dean until he "won".  Punk.

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12 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

, The thing I never could get over was when Dean showed up (uninvited) on Rory's Friday alone night and found Jess and Paris there, he wouldn't stop screaming at Rory and she didn't demand an apology and instead apologized to him. I stopped liking him then forever. Why was she such a doormat sometimes?

The only part I didn't like about that was that he showed up when she told him she wanted to be alone. But, Paris and Jess also came over and wouldn't leave when asked, so they're all pretty much tied at that point.  But, I would be mad if my significant other told me I couldn't come over because they wanted to be alone and then found out there were other people over there, including the guy who was obviously trying to get with her.

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Yea, other than Paris, I was pretty annoyed by everyone's behavior that night. Jess should have listened when Rory said she wanted to be alone. I'm a pretty big Jess fan, but I don't care for the way he would intentionally try to cause problems with Rory and Dean. Rory 100% should not have lied to Dean about the situation. And Dean treated he owned her when he showed up. They were all actin a fool. Paris for the win. Not only because she tried to deescalate the situation and help her friend; but also for her disdain for the highly overrated Kerouac. 

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On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 4:07 PM, MatildaMoody said:

For the life of me, I can't remember the name of the episode even though I saw it recently.

But in the episode, Jess gives Rory back her book with his notes in the margins. I know that we are supposed to think, "how cute, he is perfect for her." but all I could think was how pissed off I would be if some guy stole one of my books - remember he didn't ask to borrow it, he just took it - and then had the nerve to write in the margins. I was and still am a serious bookworm. Like, Rory Gilmore had nothing on my teenage self when it came to the number of books I devoured and owned. I would have hated someone forever if they had done that to one of my books. Hell, I hate when I check a book out of the public library and find that someone took it upon themselves to write in it - whether it is to correct a punctuation/grammar error or to write a note in the margin. I hated that Rory was pleased by Jess doing that. It totally went against what most bookworms I know, as well as I myself would have been ok with. 

I found it hard to believe Rory was pleased with it too. I would be pissed too. Someone stole one of my books? Then wrote in it? He'd be lucky I didn't hurt him. I kept my books in perfect condition and hated to even loan them out because they rarely came back in the condition it when I loaned it. I hated finding writing in books too usually ones I checked out from the library or bought off ebay despite claims it was in perfect condition. 

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My college textbooks always had to be new; I couldn’t handle someone else’s notes in the margin.

I hadn’t seen the Rory/Paris/Jess dinner in a long time.  I watched it on YouTube to refresh my memory, and I forgot how much Jess was written like a bad romance novel with his inviting himself to dinner and his “You think we need a chaperone so that proves you really like me” crap.  I really hate how ASP wanted us to think a guy who refused to respect a person’s boundaries is really sexy and a woman who keeps saying no secretly wanted to say yes.

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15 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I found it hard to believe Rory was pleased with it too. I would be pissed too. Someone stole one of my books? Then wrote in it? He'd be lucky I didn't hurt him. I kept my books in perfect condition and hated to even loan them out because they rarely came back in the condition it when I loaned it. I hated finding writing in books too usually ones I checked out from the library or bought off ebay despite claims it was in perfect condition. 

She was so in awe of the fact that a guy could read since by that point, ASP had changed Dean into someone who couldn’t. 

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On 12/7/2018 at 11:39 AM, deaja said:

She was so in awe of the fact that a guy could read since by that point, ASP had changed Dean into someone who couldn’t. 

Right because a "bad boy" who can read! I mean what book work girl wouldn't fall over him? 

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On 12/5/2018 at 6:13 PM, MatildaMoody said:

Funny enough, that was one of the episodes that really made me hate Jess. He also showed up uninvited. Except he lied about his reasons for being there. Refused to leave even when Rory made it a point to dismiss him. Decided that because Rory offered him fries in lieu of a tip, that it was "an invitation or invitation-like" got irritated when he found out that Paris was there and then made fun of her for inviting Paris to stay - when he himself had not been invited to stay. All things that a creepy stalker who doesn't understand the word no would do - much like his behavior in the sleigh during the Bracebridge dinner, except he was in her home. 

So much this! I don't get the people who think Rory and Jess are some great couple.  He was creepy, didn't respect boundaries, and couldn't take no for an answer. He worked very hard to cause problems for Rory and Dean.  He was scum.  Then Rory is either too stupid to see it (I doubt that) or just doesn't care (makes her quite the bitch).  Then again, maybe they were a great couple as they were both horrible people during that whole thing.

I also don't get what is supposed to be so smart about Jess.  People say that he is Rory's equal intellectually.  While the show never really showed her being a major genius when it came to anything but writing, she did graduate valedictorian from a prestigious prep school. Jess needed Rory's help to pass Stars Hollow High and still didn't graduate. Don't really see how that makes the two equal.  At least Dean got all of her book and movie references in the first season  and worked hard to get into college and Logan had no issue getting into and graduating from Yale.  Seems like either were more suited to Rory's intellect than Jess.

I really REALLY hated Jess.

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On 12/5/2018 at 6:58 PM, peacheslatour said:

The thing I never could get over was when Dean showed up (uninvited) on Rory's Friday alone night and found Jess and Paris there, he wouldn't stop screaming at Rory and she didn't demand an apology and instead apologized to him. I stopped liking him then forever. Why was she such a doormat sometimes?

She wasn't being a doormat, she was reacting like the person who was in the wrong. Eventually, all their issues were laid at her feet and I see that example in the scene you mention.

Even in the revival she was kissing Dean's ass acting like she's the one who was in the wrong, and she missed out on her chance. And you know what? Fans LOVED it!

After many rewatches, its become clear to me that Rory was ASP's whipping character while Lorelai was the golden girl.

Edited by Deputy Deputy CoS
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