Season One Talk: No Gaelic Required

[Athena]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's first season. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

 

There is Open Book Talk here. All published books and spoilers are allowed. Non-Book Watchers, your S01 thread is here.

 

Witty subtitle welcome.

[Keeta]

Potential subtitle: Is there any more whisky?

[Nidratime]

Season One Talk: No Gaelic Required.

Season One Talk: English Subtitles Provided.

Season One Talk: Gaelic, Optional

[GHScorpiosRule]

Season One Talk: No Gaelic Required.

Season One Talk: English Subtitles Provided.

Season One Talk: Gaelic, Optional

I like them all, but especially the first one!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, so I'll start, now that the season is over.

 

I really loved this first season, and sure it had its rough spots (putting it mildly!), and I realize there is no point in bitching about what was left in and was cut or what was expanded, BUT....I have to say this thing. Again. I know I mentioned it in the episode thread. "The Devil's Mark" I think it was, but for me, it bears repeating.  For me, because I hadn't gotten to this point yet until after the hiatus, I think.

 

The stones. Yes, the stones. Moore should have clarified/shown me (because I won't speak for anyone else), that Claire made the choice to stay--not because the Stones weren't working. But to show her anguish over leaving Jamie or not returning to Frank (which should have happened in "Both Sides Now"), her absolute struggle and honestly thinking that Jamie would forget her and move on with his life. Didn't she also say "with that Laoghaire person"?

 

Then when she finally tells Jamie where she's from. She wasn't sitting down, calmly letting it all out. She was pacing, stuttering, trying to get everything out. But no. We don't get that. What we do get is too much of the stupid Witch Trial because...why again? I forget Moore's reasons for that. Or how many times we had to hear "Buirn THE WITCH!"

 

Sacrificing emotional beats for melodrama. Bad choice there, Moore. A verra bad choice.

 

I'm not saying everything had to be adapted, but the big moments? Should have been; it didn't need to be exactly like the book, but enough so I could see why Claire would choose to stay with Jamie.

 

I will say, that though Jamie was quick to accept on faith alone, that Claire wasna a witch, and believed Claire, Sam did a great job in those scenes. His eyes alone spoke his thoughts and questions, if that make sense. He showed me Jamie was listening, and trying to process what Claire was telling him.

 

And I'll leave it here for now, because I don't want to open that can of worms over the whole spanking v. beating episode.

[Petunia846]

Sacrificing emotional beats for melodrama. Bad choice there, Moore. A verra bad choice.

 

I'm not saying everything had to be adapted, but the big moments? Should have been; it didn't need to be exactly like the book, but enough so I could see why Claire would choose to stay with Jamie.

Yep. Which is why all I can reason is that there's a fundamental misunderstanding of what the big moments of the book actually are, due to a fundamental misunderstanding of what the story is about. I had an inkling when they expanded the scene with Randall for 'The Garrison Commander' because he said that was part of the book people really cared about or wanted to see or something, and well, yeah...

[chocolatetruffle]

There were two issues that immediately come to mind as I think over the season: what story is the show trying to tell? and poor time management in telling that story, especially in the second half.  I know RDM has said more than once in his podcast that (paraphrasing here) 'there was no need for any dialogue here, the actors faces said everything there was to say.'  My issue has always been with where he chose to have the silences vs. where he had characters discussing the same issue over and over.  

 

The way both trips to the stones were handled are telling.  The Ep08 stones scenes were set up as a climax of that episode and Claire's journey up to that point, but then there was no aftermath.  Claire's failed attempt to get back to Frank was dropped.  Then we have the Devil's Mark in which the climax was Jamie's rescue of Claire as Geillis reveals she's a time traveler.  Claire's time travel reveal and trip back to the stones were the fallout and resolution.  As you say, GHScorpiosRule, there should have been no confusion about Claire's choice. 

 

The story the show gave us climaxed with Jamie at the window at the end of the first half.  The show's story was Jamie & Claire vs. BlackJack.  As Petunia846 says, The Garrison Commander tells us loud and clear where the show's story is going.  

 

That is one interpretation of the book, but it's worth discussing if that's the strongest, most meaningful interpretation of the book.  I would argue a richer choice is the story of the power of a deep profound love that enables us to survive the most unspeakable adversity.  I would argue that the story of a woman who finds a life, a community and herself while finding a love that lasts a lifetime and the story of a man who finds a love stronger than anything he's known before, are more central to the book's themes.  I would argue that this should have been the story of Jamie & Claire.  

 

But I would love to hear what other people think about this because there were absolutely moments that I loved, but there were also times when I expected to be moved deeply and I wasn't.

Edited June 1, 2015 by chocolatetruffle

[AheadofStraight]

That was such a small part of the book, like a few lines IIRC. I hadn't read the books yet at that point and was surprised when I got there. 

 

WORD to all of your post, GHScorpiosRule!

 

Can't wait to see what he thinks the big moments are in the next one. Oy. 

[MsProudSooner]

Considering the fact that they were adapting a 600 page book into 16 one hour episodes, I think they did a phenomenal job.  

 

Casting:  A+  

Set Design and Costumes:  A

Photography A

Music A+

 

Are there some things that I might have done differently if I ruled the world?  Of course there are.  There are always going to be controversies over the decisions made when a popular book or series of books is adapted for TV or the movies.  But for me, when you compare this body of work with other similar projects, this stands head and shoulders above the rest.  I think the primary reason is that DG created characters we really care about and TV series has done a great job of bringing those characters to life in front of our eyes. 

 

I really look forward to Season 2.

[MsProudSooner]

Sorry to reply to my own post, but I couldn't find an 'Edit' button.  

 

I forgot to mention that I don't think I've ever read of an author being as pleased with the adaptation of her book as DG has been.  

[Nidratime]

Thought this might fit better here than in the media thread.... Reviewer at Paste Magazine rates the Outlander season one episodes:

 

Dinna Fash: Here's Your Definitive Ranking of Outlander Season One Episodes

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/06/dinna-fash-heres-your-definitive-ranking-of-outlan.html

[Petunia846]

There were two issues that immediately come to mind as I think over the season: what story is the show trying to tell? and poor time management in telling that story, especially in the second half.  I know RDM has said more than once in his podcast that (paraphrasing here) 'there was no need for any dialogue here, the actors faces said everything there was to say.'  My issue has always been with where he chose to have the silences vs. where he had characters discussing the same issue over and over.  

 

The way both trips to the stones were handled are telling.  The Ep08 stones scenes were set up as a climax of that episode and Claire's journey up to that point, but then there was no aftermath.  Claire's failed attempt to get back to Frank was dropped.  Then we have the Devil's Mark in which the climax was Jamie's rescue of Claire as Geillis reveals she's a time traveler.  Claire's time travel reveal and trip back to the stones were the fallout and resolution.  As you say, GHScorpiosRule, there should have been no confusion about Claire's choice. 

 

The story the show gave us climaxed with Jamie at the window at the end of the first half.  The show's story was Jamie & Claire vs. BlackJack.  As Petunia846 says, The Garrison Commander tells us loud and clear where the show's story is going.  

 

That is one interpretation of the book, but it's worth discussing if that's the strongest, most meaningful interpretation of the book.  I would argue a richer choice is the story of the power of a deep profound love that enables us to survive the most unspeakable adversity.  I would argue that the story of a woman who finds a life, a community and herself while finding a love that lasts a lifetime and the story of a man who finds a love stronger than anything he's known before, are more central to the book's themes.  I would argue that this should have been the story of Jamie & Claire.  

 

But I would love to hear what other people think about this because there were absolutely moments that I loved, but there were also times when I expected to be moved deeply and I wasn't.

Yes, yes, yes to your whole post. You managed to say what I've been trying to say much more eloquently.

 

I do want to say that while I'm picking at things, I did still enjoy the season as a whole, and many parts of it were fantastic. I can imagine many, many worse versions of adapting this book, so I'm thankful for what we got. It's just that it's so close to perfect that I wish we'd taken a few more steps and actually gotten there. My hope is that season 2 will be even better now that they've had this experience. I can't say I have a lot of trust in Moore, but I trust several of the writers, the actors, and a lot of the other people associated with the show. I'd happily watch Sam and Cait standing around reading a phone book, so I'll certainly be back for the next season, no matter how much I over-analyze season 1.

[peacefrog]

In hindsight I'm pretty resentful of The Search. I actually liked the episode right after it aired but now I see it as a huge time suck. At this point I would have even taken scenes of Frank looking for Claire from Both Sides Now interspersed with her search and leave the more Jamie and Claire development in that episode.  

 

I loved a lot of the changes such as Leogharie expanded/different role, the Watch, addition of Willie, the ring, etc.The Garrison Commander episode was done very well even though it's not one of my favorites.I found when they try to use things from the book just to please people it falters. The Reckoning had a few lines that did that, Father Anslem, Macrannoch, are some I can recall. 

 

Overall they did a great job, I think Ron Moore is pretty passionate in his vision and it's not going to match ours. That's why I would like more changes, it's to close to what we expect that it's going to be disappointing. Does that make sense, lol?

[Petunia846]

I'd say the best changes were the expansion/development of some of the secondary characters. I had this impression of Murtagh in the book as this stinky, oily little man who just sneered all the time, so to have the show version is a revelation. Ditto for all the MacKenzie men...Rupert, Angus, Willie, Ned! They were definitely good changes and I wish we could keep them around forever.

 

The worst part of the season...Arthur Duncan's horrible flatulence. I hope all the fart gags died with him.

[Nidratime]

I think having the Mackenzie men all fleshed out will make Culloden -- when it occurs -- all the more heartbreaking. Everyone will want all these men saved and we know that can't happen.

[rainsmom]

Hey, in which episode did Claire tell Jamie about Culloden? My husband is arguing that she never told him, but I remember she did. Just don't know when.

[tcay]

She told him in the witch trial episode, but we only heard it in voiceover. 

[AD55]

I appreciate everyone's comments – it's slightly confusing, however, as I sometimes find myself simultaneously agreeing and disagreeing with various points. It's a sign of how thoughtful the conversation has been over the course of the series. I've appreciated how well moderated the forum has been.

 

Okay, this is likely to be a long post, so you may want to move on – not much to see here. I go on at tedious length thinking that if I can sort out my feelings in one go, 'cause that's a thing, I might be able to transition to some other obsession until season 2 is imminent. I really want to get over my Outlander withdrawal.

 

I second MsProudSooner's grades. I think what Moore and Co. did in adapting a long, rambling, and often poorly plotted book was amazing. Full marks to all. We tend to focus, naturally enough, on the cast, but they wouldn't be half as good were it not for the efforts of every single person who worked on the show. In fact, they wouldn't even be there at all if the show-runners didn't have amazing instincts. As the first day of shooting loomed and they still hadn't cast Claire, I imagine the people in the panic room were taking turns talking each other back from the ledge, but no matter how desperate they must have felt, they didn't settle. They waited until they found the perfect actor.

 

For my part, I think Moore did a good job of balancing the relationship between Jamie and Claire with the need to open up the series. While I agree it's refreshing to see a more or less healthy relationship between two equals play out, I don't think what works in a romance novel or a two-hour romantic comedy or a traditional weepy would play out well over the course of a 16-episode series. I think they would have lost viewers. I was already sold on Jamie and Claire, but even I would have found it claustrophobic had they focused much more on the love story. It's clear from the first episode that Claire is going to end up with the “hunky” guy, as one friend of mine said. Claire and Jamie are such idealized characters that I believe the challenge was not to let their relationship dominate the whole series. There needed to be other things at stake. Even so, there were complaints that the time travel, politics, and historical context got short shrift.

 

I understand that many feel that some episodes wasted time that would have been better used furthering the love story, but IMO, “The Search” is not one of them. The Claire and Jenny scenes were dramatic and revelatory and I found watching the relationship between Claire and Murtagh develop deeply satisfying. I have to say I could watch Cait sing a bawdy Scottish song to the tune of Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy all evening. She's adorable. Even though Murtagh and Claire are bent on serious business, this episode was a welcome interlude of relative calm, and I needed that before the horrors of the last two episodes. It was good to see that it was possible for itinerant performers to move safely from village to village, none of which were being pillaged by the Red Coats or the Watch, at least on screen.

 

I know this will be unpopular and it seems paradoxical, but one episode I think actually did interfere with the development of the Jamie-Claire relationship is The Wedding. It's a joy to watch and I love the scenes with the supporting players, but that one night is asked to carry a lot of weight in the progress of their relationship. I would have preferred that half the episode be devoted to the wedding and half to Jamie and Claire getting to know each other after the wedding night – fishing, talking, fighting the Grants -- with the director using some device to show that time had passed and their relationship had deepened before the attempted rape by the deserters. Actually, I wish that had been cut so that rape didn't drive all of the major action. Jamie could still have left Claire behind because he was worried about taking her to the meeting with Horrocks and she could still have taken off for the stones. Plus, even though I know people don't always think rationally, Claire's blaming Jamie for the attempted rape never rang true for me. I do, on the other hand, understand why his feelings of guilt might have led him to think she did.

 

My main issue with the witch trial is not the time devoted to it, but that I kept expecting someone to say, “well we did do the nose, but she is a witch!” That aside I like the time devoted to it because it highlights Claire's complicated relationship with Geillis. Another reason I like "The Search" is we get to see Claire and another woman together without any men. I don't want Jamie to be her only important relationship. When Geillis discovers that Claire has no reason to be in the 1740s, she is foreshadowing the last episode when Claire tells Jamie that their relationship is the only thing that makes sense of her trip through the stones. To me, that shows that Moore does get that the story is most importantly a tale of two people who find meaning through a deep and abiding love.

Edited June 3, 2015 by AD55

[SpiritSong]

I'd say the best changes were the expansion/development of some of the secondary characters. I had this impression of Murtagh in the book as this stinky, oily little man who just sneered all the time, so to have the show version is a revelation. Ditto for all the MacKenzie men...Rupert, Angus, Willie, Ned! They were definitely good changes and I wish we could keep them around forever.

 

The worst part of the season...Arthur Duncan's horrible flatulence. I hope all the fart gags died with him.

I mostly agree with this post with the exception of Ron Moore making BJR essentially one of the leads. Randall is a SECONDARY character, not the star of the show or the focus of the book. I didn't mind Frank's expanded role so much, but by the end I was heartily sick of Black Jack Randall. This is Claire and Jamie's story and it was hijacked by the show runner's love of a certain actor. If he wants to make a show about BJR, more power to him, but I have no interest in watching it.

A strong villain is usually a good thing, but not when it overshadows the lead characters. And as you said, there were an abundance of wonderful secondary characters like Murtagh and Dougal and Geillis that contributed so much to the story. More of them and less of Tobias Menzies, who I agree is a wonderful actor, would have improved the viewing experience.

[chocolatetruffle]

Yep. Which is why all I can reason is that there's a fundamental misunderstanding of what the big moments of the book actually are, due to a fundamental misunderstanding of what the story is about. I had an inkling when they expanded the scene with Randall for 'The Garrison Commander' because he said that was part of the book people really cared about or wanted to see or something, and well, yeah...

 

And it's decisions like this that made their standard reply when asked about important scenes that were left out or glossed over (or, in the example of Claire's decision at the stones, were shot and later cut) that they didn't have time and couldn't include everything, so frustrating.  They had more than enough time in 16 hours of programming to give us all of the books high points:  Claire's decision; her killing of the Redcoat soldier and her guilt over that and abandoning her husband, that she discussed with Father Anselm; Jamie's breakthrough that allows him to pull out of his shame over the rape. I mean, of all things to rush through??? 

 

One of my favorite all-time book to mini-series adaptations was Shogun.  They almost went page by page, highlighting everything important from the book and glossing over those things that didn't contribute to either the plot or character.  And they did it in 12 hours.  Now granted, Shogun has a much stronger, linear plotline that's pretty hard to miss - but still...

 

Ah well, on to season 2, which despite my disappointments with this one, I'm looking forward to.  Mostly because the good parts of this season were REALLY good.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in Jamie's thread, but since it is show related, I'll put it here. 

 

Although "Wentworth Prison" was very difficult to watch; barely any humor or levity to speak of, I did like Jamie's snarky "If it'll stop yer talkin'" to Black Jack (when he asked if he could look at Jamie's back and his "masterpiece"), because it showed me Jamie would go down fighting, if you will, had Claire not shown up.  It also brings it full circle, because in "Castle Leoch" when Jamie is telling Claire about the time when he was flogged, and Black Jack asked Jamie if he was scared (because of Jamie's shaking), Jamie comes back with "I'm afrraid I'll frrreeze tae death..." if Black Jack doesna stop talking. Black Jack does like to hear himself talk, doesn't he?

 

I really love it when Sam/Jamie roll his r's.*

 

*I'm not sure if the apostrophe belongs there, but typing rs didn't look right!

Edited June 5, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[Summer]

Can anyone tell me if this quote was in the book only or in the TV Series:

(I'm paraphrasing slightly)

Jamie:  "I can bear pain myself, but could not bear yours, that would take more strength than I have"

 

I am not a book reader and have watched every episode of the TV series more than once and I cannot for the life of me find out where Jamie says this.

 

Thanks!

[WatchrTina]

IIRC he says it during "The Watch", in his and Claire's bedroom, after she confesses that she does not think she can give him children.  That's him trying to make the best of the devastating news.

Edited June 12, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Summer]

Thanks, WatchrTina!

 

 

[Glaze Crazy]

Here's the passage from the book, Summer.  It was a conversation in the book after Jenny had the baby.  The only difference is that Jamie initiates the subject of Claire not having a baby.

 

At last we made our way to our own room, which seemed silent and empty in contrast to the warm family scene we had just left, Ian kneeling by his wife’s bed, hand resting on small Jamie as Jenny nursed the new baby. I was conscious for the first time of just how tired I was; it was nearly twenty-four hours since Ian had roused me. Jamie closed the door quietly behind him. Without speaking, he came behind me and undid the fastenings of my gown. His hands reached around me and I lay back gratefully against his chest. Then he bent his head to kiss me and I turned, putting my own arms around his neck. I felt not only very tired, but very tender, and not a little sad. “Perhaps it’s as well,” Jamie said slowly, as though to himself. “What’s as well?” “That you’re barren.” He couldn’t see my face, buried in his chest, but he must have felt me stiffen. “Aye, I knew that long ago. Geillis Duncan told me, soon after we wed.” He stroked my back gently. “I regretted it a bit at first, but then I began to think it was as well; living as we must, it would be verra difficult if you were to get with child. And now”—he shivered slightly—“now I think I am glad of it; I wouldna want ye to suffer that way.” “I wouldn’t mind,” I said, after a long while, thinking of the rounded, fuzzy head and tiny fingers. “I would.” He kissed the top of my head. “I saw Ian’s face; it was like his own flesh was being torn, each time Jenny screamed.” My arms were around him, stroking the ridged scars on his back. “I can bear pain, myself,” he said softly, “but I couldna bear yours. That would take more strength than I have.”

Gabaldon, Diana (2004-10-26). Outlander: with Bonus Content (p. 426). Dell. Kindle Edition.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Glaze Crazy

[Summer]

Thank you, Glaze Crazy, wonderful passage....swoon....:)

[GHScorpiosRule]

Boy, rewatching this show, I feel like just when I got the bluray of the definitive Last of the Mohicans, and watched that back-to-back, like 15 times. (Shut up, don't judge me. All y'all have to do is look at Daniel Day-Fucking!-Lewis as Nathaniel. 'nuff said).

 

And each time I watch, I find something new.  Like, in "The Reckoning", the last scene, I can see where the prosthesis of the scars on Sam's back begin. It's odd.  Same episode, I've now realized how redundant Claire's line of threatening to cut out Jamie's heart if he ever lays a hand on her again, is.  Because, I was thinking, ehm, that's exactly what Jamie said you could do, should he ever raise his hand to you again. Except it sounded more profound...from the heart? when he said it. And she just continued to look at him as if he were dirt she'd just scraped off her shoe.  (I use that phrase because I just know that people would just call it "bitchface" and I LOATHE that word).  I get she's still angry with him for the spanking.  I think Moore just wanted to use that phrase because Claire said it in the book. In hindsight and after 4? 5? viewings, I'm thinking they should have gone with one or the other.  My preference? Would have been to just keep Jamie's oath.

 

I also find myself wondering if the cast took any breaks during the filming of the first five episodes.  You can see how short Jamie's hair is in the first two or three. But by "The Gathering", you can see his hair has grown, like four inches.

 

There's a lot of love for Sam, Cait, Graham and Duncan, but I have to also say, that though I don't care for Frank, I really do appreciate and love how he can make Frank and Black Jack, look and act like two entirely different people.  I think it was in one of the flashbacks, where Claire is telling Frank she knows where "Jacobite" comes from, and the look on Frank's face...Tobias just makes him look, not naive, per se, but...boyish, and sweet, if that makes sense.  And Black Jack as cruel and just...sick and twisted.

 

I just hope they never, ever go back to styling Sam's hair like they did at the actual wedding in "The Wedding." By the time, it was the supper or dinner hour, I was grateful, the horrid hair sprayed look was gone, and his hair was all mussy and curly again; AND that his scrub was back.  And no matter how many times I've watched this episode, I continue to get tummy butterflies/sinking feeling when Jamie FINALLY KISSES Claire. you know right before Claire says;

 

"Where did you learn to kiss like that?"

 

And Jamie smiles that smile, with that raised brow and says:

 

"I said I was a virgin; no' a Monk."

 

Me: SIIIIIGH. And a HUGE GRIN on me face.

[AheadofStraight]

Yeah, that's a hot kiss! I hated his 80s blowout hair. It took me out of it for a bit!

 

They filmed the episodes/parts of episodes out of order so that probably explains the hair. I believe in that Reckoning episode, Claire's hair is long when they're fighting outside, then when he does the oath, her hair is shorter and curlier.  That make-up sex was the first sex scene filmed. I think they changed the prosthesis too? Or maybe got better at it over time?

[Summer]

Ah yes Jamie's wedding hair do.  When he first came out of the church I thought, "That hair is a bummer"  but then is does calm down so I got over it, but not a good look for him. 

 

I have Starz on Demand which is a good and bad thing because I have spent more time than I care to admit to rewatching every single episode.  Don't judge me either :)  But I also love discovering new things each time I rewatch, like MURTAUGH!  Never paid much attention to him but Wowza, just love him now!  First of all I didn't realize he was the one who rescued Claire from Black Jack in the very first episode.  And all the little touches: how he tells Claire in Rent that she was the reason they all got in a brawl, the smile and clap on Jamie's shoulder after they did the deed in The Wedding.  The cave seen in The Search "You think you;re the only one who loves Jamie?" The subtle rubbing of Claire's back while she is vomiting in Wentworth Prison and then he scoops her up and carries her and the smile when he discovers a way to "save young Jamie".  The look on his face when he is carrying Jamie out of the prison in To Ranson A Man's Soul.  And the Murtaugh scene that gets me every time from To Ransom A Man's Soul is when he and Claire are in the hallway and Claire wonders why her husband wants to kill him self and Murtaugh says he's been tortured....and then he hesitates, closes his eyes a bit and says...and raped....like it's just as painful to him to have to speak of what happened to Jamie.  Sigh...loving me some Murtaugh!  

 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I have Starz on Demand which is a good and bad thing because I have spent more time than I care to admit to rewatching every single episode.  Don't judge me either :)  

 

No judging! Believe me, I COMPLETELY understand!

 

As for On Demand...I guess it depends on the carrier, I have Xfinity, so the first season is available until September. And then POOF! All gone. Which is why I recorded them and KEPT them on my DVR, so when the price of the COMPLETE FULL First season, is affordable, I'm soooo buying it. 

[Summer]

My husband loves Veep on HBO but when it's over he will cancel the whole service, Starz included wahhhh!  The last episode of Veep is this weekend but I'm telling him that Outlander continues for another month so I'll get a few more weeks to obsess over....er...I mean...rewatch the episodes before it's gone.  

 

[chocolatetruffle]

Ah yes Jamie's wedding hair do.  When he first came out of the church I thought, "That hair is a bummer"  but then is does calm down so I got over it, but not a good look for him. 

 

I have Starz on Demand which is a good and bad thing because I have spent more time than I care to admit to rewatching every single episode.  Don't judge me either :)  But I also love discovering new things each time I rewatch, like MURTAUGH!  Never paid much attention to him but Wowza, just love him now!  First of all I didn't realize he was the one who rescued Claire from Black Jack in the very first episode.  And all the little touches: how he tells Claire in Rent that she was the reason they all got in a brawl, the smile and clap on Jamie's shoulder after they did the deed in The Wedding.  The cave seen in The Search "You think you;re the only one who loves Jamie?" The subtle rubbing of Claire's back while she is vomiting in Wentworth Prison and then he scoops her up and carries her and the smile when he discovers a way to "save young Jamie".  The look on his face when he is carrying Jamie out of the prison in To Ranson A Man's Soul.  And the Murtaugh scene that gets me every time from To Ransom A Man's Soul is when he and Claire are in the hallway and Claire wonders why her husband wants to kill him self and Murtaugh says he's been tortured....and then he hesitates, closes his eyes a bit and says...and raped....like it's just as painful to him to have to speak of what happened to Jamie.  Sigh...loving me some Murtaugh!  

 

May I add to your Murtaugh list the look on his face when he barged in on J & C and caught sight of Claire in the afterglow in Pricking of my Thumbs.  Priceless.  In fact, I loved his reactions throughout that whole scene.

 

Yeah, Jamie's wedding hair was tragic.  Thank goodness it reverted back to the boyish mophead by the end, 'cause I love that look.

[Nidratime]

My husband loves Veep on HBO but when it's over he will cancel the whole service, Starz included wahhhh!  The last episode of Veep is this weekend but I'm telling him that Outlander continues for another month so I'll get a few more weeks to obsess over....er...I mean...rewatch the episodes before it's gone.

 

 

Are you going to be able to get it back for the second season?

[Summer]

 

May I add to your Murtaugh list the look on his face when he barged in on J & C and caught sight of Claire in the afterglow in Pricking of my Thumbs.  Priceless.  In fact, I loved his reactions throughout that whole scene.

YES!  Just watched that one last night, love how he kind of figures out what he just barged in on and then awkwardly greets Claire.

 

And yes, without a doubt I will have Starz back for Season 2 :)

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yeah, that's a hot kiss! I hated his 80s blowout hair. It took me out of it for a bit!

 

They filmed the episodes/parts of episodes out of order so that probably explains the hair. I believe in that Reckoning episode, Claire's hair is long when they're fighting outside, then when he does the oath, her hair is shorter and curlier.  That make-up sex was the first sex scene filmed. I think they changed the prosthesis too? Or maybe got better at it over time?

 

Usually, after I've seen such a scene, it loses its effect on me. But then again, "The Kiss" between Nathaniel and Cora on Last of the Mohicans at the fort, well, hmm...uhhh...hmmm...I've always wondered if it was more than a kiss.

 

Claire's hair in "The Reckoning"--I always just figured, they (the hair people) styled her hair to be more curly; in the early scenes, you can see that the curls are more relaxed. 

 

Now that I can see where the prostheses for Jamie's back begins from, I can't unsee it in any of the episodes I watch where we see his back, heh.

[Petunia846]

I also like how they made it Murtagh who tells Claire that Jamie needs to marry a woman, not a lassie. Heh. That was a good switch from the book.

 

And I love how he saves her from Black Jack in the first episode, but then can't deal with her and whomps her on the head to shut her up. Always practical, our Murtagh.

[Summer]

 

Now that I can see where the prostheses for Jamie's back begins from, I can't unsee it in any of the episodes I watch where we see his back, heh.

You know, I found the same thing in Wentworth Prison with the prosthetic hand.  I noticed that I could almost see where Sam's real hand was kind of hidden in his sleeve, there is kind of a lump where you can just make it out.  And the arm is wayyyy too long, too.  So, happily, that scene doesn't really bother me so much because it truly seems like acting that Jack is nailing a nail into a fake hand and it's not really hurting Jamie.  At least that's the way I cope with it anyhow...lol

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

You know, I found the same thing in Wentworth Prison with the prosthetic hand.  I noticed that I could almost see where Sam's real hand was kind of hidden in his sleeve, there is kind of a lump where you can just make it out.  And the arm is wayyyy too long, too.  So, happily, that scene doesn't really bother me so much because it truly seems like acting that Jack is nailing a nail into a fake hand and it's not really hurting Jamie.  At least that's the way I cope with it anyhow...lol

 

I'm weak. I totally covered my face with my fingers and watched through them, closing my eyes as the hammer came down. But I made up for it by forcing myself to watch Black Jack pull the nail out of Jamie's hand.

 

And I TOTALLY thought of ye all, when in "The Reckoning" Jamie yelled "I orrrrdrerred ye tae stay puiiiiit!!" (Sorry, I suck at phoenetic Scots-Speak); Claire's "Your wife,your wife...you FUCKING BASTARD!" to Jamie's "Ye Foul Mouthed Bitch!", to him just being shocked by those words, falling to sit on the stone and his next words to Claire about (I think I have this right) "I went tae Fort William with my bare hands" and no gun to save her...to "Yer tearrring my guts ouuut, Clairre."

 

But I will forever love Jamie's take, the way he punctuated "My" and "wife" at the end of "Both Sides Now", which was shown again in "The Reckoning":

 

"I'll thank ye tae take your hands OFF.my WIFE."  

 

Back when I first read this book, I totally loved that line, it's always been one of my favorites and I was so glad they kept it in the show as well. It also reminded me of the same line being uttered my one of my favorite heroes by J.D. Robb, Roarke, in her In Death Series. The situations weren't at all comparable.  With Roarke, it was seeing his wife's (Eve) former one night stand from like years before (10), pulling her into his arms, because he still had the hots for her...and it was a charged situation, because Roarke and Eve had had a huuge fight over her going to question an enemy of Roarke's (Eve's a homicide cop).  And when Roarke gets his Irish up, well he gets more Irish, down with his brogue getting broader and he reverts to Irish Gaelic.  I say Irish Gaelic, because after watching this show, I realize the Gaelic for Scots is different for the Gaelic for the Irish. So's the pronunciation.

 

i.e..  In this show and in Scottish Gaelic, we have Sláinte Va, with the 'nte' being pronounced as "Ja" (thank you How to Speak Outlander videos!), whereas the Irish Gaelic, the "nte" is pronounced as "cha."

 

Sorry to get off-topic.  Where was I again?

 

Oh, yes. Jamie and Claire's fight.  And Claire seeing how much strength/courage it took (me: not surprised) Jamie having to return to Fort William, where he'd been flogged nearly to death...or maybe it was just seeing Jamie being shocked at the foul words he threw out at her, had her giving Jamie an apology. I don't know.  But it's such a powerful and raw scene.  The likes of which we don't see until "Wentworth Prison" and "To Ransom a Man's Soul."

 

I don't want to say that torturing Jamie made him a man...but we know that when Jamie married Claire, he was still that "young lad, Jamie", and really didn't get a sense of him coming to his own. For me, he came to his own, and I could see him as man, if you will, in "The Watch."  And then it rammed it home even further in "Wentworth Prison", which is why when he told Claire "Do as I say", it never occurred to me, had he said it at any other time, that Claire would balk. I...don't have the words to explain that last scene between them...Cait and Sam were just phenomenal. Claire not wanting to leave Jamie; knowing what would happen, but no, not really. And Jamie trying to make her feel better and make her go away.

 

I'm sure someone else here, can say it much better.

[Summer]

GHScorpiosRule-I hear what you are saying.  That line killed me, seriously for days my stomach would drop when I thought about it or rewatched it.  I think you are right that Jamie didn't really become a man until Wentworth.  Ever since he and Claire got married and he was so hopelessly in love with her I found that she kind of wore the pants, being the 'older, more experienced' woman.  For example, in Both Sides Now when he asks her if it is always so between a man and a woman.  In The Reckoning during that fight he backs down after he calls her a bitch and apologizes to her, too, even though he had every right to be mad.  And then later, in Lallybroch, when he's kind of acting like an ass, Claire drags him out of bed to set him straight "You may speak when I am finished!".   So when he says "Do as I say" there was this, for lack of a better way to explain it, like he was calmly and authoritatively quieting a child, although that isn't really right either.  Ugh, I STILL can't really explain, I should stop trying!

 

The other thing that killed me in that scene is when he tells Jack Black to send Claire away, again, it was just the way he said it, so calmly and authoritatively.  

                        

 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Summer:

 

Like others have stated, you said it perfectly. I think the word we're looking for is that Jamie didn't say this while in a temper. It was calm and you could hear the authority.  Not a demand. Or said in anger.  That's the best way I can describe Jamie in that moment.

[peacefrog]

I felt we did not see book Jamie until Wentworth. It was the first time they captured the spirit/essence of his character. Not just after BJR gets there. Watching the hangings was when it started, finally. His presence was very commanding in that yard and I bought he was a capable, brave leader. 

[Summer]

Yes, GHScorpiosRule, it was the quiet, commanding (perfect word, Peacefrog, the one I've been searching for) way that he said it.  Even though he was in VERY  dire straights he was in control of the situation, calmly and quietly "Do as I say"  "Send her away" and both Black Jack and Claire do as he asks.  It's a very powerful transition of his character.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

I felt we did not see book Jamie until Wentworth. It was the first time they captured the spirit/essence of his character. Not just after BJR gets there. Watching the hangings was when it started, finally. His presence was very commanding in that yard and I bought he was a capable, brave leader. 

 

For me, it was "The Watch."  After Jamie and Ian return from having disposed of Horrocks, when McQuarrie asked him, Jamie was all "Fuck it" and came clean and told him that he'd killed Horrocks (even though it was Ian), and why. And calmly buttering? his scone? bannock? while doing so.

Edited June 15, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[chocolatetruffle]

“Do as I say” Four little words, but loaded with so much history, meanings and emotion.  THAT my friends, is acting.

 

I began to see Jamie come into his own when he returned to Cranesmuir to rescue Claire.  When he burst into the trial and gave the ‘pledge to protect this woman’ speech that ended with another of my favorite lines “The first man forward, will be the first man down” – with that look of “I f’- ing mean it” and it was hilarious that nobody moved.  I saw Jamie the man as he worked through the realization and implication of his wife confessing she’s a time traveler.  That was my vision of book Jamie who I affectionately refer to as JAMMF.

 

Lallybroch was a short-lived diversion as he dealt with the repercussions arising from BJR/Jenny and his father’s death.

 

The Watch was gratifying because Jamie was so “commanding” (great word) and McQuarrie recognized it almost immediately (somewhere around the time that Jamie threatened to ram that pistol down his throat).  The biscuit scene was icing on the cake for me.

Edited June 16, 2015 by chocolatetruffle

[GHScorpiosRule]

Here's another thing that gets to me, and speaks of the feelings and the intimacy between Jamie and Claire: when they're holding hands, running their fingers over the fingers of the other, with the small squeeze. And the way they look at each other during those moments. Words are not necessary.

 

Sure, the sex and love making scenes are hot, but I find myself just feeling this visceral...punch when they're holding hands.

Edited June 16, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[peacefrog]

It really is fantastic subtle acting. I bet if we watch these episodes we can tell just by the confidence growing in his eyes alone. In the earlier episodes you can see him thinking but there is doubt in his eyes, by Wentworth Jamie's eyes reflect he means what he says.

Edited June 16, 2015 by peacefrog

[GHScorpiosRule]

SHIT!FUCK!!!DAMN!!

My recording of "The Devil's Mark" cut off at the 25 minute mark! GAH!!!

At least I have On Demand until September and hopefully by then, they'll have released the first season in one volume. If I can wait that long, that is!

[Summer]

 

My recording of "The Devil's Mark" cut off at the 25 minute mark! GAH!!!

Nooooooo!!!!  The second half is the best part!  Whew for On Demand, huh?  So Veep ended its season last night and I told my husband Outlander isn't finished yet so we have to keep Starz for a little while longer...hee hee hee 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Nooooooo!!!!  The second half is the best part!  Whew for On Demand, huh?  So Veep ended its season last night and I told my husband Outlander isn't finished yet so we have to keep Starz for a little while longer...hee hee hee 

 

 

I know! I just don't really care for the Witch Trial part. It's after Jamie gets there that it gets good!  And I'm trying to find out if they will release a full set of Season One or if we have to buy it Volume 1 and Volume 2.  Volume has gone down in price--it's around $23, which MUCH better than the $45 it was when it first came out.  And the second half is at $35. UGH. I just have to tell myself, you dinna have the money rieght naew, you dinna have the money rieght naew...and just hold off until September.

[AD55]

“Do as I say” Four little words, but loaded with so much history, meanings and emotion.  THAT my friends, is acting.

 

I began to see Jamie come into his own when he returned to Cranesmuir to rescue Claire.  When he burst into the trial and gave the ‘pledge to protect this woman’ speech that ended with another of my favorite lines “The first man forward, will be the first man down” – with that look of “I f’- ing mean it” and it was hilarious that nobody moved.  I saw Jamie the man as he worked through the realization and implication of his wife confessing she’s a time traveler.  That was my vision of book Jamie who I affectionately refer to as JAMMF.

 

Lallybroch was a short-lived diversion as he dealt with the repercussions arising from BJR/Jenny and his father’s death.

 

The Watch was gratifying because Jamie was so “commanding” (great word) and McQuarrie recognized it almost immediately (somewhere around the time that Jamie threatened to ram that pistol down his throat).  The biscuit scene was icing on the cake for me.

 

Love all of these scenes. Sam's expression when he faces down the mob at the witch trial is so sexy as well as commanding. I've seen some freeze frames of Sam's face in that scene -- oh my.

 

A couple of my favorite part 2 Jamie moments:

 

--At the hanging, when McQuarrie says "I only regret one thing," to which Jamie replies, "What would that be Mr. McQuarrie?" It's a small moment, and I'm not exactly sure why it gets to me. I think it's because Jamie's doesn't-miss-a-beat response shows someone is there who cares very deeply about what McQuarrie regrets and about McQuarrie himself. The "Mister" is Jamie telling the red coats that McQuarrie is a man deserving of their respect, at the same time he is letting McQuarrie know that what the red coats think doesn't matter. He knows the truth of who McQuarrie is -- only Jamie and McQuarrie exist at that moment. As always, Sam's delivery is perfect.

--When Randall returns after freeing Claire and Jamie says, "She's away safe then." Sam's delivery offers just the slightest hint of doubt. It breaks my heart. Randall's "we are both men of honor," is chilling.