S02.E08: Providence

[HalcyonDays]

Episode synopsis: Caleb sails a one-man submersible into New York Harbor. France becomes an ally to America. Andre and Peggy plot to elope.

 

[ketose]

Wow. Things happened this week. Benedict Arnold seems to be pissed because he's not Washington. Andre put his job before his lady. Hewlett is still a bad ass and there was precious little of the Woodhulls.

 

The submarine is total BS. An unused prototype of such a thing wasn't even made until the Civil War.*

 

*I stand corrected. I had the feeling I was going to.

Edited May 26, 2015 by ketose

[Kabota]

The submarine is total BS. An unused prototype of such a thing wasn't even made until the Civil War.

http://connecticuthistory.org/david-bushnell-and-his-revolutionary-submarine/

Caleb was hilarious clean shaven and lobsterback style. Although I'm not entirely sure what the grand plan was, as it seemed to be developing on the fly, the scene of him procuring the uniform was gold.

Lafayette and Washington was cool, but I guess the whole king's seal thing was just no big deal in the end? Bummer Caleb and Ben missed the Valley Forge partay.

Totally predicted Andre would slice and give the braid to Peggy. What's Abigail going to do now? Will she go back to NYC with Andre or stay in Philly with Peg?

Really love Owain Yeoman as Arnold. I'd been doubtful about the casting preseason, but he's probably been my favorite part of season 2.

The whole Simcoe/Hewlett thing seems destined for a horrific showdown.

Disappointed in the lack of Tallmadge the second half of the season. If TPTB needed him out, they could at least have had him off with the 2nd Dragoons patrolling and skirmishing between the Philly rivers as is historically the case. I guess he's still wandering Connecticut in search of Boston? His banishment and Abe's imprisonment are annoying plot devices at this point.

People do seem to make lots of decisions based on inaccurate information in this show. I guess that's the way it was before the postal service, mass media and the internet, lol?

Edited May 26, 2015 by Kabota

[Yolapukka]

That was better than last week's episode, I was entertained by the intent of the show, rather than by inadvertent silliness. The best was Caleb's half-baked mission to save Abe, which was delightful and engaging as all things Caleb always are. Too bad Abe had some other cunning plan and refused rescue, It probably involves a bin of turnips and changing his name to Baldric. Hewlett was also marvellous, too bad narrative necessity kept him from firing a pistol at Simcoe's head at close range when he arrived to save Anna from the villain's dastardly clutches. I would have missed that nasty bastard anyway. I could ship Anna and Hewlett or Mary and Hewlett or really almost any woman with someone who is not Abe. Except maybe sour-faced Peggy with her false eyelashes and blathering, she annoys the crap out of me. She and Abraham would be well-matched in personality. 

 

Shut-up Old man Woodhull, Mary has you outmatched and outwitted. Shut up Peggy. Shut-up Rogers. 

 

I've had more than enough of Rogers and his yelling, but all the same I did enjoy the way he dealt with that Goodfellas-style ambush. 

 

I don't hate Washington as portrayed by Ian Kahn, but I really need to see a lot less of him. I find it hijacks the momentum of the actual spy story which I thought was kind of the point of this show. I only found his presence tolerable due to the scenes with Benedict Arnold.

 

[Indi]

NOOOOOO! Not the braid! This will have some kind of Samson effect on André, won't it? This will mark the beginning of his downfall. *cries*

 

Still, I'm happy he chose duty before love. Peggy seems to be way more into him than he into her anyway. Now the writers have the rather impossible task to sell me Peggy genuinely falling for Arnold.

[red rph]

I noticed when the Major woke up, he said how glad he was to be in his house in his bed. I wonder if Mary took note of that and if it will help her understand why her husband is spying for the Americans.

It is only a matter of time before Hewlett hears about Anna kissing Simcoe in front of half the town. She'd better try to explain it to him first, but I doubt she will.

I agree, it seems impossible to believe that Peggy could fall in love with Arnold after being so into Andre.

[EyewatchTV211]

NOOOOOO! Not the braid! This will have some kind of Samson effect on André, won't it? This will mark the beginning of his downfall. *cries*

 

Still, I'm happy he chose duty before love. Peggy seems to be way more into him than he into her anyway. Now the writers have the rather impossible task to sell me Peggy genuinely falling for Arnold.

I wonder if the show will even bother having Peggy fall for Arnold or if they'll make that marriage more one of circumstance. Can't see her being thrilled with him after what it looked like in the previews - him forcing a kiss on her. We might never know anyway, with only 2 episodes left and the unlikely future of this show.

[Iboatedhere]

Things finally turn around at Valley Forge and of course Ben and Caleb miss it.

 

I love all things Caleb and Ben. I do need more Ben but I'll take what I can get at this point. Beardless Caleb is so odd yet so endearing. I loved him walking down the street with all the British soldiers saluting him. I would kick Abe's ass into this century if I were Caleb. I guess I understand where Abe is coming from (even though it pains me to admit it) but does he not understand ALL the shit Caleb went through to get into the city?? Just ditch Abe in prison and use Caleb as the spy. The war would be over in 5 minutes.

 

Good on that prostitute for demanding more money from Caleb for the uniform. What a rough life.

 

I know hair being used as a keepsake was pretty common back then but I just imagine Andre leaving after giving Peggy his braid and Peggy being like 'the fuck am I supposed to do with this?' because that's what I would've done.

 

I love Yeoman as Arnold too. He looked good this episode.

 

I forgot to mention Garreth! The little snitch from the last episode.  "Shut your gob, Garreth!" lol Everyone completely shutting him down made me laugh.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Iboatedhere

[attica]

I can hardly see to type. I have ice packs over my eyes to soothe the muscles I pulled rolling those orbs at the ridiculousness of Peggy just hanging out at the bf's house, sittin' around by the fire in her pjs catching up on the latest pamphlets. No chaperone, no escort, no servants. No. No. No. And no, she wouldn't be able to do her own hair, nor get into (or out of, comes to that) her own dress. This show does not understand the distinctions of class. Sigh.

 

Caleb's cherub cheeks are adorbs.

 

I loved the little squeak Simcoe made when Hewlett appeared.

[EyewatchTV211]

Disappointed in the lack of Tallmadge the second half of the season. If TPTB needed him out, they could at least have had him off with the 2nd Dragoons patrolling and skirmishing between the Philly rivers as is historically the case. I guess he's still wandering Connecticut in search of Boston? His banishment and Abe's imprisonment are annoying plot devices at this point.

So agree with this. I was all hopeful when we saw a lot of Ben in the beginning of the season, thinking maybe he was rising to be a co-lead with Abe. But they've really gone off course. 

[ybrik]

Well Andre does have servants. At least Abigail who could help Peggy. Knew the braid bit was  coming. I seem to remember reading or hearing something about when Peggy died among her belongings was a braid from Andre. It will be interesting how they play this with her and Arnold. I have seen/heard different interpretations of her actions through the years.

 

Caleb cut the beard. WTF!?! That is all.

 

Enjoyed Hewlett showing up Simcoe. However, I feel this is only just a single battle in a bigger war.

[Iboatedhere]

So agree with this. I was all hopeful when we saw a lot of Ben in the beginning of the season, thinking maybe he was rising to be a co-lead with Abe. But they've really gone off course. 

 

If we're going by screen time Abe isn't even the lead character anymore. Which is fine by me.

[attica]

Well Andre does have servants. At least Abigail who could help Peggy.

 

No, Peggy would not go out without her own ladies maid. A girl of that class could never rely on an unmarried man's house slave for dressing and undressing -- they'd lack the skillset!

 

Which, no kidding, I get that she's meant to be on the down low, but my point is NONE OF THIS WOULD EVER HAPPEN. Maybe if Peggy were married or widowed could she get away with sneaking around like this, but a teenage single girl of prominent family? She'd ruin her entire family! (See: Bennet, Lydia) And Andre would scuttle his own chances of advancement if his carrying on with her became known. An elopement would finish them both! They'd have to run away to (gasp!) Australia!

[Dagny]

I swear, I'm now getting to the age where I need big bubbles over people's heads to identify who they are. The mandatory name dropping isn't cutting it for me anymore. "The soldier" or "the spy" or "the tall" one helps anymore. :(

[Iboatedhere]

Who are you confused about, Dagny?

[Abigail394]

At the risk of my sounding dense. I'm not entirely clear about what happened in that last scene with Robert Rogers.  I didn't see the 10:00 p.m. broadcast.  I watched the 11:00 p.m. repeat.  So it could be that I was really tired.  I plan to watch the whole episode again.

 

In the meantime, though -- he went to pick up the reward money.  It was a set-up and there were British soldiers waiting for him.  They fought.  The man that he injured (or killed?  I wasn't sure if he died after their brief conversation) who was lying in the street told him that they were there on the orders of the king.  Rogers tossed some sort of badge or something on the man.  

 

So ... ???  I'm confused.  Help!

 

P.S.  Also -- why didn't Woodhull, Sr., want Hewlett to know that Abe was in prison?

Edited May 26, 2015 by Abigail394

[Primetimer]

Sackett lives on in an Inspector Gadget-y submersible, Shippendre hits a roadblock, and Hewlett rides again.

Read the story

[riverheightsnancy]

Loved this episode. Getting to see the Turtle in action was pretty cool. I just saw a documentary yesterday in which an artist recreated his version of the Turtle. He called it the "acorn" and got into a shitload of trouble with Homeland security trying to test it in a local river (around Baltimore I think). As a person born in Connecticut, I finally understand all the streets and things named Bushnell now! 

[attica]

why didn't Woodhull, Sr., want Hewlett to know that Abe was in prison?

 

Because he's a douche?  I think it's because he suspects Abe of playing for the Patriots, and prison is a good place for traitors. Hewlett will obvs spring him, which means Abe will get to counter-spy again. 

[dohe]

I adore Hewlett and am so glad he lived.  While not being a shipper, I find myself wanting him and Anna together.  Their chemistry is off the charts.  I am not as big on Simcoe nor am I as down on Abe.  Ambivalent towards most of the characters.  Hewlett though is such a wonderful character. 

 

That smile by Anna as she went up the stairs was the same smile I had when Hewlett was shown waking up in the bed.  Thank goodness.

Edited May 26, 2015 by dohe

[ComeWhatMay]

The way Gorman's Hewlett shut his eyes & took a breath when Lind's Anna kissed him on the cheek is what got me. And I agree the Hewlett & Anna coupling is a whole lot more shippable than Abe & Anna -- times like infinity. Kind of funny when you think about it, but to me it's the difference between chemistry & no chemistry & having actors talented & compelling enough to make you see the humanity in people on the other side. Feild's Andre is another case as mentioned. I'm not much for Peggy mainly because I know what goes down with Arnold -- unless they change it:-) They have other things.

Thank goodness all the pretty was back in this episode -- however briefly in Ben's case. Ben's cynicism & anger as the losses total up is quite believable. I do love me the 50 shades of Ben -- yowzaa! I have to say that I liked Caleb minus the beard too.

 

I know what the numbers are so I'm taking whatever I can get with this show period.

[EyewatchTV211]

I knew I recognized Lafayette from somewhere. If anyone here watches Person of Interest - he was briefly on the show as Carter's young new partner who was sided with HR initially.

[Kabota]

I know what the numbers are so I'm taking whatever I can get with this show period.

I know that the same day live numbers are bad, but does anyone have access to the live + 3 and 7 numbers? I usually can only find the 7's for the main networks. Just wondering if those stats, or Amazon/iTunes purchases, were more positive.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Kabota

[lynnea6]

I knew I recognized Lafayette from somewhere. If anyone here watches Person of Interest - he was briefly on the show as Carter's young new partner who was sided with HR initially.

 

Thank you!  I knew I recognized the guy but couldn't place him, nor did I see him listed for the episode on IMDB.

[EyewatchTV211]

Thank you!  I knew I recognized the guy but couldn't place him, nor did I see him listed for the episode on IMDB.

You're welcome. :) I actually did find him in the episode for IMDB, but they didn't list his character's name (Lafayette). They just had an actor's name and a blank space. I took a chance and clicked it, and there he was. 

[ganesh]

I was hoping we'd get more insight into why Arnold turned. From what I'm seeing it's because literally *everything* is a slight. He seems way more interested in making sure he gets credit for his actions that actually, you know, trying to win the war. Running Philadelphia is a huge promotion, and you can say it all you want pal, but you ain't fighting on that leg. You can't even get off a horse. I mean, I guess if that's the way he was, then that's the way he was. I'm not seeing Washington slighting him though. 

 

Hewlett was also marvellous, too bad narrative necessity kept him from firing a pistol at Simcoe's head at close range when he arrived to save Anna from the villain's dastardly clutches.

 

I can live with it. One officer isn't going to flat out murder the other one in what's basically the center of town. And Hewlett was freezing before, so he just stabbed him and ran. Simcoe's in it deep though, since Anna clearly knows something is going on.

 

I have to agree with Abe though. There's no reason to kill the spy ring if his life really isn't in any danger. He might as well play it out. Caleb can walk around freely for the most part, and if they can recruit the tavern guy, they've got a huge asset in the city.  

 

Shut-up Old man Woodhull, Mary has you outmatched and outwitted.

 

He's got to go. He's a danger to them all because he can spill the beans to Hewlett at any time. I can't believe he was still lying to them, and I'm glad the wife called him on it. He's got no use to them if he can't cover for them.

 

I noticed when the Major woke up, he said how glad he was to be in his house in his bed. I wonder if Mary took note of that and if it will help her understand why her husband is spying for the Americans.

 

I know. Seriously. Glad you didn't die because you have the legal authority to get Abe out of there, and if Washington pardoned him, then he's down with the plan, but sorry, no, that's not your house. 

 

Old Man Woodhull knows Abe is spying for the rebels and he knows the wife knows. He basically said as much in E6 I believe. He doesn't know Anna is in on it all though. 

[ZoqFotPik]

 

but I guess the whole king's seal thing was just no big deal in the end?

Yeah, I mentioned a few weeks ago how pointless the Rodgers plotline was going to turn out.

 

 

 

At the risk of my sounding dense. I'm not entirely clear about what happened in that last scene with Robert Rogers.  I didn't see the 10:00 p.m. broadcast.  I watched the 11:00 p.m. repeat.  So it could be that I was really tired.  I plan to watch the whole episode again.

In the meantime, though -- he went to pick up the reward money.  It was a set-up and there were British soldiers waiting for him.  They fought.  The man that he injured (or killed?  I wasn't sure if he died after their brief conversation) who was lying in the street told him that they were there on the orders of the king.  Rogers tossed some sort of badge or something on the man. 

So ... ???  I'm confused.  Help!

The King was tying up loose ends. They said multiple times that anyone who sees the document must die. Rodgers didn't think that applied to him, but was wrong. Basically it was a textbook "You have out lived your usefulness." The badge was the King's Royal Seal. He has flashed many times before. It shows that he his operating with the full authority the King.  With that seal, an order from Rodgers is the same as an order from the King.

[LittleIggy]

Next week: Mr. Shippen wonders why Peggy never has sleepovers with her friends at their house. Seriously, a young, unmarried respectable woman wouldn't be traipsing by herself to a man's house at all hours. It's funny that I was wondering if Andre would cut off that rat's tail braid and give it to her as a memento. A few minutes later he did!

Simcoe's high-pitched poncey voice is like fingernails on the blackboard to me! Loved the death stare Hewlett gave him.

Caleb cleans up cute! :-)

[Ina123]

I wonder how England and Canada feels about the portrayal of Simcoe as darn near psycho. Apparently, IRL he was quite a hero.

[attica]

I guess if that's the way he was, then that's the way he was.

 

I've read his diaries; he whines about every. fucking. thing. therein. Bitches about Ethan Allen getting any credit at all at Ticonderoga (viewed EA as a thug; he wasn't regular military), bitches about how he can't stand his (pre-Peggy) wife and doesn't want to go home to her, and when she conveniently dies before he gets home, he bitches about 'now I gotta go home and sort out somebody to raise the kids, not meeee.' Oh, he's awful. It's a fun read!

 

This all said, I don't keep a diary -- none of my own head-up-my-ass ramblings would paint me in a good light to future readers. ;)

[ganesh]

What a piece of work. Andre is going have no problem then. I thought it was going to be something more classically tragic. 

[HalcyonDays]

I know hair being used as a keepsake was pretty common back then but I just imagine Andre leaving after giving Peggy his braid and Peggy being like 'the fuck am I supposed to do with this?' because that's what I would've done.

 

Apparently put it in a locket, actually. Many people would have a painted portraits of their love one or family, and a lock of hair with it as a memento. Later on, with the invention of tintypes and daguerreotypes, they could take a picture. They would include the hair in either a small frame to carry or a locket or a pocket watch. Quite common actually.

 

I know that the same day live numbers are bad, but does anyone have access to the live + 3 and 7 numbers? I usually can only find the 7's for the main networks. Just wondering if those stats, or Amazon/iTunes purchases, were more positive.

 

The numbers are not very good since the move to Monday. Under a million viewers, 0.3-0.4 demo. Not good at all. *sad*

 

With that seal, an order from Rodgers is the same as an order from the King.

 

And that's the one thing that bothered me. Two actually. First, there are no telephones or telegraph to send messages fast. It was all on ship (to ports), horse or foot. Therefore news would travel somewhat fast to heavily populated ports like NY or Philiadelphia, but not smaller places. So why didn't Rodgers keep that King's seal, in case he needed it for those who didn't know he was to be killed.

 

Second - Rodgers was stupid for burning the wax seal before he got his money. Yeah, honour is important and many men at the time did keep to their word, but honestly, I wouldn't trust anyone. He should have kept the seal until he got payment. Yes, I know it was never to come, but I fully expect that to be the outcome of the whole plot. You don't burn your evidence before you get the reward.

 

I wonder how England and Canada feels about the portrayal of Simcoe as darn near psycho. Apparently, IRL he was quite a hero.

 

Yup he is. Quite an important figure in our country. I grew up near the city of Simcoe actually. Personally though, I love the depiction. He makes a great villian though I know it's artistic license.

 

That face-off between Hewett and Simcoe - I almost thought of it as a strange stalemate. They both are thinking "bastard, you can't kill me" while alternately thinking "I will make an effort to kill you but I can't so openly". Remember, both belong to the same military, so it's one word against another. It's a stalemate.

 

Decent episode. Still needs Moar Spy. Not enough Ben as always.

[Hanahope]

Seriously, any other non-important character would have died from that stab wound Hewlett gave Simcoe.  Hewlett's definitely going to keep guards around him at all times from now on, or at least until he's able to get rid of Simcoe, and vice versa.  I agree that Hewlett and Anna have tons more chemistry together than Anna and Abe ever did.  Wonder why Hewlett didn't ask Wood Sr why Anna was no longer at their house.  I just have to laugh at how one moment Simcoe is telling Anna Hewlett is dead and then in he walks the next.  I do hope that Anna explains to Hewlett why she had to kiss Simcoe before Hewlett hears the gossip.

 

So who did the patriots bury in the grave marked as Hewlett's and why?  Or did Simcoe's men do that in order to "fool" anyone who could theoretically try to 'rescue' Hewlett?  I thought Simcoe was going to claim to his men that he found Hewlett dead, so now he's acknowledged to his men that he's trying to kill his superior officer?

 

I'm not sure I really want to know if Hewlett was really in the stomach of a dead cow (and if so, where all the other 'bits" went) or how long he was there.

 

Loved Caleb's adventures in NYC.  I'm just amazed he was able to shave himself so well and looked pretty good for being so freshly shaved after a long time without.

 

Arnold is such an idiot. His men won't get much moral when he's falling off his horse.  I wonder whether Peggy marries him because she's requested to by Andre, or because she really wants to.  Either way its hard to see her doing it, given how she appears to feel for Andre.  Certainly it seems that she cares much more for Andre than for his 'cause'.  I agree that it seems so incredibly ridiculous that she's hanging out at Andre's house without an escort and/or maid.

[LittleIggy]

I couldn't believe Simcoe could survive a deep gut wound like that either, but since the real guy survived the war... I've heard of the gutting a cow, bison, horse thing and getting inside it to survive the freezing cold, but, yuck! just yuck! ;-)

[ganesh]

It worked for Luke on Hoth, so I figure it would work in Connecticut.

[EyewatchTV211]

Yup he is. Quite an important figure in our country. I grew up near the city of Simcoe actually. Personally though, I love the depiction. He makes a great villian though I know it's artistic license.

I've seen descriptions of little bits and pieces of history here and there that suggest he wasn't as squeaky clean as his overall reputation in Canada indicates, although he certainly wasn't a villain to the level that the show is portraying. 

[HalcyonDays]

I've seen descriptions of little bits and pieces of history here and there that suggest he wasn't as squeaky clean as his overall reputation in Canada indicates, although he certainly wasn't a villain to the level that the show is portraying. 

 

Definitely not squeaky clean but then what politican is? He was known to be stubborn and arrogant but also merciful at times. At Brandywine, he ordered that his men NOT shoot the Patriots who were running away. One of those Patriots was George Washington. Also, he abolished slavery in the future Canada before the British and way way before the US. That's why that scene of Simcoe giving Jordan his freedom papers in a earlier episode was extra special. Nice nod to the real not-so-villanous Simcoe.

 

Still, show!Simcoe is mustache-twirling awesome in his evilness!

 

I couldn't believe Simcoe could survive a deep gut wound like that either, but since the real guy survived the war... I've heard of the gutting a cow, bison, horse thing and getting inside it to survive the freezing cold, but, yuck! just yuck! ;-)

 

I agree. Gut wounds are deadly. But it's the same as Hewett surviving in the dead of winter with no clothes and only a blanket. He was there for at least two weeks if not more. No one could survive that.

[Kabota]

So who did the patriots bury in the grave marked as Hewlett's and why? Or did Simcoe's men do that in order to "fool" anyone who could theoretically try to 'rescue' Hewlett? I thought Simcoe was going to claim to his men that he found Hewlett dead, so now he's acknowledged to his men that he's trying to kill his superior officer?

Arnold is such an idiot. His men won't get much moral when he's falling off his horse. I wonder whether Peggy marries him because she's requested to by Andre, or because she really wants to. Either way its hard to see her doing it, given how she appears to feel for Andre. Certainly it seems that she cares much more for Andre than for his 'cause'. I agree that it seems so incredibly ridiculous that she's hanging out at Andre's house without an escort and/or maid.

I think that Simcoe told Akinbode to mark a grave for Hewlett, just after the stabbing, and make it look like the Continentals were responsible and cause confusion. And it worked. I kind of figured Akinbode was dealing with that task when Simcoe tells the other ranger to recall him at the beginning of this episode. Then again, it's doubtful that Akinbode is literate and someone must have carved the lettering. Would the rangers care that Simcoe had tried to kill Hewlett? He'd probably spin a story that they'd believe to justify it -- they're both terrified and respectful of him, it seems.

The clandestine meetings between Peggy and Andre definitely require suspension of disbelief. I'm still on the fence about Peggy. I just don't think the writers have done a particularly good job writing for the women. I do understand that it's tricky balancing credibility while looking at things with contemporary eyes, given the time constraints, but still.

The numbers are not very good since the move to Monday. Under a million viewers, 0.3-0.4 demo. Not good at all. *sad*

Renewal seems unlikely. The initial pluses were good, I'd thought but, yeah, demo is everything. I just keep hoping Netflix or iTunes/Amazon numbers might encourage them to finish up the story with a short order, if nothing else. Edited May 27, 2015 by Kabota

[Haleth]

Finish the story? Spoiler alert... The Americans win.

(Sorry. Being silly.)

[HalcyonDays]

Finish the story? Spoiler alert... The Americans win.

(Sorry. Being silly.)

 

Smart ass....

 

Spoiler tag that, Haleth!!! *grin*

[ketose]

TURN spent about 2 seasons on what is essentially backstory. The Culper Ring wasn't really operational until Townsend was able to supply information. For the writers, I think it gives them more leeway to write what they want, but it also leaves them unable to tell the real story. Plus, they find dumb ways to take us out of major battles, like Ben being ill during Washington crossing the Delaware.

 

If it's cancelled, they should do a one-shot miniseries about catching Benedict Arnold.

[pasdetrois]

Somewhere around Peggy's Botox and Washington's tortured musings the show lost me. The extended submarine stuff pushed me completely away. I kept thinking Disney or even Jack Sparrow.

[attica]

The submarine didn't surprise me, seeing as it was used in DaVinci's Demons a couple of seasons ago. I figure if they had 'em in Renaissance Italy, no worries for Caleb. :)

[OakGoblinFly]

Show, I really, really want to keep loving you but you're making it so danged hard to do so.

 

The first five episodes of this season were terrific; good writing, beautiful cinematography, compelling plot lines, and fantastic acting.  The powers-that-be remembered the show was about spies and the war and it was thoroughly entertaining.  Then it all fell apart; we got a really poorly written soap opera.  I really didn't need two and a half episodes of Mary and Anna drama (I didn't mind Abe in jail so much, it is the actions of others that makes that plot draggy), Hewlett captured, Simcoe doing whatever the hell he is doing, and Ben being benched.  I did appreciated seeing a conflicted Washington - however, I did not need a full episode dedicated to that.

 

I only like a little bit of this episode - Ben and Caleb are made of win and I enjoy them any time they are on screen (though I don't like how they are making Tallmadge look stupid/incompetent).  I enjoyed the scenes at Valley Forge and really like the characterization of Benedict Arnold; everything that I've read about Arnold rings very true in Owain Yeoman's portrayal.  

 

While I understand that a show needs to change certain elements of historic figures and real events to make for interesting television, I have a hard time with the changes to the Peggy Shippen story line.  Honestly, I've not like anything about Shippen-Andre as it has been portrayed. 

 

And while I'm not a fan of the entire Simcoe-Hewlett plot, I thought Burn Gorman was great; he conveys so much with just his face (so do Jamie Bell and Seth Numrich - I like that in actors).  Jamie Bell hasn't been given much to work with these last few episodes but he's really been making a valiant effort.

 

I am very tired of both Rogers and Simcoe - I don't understand their motivations beyond money and crazy.  Frankly they're a waste of air time ... the characters could be interesting, but they've been reduced to mustache twirling villains.  What was the point of sending Rogers after the king's ledger page?  Was it so the Continental Army won't realize how broke England is?  I don't understand Simcoe's action other than .... what?  Jealousy? 

 

Hey, show!  Please, please go back to what you did well .... look at the first five episodes and continue to do that (though I think chances of a third season are slim to none).

[ulkis]

The submarine didn't surprise me, seeing as it was used in DaVinci's Demons a couple of seasons ago. I figure if they had 'em in Renaissance Italy, no worries for Caleb. :)

 

I thought of that too. But of course, that show is a wee bit crazier than Turn. ;)

[Kabota]

OakGoblinFly, I love your post so freaking much. Every. Single. Point. 

 

If there is no renewal, the show will consist of 20 episodes, and audiences will still not understand what the Culper Ring brought to the  victory. The pace within episodes, like this one, has picked up, but the overall leisurely pace of the season and character arcs makes no sense to me.   

[ganesh]

Yes, let's bring DaVinci and baby Machiavelli on over to help out. *cut to all the ships in New York harbor exploding* And then everyone makes out. 

[HalcyonDays]

If there is no renewal, the show will consist of 20 episodes, and audiences will still not understand what the Culper Ring brought to the  victory.

 

That's the one major thing missing, you are dead right Kabota. The audience has absolutely no idea how important the Culper Ring ended up being for the Patriots and Washington himself. We have yet to really see how the information provided influenced GW's decisions, thereby allowing the Patriots to decisively win battles and turn the tide of the war.

 

We have two episodes left, so if the show doesn't get renewed, I doubt we'll really see any impact at all, except maybe the very end of the final episode.

[ecoffey]

I don't have high hopes for renewal so I'm trying to enjoy the episodes that are remaining. I hate that the show always has to get bogged down with soap opera antics. The soppy Andre-Peggy stuff I find really boring and incredibly unrealistic.The most interesting part of their scenes together was seeing the wheels turning in Andre's head after Peggy left and leaving the audience to wonder what he is scheming. A show on spies need to focus on smart people on both sides outwitting each other or getting outwitted. That's why I was happy to see Townsend. He's an interesting character who's really smart and seemed to be better at spying than all of them put together. But of course he's been AWOL the past several episodes. 

 

I also think the show is great at showing little details of era, such as Ben bowing to Hewlett after the prisoner exchange last season or Washington trying to hide his disgust when Lafayette kissed him on the cheeks (and then Washington enthusiastically kissing him at the reception). The show is much more interesting when they try to be historically accurate, instead of having Peggy with her shirt off in Andre's bedroom.

[EyewatchTV211]

TURN spent about 2 seasons on what is essentially backstory. The Culper Ring wasn't really operational until Townsend was able to supply information. For the writers, I think it gives them more leeway to write what they want, but it also leaves them unable to tell the real story. Plus, they find dumb ways to take us out of major battles, like Ben being ill during Washington crossing the Delaware.

 

If it's cancelled, they should do a one-shot miniseries about catching Benedict Arnold.

I'm fine with them skipping over the battles, because that isn't really the point of the show either. We don't need to see the war, we need to see the spying/strategy that led to the battle decisions. So when we missed the battle in Trenton after crossing of the Delaware, I wasn't super surprised or disappointed. I AM disappointed that we aren't seeing spying, either. At least not on the American side. I think we've had almost too much of Andre's spying and intelligence-gathering. While I like the actor and character, it is way too one-sided.

Edited May 29, 2015 by VMepicgrl