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Has anyone watched the show True Life Crime on MTV?  They examine/look at some 'popular' murders, but what I'm wondering is, what is the format...is it like the other hosted shows, where they basically present the crime-solving chronologically so we can try to solve it along with them, or is the killer already known and this is more of a deep-dive?

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I watched an episode last night of 20/20 or Dateline (never can keep track of which one it actually is) about the disappearance of Sabrina Aisenberg.  I've seen shows on the case before.  Mom wakes up and the garage and laundry room doors are open and the 5 month old baby is missing from her crib.  Police insist the parents killed her, they insist it was a kidnapping.  

Last nights show really opened up how absolutely determined the police were, at any cost (even to the point of framing!), to have the parents held responsible for her murder.  An absolute nightmare.  And then the interviewer had the nerve to ask the parents, "why get a lawyer if you are innocent"?  Are you kidding me?!

I lean towards the side of believing the parents.  That being said, I remember the criticism of the Mom in the television plea that the baby be returned.  Very cold, very calm.  Although, I can understand her explanation of being just totally in shock.  It's not that that bothers me.  It's that after the interview and after the parents were caught laughing with officers on tape, the Mom went completely overboard and would sob and wail in every subsequent public appearance.  That seemed fake!

There was just something unfortunately unlikeable about the couple.  But that doesn't make them guilty.  

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39 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

And then the interviewer had the nerve to ask the parents, "why get a lawyer if you are innocent"?  Are you kidding me?!

The whole “S/he lawyered up, s/he’s totes guilty” thing has always chapped my hide.

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3 hours ago, Kiki620 said:

And then the interviewer had the nerve to ask the parents, "why get a lawyer if you are innocent"?  Are you kidding me?!

It's a good question though.   If my baby was kidnapped I'd help them any way I could.  They have to clear immediate family first, and they may not like the questions but when family refuses to cooperate it stalls the investigation.  Big red flag.

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1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

It's a good question though.   If my baby was kidnapped I'd help them any way I could.  They have to clear immediate family first, and they may not like the questions but when family refuses to cooperate it stalls the investigation.  Big red flag.

Unfortunately, there are too many people who believe they are innocent so they don't need a lawyer and then find themselves as suspects. 

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4 hours ago, Razzberry said:

It's a good question though.   If my baby was kidnapped I'd help them any way I could.  They have to clear immediate family first, and they may not like the questions but when family refuses to cooperate it stalls the investigation.  Big red flag.

But getting a lawyer doesn't necessarily equate to not cooperating.  People can bring their lawyers into the interviewas a hedge against improper questioning.

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1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

But getting a lawyer doesn't necessarily equate to not cooperating.  People can bring their lawyers into the interviewas a hedge against improper questioning.

I didn't see the show in question,, so don't know if the couple did that.  Didn't sound like it, but I could be wrong.

I thought I'd seen everything on Ted Bundy, but Amazon Prime has a new series with a fresh perspective that centers around his girlfriend at the time and her daughter.  First time in 40 years she's spoken about their life together complete with kodak moments.

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I watched the Dateline episode "Abducted" and although I have seen several stories where someone befriends a pregnant woman so they can steal her baby, I had never seen one where a friend from childhood did it!  I was appalled.  This was her best friend (she lived out-of-town), and she abducted them, killing the woman and taking the baby (which was about 2 weeks old).  Then she had the nerve to call the woman's mother, when everyone was still looking for the woman (since she was missing), and express support/sorrow/etc.  

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On 1/31/2020 at 4:49 PM, geekgirl921 said:

Unfortunately, there are too many people who believe they are innocent so they don't need a lawyer and then find themselves as suspects. 

. . . or in jail.

My mindset has long changed from "If innocent why hire a lawyer?" to "Before I comment on that traffic violation, let me first call my lawyer."

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2 hours ago, MissAlmond said:

. . . or in jail.

My mindset has long changed from "If innocent why hire a lawyer?" to "Before I comment on that traffic violation, let me first call my lawyer."

When my son stared driving I told him if he ever found himself in  cop station the only thing you should say is "I'd like my attorney present".

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I find it kind of odd that there hasn’t been much discussion on the many Aaron Hernandez stories that have aired in the past month. Did I miss a forum topic? Anyway, I’ve sat through the Oxygen Channel one from two years ago, the ID 2-parter, and a random one on a little channel (Reelz? HLN?) called How It Really Happened. I feel like if they were all mashed together it would be an excellent complete story. Some focused on the police investigation & the surveillance footage, some looked at the gay angle, some at the CTE situation. I felt like a learned just a bit more with each special.

I’m thinking I should finish off with the Netflix series and rest comfortably knowing everything there is to know about this man and be done with it.

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6 minutes ago, Supagirl said:

I find it kind of odd that there hasn’t been much discussion on the many Aaron Hernandez stories that have aired in the past month. Did I miss a forum topic? Anyway, I’ve sat through the Oxygen Channel one from two years ago, the ID 2-parter, and a random one on a little channel (Reelz? HLN?) called How It Really Happened. I feel like if they were all mashed together it would be an excellent complete story. Some focused on the police investigation & the surveillance footage, some looked at the gay angle, some at the CTE situation. I felt like a learned just a bit more with each special.

I’m thinking I should finish off with the Netflix series and rest comfortably knowing everything there is to know about this man and be done with it.

I watched the Netflix one which sent me down a rabbit hole. I found a podcast it was based on  Gladiator and listened to that as well. I wasn’t completely aware of what all happened with him as this occurred during my true crime sabbatical (I was having babies and couldn’t deal with it). It’s my opinion that homeboy was definitely unhinged but probably would have been CTE or not.

Im a pro football fan (don’t follow college) so I got a kick upon finding out he, Tebow and Cam Newton were all on the Florida Gators at the same time. I’m a Panther fan. 

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8 minutes ago, Supagirl said:

I find it kind of odd that there hasn’t been much discussion on the many Aaron Hernandez stories that have aired in the past month. Did I miss a forum topic? Anyway, I’ve sat through the Oxygen Channel one from two years ago, the ID 2-parter, and a random one on a little channel (Reelz? HLN?) called How It Really Happened. I feel like if they were all mashed together it would be an excellent complete story. Some focused on the police investigation & the surveillance footage, some looked at the gay angle, some at the CTE situation. I felt like a learned just a bit more with each special.

I’m thinking I should finish off with the Netflix series and rest comfortably knowing everything there is to know about this man and be done with it.

The recent ID 2 parter/3 hours focused more on the crime and trial. I liked that one. 

The Netflix was just okay for me. The only new thing I learned was that he loved Harry Potter. 

Oh, both also confirmed my hatred towards his girlfriend. I just can’t stand her. 

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I’m thinking I should finish off with the Netflix series and rest comfortably knowing everything there is to know about this man and be done with it.

I would recommend watching it.  I thought it was well done.  

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It’s my opinion that homeboy was definitely unhinged but probably would have been CTE or not.

Agreed!

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Oh, both also confirmed my hatred towards his girlfriend. I just can’t stand her. 

Girlfriend was going to hang on tooth and nail for her payday, regardless of how bleak things were looking.  That was my biggest question after the Netflix series - did she end up with any money?  Was there anything left?  

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On 1/29/2020 at 7:27 PM, Razzberry said:

Yeah, the dad was one of the few people on that show I couldn't find fault with.  He was horrified by his .  I'm not sure I could love a psychopathic child or other family member  unconditionally. 

Kenda's last show tonight.  Maybe he'll finally reveal what happened to his nose.

What case was the one above where the son was out of control?

I finally did watch most of the Oxygen special on Hernandez.  I did learn some things.  Jose Baez, is really unbelievable. And, I don't mean that in a good way.  He kept saying that the two guys with Hernandez were bad, but, Hernandez wasn't.  And, why should we believe that Hernandez was in charge of the Lloyd murder....well, for starters, the multi-millionaire is likely calling the shots rather the other way around. I don't think there was any reason for Hernandez to serve those broke guys. So bizarre.  And, it didn't seem to bother Hernandez that these people had died. I do think he was a sociopath.  And, his fiance! OMG, all the pity talk, like she and her fiance were so oppressed, under siege by the press, stressed out, etc.  Of course, they were.  When you do that kind of wrong, there are consequences.   One thing that really stood out to me is how totally CLUELESS Hernandez and his buddies were in going about the murder of Odin Lloyd.  It's like they didn't think about the car rental records, tire tracks at murder scene, cell phone tracking, video cameras.........really pathetic. 

Ref. defendants talking when they get approached by the police... People have the right to remain silent, but, often not the ability.  lol Most people believe they are much more clever than they are. It gets them into trouble. 

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Okay, update...I watched the Netflix 3-parter on Aaron Hernandez and am now a certified expert.  Odd how only the Oxygen one gave any attention to the first girlfriend in Florida, who questioned his gayness and he confessed to her from jail in a letter.  Oxygen really went down the gay rabbit hole, with the interviews with the two dickhead shock jocks and the brassy loudmouthed reporter broad cracking jokes about his being a tight end, etc.  I really appreciated Baez and the other defense lawyer (whose name escapes me...the one who looks like a bald eagle) stating emphatically that they would not allow Aaron’s sexuality to be brought into the trial to be used as a reason for his anger and confusion. What bullshit.

8 hours ago, Kiki620 said:

Girlfriend was going to hang on tooth and nail for her payday, regardless of how bleak things were looking.  That was my biggest question after the Netflix series - did she end up with any money?  Was there anything left?  

OMG, right?  She made her deal with the devil, and goddamnit she was going to get paid.

Also, these knuckleheads and their loyalty oaths and rules of the Street. None of them would squeal on him, until Hernandez shot Alexander Bradley’s eye out. And even then he wouldn’t tell the Florida cops what happened. It was only when he couldn’t squeeze any extortion money out of Hernandez that he turned...and they still didn’t believe him.

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On 1/19/2020 at 8:34 AM, LuvMyShows said:

So that makes me wonder, IRL, how many women with children have actually run off to live a new life and not said goodbye, not told ANYONE, and especially not taken their ID or credit cards.  What actual factual occurrences are these detectives basing their lame-ass hunches on?

I read an article, probably a year ago now, about how "Mom ran off to start a new life" used to be the phrase used when women would commit suicide due to postpartum depression or psychosis. Suicide and mental illness were sins and failures and it was viewed better for the women to just run away because they weren't ready to be mothers. Some children discovered it when researching their family history.

It's absolutely absurd and I can't wrap my head around it, but can see how that could be true decades ago.

That article also discussed how women ran away from domestic violence because it wasn't illegal and they had no resources. Those laws aren't that old, either. 

Anytime now, though, it doesn't seem like it would be very many people. Papini ran off, and there was a woman who ran off to take part in one of those 99% rallys and decided to stay in another state, but those have to be exception and those people were found alive, just went missing.

On 1/20/2020 at 11:34 AM, Kiki620 said:

Lonely women/single Moms:  for the love of God, once and for all, he doesn't really work for the FBI!!!

That's why I only date Nigerian and Middle Eastern Princes, and bitcoin billionaires who need help finding their keys. 

On 1/26/2020 at 6:04 PM, auntjess said:

...or the CIA.

And I see the worst See No Evil.  Woman is being followed in car, calls grandmother, who was expecting her, to get help.
Grandma gets in car to find her.
Why in hell did neither victim or grandma call 911?
I erased at this point.

I didn't see the episode you mention but if it was where I live you wouldn't call 911 because we do not have a 24/7 police force and those calls go to the Highway Patrol and neighboring counties who take an hour to arrive. We also only got 911 about ten years ago after Obama signed funding for those counties like mine that couldn't afford the technology. I paid $5 a month tax on my phone bill for 15 years for the service that didn't exist. We're largely farm land with unpaved dirt roads and I can see getting in my car to go meet someone if they were close to me.

On 1/28/2020 at 4:01 AM, andromeda331 said:

Sure that makes complete sense. People totally commit suicides by stabbing themselves in the eye all the time. How did the genius detective explain the defensive wounds? The eye fought back? It amazes me how many of these idiots cops go on a TV show basically admitting how dumb they are and/or not bothering to do their jobs and no one thinks maybe these morons should be fired. How do they keep their jobs? 

I was on a grand jury in 2016 and heard about a case of self-enucleation. Her husband tried to help her, which resulted in her death, but it was the third attempt of trying to cut her eyes out.

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Self-enucleation also known as autoenucleation or oedipism is the self-inflicted enucleation (removal) of the eye. It is considered a form of self-mutilation and is normally caused by psychosis, paranoid delusions or drugs.[1] Between 1968 and 2018 there were more than 50 documented cases of "complete or partial self-enucleation in English medical journals".[2] According to a 2012 study published in the British Journal of Ophthalmology, self-enucleation may be "considered to be the result of psycho-sexual conflicts".[3] A particularly extreme form of self-mutilation, self-enucleations are rarely reported.

It's rare and probably have nothing to do with the case you mention, but it's horrifying and in our case, the medical examiner was clear that he sees it a few times a year down here in the middle of nowhere, and that is only people who die, not the ones who live, they are seen by psychiatrist.

What? You wanted to sleep tonight? 

 

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Oh, Aaron, I've finally been able to quit you. I haven't watched all the shows but did watch the Odin Lloyd murder trial and read through most every court document for both trials. That Oxygen show was produced by Jose Baez and his production company and was full of shit and lies. For starters, Baez showed up in the case weeks before trial and all the heavy lifting had been done by Aaron's previous attorneys. They were able to successfully get evidence excluded that would have made the case more detrimental, and were able to get the evidence IN that Bradley had a former shootout in a nightclub. Baez actually lost the right he had in the beginning to file papers without the local attorney signing off on it because they were attention seeking pleadings. He wasn't liked by anyone, including his co-counsel, because of his showboating.

That reporter making homophobic jokes is a crappy journalist and I was glad to see her taken to task even if it was by Baez. The prosecution wasn't exactly planning on introducing proof of Aaron's sexuality, though. His jailhouse lover had been selling articles where he was saying all kinds of things Aaron told him, and was pissed off because Aaron had promised to create a trust for him and didn't. Aaron like to claim he was starting trusts for people who helped him and never followed through, including to his cousin for her sons and she spent over a year in jail for contempt, even though she was given immunity, and was only released because the prosecutor said she has terminal breast cancer and refused to allow the jail access to her medical records meaning they couldn't treat her. Anyway, I digress. This case has that affect on me.

The prosecutor filed a document saying he wanted to call that man and it was after trial had began, so they had to request the judge allow them to amend their witness list. The question of why anyone should listen to him would likely bring up that they were sexual partners in jail and that is what the other defense attorney filed the objection over. It didn't seem likely they could introduce the evidence through him without that information being said so the prosecutor dropped it. That reporter was tipped off about an argument over Aaron's sexual orientation and she tried to call Shayanna and once the prosecutor learned it was leaked, he called Shayanna's attorney to give her the heads up and that attorney called Baez's partner to see what was going on. Baez didn't even have the balls to let her know it was coming. Obviously, the partner takes some of the heat for that decision, too, but there wasn't anything that pointed to him knowing about the reporter whereas Baez was contacted by the reporter. 

There is science proving that child abuse causes actual structural changes to the brain, along with the known psychological issues. Aaron was a victim of sexual abuse from about age five to ten, I think. That isn't spoken about much, in part because the people who cannot wait to talk about it are trashy, like the ex-girlfriend in Florida who leaked he had sex with men in the past. It doesn't excuse his actions but it is another injury to his brain.

The CTE is known now, and was suspected all along. His first documented concussion was around age thirteen, I think. It happened during a fight after a basketball game, and his brother was also injured. Since then, he had other sports related head impacts. 

What was revealed during Loyd's murder trial was his chronic use of marijuana and PCP. Yes, Angel Dust. When Baez claimed Aaron could not have been held liable for that murder if the CTE was disclosed is another flat out lie. There were long and in-depth mental health evaluations from the best psychiatrists money could buy and they all agreed he knew what he was doing was wrong, had the ability to not do it, and his paranoia was caused by the post concussion syndrome and drug use; all that evidence was introduced. All the money he had to spend on experts and couldn't get an opinion that he was legally incompetent or was operating under a psychosis or delusional disorder that affected his ability determine between right or wrong.

What they did say, however, including one of the State's experts, is that Aaron wasn't getting some perverse pleasure from killing but believed his was in danger of people telling on him for various things and decided their death was the best way to prevent it. 

Aaron's violence goes back to high school and he remains a suspect in other violent crimes. They will likely not close those cases just in case evidence shows others can be charged, too, like in some of the gang cases. With both Odin Loyd and the nightclub shootings, all the evidence showed that he lead the chain of events. The State could prove that Aaron was the only one who got out of the car with Loyd, was the one driving at all points in time, his own surveillance camera proves it, as does his text messages to all the parties. Not to mention he said something to them while in a bar with Odin about the nightclub shooting and how he decided Odin was talking to some other Islanders who knew what he did. The bartender called the Crime Stoppers hotline about it but the police got it the same time that Aaron was killing Odin. 

TL:DR - There is no reason he would throw his life away to cover for the other two. His brain was on fire from the CTE and he kept pouring gasoline on it in the form of drugs and no one who had the ability to force or cajole him into treatment did so. The Patriots fought like hell, and won, the right to keep Aaron's mental health evaluations private because it affected the way they evaluated players and they considered it proprietary. Aaron tore up the town in Florida and Urban Meyer made Tebow babysit him. It sad to see all the moments where an intervention could have changed to course of his life, but was not taken. Hindsight is 20/20 and it's obvious now, but I just cannot muster sympathy for anyone involved in his life except the victims, well, other than Bradley.

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Yeah, it was basically similar to that show "Twisted Sisters", only focusing on romantic relationships instead of familial ones.

But yes, what a horrifying outcome. When Tammi just fell silent for a time during her interview while recalling screaming for her little boy 😞 ...

And all because her cousin wanted the guy for herself. I just... Some people, I swear. 

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48 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, it was basically similar to that show "Twisted Sisters", only focusing on romantic relationships instead of familial ones.

But yes, what a horrifying outcome. When Tammi just fell silent for a time during her interview while recalling screaming for her little boy 😞 ...

And all because her cousin wanted the guy for herself. I just... Some people, I swear. 

Yes, I agreed with the friend who said, that's not love. If you love someone you don't want to cause them pain. Just gobsmacking!. I don't think I have ever heard of someone getting 999 years in jail!

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On 2/3/2020 at 8:44 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

What case was the one above where the son was out of control?

I think it was "Evil Lives Here" from a couple weeks ago.  Single father raises little psychopath.  The kid is caught strangling a cat and other disturbing acts,  therapists say he'll grow out of it, graduates to murder.

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43 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

I think it was "Evil Lives Here" from a couple weeks ago.  Single father raises little psychopath.  The kid is caught strangling a cat and other disturbing acts,  therapists say he'll grow out of it, graduates to murder.

Ok, thanks.  Just my thoughts. I'm half way through this episode, watching it On Demand and it's frozen. I'll try to finish it tomorrow.

So far, though...........I don't know what might cause a child to be that way, however, first of all, the father did NOT do all that he could early on. In fact, he did nothing. He just said he was confused, asked the child why and then threw his hands up in surrender.  When the child repeatedly left the house during the night, you  REALLY should address it. You have a sleep study done to see if he's sleep walking AND you get between the child and the door.  You put alarms on the bed, door, windows and sleep on the floor between you and the child.  All things halt until the matter is resolved. It's not a wait and see thing. And, if the child was regularly doing that, then why was he surprised when the police officer called him one morning?  Seems fishy to me.  

Also, I don't believe that the child wasn't diagnosed with something like Oppositional Defiance Disorder.  Several different types of therapies are recommended. Here's a link:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/oppositional-defiant-disorder

I didn't hear him talk about any therapies the son was involved with.  And, with all the issues, a therapist is not going to say nothing is wrong, it'll get better, etc. I don't buy it.  In my practice, I deal with lots of families who have issue with children and the professionals don't say stuff like that when a child is acting out, hurting, leaving home or hurting others.  It's called high risks children and they are given lots of attention and therapy. 

Also, I have heard professionals describe what  parents have to do to address violence and.or serious misbehavior with a child.  Their world has to stop until they get on board and comply with acceptable behavior.  So, their room is stripped but all but a bed and lamp.  They are allowed no privileges until they comply...no toys, no books, no phone, no play, etc.  It's school, basic meals, no treats, their room and sleep until they fully understand the severity of the situation.  I didn't see any kind of consequences that son got for his behavior.  So, I'm not surprised at how he kept escalating.  Maybe, it wouldn't have made any difference. I guess we'll never know about that.   .....oh well, hope to finish the episode tomorrow.   I dread seeing what's to come, since this man was executed:(

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I completely disagree about the dad.  When you have a young child that is having problems it is very hard to make a decision to intervene at first because you don't want to make the problem worse by getting others involved, labeling the child, etc. You try to figure things out yourself and you are working from the point of view of someone who hasn't seen the end yet. We can see what happened in the end, but the parent can't see that or know that. It is very easy to judge but when you're in the position it is very difficult and you don't want to make the wrong decision. Nevertheless, he took his son to multiple professionals who waived the problems away and said he was fine, he'd grow out of it, etc. What the hell else is he supposed to have done?  Again, he is working from the 'before' perspective, not the 'after' perspective every one has now that we know the full and final result of it all. I think he was trying very hard to deal with a situation that had to be difficult, exhausting, terrifying, and hopeless to him. And I don't blame him for his son's eventual crimes. The son was a sociopath. You can't cure that, and it can't be diagnosed properly in youth so even if it was 'recognized', again, what are you supposed to do? Lock a child up for life just in case he commits crimes later in life? 

This is an example of a terrible situation and there are no winners and the guilty party in this is the son, not the father who tried his son's whole life to make a difference and get him help. I can't place any blame on that man at all. I feel terrible for him.

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On 2/2/2020 at 3:30 PM, Supagirl said:

I find it kind of odd that there hasn’t been much discussion on the many Aaron Hernandez stories that have aired in the past month.

I think they were a lead-up to Super Bowl, because I saw other football-themed murders.
What was really surprising, was that Air Disasters showed several of the sports-team plane crashes, though I don't think they've done an American football one yet.

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Joyce Mitchell also known at Tillie has been released from prison. She was the Danna Mora worker ho helped the prisoners escape. Now, Tillie,it's time to start paying your fines (which I heard exceed $100,00.

 

Details  to follow.

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On 2/6/2020 at 1:04 PM, One Tough Cookie said:

Tillie is back

"It was unclear where Mitchell, 55, went following her release, but her long-suffering husband, Lyle, has said he wanted “her home where she belongs.”  😲

Edited by Razzberry
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On 2/4/2020 at 4:54 PM, Annber03 said:

But yes, what a horrifying outcome. When Tammi just fell silent for a time during her interview while recalling screaming for her little boy 😞 ... 

I just watched The Hand That Rocks The Cradle episode of Twisted Love discussed above, and it was a story I was not familiar with previously, which was great.

The families' actions during their talking heads hit ever single tally mark on the "guilty, lying, psychopath" scorecard used by internet sleuths who discuss true crime. I happen to be one of those people, but really try not to judge guilt on actions of people in the mist of torment. I was accused of not acting right when my father died at age fourteen, because I attended school a week later. It wasn't even real to me at that point, and only three days were excused!

It's really one of the reasons I cannot handle Webslueths. Part of the problem with that site is that they can only discuss things that are on mainstream media or an official FB account, and when those are controlled by the murderer or murderers' families, like with Powell, there was no legitimate info being provided. So, they end up discussing things like how the family members are acting and turn into the witchhunt they are trying to not be.

That woman who was murdered and had her baby stolen by a friend was being discussed on WS and the husband was being torn apart for every little thing when the police had already received surveillance video from a neighbor showing she was picked up by said friend and she was suspect number one. I don't blame the WBers so much, they want to discuss the cases and are limited on what can be revealed, but if they had looked at the FB accounts of her friends, they would have seen how the friend was pregnant at the same time and suddenly had a baby without announcing she was heading to the hospital, so they they were left with interviews of the husband to dissect.

That step-monster who likely killed her stepson in Colorado last week is another case where her news interview was like a beacon of "I'm guilty!!! And also a shitty human being who likes to turn all attention back on myself and how mean people are being to me!! You all will owe me an apology when Gannon (Staunch) returns!!! Oh, a neighbor has surveillance video of me lying about the time line, leaving with Gannon and returning alone? I refuse to talk to anyone anymore because everyone is being mean to me!!!!"

 I haven't looked on WS but I'm sure that case is being discussed and they will likely have any assertions of fault directed towards her confirmed. At minimum, she lied to the police and her husband and is a shitty person, so even if she isn't a killer, she's still scum. 

Turning back to Twisted Love, the family was a bit overboard when discussing the case. With the mother going silent, looking up with no tears, and the cousin(?) holding up the photo of the young boy and kind of exclaiming how his life was cut so short, came across as a bit over-the-top. I'm not sure the cousin doesn't suffer from some palsy or MS because of the way he was speaking and it may not have come across as OTT to me if I knew about it. It was clear why the story was told mostly from the LEO and the female cousin who were clearer speakers.

The mom also failed a polygraph.  If she didn't take the polygraph she is judged guilty, if she passed the polygraph it would mean nothing because guilty people pass them, and when she failed she is judged guilty. No way to win, do not take polygraphs people!

And all over a man who likely wasn't worth having in the first, second or tenth place.

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On 2/3/2020 at 11:44 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

 

Ref. defendants talking when they get approached by the police... People have the right to remain silent, but, often not the ability.  lol Most people believe they are much more clever than they are. It gets them into trouble. 

A cop came to my door years ago to ask my father-in-law about a long ago stolen gun that had turned up many states away.   My FIL was crippled and had to walk in very slowly from out in the garage. I told the cop he was coming but slowly and then just had the worst case of verbal diarrhea. Why I was dog sitting, where my parents went on vacay, where they where eating and staying, my kids were at school, ages, grades, etc. I just couldn’t stop. I was so nervous about a cop in my house. 

So, basically, I hold no hopes of me ever being silent until an attorney arrives. 

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On 2/5/2020 at 12:00 AM, Andyourlittledog2 said:

I completely disagree about the dad.  When you have a young child that is having problems it is very hard to make a decision to intervene at first because you don't want to make the problem worse by getting others involved, labeling the child, etc. You try to figure things out yourself and you are working from the point of view of someone who hasn't seen the end yet. We can see what happened in the end, but the parent can't see that or know that. It is very easy to judge but when you're in the position it is very difficult and you don't want to make the wrong decision. Nevertheless, he took his son to multiple professionals who waived the problems away and said he was fine, he'd grow out of it, etc. What the hell else is he supposed to have done?  Again, he is working from the 'before' perspective, not the 'after' perspective every one has now that we know the full and final result of it all. I think he was trying very hard to deal with a situation that had to be difficult, exhausting, terrifying, and hopeless to him. And I don't blame him for his son's eventual crimes. The son was a sociopath. You can't cure that, and it can't be diagnosed properly in youth so even if it was 'recognized', again, what are you supposed to do? Lock a child up for life just in case he commits crimes later in life? 

This is an example of a terrible situation and there are no winners and the guilty party in this is the son, not the father who tried his son's whole life to make a difference and get him help. I can't place any blame on that man at all. I feel terrible for him.

When his child strangled a cat, to me that was not a wait and see thing. I’m not saying anyone can prevent someone from committing a crime, but the dad kept acting like he did all he could, but I didn’t see anything he did in the home to address the behaviors early on.

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Speaking of "Evil Lives Here", another psychopath raised and let loose on the public in tonight's episode by a mom in denial who "didn't want to think" her son could be guilty of killing that girl.  She did turn him into the cops when he was stealing stuff, but I think there's more to the story than she's saying.

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9 hours ago, Razzberry said:

Speaking of "Evil Lives Here", another psychopath raised and let loose on the public in tonight's episode by a mom in denial who "didn't want to think" her son could be guilty of killing that girl.  She did turn him into the cops when he was stealing stuff, but I think there's more to the story than she's saying.

I think she was pretty tough. She was certainly tougher than a lot of the parents on this show. She continually called the cops on him. She didn't want to believe that he had killed her but really what parent does? She is doing what she can to make sure he never gets out of prison. 

Also, I don't think it was any kind of idea that he was some angel and it couldn't possibly be him. She knew he was trouble, she just didn't want to believe he had gone that far .

Edited by geekgirl921 · Reason: more to add
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23 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

I think she was pretty tough. She was certainly tougher than a lot of the parents on this show. She continually called the cops on him. She didn't want to believe that he had killed her but really what parent does? She is doing what she can to make sure he never gets out of prison. 

Also, I don't think it was any kind of idea that he was some angel and it couldn't possibly be him. She knew he was trouble, she just didn't want to believe he had gone that far .

I also think we tend to be too hard on these parents. There are really no resources for them to turn to for help. The show isn't going to show every instant of the parent disciplining their kid, that would be boring so they just give a taste of it. Also, I wonder how much discipline and consequences matter to a sociopath or psychopath. They generally don't feel guilt so I would think "getting in trouble" wouldn't do much to deter them.

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5 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

I also think we tend to be too hard on these parents. There are really no resources for them to turn to for help. 

This. And even when there are resources, some of them aren't cheap. Getting adequate and affordable mental healthcare is not an easy thing for a lot of people in this country, after all. 

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On 2/10/2020 at 10:14 AM, geekgirl921 said:
On 2/10/2020 at 2:12 AM, Razzberry said:

Speaking of "Evil Lives Here", another psychopath raised and let loose on the public in tonight's episode by a mom in denial who "didn't want to think" her son could be guilty of killing that girl.  She did turn him into the cops when he was stealing stuff, but I think there's more to the story than she's saying.

I think she was pretty tough. She was certainly tougher than a lot of the parents on this show. She continually called the cops on him. She didn't want to believe that he had killed her but really what parent does? She is doing what she can to make sure he never gets out of prison. 

Also, I don't think it was any kind of idea that he was some angel and it couldn't possibly be him. She knew he was trouble, she just didn't want to believe he had gone that far .

True, she did seem pretty tough and under no illusions about his mindset.  I can't remember if he was a diagnosed psychopath and born that way, or what.  Now that I think about it, he probably was, and there's nothing she could have done to change it.   

I just get cynical because it's natural to paint yourself in the best light on national television.  I never hear parents saying  "Yeah, I spoiled him rotten and gave in to his tantrums because it was easier.  I didn't want him to suffer any consequences and refused to hear any criticism. "

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Hometown Homicide—

My description said it was supposed to be about the Hannah Graham case. So they start out talking about the nearby case of Alexis Murphy and after like 10 minutes, I’m wondering if they’re going to start to talk about Hannah. But nope, they never did. 

Hoping one day Alexis’ family gets her body back so they can lay her to rest. 

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Good grief, more law enforcement incompetence  On Fatal Vows, it was the story of Cotton and Shorty, who were married.  Shorty went missing and the authorities got a search warrant for the house they had been living in.  In the yard, the detectives saw a small mound of dirt, and Cotton told them that their dog had died and she had buried it in the yard.  One of the detectives really thought they should look closer at it, but the police chief said no, we're there to check the house, not to dig up dogs.  Guess what, or rather, who, it turns out was buried under that mound?  Apparently it was thought that the mound was too small to be from a human burial, so they just didn't bother.  Good grief indeed.

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On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 5:47 PM, Razzberry said:

True, she did seem pretty tough and under no illusions about his mindset.  I can't remember if he was a diagnosed psychopath and born that way, or what.  Now that I think about it, he probably was, and there's nothing she could have done to change it. 

I just get cynical because it's natural to paint yourself in the best light on national television.  I never hear parents saying  "Yeah, I spoiled him rotten and gave in to his tantrums because it was easier.  I didn't want him to suffer any consequences and refused to hear any criticism. "

When she acted disappointed and said "he's too stupid to be a criminal" when he admitted what he did on the phone in jail, I knew that he heard how stupid he was frequently.

Personally I don't think you can create a psychopath, but you can certainly help one along.
 

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After all the crappy detective work, it's nice to see something good.  On the recent Stranger Among Us episode called "Homicide on the Rails", the detectives had to really immerse themselves into learning about the underworld of people who hop trains.  They just kept at it, and their persistence paid off and they solved the murder.  I felt bad for the young guy who was murdered, and for his family.  He clearly had such a naive romanticized view of what it meant to ride the rails, and I don't know if the family bought into that as well, or if they knew better.  But either way, if the mom had tried to forbid him, he probably would have done it anyway.

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I just saw an ep of 48 Hours on ID this morning that made me stabby.  Obsessive boyfriend abuses teen girlfriend.  His name was Adam - last name was odd.  Can't remember the girl's name.  He cuts her with a knife, tries to set her on fire - just messed up stuff.

And of course, his mother is all "He was fine until she came along.  I told him he was going to end up in jail because of her".  She claimed his 30 year sentence was "too harsh".  I couldn't roll my eyes any harder.

Edited by funky-rat · Reason: Wrong show
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I just watched last Tuesday's episode of Body Cam, and one of the cases took place here in Spokane. I couldn't wait to hear what a light sentence the guy got (we are notorious for having a "revolving door" jail). Sure enough, the guy has 3 warrants, is charged with car theft and resisting arrest and whatever else and gets...four days in jail.

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There was a story like that on that "Lake Erie Murders" series tonight as well. This guy had raped and murdered four young women, and when he was caught, it was revealed that he'd been in and out of institutions since the age of eight, and he committed his first of multiple crimes at the age of fourteen. And as he got older, the crimes got more and more violent. We're talking sexual assaults and things of that sort. 

Yet somehow, he still kept getting paroled despite all of this, and next thing you know, he's become not just a serial rapist, but a serial killer. He finally got life in prison for those four murders, but it's hard not to feel like it's far too little far too late. 

On an equally depressing note, I just watched the In Memoriam documentary that recently aired on the ID channel. It focuses on three of the many mass shootings that have occurred in this country in the last few years: Las Vegas, Parkland, and Sutherland Springs, and there's interviews with survivors and rescuers.

It'll definitely bring tears to your eyes, and if anyone does watch it, fair warning that there's cell phone footage from people who were witness to the Las Vegas and Parkland shootings, and many of the survivors' and rescuers' stories about what they saw are graphic. 

But honestly, it is still worth watching because the stories themselves are very powerful and moving. I'll leave it at that, 'cause politics and all, but...yeah. 

Edited by Annber03
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I started to watch, "A Murder in Mansfield" last night.  Got a little bored so I will have to watch the rest of it.  But in just looking it up, the documentary was from back in 2017 so I probably missed the original discussion.  

I was so saddened by how no family members, no one at all really, stepped in to take Collier.  Heartbreaking.  The principal and her husband really only wanted his sister, but then it's sad in its' own right how she won't connect with him, even as an adult.  Makes me wonder how much her adopted family had to do with that?  I did feel better after seeing his warm connection to the detective's family and then also that he ended up with what sounded to be a wonderful adoptive family.  

When he read from his diary about no one wanting him, it was painful.

On a very snarky note, I probably wouldn't have been able to be in the same room with him as a 12 year old.  Luckily, his adoptive Mom didn't feel the same way...."we just let Collier be Collier".  God bless her.  

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53 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

A Murder in Mansfield

I saw that a few months ago.  It was good to see a kid who never believed the murdering parent.  Even a kid knows you don't bury a body in the basement if it was an "accident" or "self-defense".  Collier even wrote to him prison asking why he killed mommy. Judging by his reply it must have enraged the psycho (who is up for parole this year). He really let the mask slip.

"I am guilty of no crime against your mother. Your poisonous “communication" is more aptly the product of some nearby cesspool… You are imbued with hate… you unctuous brat! You shameful coward! You are truly evil! We, therefore, no longer consider you a member of our family."

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On 2/11/2020 at 6:14 PM, Annber03 said:

This. And even when there are resources, some of them aren't cheap. Getting adequate and affordable mental healthcare is not an easy thing for a lot of people in this country, after all. 

There is a really good documentary that addresses this issue, it's called "Dangerous Son". I think I watched it on either Netflix or Amazon.

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