General True Crime Shows

[SunnyBeBe]

Okay. It's time to hang it up when the police department does the following: During their investigation of the brutal beating (attempted murder) of a young teenager inside her home, they fail to look at the name of a man who had been regularly visiting with her while she was at her job at the mall.  His NAME and phone number were in her phone contacts! They were looking at all the men in her life, but, didn't check her male contacts in her phone! (If they had looked, they would found that he had a prior allegation of rape by another woman!)   They found this out, years later, after her memory returns and she gives police his name. So, the girl solved her own case.  She had amnesia at first due to the massive head trauma. THEN, after they match his DNA (from blood drop he left on at scene fleeing) to the attacker and prepare for trial, (of course, he denies it.)  they have LOST the evidence, like the shovel he beat her with!  Other items lost too.  Thankfully, he takes a plea. Gets 18 years, but, doesn't admit guilt.  The survivor's story is quite inspiring.

https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/tv-shows/on-the-case-with-paula-zahn/full-episodes/no-goodbyes

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dad-facing-prison-time-shovel-attack/story?id=55902737

Any chance Paula Zahn will retire soon? Man, I can dream, I guess. lol 

Edited December 2, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[punkypower]

Hi everyone!!!

I used to be really active two years ago, but fell off PTV for some reason. MISSED Y'ALL!!!

Just read/reread through all 139 pages!

A couple thoughts:

1..In the case of Rebecca Zazou, I completely think she was murdered. I have to add I'm a bit grossed out by her sister and family. They wound up settling with Shaknai for $600k. First, you're basically saying 1. He didn't kill her 2. She committed suicide. (I always thought money was more important to them, as I remember in the original lawsuit, they included an extra provision for a couple hundred grand bc Rebecca "was the means of out financial support") https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Settlement-in-Rebecca-Zahau-Civil-Case-San-Diego-Spreckles-Mansion-505423701.html%3famp=y

2. In doing A LOT of googling while catching up on the thread, I would occasionally mistakenly come up on OTHER murders instead. Two stood out to me that I had never heard about and never saw on a program or this thread.

A.

Sheila Evans-no words. The actual murderer has been executed. I can't believe the evil of the mother. Natural death was too good for this bitch. Warning, I know some of you guys can't look at violence against children.

https://www.crimeonline.com/2017/07/27/child-killer-who-raped-toddler-girl-with-help-from-her-own-mother-cries-out-for-forgiveness-before-execution/

B. Deanna Cook. Was killed by ex-husband. There was an ELEVEN minute 911 call where he's literally choking her, she falls out of consciousness, comes back, he chokes her again until he kills her. The 911 dispatcher was unbelievable..I hope she rots and hears Deanna every second of every day... and then it took police AN HOUR to get there..AFTER her family beat them to it!! Here's about 5 minutes of the call played when her Mama was on the stand in the trial. God bless her Mother and I hope she can find some peace. (it goes without saying, but WARNING: GRAPHIC: 

Edited December 3, 2019 by punkypower
Grammar is important.

[Razzberry]

On 12/2/2019 at 11:36 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Any chance Paula Zahn will retire soon? Man, I can dream, I guess. lol 

I think she did retire, and they just play back old footage of her questions because they're always the same.  She's so robotic.

"What went through your mind when you heard your daughter was so brutally murdered?"

[KellsBells]

12 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I think she did retire, and they just play back old footage of her questions because they're always the same.  She's so robotic.

"What went through your mind when you heard your daughter was so brutally murdered?"

Hi Everyone -- haven't been around in a while, crazy life, but I had to hop on here to talk the latest Paula Zahn episode, and wouldn't ya know she's the topic of the last couple of comments here. I don't hate her, but I don't think her show is as interesting as some, I basically put it on to have something to sort of watch while I clean. However, on Sunday's episode, Mystery in Indio, them talking about the husband caught my attention, they were making him out to be such a bad guy, drug addict, moocher, etc. Then they said he had died before the case was solved, so, out of curiosity, I did a quick google to see if I could find his obit. Wow, the disconnect of how he was portrayed on the show, and his actual life and accomplishments as detailed in his obit are not even close. I mean, he may have at one time been a drug addict (or not), but they left a hell of a lot out of his bio. He may even have been her killer, but I think if I were his family I'd sue the show for defamation. I can't believe they were allowed to portray him as strictly evil without anyone giving the other side. Here's the obit if you're interested: https://obituaries.desertsun.com/obituaries/thedesertsun/obituary.aspx?n=william-i-hillman-bill&pid=173292325

Edited December 5, 2019 by KellsBells
clarity

[SunnyBeBe]

As much as I would like to believe that Paula Zahn has retired, I can't.  On The Case With Paula Zahn is airing new episodes right now.  The date for the next season's episode has not yet been announced:(

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Case_with_Paula_Zahn

[LuvMyShows]

Watched the first episode of Homicide City - Charlotte and there was something weird at the end.  Part of the solving of the case was the information that one of the perps gave.  I think his name was Akil, and he blamed the actual shooting as well as all the planning/directing, on this guy named KB.  The episode didn't show an interview with KB.  At the end, the words showing on the screen about their sentencing, said KB got something like 20 years for second degree murder, and then Akil got life in prison for a bunch of charges.  That was the complete opposite perspective that the show left us with after Akil's interview, so I really wonder what was left out.

[One Tough Cookie]

Paula Zahn and Tameron Hall both put  me to sleep. Hall mumbles and Zahn emphasizes every other word trying to be compassionate.  Two of my least favorite shows.

[sskrill]

Shattered - Grant Hardin.  Yet another wife "Oh, he couldn't have done this."

Murdered his ex-coworker - the victims blood splatter was found on Grant's car.  Once he was convicted and his DNA was submitted to CODIS, lo and behold it matches a rape from years ago (of a fellow officers wife).

"Oh, he couldn't have done that, he went to church every Sunday."  And yet the rape happened right across the street from his parents church.

He pleaded guilty to both charges - and apologized to the rape victim in the courtroom.  

And she STILL had trouble believing it was him.

I think maybe I just need to take a break from all these shows ... 

[Annber03]

Speaking of "Shattered", this week's episode about that hostage situation at that electronics store was intense as hell. I don't think I let out a breath the entire episode. What a frightening story. 

[SunnyBeBe]

14 hours ago, One Tough Cookie said:

Paula Zahn and Tameron Hall both put  me to sleep. Hall mumbles and Zahn emphasizes every other word trying to be compassionate.  Two of my least favorite shows.

Oh yes.  Is the field so bare that these two women stay in the forefront?  And the Delong lady, (former FBI profiler)?  I just don't get it. I have no idea what that commercial is saying with DeLong and another young lady who looks like a younger version of her.   With Zahn, it's as if someone once told her to put emphasis on certain words in a paragraph. And she does it E V E R Y single time.  It's so annoying.  I can't believe that a boss, producer, director, etc. wouldn't tell her to knock it off.  

I missed Homicide City Charlotte, but, will try to catch it later, as it's in my home state. I think it's odd they picked Charlotte as a homicide city of NC, because, Durham is the real capital city of murder.  It's gotten ridiculous.  I'm even scared to drive to my doctors at Duke anymore. I'm not kidding.  I guess the detective is the reason for picking Charlotte though. He seems like a pretty good guy. 

Did anyone catch the story about the homicidal professional skateboarder in CA?  He brutally raped and murdered a girl for no reason, except that he was angry with his ex-girlfriend. He secretly had an obsession with torture and murder.  One of the people narrating was his a best friend and MINISTER to this killer.  He still has faith in him and hopes to help him rehab when he gets out of prison! He will have served minimum sentence in 2023.  

[Jeeves]

On 12/5/2019 at 10:17 PM, sskrill said:

I think maybe I just need to take a break from all these shows ... 

I've done that. Not from all true crime shows, but most of them, most of the time.

Not, let's be clear, that I ever watched Paula Zahn anyway. Ugh. The descriptions here of her faux dramatic speaking style are so funny, and so right on!

[SunnyBeBe]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:05 AM, Jeeves said:

I've done that. Not from all true crime shows, but most of them, most of the time.

Not, let's be clear, that I ever watched Paula Zahn anyway. Ugh. The descriptions here of her faux dramatic speaking style are so funny, and so right on!

I am seriously thinking about taking a break.  I'm thinking about only keeping internet service (giving up cable) and watching tv by Amazon, Netflix, etc.  So, so I'll be leaving TLC, Bravo and ID Discovery, which are my primary channels. I will be able to watch major network still with an antenna.  In a way....it'll be a relief. lol  I'll come by to read about things though. lol

[Shriekingeel]

The new Evil Lives Here had me smh, like that show always does, and why I usually avoid it. “My precious darling boy didn’t get the ‘help’ he needed, and that’s why he slaughtered those two women convenience store clerks and laughed about it. I still love him blah blah blah”. 

Honey, you and Junior should have both been tossed into active volcanos long ago.  

[Christina]

On 12/1/2019 at 9:20 PM, funky-rat said:

I wasn't really familiar with the Elisa Lam case.  Everytime I tried to look into it, I was overwhelmed with people yakking about The Elevator Game, and it got really old, and I gave up.  So I watched the HLN show, which leaned fairly heavily toward her being murdered (and tried to explain away the LAPD stance that she was having psych issues and this was an accident), so after watching, I did some digging.  

Thank you for posting a review. I'm really glad I skipped it. The Lam family believes she was in a mental health crisis and have no problem with the investigation. They did sue the hotel and lost, because they couldn't prove there was any security issues that allowed a person in a manic phase to let herself onto the roof and into the water tank. 

All of the online chatter turned stupid. She was murdered, she was possessed, she couldn't have possibly be in a manic phase and been able to utilize an elevator or lift the lid on the water tank. Her family felt like she was disrespected in her death, and I absolutely agree with them. There was really nothing more to her case then a woman in a mental health crisis who didn't recognize it and ended up harming herself. 

The Cecil Hotel not realizing she was in the water tank after all the complaints is a story. The video of the hotel elevator being manipulated before release to the public is a story, probably not a valid complaint, but still a story. A young woman being possessed by evil spirits or murdered by drowning in a watertank without having any physical markings, not a story. People grasped any little thing to create a ridiculous story, just like how these parents and wives cling onto anything to keep believing their sons/husbands are innocent. 

[Christina]

There have been many times that I understand how the victim's personal life becomes necessary to tell the story, but so many times it seems like it is just to add something salacious to an otherwise open and shut case. I've burned out on so many of these shows for that reason. A two hour Dateline is almost guaranteed to have the first hour talking about people that were ruled out as suspects immediately, but we don't learn it until they are discussed and any little negative thing about them is revealed. A lot of times the culprit is known and arrested on day two, ffs. It's gotten exhausting.

Changing gears, I've finally gotten to see all of the Paul Holes' episodes. They are on my NBC app. I was so happy to see he was covering the murder of Oakley Kite, Jr., because it's one of the cases that I don't think gets nearly enough attention when some cases have been covered by every single show, Youtube channel, and true crime blog out there. 

I was disappointed that he didn't cover, or even comment, on the other cases most likely committed by the same killer. There are actually video clips that show him in profile on one of those cases. The ATM card was something done in at least two others, and he went to the ATM, returned to the home and finished torturing the homeowner to death. It was considered the psychological torment about making them fear if they didn't give him the right password and giving them hope of the abuse ending after they had already wanted death. The killer is not going to stop anytime soon willingly. 

He also used slight accents in other cases, sometimes reported as fake accents, and Hole's show was the first time that I think I heard it was determined to be Romanian. It was always reported as a "slight Eastern European" accent. I'm pretty sure the FBI had already determined he was part of the Bosnian Serbian war and was likely a torturer, but the show made it sound like it was a new finding, which I found a bit disappointing. I'm not sure why, though. He has given credit to other police agencies before, like when the case he determined to be a likely serial killer was using the toothpaste as a replacement for his impotence as determined by one of the other LEA's research, so it coming across as something new found by their team bugged me. I'm going to chalk it up to editing, though, because it looks like the original airing was longer than the one on the app, and I like him.

Some of the families of the other victims may have not wanted to take part, because of the imperfect lives lead by the victims and subsequent trash talk from the little bit of coverage that did exist. There is also a bit of a conspiracy theory that the FBI has determined a very short list of suspects that meet the criteria of having been part of the Bosnian Serbian War but are unable to confirm any of them. With the little bit of DNA found, I would think they would be picking through garbage for something to compare. The conspiracy ends with the killer realizing they are looking into him and returning back to his home country. Another version of the conspiracy is that the US has hired him for his skills.

There are also two similar cases in England. It may not be the same guy but the similarities are uncanny if he is not. I'm sure Holes will be getting another season and I'll continue to watch him. I really hope they are able to find Oakley's killer. He's a sadistic piece of shit and doesn't deserve to be free. 

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[SunnyBeBe]

Someone posted recently about how oversaturated they were with the NXIVM story.  I wasn't that familiar with it, so, I did watch that recent documentary on ID about the lost women from that group.   OMG, it was bizarre. I was left with a few major questions.  First, is the pregnant woman who went missing really alive and did she fake her death or was she murdered?  And, how can they still call this Raniere guy mesmerizing and keep a straight face?  It's really laughable. The guy has the charisma of a sloth.  He's quite dorky and unassuming.  I never could figure out what about him that was appealing to these women.  

https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/tv-shows/lost-women-of-nxivm/

Edited December 11, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[funky-rat]

On 12/9/2019 at 11:32 PM, Christina said:

Thank you for posting a review. I'm really glad I skipped it. The Lam family believes she was in a mental health crisis and have no problem with the investigation. They did sue the hotel and lost, because they couldn't prove there was any security issues that allowed a person in a manic phase to let herself onto the roof and into the water tank. 

All of the online chatter turned stupid. She was murdered, she was possessed, she couldn't have possibly be in a manic phase and been able to utilize an elevator or lift the lid on the water tank. Her family felt like she was disrespected in her death, and I absolutely agree with them. There was really nothing more to her case then a woman in a mental health crisis who didn't recognize it and ended up harming herself. 

The Cecil Hotel not realizing she was in the water tank after all the complaints is a story. The video of the hotel elevator being manipulated before release to the public is a story, probably not a valid complaint, but still a story. A young woman being possessed by evil spirits or murdered by drowning in a watertank without having any physical markings, not a story. People grasped any little thing to create a ridiculous story, just like how these parents and wives cling onto anything to keep believing their sons/husbands are innocent. 

Part of the problem is that there is so much misinformation out there that's been debunked many times, but people don't hear it, or don't want to hear it.  Things like there was no way for her to get up to the roof without tripping an alarm, when there were 2 or 3 fire escapes with no alarm (dogs tracked her scent to a window that exits on to a fire escape), and that blood pooling in her "bottom" was proof she was assaulted (when it was actually from her being in one position for so long).  People insist that the hatch was closed on the tank (and that's proof it's murder because she couldn't have closed it), when it's well documented that the hatch was open, or that the hatch was extremely heavy and she couldn't have opened it, when it really only weighed in the 20 pound range.  They said she couldn't get in the tank, but again, it's documented that there were ladders, and there was a ladder to the roof next to the tanks where she could easily jump down (plus there was a sandy-like substance on her clothing, and the roof was covered with a sandy/gravelly substance).  Plus some ludicrous comments that she was wearing men's shorts, so that's proof that she was with someone.

I had no clue about her being in a hostel-type room and the roommates asking for her to be removed because the show did not mention it whatsoever.  They also didn't mention her blog, and how she talked about how she wasn't doing well at school, and had only completed 2-3 classes in like 3 years.  They didn't mention that her toxicology showed she hadn't taken some of her meds.  And they said her cell phone was "missing" and made it sound like someone stole it, when she mentioned on her blog that she lost it at a bar.  One-sided shows like this just fuel the conspiracy theories.

[One Tough Cookie]

Help me out, please.  I have FIOS and saw a commercial for Court TV.  Does anyone know what channel it is?

[smittykins]

Can’t help you as I have DirecTV, but it is available on the free Pluto TV app.

[sskrill]

On 12/12/2019 at 5:01 PM, One Tough Cookie said:

Help me out, please.  I have FIOS and saw a commercial for Court TV.  Does anyone know what channel it is?

Google says 186?

[LuvMyShows]

More detective idiocy, or editing timeline shenanigans.  I believe it was the most recent Paula Zahn episode, where the husband went to the drug store at 2 am and was murdered outside the house when he came back.  The receipt had two items -- a prescription (Tagamet?) and a box of Midol.  The only two working theories the detectives had were that someone followed him home from the drugstore to kill him or that it was related to his classified government work (I think I have the second theory right).  They didn't even change their theories once they found out that the marriage was in trouble.  However, I assume that all of us are immediately able to come up with the third theory -- ambush -- especially upon seeing the Midol on the receipt.  Surprise, surprise...it was an ambush orchestrated by the wife.

[Christina]

On 12/11/2019 at 9:44 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Someone posted recently about how oversaturated they were with the NXIVM story.  I wasn't that familiar with it, so, I did watch that recent documentary on ID about the lost women from that group.   OMG, it was bizarre. I was left with a few major questions.  First, is the pregnant woman who went missing really alive and did she fake her death or was she murdered?  And, how can they still call this Raniere guy mesmerizing and keep a straight face?  It's really laughable. The guy has the charisma of a sloth.  He's quite dorky and unassuming.  I never could figure out what about him that was appealing to these women.  

https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/tv-shows/lost-women-of-nxivm/

That was me but you said it much more concisely. Glad to hear it was worth skipping. When Sarah Edmonson first started telling her story, she pointed out every red flag she disregarded, every thing she saw that she thought wasn't quite right but wasn't sure why or what was wrong, and owned up to discouraging others' doubts and taking part in harming people. She detailed how people who are intelligent and not easily manipulated in general find themselves in cults, and victims of catfishers and other scammers. It wasn't hard to feel sympathy and empathy for the victims who were sucked in.

Then, she wrote a book, did the talk show circuit, and I'll put some of this bitchfest to the publishers setting forth the outline they wanted the hosts to cover, but her story became about how she realized the brand was the leaders' initials and no one else had put it together, the information she received from the man about the administration side of the cult filled in a bunch of blanks and explained some of the things she had recognized as not quite right and it broke the spell for her, and how brave she was to come forward and help bring it down. 

She also whitewashed her story a bit because the publisher must not have thought she came across sympathetic enough, and you get how Raniere was mesmerizing and not at all a creepy presence. As I understand it, and I haven't read the book, she still owns up to her dismissal of the red flags and her desire to be part of an organization that brands women, makes them give up shameful information to keep them in line, makes them have sex with a creep, and brands women! 

Where my sympathy took a dive with her was when I learned she didn't go to any law enforcement agency and report what was going on, but instead gave an interview to a New York Times reporter. After it was published, the police got involved. Also happening after the article was published was the term "sex cult" was spoken continuously by every news source, blogger and Youtuber, and suddenly anyone who had even a slight connection started telling their stories. It became so absurd and I found myself losing sympathy for the entire lot of victims. I can realize how unfair of me that is and I'm pretty close to victim blaming, yet as soon as someone or something comes out again, I find myself questioning how anyone could fall for it.

The people who were being recruited but had not joined have been telling their stories and how obvious it was that it was a scam. They didn't know it was a sex cult, but knew it was something shady. Then the people who had a family member in the cult and people that had some passing contact started telling their stories and everything that Sarah said she dismissed became so apparently scammy and it became harder and harder to see how anyone could fall for it.

I do hope all of the victims are taking part in therapy and that some doctor helps them remove the brand, to the extent it can be removed - there were some arguments about how effective a scar revision would be, and that the whole lot actually spend time in prison. I think Allison Mack walked away without prison, but I haven't looked it up because the whole thing just pisses me off.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I just read that the sentencing for Raineire (spelling?) and Mack is postponed to allow more time for the probation people to finish their reports, but the end of January is set for Bronfman, and a couple of others.  

[Razzberry]

On 12/9/2019 at 9:57 PM, Christina said:

Changing gears, I've finally gotten to see all of the Paul Holes' episodes. They are on my NBC app. I was so happy to see he was covering the murder of Oakley Kite, Jr., because it's one of the cases that I don't think gets nearly enough attention when some cases have been covered by every single show, Youtube channel, and true crime blog out there. 

I know, that's one of the things I love about his show.  I get so tired of the same cases being rebranded by the different shows.

I want to get in touch with Holes or his production company about the murders of several young girls in Sonoma County in the '70's that was never solved.  I used to live there.  They were all 'tweens or very young looking, found stripped naked with one earring missing, and dumped into steep embankments off the backroads.  It took the cops forever just to realize they may be connected, duh!  But they were in over their heads.  Some suggest the wine tourist industry wanted to keep it hush-hush.   The book about the case by Gray George is riveting and kept me up nights.  

[walnutqueen]

23 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I know, that's one of the things I love about his show.  I get so tired of the same cases being rebranded by the different shows.

I want to get in touch with Holes or his production company about the murders of several young girls in Sonoma County in the '70's that was never solved.  I used to live there.  They were all 'tweens or very young looking, found stripped naked with one earring missing, and dumped into steep embankments off the backroads.  It took the cops forever just to realize they may be connected, duh!  But they were in over their heads.  Some suggest the wine tourist industry wanted to keep it hush-hush.   The book about the case by Gray George is riveting and kept me up nights.  

Sounds like a great read.  Sadly, my local libraries don't carry it, and $16.99 (for a paperback!!!) buys me a big bag of cat food.

[2727]

I watched a couple of Netflix docs this week: The Confession Killer and Don't Fuck With Cats.

The first show is about Henry Lee Lucas, who I'm sure a lot of us remember as the guy who confessed to 300+ murders from the 60s to 80s. The series dispatches the basics of the case pretty quickly and focuses more on the far-reaching impact his confessions had on law enforcement agencies throughout the States, the Texas Rangers, victims' families, and the extent some prosecutors and police departments will go to close cases.

Don't Fuck  With Cats covers a story I hadn't heard of, about a guy who posted videos of himself harming animals and later went on to murder. A group of people online who saw the videos began trying to track him down. The videos aren't shown, but the people being interviewed describe them. I "watched" by listening, only glancing at the screen now and then.

Edited December 18, 2019 by 2727

[smittykins]

Recently I decided to reread Ann Rule’s Green River, Running Red, and apparently Gary Ridgway murdered a cat(by trapping it in a drink cooler and suffocating it)in his teens. 🤬

[Razzberry]

On 12/17/2019 at 9:01 AM, walnutqueen said:

Sounds like a great read.  Sadly, my local libraries don't carry it, and $16.99 (for a paperback!!!) buys me a big bag of cat food.

Yeah, that's an outrageous price!   A used Kindle goes for not much more than that. 

[Razzberry]

OMG  Kenda tonight!  A mother and daughter were found frozen up in the mountains.   They had pulled over, the daughter and her little dog went into the woods, maybe to pee, and she got disoriented.  The mother got out the car to call for her and locked herself out of the car.  It was so cold that they soon died of exposure within 100 yards of each other. When they found the daughter, the dog was still alive but was eating her face.

[Annber03]

Just watched that episode. Dear god, what a bizarre, tragic story. That poor little dog...

I've been on those mountain roads in the midst of cold weather and blinding snow. It's scary enough traveling those roads completely sober, no way in hell would I dare do that under the influence, whether I was a driver or a passenger. Sounds like the daughter's husband's concerns about his mother-in-law may have had some validity to them, what with the lying and sneaking off and drinking and stealing pills, yet the ex-husband seemed surprised by the news of bottles being found in the car at all. It's a shame they'll never have the complete answers regarding what the deal was with the mom and her daughter, and why they did what they did that night. 

[Razzberry]

I should have known Paul Holes would already be on the case!  His podcast about the Sonoma County murders, with possible ties to Ted Bundy?   Holy crap...   Jensen & Holes, The Murder Squad, podcast

Their website

Edited December 20, 2019 by Razzberry

[nokat]

The Shattered episode, I was hating on the sister of the murderer. First, she was going to the family cabin to "talk" to him and get him to Mexico. She kept talking about how it impacted her (bitch, he killed two women). He couldn't have done it even though she watched video of him admitting to it. I hated this ignorant cow.
 

[Christina]

Every couple of months there is a Reddit thread asking which missing persons do you think are still alive. The responses are almost always the same, but one a few days ago had a new theory, to me, in a case that I've never heard of until now - poorly worded - I've never heard of this theory, but have heard of the case -rough day thinking, should be drinking.

I thought it was covered by Disappeared but do not see it on the episode list, so I'm adding it here. It's been covered by several shows and appearances by his father and there was a discussion here when that (trying to think of an appropriate name but failing) dirtbag claimed to be Timmothy but was lying. 

It was regarding the disappearance of Timmothy Pitzen. On May 11, 2011, six-year-old American boy Timmothy James Pitzen was dropped off at school in Aurora, Illinois by his father James Pitzen. He was picked up shortly after by his mother, Amy Fry-Pitzen, who took him on a three-day trip to various amusement and water parks. Fry-Pitzen's body was subsequently found in a motel room in the town of Rockford, Illinois, having committed suicide, with a note stating that Timmothy was safe, but would never be found.

The actual comment on Reddit is here, but I'm copying it into a quote box because the embedding of links has caused me some freezing issues.

Quote

I believe Timmothy Pitzen is still alive, and I'll tell you why.

There is literally zero evidence, neither forensic nor circumstantial, to substantiate his death. I would submit that it's in fact highly UNlikely Amy murdered her son, and that the limited extant evidence actually indicates that she did precisely what she stated in her suicide note, i.e. she left Timmothy "somewhere safe" where he would "never be found."

A friend of the Pitzen family has stated publicly that Amy was known to have been involved in a cult-like organization called the Endeavor Academy (sometimes referred to as the "New Christian Church of Full Endeavor") whose adherents practice a new-agey brand of charismatic Christianity and who worship an individual named Chuck Anderson who claims to be "the only living son of God." The organization's communal living space and headquarters are located in Wisconsin Dells: the very town where Amy was last seen with Timmothy.

By the time Amy was captured on CCTV back in Illinois on the morning of May 13th, Timmothy was no longer with her, indicating she most likely left him with someone in the Wisconsin Dells area where he was last seen alive. And forensic evidence obtained from the exterior of Amy's vehicle (namely certain pollens and trace minerals) also indicated this was not her first trip to Wisconsin Dells, further suggesting an established, non-random connection to the area. Endeavor is an off-the-grid type organization similar to the Amish and Mennonite communities - they are largely isolated from the outside world and apparently shun the use of most modern technologies; presumably any children are homeschooled from within the commune. This would significantly improve the odds that his caregivers could keep Timmothy (possibly with a new name and identity) out of view from law enforcement and social services.

Friends and family describe Amy as an extremely literal person who was very straightforward in the way she spoke and wrote. I believe people are erroneously reading hidden meanings in her suicide note which simply do not exist. She left Timmothy "somewhere safe" (clearly with individuals whom she trusted) where he "would be cared for." This is not something someone would say in reference to a child who is already deceased. In my opinion the evidence strongly suggests that Timmothy is still alive, or at least that he was alive when his mother committed suicide. Since he was only 6 years old in 2011, it wouldn't be until at least 2023 when Timmothy reaches his 18th birthday and becomes a legal adult that he would need to begin applying for a state ID, social security number and etc. This is typically the age when other children in similar circumstances (e.g. Kamiyah Mobley) end up reappearing on the government's radar and consequently reuniting with their birth families.

The Redditor who left that comment said it stems from a comment four years prior from someone who claimed to be in the family and mentioned the cult involvement. It's on the internet where anyone can claim they are anyone (for instance, I'm currently claiming to be psychic by stating the obvious), so after that original person deleted their account and all the comments with it, the above Reddit searched out the cult aspect more thoroughly and came to their conclusion.

I really hope they are right. His case is one of those that I've never been clear on what I think is the most likely outcome. His family, including his father, do not believe she would have harmed him, but I give a lot of leeway to wishful thinking in these instances. It doesn't sound like she had any history of violence and her depression all sounds like it was directed to herself, not others, like she would think he would need to die for his salvation or something. 

I haven't got to read these yet because my vision is too poor, but here is The Endeavor Academy Wikipedia page. and someone's review of their time there on the Cult Education website. 

 

[Razzberry]

This just in on Jensen & Holes  Murder Squad  website!

Answers, Part One: A new lead in the Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murders

ETA:  I'm skeptical after listening to this woman who claims to have seen her 2 friends leave the ice arena in 1972 with a guy who looked like Bundy.  Why did it take almost 50 years for her to reveal this critical information?  She told no one at the time - why not?  These were her friends and she didn't think it was important?  Disappointed that the hosts didn't press her on this point, and they seem unaware that the girls were seen getting into a car with a male driver before 9:00 pm.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Razzberry

[LuvMyShows]

If you have cable and yours has Justice Network, you should check it out.  There are repeats of shows that aren't on anymore (Dominick Dunne, Cold Case Files, Solved, etc.) and many shows that I had never heard of before.  A really cool show that they have is called Catching Killers.  Each episode delves into a different crime-solving technique, like fire analysis, DNA profiling, insect analysis, etc.  The first season (there are only 2 seasons) is also available on Amazon, which is a good source for finding other crime-related shows that you may have missed.

[Sile]

On 11/5/2019 at 11:39 PM, Annber03 said:

Dang. Freaky enough to have your town show up once in a true crime show, but three times?! That's unsettling, to say the least.

 

Mine has showed up over 100 times!

Then again, I live in Kenda-town... 

[Sile]

On 12/17/2019 at 10:01 AM, walnutqueen said:

Sounds like a great read.  Sadly, my local libraries don't carry it, and $16.99 (for a paperback!!!) buys me a big bag of cat food.

My library doesn't have any of his books, but if you have a Kindle, it's 3.99 on Amazon or free with Kindle Unlimited.

[hoosier80]

Reading back a few pages, where it was mentioned the murderer killed the pets, made me flash on a local case.  I was reading about how this woman didn't go into work (pharmacist at a local grocery store - where I shop).  Co-workers were concerned, had police do a welfare check.  She was found deceased - stabbed to death I believe.  She also had a small dog, who was all killed.  Turns out she'd been the person who waited on me many times, so kind and thoughtful.   It was her drug addled son, who came from CA to OH, wanted money, guess she said no, so he killed her and her dog, then took her car.  Yeah they caught him in a day or so.  I believe he just pled guilty.  Adios asshat.

Mary Jane Fonder - what a nutbag.  I've seen a couple of shows about her.  I think she did kill at least her dad or mother, too.  Yeah, the preacher was secretly lusting after you.  

All of the Murder for Hire people - who are shocked that they were caught.  You're trusting total strangers in most cases.  Then one woman was shocked she was arrested because she watched all of the true crime shows.  Uh, most of those shows are about people who were caught for being stupid, leaving a clue or talking too much.

Today I was watching a Snapped rerun, where the soon to be ex-wife enlisted her firearms instructor (ex serviceman of some sort who thought he was really a special ops guy - not) to kill her soon to be ex - over custody dispute.  This was in Southern CA.  Mr. Special Ops wannabe had diarrhea so they have DNA evidence all over.  He left a towel with the 'specimen' all over it at the scene.  They found other stuff, too that implicated him.  He testifies at trial saying he didn't mean to shoot the guy, but if he had, he'd be dead now.  Yeah, enjoy that 50 year sentence.  The soon to be ex wife got around 30 some years.  So much for winning custody.  Morons.

[LuvMyShows]

Wow, just wow.  Dateline re-ran an episode from January 2019, which I had never seen before.  It was about a guy who paid a college student to be his alibi/body double in Virginia (go to the lawyer's office to pay a bill, being seen by the secretaries, dressed in a hoodie pulled over his head and big reflective sunglasses, to help disguise his appearance), while he drove to Michigan to kill his wife.  Afterward her body had not been found.  When they showed some actual footage of interviews with him about her being missing, every time he spoke of her, his voice was so flat....and not in the way of people whose voices are just naturally flat, but flat in the way that he couldn't even muster up any false emotion given what he knew he had already done.  He swore up and down that he didn't do anything, even years after his conviction.  Finally he confessed and took the authorities to the body.  I'm very surprised to have never seen this murder portrayed on any other show

[renatae]

Just watched the new Evil Lives Here - It Was All Judith. My goodness, my heart is breaking for that young man. SPOILERS FOLLOW! His stepmother would beat and torture him any time his father was out of the house. She forced him to do her bidding with her punishments. This began when he was about six. She graduated to forcing him to misbehave when his father was around - things like throwing water on him when he was sleeping or tearing up the house. He knew she would beat him if he didn't. He loved his dad, but she never let him be alone with his dad so he would have no opportunity to tell him what was going on.

Finally, she told him his dad was dying of cancer and he needed to shoot his dad because that's what he wanted so they'd be provided for. What a monster! He was only 10 years old! She forces him to obey. I don't remember how she explained it besides claiming she wasn't home, but she got away with it.

Finally, he writes an essay about it when he's about 16 and they finally come for her. She gets a life sentence and he thinks he's finally done with her, but she gets a retrial and gets only 10 years, including time served! Poor kid is certain she will exact some sort of revenge when she gets out. 🤬

[walnutqueen]

6 hours ago, renatae said:

Just watched the new Evil Lives Here - It Was All Judith. My goodness, my heart is breaking for that young man. SPOILERS FOLLOW! His stepmother would beat and torture him any time his father was out of the house. She forced him to do her bidding with her punishments. This began when he was about six. She graduated to forcing him to misbehave when his father was around - things like throwing water on him when he was sleeping or tearing up the house. He knew she would beat him if he didn't. He loved his dad, but she never let him be alone with his dad so he would have no opportunity to tell him what was going on.

Finally, she told him his dad was dying of cancer and he needed to shoot his dad because that's what he wanted so they'd be provided for. What a monster! He was only 10 years old! She forces him to obey. I don't remember how she explained it besides claiming she wasn't home, but she got away with it.

Finally, he writes an essay about it when he's about 16 and they finally come for her. She gets a life sentence and he thinks he's finally done with her, but she gets a retrial and gets only 10 years, including time served! Poor kid is certain she will exact some sort of revenge when she gets out. 🤬

This one really got to me, too.  That poor young man has been damaged beyond belief; I do hope he has the help and support he so obviously needs.

I think he's right to fear reprisal from that evil woman when she gets out of jail.

[LuvMyShows]

Good lord, i just saw the most horrendous story.  It was the worst family massacre in US history, and I believe it was on a show called Hometown Homicide on Oxygen, episode "Christmas Massacre".  The man, Ronald Gene Simmons, killed the local members of his family a few days before Christmas, including the daughter he had been sexually abusing and the child she had which he had fathered.  He then laid in wait for a few days until the non-local members of his family came to the house, and he killed them.  He killed 14 members of his extended family in total.  

[Annber03]

Oh, god, yeah, that story. Utterly horrifying. 

[Jordan61]

10 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

This one really got to me, too.  That poor young man has been damaged beyond belief; I do hope he has the help and support he so obviously needs.

I think he's right to fear reprisal from that evil woman when she gets out of jail.

That 911 call is what did it for me. He was so young. I missed the first few minutes, did they say where his bio mom was?

[Razzberry]

I wonder if "People Magazine Investigates" actually investigates anything.  I don't think so, or they'd realize how many other shows have already done the church lady and insurance salesman bump off the husband story. 

I swear I've seen this on Killer Couples, Forensic Files, and a few others.  Enough already!  Sick of this cheap recycling the same old stories when I know darn well there's hundreds or thousands of stories out there that no one's heard of.  But that would actually require some investigating and new footage. 

 

This guy looks.. interesting, what's his story?  He's got a trial coming up on Court TV but I'm not sure what it's about.   Love the suit and tie.

[renatae]

13 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

That 911 call is what did it for me. He was so young. I missed the first few minutes, did they say where his bio mom was?

He said she was "out of the picture." They didn't give any details. Apparently, she just left and his dad was raising him. 😕

[ridethemaverick]

14 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I wonder if "People Magazine Investigates" actually investigates anything.  I don't think so, or they'd realize how many other shows have already done the church lady and insurance salesman bump off the husband story. 

I swear I've seen this on Killer Couples, Forensic Files, and a few others.  Enough already!  Sick of this cheap recycling the same old stories when I know darn well there's hundreds or thousands of stories out there that no one's heard of.  But that would actually require some investigating and new footage. 

 

This guy looks.. interesting, what's his story?  He's got a trial coming up on Court TV but I'm not sure what it's about.   Love the suit and tie.

Re: PMI and the church murder...I always wonder if that time period after the murder is like the day after Christmas. I bet they built up the moment in their heads during all their clandestine sex meetings and thought how much better life would be once he was gone and they were 800k richer and then...reality. They had to take the kids and go on the run to Mexico.

How unsexy that must have been! Holed up in a hotel room with grieving children and no privacy. Then the police froze their accounts so they had no money. I delight in the fact that they must have been absolutely miserable down there and regretting everything.

[LuvMyShows]

On 1/7/2020 at 2:49 AM, Razzberry said:

I wonder if "People Magazine Investigates" actually investigates anything.  I don't think so, or they'd realize how many other shows have already done the church lady and insurance salesman bump off the husband story. 

I was sooo disappointed basically the minute the episode started, when I realized that this was a story that had been depicted over and over and over again on other franchises.  For whatever reason, I expect better from PMI.

[Jordan61]

On 1/6/2020 at 11:49 PM, Razzberry said:

Sick of this cheap recycling the same old stories when I know darn well there's hundreds or thousands of stories out there that no one's heard of.  But that would actually require some investigating and new footage.

I swear, I feel like half the stuff I watch on ID or listen to on podcasts I've already seen on Snapped. In fact, that last Evil Lives Here case was on Snapped 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Jordan61

[geekgirl921]

On 1/6/2020 at 11:49 PM, Razzberry said:

I wonder if "People Magazine Investigates" actually investigates anything.  I don't think so, or they'd realize how many other shows have already done the church lady and insurance salesman bump off the husband story. 

I swear I've seen this on Killer Couples, Forensic Files, and a few others.  Enough already!  Sick of this cheap recycling the same old stories when I know darn well there's hundreds or thousands of stories out there that no one's heard of.  But that would actually require some investigating and new footage. 

 

This guy looks.. interesting, what's his story?  He's got a trial coming up on Court TV but I'm not sure what it's about.   Love the suit and tie.

My main pet peeve is when they slap a new name on a show and claim it as "new".

Edited January 13, 2020 by geekgirl921
Just noticed really bad typos!