S16.E23: Surrendering Noah

[SunnyBeBe]

When Olivia was with Stabler, she seemed to have a caretaker role.  She worried over his marriage, his wife, his kids, his temper, his career, his happiness.  I know it wore me out. 

[Primetimer]

A shoot-out at the SVU corral wraps up a couple of Season 16 plotlines -- and craps on one from the past.

Read the story

[Empress1]

When Olivia was with Stabler, she seemed to have a caretaker role. She worried over his marriage, his wife, his kids, his temper, his career, his happiness. I know it wore me out.

He didn't ask her to do that though. His on the job behavior was her business because it affected her (and she did ask for a new partner when it got to be too much) but his family life was up to him to manage.

I don't know. I just feel like there was no reason to mention Elliott at all. He's been gone for years; his relationship with Olivia has nothing to do with Amaro.

[Dot Com]

A shoot-out at the SVU corral wraps up a couple of Season 16 plotlines -- and craps on one from the past.

http://previously.tv/law-and-order-svu/pino-noir/"> Read the story

While the party at the end was mostly SVUers, Noah's babysitter Lucy was there at the party. Seeming just like one of their little "family".

[LittleIggy]

The little boy playing Noah is a cutie.

[Gayle]

So LOSVU continues the tradition of jettisoning cast members with little or no advance notice.  Remember how Munch's  and the Captain's retirements were tacked on to episodes that gave no clue that this was going to happen?  I get that it happens that way a lot in "real life" (Hey, a worker in my office who seemed to be doing OK was suddenly "laid off" last week without notice), but when an audience has an emotional investment in a character as part of a virtual "family," it would be nice to see the writers have a little more respect.

[Dot Com]

The little boy playing Noah is a cutie.

Noah is played by twins, Bradley and Skyler Dubow. They are definitely adorable.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Dot Com

[Monkeybball]

I'm SO glad that everyone seems to have caught on to the Stabler dig (I knew you all would!).  I almost tweeted it to Warren Leight but didn't....YET.

 

It was just silly.  There was no need to even bring him up there.  I mean on the one hand, I do sort of get what she meant in the sense that, when Stabler was there, it was all "Olivia Elliott OliviaElliott Olliviett" and she didn't have as much interaction with the rest of the squad and they seemed kind of co-dependent on one another, but I wouldn't say that was Elliott's fault.  I mean if we're REALLY gonna go there (and let's be honest, since he's left, the writers have pretty much all but told us) it's OLIVIA'S fault because she was weirdly in love with him.

 

See the following examples:

 

-William Lewis episode 2: Her little speech about Elliott AND Lewis' catching on to the fact that she was gonna "Scream out his name" when she was begging for her life.

 

-Crooked Cops Episode (season 15): Her little speech to the girl cop about being in love with your partner.

 

-Sex Trafficking Episode Number 8million (Season 14): Her chat we Eames "It's like we were married..." "But you weren't."

 

So IF ANYTHING, it was Olivia's hangups that kept her from "growing" NOT Elliott.

 

Meh.

 

Otherwise I thought the episode sucked.

[AntiBeeSpray]

What's worse is, I didn't see Olivia complaining about having no life due to Stabler when he was around. She seemed only too happy playing, for lack of a better term, the "work wife" then. So she can zip it.

 

Yea but she did date other guys to a point. So it's not like she didn't have a dating life.

[Monkeybball]

One more thing I forgot to add:  ENOUGH with the court room shootings. They NEVER happen in real life.  I'm sorry, but HOW many times have they made it just THAT easy to grab a bailiff or court officer's piece and hold it to their head?  It's just so ridiculous, and tired, and basically predictable at this point.  As a lawyer, I go to court almost every day, and I promise you the court officers are not that easy to take advantage of.  

 

The only courtroom shooting I ever found remotely entertaining was the one in "Raw" where the white supremacist kid shot up the room with the fake court officer.  And the ONLY reason I found that one entertaining was because of the Dana Lewis saves the day "Federal Agent, HOLD YOUR FIRE!" moment/reveal.  That was NOT predictable.

[zoey1996]

I liked this episode, and I thought the exchange between Benson and Amaro was nicely done.  Having had time to reflect, I think Olivia was just saying that the dynamic between her and Stabler was different than that between her and Amaro.  She may have felt she was able to take more risks and grow more because she realized she didn't have to hang back and let her partner take the lead.  I don't know if that was the thought behind it, but I didn't see it as a slam or dig at Stabler in any way.  It also let us know what was happening with Amaro.  I do think that better choices could have been made when the Stabler character was written out, because it's kind of weird that he's almost never mentioned, like he just dropped off the planet or something.

 

I like the Noah stuff, too.  He's so adorable.  That said, I'm happy the adoption was finalized so that will no longer be an issue, and also glad his bio-dad is dead, so we don't have the fear that he'll try for custody again.

Edited May 21, 2015 by zoey1996

[AntiBeeSpray]

I liked this episode, and I thought the exchange between Benson and Amaro was nicely done.  Having had time to reflect, I think Olivia was just saying that the dynamic between her and Stabler was different than that between her and Amaro.  She may have felt she was able to take more risks and grow more because she realized she didn't have to hang back and let her partner take the lead.  I don't know if that was the thought behind it, but I didn't see it as a slam or dig at Stabler in any way.  It also let us know what was happening with Amaro.  I do think that better choices could have been made when the Stabler character was written out, because it's kind of weird that he's almost never mentioned, like he just dropped off the planet or something.

 

I like the Noah stuff, too.  He's so adorable.  That said, I'm happy the adoption was finalized so that will no longer be an issue, and also glad his bio-dad is dead, so we don't have the fear that he'll try for custody again.

 

Fair point. But the wording wasn't the best imo. It still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

Agreed. If they would have continued on that path, my pillow would have been shot :D.

[Bananna]

There wasn't as much Benoah drama as I expected, which was always on the plus side. I hope Noah can turn into Tracey Barlow off Corrie, where for a couple of years she was never seen. This storyline would be better, in my opinion, if Noah was older. He could do more, like speak or share his feelings relating to the fact that he lost his mother. 

 

The courtroom shoot out came out of nowhere, before the plants started standing up and yelling. So, it felt a little rushed to me. 

 

As for Nick's exit, well they ruined his character so it was expected. 

[CMH1981]

 

I'm happy the adoption was finalized so that will no longer be an issue, and also glad his bio-dad is dead, so we don't have the fear that he'll try for custody again.

 

Please...knowing this show more bio-family will come out of the woodwork to try and stake claim to that child, or hell we will get a twist and find out that who we thought was the bio-mom actually wasn't and the real bio-mom will show up after seeing that what's-his-name was killed in the courtroom shoot-out.  

 

I think i'm out w/this show.  I came in and started watching this show about 2 or 3 seasons before Stabler left the show and i've had enough.  To be honest the main reason is how it is now the Mariska Hargitay show...I was really shocked that we didn't see her and her real-life husband's character hook up on the show...yet.

[Princess Lucky]

(I was posting from my phone, and I somehow managed to post this in the spoiler thread by mistake, heh. I'm just reposting in the correct thread now.)

Kind of a dull finale. I'm not one for sentimentality (or babies) so, while I thought it was sweet that Benson got what she wanted, it didn't resonate with me. Eh. I do think it must have been moving for Mariska and her husband to film those scenes. But I still don't care about Noah.

I also thought Amaro's exit was rushed. He didn't even have separate goodbyes with the others (Rollins at least, or even Barba), just Benson. And it felt like his departure was all about her. I still don't get if Danny asked to leave or if he was told and didn't bother protesting because he knew Amaro was beyond redemption.

The Stabler comment was totally unnecessary. I don't even disagree that they were codependent and their relationship was unhealthy (though intense and poignant), but what did that have to do with Amaro? And the 'friends for life' part was, what, a Meloni diss? Like, 'Danny Pino is still our friend and he might show up again'? Eh.

The case was boring. I did like that there was a lot of Barba, I always love seeing Tucker and I also love the actor who plays Johnny D's attorney.

Sergeant-wise, Rollins said she didn't want the job but Amaro did say that she'd be good at it. And there was a deadline. Are we to assume they'll bring someone else? I wouldn't mind.

Lastly, Carisi didn't have much to do but he wore cute casual clothes and that's good enough for me. I'm glad we get to keep him. He was my favourite part of season 16.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Princess Lucky

[ethalfrida]

I deleted it without watching.

[Everleigh]

I feel like the show is kind of damned if they do, damned if they don’t regarding Stabler. If they don’t bring him up, it seems suspect because Elliot was such a pivotal part of Olivia’s life and SVU for so long and it’s like, well why are they afraid to mention him? But if they do, then it can feel like they’re unnecessarily dredging up the past or taking pot shots at a character who’s not around to defend himself.

 

Now I don’t particularly care for Warren Leight or the way he’s running the show, but I don’t blame him for the shitty way Elliot was written off and I don’t think he (or his writers) have taken any digs at him since. There’s plenty of shit I do blame him for but he didn’t fire Chris Meloni or decided to write the character off so I don’t fault him for that. He came in when Meloni was gone and had to clean up the mess and write an ending for a beloved character without the actor at his disposal… it couldn’t have been an easy job and well, he didn’t do all that great at it. But he’s not the reason Elliot is gone and I don’t think he or the show has ever dissed him since. They’ve tried to find ways to weave his character, particularly his relationship with Olivia, into storylines and sometimes it feels awkward or forced but I don’t think it’s ever been in a malicious way. I didn't like that he had Olivia admit to being in love with him though, I never saw their relationship as a romantic one, just a deeply connected friendship and that's what I liked about it so he kind of ruined that for me, but whatever. 

 

Anyway, Warren responded to shade accusations. Quite childishly, I might add. 

 

Yeah, I think these people are just looking to feel like we’re dissing Stabler. I really feel that’s not what that scene was about. She said, “My relationship with him didn’t allow growth.” That’s a statement of fact. There was obviously a great love between the two of them, but there was an element of codependence to it. After he left, other things opened up for Olivia Benson. She’s a sergeant, she’s on the road to lieutenant, she has a foster child she just adopted. She was stuck for a while, which, by the way, is also not throwing shade on Stabler. That may be a reflection of who she is in that relationship.
But none of that is where this came from. Where it came from is Amaro is leaving. Everything we do, we come from character. We never think, “Oh, let’s kick the hornet’s nest of the Stabler fans.” That’s never the intention. Amaro is telling her he thinks it’s time and he’s not feeling great about that decision. In that episode, he was up for becoming sergeant. He was somewhat in denial about what his reputation was within the department. We all know him to be a good cop. He wasn’t perceiving himself the way the brass does. He’s wounded physically and a little bit emotionally. He’s going to her and saying goodbye. He says, “I know I wasn’t what your old partner was.” In that moment, Olivia’s first impulse is to take care of Amaro. She loves him and values him, and she’s trying to sure him up and let him know how much their relationship has meant to her. It was a moment of weakness, maybe even fishing for some reassurance, and she gives it to him.
I read those things this morning, I thought, “Oh, just stop. All of you just stop.” I’m very grateful to Danny for working with me to figure out how to arc his character out in the way that would give the fans closure and having enough awareness and concern to do that. He just stepped up enormously in the last six episodes and took care of everybody—both Danny and Amaro took care of everybody else. We could write a scene where Elliot receives a Nobel Prize for peace and the next day, the tweets would be, “How dare they do that!” So, that’s my longwinded answer. No, we were not throwing shade on Elliot. We were in the moment with a character going through a soul-searching decision.

 

 

I get his frustration with fans taking things the wrong way but he should probably shut up about it instead of whining about how misunderstood he is. I took the comment for how it was apparently meant to be taken but it's his staff's job to make sure the dialogue is clear and they convey the message they want to convey. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by Everleigh

[AntiBeeSpray]

Word. Given the history with the whole Goren situation, I honestly don't blame fans either tbh. Neither side can win.

 

Exactly. It should have been clearer. Then maybe people wouldn't have reacted the way they did. It came across as a swipe, regardless of what it was originally intended to be.

[RafaelBarbas]

Now I don’t particularly care for Warren Leight or the way he’s running the show, but I don’t blame him for the shitty way Elliot was written off and I don’t think he (or his writers) have taken any digs at him since. 

I might agree with you if not for the fact that WARREN was the one to write Stabler off that way. This is 100% his fault- if he had simply written Stabler staying in contact but kept it offscreen (like we saw with the Bensidy relationship or Nick and Munch's friendship) he would not have this problem.

[Princess Lucky]

Wow, that's quite the response. I can't help but think that, since he never wrote for Stabler, Leight's opinions are just as valid as ours, if not less (has he watched all or even most of the episodes like many viewers have?). Plus he's obviously biased in thinking that the way he wrote Benson is "better" and has allowed for more growth (even though early Benson was, in my opinion, wonderfully messed up and the fact she was emotionally stunted was actually well handled at first, while the show was still good. I far preferred that Benson over "goo goo ga ga" Benson).

But forget about that, and forget about Stabler; this was Amaro's big exit. Why should it be about Benson’s growth at all?

What about Amaro's growth? Why couldn't his goodbye speech be: "I came here 4 years ago, happily-ish married, with a nice family, a daughter I used to take trick-or-treating, my career was on a good track and my life was in order. And now I'm leaving, divorced, with two children neither of whom lives with me, I can't walk, my career is ruined, I'm retiring at 40 with a slashed pension, and I'm unemployed, starting over from scratch in a strange city, unable to do what I love. And all because of you, Liv, because you're a great partner and you helped me grow... I mean you sat by and watched as I ruined my life."

Now, you might say that Amaro's downward spiral wasn't Benson’s fault, and I'd say that Benson’s issues weren't Stabler's fault. Except Leight commenting on Amaro's life with anything other than a harsh "damaged goods" would confirm just how poorly he handled the character. So he focused on Benson, as always.

I still can't see why Amaro couldn't have transferred to another precinct in California, why he had to quit being a cop. Was it because the writers wanted a shootout and a dramatic injury? Even though the shootout and the injury and the recuperation all happened within 4 minutes?

Eh. The more I think about the finale the less I like it. I'll just go look at some Carisi gifs on tumblr and enjoy his cuteness now, while he's still adorable, playing with every kid he meets; before he accidentally runs over a toddler or something.

[AntiBeeSpray]

Wow, that's quite the response. I can't help but think that, since he never wrote for Stabler, Leight's opinions are just as valid as ours, if not less (has he watched all or even most of the episodes like many viewers have?). Plus he's obviously biased in thinking that the way he wrote Benson is "better" and has allowed for more growth (even though early Benson was, in my opinion, wonderfully messed up and the fact she was emotionally stunted was actually well handled at first, while the show was still good. I far preferred that Benson over "goo goo ga ga" Benson).

But forget about that, and forget about Stabler; this was Amaro's big exit. Why should it be about Benson’s growth at all?

What about Amaro's growth? Why couldn't his goodbye speech be: "I came here 4 years ago, happily-ish married, with a nice family, a daughter I used to take trick-or-treating, my career was on a good track and my life was in order. And now I'm leaving, divorced, with two children neither of whom lives with me, I can't walk, my career is ruined, I'm retiring at 40 with a slashed pension, and I'm unemployed, starting over from scratch in a strange city, unable to do what I love. And all because of you, Liv, because you're a great partner and you helped me grow... I mean you sat by and watched as I ruined my life."

Now, you might say that Amaro's downward spiral wasn't Benson’s fault, and I'd say that Benson’s issues weren't Stabler's fault. Except Leight commenting on Amaro's life with anything other than a harsh "damaged goods" would confirm just how poorly he handled the character. So he focused on Benson, as always.

I still can't see why Amaro couldn't have transferred to another precinct in California, why he had to quit being a cop. Was it because the writers wanted a shootout and a dramatic injury? Even though the shootout and the injury and the recuperation all happened within 4 minutes?

Eh. The more I think about the finale the less I like it. I'll just go look at some Carisi gifs on tumblr and enjoy his cuteness now, while he's still adorable, playing with every kid he meets; before he accidentally runs over a toddler or something.

 

^ This. Hands down.

 

It wasn't even really bringing up Amaro at all per say. Other than the 'damaged goods' comment. It was all 'Olivia, Olivia, Olivia'. I hate to say this but SVU has gotten awfully narcissistic as of late imo (I have no other way of putting it honestly). It isn't all about YOU Olivia. There are others involved who worked along side you or who work beside you.

 

Good points overall.

 

This episode imo is in part why this show isn't really worth watching anymore, sadly. As much as I used to give a damn about Benson, I practically don't anymore. *shrug* That train has left the station as far as I'm concerned.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

A hit dog will always holler.

:looking at you Warren Leight:

[RafaelBarbas]

What about Amaro's growth? Why couldn't his goodbye speech be: "I came here 4 years ago, happily-ish married, with a nice family, a daughter I used to take trick-or-treating, my career was on a good track and my life was in order. And now I'm leaving, divorced, with two children neither of whom lives with me, I can't walk, my career is ruined, I'm retiring at 40 with a slashed pension, and I'm unemployed, starting over from scratch in a strange city, unable to do what I love. And all because of you, Liv, because you're a great partner and you helped me grow... I mean you sat by and watched as I ruined my life."

 

Marry me.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Amaro annoyed most of the time, but Danny really shined when given great material.

Most recently, the eppy with Armand Assante.

Didn't watch Cold Case much, but he was phenomenal on The Shield.

More than capable of being the lead in a drama , sci-fi or horror series.

Think he should focus on cable, hope a quality show snatches him up.

[hitonallsixes]

^ This. Hands down.

 

It wasn't even really bringing up Amaro at all per say. Other than the 'damaged goods' comment. It was all 'Olivia, Olivia, Olivia'. I hate to say this but SVU has gotten awfully narcissistic as of late imo (I have no other way of putting it honestly). It isn't all about YOU Olivia. There are others involved who worked along side you or who work beside you.

 

There was so much focus on Olivia in S15 with the Lewis Arc and her therapy sessions and in S16 with Noah that the writers failed to write positive mini-arcs for the other characters.  If Amaro is "damaged goods", then it is the writer's fault.  Sometimes you need to have a character experience loss so that they can grow; I think most fans understand this.  However,  I feel that both negative and positive growth are essential for a balanced character.  Even though heartbreaking and terrible things have happened to Olivia, she was allowed to grow.  Amaro, on the other hand, lost but never gained...for three seasons straight, I might add!  When he did gain something positive, like finding out about Gil, the writers didn't do anything with it.  If you keep writing a character that way, eventually the ink will run dry on your pen when it comes to fleshing out said character.  S15 was bad for Amaro, but there are things they could have done in S16 to bring more depth to his character and to give DP more material to work with.  Why not have Cynthia get shot and have Gil move in with Amaro?  They could have explored the father-son dynamic in a big dramatic way. Or, why not put Amaro with Cynthia instead of with Rollins?  It seemed like they weren't at odds with each other anymore by the time of the S14 finale.  Rekindling an old romance could have been interesting.   I just don't understand the need for all of the Olivia/Noah scenes when Noah is played by an actor who can't emote.  Noah is cute and I'm happy that Olivia is finally a mother, but that kind of thing doesn't make good drama.  To be fair, the writers did give Amaro (and Rollins) some big character episodes, but when they did, there usually wasn't any follow up and that was sometimes frustrating for fans.

My guess is that Danny Pino would have stayed if he had felt that there was more meat to extract from his character.  

Surrendering Noah felt like a series finale to me and I may end up treating it as such.  I am sure there will be some interesting stories in S17, but I don't know if I will return to watch.

 

Edited May 22, 2015 by hitonallsixes

[Everleigh]

I might agree with you if not for the fact that WARREN was the one to write Stabler off that way. This is 100% his fault- if he had simply written Stabler staying in contact but kept it offscreen (like we saw with the Bensidy relationship or Nick and Munch's friendship) he would not have this problem.

 

I know, and I said he did a bad job with Elliot's exit, but it's not like he had much to work with. The actor was gone and from what I understand, not on good terms with the show so there was little hope of him ever returning. Maybe they thought having him say his goodbyes off-screen was a cop out and that having him remain in contact with Olivia and the others off screen would string viewers along, many of whom are still clamoring for the show to "bring back Stabler!" Would hearing that Elliot retired but still occasionally talks to Olivia, Fin, Munch, etc., have been a satisfying ending for him? I doubt it. I don't think any ending they new writers came up with for Elliot would have pleased viewers because they were robbed of seeing his goodbye. It really was a lose/lose situation.

 

I never thought Stabler's exit made sense for the character and I wasn't happy about how it was handled, my point was Warren didn't make the decision to get rid of him so I don't see the animosity people seem to think he has for the character or the actor. I'm sure he would have loved to have Elliot to work with but he didn't so he molded Nick into a mini-Elliot and well, we all saw how well that worked. 

[Hero]

Wow, that's quite the response. I can't help but think that, since he never wrote for Stabler, Leight's opinions are just as valid as ours, if not less (has he watched all or even most of the episodes like many viewers have?). Plus he's obviously biased in thinking that the way he wrote Benson is "better" and has allowed for more growth (even though early Benson was, in my opinion, wonderfully messed up and the fact she was emotionally stunted was actually well handled at first, while the show was still good. I far preferred that Benson over "goo goo ga ga" Benson).

But forget about that, and forget about Stabler; this was Amaro's big exit. Why should it be about Benson’s growth at all?

What about Amaro's growth? Why couldn't his goodbye speech be: "I came here 4 years ago, happily-ish married, with a nice family, a daughter I used to take trick-or-treating, my career was on a good track and my life was in order. And now I'm leaving, divorced, with two children neither of whom lives with me, I can't walk, my career is ruined, I'm retiring at 40 with a slashed pension, and I'm unemployed, starting over from scratch in a strange city, unable to do what I love. And all because of you, Liv, because you're a great partner and you helped me grow... I mean you sat by and watched as I ruined my life."

Now, you might say that Amaro's downward spiral wasn't Benson’s fault, and I'd say that Benson’s issues weren't Stabler's fault. Except Leight commenting on Amaro's life with anything other than a harsh "damaged goods" would confirm just how poorly he handled the character. So he focused on Benson, as always.

I still can't see why Amaro couldn't have transferred to another precinct in California, why he had to quit being a cop. Was it because the writers wanted a shootout and a dramatic injury? Even though the shootout and the injury and the recuperation all happened within 4 minutes?

Eh. The more I think about the finale the less I like it. I'll just go look at some Carisi gifs on tumblr and enjoy his cuteness now, while he's still adorable, playing with every kid he meets; before he accidentally runs over a toddler or something.

There's a tumbler of Carisi gifs? I'm definitely checking that out!

[Kel Varnsen]

Is there some kind of ban in regards to actually saying Elliot/Stabler? This isn't the first time they've called him "him", " old partner " ect but it's the most its annoyed me.

I was wondering about that too. How much are the writers pissed off at you that they won't even say your characters name?

 

Also I am still confused by how prisons work in L&O world. Like with the episode a few weeks ago where the dad was accused of assaulting his daughter I have the same issue here. Johnny D was a sex trafficker who was raping exploiting way underaged girls and threatening to rape an 11 year old. Now I thought child sex criminals were at the very bottom of prison society, so how is it that Johnny D is able to bribe a guard, and have enough power to arrange a hit and intimidate a witness from inside jail?

[Malbec]

 If Amaro is "damaged goods", then it is the writer's fault.  Sometimes you need to have a character experience loss so that they can grow; I think most fans understand this.  However,  I feel that both negative and positive growth are essential for a balanced character.  Even though heartbreaking and terrible things have happened to Olivia, she was allowed to grow.  Amaro, on the other hand, lost but never gained...for three seasons straight, I might add!  When he did gain something positive, like finding out about Gil, the writers didn't do anything with it.  If you keep writing a character that way, eventually the ink will run dry on your pen when it comes to fleshing out said character.  S15 was bad for Amaro, but there are things they could have done in S16 to bring more depth to his character and to give DP more material to work with.  Why not have Cynthia get shot and have Gil move in with Amaro?  They could have explored the father-son dynamic in a big dramatic way. Or, why not put Amaro with Cynthia instead of with Rollins?  It seemed like they weren't at odds with each other anymore by the time of the S14 finale.  Rekindling an old romance could have been interesting.   I just don't understand the need for all of the Olivia/Noah scenes when Noah is played by an actor who can't emote.  Noah is cute and I'm happy that Olivia is finally a mother, but that kind of thing doesn't make good drama.  To be fair, the writers did give Amaro (and Rollins) some big character episodes, but when they did, there usually wasn't any follow up and that was sometimes frustrating for fans.

 

 

You really hit the nail on the head.  For the most part, I could go with the individual plot developments they came up with for Amaro.  IMO there were some great episodes focusing on him (I really liked "Undercover Blue," "Born Psychopath," and especially "Padre Sandunguero"), and Danny Pino always brought it when called upon.    

 

But then they just... never went anywhere with what they'd brought up, never seemed to have Amaro develop self-awareness, and seemed to always prefer to drop a new Drama Bomb on him rather than develop what they already had.  It's really nonsensical.

 

I also have to say, I think the point of no return was when they had him beat the crap out of that molester and get arrested.  The shooting in "Amaro's One-Eighty" was not my favorite thing, but it was a believable morally gray situation and I actually do like that it seemed to have consequences.  So why not take THOSE consequences and go with it if the writers wanted a super dramatic finale for Amaro, instead of having him go all Stabler lite on Wilkes?  It was just so dumb, aggravating and needless.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Malbec

[Bananna]

 

But forget about that, and forget about Stabler; this was Amaro's big exit. Why should it be about Benson’s growth at all?

What about Amaro's growth? Why couldn't his goodbye speech be: "I came here 4 years ago, happily-ish married, with a nice family, a daughter I used to take trick-or-treating, my career was on a good track and my life was in order. And now I'm leaving, divorced, with two children neither of whom lives with me, I can't walk, my career is ruined, I'm retiring at 40 with a slashed pension, and I'm unemployed, starting over from scratch in a strange city, unable to do what I love. And all because of you, Liv, because you're a great partner and you helped me grow... I mean you sat by and watched as I ruined my life."

I think the main problem is this is that SVU has turned into Law & Order: Olivia Benson. What should have been Amaro and his decision to leave the squad just became about Liv. If they wanted to have her at the forefront of the show then fine, but they completely neglect the other characters. We know that in Mad Men, Don Draper is the main character. However, all the other characters go through storylines that mean that the show is still worth watching. 

[Mreid]

I think this is my last season with this show I never really got over Stabler leaving but now that Amaro is leaving I really have no other reason to watch he was my favorite cop. And I just dont like Olivia in this new role she was much more enjoyable to watch as a detective than a sargeant 

[MorbidPet]

So S16 will definitely go down in my book as the weakest of SVU.02. I spent most of the season being disappointed and feeling robbed. SVU has always been good at blending in tidbits of personal drama in to the cases the squad currently worked on but this season they just went totally overboard, the Lewis arch started it and the Benoah drama ruined S16. I get that Liv is the star of the show but that doesn't mean she has to be the center of everything.

 

I also thought Amaro's exit was rushed. He didn't even have separate goodbyes with the others (Rollins at least, or even Barba), just Benson. And it felt like his departure was all about her. I still don't get if Danny asked to leave or if he was told and didn't bother protesting because he knew Amaro was beyond redemption.

This! & what others have mentioned as well. It was Nick's goodbye scene, it was his moment but still they turned it in to Liv's. Had they at least given Rollaro a proper goodbye scene they could've focused it on Nick. He deserved that moment. I'm so sad to see DP go but I wish him well. SVU gave him crumbs to work with this season, he deserves more than that. It does seem as though they did actually can him. They made him in to Stabler lite and then felt as though they painted him in to a corner so they thanked him by sending him off. Way to go show. I say lazy writing. He was a great father. Have his son move in with him instead of going with his mom. Actually explore the Rollaro relationship that you only teased about and left on the cutting room floor. So much potential and all wasted because Liv has to be the constant focus. Sigh.

 

I can't believe Mariska called this their best finale ever. It was bleak just as the entire season. I did smile a few times at the Benoah scenes but there was never any doubt she would get to adopt him so they could've just ended that half way through the season and made this finale about Nick instead and given him a proper sendoff. It would've been nice to have given the other characters something to do as well seeing how it was the finale but that was too much to ask of this season obviously.

 

I've learn not to trust whatever Warren says (he said Rollaro would factor in to the finale. Where exactly did we get any Rollaro? The pat on the arm? Hate to be Warren's wife *hmpf*) but I really hope he stands by what he said in an article about the adoption being a closed chapter and Noah only showing up from time to time in S17. I swear to... if they go all in on Liv's love life instead in S17 they will have to check me in to an asylum.

It's time SVU goes back to what they do best, cases about special victims with a hint of personal drama & character development. There's still life left in this show and they have important messages and stories to share with the audience but they can't do that if Liv has to be front and center constantly. Warren needs to stop fangirling over Mariska and value that he has (had, I'll be bitter over DP for a while you have to excuse me) a great cast that he should use. He said in another article Rollins will be going through changes - I can only hope that means they will finally deal with her rape recovery, Barba would get some focus and we'd start to get to know Carisi better. Funny enough he even forgot to mention Fin/Ice but then again he's mostly been in the back making googly eyes or falling asleep this season so yeah whatever.

As for the command in the squad room I wish someone else could come in and take over but I guess there isn't any doubt Liv will fast track to Lt. No one but Carisi wants to be Sergeant so that might mean they bring in someone new for a few eps, maybe rotate some different ppl in and out, as long as they don't rotate out the regular cast I'm fine with it. A lot of Barba would be nice. And pls bring back evil Tucker, he's so much better than whatever softie you've replaced him with.

 

Goodbye Nick Amaro/Danny Pino! You'll be missed! Pls come back as a guest star sometime soon, and if you'd like to sweep Rollins off her feet and take her with you to Cali for a spin-off I'll gladly jump on board that! (hear that Dick Wolf? Time to head further west maybe?)

[AntiBeeSpray]

I think the main problem is this is that SVU has turned into Law & Order: Olivia Benson. What should have been Amaro and his decision to leave the squad just became about Liv. If they wanted to have her at the forefront of the show then fine, but they completely neglect the other characters. We know that in Mad Men, Don Draper is the main character. However, all the other characters go through storylines that mean that the show is still worth watching. 

Word. Exactly. And that is really wearing and getting VERY old, VERY fast.

[WendyCR72]

Goodbye Nick Amaro/Danny Pino! You'll be missed! Pls come back as a guest star sometime soon, and if you'd like to sweep Rollins off her feet and take her with you to Cali for a spin-off I'll gladly jump on board that! (hear that Dick Wolf? Time to head further west maybe?)

 

He did that already in 2010 with the spectacular failure that was L&O: Los Angeles.

[J-Man]

 

One more thing I forgot to add:  ENOUGH with the court room shootings.

Especially since we'd just seen an attempted (and almost successful) courtroom shooting on "The Mysteries of Laura," which immediately preceded this episode. In that one, someone invented an undetectable plastic gun which was able to be smuggled into a courtroom.)

[candall]

I'm so tired and disgusted with this show.

 

Olivia "Truthy" Benson putting sicko rapist bio-dad's name all over the adoption paperwork JUST as he goes to trial, in HER case, was ridiculous.  "Oh, the family courts are way over on the next street.  He'll never notice."  Are you fucking kidding me?  The conflict of interest alone is a good starter base for appeal and who knows where all those chickies will be if they need to testify again a few years down the road?  Pffft.

 

But then--ta dah!--the guy conveniently commits suicide by cop.  Much more likely he would have enjoyed a fun cat and mouse game torturing Olivia from prison--getting some fake relative to contest the adoption, getting a court order to stall the adoption pending appeal, making Olivia bring Noah to the prison for visitation, etc.  Seems like a hobby a guy like him could really get into.

 

Don't care about Amaro.  Bye.

 

P.S>Law & Order: Olivia Benson is perfect, and hilarious.

[Princess Lucky]

Agreed, it was ridiculously contrived that Johnny D was Noah's father and it was even more contrived that he wanted to die, for some reason. Eh.

I was actually thinking about Amaro's fate, and after reading the comments here I do have to agree that a reunion with his son's mother would have been a sweeter ending for him.

Ultimately, I don't know what was even the point in attempting Rollins/Amaro at all. The reveal was a fun "wtf?" moment but it was totally ignored throughout S16. They each had important moments with the other nowhere to be found. They didn't even get a goodbye. Don't get me wrong, I didn't think they were in love or anything, nor did I hate the pairing. I thought they had a dysfunctional physical relationship along with mutual respect. But it's like, if someone had missed that reveal, they wouldn't even know Rollaro was a thing. Only Carisi ever alluded to them being an item.

I would have preferred to see that end amicably and sweetly, in favour of Amaro/Gil's mom. Especially since Amaro was leaving, and considering they had set up a nice "the one who got away" scenario with Gil's mom when she was first introduced. I honestly don't think Rollins would have minded, and she could have had a nice, mature moment wishing Amaro happiness.

I do think Leight may have avoided that so he wouldn't provoke vocal Rollaro fans, but the alternative was literally nothing. A pat on the arm. I mean, even disregarding the above, even with Rollaro happening, why couldn't they have exchanged, like, 2 words about him leaving? We even saw Fin being told that Nick was damaged goods. Instead of that, why couldn't there have been a scene with Nick saying that to Rollins, with him being dejected, and her supportive (instead of being all "lol you, a sergeant, really?!")? That would have set up the exit a lot better, it would have shown that Amaro prepared Rollins for it.

Like, any of these options would have taken 2 minutes to play out. Instead it's all about Benson. Sigh. And, again, don't get me wrong, I liked the scene with Amaro going to Benson about that promotion, it was sweet and a perfect encapsulation of their relationship. Benson has always liked Amaro and she has always wanted the best for him. I just don't get why Amaro wasn't allowed to have a meaningful moment with anyone else before he left.

[hitonallsixes]

Agreed, it was ridiculously contrived that Johnny D was Noah's father and it was even more contrived that he wanted to die, for some reason. Eh.

I was actually thinking about Amaro's fate, and after reading the comments here I do have to agree that a reunion with his son's mother would have been a sweeter ending for him.

Ultimately, I don't know what was even the point in attempting Rollins/Amaro at all. The reveal was a fun "wtf?" moment but it was totally ignored throughout S16. 

I too wish that Amaro had gotten individual goodbye scenes with Fin and with Rollins. 

I am a Rollaro supporter, but feel that it would have been better to not go there at all then have it play out the way that it did.  Pairing Amaro with Cynthia would have made sense in the early second half of S16 but by the season finale, it was too late to play that card.  It would have seemed contrived.  Cynthia and Gil being in Padre Sandunguero would have been a good point to reintroduce Cynthia as a love interest.  She could have come into the squad room at the end to be with Amaro, instead of closing the episode with him being alone.  That would have set up a possible rekindling of their relationship and would have put an end to the Rollaro baiting, which wasn't productive at all.  I always thought that Rollaro was written into the show at a point in time when the writers weren't sure if there would be a S16…so they just threw it in there with an “eh…why not?” attitude (for shock value) without really considering the repercussions of putting those two characters together. 

If Amaro ever comes back for a guest spot, it would be nice to hear that he and Cynthia did reconnect.

Edited May 23, 2015 by hitonallsixes

[CleoCaesar]

I'm sad Amaro is leaving. Danny Pino was reliable eye candy.

 

I may be the only viewer who actually likes scenes with Olivia and Noah. I don't enjoy their little family constantly being tortured by outside forces and drama, but I like that she is finally a mom with a cute toddler. That being said, how big of a moron is she, listing Johnny D as the father when everyone was telling her not to?

 

Benson, Amaro, Rollins, Tuttola, and Barba was the perfect SVU group (I'm still somewhat mixed on Carisi) and now it won't be the same. Sigh.

[Everleigh]

I may be the only viewer who actually likes scenes with Olivia and Noah. I don't enjoy their little family constantly being tortured by outside forces and drama, but I like that she is finally a mom with a cute toddler. That being said, how big of a moron is she, listing Johnny D as the father when everyone was telling her not to?

 

I like Noah too and don't mind the occasional Olivia/Noah related story-line. I just don't like when they repeat the same "OMG Noah's in danger!" drama over and over again. I always wanted Olivia to have a family of her own and I thought it was kind of shitty of the writers to keep denying her that previously. Although I do have to say I initially thought an older child (like Calvin) would have made more sense than an infant for Olivia as an older, single, working mother but the baby's cute so whatever. I don't think we'll be seeing as much of him next season anyway. 

[Snookums]

So I finally watched this...sigh...

 

The thing that gets me is they take situations that could be explained perfectly soundly--as reckless as it seemed to put Noah's Bio dad on his paperwork, Olivia was actually right. Hiding it would only make problems later, which would be exponentially worse as Noah got older/Johnny D got bored in prison and found a thing to torture his kid and her with. But instead of stating that, she's got to do this speech about how lying doesn't work and she wants to start their lives together honestly and yibble yibble yibble.

 

It's not that those aren't worthy sentiments in and of themselves, but a woman whose career has been focusing on the very worst, most depraved things humans can do to each other isn't going to rely on fluffy pink aphorisms and hopping bunnies of hope. The way everybody tried to talk her out of it made her look even stupider. All these Olivia Drama! storylines do. They take a smart woman and make her look utterly ridiculous for the sake of overheated, convoluted plots. 

 

I don't want to hear one more damn thing about Olivia's personal life until she and Tucker announce their engagement with absolutely no buildup.

 

 

Funny, I was thinking of Goren here, too. And on CI, he and Eames had a GOOD ending. And Bobby was adamant in therapy about keeping his job, so yeah, it made no sense, what was said on SVU.

 

 

 

 

Ugh, that made me so FURIOUS when it happened! They end CI really well and then bring poor Katherine Erbe in to crap all over it so she can get a scrap more work out of them; they knew she couldn't say no. Work is work.

 

Just a huge middle finger to fans.

[Desperately Random]

Ugh, that made me so FURIOUS when it happened! They end CI really well and then bring poor Katherine Erbe in to crap all over it so she can get a scrap more work out of them; they knew she couldn't say no. Work is work.

 

Just a huge middle finger to fans.

Couldn't agree more which is why I will never watch that episode again. In my mind, what Eames actually said was that Bobby was on vacation that week and that  they were still partners. Nothing will make me think otherwise.

 

I don't want to hear one more damn thing about Olivia's personal life until she and Tucker announce their engagement with absolutely no buildup.

Would love that but change Tucker to Barba and have the announcement occur in the series finale.

Seriously Show, no more Noah drama. Please.

[AntiBeeSpray]

Couldn't agree more which is why I will never watch that episode again. In my mind, what Eames actually said was that Bobby was on vacation that week and that  they were still partners. Nothing will make me think otherwise.

 

Would love that but change Tucker to Barba and have the announcement occur in the series finale.

Seriously Show, no more Noah drama. Please.

 

Me neither! That's me as well. My best guess on that is that D. Wolf was ticked off that Jeff Goldblum's character (Det. Nichols) didn't last. I remember reading somewhere that he wanted him originally as Goren. It would be a shame if that's why Goren's character was assassinated as much as it was in SVU, but frankly I wouldn't put it past him (or the writers for that matter).

 

Same ;). I'd love her and Barba to be together.

 

Word. So worn out by that!

[Crucial]

Maybe this is just me but this is a typical way lately the show would end.  This show is clearly Olivia Benson so why not have her goodbye to Amaro be about Olivia.  I mean don't give him a goodbye that would be about him.  I'm surprised the actor lasted this long considering what they did to his character.  I don't know if it's because Mariska (sp?) is a producer and wants it this way but this show being so clearly about Benson is just killing it.  There was no reason Stabler had to be mentioned like that.  She didn't grow with Stabler?  Was that a job requirement.   When they were apart was she not a part of an undercover assignment that was important.  I guess that doesn't count.  And honestly she was just as bad as he was.  I love that his temper came into play but forget all the orders she didn't follow because she thought it was right.  And I find it funny now that she is a mother all the talk Stabler gave about kids Olivia turned her nose up and flipped off comes into play (hmm vaccinations).  Olivia was just as bad as Stabler was but this will never come into play because she is a producer. 

Edited May 25, 2015 by Crucial

[AntiBeeSpray]

^ Exactly. You nailed it. It's going down a path to cancellation imo if it continues down the road it's heading in.

[WendyCR72]

Couldn't agree more which is why I will never watch that episode again. In my mind, what Eames actually said was that Bobby was on vacation that week and that  they were still partners. Nothing will make me think otherwise.

 

Oh, thank you, @Desperately Random! I think I'll steal that great fanwank for my own personal use. <Gives Leight the finger>

[wknt3]

So S16 will definitely go down in my book as the weakest of SVU.02. I spent most of the season being disappointed and feeling robbed. SVU has always been good at blending in tidbits of personal drama in to the cases the squad currently worked on but this season they just went totally overboard, the Lewis arch started it and the Benoah drama ruined S16. I get that Liv is the star of the show but that doesn't mean she has to be the center of everything.

 

This! & what others have mentioned as well. It was Nick's goodbye scene, it was his moment but still they turned it in to Liv's. Had they at least given Rollaro a proper goodbye scene they could've focused it on Nick. He deserved that moment. I'm so sad to see DP go but I wish him well. SVU gave him crumbs to work with this season, he deserves more than that. It does seem as though they did actually can him. They made him in to Stabler lite and then felt as though they painted him in to a corner so they thanked him by sending him off. Way to go show. I say lazy writing. He was a great father. Have his son move in with him instead of going with his mom. Actually explore the Rollaro relationship that you only teased about and left on the cutting room floor. So much potential and all wasted because Liv has to be the constant focus. Sigh.

 

I can't believe Mariska called this their best finale ever. It was bleak just as the entire season. I did smile a few times at the Benoah scenes but there was never any doubt she would get to adopt him so they could've just ended that half way through the season and made this finale about Nick instead and given him a proper sendoff. It would've been nice to have given the other characters something to do as well seeing how it was the finale but that was too much to ask of this season obviously.

 

I've learn not to trust whatever Warren says (he said Rollaro would factor in to the finale. Where exactly did we get any Rollaro? The pat on the arm? Hate to be Warren's wife *hmpf*) but I really hope he stands by what he said in an article about the adoption being a closed chapter and Noah only showing up from time to time in S17. I swear to... if they go all in on Liv's love life instead in S17 they will have to check me in to an asylum.

It's time SVU goes back to what they do best, cases about special victims with a hint of personal drama & character development. There's still life left in this show and they have important messages and stories to share with the audience but they can't do that if Liv has to be front and center constantly. Warren needs to stop fangirling over Mariska and value that he has (had, I'll be bitter over DP for a while you have to excuse me) a great cast that he should use. He said in another article Rollins will be going through changes - I can only hope that means they will finally deal with her rape recovery, Barba would get some focus and we'd start to get to know Carisi better. Funny enough he even forgot to mention Fin/Ice but then again he's mostly been in the back making googly eyes or falling asleep this season so yeah whatever.

As for the command in the squad room I wish someone else could come in and take over but I guess there isn't any doubt Liv will fast track to Lt. No one but Carisi wants to be Sergeant so that might mean they bring in someone new for a few eps, maybe rotate some different ppl in and out, as long as they don't rotate out the regular cast I'm fine with it. A lot of Barba would be nice. And pls bring back evil Tucker, he's so much better than whatever softie you've replaced him with.

 

Goodbye Nick Amaro/Danny Pino! You'll be missed! Pls come back as a guest star sometime soon, and if you'd like to sweep Rollins off her feet and take her with you to Cali for a spin-off I'll gladly jump on board that! (hear that Dick Wolf? Time to head further west maybe?)

 

I don't think this was the weakest or bleakest season, but I have to agree with everything else you said. I think the biggest problem as everyone here has pointed out is the relentless focus on Benson to the exclusion of every other character. And even when it hurts the ability to tell stories. A great example that you touched on is the command thing. There is a reason the squad commander is not the lead in L&O franchise shows and combining the roles not only hurts the realism it hurts the narrative. The same way that at times the Noah screen time lead to main plots feeling underbaked or oddly paced. I have no problem with Mariska as the main character and focus of the show but in the old days when you had co-leads there was the occasional Munch or Fin or Cragen episode.

[AntiBeeSpray]

I don't think this was the weakest or bleakest season, but I have to agree with everything else you said. I think the biggest problem as everyone here has pointed out is the relentless focus on Benson to the exclusion of every other character. And even when it hurts the ability to tell stories. A great example that you touched on is the command thing. There is a reason the squad commander is not the lead in L&O franchise shows and combining the roles not only hurts the realism it hurts the narrative. The same way that at times the Noah screen time lead to main plots feeling underbaked or oddly paced. I have no problem with Mariska as the main character and focus of the show but in the old days when you had co-leads there was the occasional Munch or Fin or Cragen episode.

 

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. It just leaves a lot of plot off kilter.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Word. Exactly. And that is really wearing and getting VERY old, VERY fast.

Yep, but at least it's not as bad as The Good Wife or most of Olivia's scenes wouldn't even be with the other ensemble characters. And there'd be one character Mariska would only deign to appear with via green screen and weird camera angles.

[AntiBeeSpray]

Yep, but at least it's not as bad as The Good Wife or most of Olivia's scenes wouldn't even be with the other ensemble characters. And there'd be one character Mariska would only deign to appear with via green screen and weird camera angles.

 

Ah. I haven't even watched that show that much. Sucks that it's not doing that well.