S01.E09: Patriot Brains

[Bort]

Is it that easy to get body armor for a person like Major? It's not like he's in law enforcement. And it's pretty clear he's acting irrationally at this point.

I think the poster was referring to it as the reasonable explanation to Clive and Major as to how the Candyman got up and walked away after taking three gunshots to the torso.

[FurryFury]

Ah, my bad. Still, doubt Major was trying to assess this situation from a logical POV. He just freaked out.

[jhlipton]

IIRC, Buffy put that aside fairly early on and there really was no explanation for her subsequent delay, other than apparently needing to wait until her friends were attacked to act.

 

It's been forever since I've seen Season 2 as well, but IIRC, the potential for a cure came up fairly early in the season, and Buffy was hoping she didn't have to kill Angel[us].

 

Neither Major nor Clive have heard of body armor?

If the Candyman had been wearing body armor, it would have been pretty obvious when he was laying on the floor. Most body armor is bulky and boxy.

[wayne67]

If the Candyman had been wearing body armor, it would have been pretty obvious when he was laying on the floor. Most body armor is bulky and boxy.

 

That Candyman is fairly bulky and boxy himself and we have no idea how much time elapsed from shots fired to Major calling Clive. I'm guessing less than a minute and while he waited anxiously for Clive to show up I doubt he wanted to spend time with the corpse. So I don't imagine he would have known he was wearing bulky armor or not as he wouldn't have patted down the body. Also this is presumably the first time Major fired a gun at a person so he may have clipped the guy or the bullet may not have exited out, reducing blood spatter. Lots of rational reasons that don't involve zombies or hallucinations.

 

What really confused me about that scene other than Clive being all like noone could have been shot. I work with a pale psychic who has visions and I don't believe in anything odd..

 

WHY DIDN'T THEY TURN ON  A LIGHT? Seriously they just stood in a dark room discussing how Major shot someone. Neither of them thought to turn on a light.

 

As for Clive being all dismissive of Major. Um dude ? you didn't find any of those bullets Major fired... you didn't turn on a light to see if there are any signs of blood. No wonder you need a pale psychic to help you solve cases. YOU SUCK.

Edited May 14, 2015 by wayne67

[jhlipton]

WHY DIDN'T THEY TURN ON  A LIGHT? Seriously they just stood in a dark room discussing how Major shot someone. Neither of them thought to turn on a light.

Major tried the lights when he first got home, and they didn't work. I can fanwank that he told Clive that sometime offscreen.

[shapeshifter]

Re Candyman body armor: It would provide Major with a non-zombie explanation why his gunshot wounds/holes weren't bleeding.

[wayne67]

Major tried the lights when he first got home, and they didn't work. I can fanwank that he told Clive that sometime offscreen.

 

No flashlights or candles in the entire house ? Personally if my sanity was being questioned I'd find some way to prove I shot at someone...

 

How did giant Candyman get into the house ? was the door opened or something ?

Edited May 15, 2015 by wayne67

[MisterGlass]

I thought the implication was that he cut the power and broke in the back way.

 

Liv and the police lieutenant didn't bleed much either when they were shot.

[Conan Troutman]

There are ways heroes are allowed to kill. In cold blood at a distance is generally not one of them.

 

Which I find kind of sad. Why aren't heroes allowed to be pragmatic and rational, at least once in a while? I get that they need to be  closer to the bad guy for dramatic, storytelling purposes, but it's so cliché. No, they always have to act for emotional reasons and/or get themselves in danger. Would've been a nice change of pace if the writers had Liv simply shoot him. I hope the main reason why she wasn't allowed to do so was that they needed Blaine alive, possibly to help her unravel the whole utopium / Max Rager mystery, and this decision pays off in the end.

 

 It was great to see Bradley James again and I was hoping he would become part of the cast.  Damn...very wishful thinking I guess but at least he made a positive choice on his own.  If only Liv had made the shot!  I watched MERLIN on a lark because I wanted to see what Anthony Stewart Head (go Giles!) was doing and I can honestly say that I became enchanted with the series.  You know I loved it because I followed it from NBC to BBCA and then to SyFy.  Bradley James and Colin Morgan made a great team as Arthur and Merlin.  I tuned in just for the first episode and stayed for 5 Seasons.

 

I met ASH and the man is absolutely charming and down to earth, so I will always check out his projects if I know about them.

 

I didn't know ASH was in that. I might have to check that show out then.

 

Neither Major nor Clive have heard of body armor? Just how old is the story line that the writers are cribbing from? FWIW, I've heard that the shots Major fired might not have been enough to stop a big guy like that IRL and that's why cops are trained to keep firing when under attack, so there's a second explanation for why the "body" disapeared that Clive could have suggested.

 

I give Major a pass for not coming up with that idea, especially since he kind of saw the bullet holes and him dropping "dead". But that should've been Clive's first reaction: "Are you sure the guy didn't wear a bullet proof vest?"

 

As for Clive being all dismissive of Major. Um dude ? you didn't find any of those bullets Major fired... you didn't turn on a light to see if there are any signs of blood. No wonder you need a pale psychic to help you solve cases. YOU SUCK.

 

Ha! He did find a shell casing, so Major had to have fired shots. He really does seem to suffer from Lestrade syndrome...

[Ubiquitous]

At first, I thought the paint ball dude had been killed by a zombie that took a big bite out of his neck, then wondered why they concluded it was a gunshot wound.

Liv and Lowell should have feasted on the rest of the sniper's brains for this mission, if only so his influence and skillset didn't fade at a crucial point.

[BPOX]

Which I find kind of sad. Why aren't heroes allowed to be pragmatic and rational, at least once in a while? I get that they need to be  closer to the bad guy for dramatic, storytelling purposes, but it's so cliché. No, they always have to act for emotional reasons and/or get themselves in danger. Would've been a nice change of pace if the writers had Liv simply shoot him. I hope the main reason why she wasn't allowed to do so was that they needed Blaine alive, possibly to help her unravel the whole utopium / Max Rager mystery, and this decision pays off in the end.

 

Well, I think shooting someone in a preplanned way from a distance is clearly premeditated. If you have the time to plan it out, you probably have the time to think out an alternate solution. In a lot of the other situations the audience gut reaction is, well they didn't have a choice. With this sort of thing, well you should have exhausted your other options. Now I can think of cases where a hero would make this choice to kill preplanned at a distance and the audience would find it justified, but those would all be people who had been at it a while.  With an amateur like Liv it could happen, but then the next six month would be her wrestling with the consequences of her decision. And I'm not actually convinced that actually would have been the most pragmatic decision, there is the rest of this operation left and we've seen Blaine is not the only killer here.

[seacliffsal]

I think that Liv is totally responsible for Lowell's death.  She kept at him about the source of his brains then sold him on the need to kill Blaine.  She convinced him it was the right and only action.  He questioned her several times-are you sure?  Yes, it may have been the sniper brain at that point, but Lowell would never have set up this situation on his own.  What did she expect him to do at the point that she refused to shoot Blaine?  And, here is my biggest complaint about her-Blaine is already dead....he is a ZOMBIE...he is not a human.  Therefore, would killing someone who is already dead really be the same as killing someone who was...you know, alive?  She also chose her own comfort level over all the lives that were and will be taken by Blaine.

 

Yes, I know, it's only a t.v. show.  However, I had really been enjoying it but felt that she really let down Lowell as well as future victims.  

[wayne67]

You know what would have been more interesting is if Liv took the shot and Blaine died and she had to figure out what to do about that whole zombie undersupply issue because she never bothered to ask Lowel who turned him ages ago.

 

Honestly I'd rather the good guy had a bit of blood on their hand due to action than inaction. It's like how I always end up blaming Xavier for Magneto killing all those people because he never really tried that hard to do anything about him because of who he used to be. It's hard to accept a good guy as a good guy if they bail out whenever things become too difficult.

 

I really hope the next episode she feels some guilt over her inaction otherwise I'm going to bail.

[FurryFury]

she never bothered to ask Lowel who turned him ages ago.

 

She did. He lied to her and said he didn't know - but this episode, I think he said in was Blaine.

[Adira]

And, here is my biggest complaint about her-Blaine is already dead....he is a ZOMBIE...he is not a human.  Therefore, would killing someone who is already dead really be the same as killing someone who was...you know, alive?

 

I think in this universe, zombies aren't dead, but infected.  Remember, Ravi is looking for a cure.  Liv believes she might be cured of her zombism someday, and therefore feels like she is still human, just infected with the zombie virus.  So killing Blaine would be killing a person, since they believe zombies aren't technically dead.

[Moviesnob]

There's so much we don't know about zombies in this universe. Do they age? Can they have zombie babies? They don't appear to have the same type of blood flow (bleeding when injured) or have the same reaction to pain.  

[jhlipton]

There are ways heroes are allowed to kill. In cold blood at a distance is generally not one of them.

 

Which I find kind of sad. Why aren't heroes allowed to be pragmatic and rational, at least once in a while? I get that they need to be  closer to the bad guy for dramatic, storytelling purposes, but it's so cliché.

 

Well, I think shooting someone in a preplanned way from a distance is clearly premeditated.

Shooting from a distance is an assassination. It may be a highly justifiable one (as Liv killing Blaine would be) but it's still an assassination (when someone says "sniper", I usually think of a bad guy, "Day of the Jackal" kind of thing first). So shows have to be very careful when using long distance killings.

[Chris Gains]

I think that Liv is totally responsible for Lowell's death. She kept at him about the source of his brains then sold him on the need to kill Blaine. She convinced him it was the right and only action. He questioned her several times-are you sure? Yes, it may have been the sniper brain at that point, but Lowell would never have set up this situation on his own. What did she expect him to do at the point that she refused to shoot Blaine? And, here is my biggest complaint about her-Blaine is already dead....he is a ZOMBIE...he is not a human. Therefore, would killing someone who is already dead really be the same as killing someone who was...you know, alive? She also chose her own comfort level over all the lives that were and will be taken by Blaine.

Yes, I know, it's only a t.v. show. However, I had really been enjoying it but felt that she really let down Lowell as well as future victims.

I really admired Liv up into this show, but recently I've lost a lot of respect for her due to her lack of action. Particularly refusing to take out Blaine when she had the chance which cost Lowell his life. Major is also in danger of suffering the same fate since Liv refuses to tell him the truth about the zombie conspiracy. Coward.

Although I'm disappointed by Liv's character flaw, it just goes to show what a master Rob Thomas is at creating characters with depth. I loved Veronica Mars, but she was a piece of shit in her own ways too.

[saber5055]

Are we sure Lowell is really dead? Maybe he's only partly dead.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Or mostly dead. They just need to find Miracle Max!

[Julia]

Well, in either case, I'm pretty sure He Who Must Not Be Shot has snacked on Lowell's brains by now, so he knows about Liv's brilliant plan. I'm guessing when he comes after her (or sends the candyman) the time for kumbaya will pass quickly.

[AudienceofOne]

Zombies don't eat zombie's brains

[Julia]

Zombies don't eat zombie's brains

I'll bet when they want to know who was involved in the plot to kill them, they do.

[possibilities]

Lowell chose to try to stab Blaine. I don't think Liv knew he would do that. I think they share some responsibility for what happened, and that it was sad whether or not we can assign blame. In a way, Lowell having lied to Liv for so long contributed also. Her denial, his deception, her hesitation, his recklessness... they were both a combination of stupid and brave, and at some level both are the victims of Blaine, or whatever caused him to become a zombie. It's not a simple situation.

[BPOX]

Liv, Major and Lowell's forays into heroism are all pretty clumsy. Well meaning and all that, but not terribly well planned out. I like it. I'm hoping Clive can give them some tips in the future. Not that he seems like super cop himself, but he's got understand the basics a bit better. This is why they are always telling the audience insert characters to wait in the car.

 

The good news is Blaine doesn't seem that bright either. We've established the visions tend to be triggered by visual cues. All you need is a person or two insulation from the murderers and the delivery boys, dude.

[Ubiquitous]

Didn't Major shoot Blaine's henchman in the head? That's how it appeared to me, plus I am sure I heard that advice on the zombie YouTube video he was watching.

[Watcher0363]

Lowell-- You obviously graduated from the Beth Greene Stabbing Academy. 

 

Major-- You should have listened more closely to that video. Also some one of your age should be quite familiar with Mad Buck Gibson and the international Mozambique pattern.

 

Liv-- You need to eat the brains of a Holocaust survivor. So you can know the difference from, bad people and evil people. And the high price that comes from not being able to tell the difference. Also Liv did you fall asleep during your humanities classes. Because:  Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.

[sjohnson]

I don't believe Lowell, and never did. As for the explanation that he wasn't looking for a trigger? Blaine and Dupont are themselves triggers, always were. More BS, except the show seemed to insist we accept it.

[saber5055]

Is it that easy to get body armor for a person like Major? It's not like he's in law enforcement. And it's pretty clear he's acting irrationally at this point.

Everyday people can buy cop uniforms or any other uniform they want, plus buy bullet-proof vests. It's not difficult. I'm guessing Major never thought he'd need one though.

 

Kevlar vests aren't that bulky, cops wear them every day under their uniforms. So Big Guy really could have been wearing one. Bullets can still knock a person down and breathless, takes a while to get back up.

 

Big Guy knew Major was on to his brain scheme so he either cut the lights or pulled the breaker or whatever to Major's house. Good thing Ravi wasn't home, hey?

Edited May 16, 2015 by saber5055

[niklj]

The one thing I was most disappointed about in this episode was the argument between Lowell and Liv about where he got his brains from. She kept hammering on him about the source of his brains yet never addressing his argument that not everyone could have a steady non-guilty supply of brains like her. Like, really Liv, what would YOU do if you weren't an M.E. and someone was offering you some non-free range brains? I felt like that could've handled a lot better because, despite the tragedy of it being teen kids and Lowell semi-knowing the source, we never heard what Liv would do.

 

And that was kind of gross how apparently him being all wooby about eating the brains of a recently buried father is an aphrodisiac. That love scene did not need to stem from that.

 

The mystery of the week was boring as per usual.

 

Ravi is the best part of the show.

[Anela]

If Lowell really is dead, I'm gonna need him to head to Once Upon a Time. They're already making Merlin references. It could be some kind of OUaT/iZombie exchange program.

 

But, Lowell, don't be dead. I don't like Bradley James characters dying. Headshot seems to say dead, but maybe their zombies are different. There was a distinct lack of confirmation either way in the promo.

He's apparently the lead in a Lifetime show - Damian. Check his twitter account, because he posted something there.

[Adira]

Didn't Major shoot Blaine's henchman in the head? That's how it appeared to me, plus I am sure I heard that advice on the zombie YouTube video he was watching.

 

No, he shot him in the chest three times.  And he wasn't watching a zombie killing YouTube video because he still has no idea about zombies.  He was just watching a video about where to shoot to kill and the video showed shooting the head or the chest and Major shot the chest.

[dcalley]

And that was kind of gross how apparently him being all wooby about eating the brains of a recently buried father is an aphrodisiac. That love scene did not need to stem from that.

Agreed, that was gross.

[Ubiquitous]

I don't believe Lowell, and never did. As for the explanation that he wasn't looking for a trigger? Blaine and Dupont are themselves triggers, always were. More BS, except the show seemed to insist we accept it.

I thought he was simply in denial.

[aradia22]

Nooooo! I loved Lowell and his Perfect Boyfriend Syndrome and his shirtlessness and his British accent.

 

Don't get me wrong. I still love watching Liv but Major is going on a much more interesting journey as a character. I feel like Liv is still subject to the whims of the writers and the plot demands. Oh, now she can't shoot Blaine. Suuure. But Major is growing as a character in an organic way based on the things that have been happening and that he's been learning. But he's still the same guy. He doesn't make the leaps that Liv does because of the influence of the brains she's eating (/because the writers thought it'd be a good idea). See the way his hands shook loading the bullets and the way he leaned over to dry heave after firing the first two shots. 

 

Back to Liv. She had no problem going after other criminals, notably the police officer whose car she jumped on. And what about the Asian mafia episode where she was trading blows with that guy? Sure, she was under the influence of her zombie anger/adrenaline but I dislike writer convenient moralizing, especially when characters will do everything short of pulling the trigger. It also made her weak (not the decision to not kill Blaine but everything afterwards) in a way that she has been very rarely so far. 

[aradia22]

 

It might have been funny if Ravi started craving rat brains, instead of human brains. But I guess it's not that kind of show. I wouldn't have wanted them to commit to having him dealing with that for the rest of the show's life.

Damn it. Now I'll be disappointed if this doesn't happen.

 

Not Lowell.  Dammit.  I really liked their relationship.  It wasn't (until recently) full of drama, angst, will they/won't they crap.  It was refreshing.  Plus, the actors had good chemistry.  *sigh*  Ummm if he really is gone, maybe we can have a twin running around?

Yes! The Damien show he's been cast on sounds too much like real horror to me. iZombie doesn't bother me but I'm a wuss with real horror, even if it's mostly psychological or jump scares. I like this twin idea, even just as a way for him to return if the Damien show doesn't work out.

 

The first time Ravi examined Lowell, they had a few minutes of sciencey talk which Lowell explained was the result of the brains he had recently eaten.

Very good point. Did a med student wander down to the skate park? Who else has Blaine been killing? How long can the corrupt police... (can't think of the word right now) cover it up if they have friends/family/etc. who will want answers?

 

WHY DIDN'T THEY TURN ON  A LIGHT? Seriously they just stood in a dark room discussing how Major shot someone. Neither of them thought to turn on a light.

Oh my God. I'm laughing so hard at this. 

 

Big Guy knew Major was on to his brain scheme so he either cut the lights or pulled the breaker or whatever to Major's house. Good thing Ravi wasn't home, hey?

Seriously. I was wondering where he was/how the Candyman knew he wouldn't be home/why he never showed up even when Babineaux came over. 

 

He's apparently the lead in a Lifetime show - Damian. Check his twitter account, because he posted something there.

Wait -Lifetime? That means if it's anything like Lizzie Borden, I'll totally be able to handle it. Yay!

[hincandenza]

On 5/12/2015 at 8:38 PM, CinnamonCat said:

I just saw that the writers' Twitter account posted this picture:

 

 

While Major's hiding his gun in the drawer, there's a book by Anton Chekhov on top of the drawer. Brilliant.

Ha!  I just started watching this show a couple of nights ago (on Netflix) and as soon as this episode ended I came here to make this very comment on the forum; I also el-oh-el'ed when I saw that slow pan to Uncle Vanya.  I like those little production easter eggs you see in shows, not part of the plot or anything but a fun shout out to a trope, or a cast member's past work, or some famous artistic predecessor.

On 5/12/2015 at 9:28 PM, possibilities said:

They need a plan for more than stopping Blaine. If his entire client list suddenly lost its access to brains, how long til they all go full zombie like the woman they found and were not able to restore with brains that came too late? There are so many zombies now, they need something like a funeral parlor or cemetery business to keep an orderly supply, coupled with a pledge not to turn anyone else, and monitoring to make sure everyone sticks to it, until Ravi can find a cure. The police captain zombie ought to be putting his energy into hat, instead of into cover ups and collusion. Was he corrupt before his zombification, I wonder?

Totally agree; I'm typing this as I watch, a year and a half or so after this aired, but whether Blaine is the top of the heap (doubtful, I'm sure without even looking that there is a trope for each season revealing that the last Big Bad was only a henchman of the next Big Bad, ad nauseum) or not, they really need to think bigger than Blaine when it comes to the zombie apocalypse.  What I do like about this show is that in one sense, it's the most scientifically true depiction of how zombieism would spread; if it were really an instant-infection permanent psychotic rage virus or the like, it'd propagate to fast (and kill too many hosts) to ever break out of a small area.  Something that readily transfers, is a source of shame to be hidden, and otherwise leaves its victims capable of living normal lives... that actually makes sense, since it's the mechanism of an STD.  It's not clear why more people who get infected don't go to the doctor, and somehow instantly know they are a zombie.

I do have a couple of questions I hope get at least partly solved, beyond the "where did it come from" metaquestion (i.e., is the lethal combo of Max Rager and Utopium intentional): first, why on earth haven't Ravi and Liv contacted the CDC?  I mean, that would of course completely change the nature of the show, and we all know the Hollywood version would be martial law and chaos, but I mean... this is a serious thing!  And in-show, Ravi was at least smart enough to realize how disastrous the rat escaping would be, so at the least, they should be letting smarter scientists investigate this, even if in a confidential setting.  Second, why exactly hasn't the captain/whomever (who, and I hate to say this, is really getting to me with his wooden acting) done anything to contain Blaine?  I mean, at this point they've probably got enough dirt to bring him down with them, but it should have never gotten that far- he could have come up with a dozen reasons or methods to legally or illegally capture Blaine and turn the tables.  As Liv and others have shown, people remain themselves when they're not hungry/angry.  So was he always a really dirty cop, such that upon being infected he was totally cool with homicide to feed his habit, or...?  I'm still not clear what we were supposed to take from the shootout at the farm house; did Blaine and/or the captain know those people already, since obviously they had to plant the bodies ahead of time and presumably with the agreement of the people living there!

Edited November 16, 2016 by hincandenza

[hincandenza]

On 5/15/2015 at 3:44 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Or mostly dead. They just need to find Miracle Max!

Don't you mean... Miracle Max Rager? :)

[sjohnson]

The continuing story line just keeps getting more and more convoluted, which is to say, weaker in my opinion. It feels to me like they've slipped into the soap habit of re-writing characters in service of histrionics. Notably, turning Major from the desperate hero who took down Meat Cute and would rather die than be a zombie into a publicly outed Chaos Killer chowing down on brains? Cases of the week are much maligned, but to me it's the cases that provided most of the real dramatic finality and the real heart.

[AllyB]

On 11/16/2016 at 8:39 AM, hincandenza said:

first, why on earth haven't Ravi and Liv contacted the CDC?  I mean, that would of course completely change the nature of the show, and we all know the Hollywood version would be martial law and chaos, but I mean... this is a serious thing!  And in-show, Ravi was at least smart enough to realize how disastrous the rat escaping would be, so at the least, they should be letting smarter scientists investigate this, even if in a confidential setting.

Partly because in show Ravi is possibly smarter than his former colleagues. He was fired from the CDC because he was considered too paranoid about this kind of infection.