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S01.E09: Patriot Brains


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They've been a bit inconsistent with this. Lowell changed when he ate gay-brains, but hasn't too much otherwise.I'll have to think on it some more and see if there's any pattern with the two guys.

I've read it as the zombies pick up some character traits of the brains eaten but don't get any memory flashes unless there's a visual trigger -- which most aren't getting because they don't go poking into the brains' owners lives like Liv does.

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I've read it as the zombies pick up some character traits of the brains eaten but don't get any memory flashes unless there's a visual trigger -- which most aren't getting because they don't go poking into the brains' owners lives like Liv does.

 

But what character traits has Blaine shown?  Or Lowell, other than the one time?

 

===================

 

As much as I don't like Liv not taking the shot, that is who she is.  She couldn't kill her friend who was much less of a person than Blaine and who was attacking Ravi, until she slipped into attack-zombie mode.  It's kind of refreshing to have a female lead on a show like this who is a strong person but who won't kill.

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I'm not sure I read the sociopath episode the same. My take was that the sociopath brain was what wanted to watch while Ravi got eaten, and it was Liv who went into protective zombie mode. I think her not taking the shot was plot-driven and contrived.

My current theory about the traits is that it's like genes, a matter of dominance. Liv was kind of a lukewarm character, so she picks up traits stronger than hers. Lowell was (sniff) laid back about sex, and I guess the guy whose brain he ate wasn't. For better or for worse, Blaine is a strong-minded mass-murdering drug dealer, and he preys on kids. He probably doesn't run into brains strong enough to even register with him too often.

Edited by Julia
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As much as I don't like Liv not taking the shot, that is who she is.  She couldn't kill her friend who was much less of a person than Blaine and who was attacking Ravi, until she slipped into attack-zombie mode....

They did a good job, IMO, for making the case for her not taking the shot with the flashbacks to her medical school do-no-harm oath. Plus, didn't they also have a voice-over of her hoping the military brains wouldn't wear off too soon? Or was that a voice-over inside my own head?

Anyway, they had her not take the shot for the story they wanted to tell, which I thought was refreshingly not clichéd, even though it was heartbreaking.

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It might have been funny if Ravi started craving rat brains, instead of human brains. But I guess it's not that kind of show. I wouldn't have wanted them to commit to having him dealing with that for the rest of the show's life.

 

Besides the gay thing, the only time I can think of when Lowell spoke of having picked up a trait from his meal is that he told Liv he'd had the brains of someone with anxiety, and that's why he had pills to help Liv deal with her agoraphobic's brain.

 

I think they need to cut Major into the secret. He's going crazy, or going to get tagged that way, and he's not going to give up on his quest, so he might as well have the facts he needs to make his efforts fully informed. I thought his pituitary idea was logical enough (though creepy as hell), and his relentless pursuit of the truth about the kids speaks well of his character. Unlike Liv, who until now was completely ignoring the gravity of the situation around her, Major is putting himself on the line, has already lost his job, and is going to get himself killed if he doesn't get the truth. I think he deserves that much respect from Liv. And I guess they killed Lowell because they want to keep Major as the OTP. At least you can see why Liv liked him-- he may be a bit boring in an everyday way, but he cares about people who could use (and rarely get) support, and he's relentless in his passion for justice, and those are not bad qualities to have, especially if you're prone to looking the other way like Liv has shown herself to be.

 

I am ambivalent about Liv not taking the shot. If she had realized killing Blaine was not the only way, or not enough alone to really stop the zombie troubles, I would have been more clear about it. She could have texted Lowell that she wanted to try a different approach. There are different options, and if the forum has already come up with several, surely the showrunners are smart enough to do the same. The way they played it, though, I feel mixed about it. They didn't show Liv realizing there were alternatives, or that the situation was more complex than she'd originally thought about. They choice to make her just gut-unwilling to do it is a more ambiguous characterization. Maybe she just couldn't articulate her deeper knowing that there are better ways, or maybe she's just squeamish and overly sentimental about guys who like music, or unwilling to get her hands dirty. We'll see.

 

On "Chuck," they kept Chunk unwilling to kill, but he was on a team with others who assassinated regularly-- and I was ambivalent about that, also. It's convenient to delegate all the killing, knowing that your partners will kill on your behalf, or to abstain from killing but stay on a team that does it all the time without apologies and doesn't even bother to try other methods. They sometimes played it that Chuck was special, had special abilities, and could get around the killing because of his special skills. But they never said he could go into the field without an assassin as back up, nor did they imply that the assassins on his team were wrong to kill without remorse with or without Chuck's ways as an alternative. And eventually they posed the alternative of using tranq guns instead of bullets or Chuck's special brain to get him out of the murder obligation, and they still didn't suggest the rest of his team should try it. I never could figure out what message that was supposed to send.  A desire not to kill is cute and quirky, but for normal people, murder is the best approach?

 

In theory, I like the idea that killing is not the way and that a show could be developed around that idea. I just hope they don't cop out, or make it one of those things girls don't do that boys are better suited for (gag), because Liv has really been way too passive all season, not even thinking about what would happen after she met Blaine, didn't share her brain supply with him, and didn't wonder what he was doing all this time.

Edited by possibilities
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But what character traits has Blaine shown? Or Lowell, other than the one time?

I don't feel like we've spent enough time with Blaine and Lowell to know for sure. I mean, take Blaine's obsession with Kurt Cobain this episode. That could just be from consuming a random Gen-Xer. We have no way of knowing what Blaine's interests are or if it's from a brain.

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I don't feel like we've spent enough time with Blaine and Lowell to know for sure. I mean, take Blaine's obsession with Kurt Cobain this episode. That could just be from consuming a random Gen-Xer. We have no way of knowing what Blaine's interests are or if it's from a brain.

 

That'd be interesting, because it would mean that Blaine either couldn't separate his own memories from the memories of his victims,  or he's adopting backstories he prefers to his own (which, come to think of it, I could see him doing).

 

In the case of the music, though, I think signs point to it being Blaine's trait. He did say he remembered a classmate telling him about Cobain's death, presumably because she knew about the obsession, which seems to be a fairy trivial incident over the course of a lifetime for a random Gen Xer to show up and stick while a single brain was in his system. Lowell also said that Blaine was fanboying him to the point where he thought that was why Blaine turned him. For that trait to last from however long ago that was to the present would mean they linger way longer than we've seen so far. 

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Whisky Tango Foxtrot. 

 

Not Lowell.  Dammit.  I really liked their relationship.  It wasn't (until recently) full of drama, angst, will they/won't they crap.  It was refreshing.  Plus, the actors had good chemistry.  *sigh*  Ummm if he really is gone, maybe we can have a twin running around? 

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I think they need to cut Major into the secret.

 

I can see this happening in the season finale. They can't keep Major or Clive in the dark forever.

 

I figured Lowell wasn't forever, but I didn't think he'd be killed off this early. It's a good way to shake up Liv, though, even as it's sad.

Edited by dubbel zout
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That'd be interesting, because it would mean that Blaine either couldn't separate his own memories from the memories of his victims, or he's adopting backstories he prefers to his own (which, come to think of it, I could see him doing).

In the case of the music, though, I think signs point to it being Blaine's trait. He did say he remembered a classmate telling him about Cobain's death, presumably because she knew about the obsession, which seems to be a fairy trivial incident over the course of a lifetime for a random Gen Xer to show up and stick while a single brain was in his system. Lowell also said that Blaine was fanboying him to the point where he thought that was why Blaine turned him. For that trait to last from however long ago that was to the present would mean they linger way longer than we've seen so far.

Dang, I had forgotten about Blaine's Cobain story. Ok, bad example. But I do still stand by the explanation of not having seen enough of his character to tell when he's picking up brain traits.

I found the Cobain thing interesting because he had just been the topic of discussion between me and some family members last weekend. There was an HBO special that just ran.

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Dang, I had forgotten about Blaine's Cobain story. Ok, bad example. But I do still stand by the explanation of not having seen enough of his character to tell when he's picking up brain traits.

 

No, I don't think we have, and you also make the interesting point that Blaine is the ultimate unreliable narrator, so we can't necessarily trust what he has to say about himself.

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Aw shucks, I knew Lowell was temporary, but they've redeemed him and then killed him :( I mean, this is what I would have done with a temporary LI, but still, sucks. Such a waste of chemistry (and hotness).

 

The case this week was really, really meh. No real development. I'm not sure they should have done a real case. Could have just gone with Liv eating a sniper's brain, no murder mystery.

 

Also, it made me remember Wallace used to be an engineering major. I mean, I know he became a teacher in the movie, but still...

 

I kinda hated that Liv didn't shoot Blaine. I mean, it makes all kinds of sense, both from character standpoint and narrative standpoint, but why, oh why? And I'm saying it as a person who enjoys Blaine. He's such a bastard.

 

Wonder what was the point of Ravi being bitten. Pretty sure there was one, it's just not obvious yet.

 

That drives me freaking up the wall! Seriously, I like Buffy's (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer) stance on it. If if's evil, you kill it.

Er, actually, Buffy only killed demons and vampires. She was incapable of killing an evil human, it was even a plot point. And in this world, zombies are human, for all purposes.

 

There is a third option between killing someone and letting them wander free without consequence for mass murder it's called neutralisation. Aang a 12 year old pacifist protagonist in The Last Airbender did it with energy bending

Aang was handed a Deus Ex Machina, Liv wasn't. Don't compare them. In a less forgiving world, Aang would have fucked up majorly because of his hesitation, but it was a kid's show, despite being so awesome otherwise.

 

Liv's reaction is consistent with her characterization and shows that even brains can't influence you to do something that's absolutely abhorrent to you on a deep level. However, I understand people who have a problem with it (and I also do), because this trope is played out in fiction, especially the fiction of this genre. That said, we don't know if it will be played straight all the way. I mean, the story itself tends to congratulate the hero from refraining from killing. In the best case, a less morally uptight sidekick will kill the villain the hero cannot (Giles in BtVS). But maybe here, we will see the real-world consequences, and Liv will be sorry she didn't kill Blaine and we'll learn that she probably should have. So I'll hold my judgment until then.

Edited by FurryFury
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If Lowell is really dead, then I'm not sure I can continue with this show. It was "okay" before Lowell, but majorly (no pun intended) EXCELLENT with Lowell. I strongly dislike Major and wish he had been the one shot.

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If Lowell is really dead, then I'm not sure I can continue with this show. It was "okay" before Lowell, but majorly (no pun intended) EXCELLENT with Lowell. I strongly dislike Major and wish he had been the one shot.

I am going to go to the end of the season and see what happens.  I really hate that Liv chickened out on shooting Blaine and I don't know if I can continue to watch her, although I would miss Ravi and the white rat.

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Guys, seriously? I mean, I liked Lowell, but he was a pretty shallow character (with the key word being "pretty"). I mean, I would have been furious if he were some really interesting and deep character who was killed just to get Liv with Major, but... he wasn't. He could have been more, but it's just too early to judge.

IMHO, of course.

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It's convenient to delegate all the killing, knowing that your partners will kill on your behalf

 

It lets your main character be "unsullied".  Killing, especially at a distance, carries a ton of moral freight with it.  Even Major only "killed" (or tried to kill) in pure self-defense.

 

I mean, if Batman can "pride" himself on not killing, even with the blood of all of Joker's (and Penguin's and Riddler's and...) victims on his hands, I think I'm tempted to give Liv a pass -- at least this time.

 

(And by not taking the shot, they gave us a lot more to talk about!  LOL

Edited by jhlipton
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Are we really judging a character for not being able to blow somebody's head off in cold blood?

 

I am. If he's actually human, he's a cannibal who turned her into a cannibal, deliberately creates other cannibals, and feeds chldren to them for a profit. He's taken over the local drug market. He's insulated himself effectively from being taken down by the authorities by corrupting local law enforcement. He's attempted to have her former fiancé killed, and he murdered someone she cared about in front of her eyes. He's planning to go into targeted serial killing for additional profit. So, yeah, I'm absolutely judging her for thinking how she feels about saving the world from him is more important than saving the world from him. 

 

If he's not actually human, he still did all that stuff and shooting him has no more moral implications than pouring salt on a leech, and yeah, still judging her.

Edited by Julia
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Objectively speaking, maybe. But there's nothing objective about her position with somebody's head in her crosshairs. And if he's not human, neither is she. She's not the Slayer who kills vampires who are demons. Blaine is a zombie and so is she. And if zombies are nothing but a virus that should be eradicated then that applies to her too. And if it's not about being a zombie but about his behaviour then, well, civilised people don't blow other people's heads off for their behaviour.  Sure as viewers we've worked out there's no normal societal response available but she hasn't gone through that journey yet. Even Buffy took half a season to be able to kill Angel and she knew for sure he wasn't human.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't be able to do it and I'm not a trained doctor who thought they'd be devoting their lives to saving people. Liv eats brains but she does it because she'll still motivated by that desire to help people. People like that can't just kill people. And they shouldn't be able to.

Edited by AudienceofOne
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Besides the gay thing, the only time I can think of when Lowell spoke of having picked up a trait from his meal is that he told Liv he'd had the brains of someone with anxiety, and that's why he had pills to help Liv deal with her agoraphobic's brain.

The first time Ravi examined Lowell, they had a few minutes of sciencey talk which Lowell explained was the result of the brains he had recently eaten.

Are we really judging a character for not being able to blow somebody's head off in cold blood?

She knows that Blaine is murdering kids. Let's take out the fact that he's doing it for profit for the moment. She knows for a fact that he is a zombie who is murdering kids.

Like Buffy on BtVS or Barry on The Flash (and most of the time Nick on Grimm), Liv knows that this is not something that can be stopped by going to the police because (1) they wouldn't believe her and (2) there isn't enough proof (3) putting zombies, vampires, meta humans, or wesen in regular jail isn't the answer.

On top of that, she now knows that something is going on within the police department because they added the homeless kids to the cult couple's crimes.

Letting Blaine live is passively allowing him to continue killing innocent people. Maybe Liv can't pull the literal trigger but what are her other options? Will she be smart enough to lure him into a trap? Strong enough to knock him out and drag him off to a homemade zombie prison? Of just let him keep killing people and hope that she won't know any of his future victims?

I realize that taking a life should be difficult so I am fine with Liv not being gleeful about it, but I don't want her to stand idly by à la Duncan Kane.

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Guys, seriously? I mean, I liked Lowell, but he was a pretty shallow character (with the key word being "pretty"). I mean, I would have been furious if he were some really interesting and deep character who was killed just to get Liv with Major, but... he wasn't. He could have been more, but it's just too early to judge.

IMHO, of course.

Agree. I liked the show before he was on and while he did add an enjoyable spark, I'll still like the show (well, depending on how it goes).

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Even Buffy took half a season to be able to kill Angel and she knew for sure he wasn't human.

 

This wasn't caused by her reluctance to kill in general (like it is with Liv), but by her being in love with him, though. Not a good parallel.

 

Like Buffy on BtVS or Barry on The Flash (and most of the time Nick on Grimm), Liv knows that this is not something that can be stopped by going to the police because (1) they wouldn't believe her and (2) there isn't enough proof (3) putting zombies, vampires, meta humans, or wesen in regular jail isn't the answer.

 

Oh come on, Barry would never kill Blaine at this point. He's just lucky that unlike Liv, he has superspeed and a convenient way to imprison them (well, he used to, and it bit him in the ass).

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Eh, I was kinda iffy on the show anyway. Ravi's general awesomeness and the Ravi/Liv frienship (love that he calls Liv out and that she understands when he does) are really the only reasons that I watch. I don't care about most of the rest of the show and actively dislike many aspects (particularly Major and Liv's family). Lowell in the plus column was tipping the scales to the continue watching side. Without him, I'm basically back at equilibrium, where I'm fine watching it, but I don't necessarily care if I miss it. And it's not like he was even a big part of the show, so even with him I probably wouldn't have been a regular viewer if not for The Flash as its lead in.

Quite honestly though, I'm feeling pretty meh on The Flash lately too, so my Tuesday nights might be free next fall (assuming the schedule doesn't change).

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Exactly.  But you also wondered why Liv didn't shoot Blaine afterward.  She dismantled the gun before Blaine shot Lowell. She had no effective weapon by that time.  But, yeah, stupid and selfish.  I expect more from my heroines.

 

The sniper rifle wasn't dismantled into component parts it was only mildly disconnected as she was cradling the dam thing post Lowel murder. I would have been fine with her being shocked for 10 seconds before standing up with a repaired gun with Blaine nowhere in sight. I don't mind so much that Blaine survives to kill again but it bothers me that the 'hero' is so passive when it's important. Instead using her power to randomly assault murder suspects/ murders with zombie strength.

I kinda hated that Liv didn't shoot Blaine. I mean, it makes all kinds of sense, both from character standpoint and narrative standpoint, but why, oh why? And I'm saying it as a person who enjoys Blaine. He's such a bastard.

 

Wonder what was the point of Ravi being bitten. Pretty sure there was one, it's just not obvious yet.

 

Aang was handed a Deus Ex Machina, Liv wasn't. Don't compare them. In a less forgiving world, Aang would have fucked up majorly because of his hesitation, but it was a kid's show, despite being so awesome otherwise.

 

Liv's reaction is consistent with her characterization and shows that even brains can't influence you to do something that's absolutely abhorrent to you on a deep level. However, I understand people who have a problem with it (and I also do), because this trope is played out in fiction, especially the fiction of this genre. That said, we don't know if it will be played straight all the way. I mean, the story itself tends to congratulate the hero from refraining from killing. In the best case, a less morally uptight sidekick will kill the villain the hero cannot (Giles in BtVS). But maybe here, we will see the real-world consequences, and Liv will be sorry she didn't kill Blaine and we'll learn that she probably should have. So I'll hold my judgment until then.

 

It's not so much that I want Blaine dead as I wanted Liv to do something in that situation instead of baulk and cower out of sight. I want my protagonist to DO SOMETHING. I'm not fussed what as long as it's something mildly interesting. Waxing lyrical about the hypocratic oath when you're dealing with a zombie who keeps deliberately infecting people to increase his power base with the brains and lives of dead teenagers is FRUSTRATING AS HELL.

 

I took Ravi being bitten as another sign that Liv is very passive in the search for a zombie cure. Instead of lying in bed staring at the ceiling she could be working overtime monitoring the rats while he sleeps.

 

True Aang's re avatar ness and energy bending was a deus ex machina solution but at least Aang spent half a season trying to figure out a way to save the world without killing Ozai. He put thought into the problem, he weighed his duty as the Avatar against his own moral stance and he consulted with past Avatars for their counsel.

 

Liv on the other hand came up with a half assed plan exposing her bf to risk if it went wrong and lost her nerve at the pivotal moment and after her bf died did nothing. Maybe next episode she will be motivated to hunt down Blaine with a better thought out plan but I somehow doubt it based on her character history.

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Liv on the other hand came up with a half assed plan exposing her bf to risk if it went wrong and lost her nerve at the pivotal moment and after her bf died did nothing.

 

She only came up with this plan while influenced by the sniper's brain. I think it's made clear she'd never do it otherwise.

 

As for what she's done, she was understandably shocked, and I do hope she'll (rightly) blame herself and will become more proactive after that.

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I was shocked and saddened by the Lowell death. But it looks like it can be a turning point for Liv. The episode was great and I was finally a bit interested in Major's arc.

Ps: When I saw Wallace all I kept doing was mental math to figure out if he was old enough to date a woman with a kid that big... then it downed on me that VMars was over ten years ago.

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She only came up with this plan while influenced by the sniper's brain. I think it's made clear she'd never do it otherwise.

 

As for what she's done, she was understandably shocked, and I do hope she'll (rightly) blame herself and will become more proactive after that.

The same sniper brain that made her highly skilled at hiding and setting up ambushes for paintballers didn't involve any tactical planning for the military concept of SNAFU?

 

I hope she becomes more proactive otherwise this show will end up in the scrap heap along with The Flash. I'm not fond of stupid protagonists who are supposed to be smart.

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The same sniper brain that made her highly skilled at hiding and setting up ambushes for paintballers didn't involve any tactical planning for the military concept of SNAFU?

The brains' effects aren't consistent, I think it's been made pretty clear (but should probably be explored - say, by Ravi).

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Objectively speaking, maybe.

Which is all I'm saying. Does it suck? Yep. Is it abhorrent to her? Apparently, although she sure shook off killing her friend in that pit pretty fast, because she was protecting Ravi, someone concrete she knew and cared about, so it was something that had to be done.

JMO, all those dead kids are way less abstract than how bad it's going to make her feel to do the right thing. Her fastidousness is certainly way more abstract than Lowell dying that she may Hamlet. And I'm unconvinced that she sees her own zombie state as being anything like anyone else's, or Ravi wouldn't have to have pointed that out to her weeks after she, as far as she knows, made it necessary for Blaine to hunt brains.

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Guys, seriously? I mean, I liked Lowell, but he was a pretty shallow character (with the key word being "pretty").

 

 

Lowell ...  pretty. Me ... shallow. So yeah. Heh. Besides, I liked Liv having a Hottie McHotstuff in her life after the cold boringness that is Major.

Edited by saber5055
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I don't judge Liv too harshly for not killing Blaine. I think it was obvious to me anyway that she wouldn't be able to go through with it. Liv is not a killer. She has only killed under duress in the past and you have to really care about human life to want to be a doctor.

I think she got caught up in the brains she ate and she came up with a plan she couldn't carry off.

In her defense she had no idea that Lowell was going to fo what he did after she had called the plan off. Poor Lowell. He definitely wasn't my favorite character but I didn't think he was going to go out like that.

I do think that this series of events will mature Liv a little. Like Ravi pointed out to her, her zombie life has been pretty easy. I also don't think she realizes how seriously bad Blaine is til now. I think she had an idea but he had never killed anyone close to her til now.

I'm excited to see where Major's storyline is going. I hope that Liv and Ravi let him in on the secret before his descent into madness goes too deep.

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I also don't think she realizes how seriously bad Blaine is til now. I think she had an idea but he had never killed anyone close to her til now.

Except those people she watched him murder from inside their heads.

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I think it's different when it's someone you know/loved. She kind of knew Jerome but it's not the same level of knowing that Major had. And I imagine his reaction to knowing what happened to Jerome would be on a different level than Liv's.

It's kind of like watching the news. You feel bad when something terrible happens to someone but you really feel it if had happened to someone you actually were close with. Ymmv.

Despite everything she knew about Blaine, Liv was still surprised by what he did to Lowell. Seeing him in action I don't think she would hesitate to take the shot a second time.

Edited by blugirlami21
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Except those people she watched him murder from inside their heads.

 

This is what bothers me a lot about quite a few American shows. The hero doesn't care about the activities of the villain until it encroaches seriously on their personal life, family friends or lovers. That teenager she met a few weeks ago and whose murder led her ex to be beaten quite severely... MEH... Doesn't impact much.

 

Death of lover? might prompt some action eventually. Threat of brother being eaten super smack down time during season finale... most likely.

 

That cop should owe her quite a few favors after the 9 cases she helped him solve with her 'visions' , perhaps she could have included him in investigations of the ZOMBIE King... or at least clued Major in as she knows he's still pursuing the death of that teenager. It's all so incredibly frustrating.

 

I'm not sure how many more episodes of her enjoying her zombie high life while more teenagers are slaughtered I can stand. This plot line needs to be resolved sooner rather than later and yet I have this horrible feeling it'll be dragged out...

 

 

Despite everything she knew about Blaine, Liv was still surprised by what he did to Lowell. Seeing him in action I don't think she would hesitate to take the shot a second time.

 

She still had the rifle in her hands after Lowell was killed and she did nothing...

Edited by wayne67
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I expect Major to be brought in on the secret soon. I don't see them putting him through all this just to keep him in the dark much longer. Clive will probably not know for a while.

I liked Lowell as well, but I figured he'd be gone soon. I do wish we saw other zombies display more personality changes as a result of the brains they eat - it just seems so prominent in Liv.

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Drat, I did like Lowell.  I give the show credit for giving him his grave digging monologue.  It was sad and sincere, and it's good they acknowledged beyond Baline's descriptions what it would be like to have to fend for yourself as a zombie.  I hope the mood doesn't get reset to neutral and upbeat immediately next episode, because this should take some getting over.

 

Glad Ravi isn't a zombie.

 

Major is a really terrible investigator.  It's time he and Liv and Ravi sit down and have a talk.

 

ETA: With Lowell putting his hand over his heart and Blaine's Cobain obsession, did anybody else think about Eddie Vedder appearing on SNL with a K over his heart?

Edited by MisterGlass
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Liv has killed a dangerous zombie before, and went through no angst about whether or not that had meant that she was now a hitman instead of a doctor. So, what the fuck happened? She accidentally found and ate some Ghandi brain right in the middle of an action scene? Stupid, stupid writing.

And Major? Way to be ready for action there. "Please chase me very, very slowly, Mr. Giant Thug, sir. I need five or ten minutes to very slowly fumble a few bullets into my gun."

 

What seems to be forgotten in the discussion of how Liv should have taken the shot is that sniper brain that she was on had PTSD. It's generally very hard for most people to kill other people.  As I understand, one of the big things that gives people PTSD is the feeling of moral injury. It's often not so much being terrorized, but a sense of guilt over what folks have done that haunts people. So, the conflicting drive to kill Blaine and the strong emotional resistance at the thought makes sense from the point of view of Liv and more importantly also the sniper. He's killed people, and may well be conflicted about that. We know he's raged out at his family scaring his ex wife and daughter, he probably loathes himself a bit for it. So he's helping her feel that conflict sharply.

 

Annoying that all soldiers in TV drama land have PTSD, but so it is.

 

As far as the third way, yeah she should probably try and find it. But heroines were not built in a day.

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(edited)

On the one hand you have the "This time it's personal", which coming from someone who doesn't feel assed to do their job until someone close is threatened or killed makes me nauseous.  On the other hand, with Liv it is going to be different from knowing someone's been murdered (and she only experienced fairly recently, mixed in with all the other murders she's seen) and watching someone she cares for getting his z-brains blown out.

 

There seems to be this big "heroes don't kill" thing going (the quote is from Once Upon a Time).  I think some shows are a little too kill-crazy (24), but there are times when heroes have to kill.

Edited by jhlipton
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Liv is still pretty new at this zombie stuff. I wonder if we'll hear her say something about "if only I'd eaten more sniper brains before I went on the roof." Or is it like being hypnotized in that you can't be convinced to do anything you wouldn't normally do?

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There are ways heroes are allowed to kill. In cold blood at a distance is generally not one of them.

 

Usually shows set people up to kill in the midst of a heated fight, by accident, to prevent another's murder, or the one that annoys me the most is when the bad guy conveniently kills himself.

 

 

 

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(edited)

There are ways heroes are allowed to kill. In cold blood at a distance is generally not one of them.

 

Usually shows set people up to kill in the midst of a heated fight, by accident, to prevent another's murder, or the one that annoys me the most is when the bad guy conveniently kills himself.

I've always hated that last one. Which is why I couldn't stand Smallville after a couple of seasons of all the teenagers infected with space rocks being killed by the writers in ridiculous manner so Clark wouldn't have to bother...

 

I'm fairly sure they were going with the concept that Liv didn't take the shot because of her hypocratic oath not because of PTSD... Anyway sniper's wife said HE couldn't stand watching any more of his friends die (or something of that nature) which is why he bailed on Afghanistan. Though I could be wrong, I pay very little attention to the episodes as they are fairly formulaic with the Case of the Week plot arcs.

 

This show reminds me a lot of Dollhouse with the main character going through a different personality every other week... It's kind of a jarring premise when you don't know who the main character is because you're not sure how much remnants of past brains is effecting her.

Edited by wayne67
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I just saw that the writers' Twitter account posted this picture:

 

CE2QO40VAAAK0ua.jpg

 

While Major's hiding his gun in the drawer, there's a book by Anton Chekhov on top of the drawer. Brilliant.

 

I forgot to say I LOL'ed at the idea that Major is currently reading Chekov. But: nice call back: Uncle Vanya and Zombies premiered in November 2012 at Kennedy Theatre in Honolulu. Now I am curious if they meant to go so deep on the reference or if I spend too much time on the internet.

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I think they might have been going for Chekhov's gun: "If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there."

Edited by Julia
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 It was great to see Bradley James again and I was hoping he would become part of the cast.  Damn...very wishful thinking I guess but at least he made a positive choice on his own.  If only Liv had made the shot!  I watched MERLIN on a lark because I wanted to see what Anthony Stewart Head (go Giles!) was doing and I can honestly say that I became enchanted with the series.  You know I loved it because I followed it from NBC to BBCA and then to SyFy.  Bradley James and Colin Morgan made a great team as Arthur and Merlin.  I tuned in just for the first episode and stayed for 5 Seasons.

 

I met ASH and the man is absolutely charming and down to earth, so I will always check out his projects if I know about them.

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This wasn't caused by her reluctance to kill in general (like it is with Liv), but by her being in love with him, though. Not a good parallel.

IIRC, Buffy put that aside fairly early on and there really was no explanation for her subsequent delay, other than apparently needing to wait until her friends were attacked to act. I see Lowell on par with Giles' girlfriend and it taking something happening to Major or Ravi for Liv to act (maybe with Peyton or Liv's brother being under threat).

 

Neither Major nor Clive have heard of body armor? Just how old is the story line that the writers are cribbing from? FWIW, I've heard that the shots Major fired might not have been enough to stop a big guy like that IRL and that's why cops are trained to keep firing when under attack, so there's a second explanation for why the "body" disapeared that Clive could have suggested.

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IIRC, Buffy put that aside fairly early on and there really was no explanation for her subsequent delay, other than apparently needing to wait until her friends were attacked to act.

 

No, she hasn't really put it aside (she knew she'd have to fight him and kill him, logically, but wasn't necessarily ready for it). That said, it's been a while since I've rewatched season 2... Hmm.

 

. I see Lowell on par with Giles' girlfriend and it taking something happening to Major or Ravi for Liv to act (maybe with Peyton or Liv's brother being under threat).

 

I don't think it will the a question of willingness with Blaine after Lowell, but a question of possibility. He'll be probably more guarded.

 

Neither Major nor Clive have heard of body armor?

 

Is it that easy to get body armor for a person like Major? It's not like he's in law enforcement. And it's pretty clear he's acting irrationally at this point.

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