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Lisin

Speculation for Lucifer: Purgatory

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A little follow-up since I was thinking about this, particularly given the summary blurb for "Weaponized".

What if the writers are following the "Yahweh wants to retire" trope?  Let's go with that assumption/speculation of motivation on "Dad's" part.  He doesn't want to obliterate his creation but who can he pass it off too?

In many ways, Lucifer has been interacting with humans more than any of Yahweh's sons.  Sure Uriel greets them at the gates but after that, good souls go to exist peacefully, not a lot of angelic interaction.  We see this in Amenadiel's bemusement over all things human.  Lucifer is shown to be learning the nuances of emotion, while Amenadiel is just now learning basic human 101.

Okay so let's pretend we're Yahweh and we want to retire and safely pass humanity over to an heir.  Not just humanity though, but also the Silver City.  How do you go about it?

Sure he could have just called up Lucifer from Hell, held and angelic town hall and said "Okay guys, Luci is taking over I'm outtah here, have fun!" but that would probably lead to angelic civil warfare and humanity getting caught in the middle and everything ending up screwed.  There's Amenadiel but there is no evidence that Amenadiel could control Lucifer and with Luci still throwing an eons old temper tantrum, not the best way to pass off the keys.

So what does he do?

Lucifer has always been the "Favorite Son".  We had an entire episode around that and Dr. Linda's word about rising up.  We also have Father Frank's words about Yahweh still having a plan for Lucifer, that Lucifer is not abandoned like he believes himself to be.   Yahweh has to get Lucifer to believe in himself, the Silver City to believe in Lucifer and also get Lucifer to come to understand why humanity matters.

How better than to allow his son to come and live among humanity, learn about them and grow to see how beautiful this creation is, at the same time, by sending angels like Amenadiel and now Uriel (the top tiers) to interact with Lucifer on this 'neutral' plane (neither the Silver City nor Hell) Yahweh sets up the conditions where by Lucifer can prove himself to his brothers and bring them to his side.

Finally, we've heard throw away sentences that suggest "Mom" had assistance getting free from Hell.  We know it wasn't Maze (at least Maze said it wasn't her) and true it could turn out to be Amenadiel/Uriel/An angel we've yet to meet.  But what if it was Yahweh?  We're still getting to know Mom but the suggestion has been made that she is the 'creator' of all the ills/evils that plague humanity, AKA humanity's greatest threat.  What if Yahweh released her specifically to test Lucifer's intentions towards humanity.

Lucifer has often railed that while he is vilified for all things he's not evil, he was a punisher of evil.  Mom on the other hand, is evil (from humanity's standpoint) so what will Lucifer ultimate do when he has to find a way to handle that evil?

Wow this is a ramble, and all speculation but yeah ... basically that could be an interesting direction for the show to take and I'd trust these writers to actually pull off something like that.  I'm not sure how they could drag it out for 7 seasons (pipe dream I know) but I think they could squeeze 3-4 seasons and maybe more if, once Luci cottons on to what's happening he's like "Oh no you don't, Dad!  Give it to someone else!"

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These are "musings" more than speculation since I'm not sure the show is going this way, but...  

I wonder if Amenadiel's are not because of dad punishing him, but due to his own guilt and insecurities.  

I also wonder if maybe Uriel will return somehow, like I'm wrong about the above and dad is in play and keeps Uriel alive.  But this is probably more wishful thinking than anything else.

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I'm getting concerned.  Chloe/Lauren German keeps looking sick (red swollen eyes) to me.  Is that part of the show and her increasing response to being around Lucifer, or is Lauren the actress sick???  I think it is very noticeable and I would think if it was part of the show it would be commented on.  Is the actress OK?   

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Have we had ANY more I fomatiom on way Chloe is not affected by Lucy charms?

I am starting to think. The more time Lucy spends with a human. The less his influence works on them.  They build up a tolerance to him. But that does not explain Chloe. 

Edited by gwhh

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Have we had ANY more I fomatiom on way Chloe is not affected by Lucy charms?

I would prefer if there was no supernatural explanation. Instead, she just has some natural immunity like that person in your office who never gets the flu. She's not affected simply because she's not interested and only wants to be partners. Of course, we're moving in the direction of their getting together (hugs and jealousy) so we can soon toss my preference over the side.

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Oh, I'm SURE there's a supernatural explanation. It just reeks of an arc going throughout the whole show.

My completely off the wall theory: you know how "Charlotte" aka Mom is the "Goddess of Creation"? Well, Chloe is a "Goddess of Destruction", her counterpart sealed in a human vessel (maybe like Ben and Glory, or a bit different). I've always noticed how similar Lauren German and Tricia Helfer look like and I guess this casting may have been intentional. And, of course, Chloe's status will make her something akin to this trope.

I'm probably wrong.

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I have similar speculative thoughts to storyskip, in that I suspect Luci's immediate facination with Chloe brought her to Dad's attention, and that subsequent vulnerability on Luci's part is part of A Plan. Father Frank told Luci as much on his deathbed (the plan part, not the Chloe part).  But, that doesn't explain her initial immunity.  For that, my guess is some kind of early special blessing from Dad, perhaps when she was suffering after her father died.  She doesn't believe now, but we don't know whether that is life-long belief.  Or, maybe it was her own father interceding on her behalf from the Silver City/Heaven.  That would be a fairly easy solution, instead of making her a descendant of divinity. 

The whole make-up think bugs me.  If it's not a clue, I would fire the makeup department.  A google search for LG images shows that she has an eye-circle darkness, but it's not incapable of masking.  And if it's just to "ugly" her up, it's not necessary because the actress has demonstrated herself more than capable of being a "regular" person-- a loving mother, a good friend, goofy without being ridiculous, etc.  Any shortcomings for her as a cop are about the writing/plots (not bad writing, just a recognition that the procedural aspect isn't that critical to the overall story). 

I like the idea that Sonoma posed above-- that the number of times Chloe has been close to death may mean she's fading in some fashion.  Maybe that's how Azrael gets into the mix.  Really enjoying Season 2.

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On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 4:21 PM, FurryFury said:

Oh, I'm SURE there's a supernatural explanation. It just reeks of an arc going throughout the whole show.

My completely off the wall theory: you know how "Charlotte" aka Mom is the "Goddess of Creation"? Well, Chloe is a "Goddess of Destruction", her counterpart sealed in a human vessel (maybe like Ben and Glory, or a bit different). I've always noticed how similar Lauren German and Tricia Helfer look like and I guess this casting may have been intentional. And, of course, Chloe's status will make her something akin to this trope.

I'm probably wrong.

It's funny because I feel like Mom/Charlotte is the goddess of destruction. She seems to have no positive feelings about humans or earth. She's been quite blase about all of the death and suffering she's wrought in her efforts to get back to the silver city.

I too wish that Trixie is the one immune to Lucifer's gifts. I suspect that she might be and that like Connor on Angel or Nick on Grimm, that Trixie has either never seen Lucifer's false face or she can simultaneously see both faces.

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On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 1:02 PM, Loandbehold said:

I would prefer if there was no supernatural explanation. Instead, she just has some natural immunity like that person in your office who never gets the flu. She's not affected simply because she's not interested and only wants to be partners. Of course, we're moving in the direction of their getting together (hugs and jealousy) so we can soon toss my preference over the side.

I was hoping her immunity was something more.  Maybe she accidental drink a jug of holy water as a kid.

Now that we know her both was blessed by an archangel who did it on Fathers order.  Something Father has NEVER had him do before.

So what does getting a direct blessing for your birth from Father carried out by your Archangle son.  Get you??  Any super powers?

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I am hoping this has more to do with who her parents are than with making a girl for Luci. Dad doesn't go around blessing just anyone with a child. Why these two? Clearly it's not the mom, she's pretty cookie cutter, just like her daughter, so maybe her dad was special in some way,

If it really does come down to Dad making her for Luci I will stop watching because that will undo all the good this show has done as far as averting tropes, and I do not subscribe to that level of "master planning". But time will tell. I still have enough confidence in these writers that it is not going to be what we think it is.

Hey, maybe Chloe was "created" to take Mom down! After all, if Dad knew Luci and Chloe would randomly meet someday he had to know Mom would escape at some point. Maybe her immunity is more just because she has been touched by an angel and less because it's Luci specifically. She could be immune to them all. He's the only one who's really tried anything. Oooh, maybe she is Dad's next great toy, a kind of human/angel hybrid sent to wipe out the angels who Dad has grown bored with. Things would get really interesting if Chloe's "destiny" is to destroy Lucifer, Amendude, her new BFF Maze.

Sorry, long day, mind is running away with me.

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23 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I am hoping this has more to do with who her parents are than with making a girl for Luci. Dad doesn't go around blessing just anyone with a child. Why these two? Clearly it's not the mom, she's pretty cookie cutter, just like her daughter, so maybe her dad was special in some way,

If it really does come down to Dad making her for Luci I will stop watching because that will undo all the good this show has done as far as averting tropes, and I do not subscribe to that level of "master planning". But time will tell. I still have enough confidence in these writers that it is not going to be what we think it is.

Hey, maybe Chloe was "created" to take Mom down! After all, if Dad knew Luci and Chloe would randomly meet someday he had to know Mom would escape at some point. Maybe her immunity is more just because she has been touched by an angel and less because it's Luci specifically. She could be immune to them all. He's the only one who's really tried anything. Oooh, maybe she is Dad's next great toy, a kind of human/angel hybrid sent to wipe out the angels who Dad has grown bored with. Things would get really interesting if Chloe's "destiny" is to destroy Lucifer, Amendude, her new BFF Maze.

Sorry, long day, mind is running away with me.

I agree, I hope Chloe is not a 'magical girl' just for Lucifer and I want to have faith that the writers won't go that cookie cutter.  They've lived up to that faith so far so ...

What if it's the other way around?  Comic spoiler time!

Spoiler

If the writers are pulling inspiration (I won't call it direct reference anymore, I know they're on their own path) from the Elaine character for Chloe, then perhaps this is a case of Lucifer being set in the path of Chloe to teach her something about herself on the road to becoming embroiled in the future of humanity.   The way Uncle Lucifer had to help teach Elaine how to utilize the creation powers she inherited from her father Michael and how to become the new seat of Creation when Yahweh retired.

I'm not suggesting the writers will go down that exact path, I think that would be just way too much supernatural stuff for the tenor of this show.  Though I have to admit, it could be amusing to see her have to balance detective work, motherhood, and all of creation!

That all said, I think the writers could get a lot of character development work out of the twist that Chloe is part of Dad's Plan for Lucifer.  It will be less about "Chloe is a magic girl for Lucifer" and more about Lucifer's struggle to reconcile his own emotional connections, and that pesky problem of "playing a role in Dad's play."  

He is NOT going to like this manipulation one bit, the question is does he take that emotion out on Chloe and the humans he's come to admire and care about or ... what does he do with his anger?  What has he learned about himself, as an individual and not just a construct of his father's design.

And nothing to say it has to be all of one or the other!  There could be a little bit of both.  After all, Dad tends to think on a cosmic scale. ;)

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That all said, I think the writers could get a lot of character development work out of the twist that Chloe is part of Dad's Plan for Lucifer.  It will be less about "Chloe is a magic girl for Lucifer" and more about Lucifer's struggle to reconcile his own emotional connections, and that pesky problem of "playing a role in Dad's play."  

I agree. I also think Lucifer's self-touted honor will be jeopardized by his emotional connection to Chloe before the end of the season. That line from Charlotte about how "the one thing Lucifer values above [pointed look at Chloe] everything is his honor" just screams foreshadowing. I think Dad is using Chloe to take Lucifer down a peg or two, teach him lessons about humanity and humility and, more sinisterly, eviscerate the one thing holding Lucifer's fragile self-esteem together: his sense of integrity. All so he can bring him back into the fold. The question will be, how does Lucifer square his strong desire for a deep, human connection with Chloe (not just romantic, mind you) with his much vaunted free will? And what role does Chloe herself play in all of it? Because I do credit with these writers with a plan that involves her being more than just a "magical girl" who exists solely to serve Lucifer's story, and that's saying a lot, because I usually assume the worst in these situations. Don't disappoint me, writers.

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Well, according to the Book of Revelations, the Antichrist has to happen, right? So maybe God is getting antsy to push that along. Therefore He needs Lucifer to knock up a human female. Or maybe he's just lonely for grandkids. And speaking of Holy Terrors, I'd love to know what Luci's Mom thinks about her ex getting some teenage girl pregnant 2000 years ago, and what her kids think of their half-sibling.  

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I have a few questions.  Do we know for sure that Chloe is the reason for Lucifer's vulnerability?  He was worried about being shot even when she was no where around.  (with the religious artifacts guy when he was trying to get his wings back)  Speaking of wings, do we think he destroyed his real wings or is it possible he destroyed the fake ones instead?

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3 hours ago, Wicked said:

I have a few questions.  Do we know for sure that Chloe is the reason for Lucifer's vulnerability?  He was worried about being shot even when she was no where around.  (with the religious artifacts guy when he was trying to get his wings back)  Speaking of wings, do we think he destroyed his real wings or is it possible he destroyed the fake ones instead?

We do know that it's Chloe. In the episode you mentioned he had not been aware of it yet, I think it was only in the episode before or a couple of episodes prior to that, that he found out that he could be wounded and he assumed it was in general. Then, when he was shot a few episodes later and didn't die, he started to "investigate" - it was the episode in which Maze returned and Lucifer was cutting his hand with the knife and he didn't get hurt and then he went to see Chloe and cut himself and he was hurt.

In the episode after that, they open with Maze throwing knives at Lucifer and Lucifer's unhurt and then he stabs his toe on a step and is hurt and a second later the elevator doors open and Chloe steps out.

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In the promo we were originally shown for "Stewardess Interruptus" we saw Chloe experiencing unstoppable bleeding but that wasn't part of tonight's episode.  It's not much of a stretch to assume that her bleeding is somehow related to whatever is in those vials that were in the package.  Was anyone able to read what was on the vials?

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Was that Ammandiel at the End of the last Episode ,you didnt see the Face but he Build and the Bodylanguage looked for me the same as him.

If its him ,it looks for me in the same way Lucifer chances to the Lighter Side (to use a Star wars Metapher) Amanediel goes to the Darker Side to balance the scale.

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Disclaimer: I'm a terrible show predictor.  I come up with theories and they're almost always wrong.  That said, I have a new one. 

I think Ella is Dad.  This isn't based on anything we've seen in the show but on two flimsy things that probably won't matter.  The first is that I like imagining Luci and everyone (but him in particular) reacting to cute and perky Ella turning out to be DAD.  All powerful, all mighty, creator of everything DAD.  The second is that angel names end with "el".  So, if the names of the children end with "el", then maybe their creator decided to pick a name that starts with "el".  It doesn't have to be what Dad goes by when the mask comes off, but just a hint to the children when on Earth.  Maybe that's just Dad's sense of humor. 

That, or Ella will turn out to be exactly who she's been presented as which I'm also completely on board with as I love her.

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I'm guessing Tim Dekay's character is suppose to be the guy at the end of the last episode or hired that guy. Not based on anything I've read except the bit about Tim coming on next episode  in the Media thread.

Edited by Gigi43

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Does anyone else think the new Lieutenant is The Sinnerman? 

Edited by GaT

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27 minutes ago, GaT said:

Does anyone else think the new Lieutenant is The Sinnerman?

I'm sure some people do, though I'm not one of them.  I think it's more likely to turn out that he was one of the ones who got a favor from the Sinnerman back in Chicago and it went wrong for him, which caused the death of the person close to him (whether due to the favor itself or from his refusal to repay it when the Sinnerman demanded the favor's return).  It's probably one reason he clearly dislikes Dan so much.  Dan managed to get away with his brush with darkness with little apparent cost while Marcus lost someone about whom he cared very deeply.

I think Marcus genuinely wants to bring the Sinnerman to justice (probably the fatal kind) and will happily deal with the Devil to get it done.  I think he sees his warning to Lucifer as him having done his due diligence on that front and now plans to use Lucifer as a kind of "stalking horse" to draw the Sinnerman out so Marcus can nail him.  Of course with a plan like that, the devil is in the details.  Especially when the literal Devil is involved.

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