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The Magicians In The Media

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15 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

DO NOT PUT THAT EVIL OUT INTO THE UNIVERSE!!! 

Its so sad, there was a time when I would have been ecstatic to see this trailer and get a premier date for one of my favorite shows, but now...it just makes me sad knowing that a show I once loved has fallen victim, like so many TV/movies lately, to "angst angst angst omg we is so dark and edgy we can give you a haircut" syndrome. Not even having Elliot back at last makes me interested in seeing this. 

I'm still excited to see it come back. After the end of last season, I wasn't sure, but I think I'm willing to see where the show can go. Frankly, last season, without the "real" Eliot, was a bit of a tough slog at times, but I feel as though if Q were simply missing in action, rather than having been killed off the way he was, I wouldn't actually miss him all that much; the rest of the cast would still make it work. I think I was angrier at the loss of Quentin for Eliot's sake, rather than just losing Quentin, if that makes sense. So if everyone can unite around the loss and make it meaningful, it might still work. The trailer seems pretty interesting, so I'm going with "cautiously optimistic". Now that Eliot is back, I find I'm still looking forward to it.

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I'm excited. I was upset at the end of last season but I never said I wasn't going to continue to watch. Good to have Eliot back and I'm interested to see where they'll go with Julia. In my mind she should be the one grieving Quentin the most. Childhood friends that didn't have the greatest last few years together. I do want to see how his loss changes the three people that loved him. I also hope Fen gets a good story this season. 

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I am cautiously optimistic after the trailer. I think there has been enough time since the end of Season 4 that the shock of Q's death has numbed a bit. 

I'm still over Alice though. They better do something really good with her or just get rid of her, because she pisses me off. I'd much rather have more Kady and Julia than Alice at this point. 

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After the S4 finale, I was adamant that I would not be returning for S5. So it was really sad to me over the past few weeks to see the promos for S5 and to still just feel my heart turned into a stone in my chest. I feel zero desire to continue watching the show still. I still feel just as angry and just as betrayed by the S4 finale.

Speaking of which, some additional press that I haven't seen linked here yet, that beautifully discuss what was so upsetting about the S4 finale:

'The Magicians' Season 4 Finale is a Master Class in How Not to Treat Queer Characters 
https://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/the-magicians-season-4-finale-is-a-masters-class-in-how-not-to-treat-queer-characters.php 
For me, this one put things absolutely perfectly. It was one of several critical, unhappy articles originally posted on SyFy.com and which the website then pulled after publication.

The Season 4 Finale Changes the Show Forever
(Archived) https://web.archive.org/web/20190418180429/https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-magicians-discussion-the-season-4-finale-changes-the-show-forever 
This is the critical and eloquent piece that was originally posted on SyFy, which then removed it within a week.

'Magicians' Fans are Really Upset About What Happened to Quentin 
https://www.pride.com/tv/2019/4/19/magicians-fans-are-really-upset-about-what-happened-quentin

Why Quentin's Death on 'The Magicians' was Wrong 
https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Why-Quentin-Death-Magicians-Wrong-46050057

SyFy's Response to 'The Magicians' Finale is Strange 
https://phenixxgaming.com/2019/05/01/syfys-response-to-the-magicians-finale-is-strange/
This one has a good take in asking what was going on with SyFy's handling of the episode (and subsequent critiques, some of which were on its own website)

Magicians Season 4 Finale Infuriates Fanbase
 https://phenixxgaming.com/2019/04/22/the-magicians-season-4-finale-infuriates-fanbase/

I feel bad for the remaining cast, who I will always love, as they try to put a good face on the promos and S5 interviews, but I'm still too angry at the S4 finale and (almost worse) the producers' behavior and justifications afterward. Gamble and McNamara have been shockingly thoughtless and arrogant without even a pretense of apology to those who felt betrayed for Quentin's suicidal confession or for its "bury your gays" choices yet again.

I was open to reevaluating my feelings (and curious if I would, because this used to be my favorite show, in that way of "I love this show unabashedly, the brilliant episodes and the bad ones..."). But S5 has started and yeah, I'm not watching. 

On 7/24/2019 at 10:34 AM, tennisgurl said:

Am I just still super sensitive about this still, or are the fans who are still pissed about Quentin's death being made fun of here? "How dare you still be missing your white guy, your a sexist racist, your just like this pig guy for giving a crap, rejoice in our wokeness! Our woke pro suicide gay burying selves!" 

Its probably just me still being salty, right? Either way, it was pretty ham handed 😉 

That's exactly how I saw that promo as well. (LOL on "ham handed!") And I'm still super-sensitive too, so the lightness of the S5 promos is just sitting wrong with me.

On 7/24/2019 at 7:21 PM, kieyra said:

I only still check this thread in case they reveal Quentin’s coming back.

I know they aren’t going to. Can’t help hoping.

Meanwhile, I’ve stuck by my guns—no more Netflix rewatches. No recommendations. It wasn’t just “oh, they killed off my favorite character/ship”, it’s that they did it in a harmful and hurtful way, with an audience they must know is vulnerable. 

@kieyra, you are my patronus on this. I feel exactly the same way.

And I'm still furious that they sent poor Hale Appleman out on that big, self-congratulatory, "the lead of our series is a bisexual man in love with Hale's character!" Which got a TON of press, and which leaves a really bad taste in my mouth now, knowing that they already knew they were going to reconnect Q with his safely het (if toxic) romance with Alice... and then kill him without a single exchange of words with Eliot. While implying it was a final successful suicide attempt by Quentin. AGHGHGH.

(Oops. Yeah. Still enraged.)

On 9/23/2019 at 7:59 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I don't like being manipulated.  I don't like these show runners.  This pushed me more on the not going to watch side of the fence.

I have following John McNamara's shows a long time, and used to respect his willingness to be creative and offbeat. But I lost a lot of respect for him and for Sera after the S4 finale, and how they handled the entire thing (both storywise, with Jason Ralph, with Hale Appleman, and with us, the viewers). I still can't believe they didn't allow Jason to tell castmates. Shit, even Jon Snow got a going-away cake.

On 11/15/2019 at 8:31 AM, beeemkcl said:

This is an excellent series, but even Buffy the Vampire Slayer could 'go on' without Buffy Anne Summers.

Quentin Coldwater was largely important because of his apparently unique (the true meaning of "one and only") connection to Fillory. Of secondary importance is that he connected Eliot Waugh and Margo Hanson and Alice Quinn and Julia Wicker.

I don't agree with any of this. "Buffy" as a show never had to go on without her, nor do I think it would have been able to do so.

To me, Quentin was important, to put it bluntly, because he was the main character (books and show). He was the one whose journey had to take him from innocence and privilege to humility, and he was the lynchpin of the group as the one true believer in Fillory. It was never about Q being the 'best magician' (which was always Alice).

I don't understand the rest of your post, since I don't think either Alice, Julia, or Quentin are remotely evil. They're simply young characters who have sometimes made bad decisions in impossible supernatural situations.

On 11/20/2019 at 12:02 PM, kieyra said:

This is a strange way of framing it, since BTVS was never really put in that situation. (Buffy didn't stay dead, of course.)

Most people's objections (that I have seen) are not about whether one can OMGWTF kill off a main character and get away with it, nor are they about Quentin's relative value or evilness compared to other characters. It was the setup and context ... the pointless death, the way it smacked of suicide, and the casual cruelty of not even letting Quentin and Eliot speak one last time.

There are right ways to do this kind of thing ... and then there are ways that make people swear off your show and stop telling other people how great it is. 

This.

On 12/2/2019 at 2:15 PM, tennisgurl said:

Its so sad, there was a time when I would have been ecstatic to see this trailer and get a premier date for one of my favorite shows, but now...it just makes me sad knowing that a show I once loved has fallen victim, like so many TV/movies lately, to "angst angst angst omg we is so dark and edgy we can give you a haircut" syndrome. Not even having Elliot back at last makes me interested in seeing this. 

Me too. I actually cringed at that pig-man trailer thing. Just... wow. 

On 12/3/2019 at 6:18 AM, festivus said:

I'm excited. I was upset at the end of last season but I never said I wasn't going to continue to watch. Good to have Eliot back and I'm interested to see where they'll go with Julia. In my mind she should be the one grieving Quentin the most. Childhood friends that didn't have the greatest last few years together. I do want to see how his loss changes the three people that loved him. I also hope Fen gets a good story this season. 

It's interesting because one of the other things I was most furious about after the season finale (after the slap in the face to people with depression, or to the LGBT community) was that we didn't get a Quentin/Julia moment either. Just Alice, Alice, Alice. 

Anyway... I'll be checking in with the forum occasionally to see what you guys think of the season -- especially if any of you ever feel it redeems the show. If it does, I'll give it a chance. But right now, I have no plans to return.

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On 1/10/2020 at 1:14 PM, paramitch said:

(Oops. Yeah. Still enraged.)

Totally agree with your entire post.  I have not yet decided whether I will watch or not.  I have limited time these days, so this show is clearly at the bottom of my watch list.  If I do watch, it'll be sometime after anyone gets 'credit' for it.  

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Yeah guys, I just dont know. I think that I thought I had more or less moved into the acceptance phase of my grief/rage and that I could still keep watching for the sake of the characters that I still love, and maybe some perverse curiosity as to where the show could go from here, but watching the trailers for the new season and re-reading some of the interviews with the show runners again (because I hate myself apparently) just makes me dread the idea of watching those two smug assholes continue to run a show. I forgot how much they made light of everything that happened with Quentin, and how they thought that writing a show post-Q was "strangely fun" and their insanely smug and condescending "sometimes we dont get closure when people die, its unrealistic for people to get to talk to people they love before they die" answers on why they never let Quentin and Elliot get one single freaking conversation in before he died. Because I guess this show is a documentary now and not a fucking fantasy story with talking bears and dick mountains and shit. Thats not even getting into them endlessly soaking up the praise they got for seeming to make Q/E cannon, all the while knowing that it would never really happen and using fans as a cheap marketing ploy, but I digress. 

Maybe it all still hurts because when I watched The Seam, I was personally in a bad mental health place, so I took the whole "if your depressed and suicidal, killing yourself is actually awesome and the best thing you can do for your loved ones" message rather personally. Maybe its because I thought that, for once, my ship would actually get to sail into the sunset, before it was violently torpedoed by the same writers who championed it in the first place. Maybe because this will now forever be associated with a long string of shows that I loved all suddenly killing off major characters in needlessly cruel and pointless ways to show how "edgy" and "unpredictable" their show was, all right in a row. I will probably end up watching, or at least checking in here to see what is going on, but...I just dont know. 

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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I forgot how much they made light of everything that happened with Quentin, and how they thought that writing a show post-Q was "strangely fun" and their insanely smug and condescending "sometimes we dont get closure when people die, its unrealistic for people to get to talk to people they love before they die" answers on why they never let Quentin and Elliot get one single freaking conversation in before he died.

Yeah, that was bullshit.  I might accept it if they played all the emotional beats from something like that.  But it was the last episode and we saw hardly any reactions other than the Take On Me scene.  Even dealing with it in this season would feel tacked on due to the time passed for the audience.  Not to mention, if that was really what they were going for, WTAF did they intend with the Qualice heel-turn?  

I'm gonna watch.  I'll watch because I still love the characters, even if I'm pissed at the writing.* But I'm going in with a lot of residual upset and far less trust than any prior season.

 

*In addition to the Queliot issues, I'm still pissed off that they nullified Julia's agency by de-goddessing her while she was unconscious and then killed her best friend

Edited by RachelKM
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So I guess I have under two hours to get off the fence at this point.

All the trailers have me about split down the middle on whether I want to watch or not.

Even putting aside Quentin's death, season 4 was a slog to get through.  Quentin's death made me think that it was going to be nearly impossible to get back to the quality of season 2/3.  But there are enough glimpses of moments that seem like they are tonally similar to the better seasons that want me to at least give the first episode a shot to see what its like.

But, some of the trailers are making me really irritated.  Some of the dumb behind the scenes stuff is giving me flashbacks to the cast doing tonally f'd up promos for this season after The Seam because the weren't given the courtesy of being told that Quentin had really been killed off.  And there are way to many themes in those trailers that are lifted out of Gamble's post finale press tour and social media BS.

The thing keeping me on the fence are the show runners.  Their interviews after the end of last seasons make me want to "punish" them by not watching.  And knowing they were going to kill Quentin at the end of the season frankly made a bad season almost criminal.

I don't know.  I guess I'll probably watch.  Mainly because of the forums.

But I'm seriously thinking about setting up a series of baby yoda memes on my laptop to cute my way out of losing my shit.  

 

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On 1/13/2020 at 8:49 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

FEN! Live from Fillory: Girl Power

 

I love how Julia just sits there straight faced through the whole thing.  Also, unicorns!

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