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The Crazed Spruce

S01.E05: World On Fire

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I <3 Foggy 4 evah!! Eldon Henson is great as Foggy and this episode sealed it for me. Not that it was a big question, but Mr. Henson has brought a warmth and humor and a strength of conviction that elevates the thankless role of Unknowing Best Friend and Business Partner into a character with whom I'd like to spend my time.

 

I also enjoyed seeing Foggy get a bit of a spotlight as Matt was going around doing his thing. I am looking forward to Foggy decimating Marcie in court. At least, I hope he is allowed. (Damn criminals! ::shakes fist::) 

 

Madame Gao? Want to know more about her. She has Fisk's respect, as far as we can tell, as well as Wesley's. I'm not sure I want to know how they met, but it could be an interesting story there. 

 

I enjoyed the callback to the electrician from last episode.

 

I also loved the 360 cab views we got. That was neat!

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I never would've thought that Foggy and Karen would've made such a great couple. (I'm also impressed that the show decided to stray so far from the source material when they realized how much chemistry the two actors had.)

And hey, radar sense! :)

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I never would've thought that Foggy and Karen would've made such a great couple. (I'm also impressed that the show decided to stray so far from the source material when they realized how much chemistry the two actors had.)

 

What drives Matt?  Guilt, which is why bad stuff has to happen to his love interests.  So if they want to keep Karen a viable character, having her not be a romantic interest and avoiding all the other terrible stuff she went through is the way to do it.  Also, the Foggy/Karen and Matt/Claire is what plays well between the actors, so they can't ignore that.

 

Also, if the show keeps going, they more or less have to bring in Elektra eventually.  That's not a spoiler, because I have no idea if they do or will.

 

I saw something that Elden Henson said while he was doing press for the show, about how he was glad Foggy, while clearly the light-hearted one, didn't exist just to be the comic relief, and I think this episode has shown that the best so far.  I'm already more emotionally invested in Karen, Claire, Matt, and Foggy after five episodes than with the SHIELD agents after a season and a half.

 

And hey, radar sense! :)

I wish they'd resisted the urge to do that.  I mean, it was quick, which was good, but I think continuously going into Radar Sense Vision would be really cheesy, really quickly.  I do like the notion that it almost seems more mystical or spiritual than an actual superpower.

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Well this was a hell of an episode to have to go to bed after! I really wanted to watch the next one last night but I was just too tired. Back at it now though. This is so freaking amazing. I can't believe it's real.

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Yay, radar sense!  I liked the design of it.

 

Really good episode.  Color me impressed that they actually seem to be pushing Foggy and Karen as a couple instead of Matt and Karen.  The chemistry between the two is really there, as is the chemistry between Matt and Claire.  The only issues I have is that Foggy and Karen haven't interacted as much with Matt.

 

Looks like Vanessa might be just the woman Fisk is looking for.  Great last couple of minutes.

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I am glad that the show is going with Foggy and Karen.  They have great chemistry I am also enjoying the chemistry between Matt and Clair and Fisk and Vanessa.  

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Obviously, this show is young, so who knows where they are planning to go with couples and whatnot.  But, for now, I wouldn't be against Foggy/Karen.  I really think Elden Hendson and Deborah Ann Woll are just so much fun together, and I like how the characters are willing to make fun of one another, but still show each other affection.  On the other side of the coin, I think Charlie Cox and Rosario Dawson have the heated chemistry going for them, so I'm all for Matt/Claire right now.  That said, I think the Matt/Foggy/Karen trio in general is pretty great, and want more of that.  And, I hope they find some way to even get Claire playing off of Foggy/Karen. Overall, the casting for this show has been amazing.

 

And, then there is Fisk/Vanessa.  Bad guy be damned, I don't care: I am totally pulling for them.  It is so simple, but I love the idea of the big baddie of this show/season, is trying to start a relationship, but instead of going the normal "Love interest doesn't like him back. so it just makes him worse!", she totally digs him back, and is even willing to let his violent stuff slide.  Both of them are so off, that it makes them perfect for one another.  You can do it, guys!

 

Finally figured out that the henchman is Wesley.  He really is the best henchman ever.  Dude gets shit done!  And, apparently knows his wine!

 

The fight around the cab was great.  This show keeps impressing me with the action scenes.

 

Not sure what my favorite nickname is for now on: Foggy-bear (or maybe it should be Senior Foggy-bear) or "Sexual Rainman." It is true, though.  Cracked up when Matt casually tossed that "I like listening to your voice" bit to Karen, and Foggy was like "Dude, come on!  This is not fair!"

 

I kind of want to see a prequel of Matt and Foggy: The College Years.

 

Off to watch the next one.  Really have to see how that particular cliffhanger gets resolved. 

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I kind of want to see a prequel of Matt and Foggy: The College Years.

 

I remember Mark Waid I believe doing an issue about Matt and Foggy in college.  It was quite good and hopefully one of the future flashbacks will show that.  Both actors are still young enough to pull that off.

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Finally figured out that the henchman is Wesley.  He really is the best henchman ever.

 

 

Its hard to find a good henchman these days.  When it is done right...Henchies are often my favorite characters.  I love Wesley.  

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Something that was talked about early in Daredevil was that

Foggy and Karen were almost a couple and Foggy wanted to marry her at one point. It was barely explored past the Stan Lee and John Romita Sr. run of the book in the 60s. Jeph Lobe who wrote Daredevil: Yellow actually focused on it and it makes sense they focus on it more since he is one of the main show runners. I always thought it was an interesting aspect of the three in a non-love triangle way. Since Matt and Karen didn't get together until years later. I also hope we see the adaptation of Mark Waid's story of Matt and Foggy in college because not only is it a great story. It also shows where Foggy started questioning the morals of people. Something I loved in Rabbit in a Snowstorm is how Foggy after talking with the hitman. He realized he was walking into something bad. Since the original story dealt with a college professor who was setting Foggy up to fail, it really showed how the two had each other's backs since day 1 even after questions of what they did over the years. Not to mention how Matt learned to look deeper into investigating cases especially since the professor does get away with things due to his connections to the college board but takes an early retirement and also sets up Mr. Fear who would become my favorite Daredevil villain.

Edited by The Crazed Spruce · Reason: Spoiler-tagging info from the comics
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I'm glad that they've gone with Foggy and Karen, although I can't tell if he's second choice or not, and that it's Matt she's interested in.

 

Like I mentioned in the pilot thread, the only knowledge I have of DareDevil, is when he showed up as Matt Murdock/DareDevil in the 90s Spiderman toon, where he was defending Peter Parker. I'm so loving this show,  but admit, that every time I see Fisk, my mind does run to that 90s toon, where he was a regular, and the actor that voiced him, gave him more of a debonair personality? Then again, it was a cartoon, aimed at kids. I'm a fan of D'Onofrio and his Fisk is downright fucking scary.

 

And I was cheering when Foggy gave the smackdown to Marci.

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Can we put the comic spoilers somewhere else? 

 

For what it's worth, I thought that this episode showed that Karen really has a thing for Matt. I felt really bad for Foggy. The whole thing about "I want to know how I look to a blind person" was so obviously about her wanting Matt to like her. I think there is plenty of time for relationships to go any which direction, but that was my take on Foggy and Karen's "date."

 

I'm really liking this show thus far.

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I pretty much got that Karen's interested in Matt. She was asking all sorts of questions about his dating life and what kind of women he likes. She basically wanted Foggy to pretend to be Matt. 

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I pretty much got that Karen's interested in Matt. She was asking all sorts of questions about his dating life and what kind of women he likes. She basically wanted Foggy to pretend to be Matt. 

 

 

Yup. That's what I got out of those scenes as well.

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Sorry, don't give a damn about Claire/Matt. I don't argue they have no chemistry - they do - but before starting a romance, I'd really prefer if they've defined Claire better. I have a much better feel for Karen because she actually has her own storyline and generally more screentime and seems more proactive. I do know Claire/Matt is just a temporary relationship, so it helps, but overall, they've kinda went too fast with it to really work.

 

Wouldn't mind Foggy/Karen on the other hand, although I like them as friends just as well. It's a pity Matt's on his own all the time, I really like it when the trio interacts, there's not nearly enough of it. I don't like it when the hero conceals his identity from everyone.

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Sorry, don't give a damn about Claire/Matt. I don't argue they have no chemistry - they do - but before starting a romance, I'd really prefer if they've defined Claire better. I have a much better feel for Karen because she actually has her own storyline and generally more screentime and seems more proactive. I do know Claire/Matt is just a temporary relationship, so it helps, but overall, they've kinda went too fast with it to really work.

It wasn't meant to "work" longterm - at least I don't think it is. Even Dawson said in an interview that she wasn't "a love interest".

It's probably like in that movie Speed - when you get thrown into a situation like that - patching up a vigilante, danger, etc.. it can tend to really bond you as a couple. Finding a dude in a trashcan almost sounds like the beginning of a romance novel, lol. Maybe a bad one - but the show doesn't seem to be going there... If Claire was meant to be endgame, I'm sure the characterization would be far more fleshed out.

Plus - the two have scorching chemistry - so I can understand the show wanting to push that.

It wasn't billed as a huge sweeping love story - just as a brief romance for the woman who has patched him up at least 3-4 times. And their conversations were very deep and open... I didn't see that as problematic at all. I just enjoyed them... brief as they were.

And I swooned.

I do think Karen was more fleshed out (she is the lead actress - or top billed actress on the show - imagine that - it's too bad another super hero show can't be that kind to its top-billed/leading actress - I'm looking at you Flash).

Also - what I love about this show is that it's writing things in a way that hopefully doesn't lead to huge shipping/fandom wars - there's no reason to hate on Claire or Karen. Geez.

 

Wouldn't mind Foggy/Karen on the other hand, although I like them as friends just as well. It's a pity Matt's on his own all the time, I really like it when the trio interacts, there's not nearly enough of it. I don't like it when the hero conceals his identity from everyone.

For this hero and this show, it's pretty obvious why Matt has to keep his exploits as DD secret. In episode 4, Claire got dragged for it. So on this show it's totally necessary. It probably should be for other shows too - but their villains just aren't ruthless enough. I'm thinking the bowling ball guy made that pretty clear - everyone - not just DD - is afraid of retaliation. It's literally a running theme on this show that if you mess with the bad guys, they will hunt down everyone who is important to you and kill them. I can count off the top of my head 6 characters who got that threat. Six.

Thus, "Team DareDevil" REALLY wouldn't work here. That super hero model is grating on my last nerve too. It infantilizes the hero and makes him weak.

Finally a super hero who does things on his own and figures it out on his own without needed a backup team to pull his @ss out of the fire constantly. One friend knowing? Perfect. Errbody in town? No... just ... no!

What's funny is that this is how most super hero shows worked before - the hero spent a lot of time alone honing his own craft and it MEANT something when others were let in on the secret... Matt/DD spent a lot of time with Claire - because it is physically necessary that she knows his secret (to patch him up).

On another note, I felt bad for Foggy when Karen tried to make him "be like Matt" for her... that was ... kinda gross... she did use him. It felt unnecessary - I don't know why they did that other than to make it obvious she was crushing on Matt...

Edited by phoenics
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It just feels stupid when the two supporting characters are all on their own and the hero is on his own, and they rarely intersect. I prefer team-based shows and here, it seems like that it's inevitable that Foggy and Karen will learn Matt's secret, but much of the stuff before it happens feels like a filler and makes me clench my teeth in anger and annoyance. I don't really care about Fisk much, and he has too much screentime, and I don't see Matt/Claire as interesting compared to his potential dynamic with Foggy and Karen.

Edited by FurryFury

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It just feels stupid when the two supporting characters are all on their own and the hero is on his own, and they rarely intersect. I prefer team-based shows and here, it seems like that it's inevitable that Foggy and Karen will learn Matt's secret, but much of the stuff before it happens feels like a filler and makes me clench my teeth in anger and annoyance. I don't really care about Fisk much, and he has too much screentime, and I don't see Matt/Claire as interesting compared to his potential dynamic with Foggy and Karen.

Just keep watching, :)

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I pretty much got that Karen's interested in Matt. She was asking all sorts of questions about his dating life and what kind of women he likes. She basically wanted Foggy to pretend to be Matt. 

 

And it seemed clear that Foggy totally got that as well, which sucked. That also must be an ongoing (and resent-making) dynamic in his relationship with Matt. I'm not entirely clear on why, but for some reason, at this point I am super-resistant to some kind of romantic relationship between Matt and Karen.

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And it seemed clear that Foggy totally got that as well, which sucked. That also must be an ongoing (and resent-making) dynamic in his relationship with Matt. I'm not entirely clear on why, but for some reason, at this point I am super-resistant to some kind of romantic relationship between Matt and Karen.

This show is based on the Frank Miller version right? That might not bode well for Karen anyway. I still think they'll end up together at some point - but eh. I know there was also a Foggy/Karen/Matt triangle at one point - with Matt holding back on his feelings for Foggy's sake, but I can't tell if that's gonna happen here.

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I love Foggy. I smiled when Karen agreed that it was a date, and sort of let out a "squee" - I don't do that often. Then for her to ask about Matt, wanting to know how Matt sees her... damn. 

 

Killing criminals to impress a date. I like how both the good guy and the bad guy seem to have similar motivations, at least on the surface. Both lost their dads young, both want to clean up "their" city. I didn't like that Claire was suddenly talking about falling in love with Matt, like it was a bad thing, after she'd told him before that he was helping people, and doing a good thing. 

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I love Foggy. I smiled when Karen agreed that it was a date, and sort of let out a "squee" - I don't do that often. Then for her to ask about Matt, wanting to know how Matt sees her... damn.

I had the same reaction.

Killing criminals to impress a date. I like how both the good guy and the bad guy seem to have similar motivations, at least on the surface. Both lost their dads young, both want to clean up "their" city. I didn't like that Claire was suddenly talking about falling in love with Matt, like it was a bad thing, after she'd told him before that he was helping people, and doing a good thing.

On the night when that dude came to find DD in Claire's building and he hung him off the roof, Claire said that DD had said that he enjoyed hurting him... but she didn't really believe that he did.

But then later on when she mentioned the L word after seeing what he was doing and that he didn't really have a plan AND that he seemed consumed with his vigilante ego, then she realized that he might actually enjoy it. That would mean that he wasn't the guy she believed him to be, which meant she couldn't let herself fall any further for him.

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They kissed!  Then she kinda-sorta broke up with him.  Oh well.  I enjoyed it while it lasted, lol.  

 

Always happy to spend some time with Leland Owlsley, even if it's only a few minutes.  

 

What a treat to have a show with awesome fight scenes and characters who have thoughtful conversations.  Really enjoyed Vanessa and Fisk's date.

 

"My painting."  Like a little boy with his toys.  

 

And that ending!  I had to watch the first few minutes of the next episode to see how it played out.

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Crap!  A cliffhanger.  Luckily I don't have to wait a week...

 

Was this the episode where Foggy dropped the 12 letter mf bomb?  First "real swear" I recall on the show, and it comes from a protagonist, nice.

 

An okay episode, I felt too much time was spent on Foggy/Karen.  My biggest unanswered question - leading directly into the cliffhanger - is, what did Bad Cop tell the force?  If anything.  I suppose I'll find out soon if there's a force-wide APB foe a masked guy in black.  And, is the force dumb enough to fall for a costume change if / when Matt moves to red leather?

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I enjoyed the callback to the electrician from last episode.

I'm blanking on the electrician. Am I supposed to remember who that is?

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Okay, I can answer my own question now, in case anyone else was wondering - we never saw the electrician (who nearly burned his own house down with cigarettes and gasoline), but Matt and Foggy were walking out of the police station talking about bailing him out (with much grumbling from Foggy about their law firm's lack of money and equipment) right before Matt got that distress call from Claire and had to run off to save her.

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Another good episode. The chemistry between Matt and Claire was really something, but I was still a little surprised that Matt kissed her in the opening scenes. Still, it's Rosario Dawson so, blind or not, wouldn't you if you had the chance? Still, the talk of falling in love was very premature.

 

I'm really enjoying Deborah Ann Woll as Karen as well. She's got a cute, lively energy and a bit of feistiness that wasn't really evident when she was playing the victim at the beginning of the show. I hope they avoid any love triangle stuff between her and the two guys. But this episode didn't make me particularly hopeful. Foggy was getting into Karen, and she's just swooning about Matt.

 

The talk about Matt somehow knowing which girls were hot reminded me of Auggie in Covert Affairs, when he revealed that he knew when a woman was attractive by paying attention to how other guys spoke to her. Back when that show was actually decent.

 

I wasn't particularly interested in Foggy's case, and Foggy's ex though. The law stuff really feels like a distraction until it joins up with Matt's quest to get to the bottom of the criminal syndicate stuff. Were they really just sitting there, eating and chatting for an entire episode? Yeesh.

 

Those bent cops offing the Russian was kind of inevitable. You know that Fisk (or, more specifically, Wesley) wouldn't leave himself exposed, and would have all the angles covered. And I do find it interesting that Fisk seems so vulnerable, a lot of the time. He seems so shy and awkward, and so genuinely grateful to Wesley for doing the work he does. If he wasn't a psychopath who decapitates men with car doors, he might actually be sympathetic. Seems like Vanessa likes the idea of him being a psychopath, though. Well, some women do like that sort of thing, I guess.

 

I'd like to know more about Fisk's endgame vision for the city. It's an interesting element of a villain, that his goals are perhaps noble and laudable. And with this being the extended Marvel Universe, the idea that part of his quest is a reaction to what happened in The Avengers is interesting too.

 

Also, yikes at the cliffhanger. Can't wait until... now, for the next episode.

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I just started watching a few days ago.

 

I'm glad Matt/Claire isn't one of those awful romantic pairings where the people involved try to pretend they're not into each other when they clearly are. Just acknowledge that hot shit and get on with whatever you gotta get on with.

 

On the other hand, I don't know what to think of Karen and Foggy. I love them individually already and I think I'd like them together, but it's def weird for her to be "feel my face like a blind person."

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I knew those cops were dirty from the start!

 

Turk is the smart one here, it seems. Despite selling guns that jam. I'm not sure what to make of Senor Foggy and Karen. I'm fairly certain that was NOT about Foggy.

 

I wonder if there is a cooperation of Matthew and Vladimir in the future that will cause conflict with Claire.

 

I would NOT give up that gun.

 

Normally you don't blow up buildings in order to rebuild a city. I guess in Comicbookland, that seems a reasonable plan for someone who runs an art gallery.

 

I'm curious about the Japanese's guy's role in the conglomerate.

 

I'm also wondering if Claire has still a job? Did she quit? The reasonable thing would have been to call in sick, I guess. Does she just hang around that apartment all day waiting for DD to come back so she can patch him up?

 

Love Leland's plan to find his stun gun. He might need it. Or maybe a rocket launcher.

Edited by supposebly

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