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S04.E21: Mother


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Emma returns to Storybrooke to reunite Lily with Maleficent while Regina and Robin struggle to cope with the implications of Zelena's pregnancy. When Gold's health takes a turn for the worse, Isaac looks to a new ally for help procuring the magic ink he needs to re-write history. In a Fairy Tale Land flashback, Cora returns from Wonderland to beg Regina's forgiveness on the anniversary of Daniel's murder. Cora vows to help her daughter find true love, but Regina remains suspicious of her mother's intentions.
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Maybe I'm not following all the twists and turns of this storyline, but why was Regina able to just get some "dark ink" from Lily as opposed to turning Emma dark?  I thought the whole storyline revolved around Emma venturing to the dark side.

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So Regina knew the lesson this whole time? Then why did she destroy everybody's lives?

I did expect her to magically transfer the fetus from Zelena's womb to hers so it's nice they didn't go that way.

Why do they keep retconning Cora?

  • Love 4
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Maybe I'm not following all the twists and turns of this storyline, but why was Regina able to just get some "dark ink" from Lily as opposed to turning Emma dark?  I thought the whole storyline revolved around Emma venturing to the dark side.

 

Because they just needed the dark potential of the savior.  Lily had that.  I suppose Gold didn't know everything so his whole plan was pointless because he didn't know what Snowing did.

  • Love 2
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(edited)

I enjoyed seeing the “old” Regina in the EF again.  And her long-suffering father.
And of course Cora.  What a wonderfully dysfunctional family.  It was so cute when Cora told Regina she found her soulmate – and Regina was momentarily exasperated and maybe a bit embarrassed, like any kid would be when their parents are trying to set them up on a date. And, Yay! Nottingham is back.  And just as slimy as ever. 

I was glad Regina and Robin spared a thought for Roland in the midst of their soap opera pregnancy mess.  And by the way, I do miss seeing Roland.  I guess he’s hanging out with Ruby and Archie and all the other characters we never see any more.

Oh, how nice to see better makeup on Maleficent.  She looked so beautiful waiting to meet Lily.  And strangely Maleficent isn’t interested in revenge on Snow and Charming.  Good acting by Kristin Bauer van Straten in the diner when Lily rejected her and with the Charmings.  Unfortunately I found the chase scenes with Lily in dragon form a bit dull and confusing – why didn’t Maleficent change into a dragon in order to chase Lily?  Why did Snow run to the dragon?  What did she think she would accomplish?  Except it was a way to get Emma to heal Snow and have a conciliatory conversation full of forgiveness.  And wasn’t it uncomfortable for Snow lying her head on that rock?  Loved Hook’s expression during that scene.

My favorite quote: “You’re out if your mind!”  <evil satisfied smile> “Welcome to Storybrooke.”  Runner Up: “Your soul-mate is a married, moralizing sap.”

Still loving Hook’s scenes with Emma. They are nice and sweet with each other, making me believe it is a matter of when (not if) the show writers will inject some angst into their relationship.

And of course, the rogue Author escapes to write a new book that seems to be akin to the Mirror Universe from Star Trek.

 

The Rabbi - I think they just needed "dark savior" blood - although I'm not sure how Lily is classified as a savior.

ETA - agree with others that Lily did have Emma's dark potential, so that explains it.

Also - darn it, we still have to deal with Zelena's soap opera pregnancy.

Edited by Worsel
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Maybe I'm not following all the twists and turns of this storyline, but why was Regina able to just get some "dark ink" from Lily as opposed to turning Emma dark?  I thought the whole storyline revolved around Emma venturing to the dark side.

Lily had absorbed all of Emma's dark potential and that's all they needed.

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The ink had to come from Emma's darkness.  The blood of Lily was sufficient since it was suffused with Emma's darkness.  My gripe is that Regina should have had Zelena written off.  But Oh well.

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It was funny how smarmy and dim they had to make Nottingham to make him look bad by comparison.

 

There was a scene in the bar when Robin said something typical for him and Regina looked at him like he was the biggest moron who ever lived.  I have never agreed with Regina before.  So there is that.  It was short lived.

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Surprised The Author took the ink and went to Rumple.  Mirror World next week, but I like Barbara Hershey as the evil queen mother.   The two actresses have fun chewing scenery together.

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(edited)

My feelings were mixed, but I definitely liked it better than last week.

 

You'll like this episode if you...

... have been waiting for Regina to learn that moral lesson for the past 4 years. Finally, show!

... enjoy Cora. Yeah she was retconned again, but it wasn't as bad as Bleeding Through.

... think Maleficent is awesome. I want to keep her around.

... were waiting this whole arc for some freaking payoff.

... feel good inside during the little Captain Swan moments.

... missed Regina getting stuff done like she used to.

... find hilarity in the smallest things. Cora's shallow greeting to Henry Sr. cracked me up.

... are generally interested in Lily's character.

... like Robert Carlyle's speculator acting abilities.

... laugh from how over the top the Sheriff of Nottingham is.

 

You'll dislike this episode if you...

... find drugging children wrong. Forgetting potion for Roland? Just wow, show.

... were waiting for Regina to say, "Shut up, Zelena!"

... hoped for a better revelation in the flashbacks. Regina's infertile... okay?

... waited for an apology from Snowing and never got it.

... are tired of the dragon CGI.

... still don't dig Lily. She seems to only have one emotion - anger.

... want good reasons for villains entering friendly eating establishments. Cora and Rumple just casually visiting restaurants was a bit awkward.

 

There's a lot to process still. I'll definitely write more replies up.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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“Of all the characters I write, you really do get screwed over the most.”  I guess we don’t need three guesses to figure out who A&E’s self-insert character is.  I mean, Regina’s a character that sterilized herself to spite her mother.  I mean, having consequences to your own actions?  That’s totally being screwed over. 

And, while Barbara Hershey’s Cora was well-acted?  That was a lot of flashback that was unnecessary.

 

Since you need darkened “savior” blood to make the magic ink?  Does that mean there’s a cycle of “savior” people occasionally?

 

Okay, I’m not a fan of the “Maleficent should’ve been allowed to be a mother” plotline.  No, she shouldn’t’ve.  (Yes, Snow and Charming were wrong to curse and evil-up Maleficent’s baby, but they weren’t wrong to take her away, and it still isn’t in-character for them, considering the first 3 seasons.) But, wow, Lily’s really quite the peach, isn’t she?  “I can teach you about being a scary dragon bitch.”  Huh.  It sounds like mother-daughter massacre lessons are at some point in their future.  Lovely.

 

Also, why are only the characters with evil allowed to express anger about things they have a right to be angry about?  Did A&E never get the message that anger in and of itself isn’t bad, it’s just a feeling?  Sometimes a justifiable feeling?

I have to give Hook credit.  He was a really good boyfriend this episode.

  • Love 4
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DID REGINA JUST FINALLY LEARN HER LESSON?

Anyways. Nothing happened the first half an hour.

Nooo!!! Killian,did you not learn your lesson the last time you antagonized Rumple? Hold is like your kryptonite dude!

Loved the CS scenes.

Liked the Snow/Emma scene.

So if Cora came by rabbit, I take it that this takes place around the time Alice met Cyrus. I'm not sure I agree with the characterization of Cora claiming she was kinda wrong about "love is weakness," when she states that when we see her in season 2. And regina took the same stuff Snow had? It can easily be reversed with some magic water.

I like Mal. She's a smart cookie. Knows that

Revenge doesn't equal happiness.

And Lily agreed to staying for 1 week. Isn't that the same amount of time Emma said she was going to spend there before sticking around forever.

Next week looks bonkers! I don't know if I can take dashing Hero Rumple seriously.

Evil Snow looks like fun. And was that Killian's old pirate outfit he used to wear? The one when he and team princess met? Yay if it is!

Kinda proud of Regina, but we'll see if it lasts.

  • Love 3
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That was a decent episode. Cora is rude as fuck. Barbra Hershey is a delight to see but i hate how they keep retconning her. Regina realizing that Robin isn't her happy ending earned her 10 points from all her whining she's done for 4 seasons. That was a really good moment for her. To bad she left the ink near a guy who can't resist writing fanfiction.

 

Damn, Emma was sitting between Killians legs while getting drunk. They even make that look adorable. JFC. I must admit I got misty eyed with Emma and Snow. Mother/daughter relationships on this show is my guilty pleasure. I also loved Emma's line to Hook about love seeing people finding their good hearts and Hook does that embarrassed thing he does when he can't take a compliment. Those two are so much alike.

 

Rumple should be dead. Damn you Isaac. Next week is going to be fanfic galore.

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(edited)

 

“Of all the characters I write, you really do get screwed over the most.”  I guess we don’t need three guesses to figure out who A&E’s self-insert character is

The writers' permanent love and favoritism for Regina is now canon. If anyone had any doubts about it, there you go.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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(edited)

I couldn't make it past five minutes.  Not only did Regina and Robin seriously discuss erasing Roland's memories back to before Zelarian, but Regina made Robin's problems all about her and how she can't have anything nice.

 

TS,TW

Edited by Actionmage
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(edited)

It was good and fine and did a great job of setting things up, but Cora seemed a little shoe horned into the episode. It was nice to see her back though -- Barbara Hershey is deliciously evil. Lots of mother references though, almost too many. Oh look, it's about moms and the episode is called Mother. Watch out for the anvil that's about to fall on your head.

Loved seeing Captain Swan together. After quickly tying up a bunch of broken relationships this episode, it was nice to see at least one pairing is steady and strong.

For me, the best part was the preview for next week. Looks epic!

Edited by sharky
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I was ready to write this episode off as another disappointment, and then the last ten minutes happened. Emma finally, finally, forgave Snow after her lovely chat with Hook. PastRegina took a potion to make herself barren (really did not see that coming), and Rumple made a book titled Heroes and Villains (very on the nose there show).

 

The last few minutes actually made me excited to see the finale next week which is surprising because I have been feeling down about the show for most of 4b.

 

There were still a few things that grated on my nerves: too many flashbacks with Regina/Cora. Regina crushing that dude's heart was such a dick move.

 

I still don't buy Rumple and his black coal heart/chest pain of doom. Regina saying "it's finally happening" does not provide sufficient evidence of a plot that the writer's clearly pulled out of their backsides.

 

Still not enough Hook for me. I need more than two/three scenes an episode, and poor Will/Belle were not in sight at all.

 

Maleficent is so low energy, which is odd for a dragon. She definitely did not do everything she could to keep Lily from being stolen.

 

I also kind of disliked Regina saying she no longer needed the author. What was the whole point of these last nine episodes then?

 

Basically, the first ten minutes and the last ten minutes of the episode were engaging for me. The middle allowed me to do some laundry folding, so that's something.

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“Of all the characters I write, you really do get screwed over the most.”  I guess we don’t need three guesses to figure out who A&E’s self-insert character is.  I mean, Regina’s a character that sterilized herself to spite her mother.  I mean, having consequences to your own actions?  That’s totally being screwed over...

 

I take the unreliable narrator approach to this. The author was just sucking up to Regina. Once Regina decided she wasn't going to give him a juicy story to write, he scampered on back to Rumpelstiltskin for some fun.

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OK....who was Hook swordfighting in the promo? Was that actually Charming? If so, YES! Sorry, I've just been wanting that.

Looks like it. I'm thinking he's going up to get the crazy princess from her guyliner wearing father.

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still don't dig Lily. She seems to only have one emotion - anger.

But that made her last scene with Maleficent all the more powerful, and damn did Agnes sell it.

Also, I thought her angry lines to Mal and Regina were hilarious.

  • Love 1
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(edited)

So, most of the episode was a snoozefest, but there were some pretty good scenes to make up for it. The CS moments were all fantastic! I loved Killian giving a different perspective to Emma. That Emma/Snow reconciliation scene was lovely (i teared up), and I liked Mal's scene with Lily that followed after that as well. 

 

Shut the eff up Isaac. Regina did not have it the worst!!

 

I loved seeing Cora back. I was trying hard to block Bleeding Through from my mind. But there were several callbacks to that episode. I guessed Regina was going to make herself infertile. Regina is the kind of person who drinks poison and expects her enemy to die.

 

Regina finally realized she was her own worst enemy. Hope this lasts into next season. Robin is still boring and still desperate. Poor Roland. 

 

I don't get why the Author is helping Rumple. Whatever...

 

Hook gloating at Rumple was funny. 

 

I hope Mal doesn't die. I liked her scenes with Snowing. 

Edited by Rumsy4
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 I'm not sure I agree with the characterization of Cora claiming she was kinda wrong about "love is weakness," when she states that when we see her in season 2.

The only thing that makes any sense, if Cora is to be in-character, is that Regina was right.  Cora was hoping for a grandchild she could control after she killed Regina.  Because at this point in time, Cora doesn't have a heart, and, well, Cora was known to be manipulative down to the last minute of her life.  (You would have been enough . . .  Bwhahaha.  Yeah, right.  We know what you did to Zelena.)

 

I take the unreliable narrator approach to this. The author was just sucking up to Regina. Once Regina decided she wasn't going to give him a juicy story to write, he scampered on back to Rumpelstiltskin for some fun.

Yeah, he was sucking up . . . but, since it does sound a whole lot like something A&E have said in interviews, he meant it, too.

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I loved the forgiveness scene.

I hated that Regina did not do anything to zelena... send her away.

I'm really sick of Hook antagonizing Rumple. I really am. Yea, Rumple is bad but it's not a good idea. Just like blackmaiLing the Dark one is not. Learn from your lessons.

And then, finally, Rumple admits that he's keeping a beast at bay (no pun intended) I love that. And everyone is dumb for pissing off this guy who has announced he won't be jovial imp him for long.

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(edited)

There were actually some beautiful moments in this. First off, Maleficent assuring Lily that she "doesn't mind a little darkness" was really, really sweet. Because of course she wouldn't. :) But really, it was nice to see her not only accepting her daughter for who she is but assuring her that the dark cloud hovering over her would be welcome, too. Because much like Emma, Lily also needs the reassurance that if she lets Maleficent in, she won't take off running in the other direction.

 

The Captain Swan bit by the water was absolutely lovely and the later bit where Emma actually takes Hook's advice and forgives Snow? Made me misty. That was just ... goodness, I thought that my OTP couldn't be any more OTP and then that happened. Like, he was able to get through to her that she was running again and that really wasn't what she wanted, and she respects him and his opinion enough to listen. And when Snow and Emma grasped each other and just held on for dear life, that was it, I lost it.

 

Oh, and Barbara Hershey can come back any time. I always feel like she has a total blast playing Cora.

 

 

 

I also kind of disliked Regina saying she no longer needed the author. What was the whole point of these last nine episodes then?

 

These are the kinds of things that make me believe this show is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Because there seemed to be a lot of disgust for the idea of Regina forcing the Author to write her happy ending because of free will and how the notion that her happy ending was something someone could just hand her was completely missing the point. And now Regina finally -- finally -- recognizes that she's the one standing in the way of her own happiness this whole time and that she never needed the Author in the first place, and there's still annoyance. The fact that end lesson of Back to the Future is "the future is whatever you make it" doesn't make the entire trilogy pointless. Sometimes the journey is the point. Like, I don't know what else was expected to come out of this plotline.

Edited by Dani-Ellie
  • Love 17
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OK....who was Hook swordfighting in the promo? Was that actually Charming? If so, YES! Sorry, I've just been wanting that.

I know we've debated it in the Hook thread, but with this being the Author's/Rumple's fanfiction, does the fight really count? If Rumple's jumped on the "Hero's always win" bandwagon and he sees Killy as the villain, then he'll probably lose. His loss would be influenced.

I'm more interested in a fair fight without any author shenanigans.

Anyways, I'm still wondering why the heroes are letting the author pal around with Rumple.

And I'm happy that Cora was only slightly retconned this time around. I'll blame it on her twisted motherly love, and her wanting to keep royalty and power in the family line.

  • Love 1
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Thank you A&E for telling everyone exactly how you feel about Regina, got it loud and clear.

 

Those Mills women are fucked up to the core though and rapey as hell.  Cora having her daughter sleep with a man Regina thinks is another?  Great plan Cora and WTF!

 

Captain Swan just make me happy and their scenes were lovely and I like that he is a sounding board for Emma and that he gets to call her out on her behavior when he sees that she's taken things too far.  Also, him rubbing it in Gold's face that his plan for Emma failed?  Priceless.  We have Regina to thank for the whole ink debacle.

  • Love 8
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And then, finally, Rumple admits that he's keeping a beast at bay (no pun intended) I love that. And everyone is dumb for pissing off this guy who has announced he won't be jovial imp him for long.

Agreed.  And this makes Rumple unique among the villains - his evil is not entirely his fault because he is cursed - therefore we must believe he is not entirely responsible for his bad choices?  Given the show's promotion of free will and taking responsibility for one's actions, it is difficult to reconcile that with Rumple's situation.

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(edited)

Sometimes the journey is the point. Like, I don't know what else was expected to come out of this plotline.

that is just....

applause-3.gif

 

 

 

I have to say watching OUAT after a glass and half of wine makes it so much more watchable.

 

didn't feel like Cora was out of character. she was her old ambitious self. her old desire was to be queen, now she is, the next logical is having a line of heirs! makes totally sense.

I like Mal.. which is hard to write, my heart goes out to Lily such a broken child, who is trying to pretend she is not a child anymore. she's Emma's replica only with dark brown hair.

Captain Swan continues to be the show strongest appeal.

 

Next week looks interesting.

Edited by foreverevolving
  • Love 2
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I love all things Captain Swan. Hook was Emma's rock this episode, and made her see that she needed to forgive her mother. And, I think Charming recognized that Hook was responsible for their reunion. Lovely.

  • Love 3
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(edited)

I don't know if I would jump on A&E because the Author said she got the shaft the most. To me, it was just the Author kissing her ass too cover his. I think that may be why he gravitated to Gold at the end -- they're both just opportunists.

That being said, I will get on the writers cases about Cora telling Regina she has to make her down happy ending. Yes, it was truth and needed to be said but it was said 30 YEARS AGO! Did Regina forgot about it until a flashback when Zelena mentioned dear mummy? Really? You've chased this Author down for an entire season and you only just now remember Cora saying that to you?

Edited by sharky
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I have to say watching OUAT after a glass and half of wine makes it so much more watchable.

didn't feel like Cora was out of character. she was her old ambitious self. her old desire was to be queen, now she is, the next logical is having a line of heirs! makes totally sense.

I like Mal.. which is hard to write, my heart goes out to Lily such a broken child, who is trying to pretend she is not a child anymore. she's Emma's replica only with dark brown hair.

Captain Swan continues to be the show strongest appeal.

Next week looks interesting.

That's what I believe about Cora too. Keeping the royal line within the family. The only problem I had was when she basically said that she was wrong about the "love is weakness" idea unless she was lying her face off. Which she could have been.

  • Love 1
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Why does David yell "Mary Margaret!" first and then "Snow!" when she gets hurt? I wish he'd pick a name and stick with it.

 

I think of them as two people also. Mary Margret is the dumbass that runs towards fire breathing dragons and thinks she murdered Cora.  Snow is the badass that gets hurt because Mary Margret has control of the body in Storybrooke.

  • Love 15
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I think of them as two people also. Mary Margret is the dumbass that runs towards fire breathing dragons and thinks she murdered Cora.  Snow is the badass that gets hurt because Mary Margret has control of the body in Storybrooke.

This theory is awesome. 

 

I'm quoting it only because it bears repeating.

  • Love 3
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Anyone side eye the line where Zelena said "Robin would never forgive you for killing the mother of his child." to Regina? I know she didn't do it this time but that just doesn't seem to matter anymore. Hell Robin being raped doesn't matter.

  • Love 12
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(edited)

“It’s a shame. I mean, writing a happy ending for the Evil Queen? Well, you’ve always been a favorite of mine. Very clear goals, plus totally damaged personality, with a self-destructive streak? A recipe for compelling. And of all the characters I’ve written for, you really do get screwed over the most.”

 

I know part of this has already been partially quoted upthread, but the full quote here really shows how freaking biased these writers are for Regina. Like, can you get any more meta than that?

 

Also quite meta:

“This is my town and this is my story. You’ve just been a supporting player this whole time.”
Edited by Curio
  • Love 12
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Wouldn't mind having the Sheriff of Nottingham's strong arms around me, woowoo!

 

Next episode: The fairy-tale version of "The Wish" from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.  Or the 'Age of Apocalypse' storyline from the X-men comics from twenty years ago....Christ, I feel old.

  • Love 4
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That's what I believe about Cora too. Keeping the royal line within the family. The only problem I had was when she basically said that she was wrong about the "love is weakness" idea unless she was lying her face off. Which she could have been.

It's cora, she's a self absorb character. she'll say what she needs in order to get her way.

and if that doesn't work, she'll rip your heart out.. HOT!, Also why I freakin love her. she owns to who she is. (which is not to say i'm not enjoying Regina redemption, cause i now care for her so I want her to be happy.... lines I never imagined i'd say when I was a child, for 500 Alex!)

Also, Barbara Hershey.

 

Cora can't have any children anymore, she probably realized that while in Wonderland- no one of her bloodline to take over when she's gone. So she went to try and manipulate Regina to make sure the line is secure. it almost worked.

 

And oh, WOW! Zelena & Regina were right... they are their mother daughters... Cora would have been so damn proud.

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Sometimes the journey is the point. Like, I don't know what else was expected to come out of this plotline.

 

I agree, but in this case, I don't think Regina's journey was written coherently or her change of heart in two seconds flat was all that believable. Regina remembers a conversation that she had with her mother decades ago, and suddenly she realizes that she has everything that she could ever want?

 

Ultimately, I don't feel like the writers earned Regina's turnaround concerning the author. For me, that's because Regina's definition of a happy ending was ill-defined for almost all of 4b.

  • Love 17
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(edited)

Its so weird that Regina still has a staffed insane asylum under the hospital.  Shouldn't they have shut that down?  Who else does she have locked up down there?

Edited by ParadoxLost
  • Love 4
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Its so weird that Regina still has a staffed insane asylum under the hospital.  Shouldn't they have shut that down?  Who else does she have locked up down there?

Yes, it's weird.

Yes, it should have been shut down.

Anyone Regina wants, apparently.

 

Can I add that the very traditionally dressed nurse who gave Regina the stink-eye was a highlight of the episode for me?

  • Love 2
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I did enjoy that they name-dropped both Tinkerbell and Dr. Whale, knowing that Rose McIver and David Anders thankfully found (IMO) better work on, on iZombie.

 

Almost surprised they kicked off the episode by having Regina murdering just because they had a wedding without permission (on the day that happened to when Cora killed her stable boy.)  I mean, sure, it was back during her Evil Queen days, but these days, I'm almost impressed they would remind viewers of how she killed people willy nilly.  Of course, I can't help but wonder if The Author's comment about how she is his favorite was just him sucking up, or the writers just finally telling the truth.

 

So, I'm trying to figure all this out.  Basically, instead of needing Emma to turn evil, Regina figured out she can just take Lily's blood instead for the ink, because it works?  Because she somehow has the potential of Emma's darkness?  I guess that's one way to interpret things.  Meanwhile, Regina's first act was going to flat-out wipe Zelena out of existence, but finally (FINALLY!) realizes that she's been her own worst enemy, so changes her mind, and is content with having a happy life with Robin.  Issac though had other plans, so he zips off and goes back to Rumpel.  And, so Rumpel's grand plan begins.

 

Maleficent his finding out that it ain't easy raising a daughter.  Especially when she can turn into a fire-breathing dragon, when she gets a bit agitated.

 

Hook is the best.  He finally convinces Emma that maybe she can't harp on Charming/Snow forever.  What they did was horrible and I certainly still have issues over it, but enough is enough.  Time to move forward, Emma.

 

Finale next week!  It does look fun at least.

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