S02.E20: Quon Zhang

[ottoDbusdriver]

Episode Description:

 

After decoding the information that is embedded in The Fulcrum, Red is determined to stop the imminent threat. Meanwhile, the task force discovers that deceased bodies of Chinese-American women are being smuggled out of the country under false identities. Liz continues to search for answers about her past after discovering a picture hidden in Red's secret flat.

 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Here's the curious thing -- the episode description talks about dead bodies of Chinese-American women being smuggled out of the country, yet the preview on the NBC web site mentions nothing about this at all.  It's almost like the case of the week is just filler to pad out the episode since the actual season long story about Red just isn't enough to fill up 22 episodes.  Then there's Lizzie and her parental issues which no one really cares about -- first it was all about her daddy and now it's going to be mommy issues.

 

http://www.nbc.com/the-blacklist/video/coming-up-only-three-episodes-left/2861214?onid=137761#vc137761=1

 

The preview says that

the whole world is coming after Red and anyone around him (the whole world, seriously, all 7+ billion people on the planet are coming after Red, that's a little bit of an exaggeration by the promo monkeys), and we get a scene of tough Lizzie saying "Let them try".  Oh, Megan Boone, try as you might, your acting sucks and you just can't pull off tough.  And there's more forced romance with Lizzie standing in the rain leaping into Tom's arms --- awwwwwww, they are trying to show Lizzie really is falling back in love with Tom when really it's more about the fact that Lizzie has no one else to talk to since she has no friends outside of work so Tom gets her attention by default.  Who writes this crap ?  Followed by what looks like Samar shooting Dembe, but I doubt that's how that really plays out.

 

Who wants to wager that the Blacklister of the week, Quon Zhang, also is not captured/killed during the episode ?

 

I'm still curious why the carving on top of Tom's box o' passports and cash that was under the floorboards at their house had a carving on the top that looked exactly like the burn mark on Lizzie's arm. Because that was never really explained, or is that little coincidence going to just be forgotten.

[Danielg342]

Who wants to wager that the Blacklister of the week, Quon Zhang, also is not captured/killed during the episode ?

 

I have another wager- that Quon Zhang will turn out to be a "good" guy that needs to stick around because he can help Red, just like The Longevity Initiative, Ruslan Denisov or just this past week, Leonard Caul.

[paigow]

Wager #1: Quon is a Triad member sending cash back to China inside the bodies.

Wager #2: The women are not really dead, but zombie weapons that Red needs for "the war that is coming"

Wager #3: Jon Snow decapitates Red and says "Winter is coming, punk!"

[Julia]

- That was the best episode about a chinese national being killed so the family of a dead dude would have a corpse to use in a posthumous spirit marriage since that episode of Bones.

- I'm shocked that evil amoral Attorney General guy is evil and amoral.

- I'm absolutely certain that Red keeps his secrets in his official residence where Lizzie has a chance in hell of finding them ever since the cub scouts ran across them during one of the regular hide and seek days he hosts at his shadowy lair.

- Dear lord, is Megan Boone not right for this part.

[Writing Wrongs]

I feel like they are trying to make Lizzie into Sydney from Alias. There are no comparisons.

 

I fell asleep during the episode.

[AimingforYoko]

So was Red implying that Lizzie's mom was Elizabeth Jennings?

[shura]

"Hi, this is Agent Aram Mojtabai from the FBI. We have reason to believe that you may be in danger. Also, you owe back taxes to the IRS and will be in even greater trouble if you don't pay right now. I accept Visa and MasterCard." 

[Danielg342]

I still haven't seen the episode, but I do have one question for those that have: does Dembe make it? The preview last week has me concerned...

[thuganomics85]

 

I still haven't seen the episode, but I do have one question for those that have: does Dembe make it? The preview last week has me concerned...

Yep, he's totally fine!  It was all a set-up by Red, to get that Jasper guy to trust Samar and spill what he knows about the cabal's plan.

 

 

I feel like they are trying to make Lizzie into Sydney from Alias.

Funnily enough, I'm actually watching that show now for the first time, on Netflix.  And, I totally got a chuckle over the doctor who had to investigate the body in the bomb-suit, is played by the same actor who played Marshal on that show.  But, I would kill to have Victor Garber show up as an enemy for Red.  The scenes he and James Spader would have...

 

I never even heard of the whole " some Chinese believe if you aren't buried with another body, you won't have a spouse in the afterlife" tradition, so this entire plot really had me thrown for a loop.  Fun seeing Ron Yuan as the Blacklister, but he didn't have much to do.

 

Was I suppose to find Lizzie/Tom's hug in the rain romantic?  I just found it so, so stupid.  Really, this entire story-line about Lizzie's parents, Red's secrets, and Tom's involvement, is just not working for me.

 

Harold just can't win.  When his friend isn't dicking him over, his own wife is going behind his back out of "love."

 

I wonder what David Strathairn is going to do with that severed tongue, Red kindly sent him...

[buttersister]

Pickle it on rye with Swiss and Russian dressing?

 

First it was Lizzie's father, now it's Lizzie's mother (and Lizzie's husband). Biggest mystery is still why Lizzie.

[torqy]

Please Sir, may we have some more Samar?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Would it really matter if that woman's corpse had any STDs ?  Would that be a deal breaker ?  What if it was just an innocuous STD like chlamydia vs. a scorching case of gonorrhea ?  Would that be ok ?

 

Wow, that photo from Lizzie's flip phone is pretty amazing quality ?  That's the kind of quality you would get if she scanned the original photo, regardless of how much it was "enhanced".

 

And Tom thinks he has Red all figured out.  And also recognizes the ring on Lizzie's mother's finger as the same kind that Berlin had.  A Russian Inspection stamp - why would anyone wear a ring that on it ?  Lizzie gives Tom an assignment to go to Berlin's people and see what he can find out about the ring.  But did they ever find out anything about the ring ?

 

Even Red acknowledges that the Fulcrum data is 25 years out of date.  Finally.

 

How did Lizzie still have the key to Red's apartment ?  Wouldn't Dembe have asked for that back after the crisis was over last week ?  And has Bill Kershaw's name ever been mentioned before -- because I would have never determined that was name used by Red for his apartment.  Was there a scene cut in the previous episode ?

 

So, Lizzie is Russian, born in Moscow to Soviet intelligence agents.  How was she brought up in the US ?  Her mom's name was Katarina Rusova and her father was also Russian.  So what was Lizzie's maiden name ?

 

And the corpse was given veneers for what purpose to look perfect for her corpse husband.  Sure, why not ?  But couldn't they do that in China after the body arrived ?

 

Lizzie goes after the crooked dentist by herself ?  Which makes no sense.  What if there were multiple baddies with guns there ?

 

Are mail-order corpse brides really a thing ?  Not to pick at a tradition, but while you may be appeasing a dead guy, what if in the process you are displeasing the dead woman.  Won't she haunt you and cause bad luck ?  Does the dead guy also need to be free of STDs ?  What if the dead woman was gay ?  I'm not sure they really thought this all the way through.

 

Are prosperity notes really a thing ?  Apparently they are.  Whatever.

 

Mass casualty events the Director of the Cabal is planning ?  Events, plural.  On a defense installation next week ?  Because why exactly ?

 

Boo, hoo, hoo -- Lizzie's crying in the rain.  No one cares.  Lizzie standing in the rain outside Tom's door.  Still no one cares.  But she really, really needs a hug -- and only Tom (who still hasn't got that damn SS tattoo removed yet) can help because Lizzie has absolutely no one else.   Couldn't she just snuggle up with her dog ?  Remember the dog she has in her motel room ?   Still no sign of him this episode, though we did get to see Red's cat again.

 

Lizzie has Red's phone number labeled as Nick's Pizza -- somehow I doubt Red uses the same phone twice, so what would be the point of even doing that ?

 

What was the end result with Quon Zhang ?  Was he incarcerated or let go ?  Because if he was let go, that makes six weeks in a row that a Blacklister has gotten off the hook.

 

And who was the dude smuggled into the country in the coffin -- Lizzie's daddy home for the holidays ?

 

This was just a terrible episode -- the Blacklister of the week just seemed to be an afterthought and was used as filler to pad out an otherwise lackluster episode.

Edited May 1, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[molshoop]

http://time.com/3547741/11-arrested-in-china-for-digging-up-and-selling-womens-corpses-as-brides/

 

Ghost brides are a real thing.

[Primetimer]

Is that a potentially deadly terrorist attack in your coffin, or are you just happy to see me?

Read the story

[saber5055]

"Hi, this is Agent Aram Mojtabai from the FBI. We have reason to believe that you may be in danger. Also, you owe back taxes to the IRS and will be in even greater trouble if you don't pay right now. I accept Visa and MasterCard."

 

 

That, plus: "Your computer has been hacked. All you need to do is open this window and remove this .exec file while I watch on my computer here, which sees your computer there. And yes, we also accept Discover."

 

So that ending scene was suppose to be romantic? Sobby sad-face Lizzie standing in the rain? And she won't come in so Tom has to go out in the rain to hug her? The heck? Just grab her arm and pull her in, you stoop, and get out of the freaking rain.

 

I'm so over Lizzie and her family angst. I want her gone in so many different ways.

 

Great post, Otto. You've taken all my questions right out of my typing fingers!

[Moxie Cat]

The ghost bride thing may be real, but seriously....is it really his family's fault if a young man dies before getting married? I can see blaming the girl who ditched him at the altar, but do the Chinese, in this day and age, really blame their entire family if they remain single? Why would a dead young man wish a horrendous fire, early death, and other assorted bad luck on his loving parents and brother just because he never got married? Why was that their fault? 

 

Egads, these scenes of Red doling out tidbits of information, while then refusing to say more, and then Lizzie threatening to "find out on her own" are getting so freaking tedious. 

 

Well, why not rip off Alias; Scandal has already tried that too. At this point, I'm absolutely positive that Lizzie's mother will turn out to a) not be dead; b) still be a spy; c) be Blacklister of the week, likely in the season finale; and d) Lena Olin.

 

Only good scenes here were coroner Marshall and Navabi's con (I totally bought her ruse in the car!) And I still like Tom, or maybe just Eggold. As long as he's doing car commercials for the show, I'm guessing that Tom isn't going anywhere.

[TV Anonymous]

- I'm shocked that evil amoral Attorney General guy is evil and amoral.

 

I am sorry to nitpick, but you surely mean immoral, do you not?

[Julia]

I am sorry to nitpick, but you surely mean immoral, do you not?

 

No, I surely don't. I don't think he thinks he's transgressing against anything meaningful. I think the moral aspect of it is irrelevant to him.

[saber5055]

Egads, these scenes of Red doling out tidbits of information, while then refusing to say more, and then Lizzie threatening to "find out on her own" are getting so freaking tedious.

 

 

Plus Lizzie keeps describing Red as a big fat lying liar who lies, so how can she believe anything he does or does not tell her? Tedious, yes. I wish he'd just tell her something, anything, since she either will or won't believe it anyway. So what's the point?

 

Raise your hand, anyone who cares if Lizzie even had parents ...

[Julia]

Plus Lizzie keeps describing Red as a big fat lying liar who lies, so how can she believe anything he does or does not tell her? Tedious, yes. I wish he'd just tell her something, anything, since she either will or won't believe it anyway. So what's the point?

 

Besides, the FBI is officially OK with him committing murder. What exactly is the dimmest detective on the east coast going to discover about him that's going to endanger him?

[Suzysite]

 

Raise your hand, anyone who cares if Lizzie even had parents ...

*Sheepishly raises hand*   I actually like the personal background story.  It's the reason I watch.  Who needs yet another cold police procedural full of bad guys and car chases?  Not me. 

[Danielg342]

Well, I actually thought that was a lot of fun, mostly because James Spader was just having a ball. I haven't seen Marathon Man but it must be some interrogation scene if Red takes a particular liking to it.

 

I also loved how they fooled Kenneth Jasper into thinking he was going to meet the same fate, only to be fooled into thinking Samar Navabi was going to rescue him. That's how you do an interrogation, folks. I have to say, Criminal Minds set the bar pretty high as far as legal interrogations go...and The Blacklist just owned them.

 

(Well, technically that interrogation wasn't legal...but it could have been)

 

I was also mildly pleased that this time the Blacklister wasn't a throwaway and actually contributed to the larger case at hand. Samar may have gotten the intel on the Cabal's plan, but she didn't get the info on the weapon...Quon Zhang did. That weapon will be Karakurt. I'm still a little fuzzy about how Zhang's operation worked- why didn't he just transport Karakurt in the coffin? Why the need to ship dead bodies back to China? I presume they were "payment" but the episode didn't make it clear. Still, at least Zhang was an active player in the larger plot, which is more than I can say about some of the other Blacklisters lately.

 

Not sure about Cooper vs. Connolly...it's a great tête a tête, but I still get the feeling Cooper is being played a bit too easily. I mean, come on- Harold, you figured out that Connolly was playing games with you, and you readily buy his explanation that Connolly is not doing it for himself? I get that friends likely give their friends the benefit of the doubt, but Cooper should know that Connolly has likely prepared for Cooper confronting him and that Connolly, as an experienced attorney, knows every mind game there is. Still, at least Cooper is on to him, and I'm hopeful he'll start playing some games himself- he's more than capable.

 

Lizzie and Tom...well, not terribly interested, but at least it's nice knowing that Tom is no longer harbouring secrets from her.

 

Overall, this was really, really good and it's a pity people are missing out. NBC, put this show back on Monday!

[TV Anonymous]

Okay, I am Asian and I never heard about this ghost brides. But apparently they are real, so I guess I learn something new every day. However, a question remains. Why those body providers provide bodies from the United States when the reason is the lack of bodies in China? United States is a modern and developed country. Law enforcement there is arguably among the more effective in the world. As well, there are oceans apart between the U.S. and China, particularly from the East Coast.

 

In the meantime, there are plenty of Chinese communities in Southeast Asia. As well, law enforcement there is considerably more lax than it is in the U.S. Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines to name a few. Those places are much closer too. The case of stolen corpses should be prevalent in the areas around China first before it ever hits the U.S.

 

On another note, I think we all should pity Lizzie. Since the fallout with Tom and Berlin - and the change of season - she has to slum it now and drive a Chevrolet instead of the brand new Mercedes-Benz.

[pcta]

Finally watched this episode. Can it be possible that Lizzie's acting skills are actually deteriorating. I would love to know what they saw in the actress that led TPTB to actually think she had the chops to do this role. Love Spader but he would be even better if he had a decent actress to work off of.

[Wynterwolf]

 

Surely if Lizzie and both her parents were Russian citizens, that would have shown up in the FBI background check.

 

I have a feeling Red doctored her records at the same time he had someone block her memories.  What he said about the father was that both her parents were in "foreign intelligence", but he was only specific about her mother being KGB.  He was choosing his words very, very carefully.  

[torqy]

Well, I actually thought that was a lot of fun, mostly because James Spader was just having a ball. I haven't seen Marathon Man but it must be some interrogation scene if Red takes a particular liking to it.

 

 

 

You owe it to yourself to see Marathon Man. Red's gushing description of William Devane was hilarious but accurate. Ditto the interrogation scene.

[Danielg342]

You owe it to yourself to see Marathon Man. Red's gushing description of William Devane was hilarious but accurate. Ditto the interrogation scene.

 

This scene?

[torqy]

This scene?

That's the one!

[saber5055]

Oh, man, I cannot watch that Marathon Man clip. Believe it or not, I saw that movie when it first came out, in the theater. That was almost 40 years ago. I haven't watched it since, but I remember that dental scene like it was yesterday.

 

Lizzie and Tom...well, not terribly interested, but at least it's nice knowing that Tom is no longer harbouring secrets from her.

 

 

Well, not that we know of anyway. Because, like Red, Lizzie has called Tom a lying liar who lies. Lizzie really waffles between needing/trusting/hating/not trusting/not needing both Red and Tom. Geesh.

 

If you ask me, Donald is the only safe guy in the room. Which means I don't want him hanging out with Lizzie, ever.

Edited May 2, 2015 by saber5055

[Danielg342]

Oh, man, I cannot watch that Marathon Man clip. Believe it or not, I saw that movie when it first came out, in the theater. That was almost 40 years ago. I haven't watched it since, but I remember that dental scene like it was yesterday.

I actually found it quite tame compared to what we see now...perhaps because I grew up with the Tarantinos, Saw and the like. I imagine, for 1976, it was pretty out there, and I also imagine it spawned a lot of imitators (which might also explain my reaction to it, since it's not something I hadn't seen before).

However, I will say I found it to be incredibly effective, being a scene that so many gore-obsessed writers and producers could learn from today. Just seeing Dustin Hoffman and all his fear, coupled with Laurence Olivier's cold, expressionless look and how he just nonchalantly went through the motions of washing his hands and laying out his tools, was enough to strike fear in my heart. There was no “scene-setting” orchestral score, Olivier didn't cackle like a madman, there wasn't all this blood splattering everywhere, and, I think best of all, no one explained what each tool was for- in fact, the scene was relatively quiet.

That's fear- not knowing what is going on. Sure, some stuff did happen- like the drill and scraping Hoffman's cavity- but you didn't know that was coming beforehand, and seeing the breadth of tools there implied that more could happen (if it wasn't going to). The scene struck the right balance between implying and displaying pain, one that I think is a hallmark for future writers to achieve.

As it pertains to this episode, I think it also highlights how effective the scene with Samar was. We've been trained- in past episodes- to expect almost every interrogation Red gives (or receives) to involve an excruciating amount of pain (making some of those scenes very difficult to watch). So when we saw this interrogation, and saw that at first Jasper was going to receive pain, only to see Samar “rescue” him and trick him into thinking she was on his side, it was a work of art, since it reminds the viewer that interrogating isn't about pain it's about mind games, and there's no greater mind game than making someone believe they're being rescued from unbearable peril when they're not. So much like how Marathon Man messed with Hoffman by not telling him everything that could happen to him, Samar messed with Jasper by making him think his terror was ending, when it really was only beginning.

So for the writer- or rather, writers, J.R. Orci and Lukas Reiter- who paid homage to Marathon Man- good work. Maybe you didn't equal that scene- who can, really?- but at least you got very close, and it's something I'd say is a worthy “sequel”.

[saber5055]

Heck, just the THOUGHT of going to a dentist for a regular checkup or to fill a cavity gives people the tremors and makes them want to hide or run away. I know people who will suffer with a cavity and constant tooth ache before they will go to a dentist.  I think that was the biggest power behind that Marathon Man scene ... a dentist with a drill ... worse than a terrorist with a rifle. Well, MENTALLY, anyway. 

 

The mind/imagination is a most powerful tool, as proven by Psycho's shower scene.

[Julia]

One of the most common anxiety dreams is teeth falling out. It's supposed to signal the fear of someone discovering you're not as good as you're pretending to be. I'm not sure if that's about fear of dentists or fear of dentists is about that, but it's apparently really strong either way.

[torqy]

I actually found it quite tame compared to what we see now...perhaps because I grew up with the Tarantinos, Saw and the like. I imagine, for 1976, it was pretty out there, and I also imagine it spawned a lot of imitators (which might also explain my reaction to it, since it's not something I hadn't seen before).

However, I will say I found it to be incredibly effective, being a scene that so many gore-obsessed writers and producers could learn from today. Just seeing Dustin Hoffman and all his fear, coupled with Laurence Olivier's cold, expressionless look and how he just nonchalantly went through the motions of washing his hands and laying out his tools, was enough to strike fear in my heart. There was no “scene-setting” orchestral score, Olivier didn't cackle like a madman, there wasn't all this blood splattering everywhere, and, I think best of all, no one explained what each tool was for- in fact, the scene was relatively quiet.

 

You've described why many of us think the '70s were the last golden age of film...

[saber5055]

Great link, Forumfish. Thanks.