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WendyCR72

S16.E20: Daydream Believer

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A Chicago crime resembles a decade-old New York City case, so police from Chicago arrive and team up with the squad to track down a suspect they had to release earlier.

 

* The 2 was in the database title, probably as part 2 of the crossover. However, TV Guide has this episode on at 10:00 p.m. with Chicago P.D. airing at 9:00 p.m. - before SVU. So they are switching time slots for the week, for whatever reason.

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* The 2 was in the database title, probably as part 2 of the crossover. However, TV Guide has this episode on at 10:00 p.m. with Chicago P.D. airing at 9:00 p.m. - before SVU. So they are switching time slots for the week, for whatever reason.

I see the time change now, but both nbc.com/law-and-order-special-victims-unit and tvschedule.zap2it.com/tv/law-and-order-special-victims-unit-daydream-believer/EP003169780404?aid=tvschedule are showing this on the 29th, not tomorrow, the 22nd.

And, sorry, you may have to click around a bit on those landing pages due to scripts designed to give visitors fresh views with each visit.

Edited by shapeshifter

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This episode was not very good. I hate crossover week. There was too much Chicago P.D. and not enough of the SVU cast.

Also, that guy who played Yates looks so similar to John Ritter.

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I don't mind crossovers, as much as they seem to be unpopular around here. It doesn't happen that often, and it's not like it's very hard to figure out what's going on if you didn't catch a different episode.

 

I really liked Nadia on Chicago PD, so I guess having her killed off succeeded in getting me emotionally invested in the case. But at the same time, there's no other way to put it: she was fridged. And while this instance was well done as far as it goes, female characters getting killed in order to motivate others is happening way too often on TV shows this season. It just smacks of laziness and lack of creativity.

 

That all being said, the way Barba got the perp to entrap himself in the trial was pretty brilliant. For those used to seeing Dallas Roberts on his other shows where he appears sweet and harmless, this was quite a turnaround.

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Also, that guy who played Yates looks so similar to John Ritter.

This is exactly what I came to say!!!  The similarity was eerie and made me think of Ritter's actual SVU episode.  The actor did an excellent job of making me recoil from the screen, so kudos to him.

 

Courtroom scenes were the best part -- Barba's refusal to object, plus Warner and the judge exchanging a WTF look, were tied as great (grimly funny) moments.  I felt bad for Warner having to field that guy's psycho crap.  

 

Second best part was seeing that Jesse Spencer seems to have aged well since I last saw him on House.

 

The crossover stuff is sort of meh to me generally, but I actually really like the chemistry between Benson and Voigt.  Not in a shipper sense, at all, but in a professional-grown-ups sense.  

Edited by Malbec

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Yates was Willim Lewis V.2.

Even though I'm a Benson/Barba fan, Benson and Voight have some nice chemistry.

ETA: I also liked Benson's call to Lindsay before Lindsay met Yates. It was subtle in a way this show doesn't do much anymore.

Edited by WineCheeseChocolat
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I also wished there was more Carisi. I waited two weeks to only see little snippets of him :(

I watch Chicago P.D. and Fire, but the storylines are sometimes a stretch whenever they do it.

I wasn't really invested in the Nadia character. She was more of a background character to me. But, it will be interesting to see how Trudy will deal with her death.

This is exactly what I came to say!!! The similarity was eerie and made me think of Ritter's actual SVU episode. The actor did an excellent job of making me recoil from the screen, so kudos to him.

Courtroom scenes were the best part -- Barba's refusal to object, plus Warner and the judge exchanging a WTF look, were tied as great (grimly funny) moments. I felt bad for Warner having to field that guy's psycho crap.

Second best part was seeing that Jesse Spencer seems to have aged well since I last saw him on House.

The crossover stuff is sort of meh to me generally, but I actually really like the chemistry between Benson and Voigt. Not in a shipper sense, at all, but in a professional-grown-ups sense.

I think Jesses Spencer looks better on Chicago Fire than he did on House. He is extremely good looking.

Yates was Willim Lewis V.2.

Even though I'm a Benson/Barba fan, Benson and Voight have some nice chemistry.

I also like Voight and Benson'ss chemistry. She kind of balances him out a little and he doesn't seem so angry all the time.

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Only caught the last few moments.

I was just like Warner, the Judge and Jurors, WTF ?

He was bout ready to unzip, pull it out and start beating off in open court.

Yikes!

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Yates was Willim Lewis V.2.

 

 

Yes, I shuddered when Yates wanted to represent himself.  Call it PLSD (Post Lewis Stress Disorder).  But really, this episode was how William Lewis' trial should have gone, because it's not like he hid the crazy much more than Yates did.  Ugh, the Lewis episodes.  How I hate them.

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Only caught the last few moments.

I was just like Warner, the Judge and Jurors, WTF ?

He was bout ready to unzip, pull it out and start beating off in open court.

Yikes!

 

Opposite for me. I saw everything but the last minute >_<. Thanks mom for accidentally turning the channel lol. So now onto re watching it via On Demand.

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I happened to be free and glance at the time right when the first half began, so I decided: WTH, I'll turn it on for a bit. But when I saw Dallas Roberts, it was not quite possible to turn it off. And then when we got both Dallas Roberts and Raul Esparza on screen for whole scenes (plural) together doing the courtroom drama do-se-do...let's just say plot holes be damned.* They were totally doing the evil twin thing. And I bet they are both too good of actors to have not done it all in one take, but at least later I like to imagine them having a shared chuckle about Barba's line read of "I'm fine" when the incredulous judge asked if he wanted to object. Kudos to the writers for not actually having anyone say out loud that Barba gave Yates enough rope to hang himself.

*I guess we can also give the cinematographers/camera jockeys a little creative license leeway for not having Nadia burned since she did totally look like a winning ANTM in the body bag.

So I guess switching the time slots was a ploy to get viewers to start tuning into the show they weren't watching. Has this been done before? I wonder how effective it is.

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I really liked Nadia on Chicago PD, so I guess having her killed off succeeded in getting me emotionally invested in the case. But at the same time, there's no other way to put it: she was fridged. And while this instance was well done as far as it goes, female characters getting killed in order to motivate others is happening way too often on TV shows this season. It just smacks of laziness and lack of creativity.

I do agree it was lazy, but that said... is it actually fridging if a female character is killed to upset another female character? The definition I always heard was a woman being killed solely to upset a MALE character. Is my definition too narrow?

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So Noah has recovered from the measles enought Benson can jet off to Chicago at the drop of a hat?

 

Dallas Roberts - I whole-heartely concur on the guest Emmy. Rack it up.

 

Raoul Esparza makes me so tingly. They can't let him sing - just ONCE?? can't they all go to a karaoke bar one night?

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So, I watched the whole darn thing, and the first thing is, NBC did not coerce me into watching Chicago anything on a regular basis by engineering this forced crossover.  But I have to say, if I were a Chicago P.D. fan, I would be super-mad that they sacrificed someone who was apparently a sympathetic, developed recurring character just in order to justify this stupid gimmick.  That's just mean, to the fans and to the actor.  It's not like I, who watches SVU but not the Chicago shows, could have cared less about the poor girl, and for the fans of Chicago P.D., I imagine it felt very cheap, manipulative and disrespectful.

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So Noah has recovered from the measles enought Benson can jet off to Chicago at the drop of a hat?

?

I was thinking how does a NYPD Sergeant have the power to authorize the flying to Chicago for three people on a ten year old cold case?
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The Good:

Dallas Roberts. I have to agree with everyone talking Emmy.

Barba awesomeness.

Voight and Benson had good chemistry together.

The acting was good all around actually.

 

The Bad:

It just seemed kinda flat for some reason. Maybe my lack of interest in the Chicago franchise.

 

Overall what I found most interesting was how this was sort of Lewis 2.0 with a better actor and better writing. And a better ending too. I guess these crossovers must work because they keep doing them, but they've never made me more interested in the other shows. It just makes me miss the HLOTS/Mothership crossovers

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Shallow: I didn't like Warner's hair. I love her dark curls.

I don't watch Chicago PD so I wasn't invested in the character's death, but the courtroom scenes were awesome. There was one red-head juror who looked like "The fuck is this shit?" when Yates was doing his pre-orgasmic questioning. She was my favorite.

Edited by Empress1
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When I saw the promos for the episode, I figured they were letting Dallas Roberts play the same creep. Also, In one of life's funny coincidences, the episode with Dallas Roberts, Amanda Plummer and Mary Stuart Masterson was played on the local CBS affiliate in NY at 8pm last night.

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The Bad:

It just seemed kinda flat for some reason. Maybe my lack of interest in the Chicago franchise.

 

Overall what I found most interesting was how this was sort of Lewis 2.0 with a better actor and better writing. And a better ending too. I guess these crossovers must work because they keep doing them, but they've never made me more interested in the other shows. It just makes me miss the HLOTS/Mothership crossovers

Well the promo monkey promised Andre Braugher and Dan Florek next week. I know everybody plays multiple parts in the L&O verse but that had better be Frank Pembleton

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Yes, I shuddered when Yates wanted to represent himself.  Call it PLSD (Post Lewis Stress Disorder).  But really, this episode was how William Lewis' trial should have gone, because it's not like he hid the crazy much more than Yates did.  Ugh, the Lewis episodes.  How I hate them.

 

 

My sentiments exactly.  I cheered when Barba tricked Yates into exposing himself by showing the crime scene pictures, then I wondered why he couldn't have done that with Lewis.  Weren't there any crime scene pictures?  Or he could have had the witnesses go into more detail about the murderers...whatever.

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Barba is the man, wow!

 

When the judge was practically pleading with Barba to object, and Barba was like "No, I'm fine.", I half expected the other lawyer to instead object. Heh!

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Well the promo monkey promised Andre Braugher and Dan Florek next week. I know everybody plays multiple parts in the L&O verse but that had better be Frank Pembleton

Unfortunately, he'll probably be playing Bayard Ellis, the lawyer character he's played while on SVU. 

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I do agree it was lazy, but that said... is it actually fridging if a female character is killed to upset another female character? The definition I always heard was a woman being killed solely to upset a MALE character. Is my definition too narrow?

 

The term originated a few years ago in response to the rather disturbing tendency of comic books to kill off the hero's love interest in order to motivate him to hate the villain. So you are historically correct. However, TVTropes takes a more expansive definition which includes both genders. The criteria is that the victim is killed in an especially gruesome manner in order to disturb, anguish, or motivate someone else. To be sure, it is still usually a woman getting killed to motivate a man, but it doesn't have to be. As a character who was otherwise rootable (or at least unobjectionable) and who was just getting started on a potentially interesting storyline of her own before she was killed, Nadia definitely fits the bill.

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I thought it was good. He did resemble John Ritter (although JR was better looking in his younger years). I felt there were similarities to the Ted Bundy case. He also murdered pretty brunettes, had a girlfriend who had no idea, and also went to law school (I know this perp didn't but he was good at acting as an attorney).

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I didn't like that much, because it was three hours resulting in such a downer. My favourite parts actually occurred on "Chicago Fire" (the new firewoman's charm and her rescuing the innocent guy with the overloaded power strip from self-blaming suicide) and "Chicago PD" (Yates's creepy, evocative speech about the Number Of Rats). I don't regularly watch either one, nor will I, but I enjoyed those. Good development of the case and identification of the perp, but by the time we got back here, Yates was just being too successful in torturing and killing too many women, and it bummed me out majorly. I didn't know Nadia was a regular on "Chicago PD", I hoped she was so that she'd be rescued, and when she got killed I assumed she wasn't, but now I hear she was after all; even worse!

HOWEVER, you guys here are making me think more highly of Part Three on SVU, so I'll take another look at it. Yes, the horrid name of William Lewis flashed through my mind too, and quite right this is how it should have gone with him.

There was a period of some weeks during the run of "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine", many years ago, when it seemed as if a sympathetic guest star was being killed off every week just so the regular characters could get in touch with their feelings. Is that fridging, or does it have to be a regular? Guest fridging, maybe.

 

But most important: on the "Chicago PD" or "Fire" (forget which) part they showed a flashback which had a ten-years-younger Olivia with the body of a rape-and-murder victim with green-painted nails. I have watched every episode of SVU, but I don't remember: was this an actual unsolved case on the show ten years ago, or did they alter some past footage to give us our flashback? If it was an episode, how did they justify not catching the guy back then?

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Unfortunately, he'll probably be playing Bayard Ellis, the lawyer character he's played while on SVU. 

I guess that means I don't make a special effort. After a few years of SVU I went back to classic L&O. Even though I rarely watch PD and SVU and never Fire the NBC cinematic Chicagoverse got me to watch both times.

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I didn't hate the episode, but it made for a long night having to watch Chicago PD since I normally don't watch the show.  That defendant was very creepy.  When he was representing himself and he started making allegations against Nadia, I was beginning to wonder if he was actually going to get away with murder.  

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I thought it was good. He did resemble John Ritter (although JR was better looking in his younger years). I felt there were similarities to the Ted Bundy case. He also murdered pretty brunettes, had a girlfriend who had no idea, and also went to law school (I know this perp didn't but he was good at acting as an attorney).

Bundy also used the faking a broken arm scam. Barba was awesome! He gave the creep enough rope to hang himself.

Edited by LittleIggy

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Well the promo monkey promised Andre Braugher and Dan Florek next week. I know everybody plays multiple parts in the L&O verse but that had better be Frank Pembleton

 

 

Unfortunately, he'll probably be playing Bayard Ellis, the lawyer character he's played while on SVU.

 

True. Although if they give us a surprise twist and he's playing Captain Holt from Brooklyn Nine Nine I will officially declare this the best season of SVU ever. Despite the flaws. Even if the plot of the finale involves Liv being too busy with a Noah health emergency to stop William Lewis in a basketball.

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I don't know- it was just kind of boring. I never watch Chicago Fire (and the crossover episode did nothing to interest me in watching it further), occasionally watch PD, and only watch SVU for Raul Esparza. Unfortunately both Chicago shows have so many characters they all were shortchanged at the expense of SVU. Too much Benson and Voight. Why were Amaro and Finn even in Chicago? They added nothing. All the characters I like on CPD (Olinsky, Platt, the tech guy) were relegated to the background, and I found my mind wandering until it came to the trial. Barba has been on a roll in court lately, so I hope we're not gearing up for a major loss in the season finale. (BTW, I missed some Barba/Carisi ribbing!)

Dallas Roberts was also on the original L & O playing a lawyer who represented himself. It's from the Lupo/Bernard years and it was an episode I always liked because Lupo was a cop studying to be a lawyer (similar to Carisi) and he saved DA Cutter (who was condescending to him like Barba is to Carisi) after Roberts' character was going to shoot him after he was found guilty. The episode was called "By Perjury"

They never did explain the green nail polish. I would have preferred that scene to the one with Voight and Yates in the cell.

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Dallas Roberts was also on the original L & O playing a lawyer who represented himself.

I looked up his career on IMDB.  He seems to play a LOT of doctors!  And yes, he looks a lot like John Ritter (and also reminded me of John Ritter's creepy psychiatrist character.)

 

 

I don't watch Chicago PD so I wasn't invested in the character's death, but the courtroom scenes were awesome. There was one red-head juror who looked like "The fuck is this shit?" when Yates was doing his pre-orgasmic questioning. She was my favorite.

We don't watch any of the Chicago shows either, so we didn't really know or care about the characters.   But yeah, the way Barba let him go on & on, reliving the scene with the pictures.....Wild Boar & I just kept looking at each other & looking at his pants, trying to see if he was holding the photos as if hiding a hard-on!  Ewwwwwwww!

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...They never did explain the green nail polish. I would have preferred that scene to the one with Voight and Yates in the cell.

Maybe, but I was okay with the cell scene. They never explained why he started killing again either. Or why he stopped burning them--except for throwing out the term "decompensating," whatever that means vis a vis serial killers. During questioning, the CPD lady asked him why 5'5" brunettes; was it his mother or his ex wife? We never got an answer, but I don't think we needed one for this episode.

Is there any chance that the conviction could be overturned on a technicality? Maybe Dallas Roberts will do another episode if the show gets renewed.

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I don't think that Yates stopped killing, there were quite a few bodies in New Orleans and around Duke that they think he did.

 

 

Yates made some of the Criminal Minds unsubs look like boy scouts. He was as scary as Ted Bundy,

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Is there any chance that the conviction could be overturned on a technicality? Maybe Dallas Roberts will do another episode if the show gets renewed.

 

Do you mean for the 2016-2017 season? Because, if I recall correctly, the Chicago franchise shows as well as SVU have been renewed for next season for a few months now. NBC gave them early renewal in either February or March or so.

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Sorry if this has been discussed already, I am so confused, what is the order that these three shows should have been watched? I knew there was a crossover, I watched Chicago Fire first then svu (which I normally watch), I did not realize it was a three part crossover so I have had to watch Chicago Pd on demand. I am thinking the Chicago pd should have been the 2nd part, am I wrong? Sorry I am so confused lol.

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Sorry if this has been discussed already, I am so confused, what is the order that these three shows should have been watched? I knew there was a crossover, I watched Chicago Fire first then svu (which I normally watch), I did not realize it was a three part crossover so I have had to watch Chicago Pd on demand. I am thinking the Chicago pd should have been the 2nd part, am I wrong? Sorry I am so confused lol.

It goes Chicago Fire, Chicago P.D., SVU.

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Well I'm not a fan of the crossovers as I don't watch Fire (since they killed off Shay, stupid writers!) & the pilot of PD was just so bad I never got in to that one either, & I agree with some posts I've read on other forums that the SVU cast gueststared in their own show, but despite all that it was an intense 2 hours (I did watch PD, refused Fire though because reasons).

Dallas Roberts was outstanding. I've never seen him do anything bad though.

The courtscenes were the highlight for me. Great.

 

If I were a fan of PD and/or Nadia though I would be livid. That was brutal. I knew the Fire writers were bad (Shay #1 reason, and I read the article over at EW about their reasoning to releasing Barnett/Mills from the show, another actor not wanting to leave the show but apparently the writes didn't see any romantic pairings for him so they wrote him off, like WTF are you thinking? He can put out the important kind of fires still and/or save ppl, get a grip writers) and now I'm doubting the PD writers, I did in the pilot as well as the blonde one was a goner from scene one but I thought they had gotten better as they seem to have a large fan base. On a bright note this makes me value the SVU writers a bit, something I haven't done for this entire season.

 

Can't wait to see Cragen next episode!! But then it's only an episode missing Kelli (valid reason to skip it in my book) left & a finale that seems to be all Benoah drama (& someone on a gurney, not mentioning names because of *spoilers*) so there's not much to look forward too. I really hope S17 will be worth watching as this season has been a real letdown for me :(

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This episode was an improvement on last episode but I hated that one so much it that anything would have better. 

 

I don't follow Chicago PD at all so I was lost with the characters and their story. Also I didn't want to follow them any longer to I hope their's no crossovers in S17 (but I doubt it). Nadia was totally fridged and also made the similarities to the Lewis plot line way too strong for my liking. Yates was totally William Lewis 1000 but Dallas Roberts was good in the role. There wasn't enough SVU in this they were guest stars in their own TV show. 

 

Have they run out of headlines to rip from that they turned to Ted Bundy for inspiration?

Edited by Bananna

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Thank you!

You're welcome :)

Well I'm not a fan of the crossovers as I don't watch Fire (since they killed off Shay, stupid writers!) & the pilot of PD was just so bad I never got in to that one either, & I agree with some posts I've read on other forums that the SVU cast gueststared in their own show, but despite all that it was an intense 2 hours (I did watch PD, refused Fire though because reasons).

Dallas Roberts was outstanding. I've never seen him do anything bad though.

The courtscenes were the highlight for me. Great.

 

If I were a fan of PD and/or Nadia though I would be livid. That was brutal. I knew the Fire writers were bad (Shay #1 reason, and I read the article over at EW about their reasoning to releasing Barnett/Mills from the show, another actor not wanting to leave the show but apparently the writes didn't see any romantic pairings for him so they wrote him off, like WTF are you thinking? He can put out the important kind of fires still and/or save ppl, get a grip writers) and now I'm doubting the PD writers, I did in the pilot as well as the blonde one was a goner from scene one but I thought they had gotten better as they seem to have a large fan base. On a bright note this makes me value the SVU writers a bit, something I haven't done for this entire season.

 

Can't wait to see Cragen next episode!! But then it's only an episode missing Kelli (valid reason to skip it in my book) left & a finale that seems to be all Benoah drama (& someone on a gurney, not mentioning names because of *spoilers*) so there's not much to look forward too. I really hope S17 will be worth watching as this season has been a real letdown for me :(

That seriously was the reasoning for letting Mills go? Granted, I don't like his character, but that is the stupidest reason.

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Do you mean for the 2016-2017 season? Because, if I recall correctly, the Chicago franchise shows as well as SVU have been renewed for next season for a few months now. NBC gave them early renewal in either February or March or so.

Oops. I missed that. Well, then I'm going to assume they do hope to get Dallas Roberts to reprise the role next year. He could try to overturn on a technicality or have some unique, useful information that the SVU needs. Maybe he'll go on meds for schizophrenia and try to get released to a psychiatric facility or even into society.

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The criteria is that the victim is killed in an especially gruesome manner in order to disturb, anguish, or motivate someone else.

 

I'm not following. If the victim had just been shot in the head with a single bullet, wouldn't that be equally motivating?

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I was kinda bored through the build up parts, I admit, but man, what a fittingly creepy perp. And of course finally a court room ending to an episode. 

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@Suzy123 - yes it was in an article over at Entertainment Weekly posted April 22th. Here's a quote from it;

 

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: What came with the decision to write Mills off the show? Had you exhausted his storylines, or was it Barnett’s decision to leave?
MATT OLMSTEAD: It came from the former. We definitely had given him a lot of storylines. It felt like the character had really completed a whole journey. We’re always looking for an opportunity to stay fresh, to not get stagnant and be ambitious. So we, as we oftentimes do, looked at the board to see what the next storyline is for characters and what the next pairing is. We realized that also on the show, as in a firehouse, there are so many guys and two women on the show, that we [had] exhausted all the permutations of romantic entanglements—Mills had dated Dawson (Monica Raymund). It was a very difficult decision to make, and it wasn’t based on anything other than wanting to have the opportunity to have some drama and emotion from a character leaving in a different way than Shay (Lauren German)—left and to bring in some new lifeblood in a different character.

I was really spiteful after they killed off Shay and didn't restrain myself from airing my opinion of the writers but then decided to just stay clear of the show to respect the fans. This I couldn't keep from commenting on though. "The next pairing" and "romantic entaglements" had me fuming. He can put out fires & save lives w/o a pairing or romantic entaglement. Geesh. To write off a character/actor, like in the case of Lauren German, who doesn't want to leave the show is just stupid.

 

I read another article related to the crossover (sorry can't remember where) that quoted Warren saying he didn't like to kill off characters so I'll make him eat that if he does kill off someone in the finale. I don't think he will though. Getting shot can work as a wake-up call to what is important in life so it can make for lifechanging decisions w/o the character having to die. I don't think I could handle one of our own dying :(

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True. Although if they give us a surprise twist and he's playing Captain Holt from Brooklyn Nine Nine I will officially declare this the best season of SVU ever. Despite the flaws. Even if the plot of the finale involves Liv being too busy with a Noah health emergency to stop William Lewis in a basketball.

If that happened it would be the greatest thing i would have ever seen. Even if they didn't actually mention him by name just made it obvious who it was. Like he shows up with a bunch of other captains, gets a couple of hilarious lines and they mention he is from brooklyn. That would be even better than Pembleton showing up.

I liked this one though, nice that they spent a decent amount of time in court.

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