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The Judges: Oh, Consistency, Where Art Thou?


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I think I'll miss Len a lot. The other three annoy me to no end most of the time and most of the time, I find Len to be correct. When the audience boos him, it's usually cause he's right but he is being mean to a favorite or something.

 

I'd really like to see how the pros and the audience would handle someone like Len's UK colleague Craig Revel Horwood, Australia's Todd McKenney, or Germany's Joaquim Llambi. When it comes to critiquing the dances on their respective versions, all three gentlemen make Len look like Mother Teresa in comparison.

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Crikey! Legaleagle, how many iterations of the show to you watch?!

 

Not as many as I used to.  I just don't have the time to keep up with them all anymore (and Germany and Austria's versions suck donkey balls these days), so I mainly stick with the US, the UK, and Australia (although I did recently watch the New Zealand version and loved it).  At one time, I followed the US, the UK, Poland, Germany, Austria, Australia, the Netherlands (before it went to hell in its final season -- even one of the former pros and one of the sitting judges both hated it!), Belgium, and Italy.  I would also follow the French and Swedish versions, but I think those are pretty much geoblocked now for anyone not living in those countries.  I may try Italy's again now that I have a computer that is compatible with Microsoft Silverlight.

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Wow, that's a horrible song (reminds me of Spinal Tap's Jazz Odyssey).  Carrie Ann is a pretty talented pole dancer and is rather beautiful there for all the shorn hair.   No lifts.

Edited by crowceilidh
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Between 10 & 10:30 Eastern, they showed a video from Len. He said he'd been watching this season, & he *will* be back on DWTS for the season coming up this Spring (Tom Tweeted the premiere date earlier--if I remember right, it's either March 21 or 23).

Edited by BW Manilowe
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Between 10 & 10:30 Eastern, they showed a video from Len. He said he'd been watching this season, & he *will* be back on DWTS for the season coming up this Spring (Tom Tweeted the premiere date earlier--if I remember right, it's either March 21 or 23.

I'm glad that Len will be back next year. I missed him. Plus, out of all of the judges (even though I like Bruno), Len's opinion is the one that I respect the most.

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Yay for the return of sanity to the judges' table! It will be great to have him back, although I do think Bruno gave some more nuanced than usual critiques in Len's absence.

Well, someone had to. All CA and Julieanne did was scream and squeal and at times, make up words sometimes. I think Bruno toned it down this season as much as he could tone himself down. But someone had to make sense somewhere.

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The man who calls some things fuddy duddy...the man who has his problems Maks...the man who is willing to stand down and throw up an 8 when the others will give 10s...

 

I am not American.  But this Thanksgiving, I am thankful that Len is coming back.  

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Thank heavens Len is returning. Can they please boot Julianne out of his chair?

I know, right? I've tried to give Julianne a chance as a judge, many if fact (because she does have the experience), but she's becoming a mini Carrie Ann.

Edited by giaNtsandYankees
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I know, right? I've tried to give Julianne a chance as a judge, many if fact (because she does have the experience), but she's becoming a mimi Carrie Ann.

 

I wonder if the powers-that-be neutered her (much like American Idol did to Harry Connick Jr.)  -  at the beginning Julianne gave solid, strong, helpful critiques in terms that the celebrity (and by extension the viewing audience) could understand and then she went to crazy land.

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If we are voting to boot someone, I vote we boot Carrie Anne and let Julianne slide over to her seat. They are both fairly insufferable but at least Julianne knows what she is talking about when she opts to provide real criticism. Plus I think sitting next to Len made her up her game and offer more constructive criticism rather than just screeching nonsense. I'd give her another shot and sent Carrie Ann away.

Producers, are you listening? Let us vote Survivor style.

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I don't think Len is all that consistent - I seem to recall him jumping on this bandwagon or that.  He sometimes proffers useful advice and sometimes goes against the herd (esp on Derek) but as I believe that is all manipulative bs guided by tptb too, I'm not that impressed with it.  Even with all that make-up on though, he's a lot easier to look at and listen to then the other 3.  Back before somebody told Bruno to stand up and make ridiculous postures, Bruno wasn't all that bad to look at and listen to, but I'd be happy if they made like SYTYCD and got rid of everyone but Len and start over fresh.

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I don't think Len is all that consistent - I seem to recall him jumping on this bandwagon or that.  He sometimes proffers useful advice and sometimes goes against the herd (esp on Derek) but as I believe that is all manipulative bs guided by tptb too, I'm not that impressed with it.  Even with all that make-up on though, he's a lot easier to look at and listen to then the other 3.  Back before somebody told Bruno to stand up and make ridiculous postures, Bruno wasn't all that bad to look at and listen to, but I'd be happy if they made like SYTYCD and got rid of everyone but Len and start over fresh.

Thank you. I don't just like this--I love it. Len has been less "Len" and very guided by the producers wishes ever since they've been fighting to be a "cooler" show. I'd love if they built a panel around more proper, serious minded judges like him. It'd probably be much more engaging but producers are always underestimating viewers as total idiots who "won't get it."

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It'd probably be much more engaging but producers are always underestimating viewers as total idiots who "won't get it."

I think the producers took the angle that the vast majority don't care about ballroom dancing so let's not bother with a competition, let's play to the "who is boinking who on the show", that gets more ratings.

 

So what if Americans are idiots, they want their reality tv, dancing just gets in the way.

 

Rules? who cares? It's Len's fault. Len wanted consistency for too long, Derek just had to laugh in his face during the All Star season because he could do things with a gymnast that weren't hampered by pesky rules, it doesn't matter if she can actually do the dance steps. She gave the audience a "wow"  Did you see how high she could jump off a trampoline? 

 

The result is Len doesn't care either. The years of Len being consistent and helpful in giving contestants notes about their dancing has gone in the garbage, because it doesn't pay to be correct.

 

For Season 21 it's come down to one thing that is consistent. You can be sure that bullshit gossip about each contestant is more important than dance routines.  Alex can be complete ass with his temper tantrums, but let's pretend he has a crush on Emma so he'll get more votes.  Let's see if we can milk the dead dad long enough so Bindi will actually fake cry on cue.  And Nick doesn't care if everyone knows the gender of his unborn child, so let's make a segment about it,  Anything to do with dancing?  Nope. And that's the way Americans like it.  It's just not the way I like it. I prefer if Len would come back and be consistent, as unpopular as that is, it at least gives the contestants something other than fake romances and fake crying to work on.

Edited by Andie1
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I found immense satisfaction in the Finale that Derek's QS choreo, which adhered to standard as anything in years, along with a distinctly toned-down freestyle won the day.  Whether he heard Len's voice in his head or not, he followed his edicts very well.  Then he raised the MBT.  

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This was the worst season for consistency because nobody did anything remotely akin to proper ballroom. The show went roughshod over the rules and didn't care.  The 17 year old blubber puddle was never corrected for footwork, extension, posture, shoulders, and you can always drive a truck between partners in any of Derek's ballroom, that's never ever been correct or corrected. Len has told the guy for years, and he still ignores it why? Too fucking hard to do it properly. Also that was a hella slow QS tempo and they just had to put other dancers in, for yet another boring Broadway, instead of proper QS. So even if the judges "mentioned" the errors during the season, they sure were not corrected by the finale, so what the hell? Why even bother to mention them if they aren't going to make an effort? 
It's not too hard to see cleaner, more intricate and faster Quicksteps on the show without joining the extraneous dancers doing a kick line or other such bullshit. One of the best ever was Louis and Sabrina, close contra body contact, correct dance position, incredibly intricate dance steps. That is QS, not some unsatisfying hybird Derek is trying to sell. I get why he does it, little miss seaworld can't do what Sabrina did, but covering up real dance with broadway cliches is just a cop out.  As far as freestyles being toned down, it's been done, and better last season. Moreover, if Derek wasn't so hell bent on turning ballroom dancing into a circus, then when it was time for a freestyle it would mean something like it used to.  And make no mistake, it's Derek Hough that turned this show into what it is now. It was the SAME season that we got a great QS  from Louis, and a circus act from Derek, who went with the circus act even when offered to change it and Laugh at the old guy in the same breath. So without Len when he at least tried to appeal to ballroom purists, it's now a shallow piece of dung that doesn't know what it wants to be.  At least the show went last season with a more ballroom dance approach for the winner, and for me it was much better choice because we know the winner learned to dance ballroom and latin through a lot of repetition, and actually built on her basic knowledge of it when she headlined in Chicago. It didn't hurt that she was a lover of Ballroom dancing and wanted to learn to do it properly. The judges didnt give her the highest marks, but she was the best student.  

Edited by Andie1
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I thought the production value of Grease Live was extremely high and it was overall really well done.  It's also got great ratings and is getting pretty good reviews.  I thought Julianne was just ok, but she definitely looked the part and was serviceable in the role.

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I thought the production value of Grease Live was extremely high and it was overall really well done.  It's also got great ratings and is getting pretty good reviews.  I thought Julianne was just ok, but she definitely looked the part and was serviceable in the role.

 

It's def getting a lot of praise for the production value, and to tie that back to DWTS, I find that interesting as they share a director. It was stage directed by the director of current smash hit Hamilton - and the camera direction was the DWTS director for 20 seasons. You can definitely tell he brought that experience to filming the big dance numbers. 

 

In terms of Julianne - mostly saw reviews that she was fine ("serviceable" and "did her job" are not the greatest reviews, but they're not terrible,) and did a good job with the vocals on her solo despite mic problems. A few pans for being boring and having no personality, but I want to know from those people what version of Grease they've ever seen where Sandy has any sort of personality. (I mostly agree with the AV Club review - some good, some bad, but given that Grease is sort of shitty source material anyway, they did a decent job with it.)

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It's def getting a lot of praise for the production value, and to tie that back to DWTS, I find that interesting as they share a director. It was stage directed by the director of current smash hit Hamilton - and the camera direction was the DWTS director for 20 seasons. You can definitely tell he brought that experience to filming the big dance numbers. 

 

In terms of Julianne - mostly saw reviews that she was fine ("serviceable" and "did her job" are not the greatest reviews, but they're not terrible,) and did a good job with the vocals on her solo despite mic problems. A few pans for being boring and having no personality, but I want to know from those people what version of Grease they've ever seen where Sandy has any sort of personality. (I mostly agree with the AV Club review - some good, some bad, but given that Grease is sort of shitty source material anyway, they did a decent job with it.)

I pretty much agree with you. Julianne's acting was okay her singing was barely there at times and of course she nailed the dancing.

However I do think she brought no personality to the role. ONJ had an innocent sexiness in the role of Sandy that Julianne did even come close to. I have always thought Whitney has exactly that trait of innocent sexiness that would have made her a better choice for the role.

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I thought Julianne was cute in the role. She needed some chemistry with Danny. The guys were bad. Rizzo and the Pink Ladies were good. The over production was my favorite of the "live" musical trend.

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Definitely on the better side of the recent live musicals. I thoroughly enjoyed Jordan Fischer as Doody (I was not expecting that from a rather minor character!) and Vanessa Hudgens as Rizzo. Did not enjoy the having the live audience visible (but it worked well enough) or the song created for Carly Rae Jepsen's Frenchie. Some of the costume changes were amazing, and I feel like they pulled the production off very well (aside from the Hand Jive/Hopelessly Devoted audio snafu).

 

I'm with the majority: Julianne as Sandy was fine, but Sandy isn't really all that interesting of a character to begin with. That's not really Julianne's fault.

 

I did forget (or maybe blocked out; it's been awhile since I've seen Grease) how risque some of it is, especially for primetime network TV. I wasn't personally offended, but I was surprised at some of the lines the censors let past. Based on America and its prudishness regarding sex, I'm mostly surprised it wasn't a bigger topic of outrage and/or a victim of editing.

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Woo-hoo! Can she take her brother with her?

 

Now that would be awesome. This show has been lame for a while, but no more Houghs would be a step in the right direction. Now bring back Artem and I'll be doing a happy dance!

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So chuffed that Julianne is out (for the season at least).  I'd be happy never to see her again in my life.  

 

 And I thought Grease Live was unwatchable.  I didn't get far enough in to have an opinion on Julianne's abilities, but that guy who was playing Danny was a charisma-free zone and that role requires a certain sexiness, commitment and chutzpah.  It was like watching the dressed up audience mime/act out Rocky Horror rather than watching the movie. Gah.  Also I never want to watch Carlos PV again, nevermind in the role of Kenickie which the late lamented Jeff Conaway did so well that he almost stole my heart away from Danny Zuko.  Carlos still gives me the creeps.

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What I did like about Julianne is that she frequently would offer a compliment on what the dancer did well before she'd critique what they did wrong instead of just criticizing them straight away.

 

I won't miss her but I wouldn't have minded her being on again, either, except that 4 judges is too many. I like Len so I'm glad he's back.

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I'd rather ditch Carrie Ann who provides the very least in actual useful critiques but I'm just glad we won't have four judges. Last time we had that it was way too much talking. The critique shouldn't take more time than the actual dance and with some of those early short dances, that was happening.

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It seemed to me that Len's energy/enthusiasm for the premiere was the least I have ever experienced.  He seemed entirely over everything as he rarely demonstrated the slightest interest in being there.  There was certainly enough talent for him to sense genuine potential.  Yet, almost all received simple platitudes.

Maybe it was just me.  I know I was over most of them a very few seconds into performance.

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15 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

It seemed to me that Len's energy/enthusiasm for the premiere was the least I have ever experienced.  He seemed entirely over everything as he rarely demonstrated the slightest interest in being there.  There was certainly enough talent for him to sense genuine potential.  Yet, almost all received simple platitudes.

Maybe it was just me.  I know I was over most of them a very few seconds into performance.

Most of the time the judges just blather. I spend a lot of time muttering, "Shut up and critique the dance." Sometimes that blathering turns into screeching or longwinded, nonsensical rhapsodizing. Also, Len has yet to learn how to defend his own opinion without wasting everyone's time arguing that he has a right to his opinion. Overall, the judges are probably nice people, but if I were trapped on that panel, I'd want to smack someone. If Len seems unenthused, I don't think it's that the celebs' potential isn't there this time, but that this is no longer new or exciting.

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1 hour ago, LizDC said:

Yay!  Four is too many. And Julianne is annoying.

Double plus YAY!  I wouldn't mind seeing Julianne back as a pro, but four judges is too many and Julianne's personality bugs me.  Three judges is about the right number, but I also wouldn't be sad if they replaced Carrie Ann with someone more articulate and less flaily.

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22 minutes ago, SnarkyTart said:

Double plus YAY!  I wouldn't mind seeing Julianne back as a pro, but four judges is too many and Julianne's personality bugs me.  Three judges is about the right number, but I also wouldn't be sad if they replaced Carrie Ann with someone more articulate and less flaily.

Carrie Ann just broke off her engagement, so I'm expecting even more flailing and slobbering over the male contestants. 

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