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Season 2 Speculation Thread: Next To Get An Ass Whooping? New Foes? Discuss!


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Talk about what you think will happen in the recently-announced S2, coming next year to a Roku, Apple TV, Chromecast, or computer near you!

 

What or Who do you want to see next?

 

From reports I have read, Cox, D'Onofrio, Woll, etc. are all set to return, so new folks will join the existing cast of characters.

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So I'll start with the inane. Who should be Matt's next girlfriend? Karen is a front runner now but we also know that Electra supposedly is an ex, so that gives her an advantage, no? More seriously though, if Karen gets an arc as the girlfriend, I suppose that'll mean Electra's appearance will be delayed to a season 3. Also, the timing of season 2 will affect the storyline, if it lands next year (please Netflix let it be so) then Electra can delay an appearance until Defenders, maybe a little earlier?

Either way, I'm sure Bull's Eye is the next villain.

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Yeah I'm pretty sure they're taking it slow with Matt/Karen. So Electra can show up as soon as possible. (I haven't seen the movies, but the character sounds pretty awesome from what I've heard about her).

 

Can someone tell more about Bullseye? Is he a sniper, like, I dunno, Deadshot?

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Can someone tell more about Bullseye? Is he a sniper, like, I dunno, Deadshot?

Kind of, but he's more prone to use...well, anything, as opposed to just guns.  He is an excellent marksman, but that's with just about anything.  He's also a good hand-to-hand fighter.

 

One of the few things that the Affleck movie got right was Bullseye.

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I have no feelings about Electra, but if they're going to continue to shortchange Claire or spread her out among several shows, then I would be interested in a new non-Karen love interest because I just don't feel it between Matt and Karen at all. They certainly don't have the chemistry RD and CC have.

 

Otherwise, being a non-comics person, I have no specific hopes for new foes or side characters. So my hopes are more general. I want them to improve the lighting in Season 2. I want Karen to learn about Matt early on because there's literally no reason not to tell her, and it's boring to watch the hero dodge the people in his life. I want the new staff to do a better job with the female characters. I want the new EPs to make it a priority to get RD to commit to being a regular, because I want Claire in every episode, and her role expanded (okay, I'll accept as few as ten episodes). 

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I want the new staff to do a better job with the female characters.

 

This. And also, tell Karen ASAP.

 

Don't really have any strong feelings about Claire and I don't care about her romance with Matt, however. But I think she's played by a strong actress and I look forward to seeing in her another show(s).

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I hoping they'll do a similar splitting the difference with Elektra's iconic death scene as the '90s Spider-Man cartoon did with transplanting Gwen Stacy's death onto Mary Jane: Matt only thinks she's dead while she actually goes underground, possibly even to her own show.

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Quite a few things that I'd love to see in S2, a lot of which were hinted at in S1:

 

1. Answers about Karen's backstory

2. More Claire (in all senses of "more" -- rowr)

3. More about the war Stick spoke of/more with the Hand

4. Foggy and Matt kicking ass in the courtroom

5. The trial of Wilson Fisk/Vanessa's stepping up as the "Queenpin"

6. A new reporter to emerge to take Ben's place

7. The scramble to fill the void left by Fisk being locked up by such traditional Marvel crime figures as Hammerhead, Jigsaw, etc.

8. Punisher

9. Bullseye

10. Melvin Potter emerge as Gladiator

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6. A new reporter to emerge to take Ben's place

 

Killing Ben helped explain Fisk's psyche but it was a mistake. All these Netflix series could use Ben, an established journalist who really understood the underworld. A new reporter would be nice but he'd need to have Ben gravitas for this work.

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My only real wish at this point in time is that the writers have more taste and class than Frank Miller did. Him reducing Karen Page to a heroin addict doing porn for drug money was just one of the many, many examples of the staggering issues he has with women. So please writers, do not follow his path.

 

As for Elektra, I've never felt any sort of connection to the character. Super badass female ninja wearing a dental floss costume is a bit too on the nose for my tastes. But if they get the casting right, she could be a good addition, in some fashion.

 

And one last thing? Stilt-Man. I need Stilt-Man.

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My only real wish at this point in time is that the writers have more taste and class than Frank Miller did. Him reducing Karen Page to a heroin addict doing porn for drug money was just one of the many, many examples of the staggering issues he has with women. So please writers, do not follow his path.

 

I am a novice to the comics. I came to this show because of being a fan of VDO's (Fisk) work, but the series is still terrific for someone not all too familiar.

 

But reading this about Karen, even if she bugged me by the end, was...disheartening, to put it mildly. Kind of makes me glad to be ignorant of the comics if stuff like that is the case. But at least now I get why people are so critical of Frank Miller. Sheesh.

 

So I, too, hope the show runners will deviate from that fuckery and refrain from the woman hating. The series doesn't need that crap to be interesting.

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Deborah Ann Woll told IGN that the show is more or less making that stuff Karen's PAST in this version.

 

The stilts were in the background of Potter's place, so he may well make an appearance.

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I am a novice to the comics. I came to this show because of being a fan of VDO's (Fisk) work, but the series is still terrific for someone not all too familiar.

 

But reading this about Karen, even if she bugged me by the end, was...disheartening, to put it mildly. Kind of makes me glad to be ignorant of the comics if stuff like that is the case. But at least now I get why people are so critical of Frank Miller. Sheesh.

 

So I, too, hope the show runners will deviate from that fuckery and refrain from the woman hating. The series doesn't need that crap to be interesting.

 

Oh yeah, you don't want to go around reading Frank Miller stories if you can avoid it, in my view. Such an overrated writer, who was perhaps necessary to help shake comic books out of the rut they were in and give them an edge again. But his stuff has really not aged well, and when you look at it with a more critical eye, the worrying, disconcerting trends run deep. Even The Dark Knight Returns and Sin City, his supposed masterpieces, really only feature women as prostitutes, strippers or victims. Occasionally they'll manage to be all three at once.

 

 

Deborah Ann Woll told IGN that the show is more or less making that stuff Karen's PAST in this version.

 

 

Well. That's... better? I'm not sure. Better if I know I don't have to worry about them pulling that sort of misogynistic crap, certainly. But waiting for the reveal of her past as a plot point? I'd rather not have that either. Hopefully they really tone it down to something like dabbling in softer drugs and a sex tape. They would seem to fit more with the Karen Page we've been presented with so far.

 

On a more positive note, I'd like to see season 2 really build on our intrepid trio of crusaders, and hopefully have Karen find out sooner rather than later that Matt is Daredevil. I think it would work well for this show if she actually figured it out herself. Karen's a smart cookie, and given just a few pieces, I think she could put it together.

 

I hope Marcie comes back as well. Because even though I'm not invested at all in the idea of Matt/Karen (not against it either. I just don't think their relationship needs to be about romance), I'd rather not see Foggy pining for Karen and getting jealous of her swoony feelings for Matt.

 

And because she's not been mentioned yet, how about a bit of Typhoid Mary? As a love interest, antagonist or mixture of both, that could be a dream role for some young actress.

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Even The Dark Knight Returns and Sin City, his supposed masterpieces, really only feature women as prostitutes, strippers or victims. Occasionally they'll manage to be all three at once.

 

Charming. Only, not so much.

 

Deborah Ann Woll told IGN that the show is more or less making that stuff Karen's PAST in this version.

 

Movies change stuff from books all the time. Past or not, I still see no reason for this. Is this truly the only way Karen can be seen as "dark"?

 

Sometimes, you'd never know it's 2015 and the 21st century.

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Definitely hoping they'll tone it down. Drugs, I can live with, but coupled with porn and probably something else... I dunno, feels too gratutious for me and not really compatible with s1 Karen.

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Frank Miller's Daredevil run was what catapulted him into the limelight so what he did to Karen wasn't a worrying trend at that time. You could make arguments for what the point was... but after that? Yeah, his depiction of women is narrow and predictable. Sin City doesn't treat the menfolk all that well, either, in my opinion... the women may be prostitutes and strippers but the men are pedophiles and cannibals and everyone is corrupt, which is the point, but his career as a whole? It's questionable.

 

Granted, his Sin City prostitutes were pretty bad ass and controlled their part of town and he did, after all, create Elektra...

 

I don't know. I have very mixed feelings about Miller. I think his artwork is fascinating what with limiting himself as far as colors go and really doing a lot with contrast and negative space... his storytelling is noir-on-steroids which is what results in the everyone is corrupt, all dames are prostitutes, all men are sociopaths tropes that he tends to settle into. Noir isn't known for being particularly progressive when it comes to gender roles but you can also point out that no one exactly covers themselves in glory in that setting.

 

But he had a HUGE influence on Daredevil. HUGE. Miller's influence on the character really cannot be overstated. He brought in the heavy Catholicism, Elektra and Bullseye, the Kingpin as a major repeated villain, the martial arts and the Hand.

Edited by Dandesun
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Have you read Holly Terror? EVERYTHING after THAT piece of shit is only more of the same.

He singlehandedly almost ruined Batman for me. Not to mention that he has published some of the dumbest stories I have ever read... He LOVES Batman and has a huge nerd boner for him... to the point that he deliberately destroys other characters, so Bats can shine. Which is a GIANT no-no in my book. If you don't want to sibject yourself to examples of those comics, check Linkara and his videos at thatguywiththeglasses.com... they are... entertaining.

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But he had a HUGE influence on Daredevil. HUGE. Miller's influence on the character really cannot be overstated. He brought in the heavy Catholicism, Elektra and Bullseye, the Kingpin as a major repeated villain, the martial arts and the Hand.

 

This is why I do think Miller's work has been necessary to the comic book industry. What he did with Daredevil in terms of refining and evolving the character was great. His belief that only a Catholic could be both a lawyer and a vigilante amuses me (as a lapsed Catholic), and it does add a lot to the character. Kingpin was a great villain too. Bullseye has been forever sullied in my eyes from that Thunderbolts run a few years ago, where he was constantly written with 'magnificent bastard' invincibility by some fanboy writer.

 

He reinvigorated Daredevil, and he gave Batman new life as well, back in the mid-80s. But those aren't valid reasons for him to keep getting work when he refuses to evolve his own attitudes. I have read Holy Terror, and it is appalling. It's not just hateful and bigoted and full of vitriol, but it's also just not well written, original or interesting. I'm not sure how it could really be any worse.

 

Anyway, to get back on topic, I was rewatching some episodes of the show, and there's a scene I missed, where Karen and Ben are talking and she says something about what Ben learned about her when he was checking her background. She seemed embarrassed and nervous, he seemed apologetic. So I'm guessing that was the first hint dropped about her more sordid past. Hopefully they still tone it down, but I think we can say it's definitely going to be incorporated in some fashion.

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I am hoping that we will see Larry Craston a.k.a Mr. Fear since he was mentioned during Foggy and Matt's college day in which he knew them both. They can also bring in Mark Waid's fantastic college day tale about a bitter law professor who almost got Foggy expelled for plagiarizing because he made the professor look bad. Not to mention Larry was a student of said professor and took on his ideals as a result. Be a great: "What if Matt and Foggy would have gone the other way" villain. I do want to see Potter as Gladiator and I really do hope we see the Jester and more of the Hand trying to come into Hell's Kitchen as a result of Nuno dead and Fisk now awaiting trial. I do think they should not have killed Ben off he could have worked with all series from Jessica Jones to Defenders and has been a stable in that end of the Marvel Universe for a long time. If they need to bring in a character who had ties to all they need to bring in Billy Walters, an upstart new reporter who became friends with Peter Parker and came from Hell's Kitchen but decided not to be a victim of the society or his parents' divorce.

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I think the Ben death was a Rorschach moment - the writers wrote themselves into a corner and realized that there was no (simple) way of having Ben live when he's such a dedicated reporter going after such a dedicated crime boss. Twenty years ago, in Alan Moore's Watchman, he wanted his character Rorschach to survive the story, but realized that would jeopardize his characterization as someone who strove towards the truth regardless of consequence. Kevin Feige, I guess, doesn't mind that Ben is off the table. Maybe they can introduce and expand on his nephew, Phil Urich.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the Karen Page history. People keep pointing out that it was mysoginistic and unnecessary, which it absolutely is. But pornography and heroin abuse exists in the real world, and of all the MCU adaptations I've seen (which is all of them, I believe), I think Daredevil could probably handle it diplomatically and realistically, probably much better than in the original source. Breaking Bad had a meth addict (and dealer, and murderer) as its most sympathetic character, afterall. She's undoubtedly suffering from horrific psychological issues regarding her killing of Wesley, which made me think that a road into substance abuse (leading into heroin abuse, and hopefully recovery shortly after that) would be a logical next step in Season 2.

 

The pornography is harder to explain as anything other than backstory. The character doesn't seem to be very sexualized, so I can only imagine that a past history would be based on personal trauma and maybe she's trying to disavow that part of her past. If it was teenage-era heroin abuse that involved amateur online pornography (as opposed to professional West Coast pornography), that would make the most sense. It would suggest a history of being taken advantage of that the character has completely risen above and now takes control of her own decisions. Of course, Ben Urich bringing it up makes him seem like somewhat of a jerk, but he's got a point that, in this online age, it's impossible for these things to disappear completely and will forever taint her reputation.

 

Of course none of this needs to be brought up, maybe just continued to be hinted at. But I don't think they should go soft on any of it ("one sex tape" or "soft drugs only"), if they do intend to cover the basic details as backstory.

 

Anyway, in my dream scenario, the Defenders will deal with some type of Hand invasion of New York City (brought on by the events of all the other shows, mostly Daredevil though). So, Daredevil Season 2 should help lead into that, with maybe Elektra's introduction as an assassin alongside Bullseye hired to take out Daredevil. Maybe Wilson Fisk, on bail awaiting trial, could also deal with constant threats from the Hand that sideline any attempts to get back at Daredevil.

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I am curious to see what happens with Fisk in season two. I mean yes there are a lot of law enforcement types on his payroll. But at the same time, his attempted escape meant that a bunch of cops got killed, so in the eyes of everyone he isn't paying off he is a cop killer. How does that work for him when he is in holding awaiting trial. 

 

Also I really wonder if there is any possible way they could get Black Widow to show up for an episode or two. I could see how she might be above doing TV but this is kind of different.

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On Jimmy Kimmel the whole Avengers cast said they would love to do one of the TV shows if anyone would ask. Granted, it was hard to tell how serious they were being, but it gives me hope.

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I guess I'm the only one who's not so keen on seeing Fisk again. Hopefully he'll only be back in a reduced capacity - 1 or 2 eps, tops. I'd be, however, ecstatic to see Black Widow (she's my favorite MCU character) and both Bullseye and Elektra sound pretty intriguing.

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They did so much good work on Fisk that they'd be hard pressed not to ignore him. But escaping prison makes season 1 redundant (that's too strong a word but you get my drift). A couple of appearances behind bars or at trial (Matt will definitely attend the trial). I can see Fisk's trial in the background on local tv news, even with the sound off, at Tony Stark's apartment or the new Avengers Academy lounge in the MCU movies. 

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But escaping prison makes season 1 redundant (that's too strong a word but you get my drift).

 

I think the point was not catching Fisk, but him transitioning to full-on villainy. In a way, Matt created Kingpin the villain the same way Fisk and his operation created Daredevil the hero.

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Exactly. I think season 1 was as much of a build up and back story/origin of Fisk as a villain just like it set the pace for Daredevil. I don't think sending Fisk to prison was the overall point more than it was showing how these two "came to be" who they are.

 

So I really hope we will see Fisk in Season 2. It may be a minority opinion, but VDO's Fisk intrigued me as much as Murdock/Daredevil did. Two sides of the same coin.

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From what I remember of the Kingpin character from the Spider Man cartoons, he didn't do that much himself. He masterminded stuff and ordered other people around, that is his thing. He can totally do that from prison, especially if Vanessa works with him on the outside. (But then they also need to better establish why Vanessa would do that - Vanessa backstory please!)

 

So far on this show, Fisk doesn't seem like much of a mastermind, always throwing tantrums and then Wesley had to clean up his messes. I came away with the impression that Wesley must have been responsible for his entire rise to power because how can such a big baby get anything done?

 

If show brings Fisk back, which they probably will, they need to do better about convincing me this guy is smart. Old-school Kingpin didn't resort to beating up people all the time. It doesn't really make him look scary, it makes him look stupid.

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(edited)

Yeah, I think season 2 will show Fisk taking on more of the Kingpin persona in prison. He's a formidable physical threat, as much as he is smart and successful (though I agree that he needs to learn to stand on his own two feet now that he's lost Wesley), so I imagine he'll quickly establish a base of power in the prison, while continuing to exercise his influence outside, through Vanessa and what's left of his organisation.

 

How that might play out more long term, I don't know. Because realistically, Fisk is never getting out of prison, with all the evidence against him (not least the news footage of him being sprung from the FBI van by armed men who gunned down police officers and FBI agents), but for the purposes of the show, you can't just have him in prison forever. He needs to be a real threat to Daredevil again, at some point. Prison break? Probably the easiest way to do it, but not until the end of season 2 at the earliest, in my view.

 

As for the Avengers cast, I do think they could get them to make one off appearances (as long as they were clear that those TV show appearances did not count towards their agreed movie appearance contracts), and it could work quite well. I could see Matt and Foggy running into Tony Stark at some sort of fundraiser, or for Daredevil to cross paths with Natasha on some rooftop. Perhaps he and Steve could share some gym time.

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I'll sooner expect the Avengers on AoS than here, to be honest. And I really don't feel like this show needs them, at this point. I mean, I wouldn't mind, but I just feel like it's too much street-level compared to the epic battles with Loki, Ultron and Thanos.

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I'll sooner expect the Avengers on AoS than here, to be honest. And I really don't feel like this show needs them, at this point. I mean, I wouldn't mind, but I just feel like it's too much street-level compared to the epic battles with Loki, Ultron and Thanos.

 

That's why I think it would have to be an off-mission meeting. I could buy Matt meeting Tony Stark, more than I could buy him meeting Iron Man. Natasha would be the most likely because, when it comes down to it, she's street level as well. But if they could get Adrianne Palicki to appear, that would make me happy, as I love her, but I'm not watching Agents of SHIELD.

 

Knowing the way Marvel think though, they'll probably shoehorn Blandness Personified into an episode of Daredevil instead, and I'll have to deal with his smug smirk and one-note line deliveries.

 

Back to thoughts about bad guys to add to season 2, the Wrecking Crew would be pretty good (as long as the magical crowbar thing is put on ice) as enemies for Matt to go up against. They'd play well with the show's idea of rebuilding and fixing the city.

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Natasha would be the most likely because, when it comes down to it, she's street level as well. 

Plus as I mentioned way back before the season started, she probably broke a ton of laws when she dumped all of SHIELD's records onto the internet. She could probably use the advice of a good lawyer.

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(edited)

I really ship Karen X Matt, screw you Claire.

What really caught my eye in the first season though, was Matt's struggles with his identity. Would he kill someone and become the devil he fears becoming? Or would he just knock everyone out and avoid killing anyone and just keep being the good guy? You know, there's something stupid about daredevil not killing anyone, not even those who are dead set on killing him. Here are some bad results of this: A) No one will really fear him, because they know he would never kill them! B) Just knocking everyone out won't stop them, and it's only in the "perfect" world that the cops will be there to arrest everyone he knocks out. If the cops don't arrive, they're just gonna heal and get back to doing whatever bad things they used to do. C) By not killing a bad guy (like Kingpin), daredevil is in another sense allowing him to stay active and kill other people. So in a sense he's actually killing a lot of innocent people!

Though he has killed someone already (Nobu), idk if that counted because it didn't seem like a big deal in the show at all.

Edit: Yeah, so I really want to see this struggle addressed in season 2...

Edited by Haunted
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I really want to see how they handle Elektra in this show. I hope they keep her character a recurring one and don't make her a regular. This way it would be more badass whenever she shows up out of nowhere either as a foe or a friend. Always making the audiences guess. 

 

As far a shipping goes, I ship Matt with everyone but Karen. I see nothing there. I loved Matt and Claire but I would be fine if doesn't happen. I just love Claire and I hope we see more of her next season then we did this season. 

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Would love to see Matt and Karen tell each other their secrets.  I guess I just love superhero reveal moments.

 

Not sure I ship anyone on the show (apart from Vanessa/Fisk, heh, those two fucked up kids really make it work), but Matt/Claire is a definite possibility.  I'm not against Matt/Karen, I guess they might bond over the killing thing?

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Not sure I ship anyone on the show (apart from Vanessa/Fisk, heh, those two fucked up kids really make it work)

 

Glad to know I'm not alone. It's so wrong, but...eh. Psychopathic, arrested-developed, megalomaniac murderers need love, too!  :-)

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The reason why I think Matt and Claire won't work is because Claire told Matt in the first season that she's not ok with Matt's superhero life and just wants him to herself. Obviously that's not gonna happen!

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Personally, I never consider unintended HoYay as an option. And it's fairly clear it's not intended here at all (and really, I haven't seen anything that subtext-y between them, just friendship).

 

I don't really mind Karen and Matt, provided the show will continue to build them up slowly and carefully, but I can't say I ship them. However, not a fan of Claire/Matt, the romance between them felt way too jarring for me and Claire herself isn't explored well enough for that (at least yet). The same could be said about Vanessa who isn't much of a character (and I wouldn't want to wish Fisk on anybody). Overall, I guess don't care about romance angle on the show. I don't find any of the character (maybe except Karen, but that's just my love for the actress) or their relationships emotionally compelling enough to invest in the shipping right off the bat. Intellectually compelling, sure, but not emotionally.

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I'd love them to do a complete recreation of Elektra's death scene...except she wins and gets her revenge on Bullseye then and there. Just a straight "fuck you" to Frank Miller.

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One thing I would like to see for season 2 is to try to make it look a bit more like part of the MCU. From the technology point of view it seems weird to me that Howard Stark basically invented the flying car in 1943 but in Daredevil it is 2015 and yet their world looks pretty much exactly like ours. I don't want Foggy in a flying car or anything but it should at least look a bit better.

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