Emma Swan: 1000% done with your infuriating optimism

[YaddaYadda]

I'm one of the people who really doesn't care that Marian has been brought to the future because really Marian/Robin goes without saying for me.  So works just fine.  that being said and as much as I really love Emma, she has this problem with her hearing, you know when she decides that she won't listen, she's pretty much unbeatable.  And I felt bad for Hook but he can dispense her truths to her without blinking, so good on him. 

[Dani-Ellie]

I don't really care that Emma brought Marian forward, either. The overarching themes of the finale were home and family. The reunion of Robin, Marian, and Roland as a family unit will never not be a good thing, in my eyes, complications be damned.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Souris]

I totally understand Emma not feeling loved by her parents. Don't blame her in that department. The part that annoyed me was her rudeness to Hook. She didn't even try to be nice about going to New York. She put everyone else's feelings aside, including Henry's, for her's alone. She was better than that, so I'm going to have to say it was the almighty plot that caused that.

 

I can see the rudeness being a subconscious thing where she knows she's hurting everybody and being mean to them, but she kind of wants to, because if they're mad at her, then maybe they won't be so upset about her leaving. And, of course, it's part of her whole "push them away before they leave me" defense mechanism. It's not a positive character trait, but it's certainly understandable, given her history.

[RadioGirl27]

I think the rudeness and all the "I'm going back to New York" was really in character, but it dragged for too long.

[Rumsy4]

I think the rudeness and all the "I'm going back to New York" was really in character, but it dragged for too long.

 

Agree. That, and having her contribute very little to the defeat of Zelena, made her 3B arc really annoying. 

Edited June 3, 2014 by Rumsy4

[stealinghome]

Yeah, what made her 3b arc really disappointing for me was that there was no build-up to her decision to stay. The show needed to do more to SHOW that Emma had missed Snowing and SHOW that she felt more and more comfortable and at home in Storybrooke. I could then have bought her stonewalling insistence on going back to NYC much easier, actually, because you really could have seen it as Emma running away/diving further into denial. Like every moment she becomes a little happier with Storybrooke, despite herself, she doubles down on NYC. The problem for me was that it was just static. I think the show tried, sometimes, to show this, but it just didn't flow and connect for me (having 493737 scenes of Zelena snarling at Regina/Rumpel or fooling Snow was obviously more important). Maybe it would come through better if I marathoned 3b, and maybe it was partly an acting thing, but still.

[Shanna Marie]

Like every moment she becomes a little happier with Storybrooke, despite herself, she doubles down on NYC.

But I never got the feeling that she actually was happier with Storybrooke. That may have been because she wasn't letting herself be happy, but I think a lot of it was genuine. She was comparing the year in New York -- the year of making pancakes and having cocoa with Henry and normal dates and playing video games, etc. -- with life in Storybrooke under Zelena's threats -- flying monkeys, witch battles on Main Street and ghost attacks, and everyone expecting her to be the one to solve it all. Is a family, one that she actually barely knows, really worth the trade-off? Especially since the last time she was kind of letting herself feel like she was part of a family and was getting a little flirt on with the pirate who pines for her, it was all yanked away. So, yeah, she's going to push people away and not get involved and want to get back to a time she remembers as good, even if it was based on false memories. As for Hook, when you're used to the people who supposedly love you turning on you, you're probably going to resist the next person who acts like he loves you, in part to avoid getting hurt again, because the more you love him, the more it hurts when it falls apart, and in part because if he outlasts you and isn't put off, then you might know he's really there. Considering that barely two weeks went by in their time, I don't think that her resistance to him was all that extreme. She hadn't seen him in a year and hadn't thought of him in all that time, and it wasn't as though things were making all that much progress before. Just a few weeks before that lost year, he'd been an enemy. She was just being smart to be slow to warm up to him. It's a rather nice subversion of the "love at first sight" trope to have a fairytale princess actually wait to see what a guy is really like beyond the first impression and to let him work to win her. He was frustrated with her "we had a good life in New York" refrain, but I never got the sense that he was at all put off by her not instantly falling for him. He knew what he was getting into, and I think he's the kind of guy who enjoys a challenge.

[KingOfHearts]

I agree, stealinghome. I understand Emma being walled up - the issue was the execution. The plot kept Emma from having any sort of character development until the finale. The funny thing is, the finale had little to do with everything that actually happened in S3. Emma's character development went from zero to sixty in two episodes. It came from nowhere. 

 

And about her rebuffing Hook - it was fine and dandy for her not to try to get into a relationship with him. But the constant snarking ("What with you?", "He only has one hand, I have magic.") and pouncing on him about the kiss curse was more than just trying to avoid a romantic relationship. The show just kept doing it over and over and over, then in the finale, it was all Captain Swan full force. That made no sense.

Edited June 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I didn't think she needed to jump into Hook's arms right away either, but I did find her cutting remarks to Hook increasingly grating, culminating in the nasty "one-hand" remark. I get it--she was trying to push him away, afraid to take another risk, etc., but it became borderline childish by 3.20. She also did not have any meaningful interactions with her parents after she got back to Storybrooke. The writers should have shown her talking to them and feeling conflicted, and her parents making some kind of an effort to show her they wanted her. And then they squished all her character growth into two episodes. It was an amazing and satisfying finale, no doubt about that, but Emma was merely spinning the wheels the rest of 3B. The problem is the writing is plot-driven, and they would rather play with their new toy raher than develop their main characters in a more organic way. 

[YaddaYadda]

I think when it came to Hook, it was all about him not being deterred by her because as he said, he knows her better than she knows herself.  At the end of 3A, she basically encouraged him to think of her (before she knew her memories would be messed with).  And Hook isn't exactly in the category of people who give up when they hit a brick wall.  He takes everything thrown at him as a challenge.  Rumple tells him good luck living long enough to get your revenge, dude goes to Neverland and manages to do just that.  You got admire him for never giving up (whether his motives are noble or not).

 

I thought that through 3B, Emma's mouth sort of ran away from her.  Her actions with Hook, the way she would look at him or speak to him was a far cry from those barbs she would throw at him.  There were moments where I thought she wanted to just throw her arms around him or wanted him to do something.  Maybe it's the acting choices, so I don't know.

[KAOS Agent]

The writers are definitely not interested in any character development other than Regina's. Sometimes the plot requires other characters to get some development (see: Captain Hook), but Emma tends to be the one to get the shaft most often because they mess with her just to fit the plot. Emma's actions in 3B made complete sense to me because everything to do with Storybrooke and the fairy tale world had screwed her over time and again. After she had accepted it and started to let these people in, it was all stolen from her again in "Going Home". Why would she be open to having it all ripped away again? That Emma started lashing out at Hook was believable to me because she had just been seriously hurt romantically and he was the "safe" option to attack. She clearly couldn't lash out at her scared and pregnant mother. A little work and positive character interaction might have given me a glimmer of understanding about her maybe starting to waver on her decision, but we never got anything of the sort. They never once showed me any reason for Emma to stay in Storybrooke.

 

Even the finale (much as I enjoyed it) seemed to be a demonstration of why Emma should get the hell out of Dodge. She was exactly right when she said falling through portals does not happen in New York. She spent several days in a magical medieval hell where she watched a village being terrorized, saw the Evil Queen burn her mother at the stake, was jailed and set to be executed herself and then placed in an exit-less vault and left to die by Rumpelstiltskin. What about that would make her think hey I should totally stay in Storybrooke and live with people who would do this? I get that she missed her parents and all, but why not just visit them occasionally. Maybe she could move to Portland, ME and be close to them but much safer. Nothing in the plot, plot, plot of the finale fits with complete 180 made in the last minutes after the total regression that had gone on for the entirety of 3B. It was just the writers saying we need Emma in Storybrooke, so now she's going to stay because reasons.

Edited June 3, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Serena]

I think the rudeness and all the "I'm going back to New York" was really in character, but it dragged for too long.

It's the problem with this show's insane timeline: for us, her "go back to New York" thing lasted for months, and basically ten episodes. For the characters, it was barely a week (a totally reasonable lenght of time to decide something like this)

[KingOfHearts]

She obviously can't leave now with Henry, now that he's back with Regina. If she leaves now, she'll be alone, and she's been alone all her life. After watching the finale, it's clear she doesn't want to be alone any more. Granted, the writing should have given her a better relationship with her parents than what she has.

 

When you love your family, it does not matter how uncomfortable life gets. That's the connection that's missing - that's what has caused the pacing and character development issues with Emma. Her parents aren't there for her like they should be. Her only reason to stay in Storybrooke is family, and when her parents are throwing her off to the side, it doesn't leave much reason for her to stay.

As viewers, I think we all want her to stay in Storybrooke. Preferably with consistent writing and a good reason.

Edited June 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[ShadowFacts]

 

She spent several days in a magical medieval hell where she watched a village being terrorized, saw the Evil Queen burn her mother at the stake, was jailed and set to be executed herself and then placed in an exit-less vault and left to die by Rumpelstiltskin. What about that would make her think hey I should totally stay in Storybrooke and live with people who would do this?

 

Exactly.  Besides which, after seeing Regina's homicidal actions up close and personal, why in the world would she let Henry be within a hundred miles of her?  Yet she shakes all the horror off pretty darn quick and gets cozy with Hook at Granny's.  It was a little too illogical and rushed for me.  It is not believable to me that she would let love of family override every bit of experience she has had.

[Emma]

I think the rudeness and all the "I'm going back to New York" was really in character, but it dragged for too long.

 

That was my only issue. It was very much in character but the writers could have done so much more with her arc. But they had Regina to focus on while dumping on Emma's character. Ugh.

 

I thought that through 3B, Emma's mouth sort of ran away from her.  Her actions with Hook, the way she would look at him or speak to him was a far cry from those barbs she would throw at him. 

 

As someone who pays a lot of attention to her body language, I agree. There's been so many wonderful gifsets on tumblr highlighting these moments too. But people tend to remember the barbs and that sours them on her character.

 

I can see the rudeness being a subconscious thing where she knows she's hurting everybody and being mean to them, but she kind of wants to, because if they're mad at her, then maybe they won't be so upset about her leaving. And, of course, it's part of her whole "push them away before they leave me" defense mechanism. It's not a positive character trait, but it's certainly understandable, given her history.

 

Agreed. She was going to do the hurting and leaving before it could happen to her again. It's not an attractive thing to do but I could totally buy Emma trying to do it.

[Camera One]

Besides which, after seeing Regina's homicidal actions up close and personal, why in the world would she let Henry be within a hundred miles of her?  Yet she shakes all the horror off pretty darn quick and gets cozy with Hook at Granny's.  It was a little too illogical and rushed for me.  It is not believable to me that she would let love of family override every bit of experience she has had.

 

And the worst thing is the episode hardly developed Emma's love of family, despite the episode supposedly being the pivotal turning point for that progression.  She hardly had a scene with her dad or her mom.  And as you said, they ended her all satisfied and happy in Hook's arms, as if nothing else in that adventure mattered or affected her in any way.  She should have been horrified and disturbed at the things Regina used to do.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 She should have been horrified and disturbed at the things Regina used to do.

 

I believe she already knew the horrendous things Regina had done in the past from her parents stories or the book, but seeing it in person should have had more of an effect on her than it did. Emma saw Regina evil-queening it up in S1 firsthand at in her face, so I really don't know where in the storyline she became comfortable being around her. After the curse broke, she never confronted Regina, nor did her parents. You'd think Graham's death would have raised more eyebrows, even with Snow. But Regina's morality is a subject for discussion in another several long threads.

Emma clearly needs more interaction and personal moments with other characters besides Hook to figure some of this out.

Edited June 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Emma]

I'm hoping and I know it's probably stupid to do so. But I'm hoping it was more about Emma just wanting to be with her parents in the finale. All the conversations we're wanting them to have will happen in season 4 now. It's still going to be a building process but hopefully they start showing us those moments.

Unless, of course, Snowing is ready to leave her behind again.

[Aliasscape]

She obviously can't leave now with Henry, now that he's back with Regina. If she leaves now, she'll be alone, and she's been alone all her life.

 

She could have taken him. There was plenty to argue that he was safer outside of Storybrooke. Even Regina was kinda "wait, why would you leave" exactly because she knew Emma could take Henry with her. Regina hasn't had custody since season 1 (rightfully so) and she's the one who relinquished it. And she didn't even bother to bring Henry with her on her little ice cream date with Roland and Robin.  What was with that? A preteen boy surely did not turn down ice cream.

 

I loved that all Emma's early storylines did not revolve around "a guy" for 3 whole seasons was a refreshing departure from every other show on television. That she was focused on her child, her family and helping others, so great. I fear however that is over. That Emma and Hook have been crowned a power couple and they'll do all the fighting of bad guys together from this point forward and the ultimate big bad they'll be facing is that they might *gasp* break up. Arg.

[FormerMod-a1]

I moved a few posts to the Relationships thread.  It's a fine line and there is leeway, of course, but we were straying more and more off topic of "Emma".  Also, if you don't think there's quite the right topic for a discussion, you can create your own.  If you have any questions about the different threads/topics or creating new ones, just let me know via PM.

 

Thanks, and carry on.

[Mari]

I have to agree about Emma being annoying in 3B. She sang New York, New York like Sinatra didn't have anything on her. Never understood why someone would choose a comfortable life over family, especially after 3x11 (Going Home). The Hook brush-offs got old quick. 

 

Personally, I'm not sure it was choosing comfy life over family.   Even in New York, Emma and Henry would have been only a few hours from Storybrooke.  Lots of grown children live a few hours away from their parents.  When you take into account how little actual interest Mary Margaret (and David, to a lesser extent) had in Emma-the-person vs Emma-the-rescuer?  There was very little "This is our daughter and we love her." and a whole lot of "This is Emma, to whom we are distantly related and really rather like, especially since she saves us.  Go be useful to us, Emma."

 

Choosing a life for herself and her child that would involve about 80% less magically evil badness while still being able to see the distantly affectionate relatives?  That is choosing family.

 

Emma and her parents come from two vastly different worldviews. Snow's and Charming's "infuriating optimism" must have struck Emma, someone who's never had anything work out for the best, as ridiculously naïve. As the saying goes, you can hope in one hand and shit in the other, and Emma's spent her entire life hoping and getting nothing for it. To Snow and Charming, Emma's defeatist attitude must have been unbelievably dispiriting. They'd seen dire circumstances turn around and work out for the best but Emma never had. Nobody could understand where the other was coming from.

 

Emma's walls were built by a lifetime of having only herself to rely on. Her first instinct is to push people away, all, "I don't need you," because leaning on other people has gotten her nothing but hurt. That doesn't make it any less infuriating, of course, but it makes sense.

I think a lot of it comes down to one thing:  Snow and David might've had a tough road, but there was always, always someone who loved each of them.  There was always a person in their live that they could rely on to back them, to feed them, to be interested in why they were doing that crazy thing with their hair. 

Even when Snow was banditing around, before she met David, she had people like Red, Granny, and Grumpy and his brothers.

That's huge.

[Rumsy4]

If Emma had wanted to go back to New York because she really thought it was safer and better for Henry and herself, that would be a different thing. But that was not true. Hook called her out on it. The only reason she was running was because she had bought into Neal's idiotic idea (which was presented as something wise) that the only way to know what home is to keep running until you miss it. She had been no safer in New York (Walsh) with her false memories. The same would go for the next Big Bad. She wanted to run because that's what she was used to doing. 

 

I would agree that Mary Margaret and David haven't given her much reason to stay other than make some passive aggressive statements. However, Henry clearly prefers Storybrooke, and would want live close to Regina, his grandparents, Archie, etc., rather than away from them for most of the time in New York. Emma could at least have had some discussions with Henry about it. Instead she made idiotic statements as though Henry was not smart enough to even choose the right kind of milk to put on his cereal. And yet, earlier she was taking relationship advice from him. The writers just took it too far for the sake of angst. Organically, Emma at the end of 3a was much more receptive than the Emma with false memories. The memory loss and separation was done just for plot reasons. In fact, they could have let Emma and Henry keep their memories, and still have Emma feel conflicted over returning to Storybrooke. But as I said in another thread, the writers love their parallels way too much. 

 

That conversation she had with Hook in the finale needed to have happened earlier. She and her parents should have had at least one discussion where they tried to show they really wanted her in Storybrooke, and not just to save them. Emma should have discussed her decision with Henry, even if he did not agree with her. A little bit of tension between her and Regina over this issue during 3B would have been better than the stupid Maid Marian issue as well. Having Emma merely keep chanting "New York, New York" without developing the arc properly only made her look like a brat. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

Rumsy4, I'm in love with your post. I agree with every word of it - you took it right out of my mouth! I couldn't have explained it better. Brownies to you!

 

Emma choosing Storybrooke in a "No place like home" fashion was a nice idea, but it was executed poorly. I agree that a little spat between Regina and Emma over where Henry is would have been better than Dramarian. (Drama + Marian)

Edited June 7, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Dani-Ellie]

There was always a person in their live that they could rely on to back them, to feed them, to be interested in why they were doing that crazy thing with their hair.

 

Absolutely. I feel it cannot possibly be overstated how incredibly hard and lonely Emma's life has been. The concept of having absolutely no support system whatsoever is thankfully so very foreign to much of the population, and it's definitely foreign to both Snow and Charming. Everything Emma's done, she's done on her own, not out of any desire to go it alone but out of necessity to survive this world. She's had no one to truly help her along the way, and any bright spots she's had have been either fleeting or pulled out from under her. She's had no one to rely on but herself, she didn't have anyone to call if she needed help or was just having a bad day and needed to hear a friendly voice. She had no one to celebrate good times with and no one to comfort her during the bad times.

 

So yeah, things may have ultimately worked out for Snow and Charming, but they had help. They had people to bounce ideas off of, they had people to buck them up when they were feeling hopeless, they had faith in those around them. Emma didn't have any of that, and not for lack of trying. All Emma could do was navigate this world on her own as best as she could, and when things didn't work out, she didn't have anyone to offer her any alternatives or give her the hope that it was going to get better eventually.

 

Snow and Charming might as well not even be on the same planet as Emma, pretty much; their life experiences are that different. And while Snow and Charming had a point when they told Emma that believing things will work out for the best is better than going into a situation hopeless, Emma also had a point that relentless optimism wasn't going to fix everything, either. Because I highly doubt Emma ever hoped for the life she led, and hoping and wishing things were different never made it so.

[YaddaYadda]

If Emma had wanted to go back to New York because she really thought it was safer and better for Henry and herself, that would be a different thing. But that was not true. Hook called her out on it. The only reason she was running was because she had bought into Neal's idiotic idea (which was presented as something wise) that the only way to know what home is to keep running until you miss it. She had been no safer in New York (Walsh) with her false memories. The same would go for the next Big Bad. She wanted to run because that's what she was used to doing. 

 

So much of this!  There were two things I beyond hated during the finale and they surprisingly (not really) had to do with the Nealster.  Snowflake named after him (not Emma's fault really).  What really bothered me is how much hold Neal actually seemed to have on Emma that she bought into what he was throwing down.  Neal had 3 homes during his life, with his Father, with the Darlings and finally with Hook.  His life with his father was good until he became the Dark One, his life with the Darlings was good until the shadow and his life with Hook was seemingly good until he rejected what Hook was offering and then was off the ship.  And he missed those homes.

 

He actually had a sense of what home was.  These people wanted him, loved him, cared about him.  Emma never experienced any of that and apparently never stayed long enough to even experience any of that.  She had a lot less than he ever had. 

 

You don't have a home until you miss it.  Really?  I'm not even gonna go into those fake memories Emma had since she had seemingly accepted that her home was in Storybooke in 3A. 

 

Analyzing this just shows me how all over the place the writing actually is.

 

(But I miss this stupid show a lot right now)

[Camera One]

What really bothered me is how much hold Neal actually seemed to have on Emma that she bought into what he was throwing down. 

 

He actually had a sense of what home was.  These people wanted him, loved him, cared about him.  Emma never experienced any of that and apparently never stayed long enough to even experience any of that.  She had a lot less than he ever had.

Maybe that's why Emma held on to what Neal said? Because she didn't experience it, so she went with and continued to look for what Neal described as "home".

The problem I had is that Emma DID experience missing her parents and her life in Storybrooke when she was told they would all be taken away from her in "Going Home". And she looked devastated. So even if she had all those NYC memories, she should still have remembered that she didn't want to leave all the people she met in Storybrooke.

[KingOfHearts]

The problem I had is that Emma DID experience missing her parents and her life in Storybrooke when she was told they would all be taken away from her in "Going Home". And she looked devastated. So even if she had all those NYC memories, she should still have remembered that she didn't want to leave all the people she met in Storybrooke.

 

Bingo.

 

The city life vs. Storybrooke scenario already happened in Season 1. They repeated the issue of being lonely in the city as well. I think Emma already learned her lesson about staying in Storybrooke (as evident in Going Home), but for some reason it was recycled for angst or plot or both.

 

It reminds of when Emma tried to kidnap Henry and bring him to Boston (The Stranger? I think?), but Henry stops her. When she gets back to the loft, Mary Margaret reprimands her and claims she's "reverting" to she was before living in Storybrooke.. Emma also said it was for Henry's well-being, as she did in 3B.

Edited June 7, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

So even if she had all those NYC memories, she should still have remembered that she didn't want to leave all the people she met in Storybrooke.

I can buy that it was hard for her to let go of the "nice," "normal" life she had in NYC with Henry (not mention that apparently very rent controlled apartment, yowza), given she'd never had that before. She also got 12 years of (fake) memories with Henry -- as much as she came to care about her parents in seasons 1-3a, she had only known them briefly. In her mind, at least, she had a nice little comfortable life wait the child she'd raised from birth. I can understand desperately wanting to cling to that, hoping to find that again -- even if it meant not living in the same town as her folks. 

[Mari]

Some of it could be Emma's reaction to big, world-endy situations.  Her big emotional breakthroughs usually have happened then.  It's easier to recognize something's important when everything else is burning away.

 

And while I know the writers aren't probably ever going there, in 3B Emma wasn't facing immediate world ending--things were dangerous, but they had downtime to do things like build cribs.  If they were dealing with her emotions in a realistic way, during these experiences she would actually be mentally and emotionally processing some of what happened in Neverland--Snow's Echo Cave baby speech that echoed big traumas in Emma's childhood, and how easily disposable she was to them when they were discussing staying in Neverland, for example.

 

Personally, it would make it easier for me to move them into the "People I love and want to see regularly, but maybe only on some of the weekends." category. 

 

I can see the Emma in 3B being someone who knows she'd like to regularly see the Storybrooke people, but now has years of memories (yes, fake, but still memories) of how deep her connection to Henry really is.  In 3B, the closest Emma's actually been to that feeling Neal described is looking at that fake memory life and the year she had with Henry. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by Mari

[Emma]

I can buy that it was hard for her to let go of the "nice," "normal" life she had in NYC with Henry (not mention that apparently very rent controlled apartment, yowza), given she'd never had that before. She also got 12 years of (fake) memories with Henry -- as much as she came to care about her parents in seasons 1-3a, she had only known them briefly. In her mind, at least, she had a nice little comfortable life wait the child she'd raised from birth. I can understand desperately wanting to cling to that, hoping to find that again -- even if it meant not living in the same town as her folks. 

 

I can only imagine how hard that must have been for her to wake up from. I will never forgive the writers for not having at least one meaningful conversation with someone about what she was going through. Henry, of all people, was the only one to understand how hard it must have been for to return to Storybrooke.

 

That arc should have been so much more but the writers felt it was more important for her to just shout about how great NY was.

[retrograde]

I also understand Emma wanting Henry to have the "normal" childhood she never had. In Neverland, he has a therapist and no friends and a murderer for a mother and his life is in constant danger. Once he got his memories back, of course, there was no way Henry was going to have a bar of that (though a real kid probably would have missed his old life and friends somewhat; I do hope the whole experience will make Henry a little less weird next season), but again, I can understand Emma trying to cling to the "fake" life.

 

I can only imagine how hard that must have been for her to wake up from.

 

 

Yeah, especially given that in her fake life, she hadn't given Henry up for adoption and had, presumably, worked hard after getting out of jail to make a life for them. To suddenly rediscover, oh that's right, you actually gave up the kid you thought you had a lifetime of memories with at birth... that's gotta sting.

Edited June 7, 2014 by retrograde

[Camera One]

I also understand Emma wanting Henry to have the "normal" childhood she never had.

Yes, that part I can understand.

They never really "went there" with how Regina would have acted if Emma did decide she was going to leave Storybrooke. It would be selfish, but I wouldn't have blamed Emma if she missed the life with just Henry and her, and not sharing custody with Regina. It would have been even better for Regina's development if they didn't make Henry such a cheerleader, if they kept his attitude consistent with early Season 2, maybe with a little bit of thawing but without the full-on pom-poms.

They also never "went there" with how Henry would have acted if Emma had insisted he go back with her to NYC.

There is so much they COULD have explored with Emma and didn't, and this is not even including the mountain-load of awesome scenes she could have had with both Snow and Charming, both separately and together, during 3B.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Camera One

[FabulousTater]

The city life vs. Storybrooke scenario already happened in Season 1. They repeated the issue of being lonely in the city as well. I think Emma already learned her lesson about staying in Storybrooke (as evident in Going Home), but for some reason it was recycled for angst or plot or both.

 

That's not exactly what the season 1 scenario of Emma taking Henry out of Storybrooke was about.

 

Emma had decided early in season 1 to stay in Storybrooke and attempt to lay down roots in that town for Henry's sake. Emma decided to run with Henry only when it was clear that A) Regina was an unfit parent (Regina tried to frame Mary Margaret for murder, got Sydney to cover for her when the plot was exposed, and was more than willing to let Henry take on the brunt of emotional pain if it meant it could get Emma out of town), B) Regina had limitless power in the town, and C) apparently everyone in town was wacky and thought Emma was some sort of prophesied Savior. There was a huge burden and pressure on Emma to solve everyone's problems when she felt she could barely help herself or her own son.

 

Emma was scared and had no solutions to everything going wrong around her so she "reverted" to what had always helped her survive - "running". She grabbed Henry and tried to run, but Henry stopped her. But then, Emma made the hard choice to leave because as long as she was in town, Regina was willing to use Henry as ammunition in the war between them. Emma felt that leaving saved Henry further harm. That's why she had decided to leave. And that's not the same as what happened in 3B. I agree 3B was poorly executed, but it wasn't the same as what happened in season 1.

 

In 3B, Emma was "running" back to NYC because that's the place where she had been the happiest in her entire life -- in NYC with Henry. Even though it was based on false memories, that 1 real year in NYC with Henry was the best in her entire life and she thought of it as "home" because she missed it, which according to Douchefire's (Neal) "Pro Tips for Life" (which NO ONE should be listening to EVER because you shouldn't listen to life advice from Mr. "I'm a featured story from 'To Catch A Predator' " and I ended my own life by lethal stupidity), is how you know a place is "home". So Emma wanted to go back to it. She even says as much to Mary Margaret that she considered NYC "home".

 

And that doesn't contradict what happened at the end of 3A when Emma didn't want to leave her family. Even though Emma's life in Storybrooke from the moment she arrived leading all the way up to "Going Home" was insane and hectic, she had never had it better. Emma had never had people in her life who loved or cared for her or anything approaching stable relationships until she arrived in Storybrooke. So, naturally, she didn't want to leave Storybrooke and her family at the end of 3A.

 

So for both halves of season 3, Emma was in constant search of "home" but it just kept changing on her because what she was using to define "home" was seriously flawed; she didn't know what "home" looked like. So Emma kept clinging to what she knew was good. In 3A that was her life in Storybrooke, in 3B it was her life in NYC.

 

That said, ya. The whole thing was poorly executed. The writing spent no time developing her story. They kept having her repeat that she wanted to go back to Storybrooke without giving her character the scenes to explain why. And the writers didn't bother to do so until the season finale when they put their Woegina toy down and noticed there are other characters on the show. That and even the audience couldn't discern why Emma should stay in Storybrooke because for all appearances, outside of Hook, no one had come looking for her because of her. They just needed "The Savior".

Edited June 7, 2014 by FabulousTater

[KAOS Agent]

I hate that they regressed Emma in 3B using a motive that basically just laid it all at the feet of a life long survival instinct to run away rather than addressing the very real issues that Emma would have with living in Storybrooke. It was just ridiculous, but god forbid any hero character experience real development. I hated that they glossed over how losing the false memories would have affected Emma. I hated that they never had the Charmings tell Emma how much they had missed her and not just what she could do for them. I hated that we never once saw Mary Margaret even try to broach the subject of what she said in Echo Cave and the new baby. I hate that we never saw anyone other than Neal ask Emma about her life in the last year. It's a pretty big indictment on the Charmings that Neal & Hook were the only two people who honestly seemed interested in Emma the person. Poor Hook was constantly trying to use her family as the lever to get her to want to stay, but he never got any help from that quarter in convincing her she was wanted and loved. The Charmings were pretty much, baby, baby, baby, Wicked Witch, baby, baby, baby. That had to make Emma feel just great. I'm sure that really helped her get over the fact that she was back in the land of wicked witches and time travelling holy wars. 

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe that's why Emma held on to what Neal said? Because she didn't experience it, so she went with and continued to look for what Neal described as "home".

The problem I had is that Emma DID experience missing her parents and her life in Storybrooke when she was told they would all be taken away from her in "Going Home". And she looked devastated. So even if she had all those NYC memories, she should still have remembered that she didn't want to leave all the people she met in Storybrooke.

 

Emma held on to a lot of the things Neal said and Neal did.  Her relationship with him colored her perspective on pretty much everything, from what home is and how she should feel about it to being completely closed off to the idea of love (any type) or being in love.

 

Emma wasn't fucked up enough because of her experience growing up in the system.

 

Emma was prepared to go to the Enchanted Forest at the end of 3A, but I absolutely understand that the fake year she had was probably the happiest she had ever been but I think it's the 11 years worth of fake memories that messed her up the most.

 

Anyway...I think I have unresolved issues of my own when it comes to this show...

[Shanna Marie]

Even though it was based on false memories, that 1 real year in NYC with Henry was the best in her entire life and she thought of it as "home" because she missed it, which according to Douchefire's (Neal) "Pro Tips for Life" (which NO ONE should be listening to EVER because you shouldn't listen to life advice from Mr. "I'm a featured story from 'To Catch A Predator' " and I ended my own life by lethal stupidity), is how you know a place is "home". So Emma wanted to go back to it. She even says as much to Mary Margaret that she considered NYC "home".

That actually makes total sense for her. If she's internalized the lesson that you know something has been home when you miss it after you lose it, then if she missed the life in New York, that must mean it's home. Meanwhile, going to New York might be a test of whether or not Storybrooke was home -- she couldn't let herself call it home unless she left it and missed it. So maybe she wasn't necessarily really planning on staying there, just testing to see if she missed Storybrooke when she left it more than she missed New York when she left it, and that's how she'd know which was really home. She hadn't had the chance to miss Storybrooke before because she didn't remember it when she was away. By Neal's twisted logic, you can't know something was home until you've left it behind. What he neglected to mention to Emma is that if you do that, you may find that it's too late (well, I guess he sort of mentioned not being able to go back, but he didn't seem to make the connection that defining home that way might mean that you never really got to be home).

[sharky]

I don't know. I find the whole "Home is when you miss it" to just be a ruse. I think the real issue is Emma had walls -- something the writers made painfully clear over and over. In fact, Hook called her out on it several times -- she was so afraid to let people in that she put up these walls and used everything as an excuse, including Neal's stupid theory. I feel like the writers may have tried to shoe-horn that excuse in to make Neal's death be more meaningful but in the end, it really was all about Emma. All you have to do is see the scene in the finale when Hook and Emma are finally kissing. The words they used from Gold over that had nothing to do with accepting home and everything to do with letting down the walls. I think the bigger problem is that the writers probably felt obligated to some sort of Neal Hero arc since they were killing him but after all he did to Emma, I just can't buy into it.

[KingOfHearts]

It wasn't Emma wanting to stay in New York that bothered me, but the way her character was written through 3B. It was the same issues she's dealt with before (being uncomfortable with being in a family beside Henry, running away, not wanting to deal with fairy tale stuff), and her character didn't change the whole time until the finale. All the lessons she had learned through S1, S2, and 3A were negated just for the almighty plot.

 

I understand Emma being happier in New York and having a false security there, but they never showed her Storybrooke side. She was written as being one-minded, instead of "we are both". Again, it wasn't Emma as a character's problem, but the writing. The resolution didn't really do any justice, either. A lot of holes were left unfilled.

Edited June 7, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[sharky]

I think the problem with that is that the show came back after a few months and Emma's amnesia was quickly cured. But remember that she spent an entire year in NYC with no memory of Storybrooke. I think she probably had some leftover issues when it came to seeing the life she could live so I can definitely see a backslide on her part.

Of course this goes back to the somewhat annoying issue with this show that the timeline is nothing close to being relative to real life. After all, Emma was only back in Storybrooke with her memories for maybe 10 days -- if that. It's hardly enough time for her to accept all of what happened.

[Emma]

Yeah, it's all about the poor execution. They had plenty to work with and Jennifer is more than capable of delivering. The frustrating thing is that it wouldn't have taken more than a tweak here and there to make it work. And it wouldn't have taken away from the precious time Woegina needed instead.

[YaddaYadda]

All you have to do is see the scene in the finale when Hook and Emma are finally kissing. The words they used from Gold over that had nothing to do with accepting home and everything to do with letting down the walls.

 

Well Gold's monologue when it cut to Emma and Hook was about how HE (Hook) broke down her walls, which I find to be so contradictory of the whole I was with my parents and never missed them more. 

 

Probably looking too much into it. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[Camera One]

when it cut to Emma and Hook was about how HE broke down her walls, which I find to be so contradictory of the whole I was with my parents and never missed them more.

The episode and arguably the entire third season in regards to Emma's arc was more about Emma and Hook than about Emma and her parents, which they just want to give lip service to. Once again, it shows the writers' priorities and what they care more about. It would have been possible to do both. As Emma said, even minor tweaking would have made it a whole lot satisfying.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

The episode and arguably the entire third season in regards to Emma's arc was more about Emma and Hook than about Emma and her parents, which they just want to give lip service to. Once again, it shows the writers' priorities and what they care more about.

I'm not one to complain about Emma/Hook because I'm pretty much in love with the couple and a complete goner when it comes to Hook, but I'd like the writers to actually develop Emma's relationship with her parents.  I like the small progresses with David/Emma and honestly, it seems a lot more organic and I find Emma to be really her father's daughter more than anything else.

 

She says the reason she's staying in Storybrooke is because of her parents and whatever crap Neal fed her along the way, but I beg to differ on that point.  I get the impression from everything that Hook was an even bigger motivation to stay. 

[KingOfHearts]

There seems to be a major difference between what the writers want the viewer to believe, and what actually happened...

On the bright side, hopefully the climax in 3B means she's on the path to accepting herself as a fairy tale character. In my deepest wishes, she'll be working on her relationships with the citizens of Storybrooke as well. In 3B she saw it as short term, but now it's long-term. Meatier character interaction, I wait for thee!

Edited June 7, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

She says the reason she's staying in Storybrooke is because of her parents and whatever crap Neal fed her along the way, but I beg to differ on that point.  I get the impression from everything that Hook was an even bigger motivation to stay. 

I agree that is the story they told, but I don't think it's the story they think they've told.  I think we are supposed to accept that because Emma's opened herself up to Hook, and spent those few days trailing after her parents in fairybackville that her relationship with her parents is fixed--because the writers seem to think Emma was the main problem in that relationship.

[stealinghome]

The episode and arguably the entire third season in regards to Emma's arc was more about Emma and Hook than about Emma and her parents, which they just want to give lip service to.

I don't totally disagree, but I have to say that I was actually pleasantly surprised that Emma's decision to stay in Storybrooke in the finale was more about her parents and not really about Hook. Like, I think she would have stayed regardless of whether she and Hook were going to become a thing--and if her parents had suddenly dropped dead, I don't think Hook would have been enough to entice Emma to stay. The writers did a decent enough job, I think, portraying Emma's relationship with her parents and her relationship with Hook as two separate (though obviously somewhat related) things--like on parallel but not the same tracks. And frankly, I was ready for it to be All About Captain Swan, so it was a pleasant surprise for me that it was about her family at the end of the day (in part because I've always said that Emma's real happy ending is her family, not romance per se). The problem is just that, in different ways, both stories were under/not well written.

 

This is where the badness of Season 2 really frustrates me, because if S2 had been much better at developing Emma's relationship with Snowing, it would have been much easier for me to buy her about-face in the finale. Throughout 3b, I really kept thinking that Adam and Eddie were trying to build a house on what was essentially a weak foundation. If Emma had had a better relationship with her parents than she seems to, I think 3b would have resonated a lot more. But it constantly felt like the show was trying to sell me on Emma being closer to her parents than she actually has ever been (through no fault of Snow's, Charming's, or Emma's). The frustrating thing was that Season 2 was the time to build that foundation, but we all know how that went (it didn't). So...I don't know. The actors sell the hell out of what they're given, particularly in the David-Emma relationship, so I tend to find individual scenes fulfilling, but it's all built on such quicksand that the Big Picture just doesn't work. I will say that, like with Regina at the end of S2, the writers just cannot go back to the well of "Emma has walls! She doesn't let people in!" anymore. After this half-season, that needs to be done.

 

I like the small progresses with David/Emma and honestly, it seems a lot more organic and I find Emma to be really her father's daughter more than anything else.

Oh, absolutely. From Day 1 it's been pretty clear to me that Emma is far more like David than she is Snow. It's why, I think, David gets her way more. (At this point, I hate to say it, Snow kind of drags both characters down. They're way more kickass when she's not around.)

 

But I also think that they seem more organic because a lot of the Snow/Emma stuff is reaching pretty contrived status. The last time I chatted with my parents, I said that I was more interested in Charming and Emma because the writers just seem determined to have Snow and Emma stuck in neutral or going backward, and even they--casual viewers--agreed with that observation. The frustrating thing is that I think that could make for an engaging and fulfilling subplot for a few episodes--Snow being like "I am so irrationally angry at Charming because his relationship with Emma is so easy and mine is so difficult!" and David having to be like "well, Snow, let's slow down for a minute and examine why"--but that would require taking Snow away from Regina Propping Duty for a few episodes, so you know that won't happen.

[Emma]

I know there are other things to fix but what do I have to do to get Emma a friend? Someone she can hang out with or lean on that isn't Hook or her parents?

[Camera One]

And frankly, I was ready for it to be All About Captain Swan, so it was a pleasant surprise for me that it was about her family at the end of the day (in part because I've always said that Emma's real happy ending is her family, not romance per se).

I was expecting the worse as well, so I generally felt relief, but for me, I felt it became about her family literally only at the end of the day, with Snow "dying". I just wasn't satisfied with that one event changing everything. There were some short, nice, precursor moments, such as Emma's expression when she first saw Snow and Charming in the Enchanted Forest, but it was too little for me.

said that I was more interested in Charming and Emma because the writers just seem determined to have Snow and Emma stuck in neutral or going backward

Because they had done little with Emma/Charming until S3, it was fresh and new and they could *start* building. With Snow, they started in S1 and so by now, they don't know how to continue to progress, so they regress, and as you said, they use Snow as a prop for the Regina redemption story. The writers felt they needed to go backwards with Snow/Emma to make this "There's no place like home" revelation work.

[stealinghome]

I know there are other things to fix but what do I have to do to get Emma a friend? Someone she can hang out with or lean on that isn't Hook or her parents?

Yeah, you know, that's a good question. We say this a lot, but the show has become really lacking in friendships, and probably the person who could use a friend more than anyone else is Emma. I didn't like the August character much, but that was a void that he (and Mary Margaret) filled pretty decently for Emma, but when the curse broke that void returned and hasn't been filled since.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind one of the Frozen crew being a friend for Emma, because I can't think of anyone currently on-canvas who could be Emma's friend first and foremost. We know they're bringing Michael Socha on, but I suspect that the Knave will be sucked into the Regina/Marian/Robin mess--and frankly, given that he's basically the same character as Hook, I feel like it would be kind of weird for him to become Emma's bestie.

[Camera One]

I know there are other things to fix but what do I have to do to get Emma a friend? Someone she can hang out with or lean on that isn't Hook or her parents?

I wish she could get a fully platonic friend too. In an interview when asked about Emma and friendships, Kitsis said that Hook was her friend.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Camera One