Emma Swan: 1000% done with your infuriating optimism

[Camera One]

I hated that line too.  Though sadly, I can totally see A&E having that haven't-been-said line at some point before the series ends.

[Emma]

Man. I wish I had your confidence that something will come of this mess. I've been waiting since Echo Caves and I still steam over that line by Snow about Emma forgetting about them.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Emma

[Camera One]

I have no confidence that anything will come out of this mess.  I only think Emma will come out of it looking justified and sympathetic to the audience (fingers crossed).

[KingOfHearts]

Lately, at least 3B onward, I feel the show is trying to make Emma closer with her family by denying who she used to be. Like it's wrong for her to be suspicious or realistic. She doesn't even get to use her investigative skills any more, just her magic. Now with her friendship to Regina, it's getting to be downright assassination. She's just not that tough blonde we saw in S1 telling a pregnant teen to make her own way or the woman who chopped down Regina's apple tree.

 

I understand that her walls are coming down and she's becoming more comfortable with her heritage. I just think it's going a little too far and taking away a lot of what was so awesome about her character in the first place. She's supposed to be grounding the show and bringing it back down to earth when it gets too sparkly. But I don't think the writing really accomplishes that when she's jazz-handing a monster or living in Lala Land with her parents where there's no problems.

[Dianthus]

Emma not realizing that she's Hook's Happy Ending...sigh. She just can't think of herself that way. It's still too new to her.

[FabulousTater]

Emma not realizing that she's Hook's Happy Ending...sigh. She just can't think of herself that way. It's still too new to her.

I know, right. It kinda breaks this old curmudgeons damn heart. How tragic is it that Emma's been let down, betrayed, abandoned, so many times over and over that she doubts that someone would think of her as their true happiness? That anyone would see her that way? It's so very sad that Emma's unable to accept it on faith because she's never had it. But it also makes how forthright, and true Hook is with Emma so much the sweeter.

 

I give this show and the writers epic loads of crap on a regular basis for a lot of their garbage writing, but every once in a while they handle Emma and her relationship with Hook so well that I have to give them (and the actors, because NGL I think 80% is just Jennifer Morrison -- and Colin O'Donoghue -- selling the hell out their scenes. I'm convinced JMo and Colin could sell ice to eskimos) credit for doing that well.

[buildmeupbuttercup]

I give this show and the writers epic loads of crap on a regular basis for a lot of their garbage writing, but every once in a while they handle Emma and her relationship with Hook so well that I have to give them (and the actors, because NGL I think 80% is just Jennifer Morrison -- and Colin O'Donoghue -- selling the hell out their scenes. I'm convinced JMo and Colin could sell ice to eskimos) credit for doing that well.

Agreed. The writing so often leaves much to be desired (last week's episode anyone?) but every now and then they have these magical scenes where I feel like Meg Ryan at the end of When Harry Met Sally "you say things like that and you make it impossible for me to hate you" and in those moments I become this show's bitch all over again. JMo and Colin have shown they can sell it even when they aren't given much to work with, but when they are given a scene like last night they just hit it miles out of the park. I may never be over JMo's single tear. He was crying, she was crying, I was crying and that scene felt like the culmination of four years in the making.

 

I get super pissed with the way the writers have botched a lot of the Charming family dynamic but dammit if it wasn't perfect last night that the lost girl, who always watched people leave and disappoint her and who had to hear her own mother say "but its' not what I wanted" about her, finally has someone who has always put her first say that she was his happy ending. And she was so surprised and blown away but she didn't run away. Yay for beautiful character growth!

[YaddaYadda]

I know, right. It kinda breaks this old curmudgeons damn heart. How tragic is it that Emma's been let down, betrayed, abandoned, so many times over and over that she doubts that someone would think of her as their true happiness? That anyone would see her that way? It's so very sad that Emma's unable to accept it on faith because she's never had it. But it also makes how forthright, and true Hook is with Emma so much the sweeter.

 

It's like Emma who has had these self-worth and self-doubt issues, she is actually very much whole with him.  It's like he's the super glue to her broken pieces and vice versa.  I didn't think she didn't know what he was going to tell her about what his happy ending was, I thought she was scared that she was wrong about what it was and that whatever it was would just take him from her.

 

Hook has laid it on the line for her more often than not, he is sort of eloquent with his words and in the way he expresses his feelings and telling her he loves her without ever telling her he loves her and he basically sold his ship to be able to just see her again with no guarantee that she would reciprocate his feelings especially after a year and her not remembering who he was and she had moved on with her life.

 

And while Hook expresses himself through words, she does it through action.  Emma is an action person.  She drank the potion after he told her that maybe there was someone else she loved in the life she lost.  That was like the final push towards that.  She gave up her magic which was supposed to save her sibling and the town from Zelena to save his life.  And there's more between that and what happened yesterday.  

 

She absolutely broke my heart the way she was looking back at him, anticipating but scared, how her eyes just filled with tears and then that one tear when they kissed (and she's the one who initiated that).  There's this man who loves her and she is enough for him the way she is.  He doesn't care that she is the Savior, he doesn't care that she is a princess, he doesn't care about her past and the things she has done and he doesn't sit there in judgement of her.  It's warts and all, not just for him, but for her too.  She has shown her feelings, clear as day.  When you choose to see the best in someone and not give up on them, when you believe in them 1000% that they will be able to fix the mistake they made and defend them when they're being slighted the way Hook was by David, I don't really need her to say "I love you" to him to know how she feels about him.

 

I'm enjoying her character growth, I'm enjoying his character growth (please don't talk about the book again, Hook, thanks!).  This relationship is one thing the writers are sort of doing right.  Yeah, Hook has held the idiot ball for being cursed and all, but I thought that yesterday's episode sort of erased that a little bit.

 

Honestly though, I'm already feeling sort of gutted for Emma after the previews we saw.

[OnceUponAJen]

I really do stay with this show for Hook and Emma and how beautifully their romance is written. It's sort of old-fashioned and epic at the same time, and it hasn't been hyper-sexualized. Hook was all in for her pretty early. The man makes up his mind and goes after what he wants whole-heartedly, but he's patient and has given Emma the time and space to make up her own mind about him. It's been respectful and sweet in a way I wouldn't have expected. I will come back for that all day long!

[Rumsy4]

Beautifully put, Yadda Yadda. These two idiots are the main reason I'm still watching this stupid show. haha. 

[Souris]

These two idiots are the ONLY reason I'm still watching this stupid show!

[FabulousTater]

Word to your post, YaddaYadda.

 

Honestly though, I'm already feeling sort of gutted for Emma after the previews we saw.

Same. And from what I can tell the writers are doubling-down on how painful this just might get for Emma. Which makes me apprehensive on two levels.

 

On one level, after the writers have built up this huge Snowing secret are keeping from Emma and which thus far has been implied will have a big nasty impact on Emma, it damn well better be really bad. Not that I’m for constant character angst, but JFC, this show has hyped up so many stories for them to fizzle out in the end and ultimately mean nothing that I’m at the end of my rope with it. And as someone who only watches this show either through youtube clips or fast forwarding through the episode if I happen to get a recording of it, saying the end of my rope means The end. Of. The damn. Rope.

 

The fallout from Ingrid pushing Emma’s buttons and Snow pouring gasoline on it and lighting a match with her reactions, wasn’t even a blip on the radar after Elsa convinced Emma that she just needed to love herself. Which sure, great message, but also, way to ignore all the problems with her parents that are at the root of Emma’s meltdown, show. *one finger salute for you, writers*! So time to put-up or shut-up, writers. If you’re gonna make Snowing look like total parental asshats, this better be good and it better have consequences that fundamentally change Emma’s relationship with them well into next season if not forever.

 

On the next level, within the story itself, I’m apprehensive for Emma herself because if Snowing’s secret is as bad for Emma as is being implied, this could be absolutely devastating for her. The Emma we see now is no longer the Emma that side-eyed everyone that entered her life and expected them to let her down or betray her because it was a day that ended in ‘y’. Despite a lifetime of terrible experiences that have taught her to not trust and that the best way to protect herself is to insulate herself, Emma has emotionally opened herself up to her parents and to Hook. She’s not wearing her “armor” around them anymore. So if Snowing’s secret is as bad as it has been built-up to be, it’s going to be like a knife in the gut, right in the soft, exposed underbelly. And for a character that’s had nothing but a lifetime of getting stabbed in the back, being hurt by those she thought she could trust to not hurt her, and always living with the knowledge that she's never been enough for those that claimed to love her (ya, I'm looking at you, Snow, for that one. #StillMadAboutEchoCaveAndNeverLettingItGo2k15), this one more blow coming from her very own parents, that she finally felt that she could trust completely, without question and without hesitation, well, because of that it will make all of this all the more devastating for her.

 

The bright side is that, as you said in another thread, YaddaYadda (I think it was you) is that all this stuff with Emma and her issues with her parents is really a can of worms that should've been opened up and vigorously shaken out until empty ages ago. So here's hoping Emma is allowed to purge herself of all these feelings she has (IMO suppressed and willfully ignored) in regards to Snowing in a nice long, loud, *mic drop* worthy rant.

 

 

[YaddaYadda]

Everytime I think about this secret and the lies, I think about what Ingrid told Emma at the station because she pretty hit the nail on the head and if she hadn't, Emma would not have reacted the way she did.  Emma is someone who is very much in control of herself and her emotions, but Ingrid went after every single one of her insecurities and everything that has never been addressed in the show and I still maintain that it was done for the a reason.  Ingrid at the station is a retread of the Echo Cave.  It's the Echo Cave but spoken by someone else who is pointing out every single thing that has been done wrong to Emma by her parents, from the moment she was born until that very moment.

 

The single one line though in all of this is "They can't love you if they don't understand you".  Yes, she was talking about Emma's magic and the whole Savior name being attached to that.  Ingrid's experience was that her sisters didn't love her because she was different from them, that they feared her because she was different from them.  I think we can argue that it's not necessarily the case for Emma's parents (although, sometime I do wonder if I'm being perfectly honest).

 

But a child who is born evil, that is something Snowing (and especially Snow) wouldn't understand nor accept.  The reason Snow (and let's make abstraction of her mommy issues) still loved Regina through her evil phase was because Snow knew Regina before she went there, so it makes it harder for her to turn her back on her.  She had countless chances to end the woman, but instead, she offered her pardons and let her walk away and whatever else.  She got why Regina became what she became no matter how contrived the reason was.

 

But Snow's own baby being evil and growing up to possibly terrorize the kingdom, that's something Snow not only doesn't want, but doesn't understand either.  How can she and David, two good people make an evil child?  If we go by Ingrid's logic and the show's logic, then Snow(ing) could never fully love her child because...well evil.  

 

I think they're about to throw everything at Emma.  I think with Emma, it's not about what the lie is though she does care about that, it's the fact that something is being kept from her.  With Hook, she told him that it was not okay for him to lie to her.  And it wasn't.  

 

And as much as she sees Hook for exactly who he is, the good, the bad, the ugly, Emma has chosen to bury her head in the sand when it comes to her parents.  I mean yeah, she did the passive-aggressive thing before she decided she had finally found home but all of this season, she decided that she would just bury her head in the sand and give her parents the benefit of the doubt on everything.  Looks like that's going to come back and bite her in the ass in a very serious way.

 

But all that being said, I hope there are fireworks and lots of them.  I wanna see the roof explode off the loft because Emma is laying into her parents before she picks up her things and leaves.  Because please Emma, don't just give them the cold shoulder, just move out.

[Joanh23]

Yeah it looks like it's all going to hit the fan next episode. I want Emma to really let rip at her parents and give them a few home truths. I'm already feeling sorry for Emma but damn it will make for some good tv. I will give the writers some bonus points if Killian also calls them out for lying to Emma.

[KAOS Agent]

The single one line though in all of this is "They can't love you if they don't understand you".  Yes, she was talking about Emma's magic and the whole Savior name being attached to that.  Ingrid's experience was that her sisters didn't love her because she was different from them, that they feared her because she was different from them.

 

I think this is the biggest issue for Emma with most people in town. I don't actually see it as her magic setting her apart, but rather the entirety of her life. She's different from everyone in Storybrooke. She grew up in a world without fairy godmothers, where True Love is scoffed at and where everyone is generally considered equal. Emma is independent, cynical, pragmatic and extremely capable. She's faced infinite betrayal, understands that random strangers shouldn't be trusted and has a general outlook on life that everyone is out for themselves. Snowing really don't understand this outlook. They chastise Emma for having a tendency to look at the negative because they don't get why she is that way. And I think they do in some ways fear it because they see her negativity as an indication of her dark side rather than as a reasonable protective action against a world that has greatly harmed her.

 

If you want to go further with Ingrid's comments, you could also pull out the part about Snowing's relief that Baby Snowflake was born normal. Ingrid was talking about magic, but there are now indications that Snowing feared their evil child and went to extreme lengths to "fix" that. They must have been extremely relieved when Glinda talked about the pure heart of their new baby in utero. No need to fear that he'll be Baby Evil like Emma. Emma was supposedly different before she was even born and they were scared of what that could mean. So now Emma is a woman that they had no hand in raising, whom they don't understand and whom they feared before she made her way into the world. Rather than trusting that Emma is actually a good person who just has a different way of thinking, they default to OMG EVIL when Emma has an emotional reaction to something. That is a recipe for disaster when this all comes out. 

Edited March 25, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[YaddaYadda]

If you want to go further with Ingrid's comments, you could also pull out the part about Snowing's relief that Baby Snowflake was born normal. Ingrid was talking about magic, but there are now indications that Snowing feared their evil child and went to extreme lengths to "fix" that. They must have been extremely relieved when Glinda talked about the pure heart of their new baby in utero. No need to fear that he'll be Baby Evil like Emma. Emma was supposedly different before she was even born and they were scared of what that could mean. So now Emma is a woman that they had no hand in raising, whom they don't understand and whom they feared before she made her way into the world. Rather than trusting that Emma is actually a good person who just has a different way of thinking, they default to OMG EVIL when Emma has an emotional reaction to something. That is a recipe for disaster when this all comes out.

 

Yes!  So much of this.  I was going to look for that exact line that you posted because I could not remember how it went.

 

Man, Emma had the odds stacked against her before she drew her first breath.  I don't know what the show's intent was to make me hate Snowing, but if that's what it was, I'd like to give them a standing ovation because I really hate them for what's about to happen.  They never gave her a chance.  

[YaddaYadda]

I thought of something.

 

Regarding Rumple, back in season 2 after Emma and Snow came back from the EF and Emma confronts him about her magic and basically talks about how her life has always been manipulated (which he scoffs at), he told Emma that he was just taking advantage of who she is, the product of true love.  So now, according to Maleficent, that can go either way, she can be the greatest hero, or the greatest villain. 

 

Rumple is doing a lot of ridiculous things these days.  Did he do something to that potion in order to use either Emma's goodness or Emma's darkness as it suits him?  I mean he basically sent the Chernabog after her, I'm guessing he needed confirmation about what he already knew about Emma.  And now he is seeking to darken her heart because well, reasons and all.  I wouldn't even be surprised if he tinkered with stuff when he included her as the Savior, just in case, for rainy days.

 

As KAOS Agent brought up upthread, Glinda told Snow that she held two pure hearts instead of her just one (hers).  Nobody tempered with Do Over.

[Serena]

Video of Jen's FanExpo panel.

[YaddaYadda]

I love how Jen always thinks about her answers.  And her getting emotional to the point of tearing up when she was talking about the stories she read about people who survived the foster care system...how can anyone give this woman a hard time?  And how can anyone not care about Emma?  There's a reason that when Emma cries, I feel all choked up and ready to bawl too.

 

Emma should be the heart of this show, period.  

Edited April 6, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

Jen is such a classy and intelligent person. Of all the main cast I believe meeting her would be the most rewarding.

[ABitOFluff]

Jen also comes across as a very positive person, which she seems to be bringing into her characterization of Emma, i.e. choosing to see the best in people. I read a piece she wrote on her parents who were band teachers at her high school and always worked to bring out the potential they saw in their students, and how she lives by their philosophy. I was very touched by it.

 

Also, she's a homegirl of mine. She apparently grew up in the town next to the one I did.

Edited April 7, 2015 by ABitOFluff

[Dani-Ellie]

Just got the chance to watch the above video of the panel. There are no words for how much I absolutely adore her.

[Emma]

Jen should give an interview once a month. I'd say once a week but that's the greedy side of me talking.

She's just so thoughtful with her answers. Plus I just love hearing her thoughts on it all.

[KAOS Agent]

Those were some really great fan questions about Once/Emma. I really like how the writers have incorporated Jen's self created backstory for Emma into the show. Emma has always been seen to have an interesting relationship with food which Jen has stated was a deliberate choice on her part from the beginning. Then this season, we get her stating in dialogue why she eats the way she does. Jen says foster kids often collect small objects with meaning and that's why she has the shoelace, but we also saw all of those tiny little objects young Emma collected in the box Hook went through. The mood ring, Neal's picture, her glasses and a bunch of other seemingly random things were saved. It's such a nice touch, but I have a feeling none of this would have happened without Jen putting so much effort into creating the character of Emma.

 

I also think it's interesting that she specifically says that in her version of Emma's path through the foster system that Emma was abused and that she seems to have pulled specific instances and situations from real people to create Emma's life story for herself. I wish that maybe they would spell some of this out a little better since Mary Margaret in Season 1 seemed to believe that the foster system wasn't all that bad. Does Snow really understand Emma's life as a child? If she did know the truth would it help her to better understand her daughter's attitude and general philosophy about life? I often see people getting on Emma's case for being mean to her mother or rejecting her and it does a real disservice to the character of Emma to not lay out some more definitive experiences that explain why Emma isn't jumping with joy about having a mother now.

[Mari]

Those were some really great fan questions about Once/Emma. I really like how the writers have incorporated Jen's self created backstory for Emma into the show. Emma has always been seen to have an interesting relationship with food which Jen has stated was a deliberate choice on her part from the beginning. Then this season, we get her stating in dialogue why she eats the way she does. Jen says foster kids often collect small objects with meaning and that's why she has the shoelace, but we also saw all of those tiny little objects young Emma collected in the box Hook went through. The mood ring, Neal's picture, her glasses and a bunch of other seemingly random things were saved. It's such a nice touch, but I have a feeling none of this would have happened without Jen putting so much effort into creating the character of Emma.

 

I also think it's interesting that she specifically says that in her version of Emma's path through the foster system that Emma was abused and that she seems to have pulled specific instances and situations from real people to create Emma's life story for herself. I wish that maybe they would spell some of this out a little better since Mary Margaret in Season 1 seemed to believe that the foster system wasn't all that bad. Does Snow really understand Emma's life as a child? If she did know the truth would it help her to better understand her daughter's attitude and general philosophy about life? I often see people getting on Emma's case for being mean to her mother or rejecting her and it does a real disservice to the character of Emma to not lay out some more definitive experiences that explain why Emma isn't jumping with joy about having a mother now.

Yes.  Absolutely.  I've stated it before--but Morrison is spot on with this.  It's very impressive how well she's managed to plot it all out in her head, and how accurate her picture likely is for someone in that situation.

 

If Emma was a kid who was moved around and didn't really stay places longer than six months, there were reasons--and not "She's in the foster system."  reasons.  The foster system gets a bad rap, but they really do try for stability.  They don't move kids unless there's not really another choice.  Some foster kids are with the same family for years---and these are kids with actual parents who are alive and have visitation rights, not a girl with absolutely no family whatsoever.

 

Emma doesn't seem to have been a substance abuser, which would have been one reason for her to be moved around and then on the streets.  (Kids often know they won't pass their UA's and just don't go back until they're caught.) 

 

That pretty much means that she had serious, serious behavior and attachment issues that kept her moving around.  One of the things that cause serious, serious behavior issues is abuse--and being a kid who moved around from foster home to foster home would mean she was a prime target for predators, because she wouldn't trust anyone (even in her home) to report the abuser.

 

She gets abused.  The behaviors get worse.  She gets moved.  She gets abused . . . and  put horrible, creepy pattern on repeat.

[YaddaYadda]

I wish they would delve more into young Emma while not trying to push some plot point like her meeting Lily for instance.  The first flashback of Emma that we got in 321 when that little girl was adopted and Emma's foster mother (or I'm thinking it was a straight up orphanage actually), she seemed kind and she told her not to worry and that she would find a home too.  I'm guessing she ran to Minnesota after that and met Lily and then landed with Ingrid.

 

She wasn't even going to spend the night at Ingrid's because she was bullied right off the bat by that boy (I think his name was Kevin).  It couldn't have been easy being the new kid in a new home, having to start your life over and over, changing schools.  How many times has she changed schools?  It's hard to form healthy attachments, it's hard to not feel anxious all the time about what's going to happen, having your choices be completely taken away from you even at a young age.  

 

It's sad that the most stability she had was when she was in jail.  She had a roof over her head and 3 square meals a day even though I'm not sure how that went and how it affected her on an emotional level, but it certainly seemed to have scared her straight and enough to want to turn her life around.

[Mari]

I wish they would delve more into young Emma while not trying to push some plot point like her meeting Lily for

It's sad that the most stability she had was when she was in jail.  She had a roof over her head and 3 square meals a day even though I'm not sure how that went and how it affected her on an emotional level, but it certainly seemed to have scared her straight and enough to want to turn her life around.

 

Yes.

 

The other thing--I know teen prison has as bad a rap as foster care, and I'm sure that some places are bad.  But they're not, all.  The kids are pretty closely monitored to make sure they're safe, and there are a lot of programs in the facility and for transitioning that I'm not sure people realize exist.

 

The correctional center in my state has a high school right on grounds.  It's beautifully equipped, and offers classes some of the smaller schools in my state just don't have a budget or staff for.  Kids are very strongly encouraged to finish high school, and most want to, not only because, well, better jobs are available, but because it gives them something to do.

 

If they're behind enough that finishing high school isn't feasible before they age out, they're strongly encouraged--and have tutors--to get their GED.  If they have their GED or high school diploma, online classes are often available.

 

And that's not including all of the counseling services that the kids are exposed to and evaluated for.

 

There are also several transition programs, that would have helped her after she got out with things like finding a job, finding an apartment--helping finance the apartment, if necessary . . .

 

It is horribly sad that it was probably the best and safest she was for most of her childhood, and I am not saying that Neal and August did the right thing when they set her up and abandoned her.  That was awful. 

 

But it did give her safety, allowed her to finish her education, and give her a motive to chase after the bad guys.  (Because it's likely part of the reason was she was chasing Neal.  Whether to find him, or whether to get back at him, or a mix.).

 

(Sorry.  I know I'm going on and on, but this is kind of adjacent to what I do.)

 

 

ETA:

YaddaYadda,

If what I wrote came across as a rebuke, or a pointed rebuttal--I'm truly sorry.  I wasn't thinking you were criticizing the system, or had an unrealistic image--I honestly was just trying to agree with your point and elaborate on what type of conditions were likely for someone in Emma's position.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Mari

[YaddaYadda]

I'm not saying that these places are horrible.  A while ago, I was doing volunteer work at a children's hospital and there was a 2 year old foster kid getting cancer treatment.  She was removed from her mother's care because usual story, drug addict and what have you.  Her foster mother was about the kindest person ever.   So, not all foster parents are what we see on Law and Order: SVU.  And I know juvi usually has something complementary where the kids finish school or get equivalency for that.

 

I think we're all sort of looking at the Emma context and what JMo came up with as Emma's sort of background.

 

They've completely exhausted the Enchanted Forest flashbacks with Regina and Rumple and Snowing.  Can we learn something about Emma's experiences and why she I don't know, chose her line of work for instance?  

[KAOS Agent]

There does seem to be a hesitancy to paint the foster system in too bad of a light and I can understand this. I thought the show did a good job of showing that even when in a decent home with a foster parent that did care about Emma, there were other problems - namely Kevin the bully. Foster kids are in the system for a reason. Their lives had to be seriously messed up to remove them from their parents' custody (I had a friend who used to work for the system and when I asked for advice about some kids living in a situation I found highly worrisome, she told me no one would remove those kids unless one of them went out in a body bag). This does not lead to well adjusted kids. It leads to kids with serious psychological damage who are used to doing whatever is necessary to survive. Put those kids into the same home and you've got a recipe for disaster. Mix in a few foster parents who are mostly in it for the money and who are not at all interested in dealing with things that aren't easy and it gets worse. 

[YaddaYadda]

YaddaYadda,

If what I wrote came across as a rebuke, or a pointed rebuttal--I'm truly sorry.  I wasn't thinking you were criticizing the system, or had an unrealistic image--I honestly was just trying to agree with your point and elaborate on what type of conditions were likely for someone in Emma's position.

 

Gosh, no!  I did not take this personally or anything like that.  I thought it was an interesting read actually.  

[regularlyleaded]

I wish they would delve more into young Emma while not trying to push some plot point like her meeting Lily for instance.

They've completely exhausted the Enchanted Forest flashbacks with Regina and Rumple and Snowing.  Can we learn something about Emma's experiences and why she I don't know, chose her line of work for instance?

1000% agree.

 

I've been wanting, waiting, and pleading to the TV Gods for the show to delve into Emma's childhood, adolescence, or post incarceration life, and show us some of her experiences (as a bounced around, possibly abused, foster kid, as a street kid, as a bail bonds person etc.) all of which inform who she is today (Or at the very least for scenes where Emma's experiences are discussed with some depth instead of glossing over it and forgetting about it five minutes later). And also for someone, anyone, to share that info with Snow and David because as it stands they don't seem to know anything about her past and seem to have less than zero interest in learning anything about Emma's life (and that, frankly, just blows my mind).

 

I've been wanting all of this so badly since the start of season 2. But, I officially gave up on it ever coming to fruition after 4A (and to be completely honest, I gave up on the entire show after 4A). 

 

After those pieces of information from Ingrid and Emma's past in the foster system came to light in 4A I thought "Yes! The show is finally going to go there. Finally!" But alas, they didn't go there. They avoided it like you avoid the plague, and that refusal to deal with it and explore that story, which I feel is so very rich with potential, it's all just so unbelievably infuriating that I just....Gah! I gave up.

 

I've come to the conclusion that Emma's backstory is an area that the writers are never going to flesh out and it will only be lightly touched upon when it's connected to plot point fairytale character #92837492834.

 

*le sigh* So much wasted potential...

[Camera One]

To me, this whole Emma-had-great-potential-for-evil plot isn't even about Emma.  It's about setting up something for the villains to manipulate.  And in turn, the whole Snow/Charming baby secret thing also wasn't about them.  It was to reinforce a point about heroes and villains being a grayscale and setting up a trigger which could cause Emma to consider that dark side.  

 

It was similar to how they played 4A.  The "glimpse" into Emma's childhood was basically saying Emma has been screwed over by life, which we knew already.  So it was more to set up a motivation for Ingrid.  Then they had Snow being afraid of Emma, but that was solely used as a trigger to get Emma off by herself so she would be vulnerable to Rumple's machinations.  In the end, the Snow fear of Emma was tossed out like last week's garbage and not addressed again once it had done what it was intended to do.

 

The heroes consistently are used to further the plot.  Snow and Charming are basically a wet rag to move the cat from one place to another in the house.  Luckily, Emma hasn't been reduced to that quite yet, but who knows after 4B.  To me, it's all plot driving character, and that's not satisfying at all.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Camera One

[daxx]

of Jen's FanExpo panel.

Oh my gosh, she is amazing. We are so lucky to have this woman to play Emma.

[Curio]

I have a feeling none of this would have happened without Jen putting so much effort into creating the character of Emma.

Which is really sad, because this show was originally about Emma and her journey. Or, at least that's the message I got when I watched the first season. (I didn't read any Adam/Eddy interviews back then, so I only took the show at face value.) The fact that we had to wait until Season-fucking-Four just to delve into Emma's childhood shows where the writers' interests truly lie. I wish Cindy McLennan was still doing her recaps, because she was always great about reminding everyone that this show is so much better when it focuses on Emma's fairy tale.

 

I wish they would delve more into young Emma while not trying to push some plot point like her meeting Lily for instance.

They've completely exhausted the Enchanted Forest flashbacks with Regina and Rumple and Snowing. Can we learn something about Emma's experiences and why she I don't know, chose her line of work for instance?

Amen. If I never had to watch another Enchanted Forest flashback about Regina, Rumple, or Snow, I would not shed a single tear. It has gotten to the point where we have pointless scenes with Regina tearing down horse riding ribbons. I mean, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we finally got a little bit more insight into Emma's past in 4A, but it's still no where near the level of detail the writers have put into creating Regina, Rumple, and Snow's backgrounds.

 

Why haven't we gotten any flashbacks of Emma's daily life in jail? Or her struggle to keep up with school? Does she have her high school diploma or GED? (I'm honestly asking that one...it might have been said in Season 1 or something but I don't remember.) I'd love to see a flashback of Emma getting released from jail. Who did she talk to about getting her life back together? How did she get her life back together? Why did she choose bail bonds? How did that interview go, considering she has jail time on her record and no college education? How about those two years in Tallahassee? What did she do? Did she go to the beach to unwind? Did she make any friends that secretly weren't from the Enchanted Forest?

 

The fact that I have to ask so many questions about the lead character makes me want to get in my car, drive to California, and break into the Once writers room just to ask them what the hell is going on in there. And I don't want to hear the "but this is a fairy tale show, no one wants to see flashbacks about the real world" argument. That's crap -- the fact that Storybrooke exists completely destroys that argument. And with the plethora of ways people can portal hop on this show, it would be easy to have a season set up where the present timeline takes place in the Enchanted Forest while the flashbacks go the the real world.

 

I've come to the conclusion that Emma's backstory is an area that the writers are never going to flesh out and it will only be lightly touched upon when it's connected to plot point fairytale character #92837492834.

Yep. I keep holding out hope that maybe one day they'll get their act together and address it properly (AKA nothing like Breaking Glass please...), but I have a feeling this series will end and we'll still be lamenting what could have been.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Curio

[KAOS Agent]

And with the plethora of ways people can portal hop on this show, it would be easy to have a season set up where the present timeline takes place in the Enchanted Forest while the flashbacks go the the real world.

 

They don't even have to do that. Just have Emma the bounty hunter chasing down a story book character. Maybe he even gets away using a portal. This show always uses a hinge in their present vs past stories, so just have that character being the hunter in the present. It would be an easy way that they could present a bit of Emma's post jail life and still maintain some fun adventure in a real world setting.

Edited April 10, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Shanna Marie]

Random thing that occurred to me: Didn't Jen say at some point after we saw teen Emma wearing glasses that she believed Emma as a teenager couldn't afford contact lenses (because of that homeless and living on the street issue), but adult Emma wore contacts and that's why we didn't see the glasses anymore?

 

But then younger teen Emma didn't wear glasses.

 

So maybe they disregarded Jen's headcanon and the glasses were meant to be fake glasses, perhaps worn to make herself look older once she ran away from foster care so she wouldn't be dragged in by truant officers or otherwise be as obvious as a kid to authorities, so Emma never actually needed glasses but only wore them in that one phase of her life. They were in her box of treasures, which seems like they had some symbolism to her as representing a phase of her life -- like the sign of the time she decided she was an adult. If she'd really needed them all along, would they be that meaningful, or would they have been just another pair of glasses?

 

I'm probably overthinking this, and the glasses when we saw them were just about trying to make a clear visual distinction between present-day Emma and teen Emma.

[Curio]

Didn't Jen say at some point after we saw teen Emma wearing glasses that she believed Emma as a teenager couldn't afford contact lenses (because of that homeless and living on the street issue), but adult Emma wore contacts and that's why we didn't see the glasses anymore?

 

But then younger teen Emma didn't wear glasses.

 

I've never heard about that before, but I do like that head canon. Maybe it's the case where all Emma could afford at that age was a pair of ugly wire frame glasses, and her foster siblings made fun of her for wearing them, so she purposely didn't wear them and just walked around with bad vision so she wouldn't get teased. And then when she could finally afford a better pair of fashionable frames when she ran away, she began wearing them again.

 

So maybe they disregarded Jen's headcanon and the glasses were meant to be fake glasses, perhaps worn to make herself look older once she ran away from foster care so she wouldn't be dragged in by truant officers or otherwise be as obvious as a kid to authorities, so Emma never actually needed glasses but only wore them in that one phase of her life.

 

I could see that, too. I can also see us putting way more thought and energy into thinking about this than the writers ever have.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Curio

[KAOS Agent]

Runaway homeless teen Emma wouldn't have been able to afford or deal with contacts, but I don't see why foster kid Emma couldn't have had them. Optical care would have been paid for by the state, so that would not have been an issue.

[Camera One]

Or maybe she didn't need glasses yet.  I didn't start needing to wear glasses until after high school.

[kingshearte]

Or possibly she needed them, but no one ever paid enough attention to notice. It's amazing how awful your vision can be without you actually knowing, because it's deteriorated so gradually. Before I got my glasses, I thought my vision was just fine and perfectly normal, but my parents noticed that I couldn't read stuff that I ought to be able to, and got me glasses. Putting them on for the first time was like a revelation. If Emma had no one around paying enough attention to notice something like that, she could have gone for years assuming that her vision was more or less the same as everyone else's.

[Mari]

If Emma had no one around paying enough attention to notice something like that, she could have gone for years assuming that her vision was more or less the same as everyone else's.

This is a good point, and really true--I know kids with interested, invested parents who didn't really notice that their child's eyesight was not particularly good.  It would be a whole lot worse for a kid that was constantly moving.  (And had the same experience you did.  I remember being shocked after my first pair of glasses--which I hadn't realized I needed--when I could notice details from so much farther away.)

 

The only thing that might have caught it are the required health checks that kids in the system are required to have, but I don't know what year those became mandatory.

[Shanna Marie]

Or possibly she needed them, but no one ever paid enough attention to notice.

But how likely would it have been for it to be noticed when she'd run away and was living on the streets? Unless maybe she got the glasses right before she ran away.

 

Given that the glasses were in her box of mementos, I'm leaning toward the glasses being something she put on to make herself look older so she'd be less likely to be picked up by child services people or truant officers, so they were a reminder of that phase of her life. If they'd just been glasses she wore to see better, would she have kept them as a souvenir?

 

Then there's the fact that she spent all that time running around the Enchanted Forest in season two and Neverland in season three, which would have been interesting in contact lenses, unless she had super extended-wear lenses that never needed rewetting drops. (someday, a TV series will accurately and consistently portray contact lens use)

[Camera One]

Then there's the fact that she spent all that time running around the Enchanted Forest in season two and Neverland in season three, which would have been interesting in contact lenses, unless she had super extended-wear lenses that never needed rewetting drops. (someday, a TV series will accurately and consistently portray contact lens use)

 

Don't forget next season, we get an episode where we see Snow and Charming gouging people's eyes out so their baby will have 20/20 eyesight.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Camera One

[scarynikki12]

I just tell myself that she uses the daily lenses and keeps a few days worth in her jacket pockets in case of emergencies. 

[kitticup]

Maybe she got LASIK done

[The Cake is a Pie]

I swear to dog, back when I used to wear glasses and contacts, one of my phobias was that I would get stranded in the middle of nowhere with only the contacts I was wearing and they would dry out and I would effectively be blind. It was one of the motivating factors that drove me to get LASIK done.

I like to think that EMMA would have gotten LASIK, too, since her job as a bounty hunter of sorts would have required her to travel a lot and go on long stakeouts. Last thing she would have wanted to worry about was being able to see her targets. Plus, for show purposes they could just say she got it done, so her eyesight never really needs to be addressed again. I mean, does 1-800-CONTACTS even deliver to Storybrooke?

[MDKNIGHT]

I can't imagine the writers being able to convincingl explain a permanent radical shift in Emma's feelings for Snowing.  YES they lied and yes she should ber angry that they couldn't stay on the moral pedistal she had them on but come one. This is the person who effectively forgave Regina for attempting to murder her parents a hundred and fifty two times and is dating a guy who was a pirate and initially a foe who helped Cora nearly kill her and the other princesses.  By the time of his death she seems to have forgiven Neil for setting her up to go to prison while pregnant etc etc.  It just wouldn't make sense for her to be BFFing with Regina and not forgive her parents for screwing over an evil dragon lady especially since it was an isolated incident born of stupidity and fear rather than greed or revenge.  The other thing I think I'm going to have trouble with is does Emma not have free will ?  If she does, how will they "corrupt" her and if she doesn't, how is it they didn't do it already?

Edited April 13, 2015 by MDKNIGHT

[Dani-Ellie]

I'm reasonably sure Emma is going to forgive her parents, too. Right now that pain and anger are fresh. Last night's confrontation happened at most a couple hours after they told her the truth. I actually liked seeing her speak her mind rather than tamping all that down and compartmentalizing it.

 

I'm also reasonably sure she does have free will. After the whole thing went down with the egg baby, The Apprentice told Snow and Charming that it was their task to guide Emma to keep her on the light path. She may have been all sweetness and light to begin with due to in utero magic, but that didn't mean she couldn't become corrupted later on down the line.

[YaddaYadda]

She may have been all sweetness and light to begin with due to in utero magic, but that didn't mean she couldn't become corrupted later on down the line.

 

So here's my question because I've been thinking about this.  If Emma has the most potential for darkness, it means that she never tapped into it, no?  This is what I'm sort trying to understand.  She never tapped into it, but we know she would have when she wanted to shoot Pan, kill Zelena and later Ingrid.

 

Also regarding Emma being "friends" with Regina and dating Hook.  Our expectations of our parents are always up there.  We expect more/better from them.  And now that she is with Hook, she is also expecting better from him and that's why she didn't appreciate that he lied to her about knowing Ursula.  Hook's past is extensive and until he met her, he had never done anything to her directly.  And still, even when he met her, he didn't actively seek to hurt her or anything like that.  Regina, I doubt Emma has any expectations towards her other than to be a good mother to Henry. 

 

The problem with this show is that they decided to shove everything that Regina has ever done to Emma aside.  She actively sought to kill her when she was barely 5 minutes old and then there was all the stuff that happened in season 1 and 2 between them.  The show decided that none of that had happened.  So, whatever, show.

 

I think Emma does have legitimate reasons to be angry at her parents, they decided to change her before she even kicked for the first time.  She's hurt.  We've seen her pissed at Hook during most of 3B because he had taken her out of her life in NYC and she was especially pissed when it came out that Zelena had cursed him and he said nothing.  That nearly got Henry hurt.

 

Anyway...

[buildmeupbuttercup]

I definitely have no doubt Emma will forgive her parents considering she is very forgiving now. That said...I'm still hoping against slimming hope that this latest development will be the catalyst for hashing out the issues that have been brewing in the Charming family for the last three seasons. I'm not hopeful, considering the way these last couple episodes have transpired, but geez instead of shoving them offscreen before the title card can we have one episode where these three get locked in a room/mine shaft/ice cave/somewhere and have to actually talk their shit out? At this point Emma and Snow have about a U-Haul's worth of baggage to sift through and Charming is also complicit in this preserving her "goodness" mess.

 

In the episode thread, there has been a lot of discussion about all the exposition in the latest episode. So we waste a whole chunk of an episode talking and explaining, talking and explaining this latest "twist" but they can't devote time to properly resolving issues with the main family that have been three years in the making?

 

I just hate that Emma's reaction to her parents secret was a two-minute scene tacked on at the beginning of what otherwise could've been a stand alone episode, and that's after the "big" reveal was done offscreen.

 

Being an Emma stan and desperately wanting proper storyline resolutions for her is becoming more disappointing every episode with these writers .