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Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

Nick Burkhardt: He's Grimm

Actionmage

By Actionmage
in Grimm [V]

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Actionmage

Actionmage

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I have enjoyed seeing Nick's changes and where he refuses to change as his life gets weirder. David G. has a great tv face, in his reactions to things- even in the background- are fun to watch and in character, so you  feel you are watching a real person.(Nick is fake/David is real, I get that.)

It can't be an easy shoot, with all the stunts and prosthetics and weather during location shooting, but he seems like a happy ringleader or co-leader, which in turn makes watching this show fun.

Plus? He's pretty hot.

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Dianthus

Dianthus

I was/am a fan of BtVS. This show is close in spirit, and I really like it. I also appreciate the gender-neutral aspect of being a Grimm. I think it's better that way. I'm hoping they'll go that route in the Buffy comix.  

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SomeTameGazelle

SomeTameGazelle

Is Nick the only Grimm in forever who has Wesen friends? Because surely the Grimms should have figured out by now that they could wear sunglasses to keep from being recognised. (Actually I was thinking that maybe Nick should have planned to wear coloured contacts rather than going the sunglasses route, but whatever.)

 

So Nick's only true original Grimm power was the ability to recognise Wesen -- that and the research compiled (and weapons collected) by previous generations, which obviously are still in the trailer. His super speed/super strength were actually from the zombie coma (which doesn't explain why Trubel is such a good fighter). Also he developed super hearing from parasitic eye-worms (or the cure thereof). So did Adalind kill just the original Grimm recognition ability, or did she also obliterate the speed, strength, and hearing abilities?

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johntfs

johntfs

Is Nick the only Grimm in forever who has Wesen friends? Because surely the Grimms should have figured out by now that they could wear sunglasses to keep from being recognised. (Actually I was thinking that maybe Nick should have planned to wear coloured contacts rather than going the sunglasses route, but whatever.)

 

So Nick's only true original Grimm power was the ability to recognise Wesen -- that and the research compiled (and weapons collected) by previous generations, which obviously are still in the trailer. His super speed/super strength were actually from the zombie coma (which doesn't explain why Trubel is such a good fighter). Also he developed super hearing from parasitic eye-worms (or the cure thereof). So did Adalind kill just the original Grimm recognition ability, or did she also obliterate the speed, strength, and hearing abilities?

 

I'd say that yes, Nick is the first Grimm in a good long while to have Wesen friends, or at least friends willing to clue him in on how they recognize him and what he can do to prevent that.

 

I would assume that Adalind removed all his supernatural abilities.  Nick still has his police training and whatever skills he gained from sparring with Monroe.  He also still has his knowledge and access to the trailer o' knowledge and pointy things.

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Yeldarbe

Yeldarbe

Nick was already really good at fighting because he was a Grimm. The Zombie-ness only enhanced that. He got "cured" of that anyway, didn't he? I hope we get some clarification next season on what exactly Adalind took away from him. Actually I hope it only last an episide or two and he's back to his Grimmy self quickly.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

Right before being de-Grimmed, they have Juliette not wanting to marry him because of the Grimm chaos. Then, when the reveal comes in the car, she turns around with a look that, to me, seemed to say: I'm sorry. Sort of like when I took the snow shovel out of my car trunk, and then it snowed in May, and I felt guilty--not my fault that it snowed, but it just felt that way. So I thought it looked like Juliette wished she at least hadn't said she wished he wasn't a Grimm right before he was de-Grimmed. Anyone else interpret it that way?

If that's the correct interpretation, I could imagine a future situation in which Nick has an opportunity to get re-Grimmed, and a Grimm is needed to save lives, but he hesitates because he thinks it would ruin his chances with Juliette, but then Juliette tells him to do it. Or maybe he just does it anyway.

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johntfs

johntfs

Please, oh please spare us the drama of Nick having to choose being a Grimm vs. Being with Juliette. Do NOT want.

 

I don't think we'll exactly see that.  I really like Juliette because she is portrayed as a compassionate, practical, realistic person who is not given to making unreasonable demands.  I think that underneathe the craziness talk, what Juliette wants is more say so in decisions that affect both of them.  Nick's mom needs to call ahead before dropping an evil hexenbiest into their lives.  Nick needs to give Juliette at least a heads-up before bringing an unknown, murderous young woman to stay in their home with them.  Like that.

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Syme

Syme

(edited)

Nick's mom needs to call ahead before dropping an evil hexenbiest into their lives.

 

Nod; Juliette doesn't even know you she has a MiL-tobe to deal with; and then oops she drops in unannounced with the houseguest from hell in tow.

 

Talk about helicopter parents...

Edited by Syme
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SomeTameGazelle

SomeTameGazelle

(edited)

Nod; Juliette doesn't even know you she has a MiL-tobe to deal with; and then oops she drops in unannounced with the houseguest from hell in tow.

 

Talk about helicopter parents...

 

Juliette already knew Nick's mother was alive and at large in Europe because she had asked him who he was getting e-mails from. I think she even sent her some e-mail. She just hadn't met her yet until she showed up with Adalind.

Edited by SomeTameGazelle
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Syme

Syme

(edited)

 

Juliette already knew Nick's mother was alive and at large in Europe because she had asked him who he was getting e-mails from. I think she even sent her some e-mail. She just hadn't met her yet until she showed up with Adalind.

 

I was not being that literal. For the first N years of their relationship, they both thought Kelly was dead. Then he finds out otherwise; and far later, he tells her. To Juliette, that had to be a very rude surprise.

 

Then to have her appear, with the Bitch from Hell in tow.......

Edited by Syme
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Ottis

Ottis

(edited)
Nick was already really good at fighting because he was a Grimm.

 

 

Is he? And is it? My single biggest point of confusion on the show is what powers a Grimm has, beyond being able to see Wesen. Nick has taken some pretty good blows from Wesen, so I am assuming there is some added strength or something, but the show has never been clear on what makes him special.

 

My second biggest issue is why Capt. Renard was once a feared member of The Royals (we were led to believe) and yet doesn't seem to have any meaningful powers. In fact, he seems pretty weak compared to many varieties of Wesen.

 

My third biggest issue is Juliette, who need to die.

Edited by Ottis
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Syme

Syme

My second biggest issue is why Capt. Renard was once a feared member of The Royals (we were led to believe) and yet doesn't seem to have any meaningful powers. In fact, he seems pretty weak compared to many varieties of Wesen.

 

Has there been any foundation that Royals are physically superiour? I've assumed that they were merely humans with the rights parents al-la the House of Windsor.

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Dobian

Dobian

They have never been clear on whether grimms have any kind of super strength or super healing or anything.  On BtVS they were very clear about that from the start.  It seems that Nick is normal with the exception of being able to see a Wesen.  But why should that alone make Wesen fear him?  I would think that a gang of Wesen would just take him out since he doesn't have any special physical powers, at least not before he became a zombie.  I would imagine that they resolve Nick losing his powers pretty quickly in the new season, I'm sure by the second episode.

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beadgirl

beadgirl

 

I've always thought that grimms were better fighters and were stronger then the average human. I wish they would say for certain.

They haven't said so explicitly, but they've shown it with the way Nick has reacted to certain wesen effects  -- when he was temporarily blinded he permanently picked up super-hearing, and he retained a certain zombieness.  No human has reacted the same way, as far as we have seen.  That makes me think there really is something physically different about Grimms (beyond the seeing-wesen thing).  Maybe the writers have not been explicit about it because they want narrative flexibility.

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Actionmage

Actionmage

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It was cool seeing babyGrimm Nick in the flashbacks in the latest episode!  Not just the fluffier hair, but just how Nick moved  and reacted facially.

 

I wish there was a way to find a balance for Nick, between his openness and optimism and the current relentlessly dark and 'what fresh hell' feel from him.

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greenbean

greenbean

(edited)

I really wish Nick would get the crap beat out of him. Apart from being super arrogant, the way he wins every fight, is such a bore to me. He's never under any real physical threat. Making a lead so invulnerable is really poor writing, it's also annoying. He always wins everything and solves all the problems. Can he not lose at least once? Can there not be a character who truly gets the best of him?

Edited by greenbean
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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

I really wish Nick would get the crap beat out of him. Apart from being super arrogant, the way he wins every fight, is such a bore to me. He's never under any real physical threat. Making a lead so invulnerable is really poor writing, it's also annoying. He always wins everything and solves all the problems. Can he not lose at least once? Can there not be a character who truly gets the best of him?

 

He didn't exactly win at the end of Season 4...

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DeeDee79

DeeDee79

He didn't exactly win at the end of Season 4...

 

Agreed, OtterMommy. Nick spent the latter half of the 4th season getting the crap beat out of him both mentally & physically. Losing his mother, his girlfriend (who tried to kill him repeatedly!) and getting shackled to his enemy for at least the next 18 years doesn't scream "winning" to me.

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Actionmage

Actionmage

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The distaste over the Nick/Adalind storyline seems to be overlooking how DG is playing Nick.  The following is definitely MMV and strictly my opinion.

 

Since the season started almost immediately after last season's ending scenes, Nick has barely been allowed to grieve on-screen for his mom and Juliet ( despite what we feel, Nick has no idea what might be coming  and has reason to believe Juliet to be dead dead). Nick feels helpless about not stopping Teresa's kidnapping. Adalind is claiming her son is his and considers taking responsibility for the child what one does. (I was surprised that no sneaky blood-gathering-for-tests has been done yet, but I almost don't care currently.)  He looks at caring for Kelly, and by extention Adalind, an obligation.

 

The Kelly part he doesn't seem to mind so much, but I haven't seen real emotion in conjunction to Adalind this season. Nick's polite and considerate, but the hug from last episode took pains to show that Nick had no expression on his face when Adalind could not see it. Nick has a flat tone, generally, when talking to her. The sandwich-making/"Important Info Dump, Pay Attention" scene was an exception.

 

There is a lot wrong with the story, but Nick is not enjoying anything except maybe Kelly, but I'm not 100% convinced of that. Not that Nick couldn't be a great father when he felt ready/ didn't have it sprung on him, like a trap. Nick seems to be compartmentalizing everything and the "grieve for Mom and Juliet" seem to have been put on some high shelf in his Mind Palace. Nick seems fine at work- a normal, familiar setting that hasn't changed significantly. To protect Kelly, I think we are meant to agree on, includes Adalind.

 

Nick seems to emotionally and physically sag when he is genuinely alone with himself and away from everyone else.  Sadly, some of Giuntoli's better work is happening in a really crappy story.

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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

Nick seems to emotionally and physically sag when he is genuinely alone with himself and away from everyone else.  Sadly, some of Giuntoli's better work is happening in a really crappy story.

 

Having seen very little of Nick's interactions with Adalind this season (because, um, eewww!) I'm going to take your word for this.  There was a quote from DG circulating before the season started that there would be a Stockholm Syndrome element to this relationship--which I'm hoping there is because there has to be some explanation for all this.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

I haven't seen real emotion in conjunction to Adalind this season. Nick's polite and considerate, but the hug from last episode took pains to show that Nick had no expression on his face when Adalind could not see it. Nick has a flat tone, generally, when talking to her...

 

Nick seems to emotionally and physically sag when he is genuinely alone with himself and away from everyone else.  Sadly, some of Giuntoli's better work is happening in a really crappy story.

It's a relief to see I'm not the only one interpreting Nick this way.
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ShadowFacts

ShadowFacts

It would be quite helpful to have Nick say a word or two to Hank or Monroe, anyone, about what he is going through.  Maybe that will happen yet, with Teresa.  There was an interview where David said we would not be seeing Nick grieve because that would be boring to watch (boring may not have been the word he used).  Along with the hints at upcoming romance, I think we may continue to see what happened to mom Kelly and Juliette, and his feelings about it get pretty much glossed over. 

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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

It would be quite helpful to have Nick say a word or two to Hank or Monroe, anyone, about what he is going through.  Maybe that will happen yet, with Teresa.  There was an interview where David said we would not be seeing Nick grieve because that would be boring to watch (boring may not have been the word he used).

 

This supports my theory that this whole rapemance is simply because they creators think Nick has to have a girlfriend and since Juliette didn't "work out," they're just going to stick another available female character in that slot.  Adalind was available, so why the hell not?

 

A couple of big problems with this:

1 - Why the hell not?  BECAUSE SHE EFFING RAPED HIM!  And we have an entire series of history between these two characters hating each other--and not in that sort of obsessive hate way, but in that "I really never want to see you, get out of my life" hate.  Other than the time Adalind spitefully got her cat to scratch Juliette, Nick and Adalind have *never* sought each other out just for the heck of it. 

2- Why does Nick need to have a girlfriend?  It is possible for a straight, good looking man to not be in a relationship AND not be a man-whore.  It happens all the time  Let Nick be single and, since we're stuck with a baby, be a single dad for a while.  Then, hire some writers who can write believable female characters and have them write a new love interest.

 

Sigh....

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kathyk24

kathyk24

I don't want to see Nick as a single dad I think they are overused on TV. Adalind could decide to look for Diana and take Kelly with her. I think the writers don't want to show Nick grieving because they have no clue how to do it. They had no idea how to react to his rape.

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Darklazr

Darklazr

Adalind could get hit by a stray bullet and Nik could raise Kelly on his own.

 

Renard could find out Diana is Eric's which allows him now to devote his time to destroying the Royal families.

 

The above is a win win, IMO!

 

On a serious note, Claire Coffee should have been hired to play Juliette and not BT.   BT could have played Adalind and the character could have died at the end of season 1 and we would not be subjected to the baby rabies stories that I get tired of even on my daytime soap operas.

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ShadowFacts

ShadowFacts

(edited)

The baby is a big problem that they never should have introduced.  Nick knows what happens to Grimms, and this little guy has Adalind for a mother.  I agree we don't need a single dad scenario, and that Nick doesn't need to be involved with anyone at all.  Lots of times when people lose a partner to death, they aren't interested in pairing up again for years and years, no matter their age.  Hank and Wu and Renard are all seemingly happily single.  Let Monroe and Bud handle the happily married side of things, and leave it at that. 

Edited by ShadowFacts
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Actionmage

Actionmage

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Or Nick could do like his mom and get either his uncle or a cousin to raise Li'l Kelly. It's family, no one seems to know about Marie and Kelly's brother, outside of Nick and Season 2 writers, and non-Grimm families have this happen irl, so it's not some side-eye-deserving thing from Uncle Burkhart/ Cousin Burkhart's neighbors. The baby doesn't have to do a thing, neither does the Burkhart relative, just have a quiet life in OffScreensville.

 

Then Nick can get back to business of being the "Hippie" Grimm who doesn't automatically kill on sight. Unless TPTB are tired of that.

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bluvelvet

bluvelvet

(edited)

Well David did say in an interview that he wasn't playing "romance" in his scenes with Claire/Adalind this season.  I think Claire may have made a similar comment in one of her interviews. His POV is that Nick loves his son and want to protect him and that's what he's playing..  However the natural chemistry between the actors have popped up here and there so interpretations of their scenes vary, I have yet to see romance, I still see awkwardness.

Edited by bluvelvet
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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

Well David did say in an interview that he wasn't playing "romance" in his scenes with Claire/Adalind this season.  I think Claire may have made a similar comment in one of her interviews. His POV is that Nick loves his son and want to protect him and that's what he's playing..  However the natural chemistry between the actors have popped up here and there so interpretations of their scenes vary, I have yet to see romance, I still see awkwardness.

 

The actors may not be playing up the romance, but the show is (and, just in that is a huge problem...)  They--and I mean the show's official accounts--have been pushing the relationship pretty heavily on social media.

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spaulding

spaulding

Yeah, if it were up to me (and, frankly, it should be!) I would definitely go for your 3rd option, I just don't think the creative team will even consider that maybe "none of the above" is an acceptable answer.

 

Why do the writers feel that Nick has to be in a relationship?  His choices are terrible.

 

The writers wanted Grimm to be dark, but it's not working.  Even his relationships are dark. 

 

Anything that has to do with Nick's love life becomes centered in the show.  Everything is a reaction to his current relationship.  E.g., the tone of the show is awkward because of the Nick/Adalind relationship. 

 

I wish that show would emphasize his non-gf relationships.  He's calm when he's having dinner with his friends.  His relationship with Monroe has been the highlight of the show.  Or his relationship with Bud and the Eisbiber community. 

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Darklazr

Darklazr

Every man or woman has to have a pairing it is a soap opera staple or you're just twisting in the wind.  I, personally, don't see why Nick had to have a baby and a love interest at all at this point in his life.  Let Nick be single for more than it takes for a bath break during Grimm!

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spaulding

spaulding

Every man or woman has to have a pairing it is a soap opera staple or you're just twisting in the wind.  I, personally, don't see why Nick had to have a baby and a love interest at all at this point in his life.  Let Nick be single for more than it takes for a bath break during Grimm!

 

Babies ruin everything!  Relationships too!

 

Nick was supposed to be a different kind of Grimm.  He really wasn't an antihero.  But the show seemed to go down the path of tropes.  If the hero wasn't a loner or antihero, he has to have a girlfriend.  But a girlfriend isn't keep Nick calm and centered. 

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Actionmage

Actionmage

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Every man or woman has to have a pairing it is a soap opera staple

 

This isn't a soap opera. There has been occasional dips into more relationship-centric stories, like Juliet's coma and aftermath, but that should've told TPTB that that kind of tale wasn't a good fit for an extended arc. The fans were upset because the scripts made Nick- a typically smart guy- act like some idiot who never interacted with the world or media of any kind. Nick was railroaded into a "Jealous Boyfriend" role until he was told about the spells Renard used.

 

Nick was blindsided by Adalind, yes, but after Juliet taking a huff off the hat, Nick was mostly uninformed and reactionary. He failed to act in reasonable ways so the writing could get the big stuff that they thought was cool, like the burning of the Grimmabago.  So far this season, Nick's been allowed to grieve for a hot minute. Maybe the writers forgot that Nick didn't know what they did and deserved to find a way to deal with losing two important people he could not publicly grieve because there was no body and no reasonable explanation.

 

Dealing with the pregnancy? It straight up shouldn't have happened, no matter how dumb they want us to believe Adalind is. But getting mad at Baby Kelly is the same, imo, as getting mad at a real baby- they didn't ask for the situation. Babies don't ruin everything; how the writers write them in can be how some babies have hurt their shows. Actually, Baby Kelly hasn't really done much, just thrown up on Adalind, cry and think a phone was cool. The writers are bollocks-ing up the story.  Because Nick can't kill an intruder more efficiently from his cot in the bedroom?

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Darklazr

Darklazr

This isn't a soap opera. There has been occasional dips into more relationship-centric stories, like Juliet's coma and aftermath, but that should've told TPTB that that kind of tale wasn't a good fit for an extended arc. The fans were upset because the scripts made Nick- a typically smart guy- act like some idiot who never interacted with the world or media of any kind. Nick was railroaded into a "Jealous Boyfriend" role until he was told about the spells Renard used.

 

Nick was blindsided by Adalind, yes, but after Juliet taking a huff off the hat, Nick was mostly uninformed and reactionary. He failed to act in reasonable ways so the writing could get the big stuff that they thought was cool, like the burning of the Grimmabago.  So far this season, Nick's been allowed to grieve for a hot minute. Maybe the writers forgot that Nick didn't know what they did and deserved to find a way to deal with losing two important people he could not publicly grieve because there was no body and no reasonable explanation.

 

Dealing with the pregnancy? It straight up shouldn't have happened, no matter how dumb they want us to believe Adalind is. But getting mad at Baby Kelly is the same, imo, as getting mad at a real baby- they didn't ask for the situation. Babies don't ruin everything; how the writers write them in can be how some babies have hurt their shows. Actually, Baby Kelly hasn't really done much, just thrown up on Adalind, cry and think a phone was cool. The writers are bollocks-ing up the story.  Because Nick can't kill an intruder more efficiently from his cot in the bedroom?

 

Grimm acts like a soap opera with all of the bed hopping partners (Nik/Adalind and Renard/Juliette), who's the Daddy (Renard or Eric), back from the dead (Juliette), lies, betrayals, secrets, murders, ONS rape babies (Kelly Jr.), drugged for sex (Hank), etc.... kidnapped child, abort or sell child to the highest bidder, secret organization and spies, rich people doing good and evil...etc... sounds like a soap opera to me!

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spaulding

spaulding

The Nick and Adalind pairing is horrible.  Yeah, Adalind was a horrible hexenbiest who literally screwed Nick.  I don't give her a pass for her actions. 

 

Nick doesn't get a pass.  He and Mama Grimm kidnapped Adalind's baby.  He took it upon himself to decide what was the best course of action for Diana.  He isn't some hero. 

 

The relationship is distasteful, but both of them are terrible people.  I don't sympathize with either of them.  (I like Coffee, and she does the best with what she's given.  I couldn't care less about Nick or Giuntoli.)

 

I'll sound like an asshole, but I roll my eyes at their relationship.  I don't feel sorry for Nick for this situation, and I'm not going to put 100% of the blame for this relationship on her. 

 

I find him as insufferable as Juliette. 

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tpel

tpel

I find Nick insufferable a lot of the time, but I do want to defend him on the kidnapping-baby-Diana issue. He wasn't acting completely alone; he did have the consent of the man who was presumed to be the baby's father. Renard isn't exactly a paragon of virtue, but based on the evidence Nick had, he would be justified in thinking that Diana's father would better look out for her interests than would Diana's mother. Not saying that makes it OK -- I wouldn't give any of these people custody of a goldfish -- but the mom actually contracting to sell the child seems to be an instance where paternal authority trumps maternal. In the aftermath, when Adalind showed up and Nick just avoided her? That's when he went back to insufferable to me.

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Darklazr

Darklazr

The Nick and Adalind pairing is horrible.  Yeah, Adalind was a horrible hexenbiest who literally screwed Nick.  I don't give her a pass for her actions. 

 

Nick doesn't get a pass.  He and Mama Grimm kidnapped Adalind's baby.  He took it upon himself to decide what was the best course of action for Diana.  He isn't some hero. 

 

The relationship is distasteful, but both of them are terrible people.  I don't sympathize with either of them.  (I like Coffee, and she does the best with what she's given.  I couldn't care less about Nick or Giuntoli.)

 

I'll sound like an asshole, but I roll my eyes at their relationship.  I don't feel sorry for Nick for this situation, and I'm not going to put 100% of the blame for this relationship on her. 

 

I find him as insufferable as Juliette. 

 

I disagree.  Renard is the one that chose to give Diana to Kelly and to be honest the child should have died when Adalind got her powers back.  Adalind deliberately slept with Eric and Sean in order to SELL her baby to regain her powers.  Yes, Adalind eventually felt love for Diana, but she would have used that baby which is why Renard gave her to Kelly.

 

Did Kelly take advantage of the situation with Diana?  Yes!  I think Kelly saw a chance to be a mother again and she used the situation with everyone wanting Diana to her advantage.  Juliette also wanted Diana away from Adalind, so it was not just Nick, Kelly and Renard.

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tpel

tpel

There are two outcomes of the Diana situation that I would have liked. Sadly, neither is going to happen now:

 

1. Adalind learns that her baby was kidnapped by the Resistance. So she goes looking for the only Resistance member she knows: Meisner. Upon finding him somewhere in Europe, she learns that the Resistance does not have Diana. Adalind and Meisner continue to develop the relationship they started when Meisner rescued Adalind. They retrieve Diana from Kelly, who is willing to relinquish Diana to them when it becomes clear that Diana approves. Besides, Kelly is getting tired of dealing with a spooky infant; she comes back to Portland and mentors Trubel. Adalind, Meisner, and Diana live happily ever after (OK, probably not . . . Adalind and Meisner both do various violent things to other people, but they take good care of Diana), mostly off-screen. Renard occasionally makes amusingly cryptic remarks about Diana's developing powers, indicating that he visits her.

 

2. Elizabeth (Renard's mother) went off in search of her granddaughter. She finds Diana in Kelly's custody. Instead of fighting to the death, the two mature women decide to work together to protect the child they both care about. Since nobody would expect them to cooperate, they are able to make Diana virtually untraceable by trading custody periodically under the guise of fighting each other. Growing up with the tutelage of two such badass grannies, Diana becomes a force to be reckoned with . . . but not for several years, during which time she is mostly off-screen.

 

Either of these plot lines would tie up the Diana story in a fairly satisfying way, without sucking up much time from the major characters. The first one, of course, has the advantage of precluding Nadalind ;-)

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tpel

tpel

Heh -- yeah, that would work too, Darklazr! And it has the advantage of being consistent with current story-lines, whereas my ideas are not. Though I kind of like the more upbeat aspects of my suggestions, a hexenbiest bloodbath does have a certain appeal ;-)  I'm copying my post over to the "everything wrong with Grimm" thread, as it is more about missed opportunities than about Nick Burkhardt. 

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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

From the 514 thread:

 

I think Nick was done with Juliette after she set up his mother and neighbors to be slaughtered.

 

I actually don't believe this is the case.  Juliette was contrite about her part in Kelly's death--or at least she claimed ignorance.  Nick was unable to kill her and, when she tried to kill him, he told her he wouldn't fight back.  Then, when Trubel shot her and Nick believed she was dead, he was very broken up over it.  Fast forward to ep 1 of season 5 and he nearly has a breakdown when he hears her voice.

 

So, it really seems that Nick was FAR from done with Juliette....

 

...which is what makes all this Nadalind shit even more ridiculous (not to mention the fact that Nick seems unconcerned that Juliette has been brainwashed and is now working as an assassin....)

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tpel

tpel

I think Nick's character development has fallen victim to the show's arbitrary moral categories. For whatever reason, the writers wanted to make Nadalind happen, so they pretend that what Adalind did wasn't so bad. Similarly, the writers wanted Robo-Eve to happen, so they pretend that what what was done to Juliette wasn't so bad. And they hope the audience accepts these moral declarations, at least enough so that we don't find the other characters' reactions implausible. Nick is now following a script where what Adalind did was regrettable but not heinous, and where Juliette's transformation was just something that happened, and he is reacting accordingly. He's not the only one; the other characters seem to have drunk the kool-aid, too. At least with regard to Juliette/Eve they show some distrust for Hadrian's Wall.

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spaulding

spaulding

 

I don't think that Adalind's been forgiven.  I think that there's a lot of criticism that she's with Nick.  When Nick gets back with Juliette, there will be a lot of criticism too.  As hexenbiests, they're both manipulative and have done awful things.

 

Is this show pitting women against each other because the prize is Nick?  Of course, Nick can't be with an evil person, so she has to be redeemed and become boring.  If she becomes evil again (Adalind), Nick gets to drop her.  When she becomes good again (Juliette), Nick can get with her.

 

I'm irritated that Adalind and Juliette seem to revolve around who gets to be Nick's girlfriend.

 

By forgiven, I'm not sure if you mean Nick, the other characters, or the audience. I just meant that Nick has only been with two women. The blandiest bland Juliette, and Adalind, who he didn't get with until she also turned really bland.

 

I'd stated earlier that Nick is not hugely dynamic, so he needs a woman by his side who is much more fiesty and fiery. That's why he and Adalind had tons of chemistry, while he and Juliette had as much chemistry as wet bread.

 

So, what I meant was that Nick the character seems to only have two choices of women, and both of them must have made his life a living hell but be bland when they're with him. So by the time they pair him up with his mother's killer, Juliette will be wallpaper again, as opposed to just being comically ridiculous with the wigs and overdone eye makeup and robotic voice.

 

Sorry for the late response.

 

I don't think that Adalind has been forgiven for what she's done.  The writers want to whitewash her past to make her relationship with Nick acceptable.  Juliette's biest actions have been whitewashed too. 

 

However, my reaction has been that Adalind doesn't get a pass for the same stuff that Juliette has done.  The same thing will happen with Juliette ends up with NIck again.  She'll get a pass if they're end game. 

 

I agree that Nick isn't dynamic, but he needs somebody interesting to play off.   I think that's why biest Adalind of S1 had tons of chemistry with Nick.  Same with the Damonfeur.  Even More is very interesting, so he has a good, fun relationship with Nick. 

 

I am irritated because the writers seem to want two women to be fighting over Nick.  It's the blandest, weakest fight on TV.  Who is the blandest character gets to be Nick's girlfriend.  (Juliette will win in the end.) 

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